Hello and welcome to The Coop a HEN
Hangout

and we're so happy to welcome you
all to the first session of 2025.

So we are the organizers of The Coop.

So I'm T Braun, Franklin Bonivento van Grieken

...

Denise Rogers Valenzuela,

and we are the curators of The Coop.

and we work in consultation with Laura
Levin and Tracy Tidgwell and Firmo Pompeu

will be doing Portuguese
English interpretation today.

So to activate the translation,
you select the globe

icon at the bottom of your screen,
and if you don't see it, click on more.

And it's called interpretation
so you can listen.

So Denise is holding up to show.

You can listen to the original audio

or English or Portuguese,
and you'll hear two voices

during the interpretation,
the original speaker and Firmo.

But if that's too much sensory
stimulation, you can always select mute

original audio and you can switch
between those two options

during the event, and this information
we pasted in the chat.

And if you have any tech issues or questions, you can message Denise in the chat.

Yes, and also

we will have closed captioning in English

and to activate the captions
you click on the three dots

or where it says "more".

And if you can't see the captions,
which is like two ccs in a little box

and also at the bottom.

Yeah.

And if you have any questions,
just message me.

Yeah,

and finally,
we want to let you know that we will be

recording
today's event for archival purposes,

and The Coop is an online gathering
where we invite guests involved

with the Hemispheric Encounters Network
and beyond for a conversation.

And although many of you are involved
with Hemispheric Encounters,

the Hemispheric Encounters
Network or HEN for short

is a growing network
of activists, artists,

academics, students and community
organizations from across the Americas

that explore hemispheric performance
as a methodology,

a pedagogical strategy,
and a tool for social change.

And if

you would like to hear about future
sessions of The Coop, you can follow

Hemispheric Encounters on Instagram
at HemiEncounters.

And if you would like to see

any past sessions or something you lost, 
you can view them on the HEN website.

You can also get in touch with us
via email at

the.coop.hangout@gmail.com

I will paste these links in the chat.

So, no worries.

You don't have to memorize
all this information,

so, to be in touch.

Okay.

And before we hear from our speakers,
we want to offer a land acknowledgment.

So today, obviously we're gathered online.

So we're all in different territories
and each with their own

original caretakers and their particular
iterations of colonialism unfolding.

But Franklin and I

are presently in Tiohtià:ke
or what is known as Montreal.

So, today
I'll just speak from that perspective.

So, Montreal corresponds to the unceded
territory of the Kanien'kéha people,

and the name of this territory
in Kanien'kéha is Tiohtià:ke,

which means broken in two since
this is an island

that's crossed by two rivers
and has been a gathering place

for many First Nations
people and continues to be so.

And we acknowledge
that our acknowledgment is faulty

and that land acknowledgments in
general are very fraught.

But as hosts of this event,
we still want to express gratitude

to the original hosts of this land
and these waters, the Kanien'kéha people

and remind ourselves
of the material relations and histories

that enable our offline lives
and this virtual gathering to happen.

And I'm sure today's conversation
will offer insightful

perspectives on these issues.

Yeah, regularly.

We also have here Tracy

Tidgwell, who I would like to acknowledge
and send all the good vibes to Vernada,

her cat is not having the best time.

So, now let's turn to our guest, and today

we will have a conversation
about the exhibition Invento o Cais

at Sesc Niterói, curated by Julia

Naidin, Fernando Codeço and Daniel 
Toledo, which showcases works by 14

artists from CasaDuna’s residencies 
in Atafona Beach,

one of the world's most climate
vulnerable regions in Rio de Janeiro.

Through reflections of marine erosion,
the artworks

explore the environment, collective
and process based perspective

reinterpreting erosion,
not just as destruction,

but as a catalyst for new ways of seeing,
adapting and acting in the world.

Joining the conversation are curators
Julia Naidin, and Fernando Codeço,

as well as researcher Sérgio Pereira Andrade,
a professor

in the Department of Arts and Culture
of Theater Studies at the University

of Amsterdam in the Netherlands.

We also have Shauna Janssen,
professor of performance

creation in the Department of Theater 
of Concordia University of Montreal,

and Laura Levin, director
and a professor,

from Hemispheric Encounters,
from York University.

So please, Fernando, Julia,
tell us more about all this wonderful

project and all yours, welcome everybody.

Okay.

