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Trevor Noah: Got a call from my manager,
and I was in the back of a taxi,

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and he said, "Hey, how would you like
to host The Daily Show?"

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Adam Grant: That's Trevor Noah.

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TN: My mind was blown.

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And I still don't think I understood
the gravity of the entire show.

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And I remember I got out of the taxi
and my knees were weak,

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and I probably would have fainted
if I was just walking.

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I'm glad I was sitting down
when I got the news.

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And yeah, and that's when it happened.

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AG: When Trevor got that call,
his worklife changed.

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He'd spent a lot of his career
working solo as a stand-up comedian

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in clubs and theaters,
mostly in South Africa.

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But now he works with a full
creative team in New York City.

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Four days a week, they make a show
that millions of people watch,

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and I want to know how they pull that off,

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because usually, big groups
are where creativity goes to die.

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(Music)

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I'm Adam Grant, and this is WorkLife,
my podcast with TED.

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I'm an organizational psychologist.

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I study how to make work not suck.

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In this show, I'm inviting myself in
to some truly unusual places

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where they've mastered something
I wish everyone knew about work.

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Today, creativity under the gun,

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and how you can be more creative
in whatever you do.

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Thanks to Warby Parker
for sponsoring this episode.

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(Music)

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When you have a creative challenge,

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the natural starting point is to bring
a group of people together to brainstorm.

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Workplaces have relied
on brainstorming for years.

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There's just one small problem:

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it doesn't work.

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We actually have decades of evidence
that brainstorming backfires.

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Groups produce fewer ideas and worse ideas

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than the same people working alone.

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(Music)

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So what is it about group brainstorming
that stifles creativity?

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First, people silence themselves
because they're afraid of looking stupid.

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Second, some people silence others
by dominating the conversation.

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And third, everyone just supports
the boss's favorite idea.

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But The Daily Show
has overcome these problems.

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They've cracked the code
of group creativity,

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and I'm going in to find out how.

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(Music)

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It's 9am on a Tuesday.

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(Overlapping voices)

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Walking in, it's clear that this show
is a massive machine.

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On any given day, over a hundred
staff and crew members are working on it.

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But I want to focus
on one part of that machine:

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the writers' room.

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It's where a creative team
of writers, producers,

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and on-camera talent come together.

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Being in a writers' room is sort of
an organizational psychologist's dream,

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at least it's one of mine,

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and The Daily Show is giving me
backstage access

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to see how they start the day
with a blank page

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and end up with 22 minutes
of great comedy.

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(Overlapping voices)

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The room is packed with about 30 people.

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Some of them are sitting on couches,

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lots of them are sitting on the floor,

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and some of them even have their dogs.

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They're starting to kick around ideas
before Trevor arrives.

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(Overlapping voices)

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It's November, and the big news of the day

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is Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore.

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There are a few weeks left
before the special election

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to replace Jeff Sessions.

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We all know how that played out,

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but at the time, it was great material.

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They start off by playing clips
from yesterday's news, and then they riff.

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News Clip: ... people are saying
Roy Moore was banned from the mall.

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(Laughter)

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Allison MacDonald, supervising producer:
The fact that the mall

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has higher standards
than the US Senate ...

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News clip: Overnight,
Moore denied the accusations.

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(Clip continues) Roy Moore: I never did
what she said I did.

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I don't even know the woman.
I don't know anything about her.

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I don't even know
where the restaurant is or was.

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Max Brown, supervising producer:
He's like, "I deny it.

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It's absolutely false.

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I have no idea what it is about."

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But with every accuser, it's like,
"He was here every night."

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We have a picture of him
on the wall that he signed.

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Josh Johnson, writer: Sooner or later
with accusers, he'll be like,

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"I'm not even from Alabama.
Never been here before."

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(Laughter)

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Steve Bodow, executive producer:
I am not Roy Moore.

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AG: The room is starting to feel
like a really crowded family dinner.

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Everyone is jumping into the conversation.

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Zhubin Parang, head writer:
I wonder if his favorite booth

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has his name carved into it,
like, "Roy Moore's seat," yeah.

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"I never got pancakes and waffles there,"
and restaurant is like,

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"That is that's what we call
the Roy Moore Special."

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Jimmy Don, senior producer: His picture's
on the wall for the pancake challenge.

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AG: The first thing I noticed

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is that the room
is full of creative bursts.

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Believe it or not, there's a name for that
in the psychology of creativity:

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it's called burstiness.

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(Music)

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Burstiness is like
the best moments in improv jazz.

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Someone plays a note,
someone else jumps in with a harmony,

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and pretty soon, you have
a collective sound that no one planned.

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Most groups never get to that point,

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but you know burstiness when you see it.

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At The Daily Show, the room just literally
sounds like it's bursting with ideas.

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You can hear it in the Roy Moore joke.

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ZP: I think ... Oh, here we go.
What's up, man?

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AG: Trevor Noah just walked in the room.

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ZP: We're just watching
and laughing at Roy Moore,

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going to the mall,
hanging around until ...

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TN: Getting banned from the mall?

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TN: That's a pretty extreme
detail that they left out.

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ZP: While you're the DA.

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TN: Even the mall cop
is like, "Look, Mr. DA, I know."

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MB: It's really hard
to get banned by the mall.

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Like, if you are a bad teenager,
you don't get banned.

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Dan McCoy, writer: I like the way
he was making excuses

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now about these bans.
"No, I was stealing lipstick."

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(Laughter)

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AG: So right there, my ears perk up.

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The burstiness is back,
even with Trevor in the room.

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Everyone's throwing out
half-baked ideas to their boss.

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How comfortable are you
just brainstorming on the fly

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in front of the most powerful
person in your workplace?

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If you have a boss
who is constantly judging you,

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that would be a nightmare.

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You'd be afraid of getting
it wrong or looking dumb.

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But Trevor sets an inviting tone.

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There's no frenzy, no panic.

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He's guiding the group.

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Although the clock is ticking,
he doesn't sound stressed.

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TN: Let's just go down
that list. Let's breeze through it.

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AG: The meeting wraps up at 10:30.

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They have an outline for the show.

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Now it's time to divide and conquer.

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The writers only have about two hours
before their first drafts are due.

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ZP: So, I need a couple of writers
to just a round of the Asia wrap

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and two writers who want
to do the Don-Jr-is-an-idiot thing.

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AG: They go off in pairs to write.

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I want to dig in further to find out
how they create the ideal conditions

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for burstiness,

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so I tracked down
the head writer, Zhubin Parang,

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and senior writer Daniel Radosh.

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AG: Psychologists talk about
this pattern they call burstiness,

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which is, how rapidly
we're taking turns in conversation

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and interrupting each other.

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There were moments
when somebody had a pretty good joke

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and then like four people built on it.

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Daniel Radosh: The main thing
is to get the jokes out of the material

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and that's where
the burstiness comes from.

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AG: I love how you adopted
the language of burstiness

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like that's a normal thing
people would say.

