0:00:00.634,0:00:04.143
Trevor Noah: Got a call from my manager,[br]and I was in the back of a taxi,

0:00:04.167,0:00:07.296
and he said, "Hey, how would you like[br]to host The Daily Show?"

0:00:07.320,0:00:09.015
Adam Grant: That's Trevor Noah.

0:00:09.039,0:00:10.284
TN: My mind was blown.

0:00:10.308,0:00:13.732
And I still don't think I understood[br]the gravity of the entire show.

0:00:13.756,0:00:16.629
And I remember I got out of the taxi[br]and my knees were weak,

0:00:16.653,0:00:19.390
and I probably would have fainted[br]if I was just walking.

0:00:19.414,0:00:21.668
I'm glad I was sitting down[br]when I got the news.

0:00:21.692,0:00:24.604
And yeah, and that's when it happened.

0:00:24.628,0:00:28.009
AG: When Trevor got that call,[br]his worklife changed.

0:00:28.033,0:00:31.247
He'd spent a lot of his career[br]working solo as a stand-up comedian

0:00:31.271,0:00:33.969
in clubs and theaters,[br]mostly in South Africa.

0:00:33.993,0:00:37.072
But now he works with a full[br]creative team in New York City.

0:00:37.096,0:00:40.706
Four days a week, they make a show[br]that millions of people watch,

0:00:40.730,0:00:42.801
and I want to know how they pull that off,

0:00:42.825,0:00:46.660
because usually, big groups[br]are where creativity goes to die.

0:00:47.160,0:00:53.755
(Music)

0:00:53.779,0:00:57.583
I'm Adam Grant, and this is WorkLife,[br]my podcast with TED.

0:00:57.905,0:00:59.929
I'm an organizational psychologist.

0:00:59.953,0:01:02.651
I study how to make work not suck.

0:01:02.675,0:01:06.658
In this show, I'm inviting myself in[br]to some truly unusual places

0:01:06.682,0:01:10.205
where they've mastered something[br]I wish everyone knew about work.

0:01:10.229,0:01:13.189
Today, creativity under the gun,

0:01:13.213,0:01:16.698
and how you can be more creative[br]in whatever you do.

0:01:16.722,0:01:19.175
Thanks to Warby Parker[br]for sponsoring this episode.

0:01:19.199,0:01:22.486
(Music)

0:01:22.510,0:01:24.193
When you have a creative challenge,

0:01:24.217,0:01:28.094
the natural starting point is to bring[br]a group of people together to brainstorm.

0:01:28.118,0:01:31.207
Workplaces have relied[br]on brainstorming for years.

0:01:31.231,0:01:33.406
There's just one small problem:

0:01:33.430,0:01:34.659
it doesn't work.

0:01:35.674,0:01:39.358
We actually have decades of evidence[br]that brainstorming backfires.

0:01:39.382,0:01:42.477
Groups produce fewer ideas and worse ideas

0:01:42.501,0:01:44.485
than the same people working alone.

0:01:44.509,0:01:46.048
(Music)

0:01:46.072,0:01:49.436
So what is it about group brainstorming[br]that stifles creativity?

0:01:49.460,0:01:53.500
First, people silence themselves[br]because they're afraid of looking stupid.

0:01:53.524,0:01:57.531
Second, some people silence others[br]by dominating the conversation.

0:01:57.555,0:02:00.738
And third, everyone just supports[br]the boss's favorite idea.

0:02:02.078,0:02:04.999
But The Daily Show[br]has overcome these problems.

0:02:05.023,0:02:07.873
They've cracked the code[br]of group creativity,

0:02:07.897,0:02:10.190
and I'm going in to find out how.

0:02:10.214,0:02:14.459
(Music)

0:02:14.483,0:02:16.140
It's 9am on a Tuesday.

0:02:16.164,0:02:17.505
(Overlapping voices)

0:02:17.529,0:02:20.831
Walking in, it's clear that this show[br]is a massive machine.

0:02:20.855,0:02:24.332
On any given day, over a hundred[br]staff and crew members are working on it.

0:02:24.910,0:02:27.292
But I want to focus[br]on one part of that machine:

0:02:27.316,0:02:28.688
the writers' room.

0:02:28.712,0:02:31.084
It's where a creative team[br]of writers, producers,

0:02:31.108,0:02:33.640
and on-camera talent come together.

0:02:33.664,0:02:37.403
Being in a writers' room is sort of[br]an organizational psychologist's dream,

0:02:37.427,0:02:39.212
at least it's one of mine,

0:02:39.236,0:02:41.547
and The Daily Show is giving me[br]backstage access

0:02:41.571,0:02:44.140
to see how they start the day[br]with a blank page

0:02:44.164,0:02:46.775
and end up with 22 minutes[br]of great comedy.

0:02:46.799,0:02:48.204
(Overlapping voices)

0:02:48.228,0:02:50.611
The room is packed with about 30 people.

0:02:50.635,0:02:52.467
Some of them are sitting on couches,

0:02:52.491,0:02:54.394
lots of them are sitting on the floor,

0:02:54.418,0:02:56.346
and some of them even have their dogs.

0:02:56.370,0:02:59.234
They're starting to kick around ideas[br]before Trevor arrives.

0:02:59.258,0:03:00.774
(Overlapping voices)

0:03:00.798,0:03:03.124
It's November, and the big news of the day

0:03:03.148,0:03:06.234
is Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore.

0:03:06.258,0:03:08.812
There are a few weeks left[br]before the special election

0:03:08.836,0:03:10.273
to replace Jeff Sessions.

0:03:10.924,0:03:12.718
We all know how that played out,

0:03:12.742,0:03:15.653
but at the time, it was great material.

0:03:15.677,0:03:19.567
They start off by playing clips[br]from yesterday's news, and then they riff.

0:03:19.591,0:03:22.884
News Clip: ... people are saying[br]Roy Moore was banned from the mall.

0:03:22.908,0:03:24.420
(Laughter)

0:03:24.444,0:03:27.466
Allison MacDonald, supervising producer:[br]The fact that the mall

0:03:27.490,0:03:29.624
has higher standards[br]than the US Senate ...

0:03:29.648,0:03:32.108
News clip: Overnight,[br]Moore denied the accusations.

0:03:32.132,0:03:35.036
(Clip continues) Roy Moore: I never did[br]what she said I did.

0:03:35.060,0:03:38.512
I don't even know the woman.[br]I don't know anything about her.

0:03:38.536,0:03:42.137
I don't even know[br]where the restaurant is or was.

0:03:42.161,0:03:44.808
Max Brown, supervising producer:[br]He's like, "I deny it.

0:03:44.832,0:03:46.000
It's absolutely false.

0:03:46.024,0:03:47.706
I have no idea what it is about."

0:03:47.730,0:03:50.690
But with every accuser, it's like,[br]"He was here every night."

0:03:50.714,0:03:53.213
We have a picture of him[br]on the wall that he signed.

0:03:53.237,0:03:56.380
Josh Johnson, writer: Sooner or later[br]with accusers, he'll be like,

0:03:56.404,0:03:59.126
"I'm not even from Alabama.[br]Never been here before."

0:03:59.150,0:04:00.451
(Laughter)

0:04:00.475,0:04:04.855
Steve Bodow, executive producer:[br]I am not Roy Moore.

0:04:04.879,0:04:08.339
AG: The room is starting to feel[br]like a really crowded family dinner.

0:04:08.363,0:04:10.405
Everyone is jumping into the conversation.

