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<i>L'évolution du ballet</i>

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in collaboration with[br]<i>l'École supérieure de ballet du Québec</i>

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presents One career, One story[br]An interview with Rhodnie Désir

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"L'évolution du ballet",[br]an initiative led by young people,

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not only invites Canada's youth[br]to rally around equity, reconciliation

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and racism against Black persons[br]within the ballet world,

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but also gives them the means[br]to achieve this goal.

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The talk is presented[br]by two leaders of the project

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- Hello, my name is Victoria,[br]- And I'm Héloïse

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and welcome to One Career, One Story[br]A discussion with Rhodnie Désir.

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This is a learning session[br]for the Ballet Forward project,

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which is a project that brings together[br]about 30 students

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from Canada's five major[br]professional ballet schools.

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It is a project that allows us[br]to address issues of fairness,

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reconciliation and racism

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directed towards Blacks[br]in the ballet world,

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but more importantly,[br]to find ways to combat these issues.

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Our goal is to make the ballet world[br]as well as the artistic world

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more inclusive and accessible[br]to the entire Canadian population.

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So today, we have the chance[br]and the great honour

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to welcome Rhodnie Désir.

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Mrs. Désir is a documentary choreographer,[br]dancer and chief creative officer

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with RD Créations, her own company.

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She has produced around 30 creations

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and recently collaborated[br]with Danse Danse.

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Some of her projects earned her[br]two Montreal dance awards :

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the Envol Award and the Dance Grand Prix.

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Rhodnie's choreographic signature[br]is linked to her roots in Haiti,

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as well as other parts of the Caribbean,[br]Africa, Central Africa,

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and sub-Saharan Africa.

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We can refer to her style[br]as "Afro-contemporary".

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Rhodnie is an amazing and inspiring woman

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and most importantly,[br]she's truly involved in the community,

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which earned her[br]international recognition.

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Thank you very much, Rhodnie,[br]for being with us today.

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I will hand over to you,

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so you can talk to us[br]about your career and everything.

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Thank you, thank you very much[br]for this introduction.

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It's a real joy to be with you,

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because it takes me back[br]to the time when I was your age

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and was dreaming of making[br]a career in this field.

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How would I summarize my career?

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I think it's important[br]to mention that I grew up...,

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I have been dancing[br]since I was three years old

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and my initial training[br]was classical ballet.

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And later on, I wanted[br]to join the artistic world,

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but of course, as I was coming[br]from a Haitian family,

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the understanding[br]and explanation were like,

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"We want to make sure that you can[br]get by in life and in the arts,

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and maybe that's not the right path."

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That was the mindset back then.

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So, I went looking for another training,

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while I was still pursuing[br]my dance classes.

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Which means that I was pursuing[br]two diplomas at the same time,

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one in communication and marketing,

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and another one in dance,[br]which was classical dance back then.

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However, at the same time,

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I directed my practice a little more[br]towards Afro-contemporary dances,

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as you have explained correctly.

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I would summarize my career[br]as a succession of milestones

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where I would constantly[br]evaluate how far I've gone,

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and how I can be useful,

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how my dancing can be useful,[br]and how art can be useful.

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And I like to say that[br]what I'm doing today,

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is what is called[br]“documentary choreography”

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and we can delve more into the subject.

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It is a methodology[br]that I wanted to develop

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to achieve my own ambition.

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But maybe in five years,

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dancing will help me[br]to think about architecture.

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Then maybe in ten years,[br]it will help me to consider

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developing a new cultural hub.

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I see dance as an element of my career,

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as a tool to open new doors.

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And that's how I would summarize[br]the vision of my career.

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You mentioned that you are[br]a documentary choreographer.

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I'm not sure what it means,[br]can you please further explain?

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You also said that you are [br]a Chief Creative Officer,

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when we last spoke,

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so these are the two things[br]I would like to know.

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Actually, one thing I can say[br]is that what I'm currently doing

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is exactly what I was doing[br]when I was seven years old.

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When I was young,[br]I used to live in Laval,

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in a community nearby, for people [br]who live outside of Montreal,

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it's not very far[br]from the city of Montreal.

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And I was simply curious[br]about my neighbours, about humans,

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and I wanted to understand[br]how humans work.

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So, some might say[br]that it is a journalistic approach,

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others, that it is[br]an anthropological approach.

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But in all of this, I just wanted[br]to understand how humans work.

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Then I realized that dancing[br]and asking questions,

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when you create, when you want to create,

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may sometimes lead you[br]to make some assumptions.

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What is documentary choreography?

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I could summarize it by saying[br]that it's done in four main stages.

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Often, an idea will arise in me[br]when I see a social challenge.

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For instance,

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if I consider the current situation[br]around deportations

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happening in the United States,

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it's a disaster, it's chaos,

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and it raises a lot of questions[br]regarding injustice and unfairness

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throughout the world.

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In relation to that,

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I can choose to either get angry[br]in front of my screen or to wonder,

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How about interviewing people[br]with different mindsets,

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so I can better understand[br]what's going on,

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and then maybe I could make use of my art

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to offer a vision,

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a hypothesis in relation[br]to what's going on.

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So, I start by holding interviews.

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I have my question: What is bothering me?

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What's making my stomach ache?

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What makes me want to scream, to shout,[br]what is it that seems so unfair to me?

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After that, I ask myself:[br]Who could I meet?

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And then, I will go and meet[br]some experts in a specific field.

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On this topic, they may be sociologists,[br]politicians, social workers,

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migrant-hosting organizations

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or people with connections

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with the communities[br]who are being deported.

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They could be family members,

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or the very people who are being deported,[br]who are being transferred,

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they could be policemen, policewomen.

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From there on, my backpack[br]is full of information.

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And there are lots of tools in it.

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Then, as I reshuffle[br]those tools in my bag,

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I can hand some of them over[br]to some musicians who might say,

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"I can hear a rhythm there."

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And this rhythm might inspire me[br]to make some types of gestures,

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gestures that are more circular

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or that have more weight,[br]more physicality, more poise,

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movements that are sharper,

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because someone's telling me,[br]"It's going so fast, I am confused."

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So, the image arising in me[br]from these words,

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is one of sharpness, of physicality,

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weight, aerobatics,

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flowing down to the ground.

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So, I start from my idea, [br]from the question,

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I bring this to the witnesses,[br]to the specialists,

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the specialists are the human element.

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Their testimonies take me away[br]towards other creators and designers.

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I bring this to the interpreters,

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and all along this line of process,[br]I also compose songs.

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I compose songs in an invented language.

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I like to say that it's a language[br]that I don't speak,

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but that I speak secretly.

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And after that,

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I arrive at the work phase.

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This work is a hypothesis[br]that I offer to the citizens

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who become my audience.

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So, documentary choreography allows us

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to preserve the peoples' memories,

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it allows us to excavate social issues[br]based on orality.

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It eventually takes me back to one[br]of my great loves which is orality.

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Through the ages,

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oral tradition, which means [br]speaking to each other,

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telling stories to each other,

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"I tell you something, keep it secret...",

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has transcended all ages.

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I think it will beat AI[br]for a very long time.

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So, I rely on this basis,

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then after that, I can develop my work

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and that's what I have been doing [br]through most of my works.

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So, that led me [br]to connect with specialists :

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experts in social sciences, [br]anthropology, history,

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ethnomusicology, ethnology[br]and what have you,

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to connect with environment specialists

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in relation to climate change[br]as requested.

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It got me to connect with specialists[br]like, at the present time,

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experts in theology, thanatology,[br]and astrophysics.

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Now, how will the body deploy this[br]through documentary choreography?

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It's about listening,

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then trying to put your body[br]and knowledge at the service of the cause.

