WEBVTT
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L'évolution du ballet
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in collaboration with
l'École supérieure de ballet du Québec
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presents One career, One story
An interview with Rhodnie Désir
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"L'évolution du ballet",
an initiative led by young people,
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not only invites Canada's youth
to rally around equity, reconciliation
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and racism against Black persons
within the ballet world,
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but also gives them the means
to achieve this goal.
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The talk is presented
by two leaders of the project
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- Hello, my name is Victoria,
- And I'm Héloïse
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and welcome to One Career, One Story
A discussion with Rhodnie Désir.
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This is a learning session
for the Ballet Forward project,
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which is a project that brings together
about 30 students
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from Canada's five major
professional ballet schools.
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It is a project that allows us
to address issues of fairness,
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reconciliation and racism
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directed towards Blacks
in the ballet world,
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but more importantly,
to find ways to combat these issues.
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Our goal is to make the ballet world
as well as the artistic world
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more inclusive and accessible
to the entire Canadian population.
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So today, we have the chance
and the great honour
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to welcome Rhodnie Désir.
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Mrs. Désir is a documentary choreographer,
dancer and chief creative officer
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with RD Créations, her own company.
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She has produced around 30 creations
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and recently collaborated
with Danse Danse.
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Some of her projects earned her
two Montreal dance awards :
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the Envol Award and the Dance Grand Prix.
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Rhodnie's choreographic signature
is linked to her roots in Haiti,
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as well as other parts of the Caribbean,
Africa, Central Africa,
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and sub-Saharan Africa.
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We can refer to her style
as "Afro-contemporary".
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Rhodnie is an amazing and inspiring woman
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and most importantly,
she's truly involved in the community,
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which earned her
international recognition.
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Thank you very much, Rhodnie,
for being with us today.
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I will hand over to you,
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so you can talk to us
about your career and everything.
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Thank you, thank you very much
for this introduction.
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It's a real joy to be with you,
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because it takes me back
to the time when I was your age
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and was dreaming of making
a career in this field.
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How would I summarize my career?
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I think it's important
to mention that I grew up...,
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I have been dancing
since I was three years old
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and my initial training
was classical ballet.
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And later on, I wanted
to join the artistic world,
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but of course, as I was coming
from a Haitian family,
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the understanding
and explanation were like,
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"We want to make sure that you can
get by in life and in the arts,
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and maybe that's not the right path."
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That was the mindset back then.
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So, I went looking for another training,
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while I was still pursuing
my dance classes.
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Which means that I was pursuing
two diplomas at the same time,
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one in communication and marketing,
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and another one in dance,
which was classical dance back then.
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However, at the same time,
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I directed my practice a little more
towards Afro-contemporary dances,
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as you have explained correctly.
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I would summarize my career
as a succession of milestones
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where I would constantly
evaluate how far I've gone,
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and how I can be useful,
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how my dancing can be useful,
and how art can be useful.
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And I like to say that
what I'm doing today,
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is what is called
“documentary choreography”
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and we can delve more into the subject.
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It is a methodology
that I wanted to develop
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to achieve my own ambition.
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But maybe in five years,
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dancing will help me
to think about architecture.
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Then maybe in ten years,
it will help me to consider
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developing a new cultural hub.
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I see dance as an element of my career,
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as a tool to open new doors.
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And that's how I would summarize
the vision of my career.
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You mentioned that you are
a documentary choreographer.
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I'm not sure what it means,
can you please further explain?
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You also said that you are
a Chief Creative Officer,
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when we last spoke,
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so these are the two things
I would like to know.
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Actually, one thing I can say
is that what I'm currently doing
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is exactly what I was doing
when I was seven years old.
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When I was young,
I used to live in Laval,
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in a community nearby, for people
who live outside of Montreal,
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it's not very far
from the city of Montreal.
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And I was simply curious
about my neighbours, about humans,
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and I wanted to understand
how humans work.
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So, some might say
that it is a journalistic approach,
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others, that it is
an anthropological approach.
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But in all of this, I just wanted
to understand how humans work.
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Then I realized that dancing
and asking questions,
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when you create, when you want to create,
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may sometimes lead you
to make some assumptions.
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What is documentary choreography?
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I could summarize it by saying
that it's done in four main stages.
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Often, an idea will arise in me
when I see a social challenge.
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For instance,
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if I consider the current situation
around deportations
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happening in the United States,
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it's a disaster, it's chaos,
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and it raises a lot of questions
regarding injustice and unfairness
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throughout the world.
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In relation to that,
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I can choose to either get angry
in front of my screen or to wonder,
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How about interviewing people
with different mindsets,
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so I can better understand
what's going on,
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and then maybe I could make use of my art
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to offer a vision,
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a hypothesis in relation
to what's going on.
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So, I start by holding interviews.
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I have my question: What is bothering me?
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What's making my stomach ache?
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What makes me want to scream, to shout,
what is it that seems so unfair to me?
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After that, I ask myself:
Who could I meet?
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And then, I will go and meet
some experts in a specific field.
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On this topic, they may be sociologists,
politicians, social workers,
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migrant-hosting organizations
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or people with connections
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with the communities
who are being deported.
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They could be family members,
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or the very people who are being deported,
who are being transferred,
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they could be policemen, policewomen.
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From there on, my backpack
is full of information.
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And there are lots of tools in it.
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Then, as I reshuffle
those tools in my bag,
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I can hand some of them over
to some musicians who might say,
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"I can hear a rhythm there."
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And this rhythm might inspire me
to make some types of gestures,
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gestures that are more circular
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or that have more weight,
more physicality, more poise,
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movements that are sharper,
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because someone's telling me,
"It's going so fast, I am confused."
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So, the image arising in me
from these words,
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is one of sharpness, of physicality,
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weight, aerobatics,
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flowing down to the ground.
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So, I start from my idea,
from the question,
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I bring this to the witnesses,
to the specialists,
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the specialists are the human element.
