WEBVTT 00:00:00.634 --> 00:00:04.143 Trevor Noah: Got a call from my manager, and I was in the back of a taxi, 00:00:04.167 --> 00:00:07.296 and he said, "Hey, how would you like to host The Daily Show?" NOTE Paragraph 00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:09.015 Adam Grant: That's Trevor Noah. NOTE Paragraph 00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:10.284 TN: My mind was blown. 00:00:10.308 --> 00:00:13.732 And I still don't think I understood the gravity of the entire show. 00:00:13.756 --> 00:00:16.629 And I remember I got out of the taxi and my knees were weak, 00:00:16.653 --> 00:00:19.390 and I probably would have fainted if I was just walking. 00:00:19.414 --> 00:00:21.668 I'm glad I was sitting down when I got the news. 00:00:21.692 --> 00:00:24.604 And yeah, and that's when it happened. NOTE Paragraph 00:00:24.628 --> 00:00:28.009 AG: When Trevor got that call, his worklife changed. 00:00:28.033 --> 00:00:31.247 He'd spent a lot of his career working solo as a stand-up comedian 00:00:31.271 --> 00:00:33.969 in clubs and theaters, mostly in South Africa. 00:00:33.993 --> 00:00:37.072 But now he works with a full creative team in New York City. 00:00:37.096 --> 00:00:40.706 Four days a week, they make a show that millions of people watch, 00:00:40.730 --> 00:00:42.801 and I want to know how they pull that off, 00:00:42.825 --> 00:00:46.660 because usually, big groups are where creativity goes to die. NOTE Paragraph 00:00:47.160 --> 00:00:53.755 (Music) NOTE Paragraph 00:00:53.779 --> 00:00:57.583 I'm Adam Grant, and this is WorkLife, my podcast with TED. 00:00:57.905 --> 00:00:59.929 I'm an organizational psychologist. 00:00:59.953 --> 00:01:02.651 I study how to make work not suck. 00:01:02.675 --> 00:01:06.658 In this show, I'm inviting myself in to some truly unusual places 00:01:06.682 --> 00:01:10.205 where they've mastered something I wish everyone knew about work. 00:01:10.229 --> 00:01:13.189 Today, creativity under the gun, 00:01:13.213 --> 00:01:16.698 and how you can be more creative in whatever you do. 00:01:16.722 --> 00:01:19.175 Thanks to Warby Parker for sponsoring this episode. NOTE Paragraph 00:01:19.199 --> 00:01:22.486 (Music) NOTE Paragraph 00:01:22.510 --> 00:01:24.193 When you have a creative challenge, 00:01:24.217 --> 00:01:28.094 the natural starting point is to bring a group of people together to brainstorm. 00:01:28.118 --> 00:01:31.207 Workplaces have relied on brainstorming for years. 00:01:31.231 --> 00:01:33.406 There's just one small problem: 00:01:33.430 --> 00:01:34.659 it doesn't work. 00:01:35.674 --> 00:01:39.358 We actually have decades of evidence that brainstorming backfires. 00:01:39.382 --> 00:01:42.477 Groups produce fewer ideas and worse ideas 00:01:42.501 --> 00:01:44.485 than the same people working alone. NOTE Paragraph 00:01:44.509 --> 00:01:46.048 (Music) NOTE Paragraph 00:01:46.072 --> 00:01:49.436 So what is it about group brainstorming that stifles creativity? 00:01:49.460 --> 00:01:53.500 First, people silence themselves because they're afraid of looking stupid. 00:01:53.524 --> 00:01:57.531 Second, some people silence others by dominating the conversation. 00:01:57.555 --> 00:02:00.738 And third, everyone just supports the boss's favorite idea. 00:02:02.078 --> 00:02:04.999 But The Daily Show has overcome these problems. 00:02:05.023 --> 00:02:07.873 They've cracked the code of group creativity, 00:02:07.897 --> 00:02:10.190 and I'm going in to find out how. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:10.214 --> 00:02:14.459 (Music) NOTE Paragraph 00:02:14.483 --> 00:02:16.140 It's 9am on a Tuesday. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:16.164 --> 00:02:17.505 (Overlapping voices) NOTE Paragraph 00:02:17.529 --> 00:02:20.831 Walking in, it's clear that this show is a massive machine. 00:02:20.855 --> 00:02:24.332 On any given day, over a hundred staff and crew members are working on it. 00:02:24.910 --> 00:02:27.292 But I want to focus on one part of that machine: 00:02:27.316 --> 00:02:28.688 the writers' room. 00:02:28.712 --> 00:02:31.084 It's where a creative team of writers, producers, 00:02:31.108 --> 00:02:33.640 and on-camera talent come together. 00:02:33.664 --> 00:02:37.403 Being in a writers' room is sort of an organizational psychologist's dream, 00:02:37.427 --> 00:02:39.212 at least it's one of mine, 00:02:39.236 --> 00:02:41.547 and The Daily Show is giving me backstage access 00:02:41.571 --> 00:02:44.140 to see how they start the day with a blank page 00:02:44.164 --> 00:02:46.775 and end up with 22 minutes of great comedy. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:46.799 --> 00:02:48.204 (Overlapping voices) NOTE Paragraph 00:02:48.228 --> 00:02:50.611 The room is packed with about 30 people. 00:02:50.635 --> 00:02:52.467 Some of them are sitting on couches, 00:02:52.491 --> 00:02:54.394 lots of them are sitting on the floor, 00:02:54.418 --> 00:02:56.346 and some of them even have their dogs. 00:02:56.370 --> 00:02:59.234 They're starting to kick around ideas before Trevor arrives. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:59.258 --> 00:03:00.774 (Overlapping voices) NOTE Paragraph 00:03:00.798 --> 00:03:03.124 It's November, and the big news of the day 00:03:03.148 --> 00:03:06.234 is Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore. 00:03:06.258 --> 00:03:08.812 There are a few weeks left before the special election 00:03:08.836 --> 00:03:10.273 to replace Jeff Sessions. 00:03:10.924 --> 00:03:12.718 We all know how that played out, 00:03:12.742 --> 00:03:15.653 but at the time, it was great material. 00:03:15.677 --> 00:03:19.567 They start off by playing clips from yesterday's news, and then they riff. NOTE Paragraph 00:03:19.591 --> 00:03:22.884 News Clip: ... people are saying Roy Moore was banned from the mall. NOTE Paragraph 00:03:22.908 --> 00:03:24.420 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:03:24.444 --> 00:03:27.466 Allison MacDonald, supervising producer: The fact that the mall 00:03:27.490 --> 00:03:29.624 has higher standards than the US Senate ... NOTE Paragraph 00:03:29.648 --> 00:03:32.108 News clip: Overnight, Moore denied the accusations. NOTE Paragraph 00:03:32.132 --> 00:03:35.036 (Clip continues) Roy Moore: I never did what she said I did. 00:03:35.060 --> 00:03:38.512 I don't even know the woman. I don't know anything about her. 00:03:38.536 --> 00:03:42.137 I don't even know where the restaurant is or was. NOTE Paragraph 00:03:42.161 --> 00:03:44.808 Max Brown, supervising producer: He's like, "I deny it. 00:03:44.832 --> 00:03:46.000 It's absolutely false. 00:03:46.024 --> 00:03:47.706 I have no idea what it is about." 00:03:47.730 --> 00:03:50.690 But with every accuser, it's like, "He was here every night." 00:03:50.714 --> 00:03:53.213 We have a picture of him on the wall that he signed. NOTE Paragraph 00:03:53.237 --> 00:03:56.380 Josh Johnson, writer: Sooner or later with accusers, he'll be like, 00:03:56.404 --> 00:03:59.126 "I'm not even from Alabama. Never been here before." NOTE Paragraph 00:03:59.150 --> 00:04:00.451 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:04:00.475 --> 00:04:04.855 Steve Bodow, executive producer: I am not Roy Moore. NOTE Paragraph 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:08.339 AG: The room is starting to feel like a really crowded family dinner. 