[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.00,0:00:02.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Francesca] Just to make sure \Nwe are safe,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:03.20,0:00:06.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can you confirm that police\Nis here to protect all of us?
Dialogue: 0,0:00:07.04,0:00:07.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Crowd cheers]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:07.93,0:00:08.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Good!
Dialogue: 0,0:00:08.95,0:00:11.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Crowd cheers]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:11.46,0:00:14.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wieland] So I have the great\Npleasure of welcoming
Dialogue: 0,0:00:14.02,0:00:15.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Francesca Albanese
Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.94,0:00:19.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Crowd cheers]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.62,0:00:22.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,United Nations Special Rapporteur
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.34,0:00:25.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for Human Rights in the \NOccupied Palestinian territories.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:27.65,0:00:30.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Before I hand over to\NFrancesca for some preliminary
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.00,0:00:34.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,remarks I would just like to\Ninform everyone that
Dialogue: 0,0:00:34.70,0:00:36.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the last update
Dialogue: 0,0:00:37.36,0:00:42.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I received, we had 1 ,700 \Npeople viewing the live stream.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.31,0:00:47.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Crowd cheers]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.70,0:00:52.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this this may be a small\Nroom, but the virtual space
Dialogue: 0,0:00:52.66,0:00:54.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we are occupying\Nis a large one.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:54.76,0:00:56.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So without further ado,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:56.88,0:00:59.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Francesca please speak to us.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:59.91,0:01:03.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Crowd cheers]
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.74,0:01:06.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Francesca] You're not police, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:06.09,0:01:08.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Crowd laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:01:08.76,0:01:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Camouflaging okay.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:14.00,0:01:19.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I have to admit that about 75
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.26,0:01:25.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hours in this country have\Nmade me pretty nervous.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:26.62,0:01:30.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can't wait to go back to\Npeaceful Tunisia
Dialogue: 0,0:01:31.08,0:01:35.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Crowd cheers]
Dialogue: 0,0:01:35.23,0:01:36.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the situation is bad
Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.94,0:01:39.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for freedom\Nof expression pretty much
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.91,0:01:45.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everywhere and still I've\Nnever felt this sense of
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.67,0:01:48.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lacking oxygen as I do here.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:48.79,0:01:52.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So please, please, I know\Nthey're very happy to see me.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:53.39,0:01:55.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Make sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:56.94,0:02:00.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, but I'm someone who speaks
Dialogue: 0,0:02:00.51,0:02:04.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of genocide and there is a\Ngenocide ongoing
Dialogue: 0,0:02:04.14,0:02:08.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and doesn't matter how much\Ngenocide denialism there is,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:08.69,0:02:11.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we need to be really\Naware, aware of
Dialogue: 0,0:02:11.95,0:02:14.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what we need to do all\Ntogether because I really want
Dialogue: 0,0:02:14.47,0:02:18.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be heard loud and clear\Nbefore we start talking about
Dialogue: 0,0:02:18.25,0:02:23.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what I came to know the most,\Ngenocide, this year.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:24.01,0:02:28.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to say a few things on which I\Nabsolutely don't want to be
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.46,0:02:31.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,taken wrong and misquoted,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:31.95,0:02:33.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but of course I\Nwill be misquoted!
Dialogue: 0,0:02:33.95,0:02:37.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it is a great pleasure for\Nme to be with you today
Dialogue: 0,0:02:37.79,0:02:41.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I wish to thank DiEM, A Jewish\NVoice for a Just Peace in the
Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.67,0:02:44.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Middle East, Eye on Palestine\Nand Gaza Committee
Dialogue: 0,0:02:45.07,0:02:47.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for their immense work,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:47.64,0:02:50.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Crowd cheers]
Dialogue: 0,0:02:51.06,0:02:51.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Stop it!
Dialogue: 0,0:02:52.12,0:02:53.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Crowd laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.90,0:02:55.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for their immense work
Dialogue: 0,0:02:55.10,0:02:56.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in bringing this \Nmeeting together
Dialogue: 0,0:02:56.67,0:02:58.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and for inviting me\Nto be here in Berlin.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.73,0:03:01.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm sure you have the\Ngratitude of so many for
Dialogue: 0,0:03:01.35,0:03:04.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,creating this platform for\Nmany to come together to speak
Dialogue: 0,0:03:04.81,0:03:07.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on one of the most urgent\Nissues of our time.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:08.23,0:03:10.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Without your courage and\Ndedication, we would not be
Dialogue: 0,0:03:10.85,0:03:15.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here today, although, although,\Nfor the venue we must thank
Dialogue: 0,0:03:15.31,0:03:19.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Junge Welt who has given the\Nevent last-minute asylum
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.83,0:03:20.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and of course,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:20.95,0:03:23.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Crowd cheers]
Dialogue: 0,0:03:23.99,0:03:25.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You are unruly!
Dialogue: 0,0:03:26.07,0:03:28.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and of course,\Nwe have to also
Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.16,0:03:31.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,acknowledge the Israeli\Nambassador, pro-Israel
Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.70,0:03:34.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,groups and professional\Nsmearers in Germany,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:35.02,0:03:38.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a number of German politicians\Nincluding the city mayor,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:38.46,0:03:42.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Berlin police without whose\Nrelentless work and pressure and
Dialogue: 0,0:03:42.34,0:03:46.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intimidation we would be in\Nanother, much bigger venue.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:46.78,0:03:48.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know how you feel.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:48.96,0:03:52.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I feel it, too, somewhat, even\Nthough the intimidation has
Dialogue: 0,0:03:52.56,0:03:55.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gotten on my nerves, but\Nnot yet under my skin.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.32,0:03:59.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And with German authorities'\Npermission, I plan to return,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.68,0:04:03.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as I said, to the safety\Nof my home in Tunisia
Dialogue: 0,0:04:03.50,0:04:05.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,before this changes.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:06.20,0:04:08.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We should not fear words.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.43,0:04:10.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We shall fear crimes.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:10.87,0:04:15.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those that commit them,\Nand those who deny them.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:16.17,0:04:19.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And as we proceed, I must\Nacknowledge that some of
Dialogue: 0,0:04:19.07,0:04:21.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the words I will speak\Ntoday might be heavy.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:22.09,0:04:25.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I recognise that many of you\Ncarry significant pain,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:25.78,0:04:28.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it is with this awareness that\NI ask for your patience and
Dialogue: 0,0:04:28.71,0:04:32.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understanding as we explore\Nthese difficult subjects.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:33.17,0:04:36.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Please know that my intention\Nis not to add to that pain,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:36.47,0:04:39.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but to bring light, healing, and\Nperhaps a sense of solidarity
Dialogue: 0,0:04:39.77,0:04:41.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as we move forward together.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.47,0:04:45.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As you are all aware,\Nmy presence in Germany
Dialogue: 0,0:04:45.41,0:04:49.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these few days has been\Ncontroversial for many.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:50.07,0:04:54.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Universities, the beacon of\Nfree speech, the cradle of
Dialogue: 0,0:04:54.45,0:04:58.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,free debate, where people\Ncan also disagree, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:58.05,0:05:01.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have cancelled events where I\Nwas supposed to give talks or
Dialogue: 0,0:05:01.81,0:05:05.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lectures without any warning,\Nlet alone an apology.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:06.19,0:05:07.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's rude.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:07.85,0:05:11.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The organisers in many cases\Nhave had to switch venues
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.43,0:05:15.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the last minute, facing\Nthreats, condemnation and
Dialogue: 0,0:05:15.03,0:05:19.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,harassment on the street\Nand online, hopefully not on site
Dialogue: 0,0:05:19.90,0:05:24.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as if I were someone\Nadvocating for hate or someone
Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.17,0:05:28.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wanted by the International\NCriminal Court for war crimes
Dialogue: 0,0:05:28.53,0:05:30.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and crimes against humanity.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:30.69,0:05:33.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Instead, I'm just a legal\Nexpert appointed by the
Dialogue: 0,0:05:33.79,0:05:36.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,United Nations to document\Nand report on the violations
Dialogue: 0,0:05:36.38,0:05:37.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,committed by Israel.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.95,0:05:42.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is what the resolution\Ncreating my mandate says,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.27,0:05:45.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even if I also document the\Nviolations committed by Hamas
Dialogue: 0,0:05:45.93,0:05:48.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the Palestinian Authority.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:49.17,0:05:52.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm the eighth special\Nrapporteur to do this after
Dialogue: 0,0:05:52.23,0:05:56.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,illustrious jurists such as\NJohn Duggar, Richard Folk, and
Dialogue: 0,0:05:56.25,0:05:59.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Michael Link, and the first\Nwoman to serve in this
Dialogue: 0,0:05:59.81,0:06:02.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,position after 33 years.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:02.43,0:06:03.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is in this capacity...
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.79,0:06:05.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is where you applaud.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.90,0:06:11.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Audience laughs and applauds.]
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.78,0:06:15.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I really want to chill a\Nlittle bit because it's heavy.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:16.00,0:06:18.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is in this capacity\Nthat I came to Berlin.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.08,0:06:19.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I arrived here.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.98,0:06:22.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is something I'm saying\Njust to remind everyone that
Dialogue: 0,0:06:22.76,0:06:25.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I came as a special rapporteur,\Nstill representing
Dialogue: 0,0:06:25.26,0:06:28.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the United Nations, if there\Nis an inch of respect
Dialogue: 0,0:06:28.02,0:06:30.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for this institution that\Nis left in this country.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:30.85,0:06:34.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I arrived here after traveling\Nacross Northern Europe and
Dialogue: 0,0:06:34.06,0:06:37.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being generally welcomed,\Neven where pro-Israel groups
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.56,0:06:40.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,succeeded to have some cave\Nin to their pressure and
Dialogue: 0,0:06:40.88,0:06:42.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mafia-style techniques.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:43.54,0:06:46.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'm shocked to see how\Nabsurd the world that we
Dialogue: 0,0:06:46.68,0:06:49.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,live in has become, where\Nimpartiality to the facts
Dialogue: 0,0:06:49.28,0:06:51.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the requirements of\Ninternational law generate
Dialogue: 0,0:06:51.64,0:06:54.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more controversy than\Nthe killing, maiming,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:54.78,0:06:58.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,torturing, raping,\Nstarving, burning alive,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:58.04,0:06:59.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and entire people as such
Dialogue: 0,0:06:59.58,0:07:02.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for 16 months and counting,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:02.30,0:07:05.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and yet, this is the world we live in.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:05.58,0:07:09.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But so, before getting\Ninto the debate,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:09.04,0:07:11.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what is impartiality and\Nwhat does it mean?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:11.62,0:07:13.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is it not?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.29,0:07:15.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because this is something\Nthat I would like you to carry
Dialogue: 0,0:07:16.09,0:07:20.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with you after this\Nwonderful afternoon together.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.36,0:07:25.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Impartiality for human rights\Ndefenders, investigators and
Dialogue: 0,0:07:25.40,0:07:28.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,monitors like myself entails\Nan obligation to investigate
Dialogue: 0,0:07:28.34,0:07:31.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and establish the facts\Nobjectively,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:31.17,0:07:35.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,studying everything that is brought\Nto our knowledge against
Dialogue: 0,0:07:35.42,0:07:37.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,applicable international law.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.54,0:07:41.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once the assessment is\Ndone, my job is not to be
Dialogue: 0,0:07:41.12,0:07:44.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,equidistant from the parties,\Nwhatever it is,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:44.15,0:07:48.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but to insist on measures to restore\Nlegality, to undo injustice
Dialogue: 0,0:07:48.50,0:07:50.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and prevent further abuses.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:50.98,0:07:54.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the case of Palestine, it\Nis overwhelmingly documented
Dialogue: 0,0:07:54.36,0:07:56.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that Israel commits\Nintentionally, and as a matter
Dialogue: 0,0:07:56.80,0:07:59.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of state policy, the gravest\Nhuman rights offenses,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:59.79,0:08:03.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as part of its long-standing\Nplan to maintain control over
Dialogue: 0,0:08:03.68,0:08:10.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what Israeli human rights\Norganisation B'Tselem has
Dialogue: 0,0:08:10.02,0:08:14.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,called, quote: 'A regime of \NJewish supremacy
Dialogue: 0,0:08:14.58,0:08:17.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the Jordan River to\Nthe Mediterranean Sea.'