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Their testimonies take me away
towards other creators and designers.
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I bring this to the interpreters,
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and all along this line of process,
I also compose songs.
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I compose songs in an invented language.
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I like to say that it's a language
that I don't speak,
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but that I speak secretly.
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And after that,
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I arrive at the work phase.
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This work is a hypothesis
that I offer to the citizens
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who become my audience.
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So, documentary choreography allows us
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to preserve the peoples' memories,
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it allows us to excavate social issues
based on orality.
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It eventually takes me back to one
of my great loves which is orality.
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Through the ages,
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oral tradition, which means
speaking to each other,
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telling stories to each other,
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"I tell you something, keep it secret...",
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has transcended all ages.
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I think it will beat AI
for a very long time.
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So, I rely on this basis,
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then after that, I can develop my work
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and that's what I have been doing
through most of my works.
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So, that led me
to connect with specialists :
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experts in social sciences,
anthropology, history,
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ethnomusicology, ethnology
and what have you,
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to connect with environment specialists
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in relation to climate change
as requested.
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It got me to connect with specialists
like, at the present time,
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experts in theology, thanatology,
and astrophysics.
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Now, how will the body deploy this
through documentary choreography?
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It's about listening,
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then trying to put your body
and knowledge at the service of the cause.
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That's all I can say.
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So that's it, it was a lot of talk,
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but basically, this is what
documentary choreography is about,
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I hope it was clear.
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I've watched videos of a choregraphy
that you have created about the heart.
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That's right.
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I found it really beautiful,
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but I think that,
it's documentary choreography,
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you really represented
not the heart just like that,
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but the actual human heart in motion.
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I saw some videos
and I found it really beautiful.
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What is really interesting,
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actually, what I find fascinating
with documentary choreographies,
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is that truly,
I could do this all my life.
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It's the one thing, I can tell myself,
when I'm 90 years old,
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I can still reflect on
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how we could explain to people
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the challenges experienced by young people
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who cannot find their bearings,
for example.
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Or by a five year old child
who suffers from malnutrition
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but who still has to go to school.
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How can we tell
the story of his resilience?
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What's interesting
about the story of the heart,
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about Symphonie de cœurs,
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is that I always thought
that I'd never create a work about love,
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because I don't think
that I have a lot to say,
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and the theme in itself
does not impress me that much.
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It's not that I don't care
about actual love,
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but because I couldn't find any core
that I wanted to address.
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And when I became interested
in cardiovascular diseases
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and stories of resilience
that people live through,
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and how, within the body,
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the heart and the entire
cardiovascular system,
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which is in direct connection
with the dancing process, works,
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and going into operating rooms,
seeing open hearts,
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and the whole system as it moves,
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and seeing how the surgical teams
in the operating rooms work,
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which are actual choreographies
being performed before your eyes...
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As I left these spaces,
I had plenty of materials,
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which I could use,
together with the conductor,
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to provide guidance to the orchestra.
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I would say things like,
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"Now they should play
with more affirmation,
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because when instruments fall
in the operating room,
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I need us to create real chaos
in order to set the scene."
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I was able to recount
each step of the cardiac transplant,
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what actually is emptiness like,
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and I was able to tell the musicians,
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"You've been excelling at playing
the same thing for maybe 40 years,
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but now, I need you to act
as if you didn't know how to play anymore,
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because that is
what a cardiac transplant is about.
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A new heart is implanted in your body,
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your body is on the blink,
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and no matter how top-notch
your technique may be,
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you must instantly drop it all
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and start again from scratch.
00:11:49.805 --> 00:11:51.779
So that was a challenge
also for the musicians.
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In other words,
documentary choreography,
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to make a long story short,
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is really a tool that allows us
to better challenge dance,
00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:06.140
to better challenge the power of art,
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and to better challenge
00:12:08.373 --> 00:12:11.130
where the human being stands
today in society.
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It's really fascinating.
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It's clear that you are very present
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and involved in all social problems.
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Is there a personal reason or story
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why you became truly interested
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in the problems we face
in our society today?
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Was there something personal
that really gave birth
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to this urge to research and create?
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Yes, actually,
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I can mention that in 2014...
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I started choreographic methodology
in 2015.
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That's when I officially started
the documentary choreography methodology.
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In 2013, I created a piece called BOW'T
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which talks about migration
and deportation,
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and I wanted to establish a bridge
between these two themes.
00:13:10.160 --> 00:13:13.521
And when the time came
to tour this BOW'T piece,
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here in Montreal, in Quebec,
00:13:17.435 --> 00:13:20.880
my agent and I came up
against systemic barriers.
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How were they expressed?
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Mainly, we were told things like,
"Rhodnie's dance is very traditional",
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whereas I have never performed
traditional dances in my created works.
00:13:32.660 --> 00:13:34.020
I did take classes,
00:13:34.020 --> 00:13:36.160
but it has nothing to do
with what I present.
00:13:36.160 --> 00:13:39.340
So I realized that there was really
a big misunderstanding issue
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and many hurdles were raised
00:13:40.858 --> 00:13:44.024
beyond a mere analysis
of the excellence of my work,
00:13:44.024 --> 00:13:45.616
of whether it is excellent or not,
00:13:45.616 --> 00:13:48.092
if the understanding
of what excellence can be
00:13:48.092 --> 00:13:52.700
for a work expressed in a language
that is not that of classical ballet
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or eurocentric contemporary dance,
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how contemporary dance is vulgarized,
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I saw that there were barriers,
00:14:00.640 --> 00:14:02.678
and a lot of education
was yet to be done.
00:14:03.019 --> 00:14:05.929
So, I wanted to leave the milieu,
00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:08.460
as I couldn't picture myself
in it anymore.