00:04:08.363 --> 00:04:10.405 Everyone is jumping into the conversation. NOTE Paragraph 00:04:10.429 --> 00:04:13.227 Zhubin Parang, head writer: I wonder if his favorite booth 00:04:13.251 --> 00:04:17.402 has his name carved into it, like, "Roy Moore's seat," yeah. 00:04:17.426 --> 00:04:21.171 "I never got pancakes and waffles there," and restaurant is like, 00:04:21.195 --> 00:04:24.639 "That is that's what we call the Roy Moore Special." NOTE Paragraph 00:04:24.663 --> 00:04:29.114 Jimmy Don, senior producer: His picture's on the wall for the pancake challenge. NOTE Paragraph 00:04:29.138 --> 00:04:30.566 AG: The first thing I noticed 00:04:30.590 --> 00:04:33.305 is that the room is full of creative bursts. 00:04:33.329 --> 00:04:37.052 Believe it or not, there's a name for that in the psychology of creativity: 00:04:37.076 --> 00:04:38.416 it's called burstiness. NOTE Paragraph 00:04:38.440 --> 00:04:40.789 (Music) NOTE Paragraph 00:04:40.813 --> 00:04:43.865 Burstiness is like the best moments in improv jazz. 00:04:43.889 --> 00:04:47.662 Someone plays a note, someone else jumps in with a harmony, 00:04:47.686 --> 00:04:51.933 and pretty soon, you have a collective sound that no one planned. 00:04:51.957 --> 00:04:54.600 Most groups never get to that point, 00:04:54.624 --> 00:04:57.156 but you know burstiness when you see it. 00:04:57.180 --> 00:05:01.558 At The Daily Show, the room just literally sounds like it's bursting with ideas. 00:05:01.582 --> 00:05:04.141 You can hear it in the Roy Moore joke. NOTE Paragraph 00:05:04.165 --> 00:05:07.173 ZP: I think ... Oh, here we go. What's up, man? NOTE Paragraph 00:05:07.197 --> 00:05:09.150 AG: Trevor Noah just walked in the room. NOTE Paragraph 00:05:09.174 --> 00:05:11.515 ZP: We're just watching and laughing at Roy Moore, 00:05:11.539 --> 00:05:13.908 going to the mall, hanging around until ... NOTE Paragraph 00:05:13.932 --> 00:05:16.509 TN: Getting banned from the mall? NOTE Paragraph 00:05:16.533 --> 00:05:19.277 TN: That's a pretty extreme detail that they left out. NOTE Paragraph 00:05:19.301 --> 00:05:20.618 ZP: While you're the DA. NOTE Paragraph 00:05:20.642 --> 00:05:24.320 TN: Even the mall cop is like, "Look, Mr. DA, I know." NOTE Paragraph 00:05:24.344 --> 00:05:26.709 MB: It's really hard to get banned by the mall. 00:05:26.733 --> 00:05:29.439 Like, if you are a bad teenager, you don't get banned. NOTE Paragraph 00:05:29.463 --> 00:05:32.065 Dan McCoy, writer: I like the way he was making excuses 00:05:32.089 --> 00:05:35.249 now about these bans. "No, I was stealing lipstick." NOTE Paragraph 00:05:35.273 --> 00:05:37.274 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:05:37.298 --> 00:05:39.828 AG: So right there, my ears perk up. 00:05:39.852 --> 00:05:43.843 The burstiness is back, even with Trevor in the room. 00:05:43.867 --> 00:05:46.573 Everyone's throwing out half-baked ideas to their boss. 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:50.469 How comfortable are you just brainstorming on the fly 00:05:50.493 --> 00:05:54.095 in front of the most powerful person in your workplace? 00:05:54.119 --> 00:05:56.539 If you have a boss who is constantly judging you, 00:05:56.563 --> 00:05:58.761 that would be a nightmare. 00:05:58.785 --> 00:06:01.499 You'd be afraid of getting it wrong or looking dumb. 00:06:02.578 --> 00:06:04.982 But Trevor sets an inviting tone. 00:06:05.006 --> 00:06:07.372 There's no frenzy, no panic. 00:06:07.396 --> 00:06:09.124 He's guiding the group. 00:06:09.148 --> 00:06:12.663 Although the clock is ticking, he doesn't sound stressed. NOTE Paragraph 00:06:12.687 --> 00:06:15.901 TN: Let's just go down that list. Let's breeze through it. NOTE Paragraph 00:06:15.925 --> 00:06:17.977 AG: The meeting wraps up at 10:30. 00:06:18.001 --> 00:06:20.141 They have an outline for the show. 00:06:20.165 --> 00:06:21.920 Now it's time to divide and conquer. 00:06:22.368 --> 00:06:26.361 The writers only have about two hours before their first drafts are due. NOTE Paragraph 00:06:26.385 --> 00:06:31.424 ZP: So, I need a couple of writers to just a round of the Asia wrap 00:06:31.448 --> 00:06:36.804 and two writers who want to do the Don-Jr-is-an-idiot thing. NOTE Paragraph 00:06:36.828 --> 00:06:39.327 AG: They go off in pairs to write. 00:06:39.351 --> 00:06:43.193 I want to dig in further to find out how they create the ideal conditions 00:06:43.217 --> 00:06:44.612 for burstiness, 00:06:44.636 --> 00:06:47.421 so I tracked down the head writer, Zhubin Parang, 00:06:47.445 --> 00:06:49.683 and senior writer Daniel Radosh. NOTE Paragraph 00:06:49.707 --> 00:06:52.690 AG: Psychologists talk about this pattern they call burstiness, 00:06:52.714 --> 00:06:55.443 which is, how rapidly we're taking turns in conversation 00:06:55.467 --> 00:06:56.887 and interrupting each other. 00:06:56.911 --> 00:06:59.506 There were moments when somebody had a pretty good joke 00:06:59.530 --> 00:07:01.371 and then like four people built on it. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:01.395 --> 00:07:04.681 Daniel Radosh: The main thing is to get the jokes out of the material 00:07:04.705 --> 00:07:06.792 and that's where the burstiness comes from. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:06.816 --> 00:07:09.411 AG: I love how you adopted the language of burstiness 00:07:09.435 --> 00:07:11.499 like that's a normal thing people would say. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:11.523 --> 00:07:12.779 DR: We're improv-focused. 00:07:12.803 --> 00:07:14.652 Whatever you say, that's the new term. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:14.676 --> 00:07:18.453 AG: But let's be clear: not everyone was immediately on board. 00:07:18.477 --> 00:07:22.032 Here are two of the newer writers, Kat Radley and Colleen Werthmann. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:22.540 --> 00:07:24.277 Colleen Werthmann: Burstiness? NOTE Paragraph 00:07:24.301 --> 00:07:27.506 Kat Radley: You come up with that? AG: No, I'm just borrowing it. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:27.530 --> 00:07:29.936 I first learned about burstiness from a colleague. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:29.960 --> 00:07:32.475 Anita Williams Woolley: I'm Anita Williams Woolley. 00:07:32.499 --> 00:07:35.228 I'm an associate professor at Carnegie Mellon University. 00:07:35.252 --> 00:07:40.601 Burstiness is when everybody is speaking and responding to each other 00:07:40.625 --> 00:07:42.419 in a short amount of time 00:07:42.443 --> 00:07:46.815 instead of having it drawn out over a long period of time. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:46.839 --> 00:07:49.868 AG: Anita sees burstiness in all kinds of groups, 00:07:49.892 --> 00:07:51.251 not just at work. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:51.275 --> 00:07:54.425 AWW: I have four older brothers and three kids who are all boys, 00:07:54.449 --> 00:07:56.735 and I joke how this explains my whole life 00:07:56.759 --> 00:07:59.496 because pretty much any dinnertime conversation, 00:07:59.520 --> 00:08:02.083 you can hear me say, "Wait a minute, let me finish." 