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.77,0:08:21.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Crowd laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:08:21.58,0:08:23.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Full stop, end of quote.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:25.85,0:08:28.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Impartiality cannot be\Nused as a pompous name
Dialogue: 0,0:08:28.36,0:08:31.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for indifference and an\Nelegant name for ignorance.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:31.46,0:08:34.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Impartiality is not about\Nmaintaining the pretense of
Dialogue: 0,0:08:34.18,0:08:37.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,both sides in the face of\Ninternational atrocities,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:37.06,0:08:39.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of maintaining, as I was saying,\Nan equidistant position
Dialogue: 0,0:08:39.70,0:08:44.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between conflicting parties,\Neven when their positions
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.14,0:08:46.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are structurally and\Nhistorically unequal.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:46.98,0:08:50.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When one side occupies,\Ndepredates, and oppresses,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:50.90,0:08:54.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the other is being occupied,\Ndepredated, and dispossessed,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:54.38,0:08:56.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is a recipe for\Ndisaster and violence.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:57.00,0:08:59.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,impartiality is\Nnot neutrality.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:00.08,0:09:03.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Neutrality meaning maintaining\Nan equidistant position
Dialogue: 0,0:09:03.64,0:09:06.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between conflicting parties\Neven when their positions
Dialogue: 0,0:09:06.62,0:09:10.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,might not be equal and usually\Nto deliver life-saving aid.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:11.22,0:09:14.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not my mandate and not\Neven that of universities
Dialogue: 0,0:09:14.24,0:09:16.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not even that\Nof your politicians.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:16.60,0:09:20.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our job is not to stay\Nneutral, our job is to stay
Dialogue: 0,0:09:20.74,0:09:23.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,truthful to international law.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:23.54,0:09:25.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is what all of\Nus have in common.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:26.97,0:09:30.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I stand firmly on\Nuniversal human rights
Dialogue: 0,0:09:30.29,0:09:32.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of respect for life\Nand human dignity.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:33.05,0:09:35.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And whenever it is the case\Nthat a state is being allowed
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.85,0:09:39.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with impunity to violate these\Nrights, I must speak up, firmly,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:39.71,0:09:41.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the side of the oppressed.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:41.55,0:09:45.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If those who found my\Npresence tonight controversial
Dialogue: 0,0:09:45.41,0:09:48.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could understand this basic\Nprinciple, the difference
Dialogue: 0,0:09:48.49,0:09:51.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between impartiality and\Nneutrality, perhaps there
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.29,0:09:53.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be far less controversy\Nin the first place,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:53.71,0:09:56.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and of course, there should be\Nunderstanding and condemnation
Dialogue: 0,0:09:56.64,0:09:58.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for what has happened to\NIsraeli civilians during
Dialogue: 0,0:09:58.93,0:10:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the brutal attack that
Dialogue: 0,0:10:00.00,0:10:02.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hamas and other Palestinian\Narmed groups carried out on
Dialogue: 0,0:10:02.60,0:10:06.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,October 7, 2023, as there\Nshould be understanding
Dialogue: 0,0:10:06.43,0:10:08.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and condemnation for\Nthe massacres, violence,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:08.81,0:10:11.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and oppression that the\NPalestinians have experienced
Dialogue: 0,0:10:11.51,0:10:14.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,since the Nakba \Nand before the Nakba,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:14.83,0:10:18.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,resistance and opposition to\Nwhich has certainly
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.41,0:10:19.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not spared the Israelis.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:20.17,0:10:23.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But here we are in an era\Nwhere speaking out on human
Dialogue: 0,0:10:23.03,0:10:26.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rights has become a hateful\Nact or even a crime where
Dialogue: 0,0:10:26.21,0:10:30.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,truth is a lie and lies the\Ntruth that is used to justify this.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:30.54,0:10:33.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, I don't see\Nanyone but I was prepared
Dialogue: 0,0:10:33.57,0:10:35.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to see more police.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:35.75,0:10:40.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Orwell's famous proclamation that:\N'War is peace, freedom is slavery,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:40.27,0:10:42.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ignorance is strength'\Nand that quote has never
Dialogue: 0,0:10:42.52,0:10:44.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been more true than in\Nthe discourse surrounding
Dialogue: 0,0:10:44.77,0:10:46.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Israel and Palestine.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:46.47,0:10:50.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This brings me to the elephant\Nin the room, the genocide that
Dialogue: 0,0:10:50.77,0:10:53.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Israel has been allowed to\Ncommit after 56 years of
Dialogue: 0,0:10:53.95,0:10:56.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unlawful occupation of\NPalestine and 77 years since
Dialogue: 0,0:10:56.95,0:11:01.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the mass ethnic cleansing\Nof the Nakba began.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.70,0:11:04.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,An event that was in ways\Nirrefamiliar in the present
Dialogue: 0,0:11:04.72,0:11:07.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,day carried out amid\Nmassacres and destructions
Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.28,0:11:11.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that have been recounted by\Nits victims, Nakba survivors,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.18,0:11:13.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but also recorded in\Nthe testimonies of its
Dialogue: 0,0:11:13.78,0:11:16.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,perpetrators in some instances\Nor documented in Israeli
Dialogue: 0,0:11:16.88,0:11:19.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,archives and brought to\Nlight by diligent and
Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.92,0:11:24.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,honest Israeli historians, an\Narchitect who were able to
Dialogue: 0,0:11:24.80,0:11:27.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,access those archives for\Na brief period of time
Dialogue: 0,0:11:27.50,0:11:28.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some 30 years ago.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:28.77,0:11:30.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For even the most\Nsophisticated and experienced
Dialogue: 0,0:11:30.97,0:11:33.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,practitioners of doublespeak,\Nthis truth is no longer
Dialogue: 0,0:11:33.80,0:11:34.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,possible to deny.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:34.94,0:11:38.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just want to point to one\Nthing and then we move into
Dialogue: 0,0:11:38.28,0:11:39.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the discussion regarding,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:40.19,0:11:43.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, the topic \Nof today, genocide.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:43.94,0:11:47.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In July 2024, the\NInternational Court of Justice
Dialogue: 0,0:11:47.50,0:11:50.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has recognised beyond any\Nreasonable doubt that
Dialogue: 0,0:11:50.82,0:11:53.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the occupation that Israel\Nmaintained in Gaza,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:53.44,0:11:55.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the West Bank, and East Jerusalem\Nis unlawful
Dialogue: 0,0:11:56.10,0:11:59.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and must be relinquished totally\Nand unconditionally.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:59.52,0:12:01.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The troops, the military\Nbarracks, the military
Dialogue: 0,0:12:01.86,0:12:03.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,presence, but also\Nthe civilian presence,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:03.92,0:12:06.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all the settlements\Nmust be dismantled.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:06.66,0:12:09.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which doesn't mean that\Nthere will be an uprooting
Dialogue: 0,0:12:09.64,0:12:14.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of all Jewish people living\Nin the occupied Palestinian
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.56,0:12:17.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,territory, but the land is to\Nbe returned to their owners.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:17.54,0:12:20.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and perhaps the Jewish\NIsraelis who are there may
Dialogue: 0,0:12:20.48,0:12:23.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,want to rent instead of\Nstealing and living as
Dialogue: 0,0:12:23.34,0:12:26.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Palestinians if there\Nis a Palestinian state.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:26.65,0:12:29.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Crowd cheers]
Dialogue: 0,0:12:30.06,0:12:31.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is not even new.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.26,0:12:33.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is not even new.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:34.38,0:12:37.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everyone knew that the\Noccupation was unlawful and
Dialogue: 0,0:12:37.36,0:12:40.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not just for violations of\Ninternational law here and
Dialogue: 0,0:12:40.18,0:12:43.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there, because Israel kidnapped\Nchildren and adults including
Dialogue: 0,0:12:43.90,0:12:46.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the middle of the night\Nand and put them in jail
Dialogue: 0,0:12:46.38,0:12:51.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for days, weeks, months, and\Nyears until they confessed
Dialogue: 0,0:12:51.96,0:12:53.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,crimes that they had not committed.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:54.92,0:12:58.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And not just because of\Ntorturing, demolishing homes,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:58.86,0:13:02.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,killing people arbitrarily,\Nno, not because of that.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:02.32,0:13:06.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The occupation is unlawful\Nbecause by its very presence
Dialogue: 0,0:13:06.10,0:13:08.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it prevents the \NPalestinians from enjoying
Dialogue: 0,0:13:08.17,0:13:11.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the right of self-determination, \Nthe right to exist as a people,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:11.83,0:13:16.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,free to determine themselves as a\Npeople, which is still being contested
Dialogue: 0,0:13:16.38,0:13:19.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it shouldn't be confused\Nwith a two-state solution.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:20.38,0:13:24.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because this is the political\Nconsensus that has formed
Dialogue: 0,0:13:24.06,0:13:27.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that the Palestinians have the\Nright, exclusive rights
Dialogue: 0,0:13:27.83,0:13:31.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to a state, independent state\Nin the land that remains.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:31.52,0:13:35.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But nonetheless, any other\Nrights lose meanings and
Dialogue: 0,0:13:36.00,0:13:38.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,becomes an exercise of\Nintellectual rhetoric
Dialogue: 0,0:13:38.18,0:13:40.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without the right of\Nself-determination.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.17,0:13:42.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So in the face of this\Ngroundbreaking advisory
Dialogue: 0,0:13:42.92,0:13:45.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,opinion which has confirmed\Nwhat everyone knew,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:45.54,0:13:48.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is the obligation not only of the\NGerman government,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.22,0:13:51.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but every German person, \Nincluding those having businesses,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:51.78,0:13:55.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,living in the settlements, \Nworking as soldiers in the Israeli
Dialogue: 0,0:13:55.38,0:13:58.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,occupation forces, \Nnot to do that anymore.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:58.76,0:14:01.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Otherwise, they might\Nface consequences.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:01.66,0:14:03.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is where\Nwe are today.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:03.26,0:14:06.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Instead of working on this\Nand seeing how to abide by
Dialogue: 0,0:14:06.82,0:14:11.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this incredibly important\Nadvisory opinion,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:11.12,0:14:14.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the government of this country\Ncontinues to repress
Dialogue: 0,0:14:14.36,0:14:17.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the critical voices that\Nask for accountability.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:19.88,0:14:31.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Applause]
Dialogue: 0,0:14:31.62,0:14:34.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wieland] Thank you very much for\Nthose preliminary remarks.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:35.20,0:14:37.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No doubt we'll get\Nback to some of those
Dialogue: 0,0:14:37.20,0:14:39.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,points again later.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:39.59,0:14:44.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what I wanted to ask you\Nabout, and well, this is the
Dialogue: 0,0:14:44.40,0:14:47.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,title of this part of the\Nprogram:
Dialogue: 0,0:14:47.62,0:14:51.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,International Law in the \NFace of the Gaza Genocide.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:51.88,0:14:55.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And something that's often\Nbeen spoken about over the
Dialogue: 0,0:14:55.14,0:15:00.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,last 16 months by yourself and\Nby many actors of all sorts,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:00.86,0:15:05.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,legal experts, civil society\Nfigures, activists,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:06.98,0:15:11.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that the very concept of\Ninternational law has been
Dialogue: 0,0:15:11.72,0:15:16.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,under attack because the\Ngenocide has been allowed to
Dialogue: 0,0:15:16.48,0:15:19.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,take place and measures that
Dialogue: 0,0:15:19.48,0:15:25.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have been set in motion\Nto stop it have also not
Dialogue: 0,0:15:25.12,0:15:26.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,achieved that result.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:26.50,0:15:30.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The world has let it\Nhappen and many feel that
Dialogue: 0,0:15:30.42,0:15:39.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,international law has become\Nimpotent and even though in
Dialogue: 0,0:15:39.63,0:15:44.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the decades since the United\NNations were founded and
Dialogue: 0,0:15:44.79,0:15:47.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we had the establishment\Nof the Geneva Conventions
Dialogue: 0,0:15:47.41,0:15:50.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the various pillars of\Ninternational law were built up,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:50.19,0:15:52.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of course this is not\Nthe first time
Dialogue: 0,0:15:52.38,0:15:55.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that a power\Nallied with the so-called West
Dialogue: 0,0:15:55.73,0:16:00.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has chosen not to abide by\Ninternational law and recent
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.36,0:16:03.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,decades have seen many other\Ncases, the invasion of Iraq,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:03.03,0:16:04.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Afghanistan, Libya, etc.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:04.79,0:16:08.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, how is the situation\Ndifferent now?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:09.79,0:16:13.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What additional or greater\Ndamage has been done to
Dialogue: 0,0:16:13.79,0:16:17.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,international law and how\Ndoes one continue to work with
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.35,0:16:22.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the standard of international\Nlaw from now on?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:23.59,0:16:27.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Francesca] First of all, let me clarify\Na couple of things and then we
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.99,0:16:30.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will have the opportunity to\Ntalk about what constitutes
Dialogue: 0,0:16:30.62,0:16:32.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,genocide because\Nthere seems to be much
Dialogue: 0,0:16:32.67,0:16:34.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,confusion in this country.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:34.31,0:16:38.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So should I say that now or\Ncan we get back to this later?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:38.15,0:16:40.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wieland] I think we can \Nget back to it later.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:40.38,0:16:42.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Francesca] Perfect, as long\Nas you say that.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:43.23,0:16:47.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, international law\Nis a set of norms
Dialogue: 0,0:16:47.30,0:16:49.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that member states have agreed upon,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:49.28,0:16:52.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,either through treaties
Dialogue: 0,0:16:52.29,0:16:55.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or that they have developed\Nas customs, as practice,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:55.95,0:16:59.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,believed to be compliant\Nwith general principles
Dialogue: 0,0:16:59.87,0:17:01.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of law and humanity.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:02.07,0:17:05.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what constitutes\Ninternational law
Dialogue: 0,0:17:05.86,0:17:11.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a normative framework intended\Nto prevent violations
Dialogue: 0,0:17:11.68,0:17:13.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to correct violations.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:13.23,0:17:15.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's a normative and\Nremedial, it has a normative
Dialogue: 0,0:17:15.89,0:17:17.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and remedial function.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:18.92,0:17:24.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Aside of it but complementary\Nis the system that is there to