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DR: We're improv-focused.

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Whatever you say, that's the new term.

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AG: But let's be clear: not everyone
was immediately on board.

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Here are two of the newer writers,
Kat Radley and Colleen Werthmann.

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Colleen Werthmann: Burstiness?

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Kat Radley: You come up with that?
AG: No, I'm just borrowing it.

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I first learned about burstiness
from a colleague.

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Anita Williams Woolley:
I'm Anita Williams Woolley.

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I'm an associate professor
at Carnegie Mellon University.

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Burstiness is when everybody
is speaking and responding to each other

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in a short amount of time

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instead of having it drawn out
over a long period of time.

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AG: Anita sees burstiness
in all kinds of groups,

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not just at work.

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AWW: I have four older brothers
and three kids who are all boys,

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and I joke how this explains my whole life

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because pretty much
any dinnertime conversation,

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you can hear me say,
"Wait a minute, let me finish."

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There's a lot of burstiness
in the conversation

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and a lot of interrupting,

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which seems not to bother them at all
but sometimes can drive me crazy.

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AG: Interruptions aren't always rude.

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When you're in a crunch,
you want everyone to pitch in fast.

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Anita studied software teams working
in different places around the globe.

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She found that the most innovative
and productive teams were bursty.

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AWW: The more effective teams

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figured out when their team members
were likely to be working

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and they would get online
at a similar time

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and start exchanging messages,
sending each other code,

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whereas other teams might have
communicated just as much

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and engaged in just as much activity

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but kind of more dictated
by their own personal schedule,

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and those teams were not as effective.

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AG: Burstiness is a sign
that you're not stuck

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in one of those dysfunctional
brainstorming sessions.

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It's when a group
reaches its creative peak

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because everyone is participating freely
and contributing ideas.

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AWW: I don't think that burstiness
is unique to creative fields.

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However, I think probably creative fields
do really benefit from burstiness.

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The people who are
in the conversation are energized

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because when you speak, somebody's
going to respond to you right away,

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you know they're listening
and then you're listening to them,

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and so it's much easier
to exchange ideas and maybe build ideas.

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AG: But of course,
burstiness looks different

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when your raw materials
aren't bits of code

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but bits of comedy.

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In the writers' room, the burstiness
doesn't just happen by accident.

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I asked Trevor Noah about it.

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TN: So, when I'm in a writers' room,

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there are two things
that are happening in my head.

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One, I'm looking at what we're going
to be doing on the show that day,

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and two, I'm thinking
about the room as a comedy room

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and how much laughter
it is imbued with in that moment.

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And I know it's extremely superstitious

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and no one can ever prove it
or not disprove it,

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but I believe that laughter is absorbed

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just like secondhand cigarette smoke

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into the very fabric
of who we are as human beings.

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AG: Watching you in the room this morning,
I was intrigued by a few things.

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One, I expected a big change
when you walked in,

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and there wasn't a lot that was different,

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which is a sign to me that you've made it
incredibly psychologically safe.

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AG: People are not afraid of you.

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TN: Oh, in the room. Oh, that's funny.

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AG: They're not freaked out
that you walked in,

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and they're still pitching
some pretty half-baked jokes.

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That's called psychological safety.

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It's where you can take risks
without feeling afraid.

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Without that sense of safety,
creative bursts don't happen.

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People censor themselves.

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TN: Well, I always believed
that in any relationship

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where there is someone who is in charge,
whether it's in a family, with a parent,

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or whether it's a teacher,
whether it's a boss in a work environment,

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really what brings out the best in people
in my opinion is a mutual respect.

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I trust that my writers are trying
to help me make the best show,

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and they trust that I want
to make the funniest show.

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It's taken a long time, but now,
when I when I walk into a meeting,

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I'm walking into
a continuing conversation.

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AG: Building psychological
safety takes time.

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It's something you create
a little every day,

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and you can see it in small moments.

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There was one that caught my eye
in the writers' room.

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00:11:25,313 --> 00:11:30,495
TN: I'm saying that joke you pitched,
it was so good, like, even in the room.

236
00:11:30,519 --> 00:11:32,288
ZP: That was great, that went well.

237
00:11:32,312 --> 00:11:33,550
AG: Did you catch that?

238
00:11:33,574 --> 00:11:37,153
Trevor just said that his head writer
Zhubin pitched a good joke.

239
00:11:37,177 --> 00:11:39,584
ZP: I'm a funny guy. I write good jokes.

240
00:11:39,608 --> 00:11:43,518
AG: The whole idea of burstiness
is that when the group has momentum,

241
00:11:43,542 --> 00:11:45,535
you want it to keep going.

242
00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:47,790
So I wonder why Trevor interrupted it.

243
00:11:47,814 --> 00:11:49,915
AG: Is that a conscious
effort on your part

244
00:11:49,939 --> 00:11:51,945
to praise somebody in front of the group?

245
00:11:51,969 --> 00:11:53,724
Or does that happen spontaneously?

246
00:11:53,748 --> 00:11:55,700
TN: I think that's a subconscious thing,

247
00:11:55,724 --> 00:12:00,624
but I've always believed
in crediting people where credit is due.

248
00:12:00,648 --> 00:12:02,957
Especially when you're working
in an environment

249
00:12:02,981 --> 00:12:06,327
where all of the praise is bound
to be aimed towards myself.

250
00:12:06,351 --> 00:12:09,590
So if something's amazing on the show,
Trevor gets the credit.

251
00:12:09,614 --> 00:12:11,391
If something's horrible on the show,

252
00:12:11,415 --> 00:12:13,757
Trevor gets the credit
as well, or the blame.

253
00:12:13,781 --> 00:12:17,312
And, so I think it just moves people
forward as human beings

254
00:12:17,336 --> 00:12:21,097
to know that we are acknowledged
in whatever we're doing.

255
00:12:21,121 --> 00:12:23,589
AG: When you're in a creative
group that's bursting,

256
00:12:23,613 --> 00:12:25,906
it's easy to lose track of who said what

257
00:12:25,930 --> 00:12:28,291
and whether your input even matters.

258
00:12:28,315 --> 00:12:29,469
Here's Daniel.

259
00:12:29,493 --> 00:12:33,636
DR: It's such a blender,
like, all this material gets put in

260
00:12:33,660 --> 00:12:36,470
and you end up with this kind of
comedy smoothie at the end

261
00:12:36,494 --> 00:12:39,226
that tastes delicious,
but you might not be able to say,

262
00:12:39,250 --> 00:12:41,404
"Oh, that's my strawberry
that was in there."

263
00:12:41,428 --> 00:12:46,380
We do kind of all understand
that most jokes don't make it to air,

264
00:12:46,404 --> 00:12:49,038
especially not as they were
originally conceived.