00:14:08.705 --> 00:14:11.569
But a beautiful life saver manifested
00:14:12.005 --> 00:14:13.864
in the shape of an idea,
00:14:14.175 --> 00:14:18.322
which was to develop a project
whereby I would demonstrate
00:14:18.645 --> 00:14:21.220
to what extent African
and Afrodescendant cultures
00:14:21.220 --> 00:14:23.559
are purely contemporary.
00:14:23.904 --> 00:14:28.574
And even if they are ancestral,
00:14:28.574 --> 00:14:29.936
they are indeed contemporary
00:14:29.936 --> 00:14:33.850
because they directly combine
with the people who are creating
00:14:33.850 --> 00:14:35.434
and renewing it in the present moment.
00:14:35.715 --> 00:14:37.216
So I created BOW'T TRAIL.
00:14:37.216 --> 00:14:39.754
BOW'T TRAIL is a remembrance journey
through the Americas,
00:14:40.035 --> 00:14:42.345
which led me to seven territories
across the Americas
00:14:42.345 --> 00:14:44.310
where I re-created each time
the same piece.
00:14:44.675 --> 00:14:47.880
When I say "re-create",
I mean that there is the BOW'T work,
00:14:47.880 --> 00:14:49.570
there are like walls on the stage,
00:14:49.930 --> 00:14:52.031
there is my body, there is a musician,
00:14:52.640 --> 00:14:54.570
and there are three wooden boxes.
00:14:54.570 --> 00:14:57.990
These three wooden boxes
followed me to Martinique, to Haiti,
00:14:57.990 --> 00:15:01.650
to Brazil, to New Orleans,
to Mexico, to Halifax
00:15:01.650 --> 00:15:03.710
and to [Chojag] Montreal.
00:15:04.315 --> 00:15:06.837
So I took the same piece of work
and I challenged myself,
00:15:06.837 --> 00:15:10.642
What if I gave myself 30 days
to re-create it from A to Z
00:15:11.482 --> 00:15:13.512
with some local musicians?
00:15:14.215 --> 00:15:16.865
As a matter of fact,
I didn't know the musicians,
00:15:16.865 --> 00:15:18.632
I didn't know if we would get along,
00:15:18.710 --> 00:15:21.526
we didn't even speak the same language,
I didn't speak Portuguese.
00:15:21.526 --> 00:15:24.697
I would mumble some pidgin words
to try to say,
00:15:25.580 --> 00:15:28.510
"Can we develop this?
Here is my idea", while I was in Brazil.
00:15:28.510 --> 00:15:29.777
And they would reply, “Rhodnie,
00:15:29.777 --> 00:15:31.565
we don't know what language
you are speaking.
00:15:31.565 --> 00:15:34.059
The show is in two weeks' time
and we don't understand,
00:15:34.059 --> 00:15:36.945
but based on your gestures,
I guess we understand each other."
00:15:37.125 --> 00:15:39.815
So eventually, dance opened doors for me,
00:15:39.815 --> 00:15:41.975
helped me speak languages
that I could not speak,
00:15:41.975 --> 00:15:43.230
and create succesfully.
00:15:43.345 --> 00:15:44.530
Then after 30 days,
00:15:44.530 --> 00:15:48.042
I presented my work
at a remembrance place.
00:15:48.430 --> 00:15:51.649
And the BOW'T work that was created
in each one of those countries
00:15:51.649 --> 00:15:54.970
will never tour,
not in my life, not in my death.
00:15:54.970 --> 00:15:57.890
It's already written in my will,
it will not tour.
00:15:58.210 --> 00:16:01.176
The only work that can tour
is BOW’T TRAIL Rétrospek,
00:16:02.376 --> 00:16:04.811
a work where in fact,
the territory is my body.
00:16:05.135 --> 00:16:06.624
And as I was tracing back the memory
00:16:06.624 --> 00:16:09.281
and the history of Afrodescendant peoples
in the Americas,
00:16:09.535 --> 00:16:13.710
I conducted interviews with specialists
in each one of the territories,
00:16:14.025 --> 00:16:17.921
and I realized that it's really trippy.
00:16:18.530 --> 00:16:19.879
It's hard to perform BOW'T TRAIL,
00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:24.500
but there is something beautiful
and crispy about meeting people,
00:16:24.710 --> 00:16:29.162
going straight back to the studio,
and creating from these testimonies,
00:16:29.425 --> 00:16:31.690
rather than burying yourself
in history books,
00:16:31.690 --> 00:16:32.722
because, once again,
00:16:32.722 --> 00:16:37.128
history is poorly told in history books
about African and Afrodescendant issues.
00:16:37.128 --> 00:16:38.936
At least, their history
is being rewritten,
00:16:38.936 --> 00:16:40.605
but unfortunately, it was poorly written.
00:16:40.825 --> 00:16:45.210
What drives me to keep doing
documentary choreography today?
00:16:45.210 --> 00:16:48.876
Because I see that it is a tool
for social change,
NOTE Paragraph
00:16:48.876 --> 00:16:50.110
for a possible social change.
00:16:50.570 --> 00:16:53.784
What drives me to create
in the face of injustices?
00:16:54.970 --> 00:16:59.525
I grew up in a family
where issues around human rights
00:17:01.105 --> 00:17:03.094
were discussed at the dining table.
00:17:03.675 --> 00:17:09.485
My parents came to Quebec
during the Duvalier Sr. era,
00:17:09.485 --> 00:17:12.714
so for sure, the Haitian radio station,
00:17:13.190 --> 00:17:14.898
plus the Quebec radio station
00:17:15.510 --> 00:17:19.998
and the US TV channel were all on
at the same time at my place.
00:17:20.340 --> 00:17:22.801
I would hear about challenges
occurring in all kinds of places
00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:25.630
and my parents would encourage us
00:17:26.560 --> 00:17:29.782
to talk with confidence
about those issues,
00:17:29.782 --> 00:17:32.184
and to try to solve them
while we were sitting at the table.