Dialogue: 0,0:17:24.36,0:17:29.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,regulate the conduct of states\Nand so it's the multilateral
Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.12,0:17:35.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,order which is to be regulated\Nby international norms.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:35.72,0:17:40.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So while international law has\Nbeen selectively applied,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:40.86,0:17:49.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more or less systemically violated,\Ntoday we see the depth of it
Dialogue: 0,0:17:49.64,0:17:52.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we see the system\Nbehind it, I believe.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:52.50,0:17:56.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the sense that it's clear\Nthat the system has never,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:56.60,0:17:59.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, the multilateral order,\Nthe General Assembly,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:59.56,0:18:03.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is now more democratic than\Nit was 77 years ago, for example.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:04.44,0:18:07.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When the United Nations system\Nwas created, it was made
Dialogue: 0,0:18:07.50,0:18:14.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of about 50, 53 states, and\Nnow it's made of 193 states.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:14.60,0:18:16.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So clearly, it has changed.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:16.44,0:18:20.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the center of power,\Nit has not changed.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:20.66,0:18:27.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The system that was birthed\Nas dominated by the colonial world
Dialogue: 0,0:18:27.99,0:18:30.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like Europe and\NEuropean offsprings,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:31.12,0:18:37.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like Australia, New Zealand, the\NUnited States and Canada,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:37.32,0:18:40.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and of course, the first colonies,\Nthe first settler colonial
Dialogue: 0,0:18:40.82,0:18:44.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,realities where so many\Ngenocides had been committed,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:44.08,0:18:47.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Latin America, Central\Nand Latin America, sorry,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:47.50,0:18:48.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Latin America.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:48.76,0:18:51.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, these were also\Npart of the system,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:51.98,0:18:54.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the center of power\Nwas with the West,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:54.20,0:18:57.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what we would call today improperly: \NWest, and remains there.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:57.42,0:19:02.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I think that the phase\Nwe live in has exposed how
Dialogue: 0,0:19:02.65,0:19:09.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unequal the system is,\Nhow it cannot serve as is the
Dialogue: 0,0:19:09.73,0:19:13.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interest of everyone in\Nthe face of a
Dialogue: 0,0:19:16.22,0:19:23.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fundamentally now a unipolar order, \Nwhere the United States dictates
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.96,0:19:27.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pretty much what is to\Nbe done and what's not,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:27.76,0:19:31.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,regardless or even blatantly\Nagainst international law.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:31.52,0:19:34.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we are at a critical point,\Nand the system is breaking.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:34.84,0:19:40.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When we international human \Nrights experts have said for years,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:40.24,0:19:42.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,especially this mandate,\Nit's 20 years that
Dialogue: 0,0:19:42.72,0:19:45.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whomever has held this mandate\Nhas said over and over,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:45.76,0:19:46.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the system is breaking.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.11,0:19:49.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Occupied Palestinian\NTerritory is a powder keg
Dialogue: 0,0:19:49.78,0:19:52.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it will explode and will take\Nall the system with it because
Dialogue: 0,0:19:52.84,0:19:55.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's a settler colonial\Nfrontier, more violent
Dialogue: 0,0:19:55.98,0:19:56.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than any other.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:56.92,0:20:00.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not the only form of\Ncolonial domination,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:00.74,0:20:06.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's an active settler colony \Nwhere people are really struggling
Dialogue: 0,0:20:06.32,0:20:09.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for what settler colonialism\Nis in its more brutal form.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:09.88,0:20:13.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One people taking control\Nof land, of resources,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:13.62,0:20:14.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pushing other people out.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:14.96,0:20:19.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again, and it's the only one\Nactively, actively militarily,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:19.68,0:20:22.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,politically, financially\Nsupported and enabled
Dialogue: 0,0:20:23.12,0:20:24.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by Western countries.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:24.79,0:20:30.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is the breaking point\Nbecause there are many people
Dialogue: 0,0:20:30.11,0:20:32.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who identify themselves\Nwith injustice that the
Dialogue: 0,0:20:32.67,0:20:34.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Palestinians have suffered.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:35.03,0:20:37.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are many people who\Nfor the first time realise
Dialogue: 0,0:20:37.47,0:20:41.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there is a global\Nawareness about this
Dialogue: 0,0:20:41.85,0:20:44.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and dissatisfaction.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:44.43,0:20:48.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We see in the fragility and\Nhow lonely the Palestinians
Dialogue: 0,0:20:48.47,0:20:54.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are in the face of all these\Npowers, our own fragility,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:54.81,0:20:57.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this is why so many\Nstand in solidarity
Dialogue: 0,0:20:57.63,0:20:59.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the Palestinians.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:59.17,0:21:01.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On top of the fact that it's a\Nsimple empathy,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:01.37,0:21:04.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the fact that what happens to other \Nhuman beings touches us and doesn't
Dialogue: 0,0:21:04.82,0:21:07.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean the fact of seeing\Nbodies of children
Dialogue: 0,0:21:07.99,0:21:12.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hanging from the wall\Nor turned into smithereens
Dialogue: 0,0:21:12.99,0:21:15.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whatever they are, incinerated\Nin refugee camps
Dialogue: 0,0:21:15.91,0:21:19.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or in tents, plastic tents if not\Nburied under the rubble.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:19.91,0:21:23.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean this is something that doesn't\Nmake many people sleep at night
Dialogue: 0,0:21:23.86,0:21:26.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's normal, it's a\Ngood sign, it's healthy
Dialogue: 0,0:21:27.13,0:21:32.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we shouldn't become idle\Nin the face of this pain.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:32.22,0:21:33.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, so we need to decide.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:33.97,0:21:36.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now it's the time, we\Nare at the turning point
Dialogue: 0,0:21:36.61,0:21:37.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we need to decide.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:37.73,0:21:41.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The system, of course,\Nwill become uglier and more
Dialogue: 0,0:21:41.17,0:21:43.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,resistant and more fierceful,\Nbut because the system
Dialogue: 0,0:21:43.85,0:21:45.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is being challenged.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:45.43,0:21:50.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The system of which Israel's\Nabuses are a symptom.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:51.17,0:21:53.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And not, yeah, are a symptom.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:54.85,0:21:58.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this should be a wake\Nup call for all of us
Dialogue: 0,0:21:58.61,0:22:00.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people of conscience.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:00.91,0:22:04.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I often say a bit rhetorically\Nbut I somewhat believe it.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:04.69,0:22:08.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean in the sense it's not\Nthe case that the UN Charter
Dialogue: 0,0:22:08.41,0:22:11.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not just about states'\Nobligations but it says:
Dialogue: 0,0:22:11.99,0:22:15.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,'we the people' because ultimately,\Nit's we the people who
Dialogue: 0,0:22:15.05,0:22:18.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are the guardians of\Nthese values, these norms.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:18.22,0:22:20.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Human rights, I mean, I know\Nthat people complain a lot
Dialogue: 0,0:22:20.91,0:22:23.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about international law:\N'It serves no purpose.'
Dialogue: 0,0:22:23.53,0:22:25.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, because you are\Nnot the ones who had to
Dialogue: 0,0:22:25.69,0:22:27.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,struggle to abolish slavery.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:27.57,0:22:30.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You're not the ones who had\Nto struggle to have women's
Dialogue: 0,0:22:30.17,0:22:32.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rights recognised, even\Nif I admit we still have
Dialogue: 0,0:22:32.79,0:22:33.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of work to do.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:34.03,0:22:38.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But so, there have been so many\Nstruggles that have led to
Dialogue: 0,0:22:38.93,0:22:42.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the development of human\Nrights the way they are.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:42.17,0:22:46.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So while we tend to see\Nhuman rights as a tool of
Dialogue: 0,0:22:46.73,0:22:49.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,emancipation and that it's\Nfailing, I want to also
Dialogue: 0,0:22:49.63,0:22:53.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,remind you, if you take a step\Nback and look at the arc of history
Dialogue: 0,0:22:53.36,0:22:56.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that these human\Nrights are first and foremost
Dialogue: 0,0:22:56.69,0:23:00.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the result of someone else's \Nstruggle for emancipation.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:00.27,0:23:04.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we have grown just too\Nlazy in this part of the world
Dialogue: 0,0:23:04.49,0:23:07.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you see the Palestinians, \Nlike many other people,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:07.25,0:23:09.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they don't even have \Nthe time to think:
Dialogue: 0,0:23:09.11,0:23:10.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,shall I fight or not?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:10.91,0:23:12.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fight peacefully.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:12.69,0:23:15.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, because many\Npeople have no choice.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:15.03,0:23:17.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you have the choice,\Nit means that you have
Dialogue: 0,0:23:17.73,0:23:20.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,privilege, that you\Nhave chosen not to use.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:20.49,0:23:22.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's your choice,\Nbut trust me,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:22.36,0:23:24.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everything is in line right now.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:24.09,0:23:24.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's coming.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:24.79,0:23:29.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The way repression works\Nin this country is scary,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:30.21,0:23:33.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should really, should scare\Nthe hell out of people.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:33.84,0:23:35.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the fact that you don't...
Dialogue: 0,0:23:35.63,0:23:36.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:37.32,0:23:38.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Inaudible]
Dialogue: 0,0:23:38.65,0:23:41.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Audience claps]
Dialogue: 0,0:23:41.33,0:23:45.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, and the fact that\Npeople don't register
Dialogue: 0,0:23:45.35,0:23:46.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how serious it is.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:46.69,0:23:52.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The fact that media continue\Nto be as pathetic as they are.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:52.81,0:23:55.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again, it's something that,\NI don't know,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:55.33,0:23:58.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll try to help by continuing to\Ntell what I've seen here.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:58.57,0:24:02.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But again, I've been in many\Ncountries, including countries
Dialogue: 0,0:24:02.43,0:24:05.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are lectured by Germany\Nabout freedom of
Dialogue: 0,0:24:05.99,0:24:07.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- freedom of oppression -
Dialogue: 0,0:24:07.81,0:24:11.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Audience laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:24:11.46,0:24:12.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sorry.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:12.20,0:24:13.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Weiland] Appropriate \Nchoice of word.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:13.96,0:24:15.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Francesca] No, freedom\Nof expression and
Dialogue: 0,0:24:15.93,0:24:16.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Audience laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:24:16.86,0:24:17.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,freedom of...
Dialogue: 0,0:24:17.66,0:24:19.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was not even\Nthe worst that came out,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:20.18,0:24:23.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the worst lapses that came\Nout of my mouth today.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:23.16,0:24:27.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, freedom of expression\Nand freedom of assembly,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:27.20,0:24:30.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, countries that have been\Nlectured by Germany about how
Dialogue: 0,0:24:30.58,0:24:33.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,important these rights are\Nand who are really struggling
Dialogue: 0,0:24:33.80,0:24:35.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to guarantee these rights.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:35.46,0:24:38.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, don't want to guarantee\Nthese rights to citizens,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:38.14,0:24:39.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't even make a\Nmystery out of it.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:39.82,0:24:47.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And still, I've experienced\Nmuch less intimidation
Dialogue: 0,0:24:47.70,0:24:49.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and fear than here.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:49.78,0:24:52.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I again, I'm with you
Dialogue: 0,0:24:52.68,0:24:56.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and yeah, let's brace for\Nwhat happens next.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:57.36,0:25:02.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Appause]
Dialogue: 0,0:25:02.68,0:25:06.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Weiland] What I want to get out a bit\Nbecause I think this is also
Dialogue: 0,0:25:06.26,0:25:08.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something that really many\Npeople in the world have been
Dialogue: 0,0:25:08.98,0:25:13.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,asking themselves or\Nasking other people is:
Dialogue: 0,0:25:15.34,0:25:19.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if international law wasn't\Nable to prevent this genocide,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:20.67,0:25:25.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if there were not the\Nnecessary mechanisms
Dialogue: 0,0:25:25.06,0:25:26.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of enforcement
Dialogue: 0,0:25:26.66,0:25:29.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really to stop the people\Nwho are committing it,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:32.74,0:25:34.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what does it still offer?
Dialogue: 0,0:25:35.34,0:25:37.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Francesca] Yeah,\Nso as I was saying,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:37.23,0:25:39.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there has been a phase where \Nhuman rights protection
Dialogue: 0,0:25:39.99,0:25:42.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of individual rights was not there.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:42.10,0:25:44.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are lucky because\Nwe have those rights.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:44.75,0:25:47.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those rights also allow \Nus to keep some sanity
Dialogue: 0,0:25:47.80,0:25:49.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and saying this is \Ncompletely wrong.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:49.75,0:25:51.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, there are the standards,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:51.34,0:25:53.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are the law \Nenforcement mechanisms
Dialogue: 0,0:25:53.39,0:25:57.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that in many respects have\Nnever worked for Palestine.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:57.91,0:26:01.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Palestine has always been\Nthe big exception
Dialogue: 0,0:26:01.32,0:26:04.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and for a number of reasons.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:04.05,0:26:08.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We don't need to unpack all\Nthe problems of the world now.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:13.01,0:26:14.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wieland] Number 2?
Dialogue: 0,0:26:14.34,0:26:15.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Francesca] No, I'm serious.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:15.81,0:26:25.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the thing is that, when\Ngovernments do not enforce,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:25.19,0:26:30.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do not abide by international\Nlaw, next in line is
Dialogue: 0,0:26:30.53,0:26:34.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like watchdogs that are the\Ncivil society, NGOs are the
Dialogue: 0,0:26:34.83,0:26:37.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,natural watchdogs of what\Nthe government does,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:38.03,0:26:39.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unless there is an ombudsman.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:39.99,0:26:43.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are protection\Nmechanisms at the
Dialogue: 0,0:26:43.81,0:26:44.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,country level.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:45.21,0:26:47.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Otherwise, there is the\Ninternational...