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That's all I can say.

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So that's it, it was a lot of talk,

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but basically, this is what[br]documentary choreography is about,

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I hope it was clear.

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I've watched videos of a choregraphy[br]that you have created about the heart.

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That's right.

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I found it really beautiful,

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but I think that,[br]it's documentary choreography,

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you really represented[br]not the heart just like that,

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but the actual human heart in motion.

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I saw some videos[br]and I found it really beautiful.

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What is really interesting,

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actually, what I find fascinating[br]with documentary choreographies,

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is that truly, [br]I could do this all my life.

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It's the one thing, I can tell myself,[br]when I'm 90 years old,

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I can still reflect on

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how we could explain to people

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the challenges experienced by young people

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who cannot find their bearings,[br]for example.

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Or by a five year old child[br]who suffers from malnutrition

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but who still has to go to school.

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How can we tell[br]the story of his resilience?

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What's interesting[br]about the story of the heart,

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about <i>Symphonie de cœurs</i>,

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is that I always thought [br]that I'd never create a work about love,

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because I don't think[br]that I have a lot to say,

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and the theme in itself[br]does not impress me that much.

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It's not that I don't care[br]about actual love,

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but because I couldn't find any core[br]that I wanted to address.

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And when I became interested[br]in cardiovascular diseases

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and stories of resilience [br]that people live through,

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and how, within the body,

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the heart and the entire[br]cardiovascular system,

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which is in direct connection[br]with the dancing process, works,

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and going into operating rooms,[br]seeing open hearts,

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and the whole system as it moves,

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and seeing how the surgical teams[br]in the operating rooms work,

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which are actual choreographies[br]being performed before your eyes...

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As I left these spaces,[br]I had plenty of materials,

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which I could use,[br]together with the conductor,

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to provide guidance to the orchestra.

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I would say things like,

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"Now they should play[br]with more affirmation,

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because when instruments fall[br]in the operating room,

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I need us to create real chaos[br]in order to set the scene."

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I was able to recount[br]each step of the cardiac transplant,

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what actually is emptiness like,

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and I was able to tell the musicians,

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"You've been excelling at playing[br]the same thing for maybe 40 years,

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but now, I need you to act[br]as if you didn't know how to play anymore,

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because that is[br]what a cardiac transplant is about.

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A new heart is implanted in your body,

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your body is on the blink,

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and no matter how top-notch[br]your technique may be,

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you must instantly drop it all

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and start again from scratch.

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So that was a challenge[br]also for the musicians.

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In other words, [br]documentary choreography,

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to make a long story short,

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is really a tool that allows us[br]to better challenge dance,

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to better challenge the power of art,

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and to better challenge

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where the human being stands[br]today in society.

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It's really fascinating.

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It's clear that you are very present

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and involved in all social problems.

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Is there a personal reason or story

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why you became truly interested

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in the problems we face[br]in our society today?

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Was there something personal[br]that really gave birth

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to this urge to research and create?

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Yes, actually,

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I can mention that in 2014...

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I started choreographic methodology[br]in 2015.

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That's when I officially started[br]the documentary choreography methodology.

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In 2013, I created a piece called <i>BOW'T</i>

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which talks about migration[br]and deportation,

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and I wanted to establish a bridge[br]between these two themes.

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And when the time came[br]to tour this <i>BOW'T</i> piece,

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here in Montreal, in Quebec,

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my agent and I came up[br]against systemic barriers.

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How were they expressed?

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Mainly, we were told things like,[br]"Rhodnie's dance is very traditional",

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whereas I have never performed[br]traditional dances in my created works.

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I did take classes,

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but it has nothing to do[br]with what I present.

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So I realized that there was really[br]a big misunderstanding issue

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and many hurdles were raised

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beyond a mere analysis[br]of the excellence of my work,

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of whether it is excellent or not,

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if the understanding[br]of what excellence can be

0:13:48.092,0:13:52.700
for a work expressed in a language[br]that is not that of classical ballet

0:13:52.700,0:13:55.095
or eurocentric contemporary dance,

0:13:55.900,0:13:58.740
how contemporary dance is vulgarized,

0:13:59.080,0:14:00.640
I saw that there were barriers,

0:14:00.640,0:14:02.678
and a lot of education[br]was yet to be done.

0:14:03.019,0:14:05.929
So, I wanted to leave the milieu,

0:14:06.200,0:14:08.460
as I couldn't picture myself[br]in it anymore.

0:14:08.705,0:14:11.569
But a beautiful life saver manifested

0:14:12.005,0:14:13.864
in the shape of an idea,

0:14:14.175,0:14:18.322
which was to develop a project[br]whereby I would demonstrate

0:14:18.645,0:14:21.220
to what extent African[br]and Afrodescendant cultures

0:14:21.220,0:14:23.559
are purely contemporary.

0:14:23.904,0:14:28.574
And even if they are ancestral,

0:14:28.574,0:14:29.936
they are indeed contemporary

0:14:29.936,0:14:33.850
because they directly combine[br]with the people who are creating

0:14:33.850,0:14:35.434
and renewing it in the present moment.

0:14:35.715,0:14:37.216
So I created <i>BOW'T TRAIL</i>.

0:14:37.216,0:14:39.754
<i>BOW'T TRAIL</i> is a remembrance journey[br]through the Americas,

0:14:40.035,0:14:42.345
which led me to seven territories[br]across the Americas

0:14:42.345,0:14:44.310
where I re-created each time[br]the same piece.

0:14:44.675,0:14:47.880
When I say "re-create",[br]I mean that there is the <i>BOW'T</i> work,

0:14:47.880,0:14:49.570
there are like walls on the stage,

0:14:49.930,0:14:52.031
there is my body, there is a musician,

0:14:52.640,0:14:54.570
and there are three wooden boxes.

0:14:54.570,0:14:57.990
These three wooden boxes[br]followed me to Martinique, to Haiti,

0:14:57.990,0:15:01.650
to Brazil, to New Orleans,[br]to Mexico, to Halifax

0:15:01.650,0:15:03.710
and to [Chojag] Montreal.

0:15:04.315,0:15:06.837
So I took the same piece of work[br]and I challenged myself,

0:15:06.837,0:15:10.642
What if I gave myself 30 days[br]to re-create it from A to Z

0:15:11.482,0:15:13.512
with some local musicians?

0:15:14.215,0:15:16.865
As a matter of fact,[br]I didn't know the musicians,

0:15:16.865,0:15:18.632
I didn't know if we would get along,

0:15:18.710,0:15:21.526
we didn't even speak the same language,[br]I didn't speak Portuguese.

0:15:21.526,0:15:24.697
I would mumble some pidgin words[br]to try to say,

0:15:25.580,0:15:28.510
"Can we develop this?[br]Here is my idea", while I was in Brazil.

0:15:28.510,0:15:29.777
And they would reply, “Rhodnie,

0:15:29.777,0:15:31.565
we don't know what language[br]you are speaking.

0:15:31.565,0:15:34.059
The show is in two weeks' time[br]and we don't understand,

0:15:34.059,0:15:36.945
but based on your gestures,[br]I guess we understand each other."

0:15:37.125,0:15:39.815
So eventually, dance opened doors for me,

0:15:39.815,0:15:41.975
helped me speak languages[br]that I could not speak,

0:15:41.975,0:15:43.230
and create succesfully.

0:15:43.345,0:15:44.530
Then after 30 days,

0:15:44.530,0:15:48.042
I presented my work[br]at a remembrance place.

0:15:48.430,0:15:51.649
And the <i>BOW'T</i> work that was created[br]in each one of those countries

0:15:51.649,0:15:54.970
will never tour,[br]not in my life, not in my death.