00:08:02.107 --> 00:08:04.313 There's a lot of burstiness in the conversation 00:08:04.337 --> 00:08:06.463 and a lot of interrupting, 00:08:06.487 --> 00:08:10.908 which seems not to bother them at all but sometimes can drive me crazy. NOTE Paragraph 00:08:10.932 --> 00:08:12.963 AG: Interruptions aren't always rude. 00:08:12.987 --> 00:08:16.058 When you're in a crunch, you want everyone to pitch in fast. 00:08:16.082 --> 00:08:19.915 Anita studied software teams working in different places around the globe. 00:08:19.939 --> 00:08:23.319 She found that the most innovative and productive teams were bursty. NOTE Paragraph 00:08:23.343 --> 00:08:25.311 AWW: The more effective teams 00:08:25.335 --> 00:08:28.350 figured out when their team members were likely to be working 00:08:28.374 --> 00:08:31.650 and they would get online at a similar time 00:08:31.674 --> 00:08:35.619 and start exchanging messages, sending each other code, 00:08:35.643 --> 00:08:39.738 whereas other teams might have communicated just as much 00:08:39.762 --> 00:08:42.611 and engaged in just as much activity 00:08:42.635 --> 00:08:46.166 but kind of more dictated by their own personal schedule, 00:08:46.190 --> 00:08:49.027 and those teams were not as effective. NOTE Paragraph 00:08:49.051 --> 00:08:51.305 AG: Burstiness is a sign that you're not stuck 00:08:51.329 --> 00:08:54.058 in one of those dysfunctional brainstorming sessions. 00:08:54.376 --> 00:08:57.361 It's when a group reaches its creative peak 00:08:57.385 --> 00:09:01.210 because everyone is participating freely and contributing ideas. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:01.234 --> 00:09:05.075 AWW: I don't think that burstiness is unique to creative fields. 00:09:05.099 --> 00:09:09.606 However, I think probably creative fields do really benefit from burstiness. 00:09:09.630 --> 00:09:12.217 The people who are in the conversation are energized 00:09:12.241 --> 00:09:15.574 because when you speak, somebody's going to respond to you right away, 00:09:15.598 --> 00:09:18.472 you know they're listening and then you're listening to them, 00:09:18.496 --> 00:09:23.313 and so it's much easier to exchange ideas and maybe build ideas. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:23.861 --> 00:09:25.987 AG: But of course, burstiness looks different 00:09:26.011 --> 00:09:28.101 when your raw materials aren't bits of code 00:09:28.125 --> 00:09:29.878 but bits of comedy. 00:09:29.902 --> 00:09:33.721 In the writers' room, the burstiness doesn't just happen by accident. 00:09:33.745 --> 00:09:35.157 I asked Trevor Noah about it. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:35.610 --> 00:09:38.117 TN: So, when I'm in a writers' room, 00:09:38.141 --> 00:09:40.640 there are two things that are happening in my head. 00:09:40.664 --> 00:09:44.037 One, I'm looking at what we're going to be doing on the show that day, 00:09:44.061 --> 00:09:48.648 and two, I'm thinking about the room as a comedy room 00:09:48.672 --> 00:09:53.417 and how much laughter it is imbued with in that moment. 00:09:53.441 --> 00:09:56.645 And I know it's extremely superstitious 00:09:56.669 --> 00:09:59.895 and no one can ever prove it or not disprove it, 00:09:59.919 --> 00:10:04.355 but I believe that laughter is absorbed 00:10:04.379 --> 00:10:06.767 just like secondhand cigarette smoke 00:10:06.791 --> 00:10:09.893 into the very fabric of who we are as human beings. NOTE Paragraph 00:10:09.917 --> 00:10:13.464 AG: Watching you in the room this morning, I was intrigued by a few things. 00:10:13.488 --> 00:10:16.019 One, I expected a big change when you walked in, 00:10:16.043 --> 00:10:18.112 and there wasn't a lot that was different, 00:10:18.136 --> 00:10:21.675 which is a sign to me that you've made it incredibly psychologically safe. NOTE Paragraph 00:10:21.699 --> 00:10:23.421 AG: People are not afraid of you. NOTE Paragraph 00:10:23.445 --> 00:10:25.541 TN: Oh, in the room. Oh, that's funny. NOTE Paragraph 00:10:25.565 --> 00:10:27.818 AG: They're not freaked out that you walked in, 00:10:27.842 --> 00:10:30.913 and they're still pitching some pretty half-baked jokes. NOTE Paragraph 00:10:30.937 --> 00:10:33.197 That's called psychological safety. 00:10:33.762 --> 00:10:36.600 It's where you can take risks without feeling afraid. 00:10:37.456 --> 00:10:41.551 Without that sense of safety, creative bursts don't happen. 00:10:41.575 --> 00:10:43.345 People censor themselves. NOTE Paragraph 00:10:43.369 --> 00:10:47.329 TN: Well, I always believed that in any relationship 00:10:47.353 --> 00:10:52.233 where there is someone who is in charge, whether it's in a family, with a parent, 00:10:52.257 --> 00:10:56.305 or whether it's a teacher, whether it's a boss in a work environment, 00:10:56.329 --> 00:11:02.147 really what brings out the best in people in my opinion is a mutual respect. 00:11:02.171 --> 00:11:05.266 I trust that my writers are trying to help me make the best show, 00:11:05.290 --> 00:11:07.789 and they trust that I want to make the funniest show. 00:11:07.813 --> 00:11:11.417 It's taken a long time, but now, when I when I walk into a meeting, 00:11:11.441 --> 00:11:15.100 I'm walking into a continuing conversation. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:15.124 --> 00:11:17.891 AG: Building psychological safety takes time. 00:11:17.915 --> 00:11:20.338 It's something you create a little every day, 00:11:20.362 --> 00:11:22.623 and you can see it in small moments. 00:11:22.647 --> 00:11:25.289 There was one that caught my eye in the writers' room. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:25.313 --> 00:11:30.495 TN: I'm saying that joke you pitched, it was so good, like, even in the room. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:32.288 ZP: That was great, that went well. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:32.312 --> 00:11:33.550 AG: Did you catch that? 00:11:33.574 --> 00:11:37.153 Trevor just said that his head writer Zhubin pitched a good joke. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:37.177 --> 00:11:39.584 ZP: I'm a funny guy. I write good jokes. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:39.608 --> 00:11:43.518 AG: The whole idea of burstiness is that when the group has momentum, 00:11:43.542 --> 00:11:45.535 you want it to keep going. 00:11:45.559 --> 00:11:47.790 So I wonder why Trevor interrupted it. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:47.814 --> 00:11:49.915 AG: Is that a conscious effort on your part 00:11:49.939 --> 00:11:51.945 to praise somebody in front of the group? 00:11:51.969 --> 00:11:53.724 Or does that happen spontaneously? NOTE Paragraph 00:11:53.748 --> 00:11:55.700 TN: I think that's a subconscious thing, 00:11:55.724 --> 00:12:00.624 but I've always believed in crediting people where credit is due. 00:12:00.648 --> 00:12:02.957 Especially when you're working in an environment 00:12:02.981 --> 00:12:06.327 where all of the praise is bound to be aimed towards myself. 00:12:06.351 --> 00:12:09.590 So if something's amazing on the show, Trevor gets the credit. 00:12:09.614 --> 00:12:11.391 If something's horrible on the show, 00:12:11.415 --> 00:12:13.757 Trevor gets the credit as well, or the blame. 00:12:13.781 --> 00:12:17.312 And, so I think it just moves people forward as human beings 00:12:17.336 --> 00:12:21.097 to know that we are acknowledged in whatever we're doing. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:21.121 --> 00:12:23.589 AG: When you're in a creative group that's bursting, 00:12:23.613 --> 00:12:25.906 it's easy to lose track of who said what 00:12:25.930 --> 00:12:28.291 and whether your input even matters. 