Dialogue: 0,0:26:47.43,0:26:49.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, there are the \Ncourts, tribunals.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:49.81,0:26:52.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, in other countries,\Nthese are working.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:52.47,0:26:55.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These are mechanisms that\Nhave been activated through
Dialogue: 0,0:26:55.45,0:26:58.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,strategic litigation of civil\Nsociety who have sued the
Dialogue: 0,0:26:58.61,0:27:02.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,government for complicity in\Ncrimes and for transferring
Dialogue: 0,0:27:02.63,0:27:03.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,weapons to Israel
Dialogue: 0,0:27:03.87,0:27:05.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the time, it was\Ncommitting genocide.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:05.75,0:27:10.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I hope more and more there\Nneeds to be scrutiny of what
Dialogue: 0,0:27:10.11,0:27:18.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,universities, pension funds,\Nbanks, and any other private actors
Dialogue: 0,0:27:18.62,0:27:22.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who contributes in any\Npossible ways, big or small,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:22.75,0:27:27.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the unlawfulness of\NIsrael's presence
Dialogue: 0,0:27:27.24,0:27:29.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the occupied \NPalestinian territory,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:29.30,0:27:31.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they must be\Nheld accountable.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:31.51,0:27:34.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you know, in a country\Nlike that, that is not easy,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:34.35,0:27:36.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I hear that this\Nis something that has been
Dialogue: 0,0:27:36.89,0:27:40.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tried already and there\Nhas been a bit of pushback.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:41.01,0:27:44.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I hope it's not the case\Nbecause really I had, again
Dialogue: 0,0:27:44.13,0:27:47.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm someone who has grown\Na thinking of Germany as an
Dialogue: 0,0:27:47.03,0:27:49.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,example because of its legal\Nscholars and because of
Dialogue: 0,0:27:49.63,0:27:51.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,its courageous judges.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:51.81,0:27:54.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not in again, studying \NPalestinian refugees
Dialogue: 0,0:27:54.97,0:27:57.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in international\Nlaw writing a book about
Dialogue: 0,0:27:57.81,0:27:59.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Palestinian refugees\Nin international law.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:59.79,0:28:02.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would like to remind that\Nit was German courts which
Dialogue: 0,0:28:02.35,0:28:05.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,allowed to develop the\Njurisprudence that has
Dialogue: 0,0:28:05.35,0:28:08.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,existed on how to protect\NPalestinian refugees
Dialogue: 0,0:28:08.81,0:28:11.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,outside the Middle East.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:11.51,0:28:14.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So even in Germany, it\Nhas never been that bad.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:15.01,0:28:18.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can still go back\Nto a place of sanity.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:18.45,0:28:21.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So courts have to be\Nactivated, but also
Dialogue: 0,0:28:23.29,0:28:28.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,certain struggles are not \Nbrought to court,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:28.75,0:28:32.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cannot not be fought
Dialogue: 0,0:28:32.88,0:28:36.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without the\N- peacefully fought of course -
Dialogue: 0,0:28:36.93,0:28:39.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without the support of \Nthe public opinion.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:40.05,0:28:43.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because eventually judges\Nalso read newspapers.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:43.63,0:28:46.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the problem is if the\Ndebate is so toxic,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:46.66,0:28:50.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if the media's work is primarily\Nnot about telling the facts
Dialogue: 0,0:28:50.09,0:28:52.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let alone the legal\Nqualifications,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:52.73,0:28:59.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but about manufacturing consensus\Nso as to maintain a certain narrative
Dialogue: 0,0:28:59.79,0:29:01.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a certain discourse,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:01.31,0:29:02.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's very complicated.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:03.09,0:29:07.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what is left is there are\Ninternational mechanisms
Dialogue: 0,0:29:08.01,0:29:10.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that scrutinise the \Nperformance of states,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:10.66,0:29:15.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but again, I'm not \Nstarry-eyed on this.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:15.33,0:29:19.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right now, it sounds like\Nan emergency,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:19.23,0:29:23.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in time of emergency, \Nyou don't go into a long-term plan,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:23.69,0:29:24.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you see what I mean.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:24.100,0:29:27.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I do think that most\Nof the work is to be done,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:27.77,0:29:31.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of course, internationally,\Neliciting solidarity from others,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:31.93,0:29:35.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,eliciting scrutiny,\Nbecause there is, again,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:35.53,0:29:38.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there is a sense that in Germany,\Nthings are bad,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:39.73,0:29:44.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but now, I can tell you, if I'm shocked, \Nif I'm that shocked
Dialogue: 0,0:29:45.04,0:29:47.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can tell you, there is no \Nreal understanding
Dialogue: 0,0:29:47.41,0:29:49.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what's going on \Nin this country,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:49.23,0:29:52.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'm afraid that \Nthis will continue to spread.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:53.74,0:29:56.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, yeah, many more people\Nshould talk about that,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:56.83,0:29:59.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,many more people should ask\Nyour government questions
Dialogue: 0,0:29:59.34,0:30:01.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the subsequent\Ngovernment questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:02.18,0:30:06.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's a struggle that\Nneeds to be continued
Dialogue: 0,0:30:06.18,0:30:09.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on a multi-fronts level.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:10.18,0:30:11.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wieland] You said it's about...
Dialogue: 0,0:30:11.86,0:30:14.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Francesca] Just one second, \Nby the way, the ICJ
Dialogue: 0,0:30:14.16,0:30:16.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the ICC, because then\Nit seems that nothing
Dialogue: 0,0:30:16.50,0:30:18.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is happening at the\Ninternational level.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:18.38,0:30:21.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While international justice\Nis very slow, it's moving.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:21.22,0:30:23.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, for the first time,\Nand it would have been
Dialogue: 0,0:30:23.56,0:30:28.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unimaginable years ago, \Nwhere in this country,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:28.54,0:30:31.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like many other, including my country,\Nwas even impossible to say
Dialogue: 0,0:30:31.84,0:30:38.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,apartheid, let alone genocide,\Nand despite the difficulties,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:38.26,0:30:43.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,now, the ICC has indicted two\NIsraeli leaders, one active,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:44.00,0:30:48.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the prime minister, and the other, \Nthe former minister of defense
Dialogue: 0,0:30:48.26,0:30:50.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so they are wanted\Nby the ICC, and hopefully,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:50.52,0:30:52.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that there should\Nbe many more,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:52.42,0:30:55.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the colonisation has been\Nongoing for a long time.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:55.96,0:30:59.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the International Court\Nof Justice is looking at
Dialogue: 0,0:31:00.39,0:31:03.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,genocide in two cases.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:03.26,0:31:05.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Genocide in the Occupied\NPalestinian Territory,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:05.70,0:31:10.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,both in the case initiated by South\NAfrica versus Germany, sorry,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:10.86,0:31:14.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Israel, and, sorry guys,\NI am on two hours sleep,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:14.72,0:31:18.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so be patient, and I was\Nquite sleep-deprived,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:18.94,0:31:21.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Nicaragua versus Germany.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:22.08,0:31:25.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So your country is brought\Nbefore an international
Dialogue: 0,0:31:25.62,0:31:28.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,court of justice because\Nof its support to
Dialogue: 0,0:31:28.54,0:31:30.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the genocide in Gaza.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:30.80,0:31:34.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wieland] You actually just\Nmentioned the ICC warrants,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:34.22,0:31:35.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which I wanted to ask you about.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:37.36,0:31:41.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On January 27th, International\NHolocaust Remembrance Day,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:41.39,0:31:44.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,originally there was a\Nplan for Netanyahu
Dialogue: 0,0:31:44.77,0:31:48.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to go to Auschwitz for a\Ncommemoration celebration.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:50.71,0:31:56.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in the end he didn't, a\Njunior member of government went
Dialogue: 0,0:31:57.96,0:32:01.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there was obviously\Nmuch controversy about it,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:01.39,0:32:05.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the Polish government\Nsaid quite brazenly that
Dialogue: 0,0:32:05.57,0:32:07.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they would allow him to come.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:07.13,0:32:09.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They would not\Nenforce the warrant.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:09.95,0:32:11.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It wasn't put to the test\Nin the end,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:11.92,0:32:14.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that's what they said in front\Nof the whole world.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:14.75,0:32:21.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The other week, the unfortunately\Nmost likely next chancellor
Dialogue: 0,0:32:21.97,0:32:25.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in this country, Friedrich Merz, \Nconservative leader
Dialogue: 0,0:32:26.27,0:32:31.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,said that if there was\Na plan for Netanyahu to come
Dialogue: 0,0:32:31.87,0:32:34.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to Germany, then of course he\Nwould not be arrested,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:35.83,0:32:38.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that these warrants\Nmean nothing.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:39.51,0:32:42.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, of course, one could\Nsay this is all hot air,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:42.66,0:32:45.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but what could be done?
Dialogue: 0,0:32:45.52,0:32:46.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What would happen?
Dialogue: 0,0:32:47.02,0:32:51.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Francesca] Well, you see, without even\Nbothering international law,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:51.24,0:32:56.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is it normal that someone who\Nis not even in function yet
Dialogue: 0,0:32:56.04,0:33:01.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or might have governmental\Nfunction steps into the realm
Dialogue: 0,0:33:01.90,0:33:05.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of competence that belongs\Nto the justice system?
Dialogue: 0,0:33:05.02,0:33:08.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not up to government\Nofficials to say whether
Dialogue: 0,0:33:08.46,0:33:13.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,someone will be arrested\Nor not, based on the
Dialogue: 0,0:33:13.94,0:33:16.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,determination, on an\Ninvestigation that has
Dialogue: 0,0:33:16.42,0:33:19.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been carried out by the\NInternational Criminal Court.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:20.44,0:33:23.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, you see, we are\Ncompletely dismantling
Dialogue: 0,0:33:23.68,0:33:27.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the system that we\Nhave so hardly...
Dialogue: 0,0:33:27.56,0:33:31.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, with so much\Nsacrifice and political
Dialogue: 0,0:33:31.30,0:33:32.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,investment built.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:33.15,0:33:34.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Out of what?
Dialogue: 0,0:33:34.32,0:33:35.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Seriously, out of what?
Dialogue: 0,0:33:35.94,0:33:43.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, this alliance among\Npoliticians who tend
Dialogue: 0,0:33:43.16,0:33:46.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to protect each other\Nwhen one commits crimes
Dialogue: 0,0:33:46.96,0:33:49.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and end up committing\Ncrimes all together.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:50.45,0:33:52.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now I'm getting\Narrested, yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:52.28,0:33:55.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In south of Italy has\Na very specific name.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:56.33,0:33:57.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not going to say that.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:58.51,0:34:01.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But this is not normal.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:01.65,0:34:05.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is non-normal, the\Nintimidation against human
Dialogue: 0,0:34:05.77,0:34:09.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rights defenders, lawyers,\Nscholars, the pressure in
Dialogue: 0,0:34:09.45,0:34:13.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,university in order not\Nto have an honest debate,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:13.19,0:34:18.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,frankly, about 60,000 people\Nplus that have been killed
Dialogue: 0,0:34:21.26,0:34:25.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without, again, without\Ndenying that crimes have been
Dialogue: 0,0:34:25.12,0:34:28.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,committed against Israelis,\Nabsolutely, no one
Dialogue: 0,0:34:28.16,0:34:29.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has ever denied that,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:29.50,0:34:32.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have been condemning crimes\Nagainst civilians because
Dialogue: 0,0:34:32.34,0:34:34.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my red line is that a\Ncivilian is a civilian,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:34.79,0:34:35.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so it's untouchable.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:35.98,0:34:39.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the responsibility of the\Ngovernment and of the states
Dialogue: 0,0:34:39.80,0:34:41.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to respond for crimes.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:41.18,0:34:43.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But here's the responsibility\Nof Germany as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:43.56,0:34:45.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is left to\Nthe Palestinians?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:45.60,0:34:47.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is left to the\NPalestinians not to be
Dialogue: 0,0:34:47.96,0:34:50.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,erased in the little that\Nremains of their land?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:50.88,0:34:52.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The guardians of the\Nself-determination
Dialogue: 0,0:34:52.72,0:34:55.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Palestinians\Nare member states.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:55.52,0:34:56.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Applause]
Dialogue: 0,0:34:57.35,0:35:06.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What has Germany done\Nthroughout 2023 when 12 pogroms,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:06.58,0:35:10.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,according to how they\Nhave been defined by many,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:10.45,0:35:13.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including in Israel, have\Nbeen carried out against
Dialogue: 0,0:35:13.09,0:35:18.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,defenseless Palestinian\Nvillages by violent, armed,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:18.29,0:35:22.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ideological settlers,\Nescorted, as usual,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:22.57,0:35:24.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the Israeli army.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:25.23,0:35:30.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And again, homes and cars and\Nother possessions have been
Dialogue: 0,0:35:30.63,0:35:34.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,incinerated and so orchards,\Nand Palestinians have been
Dialogue: 0,0:35:34.57,0:35:36.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,beaten up and terrorized.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:36.72,0:35:37.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where was Germany?
Dialogue: 0,0:35:37.89,0:35:41.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Germany knows, not because\Nnecessarily your government
Dialogue: 0,0:35:41.15,0:35:43.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has to read the\Nhuman rights reports,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:43.49,0:35:47.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but because it has a diplomatic\Npresence in the
Dialogue: 0,0:35:47.92,0:35:49.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,occupied Palestinian territory.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:49.41,0:35:51.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And everyone knows what's\Ngoing on in the
Dialogue: 0,0:35:51.81,0:35:53.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,occupied Palestinian territory.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:53.29,0:35:56.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And everyone knows the crimes\Nthat Israel has been committed
Dialogue: 0,0:35:56.59,0:35:58.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with impunity for decades.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:58.89,0:36:04.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the Palestinians have been\Npersecuted, abused, oppressed,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:04.33,0:36:09.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,killed, blamed, smeared,\Nand in the face of this we
Dialogue: 0,0:36:09.58,0:36:10.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cannot even talk about that?