265
00:12:49,062 --> 00:12:53,157
TN: It may not be the joke that you made
that ends up going on TV,

266
00:12:53,181 --> 00:12:55,999
but it could be the joke
that makes you feel a certain way

267
00:12:56,023 --> 00:12:59,038
that gets you to the joke
that you put on TV,

268
00:12:59,062 --> 00:13:01,340
and so there was a line
I thought of yesterday

269
00:13:01,364 --> 00:13:03,968
with the Roy Moore accusations,

270
00:13:03,992 --> 00:13:06,102
and Sean Hannity came out to defend him.

271
00:13:06,126 --> 00:13:10,879
And I said, "Sean Hannity has a season
ticket to the wrong side of history."

272
00:13:10,903 --> 00:13:13,879
And it just made me giggle.
Like, you know?

273
00:13:13,903 --> 00:13:16,799
And then I was just like,
"Yeah, I'm going to say that."

274
00:13:16,823 --> 00:13:20,267
And so if your day is punctuated with joy,

275
00:13:20,291 --> 00:13:23,862
that joy will manifest itself
in the final product that is the show.

276
00:13:25,571 --> 00:13:28,344
AG: We'll be back with more
from Trevor and The Daily Show

277
00:13:28,368 --> 00:13:29,570
after the break.

278
00:13:29,594 --> 00:13:31,737
This is going to be
a different kind of ad.

279
00:13:31,761 --> 00:13:34,284
In the spirit of exploring
creative ideas at work,

280
00:13:34,308 --> 00:13:37,323
we're going to take you inside
Warby Parker, our sponsor.

281
00:13:38,395 --> 00:13:40,672
(Music)

282
00:13:40,696 --> 00:13:44,665
AG: Warby Parker's Neil Blumenthal
and Dave Gilboa have a lot in common.

283
00:13:44,689 --> 00:13:48,070
Neil Blumenthal: You might not
be able to tell us apart by our voices,

284
00:13:48,094 --> 00:13:50,220
... but I'm Neil.
Dave Gilboa: And I'm Dave.

285
00:13:50,244 --> 00:13:52,998
AG: That didn't help at all.
But I appreciate your trying.

286
00:13:53,022 --> 00:13:54,497
(Laughter)

287
00:13:54,521 --> 00:13:57,799
AG: Yep, they sound alike,
they went to the same school,

288
00:13:57,823 --> 00:13:59,377
they have the same friends,

289
00:13:59,401 --> 00:14:01,474
and they also have the same job.

290
00:14:01,498 --> 00:14:04,327
Neil and Dave are the co-CEOs
of Warby Parker,

291
00:14:04,351 --> 00:14:07,447
a billion-dollar company
that's made buying eyeglasses cool again.

292
00:14:08,230 --> 00:14:11,445
I've always been fascinated
with dynamic duos like Neil and Dave.

293
00:14:11,469 --> 00:14:13,470
Not only do they run the company together,

294
00:14:13,494 --> 00:14:16,599
but their collaborative leadership
spreads throughout the culture.

295
00:14:16,623 --> 00:14:18,378
The ability to work across teams,

296
00:14:18,402 --> 00:14:20,998
from product to customer
service to retail,

297
00:14:21,022 --> 00:14:23,622
has been key to Warby Parker's success.

298
00:14:23,646 --> 00:14:25,885
I sat down with them
at headquarters in New York

299
00:14:25,909 --> 00:14:28,678
to talk about what it's like
being the boss together.

300
00:14:28,702 --> 00:14:30,464
(Music)

301
00:14:30,488 --> 00:14:33,473
AG: The obvious metaphor
for a co-CEO relationship

302
00:14:33,497 --> 00:14:35,504
is a married couple,

303
00:14:35,528 --> 00:14:39,830
but you both talk about it
a little bit more in terms of parenting.

304
00:14:39,854 --> 00:14:41,663
NB: You know, I think that's right.

305
00:14:41,687 --> 00:14:45,252
With parenting,
you need a philosophy, right?

306
00:14:45,276 --> 00:14:50,521
You need a vision for what you want
your children to grow up to be.

307
00:14:50,545 --> 00:14:53,711
DG: It also makes the highs higher,
being able to celebrate wins,

308
00:14:53,735 --> 00:14:55,160
and it makes the lows higher,

309
00:14:55,184 --> 00:15:00,549
in being able to blunt some
of the frustrating parts that come up.

310
00:15:00,573 --> 00:15:03,929
NB: We also at times
will play different roles,

311
00:15:03,953 --> 00:15:06,879
just like in a negotiation,
there might be good cop, bad cop.

312
00:15:06,903 --> 00:15:09,752
Having a two-year-old
and six-year-old, I know that.

313
00:15:09,776 --> 00:15:12,169
Rachel and I often do that as well.

314
00:15:12,193 --> 00:15:14,813
AG: What's it like to lead
a company with an old friend?

315
00:15:14,837 --> 00:15:19,001
NB: You know, often I'm talking
to other founders and CEOs,

316
00:15:19,025 --> 00:15:22,897
and they'll often speak
to a loneliness of the role,

317
00:15:22,921 --> 00:15:24,857
and I've never felt that way,

318
00:15:24,881 --> 00:15:27,968
and one of the best things
about having a partner

319
00:15:27,992 --> 00:15:32,691
is that you can just look at each other
and laugh and crack up.

320
00:15:32,715 --> 00:15:35,421
Some of the situations
are really difficult.

321
00:15:35,445 --> 00:15:37,317
Others are just absurd,

322
00:15:37,341 --> 00:15:40,238
and it just makes it, I think,
a lot more enjoyable

323
00:15:40,262 --> 00:15:42,849
to have somebody alongside.

324
00:15:42,873 --> 00:15:45,916
AG: What are the top three
pieces of advice that you would give

325
00:15:45,940 --> 00:15:49,034
to somebody who is going to lead
with a fellow leader?

326
00:15:49,058 --> 00:15:50,986
NB: Build trust,

327
00:15:51,010 --> 00:15:54,583
communicate frequently,
which often leads to trust,

328
00:15:54,607 --> 00:16:00,466
and work with somebody
that you enjoy spending time with.

329
00:16:00,490 --> 00:16:03,373
AG: How many hours do you think
you guys have spent together

330
00:16:03,397 --> 00:16:04,608
in your lifetimes?

331
00:16:04,632 --> 00:16:06,718
DG: Maybe 15,000 hours?

332
00:16:06,742 --> 00:16:09,291
And what do they say,
you need 10,000 hours

333
00:16:09,315 --> 00:16:10,958
to become an expert at something?

334
00:16:10,982 --> 00:16:12,561
NB: We're experts in each other.

335
00:16:12,585 --> 00:16:13,759
(Laughter)

336
00:16:13,783 --> 00:16:15,014
NB: When do I get a ring?

337
00:16:15,038 --> 00:16:16,958
(Laughter)

338
00:16:16,982 --> 00:16:19,433
(Music)

339
00:16:19,457 --> 00:16:21,647
AG: That was Neil Blumenthal
and Dave Gilboa,

340
00:16:21,671 --> 00:16:24,243
co-CEOs and cofounders of Warby Parker.