0:04:10.429,0:04:13.227
Zhubin Parang, head writer:[br]I wonder if his favorite booth

0:04:13.251,0:04:17.402
has his name carved into it,[br]like, "Roy Moore's seat," yeah.

0:04:17.426,0:04:21.171
"I never got pancakes and waffles there,"[br]and restaurant is like,

0:04:21.195,0:04:24.639
"That is that's what we call[br]the Roy Moore Special."

0:04:24.663,0:04:29.114
Jimmy Don, senior producer: His picture's[br]on the wall for the pancake challenge.

0:04:29.138,0:04:30.566
AG: The first thing I noticed

0:04:30.590,0:04:33.305
is that the room[br]is full of creative bursts.

0:04:33.329,0:04:37.052
Believe it or not, there's a name for that[br]in the psychology of creativity:

0:04:37.076,0:04:38.416
it's called burstiness.

0:04:38.440,0:04:40.789
(Music)

0:04:40.813,0:04:43.865
Burstiness is like[br]the best moments in improv jazz.

0:04:43.889,0:04:47.662
Someone plays a note,[br]someone else jumps in with a harmony,

0:04:47.686,0:04:51.933
and pretty soon, you have[br]a collective sound that no one planned.

0:04:51.957,0:04:54.600
Most groups never get to that point,

0:04:54.624,0:04:57.156
but you know burstiness when you see it.

0:04:57.180,0:05:01.558
At The Daily Show, the room just literally[br]sounds like it's bursting with ideas.

0:05:01.582,0:05:04.141
You can hear it in the Roy Moore joke.

0:05:04.165,0:05:07.173
ZP: I think ... Oh, here we go.[br]What's up, man?

0:05:07.197,0:05:09.150
AG: Trevor Noah just walked in the room.

0:05:09.174,0:05:11.515
ZP: We're just watching[br]and laughing at Roy Moore,

0:05:11.539,0:05:13.908
going to the mall,[br]hanging around until ...

0:05:13.932,0:05:16.509
TN: Getting banned from the mall?

0:05:16.533,0:05:19.277
TN: That's a pretty extreme[br]detail that they left out.

0:05:19.301,0:05:20.618
ZP: While you're the DA.

0:05:20.642,0:05:24.320
TN: Even the mall cop[br]is like, "Look, Mr. DA, I know."

0:05:24.344,0:05:26.709
MB: It's really hard[br]to get banned by the mall.

0:05:26.733,0:05:29.439
Like, if you are a bad teenager,[br]you don't get banned.

0:05:29.463,0:05:32.065
Dan McCoy, writer: I like the way[br]he was making excuses

0:05:32.089,0:05:35.249
now about these bans.[br]"No, I was stealing lipstick."

0:05:35.273,0:05:37.274
(Laughter)

0:05:37.298,0:05:39.828
AG: So right there, my ears perk up.

0:05:39.852,0:05:43.843
The burstiness is back,[br]even with Trevor in the room.

0:05:43.867,0:05:46.573
Everyone's throwing out[br]half-baked ideas to their boss.

0:05:47.120,0:05:50.469
How comfortable are you[br]just brainstorming on the fly

0:05:50.493,0:05:54.095
in front of the most powerful[br]person in your workplace?

0:05:54.119,0:05:56.539
If you have a boss[br]who is constantly judging you,

0:05:56.563,0:05:58.761
that would be a nightmare.

0:05:58.785,0:06:01.499
You'd be afraid of getting[br]it wrong or looking dumb.

0:06:02.578,0:06:04.982
But Trevor sets an inviting tone.

0:06:05.006,0:06:07.372
There's no frenzy, no panic.

0:06:07.396,0:06:09.124
He's guiding the group.

0:06:09.148,0:06:12.663
Although the clock is ticking,[br]he doesn't sound stressed.

0:06:12.687,0:06:15.901
TN: Let's just go down[br]that list. Let's breeze through it.

0:06:15.925,0:06:17.977
AG: The meeting wraps up at 10:30.

0:06:18.001,0:06:20.141
They have an outline for the show.

0:06:20.165,0:06:21.920
Now it's time to divide and conquer.

0:06:22.368,0:06:26.361
The writers only have about two hours[br]before their first drafts are due.

0:06:26.385,0:06:31.424
ZP: So, I need a couple of writers[br]to just a round of the Asia wrap

0:06:31.448,0:06:36.804
and two writers who want[br]to do the Don-Jr-is-an-idiot thing.

0:06:36.828,0:06:39.327
AG: They go off in pairs to write.

0:06:39.351,0:06:43.193
I want to dig in further to find out[br]how they create the ideal conditions

0:06:43.217,0:06:44.612
for burstiness,

0:06:44.636,0:06:47.421
so I tracked down[br]the head writer, Zhubin Parang,

0:06:47.445,0:06:49.683
and senior writer Daniel Radosh.

0:06:49.707,0:06:52.690
AG: Psychologists talk about[br]this pattern they call burstiness,

0:06:52.714,0:06:55.443
which is, how rapidly[br]we're taking turns in conversation

0:06:55.467,0:06:56.887
and interrupting each other.

0:06:56.911,0:06:59.506
There were moments[br]when somebody had a pretty good joke

0:06:59.530,0:07:01.371
and then like four people built on it.

0:07:01.395,0:07:04.681
Daniel Radosh: The main thing[br]is to get the jokes out of the material

0:07:04.705,0:07:06.792
and that's where[br]the burstiness comes from.

0:07:06.816,0:07:09.411
AG: I love how you adopted[br]the language of burstiness

0:07:09.435,0:07:11.499
like that's a normal thing[br]people would say.

0:07:11.523,0:07:12.779
DR: We're improv-focused.

0:07:12.803,0:07:14.652
Whatever you say, that's the new term.

0:07:14.676,0:07:18.453
AG: But let's be clear: not everyone[br]was immediately on board.

0:07:18.477,0:07:22.032
Here are two of the newer writers,[br]Kat Radley and Colleen Werthmann.

0:07:22.540,0:07:24.277
Colleen Werthmann: Burstiness?

0:07:24.301,0:07:27.506
Kat Radley: You come up with that?[br]AG: No, I'm just borrowing it.

0:07:27.530,0:07:29.936
I first learned about burstiness[br]from a colleague.

0:07:29.960,0:07:32.475
Anita Williams Woolley:[br]I'm Anita Williams Woolley.

0:07:32.499,0:07:35.228
I'm an associate professor[br]at Carnegie Mellon University.

0:07:35.252,0:07:40.601
Burstiness is when everybody[br]is speaking and responding to each other

0:07:40.625,0:07:42.419
in a short amount of time

0:07:42.443,0:07:46.815
instead of having it drawn out[br]over a long period of time.

0:07:46.839,0:07:49.868
AG: Anita sees burstiness[br]in all kinds of groups,

0:07:49.892,0:07:51.251
not just at work.

0:07:51.275,0:07:54.425
AWW: I have four older brothers[br]and three kids who are all boys,

0:07:54.449,0:07:56.735
and I joke how this explains my whole life

0:07:56.759,0:07:59.496
because pretty much[br]any dinnertime conversation,

0:07:59.520,0:08:02.083
you can hear me say,[br]"Wait a minute, let me finish."

0:08:02.107,0:08:04.313
There's a lot of burstiness[br]in the conversation

0:08:04.337,0:08:06.463
and a lot of interrupting,

0:08:06.487,0:08:10.908
which seems not to bother them at all[br]but sometimes can drive me crazy.

0:08:10.932,0:08:12.963
AG: Interruptions aren't always rude.

0:08:12.987,0:08:16.058
When you're in a crunch,[br]you want everyone to pitch in fast.