Dialogue: 0,0:36:11.78,0:36:13.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, again, this\Nis not my problem.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:13.76,0:36:17.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, thank God that I'm\Nnot that sensitive that
Dialogue: 0,0:36:17.44,0:36:19.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,someone cancels it.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:21.52,0:36:26.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And again, I talk, and I take\Nit personally, I said: As long
Dialogue: 0,0:36:26.76,0:36:30.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as they pay the hotel room\Nfor which they invited me.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:30.57,0:36:31.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's fine.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:32.53,0:36:33.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The problem is yours.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:34.29,0:36:36.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the country you\Nlive in and your fellow
Dialogue: 0,0:36:36.73,0:36:38.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,citizens live in.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:38.29,0:36:40.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, and it's very serious.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:41.47,0:36:42.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wieland] Certainly is.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:43.64,0:36:44.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:44.75,0:36:51.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Applause]
Dialogue: 0,0:36:51.17,0:36:54.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm just looking a bit at\Nthe time and we wanted to
Dialogue: 0,0:36:54.47,0:36:57.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,give a bit of space for\Npeople to ask questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:57.55,0:37:00.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No doubt there'll be many\Nquestions and not every
Dialogue: 0,0:37:00.11,0:37:01.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,question can be taken.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:01.97,0:37:07.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But you said that you also\Nwanted to share some points
Dialogue: 0,0:37:07.43,0:37:08.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about genocide earlier.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:09.13,0:37:11.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Francesca] Yes, very briefly,\Nas much as I can.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:12.49,0:37:17.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because it's very important\Nto remind ourselves of what
Dialogue: 0,0:37:17.49,0:37:22.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,genocide is and what the\Nrisk of genocide triggers.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:22.71,0:37:24.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's very important\Nin this country,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:25.67,0:37:31.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it's genocide\Nis not defined by personal
Dialogue: 0,0:37:31.31,0:37:33.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,opinions and personal\Nhistories no matter how
Dialogue: 0,0:37:33.99,0:37:38.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,painful they are and there is\Nno question, no question that
Dialogue: 0,0:37:39.19,0:37:43.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Germany has a lot to atone\Nfor for the genocides it has committed.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:44.02,0:37:48.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And at the same time,\Ngenocide today,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:48.56,0:37:50.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what constitutes genocide
Dialogue: 0,0:37:50.54,0:37:53.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is written in an international treaty.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:54.13,0:37:57.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What constitutes genocide is\Nacts of killing against the
Dialogue: 0,0:37:57.35,0:38:01.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,members of a group, infliction\Nof severe mental or physical
Dialogue: 0,0:38:01.79,0:38:04.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,harm to members of the group,\Nthe creation of conditions
Dialogue: 0,0:38:04.49,0:38:08.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of life calculated to lead\Nto the physical destruction
Dialogue: 0,0:38:08.47,0:38:15.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of members of the group\Nand prevent, thank you,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:15.33,0:38:17.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,prevention of birth and
Dialogue: 0,0:38:17.59,0:38:19.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the transfer of children.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:19.89,0:38:25.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you see, I hear criticism\Nlike in the UK,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:25.91,0:38:27.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for example, look at the\Nnumbers of killing
Dialogue: 0,0:38:27.98,0:38:30.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as killing 70,000\Npeople was not bad.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:31.47,0:38:34.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again, I often ask myself,\Nwhat kind of monsters
Dialogue: 0,0:38:34.51,0:38:35.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have we become?
Dialogue: 0,0:38:36.03,0:38:41.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But also the brutality of the\Nattack, the way everything has
Dialogue: 0,0:38:41.05,0:38:44.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been destroyed, in a way, as\Nwe will have the chance to talk
Dialogue: 0,0:38:46.37,0:38:49.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a way that has led\Nto conditions calculated to
Dialogue: 0,0:38:49.95,0:38:51.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,destroy the Palestinians.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:51.78,0:38:54.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the thing is that in\Norder to have genocide,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:54.03,0:38:56.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's not sufficient to\Ncommit these crimes.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:56.07,0:38:59.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The crimes have to be\Ncommitted with intent,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:59.61,0:39:04.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the determination to\Ndestroy the group as such.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:05.05,0:39:09.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And people say it's very\Ndifficult to prove intent.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:10.00,0:39:10.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, you know why?
Dialogue: 0,0:39:10.96,0:39:13.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because it's very difficult to\Ncommit, I mean, it's difficult
Dialogue: 0,0:39:13.83,0:39:16.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to prove genocide because it\Nshould be difficult to commit
Dialogue: 0,0:39:16.63,0:39:19.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,genocide in 2024 or in 2025.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:20.98,0:39:23.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It shouldn't be possible\Nbecause in the system,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:23.85,0:39:27.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are some check and balances\Nin a system that calls itself
Dialogue: 0,0:39:27.72,0:39:30.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,democratic where there is\Na rule of law system
Dialogue: 0,0:39:30.88,0:39:32.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the separation of power.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:32.76,0:39:35.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, you might have crazy\Ngovernment officials making
Dialogue: 0,0:39:35.86,0:39:38.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,genocidal incitements and\Nsay: starve them all,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:38.85,0:39:44.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kill them all, they are all\Nanimals, even the kids.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:44.86,0:39:47.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, Germany is not the\Nfirst time where this has
Dialogue: 0,0:39:47.42,0:39:50.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happened because I've read\Nthe Nuremberg Trials Act
Dialogue: 0,0:39:50.60,0:39:53.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and children were seen\Nas a security threat.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:55.67,0:39:58.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there might be, \Nthere might be,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:59.31,0:40:02.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, cabinet, war cabinet\Nministers saying that.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:02.24,0:40:06.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then, what are the other\Ncabinet ministers doing
Dialogue: 0,0:40:06.76,0:40:08.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the face of this?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:08.35,0:40:12.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What are the MPs, the members\Nof the Knesset, what have they
Dialogue: 0,0:40:12.92,0:40:17.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,done to intervene, to stop\Nthis, this incitement?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:18.62,0:40:21.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What has the judiciary done\Nwhen the International Court
Dialogue: 0,0:40:21.76,0:40:25.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Justice recognised the risk\Nof genocide, ordered Israel to
Dialogue: 0,0:40:25.40,0:40:31.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,take measures to stop carrying\Nout its military operations
Dialogue: 0,0:40:31.08,0:40:34.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a way that could result in\Ngenocidal attacks,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:34.19,0:40:39.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as it had been doing, \Nand had Israel complied
Dialogue: 0,0:40:39.49,0:40:41.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the ICJ provisional measures
Dialogue: 0,0:40:41.56,0:40:45.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of January 2024, we wouldn't\Nbe here today, probably.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:46.02,0:40:48.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what has the\Njudiciary done?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:49.00,0:40:52.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Has the judiciary in Israel\Ninvestigated any of the
Dialogue: 0,0:40:52.18,0:40:56.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people, senior officials of\NIsrael who have been named
Dialogue: 0,0:40:56.82,0:41:02.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the provisional measures, \Nin the text of the court that
Dialogue: 0,0:41:02.28,0:41:05.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,accompanied in the provisional\Nmeasures, that system has
Dialogue: 0,0:41:05.96,0:41:10.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,proven that being a reflex\Nof the enabling environment
Dialogue: 0,0:41:10.26,0:41:12.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that Israel as a state was.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:13.50,0:41:15.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the intent has been,\Nit's not even that we need
Dialogue: 0,0:41:15.89,0:41:18.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to dig to find intent,\Nthere is direct intent.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:19.26,0:41:24.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because when Netanyahu and\Nothers have ordered, again,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:24.22,0:41:29.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,starvation, no water,\Nno fuel, no electricity,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:29.86,0:41:33.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no food, no food.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:34.14,0:41:38.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Of course, this would lead\Nto conditions calculated to
Dialogue: 0,0:41:38.90,0:41:43.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bring about the destruction\Nof a group or members
Dialogue: 0,0:41:43.10,0:41:45.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the group as such\Nidentified as Palestinians.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:46.16,0:41:49.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So in the face of this,\Nthere should have been an
Dialogue: 0,0:41:49.16,0:41:52.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,obligation, as I said, to\Nprevent because the convention
Dialogue: 0,0:41:52.04,0:41:58.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on genocide is not just\Nabout the punishment of
Dialogue: 0,0:41:58.20,0:41:59.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the crime of genocide.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:59.36,0:42:03.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,creates for each state,\Nespecially influential
Dialogue: 0,0:42:03.60,0:42:06.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,states who are providing\Nsupport, an obligation
Dialogue: 0,0:42:06.38,0:42:08.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to prevent and stop.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:08.62,0:42:13.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And again, in April 2024,\Nin Nicaragua versus Germany,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:13.64,0:42:16.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the court reminded Germany\Nand other member states to
Dialogue: 0,0:42:16.70,0:42:20.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intervene by not transferring\Nweapons to states who might be
Dialogue: 0,0:42:20.70,0:42:23.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,committing not just genocidal\Nacts, but violations of
Dialogue: 0,0:42:23.94,0:42:26.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,international humanitarian\Nlaw, including war crimes.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:26.94,0:42:31.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the killing of 17 ,000\Nchildren, what is it?
Dialogue: 0,0:42:32.04,0:42:35.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is what journalists\Nshould ask your Chancellor.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:35.56,0:42:37.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because again, it's not\Nabout his personal opinion,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:37.98,0:42:39.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which I respect very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:39.92,0:42:44.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it doesn't respond to\Nthis question out of personal
Dialogue: 0,0:42:44.10,0:42:45.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,commitment, I imagine.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:45.52,0:42:48.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But as the chancellor of this\Ncountry, which has obligation
Dialogue: 0,0:42:48.30,0:42:49.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,under international law.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:49.66,0:42:55.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the way Germany is evading\Nits obligations and acting
Dialogue: 0,0:42:55.08,0:42:57.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a way that is prohibited\Nunder international
Dialogue: 0,0:42:57.84,0:43:00.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,law cannot be hidden.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:01.08,0:43:02.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the reality.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:03.28,0:43:06.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's an appropriate note\Nto end on before we open
Dialogue: 0,0:43:06.80,0:43:07.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it up to the audience.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:07.88,0:43:10.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are representatives of\NStudents for Palestine, FU,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:10.62,0:43:14.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also students from the\Nnot-so-free university here
Dialogue: 0,0:43:14.46,0:43:17.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Berlin that cancelled\Nyour event tomorrow, so we
Dialogue: 0,0:43:17.98,0:43:20.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are very happy to see you\Nand to ask our questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:20.47,0:43:23.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In a recent viral video,\Nyou rightfully criticized
Dialogue: 0,0:43:23.54,0:43:26.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the German state and the\Nsituation this country is in.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:26.50,0:43:29.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You are also aware of the\Nprotests and the repression
Dialogue: 0,0:43:29.36,0:43:30.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we are experiencing.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:30.86,0:43:33.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our question would be, how\Ncan we stand up against
Dialogue: 0,0:43:33.21,0:43:36.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,such state repression,\Nand who can we trust when
Dialogue: 0,0:43:36.94,0:43:38.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it comes to our rights?
Dialogue: 0,0:43:38.62,0:43:41.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, we are protesting\Nand boycotting, but
Dialogue: 0,0:43:41.06,0:43:42.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what else can we do?