341
00:16:24,267 --> 00:16:27,123
Warby Parker has tons
of interesting frames.

342
00:16:27,147 --> 00:16:29,298
If you're tired of wearing contact lenses,

343
00:16:29,322 --> 00:16:31,218
you might want to try their monocle.

344
00:16:31,242 --> 00:16:32,877
Looking for somewhere to start?

345
00:16:32,901 --> 00:16:35,654
Their free home try-on program
lets you select five frames

346
00:16:35,678 --> 00:16:37,400
to test out for five days.

347
00:16:37,424 --> 00:16:39,647
If you don't like them,
you can send them back.

348
00:16:39,671 --> 00:16:42,529
Try it today at warbyparker.com/TED.

349
00:16:42,553 --> 00:16:48,505
(Music)

350
00:16:50,370 --> 00:16:52,209
AG: If you've ever brainstormed,

351
00:16:52,233 --> 00:16:55,307
you know you're supposed
to put criticism on hold.

352
00:16:55,331 --> 00:16:57,211
Let every thought fly.

353
00:16:57,235 --> 00:16:59,387
There's no such thing as a bad idea.

354
00:17:00,361 --> 00:17:02,227
But actually, that's a bad idea.

355
00:17:03,059 --> 00:17:05,065
It turns out that people are more creative

356
00:17:05,089 --> 00:17:07,329
in groups where criticism is welcomed.

357
00:17:07,353 --> 00:17:08,880
It raises the bar.

358
00:17:09,475 --> 00:17:13,530
Psychological safety doesn't mean
that everything is all warm and fuzzy.

359
00:17:13,554 --> 00:17:15,943
You still need to have standards.

360
00:17:15,967 --> 00:17:20,077
At The Daily Show, the writers don't
let each other get away with bad jokes.

361
00:17:20,101 --> 00:17:22,602
DR: You don't shit on someone
for making a bad joke.

362
00:17:22,626 --> 00:17:24,663
I mean, you do, but, you know ...

363
00:17:24,687 --> 00:17:26,146
AG: What does that look like?

364
00:17:26,170 --> 00:17:28,956
ZP: I think light ribbing.

365
00:17:28,980 --> 00:17:31,122
Although usually the person
who made the joke

366
00:17:31,146 --> 00:17:33,709
is the first to joke
about how bad that joke went.

367
00:17:33,733 --> 00:17:37,685
AG: You create safety by helping people
feel comfortable laughing at themselves.

368
00:17:37,709 --> 00:17:40,583
And some new experiments
have shown us how to do that.

369
00:17:40,607 --> 00:17:42,639
It all starts with a paperclip.

370
00:17:42,663 --> 00:17:45,789
(Music)

371
00:17:45,813 --> 00:17:50,733
Researchers asked, "How many new uses
can you come up with for this paperclip"?

372
00:17:50,757 --> 00:17:53,066
People went off to brainstorm.

373
00:17:53,090 --> 00:17:55,979
Group one generated pretty typical ideas:

374
00:17:56,003 --> 00:17:59,137
a ring, a bracelet, and a necklace.

375
00:17:59,161 --> 00:18:02,326
But group two came up
with totally unexpected uses,

376
00:18:02,350 --> 00:18:06,634
like a wound suture,
artwork and a screwdriver.

377
00:18:07,610 --> 00:18:09,246
What made the difference?

378
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:12,929
In the first group, everyone
just launched into brainstorming,

379
00:18:12,953 --> 00:18:14,278
but in the second group,

380
00:18:14,302 --> 00:18:17,199
people were randomly assigned
to share an embarrassing story

381
00:18:17,223 --> 00:18:18,603
before the brainstorm.

382
00:18:19,039 --> 00:18:22,061
And that simple act
lowered their inhibitions.

383
00:18:22,785 --> 00:18:26,173
This is something they know
from experience at The Daily Show.

384
00:18:26,197 --> 00:18:30,665
ZP: I once misspoke about how,
in order to keep flexible,

385
00:18:30,689 --> 00:18:33,569
we all need to keep our hips on a swivel.

386
00:18:33,593 --> 00:18:37,092
And I meant we've got to keep
our heads on a swivel,

387
00:18:37,116 --> 00:18:38,910
but I said that two years ago,

388
00:18:38,934 --> 00:18:42,235
and in the subsequent two years,
I've kept saying "hips on a swivel"

389
00:18:42,259 --> 00:18:44,713
because everybody says that's not right.

390
00:18:44,737 --> 00:18:46,857
DR: I'm sorry, is "heads
on a swivel" better?

391
00:18:46,881 --> 00:18:49,626
ZP: "Heads on a swivel"
is the actual term.

392
00:18:49,650 --> 00:18:52,911
AG: Nothing should ever be on a swivel.
DR: The Exorcist.

393
00:18:52,935 --> 00:18:58,316
ZP: Regardless, every mistake you make
in a comedy writers' room

394
00:18:58,340 --> 00:18:59,579
usually becomes a bit,

395
00:18:59,603 --> 00:19:03,317
and I think that only helps foster
the creativity about the place.

396
00:19:03,341 --> 00:19:06,725
Like if we'll take the bad things
you said and we'll make fun of them,

397
00:19:06,749 --> 00:19:10,439
that makes everyone a bit more
lighthearted about speaking up.

398
00:19:11,075 --> 00:19:13,473
AG: So I've been having fun
talking to the writers

399
00:19:13,497 --> 00:19:14,847
about safety and burstiness,

400
00:19:14,871 --> 00:19:16,886
but I can't stop thinking about the clock.

401
00:19:17,816 --> 00:19:20,497
We're about three hours away from taping.

402
00:19:20,521 --> 00:19:22,903
Even though I'm not working on the show,

403
00:19:22,927 --> 00:19:25,914
I'm starting to feel a little stressed
about the deadline.

404
00:19:25,938 --> 00:19:28,847
I asked Kat and Colleen
if they are freaking out.

405
00:19:28,871 --> 00:19:30,998
AG: Does it ever hit you how crazy that is

406
00:19:31,022 --> 00:19:34,443
that you started at 9am and you're
going to have a show by the evening?

407
00:19:34,467 --> 00:19:36,198
KR: It is crazy.

408
00:19:36,222 --> 00:19:39,484
Before I had this job, I used to think
"How do they do it every day,"

409
00:19:39,508 --> 00:19:41,127
but now you're like, "I get it."

410
00:19:41,151 --> 00:19:43,738
There's enough people
who are very good at what they do

411
00:19:43,762 --> 00:19:45,404
that they make it happen.

412
00:19:45,428 --> 00:19:47,992
But it is. It's very fast-paced ...

413
00:19:48,016 --> 00:19:51,870
CW: But this is also like a factory
that's been here for a really long time.

414
00:19:51,894 --> 00:19:53,045
AG: A factory?