00:17:32.184 --> 00:17:34.776
We could talk about the Colombia issue
00:17:34.776 --> 00:17:37.672
and we would go, "Ah, we don't agree,
what's going on there?"
00:17:37.672 --> 00:17:39.625
And we would debate the subject
around the table.
00:17:39.625 --> 00:17:45.577
So, I was trained to reflect
00:17:45.577 --> 00:17:47.503
about how, as a human being,
00:17:48.320 --> 00:17:51.970
we have a role in the decisions we make,
00:17:52.260 --> 00:17:57.061
but also to be aware
of social inequalities,
00:17:57.061 --> 00:17:59.585
whether they may be
00:18:00.775 --> 00:18:03.914
in terms of the blatant increase
in homelessness rates
00:18:03.914 --> 00:18:05.316
and profiles of people
00:18:05.316 --> 00:18:10.380
who usually were not identified
as being homeless people,
00:18:10.380 --> 00:18:13.680
but who faced this inequity
from one day to the next
00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:15.482
due to the housing situation.
00:18:15.936 --> 00:18:17.116
So for me,
00:18:17.550 --> 00:18:20.293
I quickly spot situations of inequity
00:18:20.570 --> 00:18:23.651
not only when they are talked about,
but also when they're not.
00:18:24.725 --> 00:18:29.261
And I have always thought that art
is an extremely powerful weapon
00:18:29.685 --> 00:18:32.587
and that if I was to use this weapon,
00:18:33.007 --> 00:18:37.874
it should be strong enough to capsize
something that is as big as it.
00:18:38.360 --> 00:18:40.380
That's my motto.
00:18:40.750 --> 00:18:44.312
It doesn't mean that I won't be led
to create works
00:18:46.120 --> 00:18:47.840
just for the fun of it,
00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:49.090
but I really want to... ,
00:18:49.090 --> 00:18:51.880
There needs to be a cause
to which I respond.
00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:53.623
This is my art for me.
00:18:54.565 --> 00:18:57.217
We would like to move on
to another topic
NOTE Paragraph
00:18:57.217 --> 00:18:58.738
- if you don't mind,
- Of course!
00:18:58.738 --> 00:19:02.673
because actually, Ballet Forward
focuses on anti-Black racism,
00:19:02.673 --> 00:19:05.469
so our project goal is to open minds.
00:19:05.940 --> 00:19:08.858
And I wanted to know if ballet,
00:19:08.858 --> 00:19:11.724
since it was created in Europe
a long time ago
00:19:11.724 --> 00:19:13.478
on conservative and traditional grounds,
00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:18.169
is an art that can discriminate
and exclude many communities?
00:19:18.430 --> 00:19:21.956
And if you are comfortable
talking about the topic,
00:19:21.956 --> 00:19:25.031
is racism something
that you have already experienced
00:19:25.031 --> 00:19:28.832
or maybe are still experiencing
in the ballet world,
00:19:28.832 --> 00:19:30.936
as well as at an earlier stage?
00:19:31.985 --> 00:19:34.565
I think the basis...
00:19:35.345 --> 00:19:36.862
There are many layers in there.
00:19:38.380 --> 00:19:40.235
It's important to remember that
00:19:40.235 --> 00:19:46.128
the body is one of the most
magnificent instruments to rally
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:47.880
and at the same time,
00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:51.855
it's one of the most drastic and terrible
instruments to discriminate us.
00:19:53.255 --> 00:19:56.755
And dance being an environment,
00:19:56.755 --> 00:20:00.556
where the body is the main tool,
00:20:00.915 --> 00:20:04.268
unfortunately, whether in ballet
or in other forms,
00:20:04.995 --> 00:20:09.312
the gaze and perception
00:20:10.242 --> 00:20:12.610
become a measuring tool.
00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:18.083
What is it that I perceive
of the capacity of a body
00:20:18.083 --> 00:20:19.759
before it even moves?
00:20:20.125 --> 00:20:24.094
Do I feel that it fits into the categories
00:20:24.295 --> 00:20:28.774
that my practice... defends
00:20:28.774 --> 00:20:31.013
or that my practice states?
00:20:31.812 --> 00:20:33.012
I'll give you an example.
00:20:34.120 --> 00:20:37.740
When I was 11 years old,
I had gone through several auditions
00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:40.960
because I wanted to join
a dance-study programme.
00:20:42.274 --> 00:20:47.755
Back then, there used to be,
in your current school,
00:20:48.525 --> 00:20:52.504
I was told it had a different name
in older days, it was École supérieure...
00:20:52.504 --> 00:20:55.410
- Danse?
- No, there was another name,
00:20:55.410 --> 00:20:58.800
I can't remember the exact name,
00:20:59.407 --> 00:21:05.057
but it seems to me that the title
included École Supérieure de...
00:21:05.347 --> 00:21:09.387
there was a... anyway!
00:21:09.925 --> 00:21:12.020
I had applied for this school
00:21:12.020 --> 00:21:15.887
like most of the girls who were coming out
ot Pierre-Laporte school,
00:21:15.887 --> 00:21:17.235
so that was mostly girls.
00:21:17.235 --> 00:21:19.585
And I had also applied
to join the Pierre-Laporte School.
00:21:19.585 --> 00:21:21.425
And when I received...
00:21:21.425 --> 00:21:25.058
I very much wanted to join
the first school I had applied for.
00:21:25.420 --> 00:21:27.286
When I received my rejection letter,
00:21:27.788 --> 00:21:32.938
the letter did not merely state
that I had been rejected,
00:21:33.600 --> 00:21:36.450
It analyzed my body
according to stereotypes
00:21:36.450 --> 00:21:38.390
of what ballet should require.
00:21:38.615 --> 00:21:41.665
I think I did keep my letter, actually.
00:21:43.195 --> 00:21:45.056
It dissected my muscles,
00:21:45.895 --> 00:21:51.050
saying that my leg muscles were too wide
compared to the desired aesthetics,
00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:55.784
that my curves did not meet
the aesthetic standards.