Dialogue: 0,0:43:42.40,0:43:47.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maybe you are aware of this,\NI think we tried to convey a
Dialogue: 0,0:43:47.10,0:43:51.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very comprehensive report on\Nthe collaborations of Freie
Dialogue: 0,0:43:52.00,0:43:56.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Universität with a series\Nof Israeli institutions and
Dialogue: 0,0:43:56.32,0:44:00.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,universities which we think\Nare in very clear breach
Dialogue: 0,0:44:00.12,0:44:03.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of international law and\Nmorality as such too.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:03.78,0:44:07.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To give one example, the Freie\NUniversität is sending its
Dialogue: 0,0:44:07.40,0:44:10.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,students very often without\Nthe knowledge where it's
Dialogue: 0,0:44:10.04,0:44:12.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,specifically sending and what\Nkind of situation it's sending
Dialogue: 0,0:44:12.88,0:44:16.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these students to exchange\Nprograms for example with the
Dialogue: 0,0:44:16.62,0:44:20.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hebrew University which has\Nits students hostels in East
Dialogue: 0,0:44:20.06,0:44:22.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Jerusalem on which we think is
Dialogue: 0,0:44:22.50,0:44:27.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an equal illegal settlement and\Nwe would like if you could say
Dialogue: 0,0:44:27.34,0:44:31.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a few words on what you think\Nare the obligations of German
Dialogue: 0,0:44:31.88,0:44:35.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,universities, in particular\NFU regarding such cases.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:35.62,0:44:38.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We also would like to forward\Na question for later to Eyal
Dialogue: 0,0:44:38.62,0:44:43.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,already, what he thinks, as\Na scholar originally from
Dialogue: 0,0:44:43.34,0:44:47.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Israel, what the political\Nimpact of such campaigns
Dialogue: 0,0:44:47.26,0:44:50.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is also in order to break\Nthe normalisation of
Dialogue: 0,0:44:50.38,0:44:51.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,occupation and apartheid.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:52.66,0:44:57.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And to give another example\Non this, the university's law
Dialogue: 0,0:44:57.08,0:45:01.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,faculty, where I am a student\Nat currently, has a couple of
Dialogue: 0,0:45:01.56,0:45:04.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,programs running, but one of\Nthem is called, Human Rights
Dialogue: 0,0:45:04.66,0:45:08.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Under Pressure, and it\Nadvertises with experiencing
Dialogue: 0,0:45:08.72,0:45:12.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and researching these\Nhuman rights under pressure
Dialogue: 0,0:45:12.20,0:45:13.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the field, and is
Dialogue: 0,0:45:13.54,0:45:19.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sending programs very often\Nto Israel and the occupied
Dialogue: 0,0:45:19.06,0:45:22.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,territories, and as I think\NFrancesca has been made
Dialogue: 0,0:45:22.66,0:45:26.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,aware of by a letter that\NFU professors from the law
Dialogue: 0,0:45:26.26,0:45:32.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,department wrote, yeah, it is,\Nyou know, this normalisation
Dialogue: 0,0:45:32.30,0:45:34.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is happening through these\Nkinds of corporations.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:35.28,0:45:38.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anyways, thanks for your\Nattention, we will probably
Dialogue: 0,0:45:38.08,0:45:47.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tomorrow upload the report\Non bds-fu.de, bds-fu.de,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:47.32,0:45:50.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and try to support the\Ncampaign if you want to.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:51.74,0:45:56.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Applause]
Dialogue: 0,0:45:56.71,0:46:00.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would also like to really\Nbeg for your indulgence in the
Dialogue: 0,0:46:00.39,0:46:04.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sense that, after all, I mean,\NI'm very happy to be received
Dialogue: 0,0:46:04.11,0:46:10.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by so much warmth and\Nexpectations, but also I would
Dialogue: 0,0:46:10.17,0:46:13.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like you to keep realistic\Nexpectations on what
Dialogue: 0,0:46:13.69,0:46:15.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can come from me, in\Nthe sense I'm really
Dialogue: 0,0:46:15.67,0:46:18.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just a human rights lawyer\Nwho's trying to do the right
Dialogue: 0,0:46:18.49,0:46:22.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thing, no more than that, and\NI'm sorry that it's a rare
Dialogue: 0,0:46:22.23,0:46:26.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,commodity in this era, but\NI don't know, sometimes I
Dialogue: 0,0:46:26.29,0:46:30.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just don't know, because let\Nme tell you, I think that
Dialogue: 0,0:46:30.51,0:46:33.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what the universities\Nare doing is wrong.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:34.03,0:46:36.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's so wrong that it should\Nbe brought to justice.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:37.31,0:46:41.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,University cannot have\Npartnerships with anything
Dialogue: 0,0:46:41.11,0:46:43.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that has to do with\Nthe settlements.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:43.79,0:46:46.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Cannot have partnership,\Nbut really we are being
Dialogue: 0,0:46:46.39,0:46:50.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conservative here because at\Nthe time of apartheid South
Dialogue: 0,0:46:50.05,0:46:54.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Africa, it's not that we were\Ngoing to see how to establish
Dialogue: 0,0:46:54.21,0:46:57.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or cut relations with Israel\Njust in the limit of the
Dialogue: 0,0:46:57.83,0:47:01.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bantustan, where South\NAfrica was segregating
Dialogue: 0,0:47:01.95,0:47:04.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the black South Africans.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:04.37,0:47:07.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, if Israel commits\Ncrimes that should lead to
Dialogue: 0,0:47:07.59,0:47:12.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,accountability and justice\N360 degrees, so I'm even
Dialogue: 0,0:47:12.03,0:47:16.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,uncomfortable as a lawyer to\Nhave to split the hair and
Dialogue: 0,0:47:16.23,0:47:18.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,say the settlements and\Nnot the settlements.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:18.79,0:47:21.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maya Wind, an Israeli scholar,\Nhas done incredible work
Dialogue: 0,0:47:21.97,0:47:23.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the responsibility\Nof universities.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:23.77,0:47:27.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As such, Israeli universities\Nexplaining why it's wrong
Dialogue: 0,0:47:27.95,0:47:32.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,today, in 2025, to maintain\Npartnership with Israeli
Dialogue: 0,0:47:32.47,0:47:36.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,universities who are part\Nof Israel's infrastructure,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:36.97,0:47:41.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,military and surveillance\Nand oppression infrastructure
Dialogue: 0,0:47:41.51,0:47:42.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,vis-a-vis the Palestinians.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:43.27,0:47:47.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So not having ties, not\Nhaving relations, not having
Dialogue: 0,0:47:47.73,0:47:51.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,partnerships, not sending\Nstudents to things that
Dialogue: 0,0:47:51.17,0:47:55.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have to do with the occupied\NPalestinian territory should
Dialogue: 0,0:47:55.25,0:47:59.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be the minimum bearable for a\Nuniversity to keep on calling
Dialogue: 0,0:47:59.25,0:48:01.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,itself free, if freedom calls.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:07.84,0:48:12.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That, by the way, I really\Nobject that the university
Dialogue: 0,0:48:12.80,0:48:16.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,keeps on having the name free\Nafter cancelling me and Eyal.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:17.100,0:48:25.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Applause]
Dialogue: 0,0:48:25.98,0:48:27.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What can you do?
Dialogue: 0,0:48:27.18,0:48:31.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You should really try to\Nwork as much as possible
Dialogue: 0,0:48:31.74,0:48:34.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in solidarity with others.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:34.66,0:48:38.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because if one thing I've\Nlearned by myself, is that
Dialogue: 0,0:48:38.52,0:48:40.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unity brings strength.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:41.66,0:48:44.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I understand that\Nespecially, I don't know
Dialogue: 0,0:48:44.28,0:48:48.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if this is unique to the\NPalestine Solidarity Movement,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:48.24,0:48:51.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there is a little bit of\Nsnobbish attitude, to draw,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:51.38,0:48:53.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I agree with this, but\Nthen it doesn't agree
Dialogue: 0,0:48:53.46,0:48:54.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with everything I say.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:55.50,0:48:59.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Can you be minimalist for\Nonce and agree on a few points
Dialogue: 0,0:48:59.08,0:49:01.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like end the genocide, end\Nthe occupation, and end
Dialogue: 0,0:49:01.92,0:49:03.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,apartheid, and then,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:03.51,0:49:10.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Applause]
Dialogue: 0,0:49:10.89,0:49:14.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let's say, because in time,\Nin south of Italy, I come from
Dialogue: 0,0:49:14.73,0:49:18.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a region of peasants, so we\Nhave a very simple way of
Dialogue: 0,0:49:18.35,0:49:23.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understanding life in a way,\Nand say "in time of deluge,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:23.23,0:49:24.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all arms are needed".
Dialogue: 0,0:49:24.49,0:49:28.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is the thing, this\Nis a time of crisis, so all
Dialogue: 0,0:49:28.33,0:49:31.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,brains are needed, all mouth\Nand eyes and ears are needed,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:31.43,0:49:37.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so let's just ally along the\Nlines of, there is a need
Dialogue: 0,0:49:37.49,0:49:41.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a popular front around\Nhuman rights and justice,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:41.57,0:49:43.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because what's happening\Nin Palestine is
Dialogue: 0,0:49:43.93,0:49:48.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not staying in Palestine, nor\Nin Israel either, so it's,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:48.49,0:49:50.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, yeah, it's the same.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:50.12,0:49:55.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so this is why it's\Nnecessary to try to explore
Dialogue: 0,0:49:55.33,0:49:59.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,creatively what alliances\Nyou might need, including
Dialogue: 0,0:49:59.51,0:50:03.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with universities outside\NGermany, or with scholars.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:03.67,0:50:06.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are a few scholars here,\Nbut there are a few scholars
Dialogue: 0,0:50:06.44,0:50:07.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who have been speaking out.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:07.78,0:50:11.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, to be honest, Eyal\Nand I, when former Freie
Dialogue: 0,0:50:11.71,0:50:17.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,University invited us, it was\NFreie University invited us,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:17.33,0:50:20.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We received an invitation\Nfrom Potsdam University.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:21.29,0:50:25.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I cannot ensure 100 % that the\Nevent would have been, would
Dialogue: 0,0:50:25.25,0:50:28.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have not been cancelled, but\Nat least there was an attempt
Dialogue: 0,0:50:28.19,0:50:29.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we couldn't make it.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:29.55,0:50:31.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it was too much\Nshort notice, sorry.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:32.29,0:50:37.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But again, this is where we\Nneed to reach out to everyone
Dialogue: 0,0:50:37.07,0:50:40.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who's sensible enough, who\Nhas a minimum of knowledge and
Dialogue: 0,0:50:40.59,0:50:44.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a minimum of decency, which\Nshouldn't be too much to ask,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:44.57,0:50:48.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so as to stand up against the\Ninjustice that is spreading
Dialogue: 0,0:50:48.87,0:50:50.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in this country as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:50.19,0:50:52.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you, Francesca, for\Nbeing here and for all the
Dialogue: 0,0:50:52.67,0:50:55.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,work that you have been\Ndoing for over the past year.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:56.03,0:50:59.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you touched a little bit\Non this, and probably this is
Dialogue: 0,0:50:59.25,0:51:02.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to be a controversial\Nquestion, but as a
Dialogue: 0,0:51:02.91,0:51:06.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Palestinian, all these, like,\Ninternational laws, human
Dialogue: 0,0:51:06.69,0:51:10.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rights, the UN, all of these\Nthings, how we can trust
Dialogue: 0,0:51:10.71,0:51:13.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and, like, put our trust\Nin these concepts and
Dialogue: 0,0:51:13.61,0:51:15.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,institutions, if they
Dialogue: 0,0:51:15.25,0:51:19.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fail to stop the genocide for\Nthe past 16 months when all
Dialogue: 0,0:51:19.51,0:51:24.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the greater powers in the\Nworld are not following or
Dialogue: 0,0:51:24.09,0:51:29.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like listening to or abiding\Nby all these laws, and also
Dialogue: 0,0:51:29.77,0:51:33.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the veto right as well,\Nwhen five superpowers can
Dialogue: 0,0:51:33.51,0:51:38.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just veto any ceasefire\Nor any resolution?
Dialogue: 0,0:51:38.81,0:51:41.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not going to answer that\Nquestion because the point
Dialogue: 0,0:51:41.57,0:51:43.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not that you should\Ntrust the system.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:43.47,0:51:44.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You shouldn't\Ntrust the system.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:45.39,0:51:51.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You shouldn't expect the\Nsystem to give you anything.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:51.75,0:51:54.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because again, what the\NPalestinians have got
Dialogue: 0,0:51:54.41,0:51:57.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is something that the\NPalestinians had to fight for.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:57.69,0:52:00.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's not that the\NPalestinians are exceptional.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:00.93,0:52:03.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This epitomises\Nthe struggle of any
Dialogue: 0,0:52:03.67,0:52:05.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,minorities in this world.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:06.11,0:52:10.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And again, so you need really\Nto count on all possible
Dialogue: 0,0:52:10.83,0:52:12.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,forces and alliances.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:12.39,0:52:16.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for example, not everything\Nin the United Nations is bad.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:17.12,0:52:18.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No one is saying that
Dialogue: 0,0:52:19.41,0:52:20.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ah.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:20.17,0:52:21.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm joking.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:21.22,0:52:22.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, no.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:22.01,0:52:25.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I want to say, I want\Nto say that there have been
Dialogue: 0,0:52:25.29,0:52:27.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,30 special rapporteurs.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:27.63,0:52:31.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now you see me, but there has\Nbeen 30 special rapporteurs.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:31.55,0:52:36.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And while the struggle and the\Nattacks against me are known,
Dialogue: 0,0:52:36.09,0:52:40.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,many others have not even\Nthat visibility to complain
Dialogue: 0,0:52:40.99,0:52:42.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or to elicit solidarity.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:42.41,0:52:46.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's really about\Nsupporting each other and from
Dialogue: 0,0:52:46.25,0:52:49.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the different walks of life\Nwe come from, etc, etc.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:49.87,0:52:54.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the thing is that there\Nis also some difficulty in
Dialogue: 0,0:52:54.29,0:53:00.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exploring how to build these\Nalliances, because we are more
Dialogue: 0,0:53:00.95,0:53:02.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fragile in these societies.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:02.93,0:53:05.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are not, you see,\Neven grieving together.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:05.59,0:53:08.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why my lectures have\Nbecome a place where
Dialogue: 0,0:53:08.91,0:53:09.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people come and cry?
Dialogue: 0,0:53:09.99,0:53:13.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because in our societies,\Nthere is no, we are not
Dialogue: 0,0:53:13.47,0:53:17.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,afforded the luxury of\Nplaces for collective grief.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:18.21,0:53:21.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And where we can also talk\Nabout what we have gone
Dialogue: 0,0:53:21.47,0:53:26.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through, we can check on each\Nother and have the courage to
Dialogue: 0,0:53:26.19,0:53:29.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,look into each other's eyes\Nand say, it's okay, it's okay
Dialogue: 0,0:53:29.31,0:53:32.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to cry, it's okay to feel\Ncrazy, it's okay to be scared
Dialogue: 0,0:53:32.77,0:53:34.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to carry fear,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:34.90,0:53:35.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's okay.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:35.93,0:53:42.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And even rage, and even\Nwanting to express oneself in
Dialogue: 0,0:53:42.19,0:53:46.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ways that are not necessarily\Ncompliant with German or
Dialogue: 0,0:53:46.11,0:53:49.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even Italian standards,\Nit's okay to be enraged
Dialogue: 0,0:53:49.07,0:53:50.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,against the system.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:50.45,0:53:54.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The point is that how do we\Nmove beyond grief into action?