415
00:19:53,069 --> 00:19:56,093
CW: It's an extremely well-oiled machine.

416
00:19:56,117 --> 00:19:57,708
KR: We also make shoes here.

417
00:19:57,732 --> 00:19:58,733
(Laughter)

418
00:19:58,757 --> 00:20:01,574
CW: We all have an incredibly
precise contribution to make.

419
00:20:01,598 --> 00:20:05,296
You know how long you have to do it.
You know what the quality standards are.

420
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:06,737
Do you know what I'm saying?

421
00:20:06,761 --> 00:20:10,586
AG: Yeah. No one seems stressed at all.
People are just kind of chill, smiling.

422
00:20:10,610 --> 00:20:12,812
Is that how it always is?

423
00:20:13,343 --> 00:20:14,971
KR: I think it depends on the day,

424
00:20:14,995 --> 00:20:18,146
but for the most part I feel like
everyone's usually pretty chill,

425
00:20:18,170 --> 00:20:19,532
because you never feel like,

426
00:20:19,556 --> 00:20:21,107
"Oh, this is coming down to me."

427
00:20:21,131 --> 00:20:24,559
You always know that there's
going to be someone else to help you out.

428
00:20:24,583 --> 00:20:27,932
CW: Yeah, feeling, like, loose,
and a sense of possibility

429
00:20:27,956 --> 00:20:32,098
is always just a better place
to operate from creatively, I think.

430
00:20:32,122 --> 00:20:37,637
And so even if you get that little twinkle
of anxiety or whatever,

431
00:20:37,661 --> 00:20:40,233
inside of yourself,
it just works better to go like,

432
00:20:40,257 --> 00:20:42,470
"You know what?
I'm an ever-rushing river."

433
00:20:42,494 --> 00:20:45,017
It's corny, but it works
for me, so I do that.

434
00:20:45,954 --> 00:20:49,215
AG: The relaxed atmosphere
frees them up for creative bursts.

435
00:20:49,239 --> 00:20:51,130
They also have the security of knowing

436
00:20:51,154 --> 00:20:54,365
that their days are meticulously
planned and organized.

437
00:20:54,389 --> 00:20:56,857
In fact, there's structure everywhere,

438
00:20:56,881 --> 00:21:00,166
because what The Daily Show has done,
consciously or not,

439
00:21:00,190 --> 00:21:02,800
is build task bubbles into each day.

440
00:21:02,824 --> 00:21:05,397
(Music)

441
00:21:05,421 --> 00:21:06,668
Task bubbles.

442
00:21:06,692 --> 00:21:09,367
So think of a time
when you've walked into a meeting

443
00:21:09,391 --> 00:21:11,494
and tried to jump into the discussion,

444
00:21:11,518 --> 00:21:12,930
but you couldn't.

445
00:21:12,954 --> 00:21:15,113
It felt kind of like
there was a force field

446
00:21:15,137 --> 00:21:17,049
that you just bounced off of.

447
00:21:17,073 --> 00:21:18,669
That's a task bubble,

448
00:21:18,693 --> 00:21:22,093
where people are totally
absorbed in a common project.

449
00:21:22,117 --> 00:21:24,114
It keeps the group focused.

450
00:21:24,138 --> 00:21:27,550
That way, everyone can build
on each other's ideas and bursts.

451
00:21:28,009 --> 00:21:31,533
Task bubbles give the writers
and producers the space they need

452
00:21:31,557 --> 00:21:33,739
to hone and refine their ideas.

453
00:21:33,763 --> 00:21:36,080
Without these protected hours
for collaboration,

454
00:21:36,104 --> 00:21:39,954
they'd all be working
at different times, out of sync.

455
00:21:39,978 --> 00:21:42,709
ZP: Once the writers
are being sent off to write,

456
00:21:42,733 --> 00:21:44,765
they have, usually,
two uninterrupted hours

457
00:21:44,789 --> 00:21:47,407
to think through what the structure
of it's going to be

458
00:21:47,431 --> 00:21:51,112
with respect to the guidelines
we've laid out, to add their jokes.

459
00:21:51,136 --> 00:21:54,716
The only time I interrupt is when
there's been a significant change

460
00:21:54,740 --> 00:21:56,248
Trevor has called for

461
00:21:56,272 --> 00:21:59,097
or news is broken that requires
an immediate edit.

462
00:21:59,121 --> 00:22:01,557
AG: Too much structure
can inhibit creativity,

463
00:22:01,581 --> 00:22:03,970
but so can too little structure.

464
00:22:03,994 --> 00:22:07,684
If you agree together on some rules
for when and how to work,

465
00:22:07,708 --> 00:22:10,271
you can focus all your energy
on doing the work.

466
00:22:11,342 --> 00:22:14,508
Here are Jen Flanz and Steve Bodow,
the executive producers.

467
00:22:14,857 --> 00:22:18,096
Jen Flanz: There is a myth
that when you're working at a comedy show

468
00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:19,991
that's all fun all the time

469
00:22:20,015 --> 00:22:22,387
and we are bouncing
a ping pong ball off the wall.

470
00:22:22,411 --> 00:22:25,347
It's fun, but it's run
like a newsroom, a little bit.

471
00:22:25,371 --> 00:22:28,727
Steve Bodow: Planning and structure:
it sounds like it's rigid,

472
00:22:28,751 --> 00:22:31,877
but it's actually what gives you
the freedom to find

473
00:22:31,901 --> 00:22:34,535
the creative discoveries
that will make the thing sing.

474
00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:38,539
AG: Because of course, creativity
doesn't really start with a blank page.

475
00:22:38,563 --> 00:22:40,650
It begins with some raw material.

476
00:22:40,674 --> 00:22:41,928
In The Daily Show's case,

477
00:22:41,952 --> 00:22:44,499
it's the news clips they play
in the morning meeting.

478
00:22:44,523 --> 00:22:47,229
Segment producers have already
reviewed hours of footage

479
00:22:47,253 --> 00:22:49,752
and selected the most promising clips.

480
00:22:49,776 --> 00:22:51,752
Once everyone is agreed on the headlines,

481
00:22:51,776 --> 00:22:54,870
the writers know the first act
will be seven to 12 minutes long,

482
00:22:54,894 --> 00:22:56,917
the second should be
four to seven minutes,

483
00:22:56,941 --> 00:22:59,611
and they know exactly
how much time they have to write.

484
00:22:59,635 --> 00:23:03,178
I drag Dan Amira and David Kibukka
out of their task bubble.

485
00:23:03,202 --> 00:23:05,685
They're two writers working
to turn the morning riffs

486
00:23:05,709 --> 00:23:07,289
into a polished segment.

487
00:23:07,313 --> 00:23:09,752
David Kibukka: So sometimes
you have it in your head

488
00:23:09,776 --> 00:23:12,409
that everybody's saying
the greatest jokes all the time.

