[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.00,0:00:04.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:04.77,0:00:07.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: We're at the\NMuseum of Modern Art looking
Dialogue: 0,0:00:07.17,0:00:09.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at a really famous collage.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:09.89,0:00:12.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's Jean Arp, sometimes\Nknown as Hans Arp.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:12.93,0:00:14.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's an untitled\Nobject, but it's always
Dialogue: 0,0:00:14.63,0:00:17.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,known as Collage\Nwith Squares Arranged
Dialogue: 0,0:00:17.10,0:00:18.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,According to the Laws of Chance.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:18.58,0:00:20.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's exactly what it is.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:20.05,0:00:23.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a gray piece of\Npaper, construction paper,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:23.99,0:00:25.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,almost children's\Nconstruction paper.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.96,0:00:30.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's got some cream colored\Nand almost denim blue colored
Dialogue: 0,0:00:30.93,0:00:33.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,squares that have been\Nripped into these shapes
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.59,0:00:35.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then scattered\Non the surface.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:35.88,0:00:39.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: What strikes me\Nis what year we're at, which is
Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.55,0:00:41.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,1916 and '17's,\Nsort of at the end--
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.63,0:00:42.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: We're right\Nin the middle of the war--
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.09,0:00:42.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: --of the First,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.55,0:00:43.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: --or\Nthe end, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:43.48,0:00:45.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: --middle end\Nof the First World War.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:45.52,0:00:49.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what strikes me is how far\Nwe've come from Les Demoiselles
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.85,0:00:52.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,d'Avignon, which is 1907.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:52.28,0:00:53.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And really how radical--
Dialogue: 0,0:00:53.60,0:00:54.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: --Ten years.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:54.72,0:00:59.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: --yeah, but how\Nradical Dada was for a time.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:59.10,0:01:02.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have a completely\Nabstract work.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:02.51,0:01:07.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have it not arranged with\Nany kind of artistic intention.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:07.90,0:01:10.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: It really\Nbegins to play fast and loose
Dialogue: 0,0:01:10.50,0:01:13.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the very definition\Nof what a work of art is.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:13.05,0:01:14.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: Yes, absolutely.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:14.26,0:01:15.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: It sort\Nof rips at the heart
Dialogue: 0,0:01:15.50,0:01:17.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what our definition\Nis historically.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:17.12,0:01:19.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: It's\Nnot self-expression.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.25,0:01:20.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not skill.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.65,0:01:22.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not an expression\Nof the unconscious,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.99,0:01:26.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even, like surrealism\Nwould claim later.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:26.38,0:01:29.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: So it's\Nactually in some ways
Dialogue: 0,0:01:29.45,0:01:31.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,still really\Nchallenging in that--
Dialogue: 0,0:01:31.41,0:01:32.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: It is.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:32.20,0:01:34.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: --in\Nthat we look at painting
Dialogue: 0,0:01:34.03,0:01:36.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the decisions of the artist.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.03,0:01:37.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And here that's been given up.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:37.49,0:01:38.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: Completely.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:38.49,0:01:39.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: It is a\Nkind of real anti-art.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.97,0:01:40.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a--
Dialogue: 0,0:01:40.46,0:01:40.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: It is\Na real anti-art.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:40.95,0:01:42.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER:\N--real destruction
Dialogue: 0,0:01:42.32,0:01:43.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the very\Nfoundation with which
Dialogue: 0,0:01:43.90,0:01:45.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we understand how to deal with
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.38,0:01:45.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: It is.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.88,0:01:46.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: --an\Nobject in space.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:46.67,0:01:47.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: And,\Nit still is, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.99,0:01:49.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: And it's\Nan extraordinary thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:49.95,0:01:51.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So how can we\Nunderstand this though,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:51.81,0:01:52.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the context of the war?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:52.89,0:01:55.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You mentioned that\Nthis was 1916, 1917.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:55.12,0:01:55.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:55.83,0:01:56.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER:\NThe war is raging.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:56.32,0:01:57.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's unprecedented.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:57.79,0:02:00.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But this is being\Nmade in Zurich.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:00.26,0:02:03.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, Arp was one of the\Nfounders of the Zurich Dada
Dialogue: 0,0:02:03.76,0:02:06.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,movement, and Zurich, of\Ncourse, is a neutral--
Dialogue: 0,0:02:06.19,0:02:07.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: Country.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:07.17,0:02:07.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: It's--
Dialogue: 0,0:02:07.65,0:02:08.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: Switzerland.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:08.14,0:02:10.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: --in Switzerland,\Na neutral country, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.93,0:02:12.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I guess I'm just\Nwondering, where
Dialogue: 0,0:02:12.43,0:02:16.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the relationship between\Nthis kind of aggression
Dialogue: 0,0:02:16.06,0:02:20.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,against the traditions of\Nart and the violence that's
Dialogue: 0,0:02:20.47,0:02:21.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,taking place across Europe.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:21.60,0:02:23.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: Well, I think\Nthe answer that's usually
Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.76,0:02:25.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,given to that is that\Nthis sort of emphasis
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.66,0:02:29.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on rational and on human reason\Nwas part of bourgeois culture
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.96,0:02:30.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that had created
Dialogue: 0,0:02:30.71,0:02:31.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: The violence.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:31.87,0:02:34.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: The violence\Nand the irrationalness
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.36,0:02:37.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of World War I. But\Nwhat strikes me also
Dialogue: 0,0:02:37.42,0:02:40.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is just the irrationality\Npeople-- because this
Dialogue: 0,0:02:40.73,0:02:44.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is something created according\Nto the laws of chance.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:44.60,0:02:46.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And people are being\Ncalled to the war.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:46.67,0:02:47.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're being drafted.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:47.59,0:02:49.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're sent to the front lines.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:49.41,0:02:50.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They live, they\Ndie, they suffer.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:50.82,0:02:52.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: It\Nwas all chance.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:52.19,0:02:54.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: They get\Nlegs and limbs amputated,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:54.85,0:02:57.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all basically on a\Nroll of the dice.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:57.42,0:02:58.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.26,0:02:59.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Arp would have seen that.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:59.75,0:03:01.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The number of veterans\Nthat came back--
Dialogue: 0,0:03:01.51,0:03:02.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: Everyone saw it.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:02.72,0:03:04.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: --who\Nwere deformed, who had--
Dialogue: 0,0:03:04.71,0:03:04.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: Post-traumatic\Nstress syndrome.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:04.80,0:03:07.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: --limbs blasted,\Nwho had been exposed to gas
Dialogue: 0,0:03:07.80,0:03:09.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and been disfigured,\Nwas extraordinary.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.49,0:03:11.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then those that\Ncame back unscathed.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:11.16,0:03:14.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: Right, what\Nrules are there in life?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:14.48,0:03:18.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where is the rationality\Nfor what happens to who
Dialogue: 0,0:03:18.85,0:03:19.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for what reason?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.88,0:03:22.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STEVEN ZUCKER: It actually\Nmakes the absurdity of this
Dialogue: 0,0:03:22.31,0:03:24.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,object somehow\Nmuch more profound.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:24.76,0:03:26.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETH HARRIS: Yep.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:26.50,0:03:34.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,