00:12:28.315 --> 00:12:29.469 Here's Daniel. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:29.493 --> 00:12:33.636 DR: It's such a blender, like, all this material gets put in 00:12:33.660 --> 00:12:36.470 and you end up with this kind of comedy smoothie at the end 00:12:36.494 --> 00:12:39.226 that tastes delicious, but you might not be able to say, 00:12:39.250 --> 00:12:41.404 "Oh, that's my strawberry that was in there." 00:12:41.428 --> 00:12:46.380 We do kind of all understand that most jokes don't make it to air, 00:12:46.404 --> 00:12:49.038 especially not as they were originally conceived. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:49.062 --> 00:12:53.157 TN: It may not be the joke that you made that ends up going on TV, 00:12:53.181 --> 00:12:55.999 but it could be the joke that makes you feel a certain way 00:12:56.023 --> 00:12:59.038 that gets you to the joke that you put on TV, 00:12:59.062 --> 00:13:01.340 and so there was a line I thought of yesterday 00:13:01.364 --> 00:13:03.968 with the Roy Moore accusations, 00:13:03.992 --> 00:13:06.102 and Sean Hannity came out to defend him. 00:13:06.126 --> 00:13:10.879 And I said, "Sean Hannity has a season ticket to the wrong side of history." 00:13:10.903 --> 00:13:13.879 And it just made me giggle. Like, you know? 00:13:13.903 --> 00:13:16.799 And then I was just like, "Yeah, I'm going to say that." 00:13:16.823 --> 00:13:20.267 And so if your day is punctuated with joy, 00:13:20.291 --> 00:13:23.862 that joy will manifest itself in the final product that is the show. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:25.571 --> 00:13:28.344 AG: We'll be back with more from Trevor and The Daily Show 00:13:28.368 --> 00:13:29.570 after the break. 00:13:29.594 --> 00:13:31.737 This is going to be a different kind of ad. 00:13:31.761 --> 00:13:34.284 In the spirit of exploring creative ideas at work, 00:13:34.308 --> 00:13:37.323 we're going to take you inside Warby Parker, our sponsor. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:38.395 --> 00:13:40.672 (Music) NOTE Paragraph 00:13:40.696 --> 00:13:44.665 AG: Warby Parker's Neil Blumenthal and Dave Gilboa have a lot in common. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:44.689 --> 00:13:48.070 Neil Blumenthal: You might not be able to tell us apart by our voices, 00:13:48.094 --> 00:13:50.220 ... but I'm Neil. Dave Gilboa: And I'm Dave. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:50.244 --> 00:13:52.998 AG: That didn't help at all. But I appreciate your trying. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:53.022 --> 00:13:54.497 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:13:54.521 --> 00:13:57.799 AG: Yep, they sound alike, they went to the same school, 00:13:57.823 --> 00:13:59.377 they have the same friends, 00:13:59.401 --> 00:14:01.474 and they also have the same job. 00:14:01.498 --> 00:14:04.327 Neil and Dave are the co-CEOs of Warby Parker, 00:14:04.351 --> 00:14:07.447 a billion-dollar company that's made buying eyeglasses cool again. 00:14:08.230 --> 00:14:11.445 I've always been fascinated with dynamic duos like Neil and Dave. 00:14:11.469 --> 00:14:13.470 Not only do they run the company together, 00:14:13.494 --> 00:14:16.599 but their collaborative leadership spreads throughout the culture. 00:14:16.623 --> 00:14:18.378 The ability to work across teams, 00:14:18.402 --> 00:14:20.998 from product to customer service to retail, 00:14:21.022 --> 00:14:23.622 has been key to Warby Parker's success. 00:14:23.646 --> 00:14:25.885 I sat down with them at headquarters in New York 00:14:25.909 --> 00:14:28.678 to talk about what it's like being the boss together. NOTE Paragraph 00:14:28.702 --> 00:14:30.464 (Music) NOTE Paragraph 00:14:30.488 --> 00:14:33.473 AG: The obvious metaphor for a co-CEO relationship 00:14:33.497 --> 00:14:35.504 is a married couple, 00:14:35.528 --> 00:14:39.830 but you both talk about it a little bit more in terms of parenting. NOTE Paragraph 00:14:39.854 --> 00:14:41.663 NB: You know, I think that's right. 00:14:41.687 --> 00:14:45.252 With parenting, you need a philosophy, right? 00:14:45.276 --> 00:14:50.521 You need a vision for what you want your children to grow up to be. NOTE Paragraph 00:14:50.545 --> 00:14:53.711 DG: It also makes the highs higher, being able to celebrate wins, 00:14:53.735 --> 00:14:55.160 and it makes the lows higher, 00:14:55.184 --> 00:15:00.549 in being able to blunt some of the frustrating parts that come up. 00:15:00.573 --> 00:15:03.929 NB: We also at times will play different roles, 00:15:03.953 --> 00:15:06.879 just like in a negotiation, there might be good cop, bad cop. 00:15:06.903 --> 00:15:09.752 Having a two-year-old and six-year-old, I know that. 00:15:09.776 --> 00:15:12.169 Rachel and I often do that as well. NOTE Paragraph 00:15:12.193 --> 00:15:14.813 AG: What's it like to lead a company with an old friend? NOTE Paragraph 00:15:14.837 --> 00:15:19.001 NB: You know, often I'm talking to other founders and CEOs, 00:15:19.025 --> 00:15:22.897 and they'll often speak to a loneliness of the role, 00:15:22.921 --> 00:15:24.857 and I've never felt that way, 00:15:24.881 --> 00:15:27.968 and one of the best things about having a partner 00:15:27.992 --> 00:15:32.691 is that you can just look at each other and laugh and crack up. 00:15:32.715 --> 00:15:35.421 Some of the situations are really difficult. 00:15:35.445 --> 00:15:37.317 Others are just absurd, 00:15:37.341 --> 00:15:40.238 and it just makes it, I think, a lot more enjoyable 00:15:40.262 --> 00:15:42.849 to have somebody alongside. NOTE Paragraph 00:15:42.873 --> 00:15:45.916 AG: What are the top three pieces of advice that you would give 00:15:45.940 --> 00:15:49.034 to somebody who is going to lead with a fellow leader? NOTE Paragraph 00:15:49.058 --> 00:15:50.986 NB: Build trust, 00:15:51.010 --> 00:15:54.583 communicate frequently, which often leads to trust, 00:15:54.607 --> 00:16:00.466 and work with somebody that you enjoy spending time with. NOTE Paragraph 00:16:00.490 --> 00:16:03.373 AG: How many hours do you think you guys have spent together 00:16:03.397 --> 00:16:04.608 in your lifetimes? NOTE Paragraph 00:16:04.632 --> 00:16:06.718 DG: Maybe 15,000 hours? NOTE Paragraph 00:16:06.742 --> 00:16:09.291 And what do they say, you need 10,000 hours 00:16:09.315 --> 00:16:10.958 to become an expert at something? NOTE Paragraph 00:16:10.982 --> 00:16:12.561 NB: We're experts in each other. NOTE Paragraph 00:16:12.585 --> 00:16:13.759 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:16:13.783 --> 00:16:15.014 NB: When do I get a ring? NOTE Paragraph 00:16:15.038 --> 00:16:16.958 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:16:16.982 --> 00:16:19.433 (Music) NOTE Paragraph 00:16:19.457 --> 00:16:21.647 AG: That was Neil Blumenthal and Dave Gilboa, 00:16:21.671 --> 00:16:24.243 co-CEOs and cofounders of Warby Parker. 00:16:24.267 --> 00:16:27.123 Warby Parker has tons of interesting frames. 00:16:27.147 --> 00:16:29.298 If you're tired of wearing contact lenses, 00:16:29.322 --> 00:16:31.218 you might want to try their monocle. 00:16:31.242 --> 00:16:32.877 Looking for somewhere to start? 