0:15:54.970,0:15:57.890
It's already written in my will,[br]it will not tour.

0:15:58.210,0:16:01.176
The only work that can tour[br]is <i>BOW’T TRAIL Rétrospek</i>,

0:16:02.376,0:16:04.811
a work where in fact,[br]the territory is my body.

0:16:05.135,0:16:06.624
And as I was tracing back the memory

0:16:06.624,0:16:09.281
and the history of Afrodescendant peoples[br]in the Americas,

0:16:09.535,0:16:13.710
I conducted interviews with specialists[br]in each one of the territories,

0:16:14.025,0:16:17.921
and I realized that it's really trippy.

0:16:18.530,0:16:19.879
It's hard to perform <i>BOW'T TRAIL</i>,

0:16:19.879,0:16:24.500
but there is something beautiful[br]and crispy about meeting people,

0:16:24.710,0:16:29.162
going straight back to the studio,[br]and creating from these testimonies,

0:16:29.425,0:16:31.690
rather than burying yourself[br]in history books,

0:16:31.690,0:16:32.722
because, once again,

0:16:32.722,0:16:37.128
history is poorly told in history books[br]about African and Afrodescendant issues.

0:16:37.128,0:16:38.936
At least, their history[br]is being rewritten,

0:16:38.936,0:16:40.605
but unfortunately, it was poorly written.

0:16:40.825,0:16:45.210
What drives me to keep doing[br]documentary choreography today?

0:16:45.210,0:16:48.876
Because I see that it is a tool[br]for social change,

0:16:48.876,0:16:50.110
for a possible social change.

0:16:50.570,0:16:53.784
What drives me to create[br]in the face of injustices?

0:16:54.970,0:16:59.525
I grew up in a family[br]where issues around human rights

0:17:01.105,0:17:03.094
were discussed at the dining table.

0:17:03.675,0:17:09.485
My parents came to Quebec[br]during the Duvalier Sr. era,

0:17:09.485,0:17:12.714
so for sure, the Haitian radio station,

0:17:13.190,0:17:14.898
plus the Quebec radio station

0:17:15.510,0:17:19.998
and the US TV channel were all on[br]at the same time at my place.

0:17:20.340,0:17:22.801
I would hear about challenges[br]occurring in all kinds of places

0:17:23.000,0:17:25.630
and my parents would encourage us

0:17:26.560,0:17:29.782
to talk with confidence[br]about those issues,

0:17:29.782,0:17:32.184
and to try to solve them[br]while we were sitting at the table.

0:17:32.184,0:17:34.776
We could talk about the Colombia issue

0:17:34.776,0:17:37.672
and we would go, "Ah, we don't agree,[br]what's going on there?"

0:17:37.672,0:17:39.625
And we would debate the subject[br]around the table.

0:17:39.625,0:17:45.577
So, I was trained to reflect

0:17:45.577,0:17:47.503
about how, as a human being,

0:17:48.320,0:17:51.970
we have a role in the decisions we make,

0:17:52.260,0:17:57.061
but also to be aware [br]of social inequalities,

0:17:57.061,0:17:59.585
whether they may be

0:18:00.775,0:18:03.914
in terms of the blatant increase[br]in homelessness rates

0:18:03.914,0:18:05.316
and profiles of people

0:18:05.316,0:18:10.380
who usually were not identified[br]as being homeless people,

0:18:10.380,0:18:13.680
but who faced this inequity[br]from one day to the next

0:18:13.680,0:18:15.482
due to the housing situation.

0:18:15.936,0:18:17.116
So for me,

0:18:17.550,0:18:20.293
I quickly spot situations of inequity

0:18:20.570,0:18:23.651
not only when they are talked about,[br]but also when they're not.

0:18:24.725,0:18:29.261
And I have always thought that art[br]is an extremely powerful weapon

0:18:29.685,0:18:32.587
and that if I was to use this weapon,

0:18:33.007,0:18:37.874
it should be strong enough to capsize[br]something that is as big as it.

0:18:38.360,0:18:40.380
That's my motto.

0:18:40.750,0:18:44.312
It doesn't mean that I won't be led[br]to create works

0:18:46.120,0:18:47.840
just for the fun of it,

0:18:47.840,0:18:49.090
but I really want to... ,

0:18:49.090,0:18:51.880
There needs to be a cause[br]to which I respond.

0:18:51.880,0:18:53.623
This is my art for me.

0:18:54.565,0:18:57.217
We would like to move on[br]to another topic

0:18:57.217,0:18:58.738
- if you don't mind,[br]- Of course!

0:18:58.738,0:19:02.673
because actually, Ballet Forward[br]focuses on anti-Black racism,

0:19:02.673,0:19:05.469
so our project goal is to open minds.

0:19:05.940,0:19:08.858
And I wanted to know if ballet,

0:19:08.858,0:19:11.724
since it was created in Europe[br]a long time ago

0:19:11.724,0:19:13.478
on conservative and traditional grounds,

0:19:13.880,0:19:18.169
is an art that can discriminate[br]and exclude many communities?

0:19:18.430,0:19:21.956
And if you are comfortable[br]talking about the topic,

0:19:21.956,0:19:25.031
is racism something[br]that you have already experienced

0:19:25.031,0:19:28.832
or maybe are still experiencing[br]in the ballet world,

0:19:28.832,0:19:30.936
as well as at an earlier stage?

0:19:31.985,0:19:34.565
I think the basis...

0:19:35.345,0:19:36.862
There are many layers in there.

0:19:38.380,0:19:40.235
It's important to remember that

0:19:40.235,0:19:46.128
the body is one of the most [br]magnificent instruments to rally

0:19:46.640,0:19:47.880
and at the same time,

0:19:47.880,0:19:51.855
it's one of the most drastic and terrible[br]instruments to discriminate us.

0:19:53.255,0:19:56.755
And dance being an environment,

0:19:56.755,0:20:00.556
where the body is the main tool,

0:20:00.915,0:20:04.268
unfortunately, whether in ballet[br]or in other forms,

0:20:04.995,0:20:09.312
the gaze and perception

0:20:10.242,0:20:12.610
become a measuring tool.

0:20:13.440,0:20:18.083
What is it that I perceive[br]of the capacity of a body

0:20:18.083,0:20:19.759
before it even moves?

0:20:20.125,0:20:24.094
Do I feel that it fits into the categories

0:20:24.295,0:20:28.774
that my practice... defends

0:20:28.774,0:20:31.013
or that my practice states?

0:20:31.812,0:20:33.012
I'll give you an example.

0:20:34.120,0:20:37.740
When I was 11 years old,[br]I had gone through several auditions

0:20:37.740,0:20:40.960
because I wanted to join[br]a dance-study programme.

0:20:42.274,0:20:47.755
Back then, there used to be,[br]in your current school,

0:20:48.525,0:20:52.504
I was told it had a different name[br]in older days, it was <i>École supérieure</i>...

0:20:52.504,0:20:55.410
- Danse?[br]- No, there was another name,

0:20:55.410,0:20:58.800
I can't remember the exact name,

0:20:59.407,0:21:05.057
but it seems to me that the title[br]included <i>École Supérieure de</i>...

0:21:05.347,0:21:09.387
there was a... anyway!

0:21:09.925,0:21:12.020
I had applied for this school

0:21:12.020,0:21:15.887
like most of the girls who were coming out[br]ot Pierre-Laporte school,

0:21:15.887,0:21:17.235
so that was mostly girls.

0:21:17.235,0:21:19.585
And I had also applied[br]to join the Pierre-Laporte School.

0:21:19.585,0:21:21.425
And when I received...

0:21:21.425,0:21:25.058
I very much wanted to join[br]the first school I had applied for.