So, good afternoon to you all.

I'm Julia, I will try to speak in English,
but if I have any problems,

we have Firmo here to help us.

First, I'd like also to thank you all

for receiving us
to talk about the exposition.

It's a joy
for us to be able to share this with you.

We were really happy with the result

of this exposition,
and we think that it

is a way of showing you parts of the work
that we've been doing there.

In the more concrete,

how can I say, visible

way, so

we can, we can just start

rolling the

the PowerPoint.

This is a great introduction

for you to know that in the last year
we received

more than 16 artists and researchers
there in Atafona

sharing interests

in thinking about how arts

(IN PORTUGUESE interference)

(IN PORTUGUESE interference) in some territories

and also to be able to communicate

about the situation,
expanding the narratives

that's not really

localize it in
the territory to amplify this,

this debate.

So, for this exposition,

we made a selection of artists,

and, especially from some specific groups
that have been there.

One specific with Daniela Toledo in 2022

and another one with Hernández

It was on visual erosions, in 2018

and also with a group of

a school of arts in Rio

that's called Escola Sem Sítio, 
we can translate

maybe as "School of Non-place", in 2019.

So, we will show you a bit of 14 works

that we'd decided to arrange
in this exposition.

So, Fernando, if you can just pass again.

As a methodology of work there,

we always try to

put ourselves as mediations

in between the artist
and the territory

as we were living there
for the last seven years.

So, we receive them.

And most of all, we,

we put

our focus on a experience with the ambiance,
with the atmosphere, with the erosion,

and also with the wood part
of the environment,

of the pleasure that the environment
still can offer there.

So, our mediation focused on listening

to the people who lived there, and who deal

with erosion, and to learn

living with the erosion, and to adapt to

the climate crisis that the territory

has been living with for the last 17 years.

So we have
there people who already lost

not one house,
but sometimes five houses, seven houses.

And how do people adapt to this and create
a conviviality with this process?

We think there's a,

there's some same kind of pedagogical experience
in this

conviviality

with erosion,

and we think that this is

an important message
for artists to receive.

So, our work
there, as you will be able to see,

it's not focus on only works in

a special,

separate ambiance
for the artist to create,

but also in the, in the beach,

in the sea, in the river, with people.

It's what we like to think

as a contextual art, environmental

art that is created and builded,
in the context,

not in solitude experience,

so there you have some images
of those experiences,

of walking around,
and just feeling the territory.

We believe a lot
in the kind of information

that the experience can bring

to the creative process.

So, Fernando, you can pass again, please.

There is an image of some process
of artists.

It's one image of inside the house,
as you can see.

But then you can see
also some of the collections

that artists used to do in the beach.

In the
the right side, you can see those small...

a word in English that I don't know is 
("Brick" WORD IN PORTUGUESE), Firmo.

The small

things that people use to buy houses.

And when the houses are destroyed
by the process

of erosion with the sea.

The sea and the erosion process,

do some sculpturing, this word

that I miss. ( "Brick" PORTUGUESE WORD)

Is the basis of the houses.

Brick, yes. Thank you.

And yes, so

there you can see,
you can have an estimate of time

that the brick is rolling

in the sea, and in the beach.

And we have different sizes of these bricks.

So it's a

it's an interesting process
that one of the artists

made, not only him,
but it's an interesting process

to think about how time processes 
destruction also.

And in the other side, we have an artist

that worked a lot photographing, and after

making collages, with the

I don't know if collage

is the right word,
but making together

different photographs,
cutting and rearranging to

to think differently about the images
and the imagination that can,

that can be created
when we reorganize the images.

So, you can pass.

There were in a

in a specific place.

It's a bar, and also atelie,
and also a house.

Where lived a

great friend of ours, Nico.

And his place was amazing
because he created, he lived there.

It was, his house

was the bar where he sells drinks,
but there

he works with the material of the land,

as well, to build

a really specific place
totally created by him.

And he also has this conception

of creating with what the earth gives,

with what the sea brings,

and re-imaginating functions

and images with all that,

most of the time, people see only as garbage.

So, it was a specific place

that we normally take the artist
there to amplify

their perspectives of art

and what we can use

to recreate the materials.

So, you can go, Fer, please.

There

is Daniele Toledo, which is also an artist

and was the creator exposition

there, he has written "future" in the sand.