00:16:32.901 --> 00:16:35.654 Their free home try-on program lets you select five frames 00:16:35.678 --> 00:16:37.400 to test out for five days. 00:16:37.424 --> 00:16:39.647 If you don't like them, you can send them back. 00:16:39.671 --> 00:16:42.529 Try it today at warbyparker.com/TED. NOTE Paragraph 00:16:42.553 --> 00:16:48.505 (Music) NOTE Paragraph 00:16:50.370 --> 00:16:52.209 AG: If you've ever brainstormed, 00:16:52.233 --> 00:16:55.307 you know you're supposed to put criticism on hold. 00:16:55.331 --> 00:16:57.211 Let every thought fly. 00:16:57.235 --> 00:16:59.387 There's no such thing as a bad idea. 00:17:00.361 --> 00:17:02.227 But actually, that's a bad idea. 00:17:03.059 --> 00:17:05.065 It turns out that people are more creative 00:17:05.089 --> 00:17:07.329 in groups where criticism is welcomed. 00:17:07.353 --> 00:17:08.880 It raises the bar. 00:17:09.475 --> 00:17:13.530 Psychological safety doesn't mean that everything is all warm and fuzzy. 00:17:13.554 --> 00:17:15.943 You still need to have standards. 00:17:15.967 --> 00:17:20.077 At The Daily Show, the writers don't let each other get away with bad jokes. NOTE Paragraph 00:17:20.101 --> 00:17:22.602 DR: You don't shit on someone for making a bad joke. 00:17:22.626 --> 00:17:24.663 I mean, you do, but, you know ... NOTE Paragraph 00:17:24.687 --> 00:17:26.146 AG: What does that look like? NOTE Paragraph 00:17:26.170 --> 00:17:28.956 ZP: I think light ribbing. NOTE Paragraph 00:17:28.980 --> 00:17:31.122 Although usually the person who made the joke 00:17:31.146 --> 00:17:33.709 is the first to joke about how bad that joke went. NOTE Paragraph 00:17:33.733 --> 00:17:37.685 AG: You create safety by helping people feel comfortable laughing at themselves. 00:17:37.709 --> 00:17:40.583 And some new experiments have shown us how to do that. 00:17:40.607 --> 00:17:42.639 It all starts with a paperclip. NOTE Paragraph 00:17:42.663 --> 00:17:45.789 (Music) NOTE Paragraph 00:17:45.813 --> 00:17:50.733 Researchers asked, "How many new uses can you come up with for this paperclip"? 00:17:50.757 --> 00:17:53.066 People went off to brainstorm. 00:17:53.090 --> 00:17:55.979 Group one generated pretty typical ideas: 00:17:56.003 --> 00:17:59.137 a ring, a bracelet, and a necklace. 00:17:59.161 --> 00:18:02.326 But group two came up with totally unexpected uses, 00:18:02.350 --> 00:18:06.634 like a wound suture, artwork and a screwdriver. 00:18:07.610 --> 00:18:09.246 What made the difference? 00:18:09.270 --> 00:18:12.929 In the first group, everyone just launched into brainstorming, 00:18:12.953 --> 00:18:14.278 but in the second group, 00:18:14.302 --> 00:18:17.199 people were randomly assigned to share an embarrassing story 00:18:17.223 --> 00:18:18.603 before the brainstorm. 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:22.061 And that simple act lowered their inhibitions. 00:18:22.785 --> 00:18:26.173 This is something they know from experience at The Daily Show. NOTE Paragraph 00:18:26.197 --> 00:18:30.665 ZP: I once misspoke about how, in order to keep flexible, 00:18:30.689 --> 00:18:33.569 we all need to keep our hips on a swivel. 00:18:33.593 --> 00:18:37.092 And I meant we've got to keep our heads on a swivel, 00:18:37.116 --> 00:18:38.910 but I said that two years ago, 00:18:38.934 --> 00:18:42.235 and in the subsequent two years, I've kept saying "hips on a swivel" 00:18:42.259 --> 00:18:44.713 because everybody says that's not right. NOTE Paragraph 00:18:44.737 --> 00:18:46.857 DR: I'm sorry, is "heads on a swivel" better? NOTE Paragraph 00:18:46.881 --> 00:18:49.626 ZP: "Heads on a swivel" is the actual term. NOTE Paragraph 00:18:49.650 --> 00:18:52.911 AG: Nothing should ever be on a swivel. DR: The Exorcist. NOTE Paragraph 00:18:52.935 --> 00:18:58.316 ZP: Regardless, every mistake you make in a comedy writers' room 00:18:58.340 --> 00:18:59.579 usually becomes a bit, 00:18:59.603 --> 00:19:03.317 and I think that only helps foster the creativity about the place. 00:19:03.341 --> 00:19:06.725 Like if we'll take the bad things you said and we'll make fun of them, 00:19:06.749 --> 00:19:10.439 that makes everyone a bit more lighthearted about speaking up. NOTE Paragraph 00:19:11.075 --> 00:19:13.473 AG: So I've been having fun talking to the writers 00:19:13.497 --> 00:19:14.847 about safety and burstiness, 00:19:14.871 --> 00:19:16.886 but I can't stop thinking about the clock. 00:19:17.816 --> 00:19:20.497 We're about three hours away from taping. 00:19:20.521 --> 00:19:22.903 Even though I'm not working on the show, 00:19:22.927 --> 00:19:25.914 I'm starting to feel a little stressed about the deadline. 00:19:25.938 --> 00:19:28.847 I asked Kat and Colleen if they are freaking out. NOTE Paragraph 00:19:28.871 --> 00:19:30.998 AG: Does it ever hit you how crazy that is 00:19:31.022 --> 00:19:34.443 that you started at 9am and you're going to have a show by the evening? NOTE Paragraph 00:19:34.467 --> 00:19:36.198 KR: It is crazy. 00:19:36.222 --> 00:19:39.484 Before I had this job, I used to think "How do they do it every day," 00:19:39.508 --> 00:19:41.127 but now you're like, "I get it." 00:19:41.151 --> 00:19:43.738 There's enough people who are very good at what they do 00:19:43.762 --> 00:19:45.404 that they make it happen. 00:19:45.428 --> 00:19:47.992 But it is. It's very fast-paced ... NOTE Paragraph 00:19:48.016 --> 00:19:51.870 CW: But this is also like a factory that's been here for a really long time. NOTE Paragraph 00:19:51.894 --> 00:19:53.045 AG: A factory? NOTE Paragraph 00:19:53.069 --> 00:19:56.093 CW: It's an extremely well-oiled machine. NOTE Paragraph 00:19:56.117 --> 00:19:57.708 KR: We also make shoes here. NOTE Paragraph 00:19:57.732 --> 00:19:58.733 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:19:58.757 --> 00:20:01.574 CW: We all have an incredibly precise contribution to make. 00:20:01.598 --> 00:20:05.296 You know how long you have to do it. You know what the quality standards are. 00:20:05.320 --> 00:20:06.737 Do you know what I'm saying? NOTE Paragraph 00:20:06.761 --> 00:20:10.586 AG: Yeah. No one seems stressed at all. People are just kind of chill, smiling. 00:20:10.610 --> 00:20:12.812 Is that how it always is? 00:20:13.343 --> 00:20:14.971 KR: I think it depends on the day, 00:20:14.995 --> 00:20:18.146 but for the most part I feel like everyone's usually pretty chill, 00:20:18.170 --> 00:20:19.532 because you never feel like, 00:20:19.556 --> 00:20:21.107 "Oh, this is coming down to me." 00:20:21.131 --> 00:20:24.559 You always know that there's going to be someone else to help you out. NOTE Paragraph 00:20:24.583 --> 00:20:27.932 CW: Yeah, feeling, like, loose, and a sense of possibility 00:20:27.956 --> 00:20:32.098 is always just a better place to operate from creatively, I think. 00:20:32.122 --> 00:20:37.637 And so even if you get that little twinkle of anxiety or whatever, 00:20:37.661 --> 00:20:40.233 inside of yourself, it just works better to go like, 00:20:40.257 --> 00:20:42.470 "You know what? I'm an ever-rushing river." 00:20:42.494 --> 00:20:45.017 It's corny, but it works for me, so I do that. NOTE Paragraph 00:20:45.954 --> 00:20:49.215 AG: The relaxed atmosphere frees them up for creative bursts. 00:20:49.239 --> 00:20:51.130 They also have the security of knowing 00:20:51.154 --> 00:20:54.365 that their days are meticulously planned and organized. 