0:08:16.082,0:08:19.915
Anita studied software teams working[br]in different places around the globe.

0:08:19.939,0:08:23.319
She found that the most innovative[br]and productive teams were bursty.

0:08:23.343,0:08:25.311
AWW: The more effective teams

0:08:25.335,0:08:28.350
figured out when their team members[br]were likely to be working

0:08:28.374,0:08:31.650
and they would get online[br]at a similar time

0:08:31.674,0:08:35.619
and start exchanging messages,[br]sending each other code,

0:08:35.643,0:08:39.738
whereas other teams might have[br]communicated just as much

0:08:39.762,0:08:42.611
and engaged in just as much activity

0:08:42.635,0:08:46.166
but kind of more dictated[br]by their own personal schedule,

0:08:46.190,0:08:49.027
and those teams were not as effective.

0:08:49.051,0:08:51.305
AG: Burstiness is a sign[br]that you're not stuck

0:08:51.329,0:08:54.058
in one of those dysfunctional[br]brainstorming sessions.

0:08:54.376,0:08:57.361
It's when a group[br]reaches its creative peak

0:08:57.385,0:09:01.210
because everyone is participating freely[br]and contributing ideas.

0:09:01.234,0:09:05.075
AWW: I don't think that burstiness[br]is unique to creative fields.

0:09:05.099,0:09:09.606
However, I think probably creative fields[br]do really benefit from burstiness.

0:09:09.630,0:09:12.217
The people who are[br]in the conversation are energized

0:09:12.241,0:09:15.574
because when you speak, somebody's[br]going to respond to you right away,

0:09:15.598,0:09:18.472
you know they're listening[br]and then you're listening to them,

0:09:18.496,0:09:23.313
and so it's much easier[br]to exchange ideas and maybe build ideas.

0:09:23.861,0:09:25.987
AG: But of course,[br]burstiness looks different

0:09:26.011,0:09:28.101
when your raw materials[br]aren't bits of code

0:09:28.125,0:09:29.878
but bits of comedy.

0:09:29.902,0:09:33.721
In the writers' room, the burstiness[br]doesn't just happen by accident.

0:09:33.745,0:09:35.157
I asked Trevor Noah about it.

0:09:35.610,0:09:38.117
TN: So, when I'm in a writers' room,

0:09:38.141,0:09:40.640
there are two things[br]that are happening in my head.

0:09:40.664,0:09:44.037
One, I'm looking at what we're going[br]to be doing on the show that day,

0:09:44.061,0:09:48.648
and two, I'm thinking[br]about the room as a comedy room

0:09:48.672,0:09:53.417
and how much laughter[br]it is imbued with in that moment.

0:09:53.441,0:09:56.645
And I know it's extremely superstitious

0:09:56.669,0:09:59.895
and no one can ever prove it[br]or not disprove it,

0:09:59.919,0:10:04.355
but I believe that laughter is absorbed

0:10:04.379,0:10:06.767
just like secondhand cigarette smoke

0:10:06.791,0:10:09.893
into the very fabric[br]of who we are as human beings.

0:10:09.917,0:10:13.464
AG: Watching you in the room this morning,[br]I was intrigued by a few things.

0:10:13.488,0:10:16.019
One, I expected a big change[br]when you walked in,

0:10:16.043,0:10:18.112
and there wasn't a lot that was different,

0:10:18.136,0:10:21.675
which is a sign to me that you've made it[br]incredibly psychologically safe.

0:10:21.699,0:10:23.421
AG: People are not afraid of you.

0:10:23.445,0:10:25.541
TN: Oh, in the room. Oh, that's funny.

0:10:25.565,0:10:27.818
AG: They're not freaked out[br]that you walked in,

0:10:27.842,0:10:30.913
and they're still pitching[br]some pretty half-baked jokes.

0:10:30.937,0:10:33.197
That's called psychological safety.

0:10:33.762,0:10:36.600
It's where you can take risks[br]without feeling afraid.

0:10:37.456,0:10:41.551
Without that sense of safety,[br]creative bursts don't happen.

0:10:41.575,0:10:43.345
People censor themselves.

0:10:43.369,0:10:47.329
TN: Well, I always believed[br]that in any relationship

0:10:47.353,0:10:52.233
where there is someone who is in charge,[br]whether it's in a family, with a parent,

0:10:52.257,0:10:56.305
or whether it's a teacher,[br]whether it's a boss in a work environment,

0:10:56.329,0:11:02.147
really what brings out the best in people[br]in my opinion is a mutual respect.

0:11:02.171,0:11:05.266
I trust that my writers are trying[br]to help me make the best show,

0:11:05.290,0:11:07.789
and they trust that I want[br]to make the funniest show.

0:11:07.813,0:11:11.417
It's taken a long time, but now,[br]when I when I walk into a meeting,

0:11:11.441,0:11:15.100
I'm walking into[br]a continuing conversation.

0:11:15.124,0:11:17.891
AG: Building psychological[br]safety takes time.

0:11:17.915,0:11:20.338
It's something you create[br]a little every day,

0:11:20.362,0:11:22.623
and you can see it in small moments.

0:11:22.647,0:11:25.289
There was one that caught my eye[br]in the writers' room.

0:11:25.313,0:11:30.495
TN: I'm saying that joke you pitched,[br]it was so good, like, even in the room.

0:11:30.519,0:11:32.288
ZP: That was great, that went well.

0:11:32.312,0:11:33.550
AG: Did you catch that?

0:11:33.574,0:11:37.153
Trevor just said that his head writer[br]Zhubin pitched a good joke.

0:11:37.177,0:11:39.584
ZP: I'm a funny guy. I write good jokes.

0:11:39.608,0:11:43.518
AG: The whole idea of burstiness[br]is that when the group has momentum,

0:11:43.542,0:11:45.535
you want it to keep going.

0:11:45.559,0:11:47.790
So I wonder why Trevor interrupted it.

0:11:47.814,0:11:49.915
AG: Is that a conscious[br]effort on your part

0:11:49.939,0:11:51.945
to praise somebody in front of the group?

0:11:51.969,0:11:53.724
Or does that happen spontaneously?

0:11:53.748,0:11:55.700
TN: I think that's a subconscious thing,

0:11:55.724,0:12:00.624
but I've always believed[br]in crediting people where credit is due.

0:12:00.648,0:12:02.957
Especially when you're working[br]in an environment

0:12:02.981,0:12:06.327
where all of the praise is bound[br]to be aimed towards myself.

0:12:06.351,0:12:09.590
So if something's amazing on the show,[br]Trevor gets the credit.

0:12:09.614,0:12:11.391
If something's horrible on the show,

0:12:11.415,0:12:13.757
Trevor gets the credit[br]as well, or the blame.

0:12:13.781,0:12:17.312
And, so I think it just moves people[br]forward as human beings

0:12:17.336,0:12:21.097
to know that we are acknowledged[br]in whatever we're doing.

0:12:21.121,0:12:23.589
AG: When you're in a creative[br]group that's bursting,

0:12:23.613,0:12:25.906
it's easy to lose track of who said what

0:12:25.930,0:12:28.291
and whether your input even matters.

0:12:28.315,0:12:29.469
Here's Daniel.

0:12:29.493,0:12:33.636
DR: It's such a blender,[br]like, all this material gets put in

0:12:33.660,0:12:36.470
and you end up with this kind of[br]comedy smoothie at the end

0:12:36.494,0:12:39.226
that tastes delicious,[br]but you might not be able to say,

0:12:39.250,0:12:41.404
"Oh, that's my strawberry[br]that was in there."