But what seems to be the sand there, in
this image,

was actually the rest of a street.

How can I say this word in English?

Also, (CONCRETO PORTUGUESE WORD).

Yes, concrete of the street.

It used to be a street,
but the sea has already destroyed.

This specific area used to have like

four kilometers ahead.

And now what is happened in this beach

is that all the city is going backwards.

As the sea advances in the city,

The city is building,
rebuilding itself back,

like the sea came, and the

the constructions go backwards.

And there, I don't know, if you can see

this area where we have a limit
between the sand

and where it's written "future".

So, it's like a catastrophic image "future",

but also invites us to think about

"future."

And what can we do in this case.

But is a work that Daniel

have been doing in different places

and he's been thinking about this as a

as a crisis, as a problematic
and he's been reaching this

in so many spaces.

And there, he chooses this one.

And I think it was a specific work.

It was not what is in its position but

we choose to show to you

because of this limited experience.

That these were written in
this place, can bring to us.

You can

go ahead, Fernando, please.

There you have some experience of

video works that were there,

in the image above, is Fernanda Branco, and

she stayed there repeatedly, with these

roots of trees

and did a kind of dance

where she goes backwards
and then she got into this tree

and then

she danced in this root

and we have a video of this performance
in the exposition

and it's a powerful video.

Maybe you can see it in another moment,
if you'd like

we can talk to her and maybe send to you,

because it's a kind of fusion
between

between the body and the root,

with the sea that came in the root,
while she was there.

So, it's really sensitive work, as well.

You can pass, Fer, please.

This is inside Nico's house,
as you can see.

I was telling you that he built everything
and each small part of this bar

was created by him with any material
that you can imagine.

Like, there's no limits to

what is a basis for a creation.

And there is another residence,
_________, that spend

a few days with us there
and made some performance

in this bar.

And then ______ was able

to take some photos
and in the exposition we

we could put these photos in there,
in a (Wallpaper in PORTUGUESE).

I don't know if you know,
I need help to translate (Wallpaper in PORTUGUESE).

There's word for it in English.

"Wallpaper."

Wallpaper, maybe.

Thank you, Mari.

I think it's wheat based-

"Wheat based posters."

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

Wheat based posters. (PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

There's no point to

maintain the structure 
and the integrity of the work.

It's to be able to do fast

and it can be destroyed fast as well.

And there was some good images

in this
that we can put in the exposition, also.

So, Fer, you can move.

There is

Mariana Moraes who just joined
the meeting with us

helping with the translation and
she was doing

this is performance

with- I don't know this word, as well.

(PORTUGUSE WORD), who can help me?

Is a material of the fishermen that they use to-

"Fish net"

Yeah.

It's the traditional way

in which fishermen work, not like the big

structure of fishing.

Fish net, yes.

And also Mariana,
after this performance,

in the other side of the screen,
you can see the process

of the video performance that she made there

in 2022.

And this video went to the exposition.

Not the performance with the fish net,

but also you can see the ambiance.

And we wanted to show you a bit of the

the visual of the environment there

and how we always are trying to

to make the works,

being created in the territory,

not in a isolated form.

You can pass, Fer, please.

Okay, there is Tetsuya,

he is also a video artist

and he works with

old films and

there in this image that you can see

he was burying
the film in the sand,

"burying", like (Bury in PORTUGUESE).

And then the sand,
and though

the small animals and different lives

in the sand interfere in the film

and after he processes this and passes

this film in the the exposition.

So, you have a very specific image

as results of these and he worked there-

This image is in the sand with the sea
interfering, as well, as you can see.

But he also put the film

inside the river for a few days

and then it was passed by the fishes,

the vegetals, I don't know-

Everything in the sea,
the animal life

that interfere in the film
and then is beautiful to see the results.

And we could put in the exposition, also.

Fer, pass it, please.

That's Victor.

He's a painter and he is also an actor.

He used to work 
with the group theater.

But as we know that
he paints, we invited him

also to a residence and ask him to

to make some paintings in houses
that are already abandoned

by the the old

owners.

And there, he's performing.

Performing, with these

I don't know, "flags".

Flags. Yes.

This white flag, that's Carol Valansi,
another,

artist that was with us,

and this day was,
as you can see, a cloudy day,

sort of raining day with strong wind.

So, I don't know, these white flags,
have an

I don't know, something like a peace sign.