00:20:54.389 --> 00:20:56.857 In fact, there's structure everywhere, 00:20:56.881 --> 00:21:00.166 because what The Daily Show has done, consciously or not, 00:21:00.190 --> 00:21:02.800 is build task bubbles into each day. NOTE Paragraph 00:21:02.824 --> 00:21:05.397 (Music) NOTE Paragraph 00:21:05.421 --> 00:21:06.668 Task bubbles. 00:21:06.692 --> 00:21:09.367 So think of a time when you've walked into a meeting 00:21:09.391 --> 00:21:11.494 and tried to jump into the discussion, 00:21:11.518 --> 00:21:12.930 but you couldn't. 00:21:12.954 --> 00:21:15.113 It felt kind of like there was a force field 00:21:15.137 --> 00:21:17.049 that you just bounced off of. 00:21:17.073 --> 00:21:18.669 That's a task bubble, 00:21:18.693 --> 00:21:22.093 where people are totally absorbed in a common project. 00:21:22.117 --> 00:21:24.114 It keeps the group focused. 00:21:24.138 --> 00:21:27.550 That way, everyone can build on each other's ideas and bursts. 00:21:28.009 --> 00:21:31.533 Task bubbles give the writers and producers the space they need 00:21:31.557 --> 00:21:33.739 to hone and refine their ideas. 00:21:33.763 --> 00:21:36.080 Without these protected hours for collaboration, 00:21:36.104 --> 00:21:39.954 they'd all be working at different times, out of sync. NOTE Paragraph 00:21:39.978 --> 00:21:42.709 ZP: Once the writers are being sent off to write, 00:21:42.733 --> 00:21:44.765 they have, usually, two uninterrupted hours 00:21:44.789 --> 00:21:47.407 to think through what the structure of it's going to be 00:21:47.431 --> 00:21:51.112 with respect to the guidelines we've laid out, to add their jokes. 00:21:51.136 --> 00:21:54.716 The only time I interrupt is when there's been a significant change 00:21:54.740 --> 00:21:56.248 Trevor has called for 00:21:56.272 --> 00:21:59.097 or news is broken that requires an immediate edit. NOTE Paragraph 00:21:59.121 --> 00:22:01.557 AG: Too much structure can inhibit creativity, 00:22:01.581 --> 00:22:03.970 but so can too little structure. 00:22:03.994 --> 00:22:07.684 If you agree together on some rules for when and how to work, 00:22:07.708 --> 00:22:10.271 you can focus all your energy on doing the work. 00:22:11.342 --> 00:22:14.508 Here are Jen Flanz and Steve Bodow, the executive producers. NOTE Paragraph 00:22:14.857 --> 00:22:18.096 Jen Flanz: There is a myth that when you're working at a comedy show 00:22:18.120 --> 00:22:19.991 that's all fun all the time 00:22:20.015 --> 00:22:22.387 and we are bouncing a ping pong ball off the wall. 00:22:22.411 --> 00:22:25.347 It's fun, but it's run like a newsroom, a little bit. NOTE Paragraph 00:22:25.371 --> 00:22:28.727 Steve Bodow: Planning and structure: it sounds like it's rigid, 00:22:28.751 --> 00:22:31.877 but it's actually what gives you the freedom to find 00:22:31.901 --> 00:22:34.535 the creative discoveries that will make the thing sing. NOTE Paragraph 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:38.539 AG: Because of course, creativity doesn't really start with a blank page. 00:22:38.563 --> 00:22:40.650 It begins with some raw material. 00:22:40.674 --> 00:22:41.928 In The Daily Show's case, 00:22:41.952 --> 00:22:44.499 it's the news clips they play in the morning meeting. 00:22:44.523 --> 00:22:47.229 Segment producers have already reviewed hours of footage 00:22:47.253 --> 00:22:49.752 and selected the most promising clips. 00:22:49.776 --> 00:22:51.752 Once everyone is agreed on the headlines, 00:22:51.776 --> 00:22:54.870 the writers know the first act will be seven to 12 minutes long, 00:22:54.894 --> 00:22:56.917 the second should be four to seven minutes, 00:22:56.941 --> 00:22:59.611 and they know exactly how much time they have to write. 00:22:59.635 --> 00:23:03.178 I drag Dan Amira and David Kibukka out of their task bubble. 00:23:03.202 --> 00:23:05.685 They're two writers working to turn the morning riffs 00:23:05.709 --> 00:23:07.289 into a polished segment. NOTE Paragraph 00:23:07.313 --> 00:23:09.752 David Kibukka: So sometimes you have it in your head 00:23:09.776 --> 00:23:12.409 that everybody's saying the greatest jokes all the time. 00:23:12.433 --> 00:23:14.223 And then when you realize that, no -- NOTE Paragraph 00:23:14.247 --> 00:23:16.961 Dan Amira: Most of the jokes are just pure garbage. NOTE Paragraph 00:23:16.985 --> 00:23:19.746 DK: Then you're like, "Let me add to this garbage as well, 00:23:19.770 --> 00:23:22.366 and hopefully by taping time, we would have removed it 00:23:22.390 --> 00:23:24.588 and replaced it with something wonderful. 00:23:24.612 --> 00:23:28.691 Cause the first draft is not meant to be the last draft. NOTE Paragraph 00:23:28.715 --> 00:23:30.825 DA: That's why they call it the first draft. NOTE Paragraph 00:23:30.849 --> 00:23:33.869 DK: Yeah, that was a big part of the naming process. NOTE Paragraph 00:23:34.650 --> 00:23:37.686 AG: OK, structure and safety help with burstiness. 00:23:37.710 --> 00:23:40.701 But you also need the right mix of people in the room. 00:23:40.725 --> 00:23:43.349 And judging creative talent is hard. 00:23:43.373 --> 00:23:45.380 Take one of my favorite studies. 00:23:45.404 --> 00:23:48.199 Hollywood producers liked screenplays better 00:23:48.223 --> 00:23:50.028 when the writers presented themselves 00:23:50.052 --> 00:23:51.770 as hip artists or savvy marketers. 00:23:52.484 --> 00:23:56.150 Writers who wore funky glasses actually seemed to get an advantage. 00:23:57.206 --> 00:24:00.712 The Daily Show doesn't want to be swayed by those kinds of stereotypes. 00:24:00.736 --> 00:24:03.434 They want to pick the most creative writers, 00:24:03.458 --> 00:24:07.300 and executive producers Jen and Steve have a process for doing that. NOTE Paragraph 00:24:07.324 --> 00:24:08.578 JF: That's his baby. NOTE Paragraph 00:24:08.602 --> 00:24:12.974 SB: Yeah, that's something I started probably in 2008. NOTE Paragraph 00:24:12.998 --> 00:24:17.600 AG: The inspiration came from something powerful that happened in orchestras: 00:24:17.624 --> 00:24:18.949 blind auditions. NOTE Paragraph 00:24:18.973 --> 00:24:20.124 DR: We blindfold them NOTE Paragraph 00:24:20.148 --> 00:24:23.720 and bring them to a secure location. NOTE Paragraph 00:24:23.744 --> 00:24:25.210 AG: Maybe not like that. NOTE Paragraph 00:24:25.234 --> 00:24:27.217 (Music) NOTE Paragraph 00:24:27.241 --> 00:24:31.209 For years, American symphonies were dominated by men. 00:24:31.233 --> 00:24:36.574 In the 1970s, a typical ensemble had nine men for every woman. 00:24:36.598 --> 00:24:39.724 Supposedly women weren't talented enough, 00:24:39.748 --> 00:24:44.700 but by the 1990s, the gap closed to less than two to one. 00:24:44.724 --> 00:24:46.644 A huge reason that happened? 00:24:46.668 --> 00:24:49.240 The industry introduced blind auditions, 00:24:49.264 --> 00:24:52.217 where candidates played from behind a curtain. 00:24:52.241 --> 00:24:56.336 Once the evaluators couldn't see whether a performer was a man or a woman, 00:24:56.360 --> 00:24:58.463 their biases were neutralized. 00:24:58.487 --> 00:25:01.169 They focused solely on the quality of the music, 00:25:01.193 --> 00:25:03.089 and as they should've known all along, 00:25:03.113 --> 00:25:06.303 the women were just as excellent as the men. 00:25:06.327 --> 00:25:09.216 Well, The Daily Show has a similar approach. NOTE Paragraph 00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:14.890 SB: It was an effort to hopefully diversify in another important way 00:25:14.914 --> 00:25:18.080 in the show -- not on camera but in the writers' room. 00:25:18.104 --> 00:25:21.938 We'd always get submissions from writers with their names on them, 00:25:21.962 --> 00:25:26.589 and oftentimes, they may be someone you knew, or a friend of a friend. 