489
00:23:12,433 --> 00:23:14,223
And then when you realize that, no --

490
00:23:14,247 --> 00:23:16,961
Dan Amira: Most of the jokes
are just pure garbage.

491
00:23:16,985 --> 00:23:19,746
DK: Then you're like,
"Let me add to this garbage as well,

492
00:23:19,770 --> 00:23:22,366
and hopefully by taping time,
we would have removed it

493
00:23:22,390 --> 00:23:24,588
and replaced it with something wonderful.

494
00:23:24,612 --> 00:23:28,691
Cause the first draft
is not meant to be the last draft.

495
00:23:28,715 --> 00:23:30,825
DA: That's why
they call it the first draft.

496
00:23:30,849 --> 00:23:33,869
DK: Yeah, that was a big part
of the naming process.

497
00:23:34,650 --> 00:23:37,686
AG: OK, structure and safety
help with burstiness.

498
00:23:37,710 --> 00:23:40,701
But you also need the right mix
of people in the room.

499
00:23:40,725 --> 00:23:43,349
And judging creative talent is hard.

500
00:23:43,373 --> 00:23:45,380
Take one of my favorite studies.

501
00:23:45,404 --> 00:23:48,199
Hollywood producers
liked screenplays better

502
00:23:48,223 --> 00:23:50,028
when the writers presented themselves

503
00:23:50,052 --> 00:23:51,770
as hip artists or savvy marketers.

504
00:23:52,484 --> 00:23:56,150
Writers who wore funky glasses
actually seemed to get an advantage.

505
00:23:57,206 --> 00:24:00,712
The Daily Show doesn't want to be swayed
by those kinds of stereotypes.

506
00:24:00,736 --> 00:24:03,434
They want to pick
the most creative writers,

507
00:24:03,458 --> 00:24:07,300
and executive producers Jen and Steve
have a process for doing that.

508
00:24:07,324 --> 00:24:08,578
JF: That's his baby.

509
00:24:08,602 --> 00:24:12,974
SB: Yeah, that's something
I started probably in 2008.

510
00:24:12,998 --> 00:24:17,600
AG: The inspiration came from something
powerful that happened in orchestras:

511
00:24:17,624 --> 00:24:18,949
blind auditions.

512
00:24:18,973 --> 00:24:20,124
DR: We blindfold them

513
00:24:20,148 --> 00:24:23,720
and bring them to a secure location.

514
00:24:23,744 --> 00:24:25,210
AG: Maybe not like that.

515
00:24:25,234 --> 00:24:27,217
(Music)

516
00:24:27,241 --> 00:24:31,209
For years, American symphonies
were dominated by men.

517
00:24:31,233 --> 00:24:36,574
In the 1970s, a typical ensemble
had nine men for every woman.

518
00:24:36,598 --> 00:24:39,724
Supposedly women weren't talented enough,

519
00:24:39,748 --> 00:24:44,700
but by the 1990s, the gap closed
to less than two to one.

520
00:24:44,724 --> 00:24:46,644
A huge reason that happened?

521
00:24:46,668 --> 00:24:49,240
The industry introduced blind auditions,

522
00:24:49,264 --> 00:24:52,217
where candidates played
from behind a curtain.

523
00:24:52,241 --> 00:24:56,336
Once the evaluators couldn't see
whether a performer was a man or a woman,

524
00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:58,463
their biases were neutralized.

525
00:24:58,487 --> 00:25:01,169
They focused solely
on the quality of the music,

526
00:25:01,193 --> 00:25:03,089
and as they should've known all along,

527
00:25:03,113 --> 00:25:06,303
the women were
just as excellent as the men.

528
00:25:06,327 --> 00:25:09,216
Well, The Daily Show
has a similar approach.

529
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:14,890
SB: It was an effort to hopefully
diversify in another important way

530
00:25:14,914 --> 00:25:18,080
in the show -- not on camera
but in the writers' room.

531
00:25:18,104 --> 00:25:21,938
We'd always get submissions from writers
with their names on them,

532
00:25:21,962 --> 00:25:26,589
and oftentimes, they may be
someone you knew, or a friend of a friend.

533
00:25:26,613 --> 00:25:29,772
And to take that ingredient
out of it, we said,

534
00:25:29,796 --> 00:25:31,937
"What if we just number them?"

535
00:25:31,961 --> 00:25:34,208
AG: The first time they tried
blind submissions,

536
00:25:34,232 --> 00:25:35,859
they hired three new writers,

537
00:25:35,883 --> 00:25:37,793
and two were women.

538
00:25:37,817 --> 00:25:42,603
Soon, they hired more people of color,
and writers from outside America, too.

539
00:25:42,627 --> 00:25:45,231
So by the time Trevor joined the show,

540
00:25:45,255 --> 00:25:47,897
he was working with
a diverse cast and crew,

541
00:25:47,921 --> 00:25:52,168
and it was a priority for him
to continue diversifying from every angle.

542
00:25:52,192 --> 00:25:55,185
But at first, he wasn't sure
how to bring in his own background

543
00:25:55,209 --> 00:25:56,645
as a South African.

544
00:25:56,669 --> 00:26:00,762
TN: I got so swept up in people
saying I was an outsider

545
00:26:00,786 --> 00:26:03,595
that I forgot that most of us
are outsiders.

546
00:26:03,619 --> 00:26:07,366
It just depends on where
we're looking in or out from.

547
00:26:07,390 --> 00:26:10,635
AG: Diverse backgrounds and perspectives
help with creative bursts,

548
00:26:10,659 --> 00:26:12,928
but we don't always realize it.

549
00:26:12,952 --> 00:26:15,301
When everyone in a group is the same race,

550
00:26:15,325 --> 00:26:19,627
they do worse at creative problem-solving
but they think they do better,

551
00:26:19,651 --> 00:26:21,295
because they're more comfortable.

552
00:26:21,754 --> 00:26:23,928
Diverse groups are more creative.

553
00:26:23,952 --> 00:26:27,594
It's not just because they have access
to a wider range of ideas.

554
00:26:27,618 --> 00:26:29,849
They feel more uncomfortable,

555
00:26:29,873 --> 00:26:33,512
and that discomfort motivates them
to do extra preparation

556
00:26:33,536 --> 00:26:35,354
and share new information.

557
00:26:35,378 --> 00:26:38,631
TN: Trump as an African dictator
will always be one of my favorites,

558
00:26:38,655 --> 00:26:40,710
because it was the first
moment on the show

559
00:26:40,734 --> 00:26:42,998
where people thought
that I might have a chance.

560
00:26:43,022 --> 00:26:46,547
AG: That segment Trevor's talking about?
It came out of his own experience.

561
00:26:46,571 --> 00:26:50,196
TN: It was the first segment
where I realized that my uniqueness

562
00:26:50,220 --> 00:26:52,910
could be used as a skill,
as opposed to a hindrance.