But in this environment with no peace,

in an
environment that is always in tension

with the nature,
is always in this conflict

between the building of the city
and the sea

that is coming inside the city
and making this destruction,

So, in this specific context,
this white flag don't bring us

exactly the best energy, but instead,

like a conflict with this symbol.

You can go ahead, Fer, please.

Yeah.

This is a part of the educational program
that we do there, as well.

This is a group of students
that we receive with the teacher

that teaches there and knows the work
and is always in contact

with us to bring some students
for us to talk about this relation

between art and education
and what are the possibilities

of art
to talk about the environmental crisis.

It's hard to talk about what's there.

Even though they lived in this.

Their daily lives is a sensible subject

because, you know,
obviously is the reality.

But it's
a sad subject, it's a trauma.

It's a living trauma,
the daily situation.

So sometimes we discover that

art helps to talk about these

and to deal with the trauma of the

the losing,
losing of houses, losing of memories.

So, this kind of pedagogical function

of art, to talk about environmental
crisis is important to us, as well.

Fer, please.

This is Sarojini,

it's an artist from India, that in the end,

went there to work with us
and make a video performance, as well.

Fernando, pass it, please.

This is part
of a frame of the video work

that I've done there,
I've been working with archives there.

Thinking about

something in between

how can we make a private, archive

a public archive, and vice versa.

With this complex

and political and delicate issue
like what is a private archive

and how public can this be,
to facilitate us

to talk about things that are political. 
That touch everybody.

This lady, she made an archive
following the sea,

destroying this building
in front of her house.

And they made a small documentary about it

which is called "Concrete Sea."

And, Fernando, maybe I think,

Can you put another image,
but I think that maybe,

I can pass the words now.

Yes. For you to talk
about the exposition properly,

and then we can lead to talk a bit more

in the conversation.

I will mute my microphone.

(PORTUGUESE DIALOGUE).

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

(PORTUGUESE)

Make me to think about art history,
about concrete art.

And this material has a 
ghost-like character

That's how I see

the act of fishing.

Fishing has this presence 
in Brazilian history.

It also has an important role

to play in terms of economy.

Paolo Victor also works the that.

As you can see, this is a window that
he found at the beach, in Atafona

Here we can see Daniel's
work in the background.

He also works with material found

in the beach.

So, this is a whole part of 
the exhibition made,

with material found on the beach,

And there is a dialogue
between this materials found on the beach

and with the traditional and modern

modern works.

Daniel also works with collages.

He uses wood.

You can see some of them in the background

and he grows them.

He uses the plastic
from pop bottles to

to make this montage.

We can see here some video work.

This is part of the video

that's part of the exhibition.

We'll also see some of Isabella's work.

We'll see them in more detail later.

Here, you can see some of her work.

This is a type of root,
but it's actually made of latex.

This is the one that you see

towards the center of the photo.

There's something else in the background
that has a more aggressive character.

It's made of glass and in clay.

Beside her work,
you can see Tais's work here.

This is work made in a studio.

The goal is to bring the atmosphere, parts

of the landscape
that they saw and tried to capture.

You can see Luciano's
photos up on the wall.

This is part of the meeting with Luciano's

and Nico's bar.

This is Rafael's work,

and that's Cara's work.

So, this was a very quick
walk through the exhibition,

but now we can
look at them in more detail.

So, this is Daniel's installation

Here, the detail shows how 
he added these pieces

together using a plastic bottle.

All the elements were found on the beach.

This is my work.

This is how I attach the net.

It shows the idea of creating

these geometric forms

and adding the Brazilian
neo-concretism.

This material is very abundant.

The the nets fall apart

and the fishermen just throw them out.

I have made a lot of work with it
because this is the kind of material

that's very dangerous for marine life

when it's back in the ocean.

So, there is an attempt to

to take care of this material,
to repurpose them.

Now, the crabs.

There is a relationship to life

and to how erosion comes in.

So, all I'm doing is putting it together.

I'm finding the bricks and these
iron broads and I'm putting them together.

So, they kind of remind us
of these creatures,

creatures that live in the
the mangroves in Atafona.

This is Paulo,
beside the window that he painted.

The work remounts to the idea
that the sea is coming back,

it's a popular idea with the locals,
especially with the fisher people.

This idea that the sea is reclaiming

what belongs to it.