0:12:41.428,0:12:46.380
We do kind of all understand[br]that most jokes don't make it to air,

0:12:46.404,0:12:49.038
especially not as they were[br]originally conceived.

0:12:49.062,0:12:53.157
TN: It may not be the joke that you made[br]that ends up going on TV,

0:12:53.181,0:12:55.999
but it could be the joke[br]that makes you feel a certain way

0:12:56.023,0:12:59.038
that gets you to the joke[br]that you put on TV,

0:12:59.062,0:13:01.340
and so there was a line[br]I thought of yesterday

0:13:01.364,0:13:03.968
with the Roy Moore accusations,

0:13:03.992,0:13:06.102
and Sean Hannity came out to defend him.

0:13:06.126,0:13:10.879
And I said, "Sean Hannity has a season[br]ticket to the wrong side of history."

0:13:10.903,0:13:13.879
And it just made me giggle.[br]Like, you know?

0:13:13.903,0:13:16.799
And then I was just like,[br]"Yeah, I'm going to say that."

0:13:16.823,0:13:20.267
And so if your day is punctuated with joy,

0:13:20.291,0:13:23.862
that joy will manifest itself[br]in the final product that is the show.

0:13:25.571,0:13:28.344
AG: We'll be back with more[br]from Trevor and The Daily Show

0:13:28.368,0:13:29.570
after the break.

0:13:29.594,0:13:31.737
This is going to be[br]a different kind of ad.

0:13:31.761,0:13:34.284
In the spirit of exploring[br]creative ideas at work,

0:13:34.308,0:13:37.323
we're going to take you inside[br]Warby Parker, our sponsor.

0:13:38.395,0:13:40.672
(Music)

0:13:40.696,0:13:44.665
AG: Warby Parker's Neil Blumenthal[br]and Dave Gilboa have a lot in common.

0:13:44.689,0:13:48.070
Neil Blumenthal: You might not[br]be able to tell us apart by our voices,

0:13:48.094,0:13:50.220
... but I'm Neil.[br]Dave Gilboa: And I'm Dave.

0:13:50.244,0:13:52.998
AG: That didn't help at all.[br]But I appreciate your trying.

0:13:53.022,0:13:54.497
(Laughter)

0:13:54.521,0:13:57.799
AG: Yep, they sound alike,[br]they went to the same school,

0:13:57.823,0:13:59.377
they have the same friends,

0:13:59.401,0:14:01.474
and they also have the same job.

0:14:01.498,0:14:04.327
Neil and Dave are the co-CEOs[br]of Warby Parker,

0:14:04.351,0:14:07.447
a billion-dollar company[br]that's made buying eyeglasses cool again.

0:14:08.230,0:14:11.445
I've always been fascinated[br]with dynamic duos like Neil and Dave.

0:14:11.469,0:14:13.470
Not only do they run the company together,

0:14:13.494,0:14:16.599
but their collaborative leadership[br]spreads throughout the culture.

0:14:16.623,0:14:18.378
The ability to work across teams,

0:14:18.402,0:14:20.998
from product to customer[br]service to retail,

0:14:21.022,0:14:23.622
has been key to Warby Parker's success.

0:14:23.646,0:14:25.885
I sat down with them[br]at headquarters in New York

0:14:25.909,0:14:28.678
to talk about what it's like[br]being the boss together.

0:14:28.702,0:14:30.464
(Music)

0:14:30.488,0:14:33.473
AG: The obvious metaphor[br]for a co-CEO relationship

0:14:33.497,0:14:35.504
is a married couple,

0:14:35.528,0:14:39.830
but you both talk about it[br]a little bit more in terms of parenting.

0:14:39.854,0:14:41.663
NB: You know, I think that's right.

0:14:41.687,0:14:45.252
With parenting,[br]you need a philosophy, right?

0:14:45.276,0:14:50.521
You need a vision for what you want[br]your children to grow up to be.

0:14:50.545,0:14:53.711
DG: It also makes the highs higher,[br]being able to celebrate wins,

0:14:53.735,0:14:55.160
and it makes the lows higher,

0:14:55.184,0:15:00.549
in being able to blunt some[br]of the frustrating parts that come up.

0:15:00.573,0:15:03.929
NB: We also at times[br]will play different roles,

0:15:03.953,0:15:06.879
just like in a negotiation,[br]there might be good cop, bad cop.

0:15:06.903,0:15:09.752
Having a two-year-old[br]and six-year-old, I know that.

0:15:09.776,0:15:12.169
Rachel and I often do that as well.

0:15:12.193,0:15:14.813
AG: What's it like to lead[br]a company with an old friend?

0:15:14.837,0:15:19.001
NB: You know, often I'm talking[br]to other founders and CEOs,

0:15:19.025,0:15:22.897
and they'll often speak[br]to a loneliness of the role,

0:15:22.921,0:15:24.857
and I've never felt that way,

0:15:24.881,0:15:27.968
and one of the best things[br]about having a partner

0:15:27.992,0:15:32.691
is that you can just look at each other[br]and laugh and crack up.

0:15:32.715,0:15:35.421
Some of the situations[br]are really difficult.

0:15:35.445,0:15:37.317
Others are just absurd,

0:15:37.341,0:15:40.238
and it just makes it, I think,[br]a lot more enjoyable

0:15:40.262,0:15:42.849
to have somebody alongside.

0:15:42.873,0:15:45.916
AG: What are the top three[br]pieces of advice that you would give

0:15:45.940,0:15:49.034
to somebody who is going to lead[br]with a fellow leader?

0:15:49.058,0:15:50.986
NB: Build trust,

0:15:51.010,0:15:54.583
communicate frequently,[br]which often leads to trust,

0:15:54.607,0:16:00.466
and work with somebody[br]that you enjoy spending time with.

0:16:00.490,0:16:03.373
AG: How many hours do you think[br]you guys have spent together

0:16:03.397,0:16:04.608
in your lifetimes?

0:16:04.632,0:16:06.718
DG: Maybe 15,000 hours?

0:16:06.742,0:16:09.291
And what do they say,[br]you need 10,000 hours

0:16:09.315,0:16:10.958
to become an expert at something?

0:16:10.982,0:16:12.561
NB: We're experts in each other.

0:16:12.585,0:16:13.759
(Laughter)

0:16:13.783,0:16:15.014
NB: When do I get a ring?

0:16:15.038,0:16:16.958
(Laughter)

0:16:16.982,0:16:19.433
(Music)

0:16:19.457,0:16:21.647
AG: That was Neil Blumenthal[br]and Dave Gilboa,

0:16:21.671,0:16:24.243
co-CEOs and cofounders of Warby Parker.

0:16:24.267,0:16:27.123
Warby Parker has tons[br]of interesting frames.

0:16:27.147,0:16:29.298
If you're tired of wearing contact lenses,

0:16:29.322,0:16:31.218
you might want to try their monocle.

0:16:31.242,0:16:32.877
Looking for somewhere to start?

0:16:32.901,0:16:35.654
Their free home try-on program[br]lets you select five frames

0:16:35.678,0:16:37.400
to test out for five days.

0:16:37.424,0:16:39.647
If you don't like them,[br]you can send them back.

0:16:39.671,0:16:42.529
Try it today at warbyparker.com/TED.

0:16:42.553,0:16:48.505
(Music)

0:16:50.370,0:16:52.209
AG: If you've ever brainstormed,

0:16:52.233,0:16:55.307
you know you're supposed[br]to put criticism on hold.

0:16:55.331,0:16:57.211
Let every thought fly.