0:21:25.420,0:21:27.286
When I received my rejection letter,

0:21:27.788,0:21:32.938
the letter did not merely state[br]that I had been rejected,

0:21:33.600,0:21:36.450
It analyzed my body[br]according to stereotypes

0:21:36.450,0:21:38.390
of what ballet should require.

0:21:38.615,0:21:41.665
I think I did keep my letter, actually.

0:21:43.195,0:21:45.056
It dissected my muscles,

0:21:45.895,0:21:51.050
saying that my leg muscles were too wide[br]compared to the desired aesthetics,

0:21:51.640,0:21:55.784
that my curves did not meet[br]the aesthetic standards.

0:21:55.784,0:21:59.180
It was absolutely horrible.

0:21:59.390,0:22:02.504
I am convinced that no one would ever send[br]this kind of letter nowadays,

0:22:02.504,0:22:04.590
because times have evolved

0:22:04.590,0:22:07.186
and there has been[br]a lot of education since then.

0:22:07.577,0:22:09.955
But when I opened this letter,

0:22:09.955,0:22:11.710
I had been waiting for the postman,

0:22:11.710,0:22:15.161
I saw the postman coming,[br]I opened the letter, I was very excited.

0:22:15.515,0:22:17.959
Then, it was like a lead coat,

0:22:18.309,0:22:23.374
it was carving out a different body

0:22:23.374,0:22:25.260
that I supposedly should have.

0:22:25.260,0:22:30.692
It's like telling young people[br]who want to become dancers,

0:22:32.265,0:22:35.335
"Here, take this magazine,[br]look at this body,

0:22:35.335,0:22:36.971
then make your body fit inside it.

0:22:37.693,0:22:40.793
And if you can't fit, you're out."

0:22:41.495,0:22:44.875
And being in an environment[br]where excellence,

0:22:44.875,0:22:47.082
but I would rather say, the stringency,

0:22:48.080,0:22:50.872
the relentlessness, which can be positive,

0:22:51.214,0:22:55.214
with which you want to achieve perfection,[br]to surpass yourself,

0:22:55.544,0:22:59.040
when you are very young[br]and have already been trained in this,

0:22:59.040,0:23:00.672
and you receive such a letter

0:23:00.672,0:23:03.380
telling you to go and sculpt[br]your body in a different way,

0:23:04.695,0:23:07.915
that you don't fit in the cultural codes[br]that we want in ballet,

0:23:08.705,0:23:11.087
and it's not even a matter of size[br]or what have you.

0:23:11.087,0:23:14.925
It's really telling you [br]that your body will never fit.

0:23:15.525,0:23:18.915
And I remember crumbling down[br]at that moment.

0:23:19.067,0:23:23.631
Luckily, Laporte held auditions[br]not long after,

0:23:23.981,0:23:25.463
and I was selected.

0:23:25.463,0:23:29.315
But I still remember sitting [br]during my summer training,

0:23:29.315,0:23:33.097
with the other people in my class,[br]and we were telling each other

0:23:33.097,0:23:36.122
about the letters we had received[br]from that school.

0:23:37.525,0:23:43.966
So, I do consider that these were[br]acts of selective discrimination

0:23:44.225,0:23:48.780
based on my cultural physiognomy

0:23:48.780,0:23:54.500
and not on my accomplishments[br]in terms of gestures or excellence,

0:23:55.070,0:23:57.985
or my training background[br]in classical ballet.

0:23:57.985,0:24:00.144
This was not a comparative measuring tool

0:24:00.895,0:24:04.528
related to one's learning experience.

0:24:05.005,0:24:07.922
It was based purely on aesthetics.

0:24:07.922,0:24:09.831
And that, for me,

0:24:10.565,0:24:12.721
was one of the biggest obstacles I saw.

0:24:12.953,0:24:14.694
Because I didn't see myself,

0:24:14.694,0:24:18.840
while I was very often[br]the only black person in my classes,

0:24:19.850,0:24:23.594
I had not seen these discriminations[br]until that very moment.

0:24:23.594,0:24:25.360
And subsequently in secondary school,

0:24:25.690,0:24:28.430
it was obvious in the attribution[br]of certain roles,

0:24:29.625,0:24:32.836
I didn't necessarily get the main roles,

0:24:32.836,0:24:37.405
because that possibility[br]was ruled out fairly fast.

0:24:39.685,0:24:42.239
What was also upsetting[br]unfortunately in ballet,

0:24:42.239,0:24:45.493
is that often, your body[br]within the corps de ballet,

0:24:45.770,0:24:49.168
they don't actually tell you why,[br]but sometimes it can be sneaky,

0:24:49.500,0:24:52.282
they pick you up and say,[br]"Rhodnie, go to the edge.

0:24:52.803,0:24:53.803
you see, go to the end."

0:24:53.990,0:24:54.990
And you tell yourself,

0:24:54.990,0:24:57.570
Okay,,first work, I go to the end,[br]second work, I go to the end,

0:24:57.570,0:24:59.125
third work, I go to the end.

0:24:59.125,0:25:01.271
For all works, I'm always at the end,

0:25:01.271,0:25:04.485
on all the pictures I look at,[br]I was always put at the very end.

0:25:05.885,0:25:08.707
What am I disturbing[br]in the corps de ballet?

0:25:10.045,0:25:13.470
Is it because I just unbalance the photo?

0:25:15.050,0:25:19.095
Or is it because the role I play[br]should always be on the right?

0:25:19.570,0:25:21.784
And this is something[br]that can be easily seen,

0:25:21.784,0:25:23.999
even in other official pictures.

0:25:25.250,0:25:29.156
So for me, it was like <i>the</i> thing

0:25:29.156,0:25:32.265
that forced me to question,[br]especially in ballet,

0:25:32.848,0:25:35.185
to question about opening.

0:25:35.185,0:25:38.245
I had conversations too,[br]on the opening in the body.

0:25:38.245,0:25:40.106
"Ah, you know, it's correct actually,

0:25:40.106,0:25:41.747
but can you just bring it to that level?"

0:25:41.747,0:25:45.070
Then I said to myself, but no,[br]I can work my extension,

0:25:45.070,0:25:46.850
it's not that I can't.

0:25:46.910,0:25:48.149
So these are

0:25:50.229,0:25:52.339
small seeds of information

0:25:52.739,0:25:56.675
which, while the piano plays,[br]when we hear "And one, and two",

0:25:57.065,0:25:58.845
then [we breathe to see], etc.,

0:25:58.855,0:26:02.120
that this information also finds its place

0:26:02.120,0:26:06.212
at the same time[br]as a posture adjustment.

0:26:06.832,0:26:09.820
And what happens is - it's sneaky -

0:26:10.100,0:26:13.505
but unfortunately, it ends up sculpting

0:26:13.597,0:26:16.670
your own perception of your body,

0:26:16.670,0:26:18.860
and you want to do a lot more

0:26:18.860,0:26:21.156
than the person standing[br]in front of you or behind you

0:26:21.345,0:26:23.935
at the training bar, for example.

0:26:25.185,0:26:27.941
So it's because of those little things

0:26:28.338,0:26:33.270
that, like other people in my class[br]who have gone through the same,

0:26:33.660,0:26:35.598
I always did more, more, more.

0:26:35.598,0:26:37.043
Even when the classes were over,

0:26:37.043,0:26:39.064
I would stay in class[br]to work more and more,

0:26:39.350,0:26:42.641
to be able to not only reach the mark

0:26:42.641,0:26:44.650
which was given to everyone in the class,

0:26:44.960,0:26:46.712
but to also reach my own marks,

0:26:47.335,0:26:49.965
and then do better[br]because I have to do better.