00:21:55.784 --> 00:21:59.180
It was absolutely horrible.
00:21:59.390 --> 00:22:02.504
I am convinced that no one would ever send
this kind of letter nowadays,
00:22:02.504 --> 00:22:04.590
because times have evolved
00:22:04.590 --> 00:22:07.186
and there has been
a lot of education since then.
00:22:07.577 --> 00:22:09.955
But when I opened this letter,
00:22:09.955 --> 00:22:11.710
I had been waiting for the postman,
00:22:11.710 --> 00:22:15.161
I saw the postman coming,
I opened the letter, I was very excited.
00:22:15.515 --> 00:22:17.959
Then, it was like a lead coat,
00:22:18.309 --> 00:22:23.374
it was carving out a different body
00:22:23.374 --> 00:22:25.260
that I supposedly should have.
00:22:25.260 --> 00:22:30.692
It's like telling young people
who want to become dancers,
00:22:32.265 --> 00:22:35.335
"Here, take this magazine,
look at this body,
00:22:35.335 --> 00:22:36.971
then make your body fit inside it.
00:22:37.693 --> 00:22:40.793
And if you can't fit, you're out."
00:22:41.495 --> 00:22:44.875
And being in an environment
where excellence,
00:22:44.875 --> 00:22:47.082
but I would rather say, the stringency,
00:22:48.080 --> 00:22:50.872
the relentlessness, which can be positive,
00:22:51.214 --> 00:22:55.214
with which you want to achieve perfection,
to surpass yourself,
00:22:55.544 --> 00:22:59.040
when you are very young
and have already been trained in this,
00:22:59.040 --> 00:23:00.672
and you receive such a letter
00:23:00.672 --> 00:23:03.380
telling you to go and sculpt
your body in a different way,
00:23:04.695 --> 00:23:07.915
that you don't fit in the cultural codes
that we want in ballet,
00:23:08.705 --> 00:23:11.087
and it's not even a matter of size
or what have you.
00:23:11.087 --> 00:23:14.925
It's really telling you
that your body will never fit.
00:23:15.525 --> 00:23:18.915
And I remember crumbling down
at that moment.
00:23:19.067 --> 00:23:23.631
Luckily, Laporte held auditions
not long after,
00:23:23.981 --> 00:23:25.463
and I was selected.
00:23:25.463 --> 00:23:29.315
But I still remember sitting
during my summer training,
00:23:29.315 --> 00:23:33.097
with the other people in my class,
and we were telling each other
00:23:33.097 --> 00:23:36.122
about the letters we had received
from that school.
00:23:37.525 --> 00:23:43.966
So, I do consider that these were
acts of selective discrimination
00:23:44.225 --> 00:23:48.780
based on my cultural physiognomy
00:23:48.780 --> 00:23:54.500
and not on my accomplishments
in terms of gestures or excellence,
00:23:55.070 --> 00:23:57.985
or my training background
in classical ballet.
00:23:57.985 --> 00:24:00.144
This was not a comparative measuring tool
00:24:00.895 --> 00:24:04.528
related to one's learning experience.
00:24:05.005 --> 00:24:07.922
It was based purely on aesthetics.
00:24:07.922 --> 00:24:09.831
And that, for me,
00:24:10.565 --> 00:24:12.721
was one of the biggest obstacles I saw.
00:24:12.953 --> 00:24:14.694
Because I didn't see myself,
00:24:14.694 --> 00:24:18.840
while I was very often
the only black person in my classes,
00:24:19.850 --> 00:24:23.594
I had not seen these discriminations
until that very moment.
00:24:23.594 --> 00:24:25.360
And subsequently in secondary school,
00:24:25.690 --> 00:24:28.430
it was obvious in the attribution
of certain roles,
00:24:29.625 --> 00:24:32.836
I didn't necessarily get the main roles,
00:24:32.836 --> 00:24:37.405
because that possibility
was ruled out fairly fast.
00:24:39.685 --> 00:24:42.239
What was also upsetting
unfortunately in ballet,
00:24:42.239 --> 00:24:45.493
is that often, your body
within the corps de ballet,
00:24:45.770 --> 00:24:49.168
they don't actually tell you why,
but sometimes it can be sneaky,
00:24:49.500 --> 00:24:52.282
they pick you up and say,
"Rhodnie, go to the edge.
00:24:52.803 --> 00:24:53.803
you see, go to the end."
00:24:53.990 --> 00:24:54.990
And you tell yourself,
00:24:54.990 --> 00:24:57.570
Okay,,first work, I go to the end,
second work, I go to the end,
00:24:57.570 --> 00:24:59.125
third work, I go to the end.
00:24:59.125 --> 00:25:01.271
For all works, I'm always at the end,
00:25:01.271 --> 00:25:04.485
on all the pictures I look at,
I was always put at the very end.
00:25:05.885 --> 00:25:08.707
What am I disturbing
in the corps de ballet?
00:25:10.045 --> 00:25:13.470
Is it because I just unbalance the photo?
00:25:15.050 --> 00:25:19.095
Or is it because the role I play
should always be on the right?
00:25:19.570 --> 00:25:21.784
And this is something
that can be easily seen,
00:25:21.784 --> 00:25:23.999
even in other official pictures.
00:25:25.250 --> 00:25:29.156
So for me, it was like the thing
00:25:29.156 --> 00:25:32.265
that forced me to question,
especially in ballet,
00:25:32.848 --> 00:25:35.185
to question about opening.
00:25:35.185 --> 00:25:38.245
I had conversations too,
on the opening in the body.
00:25:38.245 --> 00:25:40.106
"Ah, you know, it's correct actually,
00:25:40.106 --> 00:25:41.747
but can you just bring it to that level?"
00:25:41.747 --> 00:25:45.070
Then I said to myself, but no,
I can work my extension,
00:25:45.070 --> 00:25:46.850
it's not that I can't.