0:16:57.235,0:16:59.387
There's no such thing as a bad idea.

0:17:00.361,0:17:02.227
But actually, that's a bad idea.

0:17:03.059,0:17:05.065
It turns out that people are more creative

0:17:05.089,0:17:07.329
in groups where criticism is welcomed.

0:17:07.353,0:17:08.880
It raises the bar.

0:17:09.475,0:17:13.530
Psychological safety doesn't mean[br]that everything is all warm and fuzzy.

0:17:13.554,0:17:15.943
You still need to have standards.

0:17:15.967,0:17:20.077
At The Daily Show, the writers don't[br]let each other get away with bad jokes.

0:17:20.101,0:17:22.602
DR: You don't shit on someone[br]for making a bad joke.

0:17:22.626,0:17:24.663
I mean, you do, but, you know ...

0:17:24.687,0:17:26.146
AG: What does that look like?

0:17:26.170,0:17:28.956
ZP: I think light ribbing.

0:17:28.980,0:17:31.122
Although usually the person[br]who made the joke

0:17:31.146,0:17:33.709
is the first to joke[br]about how bad that joke went.

0:17:33.733,0:17:37.685
AG: You create safety by helping people[br]feel comfortable laughing at themselves.

0:17:37.709,0:17:40.583
And some new experiments[br]have shown us how to do that.

0:17:40.607,0:17:42.639
It all starts with a paperclip.

0:17:42.663,0:17:45.789
(Music)

0:17:45.813,0:17:50.733
Researchers asked, "How many new uses[br]can you come up with for this paperclip"?

0:17:50.757,0:17:53.066
People went off to brainstorm.

0:17:53.090,0:17:55.979
Group one generated pretty typical ideas:

0:17:56.003,0:17:59.137
a ring, a bracelet, and a necklace.

0:17:59.161,0:18:02.326
But group two came up[br]with totally unexpected uses,

0:18:02.350,0:18:06.634
like a wound suture,[br]artwork and a screwdriver.

0:18:07.610,0:18:09.246
What made the difference?

0:18:09.270,0:18:12.929
In the first group, everyone[br]just launched into brainstorming,

0:18:12.953,0:18:14.278
but in the second group,

0:18:14.302,0:18:17.199
people were randomly assigned[br]to share an embarrassing story

0:18:17.223,0:18:18.603
before the brainstorm.

0:18:19.039,0:18:22.061
And that simple act[br]lowered their inhibitions.

0:18:22.785,0:18:26.173
This is something they know[br]from experience at The Daily Show.

0:18:26.197,0:18:30.665
ZP: I once misspoke about how,[br]in order to keep flexible,

0:18:30.689,0:18:33.569
we all need to keep our hips on a swivel.

0:18:33.593,0:18:37.092
And I meant we've got to keep[br]our heads on a swivel,

0:18:37.116,0:18:38.910
but I said that two years ago,

0:18:38.934,0:18:42.235
and in the subsequent two years,[br]I've kept saying "hips on a swivel"

0:18:42.259,0:18:44.713
because everybody says that's not right.

0:18:44.737,0:18:46.857
DR: I'm sorry, is "heads[br]on a swivel" better?

0:18:46.881,0:18:49.626
ZP: "Heads on a swivel"[br]is the actual term.

0:18:49.650,0:18:52.911
AG: Nothing should ever be on a swivel.[br]DR: The Exorcist.

0:18:52.935,0:18:58.316
ZP: Regardless, every mistake you make[br]in a comedy writers' room

0:18:58.340,0:18:59.579
usually becomes a bit,

0:18:59.603,0:19:03.317
and I think that only helps foster[br]the creativity about the place.

0:19:03.341,0:19:06.725
Like if we'll take the bad things[br]you said and we'll make fun of them,

0:19:06.749,0:19:10.439
that makes everyone a bit more[br]lighthearted about speaking up.

0:19:11.075,0:19:13.473
AG: So I've been having fun[br]talking to the writers

0:19:13.497,0:19:14.847
about safety and burstiness,

0:19:14.871,0:19:16.886
but I can't stop thinking about the clock.

0:19:17.816,0:19:20.497
We're about three hours away from taping.

0:19:20.521,0:19:22.903
Even though I'm not working on the show,

0:19:22.927,0:19:25.914
I'm starting to feel a little stressed[br]about the deadline.

0:19:25.938,0:19:28.847
I asked Kat and Colleen[br]if they are freaking out.

0:19:28.871,0:19:30.998
AG: Does it ever hit you how crazy that is

0:19:31.022,0:19:34.443
that you started at 9am and you're[br]going to have a show by the evening?

0:19:34.467,0:19:36.198
KR: It is crazy.

0:19:36.222,0:19:39.484
Before I had this job, I used to think[br]"How do they do it every day,"

0:19:39.508,0:19:41.127
but now you're like, "I get it."

0:19:41.151,0:19:43.738
There's enough people[br]who are very good at what they do

0:19:43.762,0:19:45.404
that they make it happen.

0:19:45.428,0:19:47.992
But it is. It's very fast-paced ...

0:19:48.016,0:19:51.870
CW: But this is also like a factory[br]that's been here for a really long time.

0:19:51.894,0:19:53.045
AG: A factory?

0:19:53.069,0:19:56.093
CW: It's an extremely well-oiled machine.

0:19:56.117,0:19:57.708
KR: We also make shoes here.

0:19:57.732,0:19:58.733
(Laughter)

0:19:58.757,0:20:01.574
CW: We all have an incredibly[br]precise contribution to make.

0:20:01.598,0:20:05.296
You know how long you have to do it.[br]You know what the quality standards are.

0:20:05.320,0:20:06.737
Do you know what I'm saying?

0:20:06.761,0:20:10.586
AG: Yeah. No one seems stressed at all.[br]People are just kind of chill, smiling.

0:20:10.610,0:20:12.812
Is that how it always is?

0:20:13.343,0:20:14.971
KR: I think it depends on the day,

0:20:14.995,0:20:18.146
but for the most part I feel like[br]everyone's usually pretty chill,

0:20:18.170,0:20:19.532
because you never feel like,

0:20:19.556,0:20:21.107
"Oh, this is coming down to me."

0:20:21.131,0:20:24.559
You always know that there's[br]going to be someone else to help you out.

0:20:24.583,0:20:27.932
CW: Yeah, feeling, like, loose,[br]and a sense of possibility

0:20:27.956,0:20:32.098
is always just a better place[br]to operate from creatively, I think.

0:20:32.122,0:20:37.637
And so even if you get that little twinkle[br]of anxiety or whatever,

0:20:37.661,0:20:40.233
inside of yourself,[br]it just works better to go like,

0:20:40.257,0:20:42.470
"You know what?[br]I'm an ever-rushing river."

0:20:42.494,0:20:45.017
It's corny, but it works[br]for me, so I do that.

0:20:45.954,0:20:49.215
AG: The relaxed atmosphere[br]frees them up for creative bursts.

0:20:49.239,0:20:51.130
They also have the security of knowing

0:20:51.154,0:20:54.365
that their days are meticulously[br]planned and organized.

0:20:54.389,0:20:56.857
In fact, there's structure everywhere,

0:20:56.881,0:21:00.166
because what The Daily Show has done,[br]consciously or not,

0:21:00.190,0:21:02.800
is build task bubbles into each day.

0:21:02.824,0:21:05.397
(Music)

0:21:05.421,0:21:06.668
Task bubbles.

0:21:06.692,0:21:09.367
So think of a time[br]when you've walked into a meeting

0:21:09.391,0:21:11.494
and tried to jump into the discussion,

0:21:11.518,0:21:12.930
but you couldn't.