In fact,

that piece of land at some point, already
belonged to the sea.

Scientifically speaking, that's also true.

So that's what it says.

The sea is coming back.

You can see this in the painting.

This is also beautiful work
that was present.

This is Rafael's work.

He organized these pieces of bricks

on top of notebooks.

He invites us to think about

a type of geological writing.

Also, about the process of the artist.

We are creating a language

through the erosion.

This is part of the reference.

This is Isabella's work.

You can see it in a close up,
very delicate work.

She uses glass, ceramics, latex.

And here is the same work,
from a different perspective.

This is Tetsuya's work.

This is a film that he collected
from an old file.

He buried this on the sand.

Money sack sand.

This is a specific kind of sand
that's present there.

It's a low radiation sand.

Let's watch this now.

This is Thais work,

also a very intricate, very delicate work.

Very beautiful, it's very alive.

She creates this dynamic between salt,

glass and iron.

The salt kind of erodes
the iron that holds up the glass.

You can see this and the image,
the one on the left was when she

first put it together.

And this
is later, showing the corrosion

that salt caused in the work.

This is Joao Racy's work.

It's a still video, still image.

He filmed the window of a house

that's actually being buried by the sand.

There's a little bit of movement

in the plants here,

So, we created this,

we had a TV in the back
to bring by this idea of a window.

This is Caroline's work,

We also saw this

during Julia's presentation.

She has a huge flag that she brings
to the meeting place

between the river and the sea.

She made this work here
by creating these stamps,

postal stamps.

It reminds a little bit of a video, right,

because you can see the flag movement
along the way.

And here is the flag.

We installed it
on the outside of the exhibition,

Here, can see Lu by Lu's work.

This is her meeting with makeup.

And then we paste post again

here she glued them on the outside.

She talked a bit about her meeting

with Nico in Atafona.

Lu who is an activist, a trans artist,

a black person,

and she adds all of that to her work,

as a trans woman in Brazil.

It's important to her

to share these moments,

moments
where she can express her artistry,

her subjectivity,

and she was able to share a lot of her

thinking with us.

Here the videos,

we are not going to be able
to watch them now,

but I'd like to tell you, here
the videos that are present there.

Fernando Branco's video.

Julia talked about it, Julia's video.

Mariana's and Sarojini's.

So, there you have.

I tried to stay on point.

So, we have enough time to talk.

I hope this gives you a general view

of the exhibition

We had to choose.

Through many artists
that came through Casa Duna.

I hope that this gives you
an idea of the work that we did.

I'd like to thank you.

And I want to open the floor
so we can continue the conversation.

It's my turn?

Okay.

Thank you for what you brought to us
today.

Fernando, Julia.

I have had the opportunity to visit

Atafona with both of you.

I was able to witness
the work that you developed there.

I think it's important

to share this to this
group that's with us today.

I'm reinforcing
something that I see in your work, right?

There's this persistence.

You've been there for eight years now.

You've been there since 2017,

so it's been eight years.

in the work.

I know how important this is to you

and you know,

and this is also a counterposition
as to other works

that visit Atafona that come and go

or make a spectacle out of it.

This is an erosion process

that's 60 years long.

It has been sped up

due to industrial activity
in the area.

There is a violent process that's been

getting aggravated

through interventions of abuses

on the environment.

And this shows the many ways that artists

and art can also produce,

they can also use some of this process
for their work.

I think what we're trying to do
is to show

an option to think about a continuity,

a process of creating connections.

You have this work

of environmental awareness
with the community.

You work with the Landless Movement

in Brazil.

Oh, I'm sorry.

There is a lady that's an activist.

I forget her name.

Please forgive me.

Yes. Yeah, I can hear you.

I'm sorry.

There was there was a pause there.

So, yes.

You've been working on different
fronts, right?

Academic research, art, art research.

You were working on your postdoctorate.

You work with a theater group,

Grupo ______, a Russian group.

But I have a question.

My question is related to this choice

to not make a spectacle

of the erosion process.

It's a choice not to romanticize
this process.

Can you talk about that?

How do you see this process

of avoiding

making a spectacle

or to avoid romanticizing that.

The event

I create _____

right, that uses the line from the song

of creating something,
of recreating something,

something that needs
to be constantly re-created.

Then, there is an idea to keep creating

and recreating.