00:25:26.613 --> 00:25:29.772 And to take that ingredient out of it, we said, 00:25:29.796 --> 00:25:31.937 "What if we just number them?" NOTE Paragraph 00:25:31.961 --> 00:25:34.208 AG: The first time they tried blind submissions, 00:25:34.232 --> 00:25:35.859 they hired three new writers, 00:25:35.883 --> 00:25:37.793 and two were women. 00:25:37.817 --> 00:25:42.603 Soon, they hired more people of color, and writers from outside America, too. 00:25:42.627 --> 00:25:45.231 So by the time Trevor joined the show, 00:25:45.255 --> 00:25:47.897 he was working with a diverse cast and crew, 00:25:47.921 --> 00:25:52.168 and it was a priority for him to continue diversifying from every angle. 00:25:52.192 --> 00:25:55.185 But at first, he wasn't sure how to bring in his own background 00:25:55.209 --> 00:25:56.645 as a South African. NOTE Paragraph 00:25:56.669 --> 00:26:00.762 TN: I got so swept up in people saying I was an outsider 00:26:00.786 --> 00:26:03.595 that I forgot that most of us are outsiders. 00:26:03.619 --> 00:26:07.366 It just depends on where we're looking in or out from. NOTE Paragraph 00:26:07.390 --> 00:26:10.635 AG: Diverse backgrounds and perspectives help with creative bursts, 00:26:10.659 --> 00:26:12.928 but we don't always realize it. 00:26:12.952 --> 00:26:15.301 When everyone in a group is the same race, 00:26:15.325 --> 00:26:19.627 they do worse at creative problem-solving but they think they do better, 00:26:19.651 --> 00:26:21.295 because they're more comfortable. 00:26:21.754 --> 00:26:23.928 Diverse groups are more creative. 00:26:23.952 --> 00:26:27.594 It's not just because they have access to a wider range of ideas. 00:26:27.618 --> 00:26:29.849 They feel more uncomfortable, 00:26:29.873 --> 00:26:33.512 and that discomfort motivates them to do extra preparation 00:26:33.536 --> 00:26:35.354 and share new information. NOTE Paragraph 00:26:35.378 --> 00:26:38.631 TN: Trump as an African dictator will always be one of my favorites, 00:26:38.655 --> 00:26:40.710 because it was the first moment on the show 00:26:40.734 --> 00:26:42.998 where people thought that I might have a chance. NOTE Paragraph 00:26:43.022 --> 00:26:46.547 AG: That segment Trevor's talking about? It came out of his own experience. NOTE Paragraph 00:26:46.571 --> 00:26:50.196 TN: It was the first segment where I realized that my uniqueness 00:26:50.220 --> 00:26:52.910 could be used as a skill, as opposed to a hindrance. 00:26:52.934 --> 00:26:55.505 My president also didn't release his tax returns, 00:26:55.529 --> 00:26:57.981 hasn't released them for the time he was president. 00:26:58.005 --> 00:27:01.552 You know, my president also has friendships with the Russians 00:27:01.576 --> 00:27:04.069 that are shady at best. 00:27:04.093 --> 00:27:08.489 In creating the show, I've now realized that I can create within the show 00:27:08.513 --> 00:27:12.473 a feeling of outsiderness, which is generally a curiosity, 00:27:12.497 --> 00:27:16.267 and that is a willingness to learn of a world that you do not know much about, 00:27:16.291 --> 00:27:18.624 and so I try and take the show into that sphere. NOTE Paragraph 00:27:18.648 --> 00:27:21.346 (Ambient rap music) NOTE Paragraph 00:27:21.370 --> 00:27:23.958 AG: At this point in the day, the writers and producers 00:27:23.982 --> 00:27:26.259 have come back together for rehearsal. 00:27:26.283 --> 00:27:28.901 Trevor's in his suit, the lights are up. 00:27:28.925 --> 00:27:31.488 It looks just like I've seen it on TV. 00:27:31.512 --> 00:27:34.128 And now, it's time to try out all the jokes. 00:27:34.631 --> 00:27:37.021 Trevor's delivering them for the first time, 00:27:37.045 --> 00:27:40.045 weaving in his own impressions of Roy Moore. NOTE Paragraph 00:27:40.069 --> 00:27:42.418 TN: Let's kick off the show with something light. 00:27:42.442 --> 00:27:47.378 Alabama GOP Senate candidate Roy Moore and his escalating sex scandal. 00:27:47.402 --> 00:27:50.100 I'm especially curious what pick-up lines Roy Moore used. 00:27:50.124 --> 00:27:53.925 Are you tired? Because you have been running away from me all day. NOTE Paragraph 00:27:53.949 --> 00:27:55.330 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:27:55.354 --> 00:27:56.869 That's a cute dress. 00:27:56.893 --> 00:28:02.789 It will look even better outside of this Tabloids Kids. Talbots Kids. NOTE Paragraph 00:28:02.813 --> 00:28:04.851 GK: Gap Kids. TN: Gap Kids? 00:28:04.875 --> 00:28:07.986 Do you have a coupon? Because my pants are 50 percent off. NOTE Paragraph 00:28:08.010 --> 00:28:10.801 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:28:10.825 --> 00:28:13.237 TN: Yesterday, a new accuser, Beverly Young Nelson, 00:28:13.261 --> 00:28:15.404 came forward to say he sexually assaulted her 00:28:15.428 --> 00:28:19.372 when she was a 16-year-old working part-time at a local restaurant, 00:28:19.396 --> 00:28:21.530 but he still says he is innocent. 00:28:21.554 --> 00:28:24.938 "I don't know that restaurant, or any other restaurant for that matter." 00:28:24.962 --> 00:28:28.025 Actually, I never ingested food. I don't even have a mouth. NOTE Paragraph 00:28:28.049 --> 00:28:30.454 (Mimics sound of speaking with one's mouth closed) NOTE Paragraph 00:28:30.478 --> 00:28:35.128 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:28:35.152 --> 00:28:37.318 I feel like Moore would still deny everything 00:28:37.342 --> 00:28:39.881 even if there was a picture of him at the restaurant 00:28:39.905 --> 00:28:41.896 for winning a pancake-eating contest. NOTE Paragraph 00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:45.749 AG: At the end of every rehearsal, the writers and producers swarm the set. NOTE Paragraph 00:28:45.773 --> 00:28:48.312 DK: Sometimes you'll have a script where you're like, 00:28:48.336 --> 00:28:52.239 "This script is magic. We don't even need to -- why are we rehearsing? 00:28:52.263 --> 00:28:53.862 Guys! Why are we rehearsing?" 00:28:53.886 --> 00:28:56.263 And then you go to rehearsal, and you're like, 00:28:56.287 --> 00:28:58.279 "Does anyone have any other ideas?" NOTE Paragraph 00:28:58.303 --> 00:29:01.796 AG: And right now, it looks like the creative team has some feedback. NOTE Paragraph 00:29:01.820 --> 00:29:04.233 ZP: I think we need to rewrite some of these jokes. 00:29:04.257 --> 00:29:07.605 Like the last one, "I feel like Moore, even if there's a picture of him 00:29:07.629 --> 00:29:11.289 at the restaurant winning a pancake contest," it's not jokey. NOTE Paragraph 00:29:11.313 --> 00:29:15.567 SB: It needs a coat of rewrite on it, but it's structurally fine. NOTE Paragraph 00:29:15.591 --> 00:29:18.758 ZP: A total rewrite? TN: A coat of rewrites. NOTE Paragraph 00:29:18.782 --> 00:29:21.504 SB: We need to throw it out and do something different. NOTE Paragraph 00:29:21.528 --> 00:29:24.265 AG: A rewrite? Seriously? 00:29:24.289 --> 00:29:25.917 I thought it was pretty funny, 00:29:25.941 --> 00:29:28.526 but the writers and producers weren't satisfied. 