563
00:26:52,934 --> 00:26:55,505
My president also didn't release
his tax returns,

564
00:26:55,529 --> 00:26:57,981
hasn't released them
for the time he was president.

565
00:26:58,005 --> 00:27:01,552
You know, my president
also has friendships with the Russians

566
00:27:01,576 --> 00:27:04,069
that are shady at best.

567
00:27:04,093 --> 00:27:08,489
In creating the show, I've now realized
that I can create within the show

568
00:27:08,513 --> 00:27:12,473
a feeling of outsiderness,
which is generally a curiosity,

569
00:27:12,497 --> 00:27:16,267
and that is a willingness to learn of
a world that you do not know much about,

570
00:27:16,291 --> 00:27:18,624
and so I try and take
the show into that sphere.

571
00:27:18,648 --> 00:27:21,346
(Ambient rap music)

572
00:27:21,370 --> 00:27:23,958
AG: At this point in the day,
the writers and producers

573
00:27:23,982 --> 00:27:26,259
have come back together for rehearsal.

574
00:27:26,283 --> 00:27:28,901
Trevor's in his suit, the lights are up.

575
00:27:28,925 --> 00:27:31,488
It looks just like I've seen it on TV.

576
00:27:31,512 --> 00:27:34,128
And now, it's time
to try out all the jokes.

577
00:27:34,631 --> 00:27:37,021
Trevor's delivering them
for the first time,

578
00:27:37,045 --> 00:27:40,045
weaving in his own
impressions of Roy Moore.

579
00:27:40,069 --> 00:27:42,418
TN: Let's kick off the show
with something light.

580
00:27:42,442 --> 00:27:47,378
Alabama GOP Senate candidate
Roy Moore and his escalating sex scandal.

581
00:27:47,402 --> 00:27:50,100
I'm especially curious
what pick-up lines Roy Moore used.

582
00:27:50,124 --> 00:27:53,925
Are you tired? Because you
have been running away from me all day.

583
00:27:53,949 --> 00:27:55,330
(Laughter)

584
00:27:55,354 --> 00:27:56,869
That's a cute dress.

585
00:27:56,893 --> 00:28:02,789
It will look even better outside
of this Tabloids Kids. Talbots Kids.

586
00:28:02,813 --> 00:28:04,851
GK: Gap Kids. TN: Gap Kids?

587
00:28:04,875 --> 00:28:07,986
Do you have a coupon?
Because my pants are 50 percent off.

588
00:28:08,010 --> 00:28:10,801
(Laughter)

589
00:28:10,825 --> 00:28:13,237
TN: Yesterday, a new accuser,
Beverly Young Nelson,

590
00:28:13,261 --> 00:28:15,404
came forward to say
he sexually assaulted her

591
00:28:15,428 --> 00:28:19,372
when she was a 16-year-old
working part-time at a local restaurant,

592
00:28:19,396 --> 00:28:21,530
but he still says he is innocent.

593
00:28:21,554 --> 00:28:24,938
"I don't know that restaurant,
or any other restaurant for that matter."

594
00:28:24,962 --> 00:28:28,025
Actually, I never ingested food.
I don't even have a mouth.

595
00:28:28,049 --> 00:28:30,454
(Mimics sound of speaking
with one's mouth closed)

596
00:28:30,478 --> 00:28:35,128
(Laughter)

597
00:28:35,152 --> 00:28:37,318
I feel like Moore
would still deny everything

598
00:28:37,342 --> 00:28:39,881
even if there was a picture of him
at the restaurant

599
00:28:39,905 --> 00:28:41,896
for winning a pancake-eating contest.

600
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,749
AG: At the end of every rehearsal,
the writers and producers swarm the set.

601
00:28:45,773 --> 00:28:48,312
DK: Sometimes you'll have
a script where you're like,

602
00:28:48,336 --> 00:28:52,239
"This script is magic. We don't
even need to -- why are we rehearsing?

603
00:28:52,263 --> 00:28:53,862
Guys! Why are we rehearsing?"

604
00:28:53,886 --> 00:28:56,263
And then you go to rehearsal,
and you're like,

605
00:28:56,287 --> 00:28:58,279
"Does anyone have any other ideas?"

606
00:28:58,303 --> 00:29:01,796
AG: And right now, it looks like
the creative team has some feedback.

607
00:29:01,820 --> 00:29:04,233
ZP: I think we need to rewrite
some of these jokes.

608
00:29:04,257 --> 00:29:07,605
Like the last one, "I feel like Moore,
even if there's a picture of him

609
00:29:07,629 --> 00:29:11,289
at the restaurant winning
a pancake contest," it's not jokey.

610
00:29:11,313 --> 00:29:15,567
SB: It needs a coat of rewrite on it,
but it's structurally fine.

611
00:29:15,591 --> 00:29:18,758
ZP: A total rewrite?
TN: A coat of rewrites.

612
00:29:18,782 --> 00:29:21,504
SB: We need to throw it out
and do something different.

613
00:29:21,528 --> 00:29:24,265
AG: A rewrite? Seriously?

614
00:29:24,289 --> 00:29:25,917
I thought it was pretty funny,

615
00:29:25,941 --> 00:29:28,526
but the writers and producers
weren't satisfied.

616
00:29:28,550 --> 00:29:31,867
They only have about an hour
to work on their final material,

617
00:29:31,891 --> 00:29:35,740
and I'm left to wonder
what's going on behind closed doors.

618
00:29:35,764 --> 00:29:38,232
CW: There's a satanic ritual ... No.

619
00:29:38,256 --> 00:29:40,154
KR: There's a rewrite room,

620
00:29:40,178 --> 00:29:43,908
which is pretty much just, like, Trevor,
head writer, producers.

621
00:29:43,932 --> 00:29:45,291
CW: It's a very small room.

622
00:29:45,315 --> 00:29:48,163
There's like eight or nine people
kind of crammed in there.

623
00:29:48,187 --> 00:29:50,266
KR: Pants are optional.
CW: Healthy snacks.

624
00:29:50,290 --> 00:29:52,574
KR: Going through
the whole script top to bottom

625
00:29:52,598 --> 00:29:55,803
and just making sure everything's
as punchy and strong as it can be.

626
00:29:55,827 --> 00:29:58,908
AG: Now it's out of their hands,
and the show goes live.

627
00:29:58,932 --> 00:30:01,904
Here's Trevor on air, skewering Roy Moore.

628
00:30:03,024 --> 00:30:05,897
TN: This guy, he's a legend.
He's a legend.

629
00:30:05,921 --> 00:30:08,937
It's almost like his past self
is snitching on his future self.

630
00:30:08,961 --> 00:30:10,000
(Laughter)

631
00:30:10,024 --> 00:30:13,150
Because everything he denies,
he already pre-confessed.

632
00:30:13,174 --> 00:30:14,770
Like, now I want him to be like,

633
00:30:14,794 --> 00:30:17,175
"I definitely never
sat down at that restaurant."

634
00:30:17,199 --> 00:30:20,287
"Really? This booth
has your name carved into it."