00:25:46.910 --> 00:25:48.149
So these are
00:25:50.229 --> 00:25:52.339
small seeds of information
00:25:52.739 --> 00:25:56.675
which, while the piano plays,
when we hear "And one, and two",
00:25:57.065 --> 00:25:58.845
then [we breathe to see], etc.,
00:25:58.855 --> 00:26:02.120
that this information also finds its place
00:26:02.120 --> 00:26:06.212
at the same time
as a posture adjustment.
00:26:06.832 --> 00:26:09.820
And what happens is - it's sneaky -
00:26:10.100 --> 00:26:13.505
but unfortunately, it ends up sculpting
00:26:13.597 --> 00:26:16.670
your own perception of your body,
00:26:16.670 --> 00:26:18.860
and you want to do a lot more
00:26:18.860 --> 00:26:21.156
than the person standing
in front of you or behind you
00:26:21.345 --> 00:26:23.935
at the training bar, for example.
00:26:25.185 --> 00:26:27.941
So it's because of those little things
00:26:28.338 --> 00:26:33.270
that, like other people in my class
who have gone through the same,
00:26:33.660 --> 00:26:35.598
I always did more, more, more.
00:26:35.598 --> 00:26:37.043
Even when the classes were over,
00:26:37.043 --> 00:26:39.064
I would stay in class
to work more and more,
00:26:39.350 --> 00:26:42.641
to be able to not only reach the mark
00:26:42.641 --> 00:26:44.650
which was given to everyone in the class,
00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:46.712
but to also reach my own marks,
00:26:47.335 --> 00:26:49.965
and then do better
because I have to do better.
00:26:50.075 --> 00:26:54.475
So the result is
that you never feel in your place.
00:26:55.095 --> 00:26:56.775
And I will always remember,
00:26:56.775 --> 00:27:00.626
I had a teacher one day,
Marie-Rose Chama, to whom I still speak
00:27:01.545 --> 00:27:03.470
who came to see me one day
then who told me:
00:27:03.470 --> 00:27:06.332
"Rhodnie, I have to tell you
what you will likely experience."
00:27:06.332 --> 00:27:07.959
And this woman is of Lebanese origin,
00:27:08.524 --> 00:27:12.286
then she took me aside and she said:
"You will experience barriers,
00:27:12.790 --> 00:27:14.890
you will experience racism
in this environment.
00:27:15.302 --> 00:27:16.802
There are different markets.
00:27:16.802 --> 00:27:19.085
and you will soon audition
for some them,
NOTE Paragraph
00:27:19.335 --> 00:27:21.378
so I just want you
to get ready right away."
00:27:21.918 --> 00:27:24.928
And back then,
I could not understand this woman.
00:27:24.928 --> 00:27:27.006
I was thinking,
Why is she telling me those things?
00:27:27.006 --> 00:27:28.135
No, no, I'm fine.
00:27:28.135 --> 00:27:32.920
But she was preparing me
for what ballet presented me,
00:27:33.450 --> 00:27:36.110
and for what I wasn't told directly,
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:39.330
but she had the courage
to tell me very clearly.
00:27:40.320 --> 00:27:44.070
And it was later that
I chose other artistic forms
00:27:44.605 --> 00:27:47.272
because it was really what I wanted,
00:27:48.565 --> 00:27:51.300
but it is certain that being told
things like:
00:27:51.300 --> 00:27:54.845
"When you go up on your toes,
you don't have a perfect line
00:27:54.845 --> 00:27:57.483
because we're aware
that your body is different."
00:27:57.975 --> 00:28:00.177
These are small adjustments,
00:28:00.177 --> 00:28:02.379
but because we know
that in ballet or dance,
00:28:02.932 --> 00:28:05.145
there are constant adjustments,
00:28:05.145 --> 00:28:10.466
that we always want to be
perfectly aligned with others,
00:28:10.466 --> 00:28:13.819
to be one with the corps
or even as a soloist,
00:28:16.365 --> 00:28:18.705
it means that we're being set aside.
00:28:19.085 --> 00:28:23.287
So that's all, it's a long story,
00:28:23.287 --> 00:28:25.635
but I can tell you many others like that.
00:28:28.270 --> 00:28:31.760
After sharing all of this with us,
00:28:31.900 --> 00:28:34.720
I have a question and so do my peers:
00:28:34.980 --> 00:28:36.720
for people who are,
00:28:37.250 --> 00:28:38.936
I don't know if it's the same situation,
00:28:38.936 --> 00:28:43.586
but who share a feeling of rage or sadness
00:28:43.586 --> 00:28:47.291
or feel that they are
never going to find their place,
00:28:47.291 --> 00:28:48.861
do you have any suggestions,
00:28:50.005 --> 00:28:55.701
whether it is some advice,
00:28:55.701 --> 00:28:58.083
some advice like, I don't know,
00:28:58.083 --> 00:29:02.340
it may be more personal,
00:29:03.700 --> 00:29:07.084
or trying to understand
the world of dance.
00:29:07.410 --> 00:29:10.006
Could you share some advice?
00:29:12.665 --> 00:29:16.840
I think that anger has value
in those moments.
00:29:17.665 --> 00:29:19.563
And often, we want to,
00:29:19.563 --> 00:29:21.462
because we learn to be...
00:29:22.055 --> 00:29:25.703
I think that what ballet taught me,
among other things,
00:29:25.703 --> 00:29:28.060
as well as other things I learned
in other disciplines,
00:29:28.060 --> 00:29:31.272
is to show restraint, politeness,
00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:34.530
we don't talk too much,
we don't show too much,
00:29:34.530 --> 00:29:36.061
"Don't show, don't show!"
00:29:40.805 --> 00:29:42.760
Educating yourself is the best thing.
00:29:44.470 --> 00:29:45.642
You have to educate yourself.
00:29:46.565 --> 00:29:49.283
Educate yourself,
talk to people from different generations.