There is

there are
many, many layers.

And this erosion is very symbolic.

How do you understand
this non romanticizing,

this erosion process, this not

looking at this process
as something exotic,

but also not making it,

you know, a doomsday kind of scenario.

Can you talk about that?

Shall we comment on this?

I guess it's better to
to hear all the questions first

and then we'll answer.

at the end.

Hi everyone,

Hi, yes.

I'll be brief.

Can everybody hear me?

Great.

Okay.

Well, I mean, I wanted to,

first of all, say thank you to Julia
and Fernando

for presenting this

amazing work and,

you know, maybe picking up a little bit on

what Sergio is commenting on about
how do you do this

work and be in community and not

so into romanticizing the work.

And I mean, I don't know if I have much
as much of a question or a comment,

but what I was struck by is this tension

and drawing attention and mobilizing

publics and community
around this tension of

of these culture-nature,
nature-culture dynamics, and

especially with some of the earlier
work you were sharing, Julia,

kind of
thinking about, even just from the images

and through this screen,
there's this, that some of these artworks

are conjuring

feelings of tenderness
for me

ritual mourning.

And I started to think about, like this
kind of process of ritual, of witnessing

that's happening on the site as well.

So I'm just wondering if, that for me

has something to do
with kind of countering,

making the spectacle and,

and kind of thinking about this witnessing
or these actions.

I don't know if that's
what you've been witnessing

'Cause you're so embedded and embodying
that site, and have been for a long time.

So, I think it's it's a
it's a question of thinking about

do you see this work as a kind of ritual
or mourning or witnessing?

And I think when we see images of 
the water, you know, immediately,

you start to kind of feel like
we're in the rhythm of this erosion

and witnessing in this kind of a
still life form and in the documentation.

So, I don't know if that's really
a question as much as it is a comment.

I really find the work
in the project really moving.

So, I wonder
if you could speak a little bit to that,

and the other question
I had was to what degree the locals

and the community are embedded
and working with-

If you could say a bit
more about the importance of their agency

in the work and hosting,

I guess, outsiders coming into

to work in the site.

No, it's okay.

I was expecting us to sort of ask
the question and answer,

ask the question and answer.

So, I think, I'll be brief
if we're going in this way,

I'll also say thank you
for sharing this with us

and congratulations.

This is really moving

and amazing work that I think
we can all learn so much from.

I'm really interested in

something that Fernando said.

We were talking about creating a language

for the erosion and

and it made me think about the question

of what role
performance plays in your work.

You know, a question,

what I keep coming back to
because the presentation of the work

in this way, in this form we're seeing it
in a kind of an installation format.

But you're also describing dance,

the woman who is dancing
and the root of a tree, for example,

I'm also familiar
with some of your other work.

That's more theater based
and had the pleasure of engaging

in a workshop that Fernando led
that was theater based as well.

So, I'm kind of interested in

what role performance plays
in creating

a kind of language for the erosion,
if it does at all, and

what can

performance do that other art forms
can't or is performance

not the most useful term in thinking

about this particular body of work
that you're sharing with us?

Just interested
in the specificity of artworks

and the language that they create
in the context of environmental collapse.

And I think that for me,
that also goes back to something

that Julia was talking about, that
I found really moving, which is thinking

about the pedagogy part of this work

and Julia, you were talking about

how art in the context
of environmental crisis

can help us with dealing
with the trauma of loss,

the trauma of losing tangible things
that mean a great deal to us, and

and also the loss of memory
eventually as well.

So, I see these two things
as kind of operating in conversation

with one another.

I hear the idea of creating a language

as being in conversation, with this idea
of helping people to deal with trauma.

And I was interested in hearing you talk
a little bit more about all of that.

And then secondarily,
just because Hemispheric Encounters

is a transnational project, thinking about
whether this language is site specific

or whether it could be transferable to
other contexts of environmental collapse.

You know, in North America, for example,
we've seen really stark

images, for example, of L.A.

and severe environmental destruction.

It's a totally different context,
totally different situation.

But we are talking about climate disaster
in another context.

So, can
we think about a language

that travels as well?

These are my thoughts.

I think I can answer better that way.

Sergio brought up a lot of problems.

You brought up paradoxes,

struggles, obstacles.

I think a reason to be

there is to work on those paradoxes.