0:26:50.075,0:26:54.475
So the result is[br]that you never feel in your place.

0:26:55.095,0:26:56.775
And I will always remember,

0:26:56.775,0:27:00.626
I had a teacher one day,[br]Marie-Rose Chama, to whom I still speak

0:27:01.545,0:27:03.470
who came to see me one day[br]then who told me:

0:27:03.470,0:27:06.332
"Rhodnie, I have to tell you[br]what you will likely experience."

0:27:06.332,0:27:07.959
And this woman is of Lebanese origin,

0:27:08.524,0:27:12.286
then she took me aside and she said:[br]"You will experience barriers,

0:27:12.790,0:27:14.890
you will experience racism [br]in this environment.

0:27:15.302,0:27:16.802
There are different markets.

0:27:16.802,0:27:19.085
and you will soon audition[br]for some them,

0:27:19.335,0:27:21.378
so I just want you[br]to get ready right away."

0:27:21.918,0:27:24.928
And back then,[br]I could not understand this woman.

0:27:24.928,0:27:27.006
I was thinking, [br]Why is she telling me those things?

0:27:27.006,0:27:28.135
No, no, I'm fine.

0:27:28.135,0:27:32.920
But she was preparing me[br]for what ballet presented me,

0:27:33.450,0:27:36.110
and for what I wasn't told directly,

0:27:36.240,0:27:39.330
but she had the courage[br]to tell me very clearly.

0:27:40.320,0:27:44.070
And it was later that[br]I chose other artistic forms

0:27:44.605,0:27:47.272
because it was really what I wanted,

0:27:48.565,0:27:51.300
but it is certain that being told[br]things like:

0:27:51.300,0:27:54.845
"When you go up on your toes,[br]you don't have a perfect line

0:27:54.845,0:27:57.483
because we're aware[br]that your body is different."

0:27:57.975,0:28:00.177
These are small adjustments,

0:28:00.177,0:28:02.379
but because we know[br]that in ballet or dance,

0:28:02.932,0:28:05.145
there are constant adjustments,

0:28:05.145,0:28:10.466
that we always want to be[br]perfectly aligned with others,

0:28:10.466,0:28:13.819
to be one with the corps[br]or even as a soloist,

0:28:16.365,0:28:18.705
it means that we're being set aside.

0:28:19.085,0:28:23.287
So that's all, it's a long story,

0:28:23.287,0:28:25.635
but I can tell you many others like that.

0:28:28.270,0:28:31.760
After sharing all of this with us,

0:28:31.900,0:28:34.720
I have a question and so do my peers:

0:28:34.980,0:28:36.720
for people who are,

0:28:37.250,0:28:38.936
I don't know if it's the same situation,

0:28:38.936,0:28:43.586
but who share a feeling of rage or sadness

0:28:43.586,0:28:47.291
or feel that they are [br]never going to find their place,

0:28:47.291,0:28:48.861
do you have any suggestions,

0:28:50.005,0:28:55.701
whether it is some advice,

0:28:55.701,0:28:58.083
some advice like, I don't know,

0:28:58.083,0:29:02.340
it may be more personal,

0:29:03.700,0:29:07.084
or trying to understand[br]the world of dance.

0:29:07.410,0:29:10.006
Could you share some advice?

0:29:12.665,0:29:16.840
I think that anger has value[br]in those moments.

0:29:17.665,0:29:19.563
And often, we want to,

0:29:19.563,0:29:21.462
because we learn to be...

0:29:22.055,0:29:25.703
I think that what ballet taught me,[br]among other things,

0:29:25.703,0:29:28.060
as well as other things I learned[br]in other disciplines,

0:29:28.060,0:29:31.272
is to show restraint, politeness,

0:29:32.460,0:29:34.530
we don't talk too much,[br]we don't show too much,

0:29:34.530,0:29:36.061
"Don't show, don't show!"

0:29:40.805,0:29:42.760
Educating yourself is the best thing.

0:29:44.470,0:29:45.642
You have to educate yourself.

0:29:46.565,0:29:49.283
Educate yourself,[br]talk to people from different generations.

0:29:49.585,0:29:52.295
I have been speaking with mentors,[br]and I still do.

0:29:52.295,0:29:53.742
I still have mentors

0:29:54.190,0:29:56.050
and I will never stop having mentors.

0:29:56.950,0:29:59.958
And dare to knock on someone's door,

0:29:59.958,0:30:02.882
even if you don't know if this person[br]may have had the same experience,

0:30:02.882,0:30:06.024
but ask them, "Hey, you,[br]some 10 years ago,

0:30:06.024,0:30:07.690
20 years ago or 30 years ago,

0:30:07.690,0:30:10.195
could you possibly have gone[br]through this kind of experience?

0:30:10.195,0:30:11.555
And could you tell me about it?"

0:30:13.830,0:30:14.830
Share,

0:30:15.285,0:30:17.110
never doubt your instinct.

0:30:17.110,0:30:19.015
You know it when there is discrimination,

0:30:19.015,0:30:20.735
there aren't million different ways.

0:30:21.415,0:30:25.710
And many times, you're told,[br]"Oh, come on, you're exaggerating."

0:30:27.660,0:30:29.059
And what I learned,

0:30:29.540,0:30:35.059
is that when your instinct tells you[br]that it is discrimination,

0:30:35.980,0:30:38.286
you can be sure that it's true[br]95% of the time.

0:30:38.845,0:30:41.745
And maybe there was a 5%[br]where I said to myself,

0:30:42.613,0:30:46.716
Okay, I admit that I was maybe[br]a little hasty in the matter.

0:30:47.565,0:30:52.753
But the foundation of discrimination,[br]particularly when it's underhand,

0:30:53.380,0:30:56.950
meaning they don't tell you to your face,

0:30:56.950,0:30:58.813
they don't tell you directly,

0:30:58.813,0:31:02.295
but you realize it through actions.

0:31:02.847,0:31:05.879
It could be,[br]suppose you're sitting at a table

0:31:05.879,0:31:08.361
or sitting somewhere,[br]and all of a sudden the place is full

0:31:08.361,0:31:10.935
so there's no more room for you[br]and you don't know where to sit.

0:31:11.835,0:31:14.235
It may be in the attribution[br]of certain roles.

0:31:14.545,0:31:19.582
What I learned[br]is to confront intelligently,

0:31:20.501,0:31:24.109
which is not always easy,[br]and it's still not easy to do.

0:31:24.420,0:31:26.900
But the conversation,

0:31:29.730,0:31:31.040
once you have asserted yourself,

0:31:31.540,0:31:34.399
is often a formidable tool.

0:31:35.395,0:31:39.635
And to dare to question[br]without seeking an answer,

0:31:39.855,0:31:42.450
dare to question[br]the opponent, I would say,

0:31:42.450,0:31:46.345
or dare to question the person[br]or the contexts.

0:31:46.805,0:31:49.852
And when it is a collective situation,

0:31:50.005,0:31:55.585
because unfortunately,[br]this happens too,

0:31:56.665,0:31:59.630
you have to call a pause,

0:31:59.630,0:32:01.403
and say: “We need to talk.

0:32:02.210,0:32:04.530
You need to really listen

0:32:04.530,0:32:07.350
and I know you won't be happy [br]with what I'm going to say,

0:32:08.150,0:32:10.425
but we'll have to examine the situation.

0:32:10.425,0:32:12.345
You probably won't like[br]the mirror I'll show you,

0:32:12.345,0:32:16.000
you might not be happy with my mirror[br]nor even agree with it,

0:32:16.345,0:32:18.505
but I don't expect an answer[br]from you today.

0:32:18.505,0:32:21.700
I just ask you to understand

0:32:21.700,0:32:23.820
that there's a mirror[br]waiting for you to look into.