00:29:49.585 --> 00:29:52.295
I have been speaking with mentors,
and I still do.
00:29:52.295 --> 00:29:53.742
I still have mentors
00:29:54.190 --> 00:29:56.050
and I will never stop having mentors.
00:29:56.950 --> 00:29:59.958
And dare to knock on someone's door,
00:29:59.958 --> 00:30:02.882
even if you don't know if this person
may have had the same experience,
00:30:02.882 --> 00:30:06.024
but ask them, "Hey, you,
some 10 years ago,
00:30:06.024 --> 00:30:07.690
20 years ago or 30 years ago,
00:30:07.690 --> 00:30:10.195
could you possibly have gone
through this kind of experience?
00:30:10.195 --> 00:30:11.555
And could you tell me about it?"
00:30:13.830 --> 00:30:14.830
Share,
00:30:15.285 --> 00:30:17.110
never doubt your instinct.
00:30:17.110 --> 00:30:19.015
You know it when there is discrimination,
00:30:19.015 --> 00:30:20.735
there aren't million different ways.
00:30:21.415 --> 00:30:25.710
And many times, you're told,
"Oh, come on, you're exaggerating."
00:30:27.660 --> 00:30:29.059
And what I learned,
00:30:29.540 --> 00:30:35.059
is that when your instinct tells you
that it is discrimination,
00:30:35.980 --> 00:30:38.286
you can be sure that it's true
95% of the time.
00:30:38.845 --> 00:30:41.745
And maybe there was a 5%
where I said to myself,
00:30:42.613 --> 00:30:46.716
Okay, I admit that I was maybe
a little hasty in the matter.
00:30:47.565 --> 00:30:52.753
But the foundation of discrimination,
particularly when it's underhand,
00:30:53.380 --> 00:30:56.950
meaning they don't tell you to your face,
00:30:56.950 --> 00:30:58.813
they don't tell you directly,
00:30:58.813 --> 00:31:02.295
but you realize it through actions.
00:31:02.847 --> 00:31:05.879
It could be,
suppose you're sitting at a table
00:31:05.879 --> 00:31:08.361
or sitting somewhere,
and all of a sudden the place is full
00:31:08.361 --> 00:31:10.935
so there's no more room for you
and you don't know where to sit.
00:31:11.835 --> 00:31:14.235
It may be in the attribution
of certain roles.
00:31:14.545 --> 00:31:19.582
What I learned
is to confront intelligently,
00:31:20.501 --> 00:31:24.109
which is not always easy,
and it's still not easy to do.
00:31:24.420 --> 00:31:26.900
But the conversation,
00:31:29.730 --> 00:31:31.040
once you have asserted yourself,
00:31:31.540 --> 00:31:34.399
is often a formidable tool.
00:31:35.395 --> 00:31:39.635
And to dare to question
without seeking an answer,
00:31:39.855 --> 00:31:42.450
dare to question
the opponent, I would say,
00:31:42.450 --> 00:31:46.345
or dare to question the person
or the contexts.
00:31:46.805 --> 00:31:49.852
And when it is a collective situation,
00:31:50.005 --> 00:31:55.585
because unfortunately,
this happens too,
00:31:56.665 --> 00:31:59.630
you have to call a pause,
00:31:59.630 --> 00:32:01.403
and say: “We need to talk.
00:32:02.210 --> 00:32:04.530
You need to really listen
00:32:04.530 --> 00:32:07.350
and I know you won't be happy
with what I'm going to say,
00:32:08.150 --> 00:32:10.425
but we'll have to examine the situation.
00:32:10.425 --> 00:32:12.345
You probably won't like
the mirror I'll show you,
00:32:12.345 --> 00:32:16.000
you might not be happy with my mirror
nor even agree with it,
00:32:16.345 --> 00:32:18.505
but I don't expect an answer
from you today.
00:32:18.505 --> 00:32:21.700
I just ask you to understand
00:32:21.700 --> 00:32:23.820
that there's a mirror
waiting for you to look into.
00:32:23.820 --> 00:32:26.720
Pluck up your courage,
and hold your mirror to them.
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:29.410
Then sometimes, it works for some people.
00:32:29.410 --> 00:32:33.431
There really were wonderful stories
00:32:33.727 --> 00:32:37.890
of reconciliation, of encounters,
00:32:38.735 --> 00:32:43.014
of respect, of apologies,
and I do believe in that.
00:32:44.915 --> 00:32:47.266
The human being,
just like other species,
00:32:47.266 --> 00:32:52.830
is compelled to adapt and to evolve.
00:32:53.500 --> 00:32:55.672
We are not different from other species.
00:32:55.863 --> 00:32:58.239
However, there are people
who are tough.
00:32:58.239 --> 00:33:04.047
But as long as things
are done with respect,
00:33:04.065 --> 00:33:06.120
and sometimes it's good to let time pass.
00:33:06.120 --> 00:33:08.735
I for one, let go of certain things
00:33:08.995 --> 00:33:13.373
and I remained without saying a word
for several years,
00:33:13.373 --> 00:33:15.015
not because I didn't want to say a word,
00:33:15.015 --> 00:33:17.197
it's not because I don't say
a word in front of people
00:33:17.197 --> 00:33:18.978
that I don't do anything
in the background.
00:33:19.470 --> 00:33:22.453
And I think that BOW'T TRAIL
is a perfect example of that.
00:33:24.520 --> 00:33:27.942
When the 75 video
web documentary came out
00:33:27.942 --> 00:33:30.903
and I'm told that there are still
more videos which were not published yet,
00:33:30.903 --> 00:33:32.530
I didn't find the time to release them,
00:33:33.115 --> 00:33:35.255
when Radio-Canada announced,
00:33:36.091 --> 00:33:38.240
three days after I had given birth
to my little one,
00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:42.385
that they would take a web documentary,
the web series and a medium-length film,
00:33:42.905 --> 00:33:46.646
I was holding my child,
and I said to my team:
00:33:46.646 --> 00:33:49.670
"Will you let me have a week off,
I just gave birth."