0:21:12.954,0:21:15.113
It felt kind of like[br]there was a force field

0:21:15.137,0:21:17.049
that you just bounced off of.

0:21:17.073,0:21:18.669
That's a task bubble,

0:21:18.693,0:21:22.093
where people are totally[br]absorbed in a common project.

0:21:22.117,0:21:24.114
It keeps the group focused.

0:21:24.138,0:21:27.550
That way, everyone can build[br]on each other's ideas and bursts.

0:21:28.009,0:21:31.533
Task bubbles give the writers[br]and producers the space they need

0:21:31.557,0:21:33.739
to hone and refine their ideas.

0:21:33.763,0:21:36.080
Without these protected hours[br]for collaboration,

0:21:36.104,0:21:39.954
they'd all be working[br]at different times, out of sync.

0:21:39.978,0:21:42.709
ZP: Once the writers[br]are being sent off to write,

0:21:42.733,0:21:44.765
they have, usually,[br]two uninterrupted hours

0:21:44.789,0:21:47.407
to think through what the structure[br]of it's going to be

0:21:47.431,0:21:51.112
with respect to the guidelines[br]we've laid out, to add their jokes.

0:21:51.136,0:21:54.716
The only time I interrupt is when[br]there's been a significant change

0:21:54.740,0:21:56.248
Trevor has called for

0:21:56.272,0:21:59.097
or news is broken that requires[br]an immediate edit.

0:21:59.121,0:22:01.557
AG: Too much structure[br]can inhibit creativity,

0:22:01.581,0:22:03.970
but so can too little structure.

0:22:03.994,0:22:07.684
If you agree together on some rules[br]for when and how to work,

0:22:07.708,0:22:10.271
you can focus all your energy[br]on doing the work.

0:22:11.342,0:22:14.508
Here are Jen Flanz and Steve Bodow,[br]the executive producers.

0:22:14.857,0:22:18.096
Jen Flanz: There is a myth[br]that when you're working at a comedy show

0:22:18.120,0:22:19.991
that's all fun all the time

0:22:20.015,0:22:22.387
and we are bouncing[br]a ping pong ball off the wall.

0:22:22.411,0:22:25.347
It's fun, but it's run[br]like a newsroom, a little bit.

0:22:25.371,0:22:28.727
Steve Bodow: Planning and structure:[br]it sounds like it's rigid,

0:22:28.751,0:22:31.877
but it's actually what gives you[br]the freedom to find

0:22:31.901,0:22:34.535
the creative discoveries[br]that will make the thing sing.

0:22:34.559,0:22:38.539
AG: Because of course, creativity[br]doesn't really start with a blank page.

0:22:38.563,0:22:40.650
It begins with some raw material.

0:22:40.674,0:22:41.928
In The Daily Show's case,

0:22:41.952,0:22:44.499
it's the news clips they play[br]in the morning meeting.

0:22:44.523,0:22:47.229
Segment producers have already[br]reviewed hours of footage

0:22:47.253,0:22:49.752
and selected the most promising clips.

0:22:49.776,0:22:51.752
Once everyone is agreed on the headlines,

0:22:51.776,0:22:54.870
the writers know the first act[br]will be seven to 12 minutes long,

0:22:54.894,0:22:56.917
the second should be[br]four to seven minutes,

0:22:56.941,0:22:59.611
and they know exactly[br]how much time they have to write.

0:22:59.635,0:23:03.178
I drag Dan Amira and David Kibukka[br]out of their task bubble.

0:23:03.202,0:23:05.685
They're two writers working[br]to turn the morning riffs

0:23:05.709,0:23:07.289
into a polished segment.

0:23:07.313,0:23:09.752
David Kibukka: So sometimes[br]you have it in your head

0:23:09.776,0:23:12.409
that everybody's saying[br]the greatest jokes all the time.

0:23:12.433,0:23:14.223
And then when you realize that, no --

0:23:14.247,0:23:16.961
Dan Amira: Most of the jokes[br]are just pure garbage.

0:23:16.985,0:23:19.746
DK: Then you're like,[br]"Let me add to this garbage as well,

0:23:19.770,0:23:22.366
and hopefully by taping time,[br]we would have removed it

0:23:22.390,0:23:24.588
and replaced it with something wonderful.

0:23:24.612,0:23:28.691
Cause the first draft[br]is not meant to be the last draft.

0:23:28.715,0:23:30.825
DA: That's why[br]they call it the first draft.

0:23:30.849,0:23:33.869
DK: Yeah, that was a big part[br]of the naming process.

0:23:34.650,0:23:37.686
AG: OK, structure and safety[br]help with burstiness.

0:23:37.710,0:23:40.701
But you also need the right mix[br]of people in the room.

0:23:40.725,0:23:43.349
And judging creative talent is hard.

0:23:43.373,0:23:45.380
Take one of my favorite studies.

0:23:45.404,0:23:48.199
Hollywood producers[br]liked screenplays better

0:23:48.223,0:23:50.028
when the writers presented themselves

0:23:50.052,0:23:51.770
as hip artists or savvy marketers.

0:23:52.484,0:23:56.150
Writers who wore funky glasses[br]actually seemed to get an advantage.

0:23:57.206,0:24:00.712
The Daily Show doesn't want to be swayed[br]by those kinds of stereotypes.

0:24:00.736,0:24:03.434
They want to pick[br]the most creative writers,

0:24:03.458,0:24:07.300
and executive producers Jen and Steve[br]have a process for doing that.

0:24:07.324,0:24:08.578
JF: That's his baby.

0:24:08.602,0:24:12.974
SB: Yeah, that's something[br]I started probably in 2008.

0:24:12.998,0:24:17.600
AG: The inspiration came from something[br]powerful that happened in orchestras:

0:24:17.624,0:24:18.949
blind auditions.

0:24:18.973,0:24:20.124
DR: We blindfold them

0:24:20.148,0:24:23.720
and bring them to a secure location.

0:24:23.744,0:24:25.210
AG: Maybe not like that.

0:24:25.234,0:24:27.217
(Music)

0:24:27.241,0:24:31.209
For years, American symphonies[br]were dominated by men.

0:24:31.233,0:24:36.574
In the 1970s, a typical ensemble[br]had nine men for every woman.

0:24:36.598,0:24:39.724
Supposedly women weren't talented enough,

0:24:39.748,0:24:44.700
but by the 1990s, the gap closed[br]to less than two to one.

0:24:44.724,0:24:46.644
A huge reason that happened?

0:24:46.668,0:24:49.240
The industry introduced blind auditions,

0:24:49.264,0:24:52.217
where candidates played[br]from behind a curtain.

0:24:52.241,0:24:56.336
Once the evaluators couldn't see[br]whether a performer was a man or a woman,

0:24:56.360,0:24:58.463
their biases were neutralized.

0:24:58.487,0:25:01.169
They focused solely[br]on the quality of the music,

0:25:01.193,0:25:03.089
and as they should've known all along,

0:25:03.113,0:25:06.303
the women were[br]just as excellent as the men.

0:25:06.327,0:25:09.216
Well, The Daily Show[br]has a similar approach.

0:25:09.240,0:25:14.890
SB: It was an effort to hopefully[br]diversify in another important way

0:25:14.914,0:25:18.080
in the show -- not on camera[br]but in the writers' room.

0:25:18.104,0:25:21.938
We'd always get submissions from writers[br]with their names on them,

0:25:21.962,0:25:26.589
and oftentimes, they may be[br]someone you knew, or a friend of a friend.