How can we build,

how can it build their work that works

with the language
that deals with destruction,

something that goes 
beyond a negative look.

But how does this destruction

affect other things being produced?

Someone leaves the house

because the sea is approaching.

Someone else will come in, or within
a house

will create a bar, something that
works during the summers.

And now
this is something new.

It creates new life.

It created new possibilities.

This is something
that might have been considered

gone, wasted.

This idea

of romanticize, of making a spectacle 
for this.

It's definitely a challenge,
we have been there for years.

We host artists that stay for a week
and then they move on,

they can create work,
but we have no control over.

And that's

why our focus there is the mediation
between the artists and the land

so that these artists
can hear the people,

so that their experience
there will impact them

in a sensitive way

in their work later on.

They may develop
something that will sell or not.

You know what?

We're not worried about that.

We're more worried about the learning
process that this will have later on.

Obviously, we have

no control over what they will do

out the information that they 
gathered there.

We are always running meetings

so people can can talk about
their experiences

to the artists.

So, I don't have a better answer.

I'm from Rio.

I was shocked when I arrived in

Atafona.

The teaching experience

needs to go through living with the loss

and to create within it.

It's an existential condition.

The pedagogy is not specific to a content,

the environmental loss,

it touches all of us.

If we are people

that take the environmental problems
seriously.

And yeah.

In Brazil, we are feeling it.

I believe we'll all have to deal with this
loss.

The material loss,
the loss of a certain lifestyle,

lots of loss.

How does the community receive this?

Well, very well.

They're often very happy about it.

Believe it or not,

this is not a topic
that receives a lot of attention.

But we moved there.

And so we we became neighbors.

And that's how people see this.

The work,
our work is to bring attention to this,

to put the spotlight on it,

to create a dialogue around it.

I think performance has a special role

in the work that we develop.

I think it's the context,
I think is the very nature of performance

that allows us to use it

Performance is a language
that's very important

to us.

We, as a theatre group,

we were always very
linked to the performance.

Our works
were always rooted in performance.

You know, it might be on the beach,

it might be some archive work.

It was a type of theatre
that was always was born

from the territory.

And I'm going to wrap up.

Sorry, there are lots of questions.
I still want to make room for Fernando.

I'd like to touch upon the idea 
of the end of the world.

There is an important thinker in Brazil.

__________?

He has said that the world has ended
many times.

Many worlds have.

So, when we go over there,

what we see is that
this is not the end of "the" world.

It's the end of "a" world.

It's something that will
lead us to a new experience.

It's part of a cycle.

It's not the apocalypse
that will be the end of all of us.

We are going to have to keep dealing
with the

consequences
of our actions, of our explorations,

our way of interacting.

So, it might be more complex
than simply an end,

something that would simply put

an end to our problems.

There is no end.

And the worlds
have been ending for a very long time.

I think Atafona talks about that

and in many ways
it extrapolates, it connects

to many other experiences of ending,

many that we have lived, are living now.

And we'll continue to live.

I think it has an existential pedagogy.

It's sad and happy at the same time.

It brings a sadness and a

melancholy in its nature.

I think it's a very rich experience

to live in that territory,
something very valuable.

That's it for me.

I'm going to try to add something to what

Julia said.

I'm going to start with Sergio's points.

It seems to me

that when we work with an art
and we try to engage or

we try to be environmentally responsible,

we don't really have an answer,

but there is something we know,

we are going to need to build alliances.

We're going to have to compromise.

We're going to have to get involved
with the territories.

We're going to have to spend time there.

There are some points that we know

are just vital so that the 
work will make sense in a way

so that they will have some sort of impact
for the people that live there.

We lived there,

but we chose to live there.

However, there are people
that live there because

they have nowhere else to go.

We know that our presence
there is different.

We're always going to be foreigners
there in one way or another.

So, how can our work
become relevant to them?

We don't know.

But we understand that

there is art that doesn't care about that.

There is art that is for producing

the exploitation processes,

but we are there

and it is our job to sometimes
point the finger and say, "hey,

what you're doing here
is this", like you're not being any better?

Excuse me,

there is no sound from them.

It's back.

Fernando's sound has stopped.

There is this similar place called

_____ that.... I'm sorry.

Unfortunately,
I can't hear Fernando's audio.

So, we need to be aware.

Art can have many different ways,

many different ways to interact.

I'm sorry.