Dialogue: 0,0:53:55.35,0:53:57.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is where we need\Nto understand what it means,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:58.01,0:54:02.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think, being in the line,\Nwhere everything is at risk.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:02.01,0:54:05.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, and I know that now,\Nit's still, we have some
Dialogue: 0,0:54:05.37,0:54:10.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,privilege in our works, but\Nif some of us start to lose
Dialogue: 0,0:54:10.59,0:54:14.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it just for exercising their\Nrights, we should all feel
Dialogue: 0,0:54:14.63,0:54:18.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,worried, because sooner\Nor later it will hit us.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:18.53,0:54:22.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is where we need to\Nbuild nets, safety nets,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:22.73,0:54:23.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to help each other.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:25.21,0:54:27.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We don't need, really,\Nwe don't need to spend
Dialogue: 0,0:54:27.61,0:54:28.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that much in our life.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:28.93,0:54:31.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We can have times\Nof austerity.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:31.87,0:54:36.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We should afford austerity\Nin our own life and trust me,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:36.31,0:54:40.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you see how my consumption\Nof clothes, my expenditure
Dialogue: 0,0:54:40.67,0:54:43.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for clothes has gone down\Nfrom two years ago to
Dialogue: 0,0:54:43.63,0:54:45.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,now, you understand\Nwhat austerity means.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:46.15,0:54:51.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But in the sense we don't\Nneed as much, so we can afford
Dialogue: 0,0:54:51.63,0:54:54.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,less but also share more.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:54.33,0:54:56.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know it sounds idealistic,\Nbut this is where I have
Dialogue: 0,0:54:56.93,0:54:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have more trust in these\Nthan in what you said.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:01.66,0:55:05.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Applause]
Dialogue: 0,0:55:05.90,0:55:11.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also, also, apartheid\Nand racial segregation in
Dialogue: 0,0:55:11.95,0:55:16.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the United States and the\Ndictatorships from Chile,
Dialogue: 0,0:55:16.41,0:55:20.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Argentina, Chile, sorry,\NBrazil, they didn't,
Dialogue: 0,0:55:20.17,0:55:23.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or colonialism, brutal\Ncolonisation, although
Dialogue: 0,0:55:23.35,0:55:26.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,colonialism is still\Nlingering, and this is the
Dialogue: 0,0:55:26.03,0:55:28.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,opportunity to unpack it,\Nbecause if one thing about
Dialogue: 0,0:55:28.55,0:55:32.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Palestine, the genocide in\NPalestine has brought to
Dialogue: 0,0:55:32.07,0:55:34.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the fore is what\Nsettler colonialism and
Dialogue: 0,0:55:34.45,0:55:35.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,colonialism still is.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:35.87,0:55:38.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it has spoke to the bubble\Nof colonial amnesia that we
Dialogue: 0,0:55:38.69,0:55:40.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have grown into, many of us.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:41.13,0:55:44.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So again, let's take the\Nsilver, let's look at the
Dialogue: 0,0:55:44.35,0:55:46.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,silver lining out there.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:46.99,0:55:48.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is a moment to do better.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:50.24,0:55:53.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have to think together\Nand act together.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:53.62,0:55:55.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the only\Nthing I feel to say.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:55.98,0:55:57.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hi, my name is Mark Barton.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:57.36,0:55:58.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm a composer and\Nprofessor in Germany.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:58.90,0:56:03.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My question is about press\Nfreedom for Ms. Albanese and
Dialogue: 0,0:56:03.32,0:56:06.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the provisions that exist\Nunder international law to
Dialogue: 0,0:56:06.02,0:56:07.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,guarantee press freedom.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:08.32,0:56:11.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We saw in Israel's attacks in\NLebanon, we saw the ability
Dialogue: 0,0:56:11.96,0:56:15.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of journalists to respond\Nimmediately to accusations,
Dialogue: 0,0:56:15.14,0:56:17.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for example, that hospitals\Nwere being used by terrorists.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:18.22,0:56:22.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we saw the role that\Njournalism can play in
Dialogue: 0,0:56:22.56,0:56:26.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,debunking disinformation\Nin real time.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:26.92,0:56:29.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We don't see a lot of that\Nhappening in the West Bank
Dialogue: 0,0:56:29.40,0:56:32.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right now, and right now\Nthere's a ceasefire in Gaza.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:32.94,0:56:35.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We also don't see a lot of\Ninternational journalists
Dialogue: 0,0:56:35.40,0:56:38.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,active, and I'm wondering if\Nthere's anything international
Dialogue: 0,0:56:38.17,0:56:39.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,law can do to force\Nthat to happen.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:39.79,0:56:43.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I think of what\Njournalists have done, and
Dialogue: 0,0:56:43.08,0:56:46.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you mentioned Lebanon, I mean,\Nit's even more shocking the
Dialogue: 0,0:56:46.68,0:56:50.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of double, I mean the\Nmoral compass and the moral,
Dialogue: 0,0:56:50.68,0:56:55.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the double, the selective\Nattitude that has been used
Dialogue: 0,0:56:55.56,0:56:58.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after the Pager attack because\NI don't know how it was in
Dialogue: 0,0:56:58.82,0:57:01.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Germany but in my own country\Nand other countries I saw
Dialogue: 0,0:57:01.49,0:57:04.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,politicians and journalists\Nlaughing about that and
Dialogue: 0,0:57:04.76,0:57:08.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,commenting on how audacious\Nand genius it was.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:08.34,0:57:10.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wieland] Praising the\Ningenuity of the attack.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:10.53,0:57:14.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But this is where I say the\Nentry point now where they're
Dialogue: 0,0:57:14.10,0:57:17.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rallying, I mean something\Nto fight because this is
Dialogue: 0,0:57:17.02,0:57:19.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the common enemy, is racism.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:19.76,0:57:25.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Racism it was, racism it is,\Nand racism continues to be.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:27.57,0:57:32.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then was it, again,\NI do not think that is
Dialogue: 0,0:57:32.17,0:57:35.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,international law was not\Nable to stop genocide.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:36.01,0:57:39.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,International law, it doesn't\Nhave, I mean, doesn't have
Dialogue: 0,0:57:39.43,0:57:43.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hands to slap the face of\Ngovernment officials who
Dialogue: 0,0:57:43.95,0:57:46.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pretend not to understand\Nwhat genocide is.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:46.73,0:57:49.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not referring to anyone\Nin this country now, okay?
Dialogue: 0,0:57:50.19,0:57:53.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Seriously, I mean we have\Nenough bad politicians in my
Dialogue: 0,0:57:53.41,0:58:00.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,own country and where even\Nthe hypothesis of a two-state
Dialogue: 0,0:58:00.53,0:58:04.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,solution now is dismantled by\Nthe foreign minister because
Dialogue: 0,0:58:04.63,0:58:07.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Gaza's been turned into rubble\Nand the West Bank is too
Dialogue: 0,0:58:07.83,0:58:09.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,small and I was saying,\Nare you suggesting
Dialogue: 0,0:58:09.87,0:58:11.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the Palestinians
Dialogue: 0,0:58:11.01,0:58:14.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,take over Israel just because\Nwhat remains is too little?
Dialogue: 0,0:58:14.67,0:58:17.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is the kind of\Npolitical discussions we have
Dialogue: 0,0:58:17.39,0:58:21.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,today and we need to somewhat\Ntalk to the intellectuals,
Dialogue: 0,0:58:21.75,0:58:22.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talk to the scholars.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:23.07,0:58:25.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is also about the\Nconstitutional order that
Dialogue: 0,0:58:25.67,0:58:28.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is being undermined, not\Njust international system.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:29.23,0:58:31.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,International system has\Nrules, at the constitutional
Dialogue: 0,0:58:31.76,0:58:32.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,level we have rules.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:32.73,0:58:34.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What's happening to them?
Dialogue: 0,0:58:34.01,0:58:36.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So again, back to you guys.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:36.87,0:58:40.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My question goes a bit in\Nline, like, seeing that the
Dialogue: 0,0:58:40.05,0:58:44.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,current international law\Nhas been unable for 16 months
Dialogue: 0,0:58:44.07,0:58:48.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to stop a genocide, I can't\Nbelieve I'm saying this, what
Dialogue: 0,0:58:48.65,0:58:53.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would, in your expert opinion,\Nbe the ideal international
Dialogue: 0,0:58:53.03,0:58:57.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,law system, functioning\Nsystem, who would draft
Dialogue: 0,0:58:57.41,0:58:58.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it, who would enforce it?
Dialogue: 0,0:58:58.67,0:59:01.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We know that this one, based\Non the nation-state, with this
Dialogue: 0,0:59:01.93,0:59:06.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Security Council created by\Nthe winning powers from World
Dialogue: 0,0:59:06.31,0:59:08.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,War II with a veto power, et\Ncetera, is not functioning.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:09.99,0:59:12.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How would you, yeah,\Nwhat would be the
Dialogue: 0,0:59:12.43,0:59:15.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ideal international law\Nsystem in your view?
Dialogue: 0,0:59:15.32,0:59:16.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:16.08,0:59:18.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As I said before, apartheid\Nwas not dismantled
Dialogue: 0,0:59:18.71,0:59:19.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by member states.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:19.93,0:59:22.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was very late, when\Nit was unavoidable that
Dialogue: 0,0:59:22.67,0:59:25.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they started sanctioning\Napartheid South Africa.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:25.95,0:59:30.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But really, we need to\Nlearn from other movements
Dialogue: 0,0:59:30.19,0:59:34.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where resistance, peaceful\Nresistance, has organised at
Dialogue: 0,0:59:34.17,0:59:39.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a global level, admitting that\Nnever before there had been
Dialogue: 0,0:59:39.05,0:59:46.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,such a coalition of allies\Nat the international level
Dialogue: 0,0:59:46.83,0:59:50.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,aiming to crush solidarity.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:50.69,0:59:51.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is new.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:51.77,0:59:54.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But again, also the kind of\Nforces that we can mobilise
Dialogue: 0,0:59:55.01,0:59:57.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is new, because the\NGlobal South is rising.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:57.67,1:00:01.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I know that in our\Neurocentric view of the world,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:01.11,1:00:06.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we only look at the depressed,\Nquite politically depressing
Dialogue: 0,1:00:06.74,1:00:09.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,scenario we have, but there\Nare also member states who
Dialogue: 0,1:00:09.74,1:00:11.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are cutting ties with Israel.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:11.56,1:00:14.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are member states, I\Nmean, I was joking today, but
Dialogue: 0,1:00:14.23,1:00:17.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I say in a few years, we will\Nkeep on asking funds, seeking
Dialogue: 0,1:00:17.36,1:00:22.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,funds to, I don't know, Arab\Ncountries or the Global South
Dialogue: 0,1:00:22.12,1:00:25.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in order to protect our own\Nwork in this part of the world,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:25.10,1:00:26.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the human rights work,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:26.25,1:00:29.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it doesn't matter,\Nthis will make us more equal.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:29.00,1:00:31.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I also think that the\Ndiscourse should change
Dialogue: 0,1:00:31.37,1:00:37.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of where the\NUnited States is going is
Dialogue: 0,1:00:37.46,1:00:38.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a place of lawlessness.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:40.02,1:00:42.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the opportunity for\Nthe international community
Dialogue: 0,1:00:42.84,1:00:46.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to step back, but it will\Nnot happen automatically
Dialogue: 0,1:00:46.48,1:00:50.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we are part of this\Noligarchical order where it's
Dialogue: 0,1:00:50.78,1:00:53.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not about what the people\Nthink, it's what about
Dialogue: 0,1:00:53.20,1:00:57.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,capitalistic interests decide\Nand this is why I keep on
Dialogue: 0,1:00:57.22,1:00:59.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,saying it's difficult and it's
Dialogue: 0,1:00:59.40,1:01:02.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,difficult because it's a\Nstruggle against the system
Dialogue: 0,1:01:02.38,1:01:05.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of which Palestine is a\Nsystem, not necessarily
Dialogue: 0,1:01:05.66,1:01:07.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the cause of all evil.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:07.89,1:01:10.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Applause]
Dialogue: 0,1:01:10.85,1:01:14.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would like to pose a\Nquestion concerning genocide,
Dialogue: 0,1:01:14.45,1:01:17.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which you said it's very\Ndifficult to prove this mental
Dialogue: 0,1:01:17.29,1:01:21.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,state of committing it, but\Nthen we have another layer
Dialogue: 0,1:01:22.01,1:01:26.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this is incitement, which\Nwe've been witnessing here
Dialogue: 0,1:01:26.45,1:01:31.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Germany from the very\Nbeginning, October 7, 23,
Dialogue: 0,1:01:31.61,1:01:34.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how Palestinians, but in
Dialogue: 0,1:01:34.19,1:01:36.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all their layers of\Nlife, together with their
Dialogue: 0,1:01:36.55,1:01:38.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,children, are dehumanised.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:39.43,1:01:44.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We just need to read\NTagesschau or Bild, and if I
Dialogue: 0,1:01:44.81,1:01:49.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,may read, or not to take time,\Nbut this is a serious problem,
Dialogue: 0,1:01:49.25,1:01:52.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then if I go back to\Nthe history and the magazine
Dialogue: 0,1:01:52.47,1:01:57.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sturmer and compare the\Nimages, not that I'm
Dialogue: 0,1:01:57.69,1:02:02.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,comparing, comparing, but\Nthis historical flow of
Dialogue: 0,1:02:02.17,1:02:03.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,dehumanising then.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:04.15,1:02:05.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have no problem\Nwith comparison.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:05.85,1:02:10.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay, but then I am now\Ncareful, so because we
Dialogue: 0,1:02:10.73,1:02:12.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know what can happen.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:12.39,1:02:16.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the processes of\Ndehumanisations do last, and
Dialogue: 0,1:02:16.15,1:02:19.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they tell us that genocide,\Nlike for instance, in the
Dialogue: 0,1:02:19.57,1:02:23.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,country where I am from,\NSerbia, lasts for a long time.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:23.57,1:02:27.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I, as someone from\NSerbia, could also recognise
Dialogue: 0,1:02:27.23,1:02:31.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,dehumanising images of\NBosniaks or Bosnian Muslims
Dialogue: 0,1:02:31.23,1:02:36.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then Palestinians while\Nreading magazines, Bild, not
Dialogue: 0,1:02:36.11,1:02:41.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I read Bild, but Bild,\NTagesschau, or even I will now
Dialogue: 0,1:02:41.47,1:02:46.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mention the January 19th and\Nthe release of hostages, which
Dialogue: 0,1:02:46.05,1:02:47.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was really an important day,
Dialogue: 0,1:02:47.71,1:02:51.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it is every time when\Nwe celebrate freed lives.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:51.17,1:02:53.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but then also freed\Nlives from the prison.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:54.55,1:02:59.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when we see how they are\Nrepresented as the groyalde
Dialogue: 0,1:02:59.21,1:03:03.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Menge, can you help\Nme translate this?