0:25:26.613,0:25:29.772
And to take that ingredient[br]out of it, we said,

0:25:29.796,0:25:31.937
"What if we just number them?"

0:25:31.961,0:25:34.208
AG: The first time they tried[br]blind submissions,

0:25:34.232,0:25:35.859
they hired three new writers,

0:25:35.883,0:25:37.793
and two were women.

0:25:37.817,0:25:42.603
Soon, they hired more people of color,[br]and writers from outside America, too.

0:25:42.627,0:25:45.231
So by the time Trevor joined the show,

0:25:45.255,0:25:47.897
he was working with[br]a diverse cast and crew,

0:25:47.921,0:25:52.168
and it was a priority for him[br]to continue diversifying from every angle.

0:25:52.192,0:25:55.185
But at first, he wasn't sure[br]how to bring in his own background

0:25:55.209,0:25:56.645
as a South African.

0:25:56.669,0:26:00.762
TN: I got so swept up in people[br]saying I was an outsider

0:26:00.786,0:26:03.595
that I forgot that most of us[br]are outsiders.

0:26:03.619,0:26:07.366
It just depends on where[br]we're looking in or out from.

0:26:07.390,0:26:10.635
AG: Diverse backgrounds and perspectives[br]help with creative bursts,

0:26:10.659,0:26:12.928
but we don't always realize it.

0:26:12.952,0:26:15.301
When everyone in a group is the same race,

0:26:15.325,0:26:19.627
they do worse at creative problem-solving[br]but they think they do better,

0:26:19.651,0:26:21.295
because they're more comfortable.

0:26:21.754,0:26:23.928
Diverse groups are more creative.

0:26:23.952,0:26:27.594
It's not just because they have access[br]to a wider range of ideas.

0:26:27.618,0:26:29.849
They feel more uncomfortable,

0:26:29.873,0:26:33.512
and that discomfort motivates them[br]to do extra preparation

0:26:33.536,0:26:35.354
and share new information.

0:26:35.378,0:26:38.631
TN: Trump as an African dictator[br]will always be one of my favorites,

0:26:38.655,0:26:40.710
because it was the first[br]moment on the show

0:26:40.734,0:26:42.998
where people thought[br]that I might have a chance.

0:26:43.022,0:26:46.547
AG: That segment Trevor's talking about?[br]It came out of his own experience.

0:26:46.571,0:26:50.196
TN: It was the first segment[br]where I realized that my uniqueness

0:26:50.220,0:26:52.910
could be used as a skill,[br]as opposed to a hindrance.

0:26:52.934,0:26:55.505
My president also didn't release[br]his tax returns,

0:26:55.529,0:26:57.981
hasn't released them[br]for the time he was president.

0:26:58.005,0:27:01.552
You know, my president[br]also has friendships with the Russians

0:27:01.576,0:27:04.069
that are shady at best.

0:27:04.093,0:27:08.489
In creating the show, I've now realized[br]that I can create within the show

0:27:08.513,0:27:12.473
a feeling of outsiderness,[br]which is generally a curiosity,

0:27:12.497,0:27:16.267
and that is a willingness to learn of[br]a world that you do not know much about,

0:27:16.291,0:27:18.624
and so I try and take[br]the show into that sphere.

0:27:18.648,0:27:21.346
(Ambient rap music)

0:27:21.370,0:27:23.958
AG: At this point in the day,[br]the writers and producers

0:27:23.982,0:27:26.259
have come back together for rehearsal.

0:27:26.283,0:27:28.901
Trevor's in his suit, the lights are up.

0:27:28.925,0:27:31.488
It looks just like I've seen it on TV.

0:27:31.512,0:27:34.128
And now, it's time[br]to try out all the jokes.

0:27:34.631,0:27:37.021
Trevor's delivering them[br]for the first time,

0:27:37.045,0:27:40.045
weaving in his own[br]impressions of Roy Moore.

0:27:40.069,0:27:42.418
TN: Let's kick off the show[br]with something light.

0:27:42.442,0:27:47.378
Alabama GOP Senate candidate[br]Roy Moore and his escalating sex scandal.

0:27:47.402,0:27:50.100
I'm especially curious[br]what pick-up lines Roy Moore used.

0:27:50.124,0:27:53.925
Are you tired? Because you[br]have been running away from me all day.

0:27:53.949,0:27:55.330
(Laughter)

0:27:55.354,0:27:56.869
That's a cute dress.

0:27:56.893,0:28:02.789
It will look even better outside[br]of this Tabloids Kids. Talbots Kids.

0:28:02.813,0:28:04.851
GK: Gap Kids. TN: Gap Kids?

0:28:04.875,0:28:07.986
Do you have a coupon?[br]Because my pants are 50 percent off.

0:28:08.010,0:28:10.801
(Laughter)

0:28:10.825,0:28:13.237
TN: Yesterday, a new accuser,[br]Beverly Young Nelson,

0:28:13.261,0:28:15.404
came forward to say[br]he sexually assaulted her

0:28:15.428,0:28:19.372
when she was a 16-year-old[br]working part-time at a local restaurant,

0:28:19.396,0:28:21.530
but he still says he is innocent.

0:28:21.554,0:28:24.938
"I don't know that restaurant,[br]or any other restaurant for that matter."

0:28:24.962,0:28:28.025
Actually, I never ingested food.[br]I don't even have a mouth.

0:28:28.049,0:28:30.454
(Mimics sound of speaking[br]with one's mouth closed)

0:28:30.478,0:28:35.128
(Laughter)

0:28:35.152,0:28:37.318
I feel like Moore[br]would still deny everything

0:28:37.342,0:28:39.881
even if there was a picture of him[br]at the restaurant

0:28:39.905,0:28:41.896
for winning a pancake-eating contest.

0:28:41.920,0:28:45.749
AG: At the end of every rehearsal,[br]the writers and producers swarm the set.

0:28:45.773,0:28:48.312
DK: Sometimes you'll have[br]a script where you're like,

0:28:48.336,0:28:52.239
"This script is magic. We don't[br]even need to -- why are we rehearsing?

0:28:52.263,0:28:53.862
Guys! Why are we rehearsing?"

0:28:53.886,0:28:56.263
And then you go to rehearsal,[br]and you're like,

0:28:56.287,0:28:58.279
"Does anyone have any other ideas?"

0:28:58.303,0:29:01.796
AG: And right now, it looks like[br]the creative team has some feedback.

0:29:01.820,0:29:04.233
ZP: I think we need to rewrite[br]some of these jokes.

0:29:04.257,0:29:07.605
Like the last one, "I feel like Moore,[br]even if there's a picture of him

0:29:07.629,0:29:11.289
at the restaurant winning[br]a pancake contest," it's not jokey.

0:29:11.313,0:29:15.567
SB: It needs a coat of rewrite on it,[br]but it's structurally fine.

0:29:15.591,0:29:18.758
ZP: A total rewrite?[br]TN: A coat of rewrites.

0:29:18.782,0:29:21.504
SB: We need to throw it out[br]and do something different.

0:29:21.528,0:29:24.265
AG: A rewrite? Seriously?

0:29:24.289,0:29:25.917
I thought it was pretty funny,

0:29:25.941,0:29:28.526
but the writers and producers[br]weren't satisfied.

0:29:28.550,0:29:31.867
They only have about an hour[br]to work on their final material,

0:29:31.891,0:29:35.740
and I'm left to wonder[br]what's going on behind closed doors.

0:29:35.764,0:29:38.232
CW: There's a satanic ritual ... No.