0:32:23.820,0:32:26.720
Pluck up your courage,[br]and hold your mirror to them.

0:32:27.240,0:32:29.410
Then sometimes, it works for some people.

0:32:29.410,0:32:33.431
There really were wonderful stories

0:32:33.727,0:32:37.890
of reconciliation, of encounters,

0:32:38.735,0:32:43.014
of respect, of apologies,[br]and I do believe in that.

0:32:44.915,0:32:47.266
The human being,[br]just like other species,

0:32:47.266,0:32:52.830
is compelled to adapt and to evolve.

0:32:53.500,0:32:55.672
We are not different from other species.

0:32:55.863,0:32:58.239
However, there are people[br]who are tough.

0:32:58.239,0:33:04.047
But as long as things[br]are done with respect,

0:33:04.065,0:33:06.120
and sometimes it's good to let time pass.

0:33:06.120,0:33:08.735
I for one, let go of certain things

0:33:08.995,0:33:13.373
and I remained without saying a word[br]for several years,

0:33:13.373,0:33:15.015
not because I didn't want to say a word,

0:33:15.015,0:33:17.197
it's not because I don't say[br]a word in front of people

0:33:17.197,0:33:18.978
that I don't do anything[br]in the background.

0:33:19.470,0:33:22.453
And I think that <i>BOW'T TRAIL</i>[br]is a perfect example of that.

0:33:24.520,0:33:27.942
When the 75 video[br]web documentary came out

0:33:27.942,0:33:30.903
and I'm told that there are still[br]more videos which were not published yet,

0:33:30.903,0:33:32.530
I didn't find the time to release them,

0:33:33.115,0:33:35.255
when Radio-Canada announced,

0:33:36.091,0:33:38.240
three days after I had given birth[br]to my little one,

0:33:38.240,0:33:42.385
that they would take a web documentary,[br]the web series and a medium-length film,

0:33:42.905,0:33:46.646
I was holding my child,[br]and I said to my team:

0:33:46.646,0:33:49.670
"Will you let me have a week off,[br]I just gave birth."

0:33:50.200,0:33:54.139
I really was not expecting[br]to see three of my projects

0:33:54.139,0:33:56.160
being released on Radio Cannes[br]at the same time.

0:33:56.702,0:34:01.965
I was really scared[br]of not being able to produce

0:34:01.965,0:34:03.684
everything I had harvested over the years,

0:34:03.684,0:34:06.021
because not a single broadcast[br]company would accept them.

0:34:06.265,0:34:07.596
We were told no,

0:34:08.025,0:34:10.364
that it wouldn't interest people,[br]then that was it.

0:34:11.659,0:34:12.659
So,

0:34:13.275,0:34:15.902
I deeply believe in conversation,

0:34:17.250,0:34:19.050
but in its own time.

0:34:21.060,0:34:23.225
When I say in its own time,

0:34:24.375,0:34:26.418
it means that not everyone[br]is ready to converse.

0:34:26.570,0:34:28.521
You should not force yourself to converse.

0:34:28.975,0:34:31.344
Then even when there is[br]a situation of discrimination,

0:34:31.344,0:34:33.295
if you want to sit down and talk,

0:34:34.045,0:34:36.015
if you're not ready, you're not ready.

0:34:36.705,0:34:38.235
You have the right to not be ready.

0:34:38.885,0:34:44.035
Discriminations are scars on the soul.

0:34:44.890,0:34:47.106
They often last for a lifetime.

0:34:47.690,0:34:49.263
And at this depth,

0:34:50.490,0:34:54.110
if it is even slightly grasped by people,

0:34:55.050,0:34:59.875
this will allow them to understand[br]why there is no conversation,

0:35:00.785,0:35:03.795
why it can take five years, [br]six years, seven years,

0:35:04.575,0:35:07.165
why there will be a distance

0:35:08.075,0:35:10.825
and why, when the time comes [br]that we can talk to each other,

0:35:10.825,0:35:12.025
it will be the right time.

0:35:13.290,0:35:18.745
So meet, give yourself time, [br]educate yourself,

0:35:19.050,0:35:23.545
read, watch documentaries,[br]talk with people.

0:35:28.315,0:35:32.182
I think this is going to be[br]our last questions,

0:35:33.275,0:35:35.755
I'd like to talk again[br]about your creations,

0:35:36.060,0:35:38.997
we thought about this before, [br]we mentioned it,

0:35:39.303,0:35:42.960
how do you precisely approach racism

0:35:42.960,0:35:45.047
and other such stakes in your creations?

0:35:45.047,0:35:47.405
I know you explained to us

0:35:47.405,0:35:51.489
how you handled [br]the documentary choreography,

0:35:51.489,0:35:55.776
but when we're talking about racism,[br]have you created one

0:35:55.776,0:36:00.437
and if so, what was your foundation?

0:36:00.437,0:36:03.397
Was it about your past or witnesses?

0:36:06.605,0:36:08.890
What is interesting[br]in documentary choreography,

0:36:08.890,0:36:10.630
is it's never about me.

0:36:10.630,0:36:12.980
I can start from an experience,

0:36:12.980,0:36:16.829
I think that like any person,[br]we are biased on a subject

0:36:17.972,0:36:19.392
because we have experienced it.

0:36:20.285,0:36:23.885
The beauty of it [br]is the <i>BOW'T TRAIL</i> journey

0:36:23.885,0:36:27.697
because not all my works speak[br]of racism and discrimination.

0:36:28.445,0:36:30.171
Even <i>BOW'T TRAIL</i> is a journey,

0:36:30.925,0:36:35.420
yes, that talks about the slave trade,[br]about discrimination,

0:36:35.800,0:36:37.260
but it's moving forward.

0:36:37.640,0:36:40.582
And the 15 musicians with whom[br]I have worked all over the world,

0:36:40.760,0:36:43.840
it highlights the strength of resilience,

0:36:43.840,0:36:46.360
the force of cultural re-creation.

0:36:46.360,0:36:49.020
It's still quite fascinating that today,

0:36:49.855,0:36:51.924
today, we are not capable,

0:36:53.745,0:36:57.584
we are not even capable in fact[br]to name all the rhythms

0:36:57.584,0:37:00.669
and all the musical movements of the world

0:37:01.029,0:37:04.680
which exist based on African, [br]Afrodescendant rhythms,

0:37:04.680,0:37:06.050
because as we speak,

0:37:06.050,0:37:08.208
there are plenty more being created,

0:37:08.208,0:37:09.410
that we don't even know about.

0:37:09.410,0:37:11.485
I take an example, when I was in Brazil,

0:37:12.280,0:37:14.200
there is what is called the <i>Passinho</i>.

0:37:14.200,0:37:18.455
The young people from the <i>favelas</i>[br]came to tell me about this.

0:37:18.755,0:37:20.889
I was in a museum called

0:37:21.679,0:37:25.475
<i>El Museo de los Pretos Novos</i>,[br]in Rio de Janeiro.

0:37:25.475,0:37:28.115
They were sitting with researchers,[br]then we talked,

0:37:28.115,0:37:30.700
I talked about my research.

0:37:31.000,0:37:34.520
There was a silent lady[br]who told me, "I am a lawyer,

0:37:34.520,0:37:38.380
I am also a dancer, Carolina Peres,

0:37:38.840,0:37:41.918
I was the only black lawyer[br]in my university,

0:37:41.918,0:37:43.521
then I launched a movement

0:37:44.245,0:37:49.988
which allows young people to mobilize[br]rather than using weapons."

0:37:50.925,0:37:54.045
Then at the time, it was every...

0:37:55.555,0:37:58.410
I think it was every 30 minutes...