Dialogue: 0,1:03:04.53,1:03:07.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Screaming crowd, groyalde\Nor the schreiende.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:08.15,1:03:12.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is my question about\Nthe incitement, also how
Dialogue: 0,1:03:12.33,1:03:17.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to organise ourselves to be\Naware, to collect, to archive,
Dialogue: 0,1:03:17.53,1:03:21.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also then to serve to the\Nlegal cause in the future.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:21.47,1:03:23.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And thank you for\Nyour patience.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:23.50,1:03:29.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Applause]
Dialogue: 0,1:03:29.69,1:03:32.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again, genocide is difficult\Nto prove because genocide
Dialogue: 0,1:03:32.79,1:03:34.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should be difficult to commit.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:34.41,1:03:38.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We should not confuse the\Nintent with the reasons.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:38.83,1:03:42.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, because people say,\NIsrael, we cannot really say
Dialogue: 0,1:03:42.57,1:03:46.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that Israel wanted to destroy\NGaza, even if it has destroyed
Dialogue: 0,1:03:46.75,1:03:50.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Gaza, even if it has said,\Nthere are Israeli leaders who
Dialogue: 0,1:03:50.75,1:03:53.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have ordered the destruction\Nof Gaza, and general
Dialogue: 0,1:03:53.37,1:03:56.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,commanders who have,\Nin fact, ordered their
Dialogue: 0,1:03:56.31,1:03:57.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,soldiers, so there has
Dialogue: 0,1:03:57.54,1:04:01.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been the order, the chain of\Ncommand effectively triggered,
Dialogue: 0,1:04:01.27,1:04:03.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bottom, sorry, top to bottom.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:03.61,1:04:07.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They say, yeah, but they were\Nalso saying that Israel was
Dialogue: 0,1:04:07.10,1:04:09.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also saying that they want\Nto liberate the hostages
Dialogue: 0,1:04:09.53,1:04:11.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or destroy Hamas,\Nwhatever it means.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:12.33,1:04:16.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And no, we shouldn't confuse\Nthis because the reasons can
Dialogue: 0,1:04:16.87,1:04:20.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be many, but have really no\Nvalue in the determination
Dialogue: 0,1:04:20.37,1:04:23.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of intent, which is another\Nthing, it's the mindset.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:23.69,1:04:28.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When the mindset is\Nthere to destroy, and the
Dialogue: 0,1:04:28.27,1:04:32.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,genocide shouldn't even be\Ncommitted, the incitement
Dialogue: 0,1:04:32.35,1:04:37.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is sufficient to trigger the\Nresponsibility to prevent.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:38.17,1:04:42.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is where, you know,\Nwhen the first person to talk
Dialogue: 0,1:04:42.09,1:04:45.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about genocide in the context\Nof what has happened in Gaza
Dialogue: 0,1:04:45.19,1:04:49.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was Raz Sigal, an Israeli\Nhistorian, who said, this is
Dialogue: 0,1:04:49.57,1:04:51.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a textbook case of genocide.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:52.57,1:04:56.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And ignorant as I was back\Nthen, I said, oh, come on.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:57.13,1:04:59.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not a textbook case,\Nbecause as a good European, I
Dialogue: 0,1:04:59.73,1:05:03.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,knew that the textbook case of\Ngenocide, first, I mean, and
Dialogue: 0,1:05:03.17,1:05:07.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,again, I had seen the failure\Nto prevent genocide in Rwanda
Dialogue: 0,1:05:07.95,1:05:09.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in Bosnia-Herzegovina.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:09.73,1:05:13.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So my point was, if there are\Nno crematoria, if there are no
Dialogue: 0,1:05:13.39,1:05:18.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,machetes, if there is no mass\Nkilling, it's not genocide,
Dialogue: 0,1:05:18.99,1:05:21.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's not true, it's not true.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:21.21,1:05:26.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is why genocide\Nhas been a niche in legal
Dialogue: 0,1:05:26.03,1:05:28.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,studies for a long time,\Nand it's no longer that.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:29.07,1:05:32.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, really, Raz was right\Nwhen he said that this is a
Dialogue: 0,1:05:33.01,1:05:36.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,textbook case of genocide,\Nbecause it's not just a
Dialogue: 0,1:05:36.15,1:05:38.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,genocide, it's a settler\Ncolonial genocide.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:39.31,1:05:42.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the aim is ethnic\Ncleansing, because the aim
Dialogue: 0,1:05:42.85,1:05:46.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is to empty the land of\NPalestinians, keep on
Dialogue: 0,1:05:46.63,1:05:50.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,advancing Palestinian erasure\Nso that the land can be
Dialogue: 0,1:05:50.07,1:05:52.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,taken, but also genocidal\Nacts are being committed
Dialogue: 0,1:05:52.61,1:05:53.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the process.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:53.95,1:05:55.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's been said,\Nand it has been done.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:55.97,1:05:58.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is not a case where\Nthere is no genocidal intent.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:58.67,1:06:02.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But Raz is also, I mean, I\Nremember that Raz has been
Dialogue: 0,1:06:02.05,1:06:07.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of those scholars calling\Nme as early as February 2023,
Dialogue: 0,1:06:07.05,1:06:10.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,saying, as I was writing\Nabout the tension and
Dialogue: 0,1:06:10.09,1:06:13.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mass carcerality, mass\Nincarceration, and the
Dialogue: 0,1:06:13.33,1:06:18.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of, the systemic and\Nwidespread the nature of
Dialogue: 0,1:06:18.39,1:06:20.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,deprivation of liberty of\Nthe Palestinians.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:21.19,1:06:23.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he was saying, but\Nwhen are you going to
Dialogue: 0,1:06:23.25,1:06:25.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,look into the genocide\Nagainst the Palestinians?
Dialogue: 0,1:06:25.49,1:06:26.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Imagine my reaction.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:26.56,1:06:28.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I say, okay,\Nlet's talk about that.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:28.38,1:06:30.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But then I've realised how\Nmuch he was right because as
Dialogue: 0,1:06:30.99,1:06:35.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a genocide scholar and someone\Nwho has studied the Holocaust
Dialogue: 0,1:06:35.27,1:06:38.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and other cases of genocide,\Nhe knows that there
Dialogue: 0,1:06:38.23,1:06:39.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are different steps.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:39.53,1:06:42.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That genocide is not an act,\Nit's a process, and it's
Dialogue: 0,1:06:42.69,1:06:45.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,preceded by a number of\Nthings, but there is one
Dialogue: 0,1:06:45.61,1:06:49.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,element that is common,\Ncommon across all genocides,
Dialogue: 0,1:06:49.67,1:06:52.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and wouldn't be possible\Nif it was not widespread
Dialogue: 0,1:06:52.47,1:06:53.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,among societies.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:54.05,1:06:56.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's dehumanisation\Nof the other.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:56.43,1:06:58.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that we do not\Nsee the Palestinians
Dialogue: 0,1:06:58.29,1:06:59.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,today as Palestinians.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:00.95,1:07:05.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And again, as a European, this\Nis me taking, please don't
Dialogue: 0,1:07:06.01,1:07:09.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,applaud, don't nod, don't say\Nanything, hold your breath,
Dialogue: 0,1:07:09.85,1:07:12.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I need to say that\Nbecause I wouldn't be
Dialogue: 0,1:07:12.19,1:07:13.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,me if I didn't say that.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:14.19,1:07:18.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But as a European, as an\NItalian, I know that the
Dialogue: 0,1:07:18.67,1:07:22.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,genocide of the Jewish people\Nin this part of the world
Dialogue: 0,1:07:22.17,1:07:25.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would not have been possible\Nonly for a few monsters
Dialogue: 0,1:07:25.83,1:07:28.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who had planned the\Ndeportation, the trains,
Dialogue: 0,1:07:28.99,1:07:31.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the industrialisation, the\Nhorror that has been done.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:32.15,1:07:35.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Jewish people in this part of\Nthe world, before being sent
Dialogue: 0,1:07:35.83,1:07:40.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to concentration camps, have\Ndied out of starvation and
Dialogue: 0,1:07:40.55,1:07:45.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lack of hygiene in ghettos\Nwhere they had been locked up.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:46.83,1:07:49.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We know that the\Ndiscrimination started, the
Dialogue: 0,1:07:49.85,1:07:53.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,dehumanisation had already\Nstarted when it was possible
Dialogue: 0,1:07:53.19,1:07:56.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to kick out of their\Nprofessions,
Dialogue: 0,1:07:56.05,1:07:58.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people because they were Jewish.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:00.41,1:08:06.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Either we do realise that\Nracism was the root cause
Dialogue: 0,1:08:06.73,1:08:10.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the genocide of the Jews,\Nthe Roma, and Sinti, and it's
Dialogue: 0,1:08:10.91,1:08:15.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ingrained in who we are as\NEuropean, I'm sorry, but 500
Dialogue: 0,1:08:15.19,1:08:19.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,years of colonialism have\Nbeen predicated upon the idea
Dialogue: 0,1:08:19.37,1:08:23.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a superior race, white,\Nmale, Christian, and
Dialogue: 0,1:08:23.19,1:08:25.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's patriarchy.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:25.00,1:08:25.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Applause]
Dialogue: 0,1:08:25.80,1:08:26.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Either we deal with it,
Dialogue: 0,1:08:26.90,1:08:27.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No...
Dialogue: 0,1:08:27.93,1:08:30.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Applause]
Dialogue: 0,1:08:30.71,1:08:32.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's my responsibility, because
Dialogue: 0,1:08:32.50,1:08:36.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then it's here, I understand\Nthat you cannot talk.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:36.02,1:08:39.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, I'm not making\Ncomparison, for God's sake.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:40.56,1:08:41.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But also, it's history.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:42.72,1:08:45.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Germany has\Ncommitted two genocides.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:45.50,1:08:47.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Please don't applaud,\Nbecause there is nothing
Dialogue: 0,1:08:48.00,1:08:49.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to applaud to this.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:49.82,1:08:52.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Germany has committed\Ntwo genocides in history.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:53.02,1:08:55.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Inaudible]
Dialogue: 0,1:08:55.56,1:08:56.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oops.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:56.62,1:08:58.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay, that's fine.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:58.88,1:09:00.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Two are bad enough.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:00.84,1:09:04.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And again, why can't\Nwe talk about that?
Dialogue: 0,1:09:05.76,1:09:08.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Are the Nama and Herero less human?
Dialogue: 0,1:09:09.11,1:09:11.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do they deserve less\Nacknowledgment, do they
Dialogue: 0,1:09:11.75,1:09:13.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,deserve less memory,\Ndo they deserve less
Dialogue: 0,1:09:13.97,1:09:15.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reparations?
Dialogue: 0,1:09:15.41,1:09:19.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And again, and another thing, and so\Nme saying that, probably
Dialogue: 0,1:09:19.27,1:09:21.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you should say that, the\NState of Israel doesn't
Dialogue: 0,1:09:21.91,1:09:24.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,represent all the Jewish\Npeople in the world.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:24.91,1:09:27.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Otherwise, I wouldn't\Nunderstand why you invite me
Dialogue: 0,1:09:27.45,1:09:29.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and sit with me today, and\Nso many, I mean, wherever
Dialogue: 0,1:09:29.88,1:09:32.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I go, I'm invited by Jewish\Npeople first and foremost.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:32.42,1:09:34.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We need to have the\Ncourage to say that.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:35.33,1:09:38.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do not expect every\None of you to say that.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:38.37,1:09:41.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But those of you who have\Nan inch of privilege in this
Dialogue: 0,1:09:41.69,1:09:46.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,country, university professors\Nwith tenure, Jewish people
Dialogue: 0,1:09:46.75,1:09:50.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,first and foremost, we need\Nto say that it's not in our
Dialogue: 0,1:09:50.33,1:09:53.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,name that this can be carried\Nout because we have not
Dialogue: 0,1:09:53.31,1:09:55.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been able to prevent the\Ngenocide of the Tutsi,
Dialogue: 0,1:09:55.75,1:09:57.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have not been able to\Nprevent the genocide of
Dialogue: 0,1:09:58.01,1:10:04.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Yazidi, or the Rohingya\Nin Myanmar, or in Bosnia.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:04.47,1:10:07.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, however, I really\Nwant this to be the last
Dialogue: 0,1:10:08.01,1:10:09.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,genocide of human history.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:09.55,1:10:12.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's not going to\Nhappen until it's stopped.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:12.47,1:10:14.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In order for this \Nto be stopped,
Dialogue: 0,1:10:14.06,1:10:16.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it needs to be \Nunderstood and recognised.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:16.11,1:10:17.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wieland] Absolutely.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:17.24,1:10:18.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:18.75,1:10:21.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A perfect point to end, even\Nif, obviously, many of us
Dialogue: 0,1:10:21.85,1:10:23.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would like to continue.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:23.31,1:10:28.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there are still further\Nparts of this program, which,
Dialogue: 0,1:10:28.83,1:10:32.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,somewhat amazingly, has been\Nallowed to proceed this far.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:32.51,1:10:34.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So let's see if we\Nmake it to the end.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:34.99,1:10:37.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, so thank you again,\NFrancesca Albanese.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:38.03,1:10:41.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Applause]