00:29:28.550 --> 00:29:31.867 They only have about an hour to work on their final material, 00:29:31.891 --> 00:29:35.740 and I'm left to wonder what's going on behind closed doors. NOTE Paragraph 00:29:35.764 --> 00:29:38.232 CW: There's a satanic ritual ... No. NOTE Paragraph 00:29:38.256 --> 00:29:40.154 KR: There's a rewrite room, 00:29:40.178 --> 00:29:43.908 which is pretty much just, like, Trevor, head writer, producers. NOTE Paragraph 00:29:43.932 --> 00:29:45.291 CW: It's a very small room. 00:29:45.315 --> 00:29:48.163 There's like eight or nine people kind of crammed in there. NOTE Paragraph 00:29:48.187 --> 00:29:50.266 KR: Pants are optional. CW: Healthy snacks. NOTE Paragraph 00:29:50.290 --> 00:29:52.574 KR: Going through the whole script top to bottom 00:29:52.598 --> 00:29:55.803 and just making sure everything's as punchy and strong as it can be. NOTE Paragraph 00:29:55.827 --> 00:29:58.908 AG: Now it's out of their hands, and the show goes live. 00:29:58.932 --> 00:30:01.904 Here's Trevor on air, skewering Roy Moore. NOTE Paragraph 00:30:03.024 --> 00:30:05.897 TN: This guy, he's a legend. He's a legend. 00:30:05.921 --> 00:30:08.937 It's almost like his past self is snitching on his future self. NOTE Paragraph 00:30:08.961 --> 00:30:10.000 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:30:10.024 --> 00:30:13.150 Because everything he denies, he already pre-confessed. 00:30:13.174 --> 00:30:14.770 Like, now I want him to be like, 00:30:14.794 --> 00:30:17.175 "I definitely never sat down at that restaurant." 00:30:17.199 --> 00:30:20.287 "Really? This booth has your name carved into it." 00:30:20.311 --> 00:30:22.018 "Well, I never ate anything there." 00:30:22.042 --> 00:30:25.792 "Your picture's on the wall, for the pancake-eating contest." 00:30:25.816 --> 00:30:29.387 Look, I don't know how this whole thing is going to end up, but as of now, 00:30:29.411 --> 00:30:31.657 both the Senate and House Republican leadership 00:30:31.681 --> 00:30:33.570 have called on Roy Moore to step down. 00:30:33.594 --> 00:30:36.308 And it looks like he might be expelled from the Senate, 00:30:36.332 --> 00:30:38.025 if he wins the election. 00:30:38.049 --> 00:30:41.136 Now I'm not saying he's not a good fit for the Senate, 00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:45.914 but 40 years ago, he wrote in a yearbook, "I'm not good for the Senate." NOTE Paragraph 00:30:45.938 --> 00:30:47.023 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:30:47.047 --> 00:30:48.289 We'll be right back. NOTE Paragraph 00:30:48.313 --> 00:30:49.356 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 00:30:49.380 --> 00:30:52.585 AG: Trevor and his creative team do this day in and day out. 00:30:53.300 --> 00:30:55.323 After watching them make a whole show, 00:30:55.347 --> 00:30:58.569 it's clear that these people know each other remarkably well. 00:30:59.220 --> 00:31:01.968 They know who will have a funny take on each topic, 00:31:01.992 --> 00:31:03.822 which writers to pair together, 00:31:03.846 --> 00:31:06.721 which producers have the best expertise on each segment, 00:31:06.745 --> 00:31:09.163 and who can straighten out a messy script. 00:31:09.187 --> 00:31:10.498 Here's Steve. NOTE Paragraph 00:31:10.522 --> 00:31:14.553 SB: Because we have so many shows to do, 160 a year, 00:31:14.577 --> 00:31:16.672 there is not a hell of a lot of time 00:31:16.696 --> 00:31:18.736 for taking retreats 00:31:18.760 --> 00:31:21.824 or doing dry runs of things. 00:31:21.848 --> 00:31:23.546 The way you do new process, 00:31:23.570 --> 00:31:26.023 or the way that you get people to work together, 00:31:26.047 --> 00:31:28.053 is by making a show and making another show 00:31:28.077 --> 00:31:30.078 and then making another show. NOTE Paragraph 00:31:30.102 --> 00:31:33.014 AG: Groups aren't always bad for creativity. 00:31:33.038 --> 00:31:35.511 Maybe we've just studied them the wrong way. NOTE Paragraph 00:31:35.535 --> 00:31:37.854 (Music) NOTE Paragraph 00:31:37.878 --> 00:31:41.272 We've rarely tracked groups that have created safety and structure 00:31:41.296 --> 00:31:44.038 over years of working together. 00:31:44.062 --> 00:31:47.281 So no matter how good you get at finding the right people, 00:31:47.305 --> 00:31:49.432 if you want a group to have creative bursts, 00:31:49.456 --> 00:31:52.837 what matters most is the time you spend getting to know each other. 00:31:52.861 --> 00:31:57.225 It's a twist on the idea that 10,000 hours of practice helps you become an expert. 00:31:57.249 --> 00:32:00.217 Normally, we think that means practicing a skill solo, 00:32:00.241 --> 00:32:02.320 but if group creativity is your goal, 00:32:02.344 --> 00:32:05.486 maybe you should be practicing together. 00:32:05.510 --> 00:32:07.779 I think we should take groups more seriously, 00:32:07.803 --> 00:32:10.541 as an essential unit of creativity. 00:32:10.565 --> 00:32:12.977 Instead of looking for creative individuals, 00:32:13.001 --> 00:32:15.615 what if we hired intact creative groups? 00:32:15.922 --> 00:32:18.532 And instead of promoting individual superstars, 00:32:18.556 --> 00:32:21.253 what if we promoted entire teams? 00:32:21.277 --> 00:32:25.419 Because the best creative groups aren't just the sum of their parts, 00:32:25.443 --> 00:32:28.030 they're the sum of their shared experience. NOTE Paragraph 00:32:28.054 --> 00:32:33.895 (Music) NOTE Paragraph 00:32:33.919 --> 00:32:36.028 WorkLife is hosted by me, Adam Grant. 00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:37.877 The show is produced by TED 00:32:37.901 --> 00:32:40.687 with Transmitter Media and Pineapple Street Media. 00:32:40.711 --> 00:32:43.440 Our team includes Colin Helms, Gretta Cohen, 00:32:43.464 --> 00:32:46.527 Dan O'Donnell, Angela Cheng and Janet Lee. 00:32:46.551 --> 00:32:49.153 This episode was produced by Gabrielle Lewis. 00:32:49.177 --> 00:32:52.391 Our show is mixed by David Herman with help from Dan Dezula. 00:32:52.415 --> 00:32:54.867 Original music by Hans Dale Stevens. 00:32:54.891 --> 00:32:56.708 Special thanks to our sponsors, 00:32:56.732 --> 00:33:01.660 Warby Parker, Accenture, Bonobos and JPMorgan Chase. NOTE Paragraph 00:33:01.684 --> 00:33:02.911 Next time on WorkLife, 00:33:02.935 --> 00:33:06.331 we're going to India to meet the Butler Bulldogs, 00:33:06.355 --> 00:33:09.149 a basketball team with a weird way of building a culture 00:33:09.173 --> 00:33:10.418 and beating the odds. NOTE Paragraph 00:33:10.442 --> 00:33:12.823 Man: I had those five guys in my office, 00:33:12.847 --> 00:33:16.026 and, you know, my biggest, most daunting task was, 00:33:16.050 --> 00:33:17.673 how do you choose captain? 00:33:17.697 --> 00:33:19.688 I brought them all in, and I just said, 00:33:19.712 --> 00:33:23.076 "Hey, we've got 12 guys on the team, but all five of you are captains. 00:33:23.100 --> 00:33:25.078 So 40 percent of our team were captains. NOTE Paragraph 00:33:25.102 --> 00:33:27.433 You know, the one thing, Adam, I didn't want do? 00:33:27.457 --> 00:33:29.378 I didn't want to disempower one of them. NOTE Paragraph 00:33:29.402 --> 00:33:31.016 AG: That's next time on WorkLife. 00:33:31.040 --> 00:33:33.730 Thanks for listening, and if you like what you hear, 00:33:33.754 --> 00:33:37.150 we would all really appreciate it if you could rate and review the show. 00:33:37.174 --> 00:33:39.223 It helps other people find us. NOTE Paragraph 00:33:39.247 --> 00:33:40.405 See you next week. NOTE Paragraph 00:33:40.429 --> 00:33:42.031 (Music)