0:37:58.410,0:38:00.494
Oh my God, I should review the statistics.

0:38:00.494,0:38:04.090
Every 23 minutes,[br]there is a young black man

0:38:04.090,0:38:07.156
who dies because[br]of systemic racism in Brazil,

0:38:07.156,0:38:08.400
that was in 2016.

0:38:09.700,0:38:13.068
So this situation,

0:38:13.068,0:38:14.729
she told me, "I have young sons,

0:38:14.729,0:38:17.095
and one of them[br]might just go any moment

0:38:17.095,0:38:20.374
because the police made[br]a different decision about his life."

0:38:21.825,0:38:23.055
Then when I arrived in Brazil,

0:38:23.055,0:38:28.070
there was a demonstration[br]with Afrodescendant and Native mothers

0:38:28.070,0:38:29.670
marching side by side

0:38:30.050,0:38:32.200
to fight against racial discrimination.

0:38:34.210,0:38:36.850
When we talk about racism in our works,

0:38:36.850,0:38:39.336
for me, it's more about giving a voice

0:38:39.336,0:38:41.822
to those women[br]who were marching in the street,

0:38:42.205,0:38:45.355
to give a voice to these young people[br]who told me about <i>Passinho</i>,

0:38:45.355,0:38:47.972
who tell me that they dance[br]barefoot in the <i>favela</i>

0:38:47.972,0:38:49.508
to say that they still exist.

0:38:49.545,0:38:51.615
Then how I gave them[br]a voice in the artwork,

0:38:51.615,0:38:56.160
I was in tears[br]when they told me their stories

0:38:56.380,0:38:59.724
that despite me being solo,[br]I told them, I can't dance a solo,

0:38:59.900,0:39:02.511
that would be me not listening to you.

0:39:02.710,0:39:05.595
Which means that halfway through my work[br]when I go to open my message,

0:39:05.595,0:39:07.075
because I always have a message,

0:39:07.655,0:39:09.770
I need you to leave the audience,

0:39:09.770,0:39:13.175
then you come on stage[br]and do what you want,

0:39:13.175,0:39:16.646
it's not about excellence, perfection,

0:39:16.646,0:39:19.305
it's about the excellence of saying[br]to the people that you exist,

0:39:19.305,0:39:21.595
and that you may not be there[br]for much longer.

0:39:22.060,0:39:24.354
I would like you to come[br]speak out in my work,

0:39:24.354,0:39:26.729
and do what you want with it,[br]it belongs to you.

0:39:27.314,0:39:30.534
And this is how I speak.

0:39:30.600,0:39:35.117
This is how I give voice[br]because I build bridges with realities.

0:39:35.675,0:39:38.101
Then we talked [br]to these young people again,

0:39:38.101,0:39:40.575
they had tears in their eyes,[br]they said to me : "Rhodnie,

0:39:40.575,0:39:43.595
you understood our reality,[br]you understood what we are going through."

0:39:43.595,0:39:47.335
As for me, I am happy because[br]I was able to show people that I exist,

0:39:47.345,0:39:51.576
but we are not applauding a work[br]because it's beautiful or not.

0:39:52.000,0:39:54.980
These are matters of life and death.

0:39:55.830,0:39:59.089
And in the end, it's also[br]what <i>BOW'T TRAIL</i> is about.

0:39:59.089,0:40:01.300
<i>BOW'T TRAIL</i> tells exactly that.

0:40:01.995,0:40:04.051
The manner how I trace these images,

0:40:04.051,0:40:07.515
is through gravity [br]that resides in my body.

0:40:07.515,0:40:09.725
So when I dance <i>BOW'T TRAIL Retrospek</i>,

0:40:10.427,0:40:14.017
I would even challenge you to learn[br]an excerpt from <i>BOW'T TRAIL Rétrospek</i>.

0:40:14.310,0:40:19.418
You need to feel[br]the 140 testimonies in your body

0:40:19.418,0:40:20.750
all speaking at the same time,

0:40:20.960,0:40:21.960
then one gesture,

0:40:22.170,0:40:24.170
it's 140 voices at the same time.

0:40:24.970,0:40:27.495
That's the weight[br]of <i>BOW'T TRAIL Rétrospek</i>

0:40:27.495,0:40:29.260
That's why I love it so much.

0:40:29.540,0:40:30.540
So,

0:40:33.160,0:40:34.845
addressing inequity issues

0:40:35.555,0:40:37.716
means agreeing to put your body

0:40:39.451,0:40:41.691
in a burning oven.

0:40:42.350,0:40:44.060
Like that, yes.

0:40:45.345,0:40:46.830
We are far from aesthetics.

0:40:46.830,0:40:48.500
We don't take away the aesthetics.

0:40:48.755,0:40:50.590
But you know,

0:40:53.460,0:40:57.684
dancing goes beyond just saying,[br]I want to achieve that.

0:40:58.215,0:41:02.474
That you carry inside you[br]such a strong message

0:41:03.255,0:41:06.055
that it is absolutely necessary[br]that you pass it on to someone else.

0:41:06.055,0:41:08.229
That's what interests me in my works.

0:41:08.743,0:41:09.883
That's it, I'll stop there.

0:41:11.510,0:41:13.820
- That's super inspiring, thank you.[br]- Rhodnie, thank you.

0:41:13.820,0:41:15.460
Thank you so much.

0:41:17.085,0:41:20.375
One last question[br]to conclude the discussion,

0:41:20.375,0:41:22.679
what are you currently working on?

0:41:24.282,0:41:26.402
Any plans, things like that?

0:41:26.885,0:41:29.945
Yes, so right now,[br]this is really my beautiful baby.

0:41:29.945,0:41:32.025
So right now, Im finally updating

0:41:32.025,0:41:34.205
something I've been wanting[br]to develop for 10 years

0:41:34.205,0:41:36.942
which is a documentary [br]choreographic laboratory

0:41:36.942,0:41:38.760
which means that RD Créations

0:41:38.760,0:41:42.787
having developed expertise today[br]in documentary choreography,

0:41:42.787,0:41:45.427
we are now launching two laboratories[br]at the same time,

0:41:45.427,0:41:48.900
it means that we are developing[br]our works in prototype form,

0:41:48.900,0:41:51.722
a bit like engineers[br]who do research and development.

0:41:52.055,0:41:53.835
We do prototyping of works

0:41:53.850,0:41:56.093
to see the full potential around the work

0:41:56.093,0:41:59.663
both at the partner, costumes, [br]dance and lighting level.

0:41:59.895,0:42:02.484
So, we just entered[br]two creation prototypes

0:42:02.484,0:42:03.484
for our two subjects.

0:42:03.775,0:42:05.355
The first one is called SCÒ.

0:42:06.535,0:42:10.736
SCÒ addresses the issue of scoliosis.

0:42:11.320,0:42:12.415
I have scoliosis.

0:42:12.415,0:42:14.643
So, while we are talking about[br]resistance and inequity,

0:42:14.643,0:42:17.248
I had scoliosis and I almost had surgery.

0:42:18.360,0:42:21.040
But I kept dancing and I still do.

0:42:22.175,0:42:24.365
So, SCÒ addresses the issue

0:42:24.365,0:42:27.535
of all these psychological[br]and physiological twists

0:42:27.535,0:42:32.519
that young teenage girls[br]have to carry until adulthood.

0:42:33.450,0:42:34.930
And I say young girl because

0:42:34.930,0:42:38.230
it's mainly 90% if not more[br]of young girls who suffer from it.

0:42:38.770,0:42:42.870
And it's going to become[br]a digital installation

0:42:42.870,0:42:46.215
with performance[br]and musical performance.