635
00:30:20,311 --> 00:30:22,018
"Well, I never ate anything there."

636
00:30:22,042 --> 00:30:25,792
"Your picture's on the wall,
for the pancake-eating contest."

637
00:30:25,816 --> 00:30:29,387
Look, I don't know how this whole thing
is going to end up, but as of now,

638
00:30:29,411 --> 00:30:31,657
both the Senate and House
Republican leadership

639
00:30:31,681 --> 00:30:33,570
have called on Roy Moore to step down.

640
00:30:33,594 --> 00:30:36,308
And it looks like he might be
expelled from the Senate,

641
00:30:36,332 --> 00:30:38,025
if he wins the election.

642
00:30:38,049 --> 00:30:41,136
Now I'm not saying
he's not a good fit for the Senate,

643
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,914
but 40 years ago, he wrote in a yearbook,
"I'm not good for the Senate."

644
00:30:45,938 --> 00:30:47,023
(Laughter)

645
00:30:47,047 --> 00:30:48,289
We'll be right back.

646
00:30:48,313 --> 00:30:49,356
(Applause)

647
00:30:49,380 --> 00:30:52,585
AG: Trevor and his creative team
do this day in and day out.

648
00:30:53,300 --> 00:30:55,323
After watching them make a whole show,

649
00:30:55,347 --> 00:30:58,569
it's clear that these people
know each other remarkably well.

650
00:30:59,220 --> 00:31:01,968
They know who will have
a funny take on each topic,

651
00:31:01,992 --> 00:31:03,822
which writers to pair together,

652
00:31:03,846 --> 00:31:06,721
which producers have the best
expertise on each segment,

653
00:31:06,745 --> 00:31:09,163
and who can straighten out a messy script.

654
00:31:09,187 --> 00:31:10,498
Here's Steve.

655
00:31:10,522 --> 00:31:14,553
SB: Because we have
so many shows to do, 160 a year,

656
00:31:14,577 --> 00:31:16,672
there is not a hell of a lot of time

657
00:31:16,696 --> 00:31:18,736
for taking retreats

658
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,824
or doing dry runs of things.

659
00:31:21,848 --> 00:31:23,546
The way you do new process,

660
00:31:23,570 --> 00:31:26,023
or the way that you get people
to work together,

661
00:31:26,047 --> 00:31:28,053
is by making a show
and making another show

662
00:31:28,077 --> 00:31:30,078
and then making another show.

663
00:31:30,102 --> 00:31:33,014
AG: Groups aren't always
bad for creativity.

664
00:31:33,038 --> 00:31:35,511
Maybe we've just
studied them the wrong way.

665
00:31:35,535 --> 00:31:37,854
(Music)

666
00:31:37,878 --> 00:31:41,272
We've rarely tracked groups
that have created safety and structure

667
00:31:41,296 --> 00:31:44,038
over years of working together.

668
00:31:44,062 --> 00:31:47,281
So no matter how good you get
at finding the right people,

669
00:31:47,305 --> 00:31:49,432
if you want a group
to have creative bursts,

670
00:31:49,456 --> 00:31:52,837
what matters most is the time you spend
getting to know each other.

671
00:31:52,861 --> 00:31:57,225
It's a twist on the idea that 10,000 hours
of practice helps you become an expert.

672
00:31:57,249 --> 00:32:00,217
Normally, we think that means
practicing a skill solo,

673
00:32:00,241 --> 00:32:02,320
but if group creativity is your goal,

674
00:32:02,344 --> 00:32:05,486
maybe you should be practicing together.

675
00:32:05,510 --> 00:32:07,779
I think we should take groups
more seriously,

676
00:32:07,803 --> 00:32:10,541
as an essential unit of creativity.

677
00:32:10,565 --> 00:32:12,977
Instead of looking
for creative individuals,

678
00:32:13,001 --> 00:32:15,615
what if we hired intact creative groups?

679
00:32:15,922 --> 00:32:18,532
And instead of promoting
individual superstars,

680
00:32:18,556 --> 00:32:21,253
what if we promoted entire teams?

681
00:32:21,277 --> 00:32:25,419
Because the best creative groups
aren't just the sum of their parts,

682
00:32:25,443 --> 00:32:28,030
they're the sum
of their shared experience.

683
00:32:28,054 --> 00:32:33,895
(Music)

684
00:32:33,919 --> 00:32:36,028
WorkLife is hosted by me, Adam Grant.

685
00:32:36,559 --> 00:32:37,877
The show is produced by TED

686
00:32:37,901 --> 00:32:40,687
with Transmitter Media
and Pineapple Street Media.

687
00:32:40,711 --> 00:32:43,440
Our team includes
Colin Helms, Gretta Cohen,

688
00:32:43,464 --> 00:32:46,527
Dan O'Donnell, Angela Cheng and Janet Lee.

689
00:32:46,551 --> 00:32:49,153
This episode was produced
by Gabrielle Lewis.

690
00:32:49,177 --> 00:32:52,391
Our show is mixed by David Herman
with help from Dan Dezula.

691
00:32:52,415 --> 00:32:54,867
Original music by Hans Dale Stevens.

692
00:32:54,891 --> 00:32:56,708
Special thanks to our sponsors,

693
00:32:56,732 --> 00:33:01,660
Warby Parker, Accenture,
Bonobos and JPMorgan Chase.

694
00:33:01,684 --> 00:33:02,911
Next time on WorkLife,

695
00:33:02,935 --> 00:33:06,331
we're going to India
to meet the Butler Bulldogs,

696
00:33:06,355 --> 00:33:09,149
a basketball team with a weird way
of building a culture

697
00:33:09,173 --> 00:33:10,418
and beating the odds.

698
00:33:10,442 --> 00:33:12,823
Man: I had those five guys in my office,

699
00:33:12,847 --> 00:33:16,026
and, you know, my biggest,
most daunting task was,

700
00:33:16,050 --> 00:33:17,673
how do you choose captain?

701
00:33:17,697 --> 00:33:19,688
I brought them all in, and I just said,

702
00:33:19,712 --> 00:33:23,076
"Hey, we've got 12 guys on the team,
but all five of you are captains.

703
00:33:23,100 --> 00:33:25,078
So 40 percent of our team were captains.

704
00:33:25,102 --> 00:33:27,433
You know, the one thing,
Adam, I didn't want do?

705
00:33:27,457 --> 00:33:29,378
I didn't want to disempower one of them.

706
00:33:29,402 --> 00:33:31,016
AG: That's next time on WorkLife.

707
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,730
Thanks for listening,
and if you like what you hear,

708
00:33:33,754 --> 00:33:37,150
we would all really appreciate it
if you could rate and review the show.

709
00:33:37,174 --> 00:33:39,223
It helps other people find us.

710
00:33:39,247 --> 00:33:40,405
See you next week.

711
00:33:40,429 --> 00:33:42,031
(Music)