0:29:38.256,0:29:40.154
KR: There's a rewrite room,

0:29:40.178,0:29:43.908
which is pretty much just, like, Trevor,[br]head writer, producers.

0:29:43.932,0:29:45.291
CW: It's a very small room.

0:29:45.315,0:29:48.163
There's like eight or nine people[br]kind of crammed in there.

0:29:48.187,0:29:50.266
KR: Pants are optional.[br]CW: Healthy snacks.

0:29:50.290,0:29:52.574
KR: Going through[br]the whole script top to bottom

0:29:52.598,0:29:55.803
and just making sure everything's[br]as punchy and strong as it can be.

0:29:55.827,0:29:58.908
AG: Now it's out of their hands,[br]and the show goes live.

0:29:58.932,0:30:01.904
Here's Trevor on air, skewering Roy Moore.

0:30:03.024,0:30:05.897
TN: This guy, he's a legend.[br]He's a legend.

0:30:05.921,0:30:08.937
It's almost like his past self[br]is snitching on his future self.

0:30:08.961,0:30:10.000
(Laughter)

0:30:10.024,0:30:13.150
Because everything he denies,[br]he already pre-confessed.

0:30:13.174,0:30:14.770
Like, now I want him to be like,

0:30:14.794,0:30:17.175
"I definitely never[br]sat down at that restaurant."

0:30:17.199,0:30:20.287
"Really? This booth[br]has your name carved into it."

0:30:20.311,0:30:22.018
"Well, I never ate anything there."

0:30:22.042,0:30:25.792
"Your picture's on the wall,[br]for the pancake-eating contest."

0:30:25.816,0:30:29.387
Look, I don't know how this whole thing[br]is going to end up, but as of now,

0:30:29.411,0:30:31.657
both the Senate and House[br]Republican leadership

0:30:31.681,0:30:33.570
have called on Roy Moore to step down.

0:30:33.594,0:30:36.308
And it looks like he might be[br]expelled from the Senate,

0:30:36.332,0:30:38.025
if he wins the election.

0:30:38.049,0:30:41.136
Now I'm not saying[br]he's not a good fit for the Senate,

0:30:41.160,0:30:45.914
but 40 years ago, he wrote in a yearbook,[br]"I'm not good for the Senate."

0:30:45.938,0:30:47.023
(Laughter)

0:30:47.047,0:30:48.289
We'll be right back.

0:30:48.313,0:30:49.356
(Applause)

0:30:49.380,0:30:52.585
AG: Trevor and his creative team[br]do this day in and day out.

0:30:53.300,0:30:55.323
After watching them make a whole show,

0:30:55.347,0:30:58.569
it's clear that these people[br]know each other remarkably well.

0:30:59.220,0:31:01.968
They know who will have[br]a funny take on each topic,

0:31:01.992,0:31:03.822
which writers to pair together,

0:31:03.846,0:31:06.721
which producers have the best[br]expertise on each segment,

0:31:06.745,0:31:09.163
and who can straighten out a messy script.

0:31:09.187,0:31:10.498
Here's Steve.

0:31:10.522,0:31:14.553
SB: Because we have[br]so many shows to do, 160 a year,

0:31:14.577,0:31:16.672
there is not a hell of a lot of time

0:31:16.696,0:31:18.736
for taking retreats

0:31:18.760,0:31:21.824
or doing dry runs of things.

0:31:21.848,0:31:23.546
The way you do new process,

0:31:23.570,0:31:26.023
or the way that you get people[br]to work together,

0:31:26.047,0:31:28.053
is by making a show[br]and making another show

0:31:28.077,0:31:30.078
and then making another show.

0:31:30.102,0:31:33.014
AG: Groups aren't always[br]bad for creativity.

0:31:33.038,0:31:35.511
Maybe we've just[br]studied them the wrong way.

0:31:35.535,0:31:37.854
(Music)

0:31:37.878,0:31:41.272
We've rarely tracked groups[br]that have created safety and structure

0:31:41.296,0:31:44.038
over years of working together.

0:31:44.062,0:31:47.281
So no matter how good you get[br]at finding the right people,

0:31:47.305,0:31:49.432
if you want a group[br]to have creative bursts,

0:31:49.456,0:31:52.837
what matters most is the time you spend[br]getting to know each other.

0:31:52.861,0:31:57.225
It's a twist on the idea that 10,000 hours[br]of practice helps you become an expert.

0:31:57.249,0:32:00.217
Normally, we think that means[br]practicing a skill solo,

0:32:00.241,0:32:02.320
but if group creativity is your goal,

0:32:02.344,0:32:05.486
maybe you should be practicing together.

0:32:05.510,0:32:07.779
I think we should take groups[br]more seriously,

0:32:07.803,0:32:10.541
as an essential unit of creativity.

0:32:10.565,0:32:12.977
Instead of looking[br]for creative individuals,

0:32:13.001,0:32:15.615
what if we hired intact creative groups?

0:32:15.922,0:32:18.532
And instead of promoting[br]individual superstars,

0:32:18.556,0:32:21.253
what if we promoted entire teams?

0:32:21.277,0:32:25.419
Because the best creative groups[br]aren't just the sum of their parts,

0:32:25.443,0:32:28.030
they're the sum[br]of their shared experience.

0:32:28.054,0:32:33.895
(Music)

0:32:33.919,0:32:36.028
WorkLife is hosted by me, Adam Grant.

0:32:36.559,0:32:37.877
The show is produced by TED

0:32:37.901,0:32:40.687
with Transmitter Media[br]and Pineapple Street Media.

0:32:40.711,0:32:43.440
Our team includes[br]Colin Helms, Gretta Cohen,

0:32:43.464,0:32:46.527
Dan O'Donnell, Angela Cheng and Janet Lee.

0:32:46.551,0:32:49.153
This episode was produced[br]by Gabrielle Lewis.

0:32:49.177,0:32:52.391
Our show is mixed by David Herman[br]with help from Dan Dezula.

0:32:52.415,0:32:54.867
Original music by Hans Dale Stevens.

0:32:54.891,0:32:56.708
Special thanks to our sponsors,

0:32:56.732,0:33:01.660
Warby Parker, Accenture,[br]Bonobos and JPMorgan Chase.

0:33:01.684,0:33:02.911
Next time on WorkLife,

0:33:02.935,0:33:06.331
we're going to India[br]to meet the Butler Bulldogs,

0:33:06.355,0:33:09.149
a basketball team with a weird way[br]of building a culture

0:33:09.173,0:33:10.418
and beating the odds.

0:33:10.442,0:33:12.823
Man: I had those five guys in my office,

0:33:12.847,0:33:16.026
and, you know, my biggest,[br]most daunting task was,

0:33:16.050,0:33:17.673
how do you choose captain?

0:33:17.697,0:33:19.688
I brought them all in, and I just said,

0:33:19.712,0:33:23.076
"Hey, we've got 12 guys on the team,[br]but all five of you are captains.

0:33:23.100,0:33:25.078
So 40 percent of our team were captains.

0:33:25.102,0:33:27.433
You know, the one thing,[br]Adam, I didn't want do?

0:33:27.457,0:33:29.378
I didn't want to disempower one of them.

0:33:29.402,0:33:31.016
AG: That's next time on WorkLife.

0:33:31.040,0:33:33.730
Thanks for listening,[br]and if you like what you hear,

0:33:33.754,0:33:37.150
we would all really appreciate it[br]if you could rate and review the show.

0:33:37.174,0:33:39.223
It helps other people find us.

0:33:39.247,0:33:40.405
See you next week.

0:33:40.429,0:33:42.031
(Music)