0:42:47.875,0:42:50.755
Then in fact, another work[br]is also coming soon,

0:42:50.755,0:42:54.455
I'm starting right now[br]my research regarding KÒSA.

0:42:54.915,0:42:58.127
KÒSA in Creole means this body

0:42:58.518,0:43:02.458
and we address the issue of death[br]told from the children

0:43:02.900,0:43:08.170
and from specialists in astrophysics,[br]in theology and dermatology.

0:43:09.511,0:43:10.511
Wow!

0:43:15.317,0:43:19.318
Just to compare, but do you have[br]places where you present them

0:43:19.318,0:43:23.077
or it will be on the internet,[br]do you still know...?

0:43:24.580,0:43:30.030
In fact, the beauty of [br]a documentary choreographic laboratory,

0:43:30.660,0:43:33.700
is we give ourselves the freedom [br]not to know how it will turn out,

0:43:33.700,0:43:34.919
and that's the fun of it.

0:43:34.919,0:43:39.800
For example, SCÒ, I was convinced[br]it was going be a group work

0:43:40.315,0:43:44.074
with maybe four, five performers,

0:43:44.355,0:43:46.705
then we were going to have[br]scenographic objects on stage,

0:43:46.705,0:43:48.779
then the musicians we work with,

0:43:49.425,0:43:50.855
the Aukan group in Toronto,

0:43:50.855,0:43:53.438
we say OK,[br]it's going to be a work on stage.

0:43:54.090,0:43:59.210
And after 36 hours of creation[br]in the laboratory with a scenographer,

0:43:59.210,0:44:02.010
videographer, lighting coordinator,

0:44:02.010,0:44:06.080
the testimonies I collected[br]from Saint-Justine, chiropractors,

0:44:06.750,0:44:07.860
a lot of people.

0:44:09.025,0:44:11.301
And with the University of Montreal[br]as a partner too.

0:44:12.615,0:44:17.985
In the end, I realized it wasn't[br]a dance show on a regular stage,

0:44:18.515,0:44:21.985
that the message had to be channelled

0:44:21.985,0:44:27.867
in an audio, digital, projection[br]and performance installation,

0:44:28.320,0:44:29.569
from time to time,

0:44:29.989,0:44:32.752
which means that our new market[br]becomes museums.

0:44:33.352,0:44:36.230
So, RD Créations[br]has already set up an exhibition,

0:44:37.110,0:44:38.825
the Conversation exhibition,

0:44:38.825,0:44:41.395
but we are going to do[br]our second iteration

0:44:41.395,0:44:43.484
in digital installation,

0:44:43.854,0:44:45.225
then it will be the SCÒ project.

0:44:45.225,0:44:47.577
In fact, we are right on the dot[br]right now,

0:44:47.577,0:44:48.807
which means that the dance,

0:44:49.225,0:44:51.728
then the documentary choreography[br]takes us to something else.

0:44:52.420,0:44:54.180
And in holding this freedom,

0:44:54.180,0:44:57.720
if we had sealed it right away[br]with a dance diffuser,

0:44:57.940,0:45:02.230
we would be in a bad position to say[br]that in the end, it wasn't a dance show.

0:45:02.420,0:45:04.894
The dance show is coming [br]into the performance

0:45:04.894,0:45:07.325
of the digital installation[br]which should be in a museum.

0:45:07.555,0:45:10.752
Whereas now, we are really capable[br]of having an even clearer vision,

0:45:10.752,0:45:12.715
a more measured proposal,

0:45:12.715,0:45:14.745
then an ability to rally partners

0:45:14.745,0:45:17.390
which will be all the more oriented[br]towards what we want to do.

0:45:17.775,0:45:21.450
Then for KÒSA,[br]I imagine it is my next symphony

0:45:21.450,0:45:26.003
as it is still a work[br]which is likely to be quite big

0:45:26.003,0:45:28.362
because of the three major subjects[br]that we are approaching.

0:45:28.840,0:45:31.202
And it's a piece scheduled for 2028, 2029.

0:45:31.855,0:45:34.309
So, we work on three years,

0:45:34.525,0:45:38.115
our company, our creations rarely drop,

0:45:38.255,0:45:41.955
the earliest is two and a half years,[br]two years and some of work,

0:45:42.355,0:45:45.075
but the documentary choreography[br]requires three years of work.

0:45:45.500,0:45:48.598
You really, really need[br]good documentation,

0:45:48.598,0:45:50.219
relevant archiving,

0:45:50.540,0:45:52.090
rallied partners,

0:45:52.330,0:45:55.840
a choreography where the signature,[br]is all the more refined.

0:45:56.060,0:46:00.060
Then let's not forget polyrhythm[br]for RD Créations and language,

0:46:00.060,0:46:02.502
documentary choreography[br]which is really important.

0:46:02.788,0:46:07.257
If we want body language[br]to be really strong,

0:46:07.495,0:46:11.489
musical language must also be written

0:46:11.489,0:46:14.190
at the same time than body language.

0:46:14.510,0:46:17.170
So this is another body[br]that we could talk about.

0:46:17.170,0:46:20.736
What is the link[br]body/music, body/instrument.

0:46:22.030,0:46:23.069
Yes,

0:46:23.070,0:46:27.107
the role of the musician as an accompanist

0:46:27.915,0:46:29.266
outside the classic

0:46:29.266,0:46:32.150
because there's a whole universe[br]in polyrhythm.

0:46:33.915,0:46:36.670
Super inspiring, really inspiring.

0:46:36.670,0:46:40.813
Thank you very much for your time

0:46:41.500,0:46:44.260
allowing us to discuss and chat like that,[br]it's really interesting.

0:46:44.510,0:46:47.140
I'm happy to hear that,[br]but I have a question for you.

0:46:47.369,0:46:48.369
Yes.

0:46:48.369,0:46:53.370
I would like to know today,[br]if you look at the dance world,

0:46:53.370,0:46:56.855
you have your dreams, but what are they?

0:47:02.264,0:47:05.722
I think that touching people

0:47:05.836,0:47:08.666
because I dream of being on stage,

0:47:08.666,0:47:12.139
but more than impacting myself,

0:47:12.139,0:47:14.410
I want to have an impact[br]on those around me.

0:47:14.410,0:47:18.402
So I think that all that[br]you explained to us today,

0:47:18.402,0:47:21.290
what you shared with us is inspiring

0:47:21.290,0:47:25.060
because it confirms that it is possible

0:47:26.010,0:47:29.460
to touch hundreds and thousands of people

0:47:30.535,0:47:32.715
and yes, that's it.

0:47:32.775,0:47:34.586
For me, it's a bit the same thing,

0:47:34.586,0:47:38.924
I think it's about living[br]especially through dance

0:47:38.924,0:47:43.284
and see how it can affect everyone,

0:47:43.284,0:47:47.398
then I would say people[br]are more open nowadays,

0:47:47.398,0:47:51.470
and the fact that we are open[br]to all communities,

0:47:51.470,0:47:54.530
and that everyone will have[br]the opportunity to dance,

0:47:54.750,0:47:56.252
so that's my dream.

0:47:57.265,0:47:59.555
It's that there are no more barriers.

0:48:00.235,0:48:02.825
I wish that for you collectively, yes.

0:48:03.110,0:48:04.120
Thank you!

0:48:04.415,0:48:07.705
Yes, to make the biggest dreams come true,

0:48:08.800,0:48:11.120
the wildest dreams[br]that you already have in mind

0:48:11.570,0:48:13.860
and especially those[br]that you don't know yet.

0:48:16.210,0:48:18.180
Yes, thank you.

0:48:19.552,0:48:25.181
Follow those young Canadians and join them[br]in their efforts to change the world