I don't know
what's happening. I'm going to.

Yeah, It's better now.

So, where should I go back to?

Carry on from where you were.

It seems to me
that there is nuance that we can

we can notice.

There is artwork.

Fernando's sound is frozen again.

Well, I mean,

I think we had

at least a good summary of the response.

The connection was erosionated.

I mean, maybe it's the moment

to close this space and we can

or should wait a little bit?

Yeah, let's wait.

We can wait then.

Yeah, let's wait then.

At least until they are back.

I will send a message

to their phone.

He is saying that both of them

lost their connection.

Let me see what he's saying.

He's typing.

He would try again

via cell phone.

You know,
when we are working hemispherically,

This is always a thing, you know,

the connection, always,

the timezone.

So, we need to have a little, like a

counter acts like, like performative

moments for kind of the intermissions
when people leave.

I think, I would like to nominate Denise

who creates incredible short
puppet shows to have something ready

for future sessions.

So, that the puppet theatre can take over

as we're
waiting for the connection to come back.

It could be a way for us
to organically deal

with the discomfort.

Oh, see.

That's exactly.

I also nominate Jess.

Jess, can also provide...

Here's Julia.

Julia's back.

She's back.

Sorry.

Let me see if Fernando

gets back.

If no, he will come here.

One moment.

Looks like he is

Fernando?

Can you hear me?

But how erosion effect that-

It's the end of the world.

The beginning of the world.

We were talking
a little bit about the relationship

-it has dimensions that

aren't always related to

an activist

commitment,

The _______
shows that commitment.

We have other work.

Some work that are more territorial

such as a moving museum.

The idea is to create a direct dialogue

with the community

We want to bring our works to
to the community,

to the fisherfolk community.

But we need to be watchful.

We need to be always thinking
about this.

It doesn't matter whether I work

with painting.

Is there any way that I
can make this work echo

with this place?

So, this answering Sergio's question.

Now talking about Laura's point,
I talked about the idea

of creating a language
that's connected to erosion.

There's something that we learn along the way,
we are raised thinking that you know that

the artist is some sort of genius

that is creating something
so special

and so different.

There's a

that ego plays a big role.

But what we understand
now is that the work

is to work with, is to create
a partnership.

Of course, we are still authors

in some sort of way, but we share

the authorship with the territory.

We know that this work isn't simply

the product of an artistic genius.

We are listening to
what the erosion is producing,

to what those lands are telling us.

We are working with 
some sort of interpreter.

I think the idea of translation

in arts is also something
that's really interesting.

You can also understand
art from this perspective.

Something that's beyond what's human.

Art doesn't belong only to 
the human perspective.

We could think about art in this way,
and this type of art

that we are working with, has something
that actually exists in this

in this meeting point,
that it exists

within these environmental
processes.

That exists within the senses.

I don't know that there is a way
to create this language

aside from this relationship.

But I think once created,

yes, that language can expand.

Yes, we are working locally,
but we understand that these are global

topics.

They are particular to Atafona.

Atafona is reflecting questions
that exist in other places.

I think that is reflected
in the works.

I may be missing something.

But in general terms, I think that's that.

That's what I had to share with you.

These are my thoughts.

Now what do we do?

Turn your camera on and clap.

I don't know
is there anyone here

that would like to say something? 
Because it's just myself, Laura and Shauna.

But maybe there is someone else here
that would like to make a comment.

But I'd like to open the space.

Everybody is too shy to say anything.

It's fine.

No problem.

Yeah, I think we have to wrap up,

Otherwise, we

we would need a back up for Firmo

who has been doing an amazing job.

Thank you, Firmo.

Great job.

Always.

Thank you, thank you, everyone.

Thank you for this opportunity.

It's so important to us.

It's so important to be part of this.

I don't think I

I thanked everyone from The Coop.

We are truly very greatful,

for this opportunity
to share this with you.

And I hope we can continue this dialogue.

It's such important work.

That's it, we're very happy about it.

I am going to take the mic now to

to thank in the name of this
Hemispheric Encounters, that is this large network of people.

Fernando is our post-doc member.

He just finished his project

And I'd like to thank him.

He gave us the opportunity to meet
the CasaDuna work.

I'd like to thank for this partnership

and I hope that we can keep working.

That's it.

Thanks you all.

Thank you, everyone. Thank you.