00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:54.139
I really was not expecting
to see three of my projects
00:33:54.139 --> 00:33:56.160
being released on Radio Cannes
at the same time.
00:33:56.702 --> 00:34:01.965
I was really scared
of not being able to produce
00:34:01.965 --> 00:34:03.684
everything I had harvested over the years,
00:34:03.684 --> 00:34:06.021
because not a single broadcast
company would accept them.
00:34:06.265 --> 00:34:07.596
We were told no,
00:34:08.025 --> 00:34:10.364
that it wouldn't interest people,
then that was it.
00:34:11.659 --> 00:34:12.659
So,
NOTE Paragraph
00:34:13.275 --> 00:34:15.902
I deeply believe in conversation,
00:34:17.250 --> 00:34:19.050
but in its own time.
00:34:21.060 --> 00:34:23.225
When I say in its own time,
00:34:24.375 --> 00:34:26.418
it means that not everyone
is ready to converse.
00:34:26.570 --> 00:34:28.521
You should not force yourself to converse.
00:34:28.975 --> 00:34:31.344
Then even when there is
a situation of discrimination,
00:34:31.344 --> 00:34:33.295
if you want to sit down and talk,
00:34:34.045 --> 00:34:36.015
if you're not ready, you're not ready.
00:34:36.705 --> 00:34:38.235
You have the right to not be ready.
00:34:38.885 --> 00:34:44.035
Discriminations are scars on the soul.
00:34:44.890 --> 00:34:47.106
They often last for a lifetime.
00:34:47.690 --> 00:34:49.263
And at this depth,
00:34:50.490 --> 00:34:54.110
if it is even slightly grasped by people,
00:34:55.050 --> 00:34:59.875
this will allow them to understand
why there is no conversation,
00:35:00.785 --> 00:35:03.795
why it can take five years,
six years, seven years,
00:35:04.575 --> 00:35:07.165
why there will be a distance
00:35:08.075 --> 00:35:10.825
and why, when the time comes
that we can talk to each other,
00:35:10.825 --> 00:35:12.025
it will be the right time.
00:35:13.290 --> 00:35:18.745
So meet, give yourself time,
educate yourself,
00:35:19.050 --> 00:35:23.545
read, watch documentaries,
talk with people.
00:35:28.315 --> 00:35:32.182
I think this is going to be
our last questions,
00:35:33.275 --> 00:35:35.755
I'd like to talk again
about your creations,
00:35:36.060 --> 00:35:38.997
we thought about this before,
we mentioned it,
00:35:39.303 --> 00:35:42.960
how do you precisely approach racism
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:45.047
and other such stakes in your creations?
00:35:45.047 --> 00:35:47.405
I know you explained to us
00:35:47.405 --> 00:35:51.489
how you handled
the documentary choreography,
00:35:51.489 --> 00:35:55.776
but when we're talking about racism,
have you created one
00:35:55.776 --> 00:36:00.437
and if so, what was your foundation?
00:36:00.437 --> 00:36:03.397
Was it about your past or witnesses?
00:36:06.605 --> 00:36:08.890
What is interesting
in documentary choreography,
00:36:08.890 --> 00:36:10.630
is it's never about me.
00:36:10.630 --> 00:36:12.980
I can start from an experience,
00:36:12.980 --> 00:36:16.829
I think that like any person,
we are biased on a subject
00:36:17.972 --> 00:36:19.392
because we have experienced it.
00:36:20.285 --> 00:36:23.885
The beauty of it
is the BOW'T TRAIL journey
00:36:23.885 --> 00:36:27.697
because not all my works speak
of racism and discrimination.
00:36:28.445 --> 00:36:30.171
Even BOW'T TRAIL is a journey,
00:36:30.925 --> 00:36:35.420
yes, that talks about the slave trade,
about discrimination,
00:36:35.800 --> 00:36:37.260
but it's moving forward.
00:36:37.640 --> 00:36:40.582
And the 15 musicians with whom
I have worked all over the world,
00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:43.840
it highlights the strength of resilience,
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:46.360
the force of cultural re-creation.
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:49.020
It's still quite fascinating that today,
00:36:49.855 --> 00:36:51.924
today, we are not capable,
00:36:53.745 --> 00:36:57.584
we are not even capable in fact
to name all the rhythms
00:36:57.584 --> 00:37:00.669
and all the musical movements of the world
00:37:01.029 --> 00:37:04.680
which exist based on African,
Afrodescendant rhythms,
00:37:04.680 --> 00:37:06.050
because as we speak,
00:37:06.050 --> 00:37:08.208
there are plenty more being created,
00:37:08.208 --> 00:37:09.410
that we don't even know about.
00:37:09.410 --> 00:37:11.485
I take an example, when I was in Brazil,
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:14.200
there is what is called the Passinho.
00:37:14.200 --> 00:37:18.455
The young people from the favelas
came to tell me about this.
00:37:18.755 --> 00:37:20.889
I was in a museum called
00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:25.475
El Museo de los Pretos Novos,
in Rio de Janeiro.
00:37:25.475 --> 00:37:28.115
They were sitting with researchers,
then we talked,
00:37:28.115 --> 00:37:30.700
I talked about my research.
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:34.520
There was a silent lady
who told me, "I am a lawyer,
00:37:34.520 --> 00:37:38.380
I am also a dancer, Carolina Peres,
00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:41.918
I was the only black lawyer
in my university,
00:37:41.918 --> 00:37:43.521
then I launched a movement
00:37:44.245 --> 00:37:49.988
which allows young people to mobilize
rather than using weapons."
00:37:50.925 --> 00:37:54.045
Then at the time, it was every...
00:37:55.555 --> 00:37:58.410
I think it was every 30 minutes...
00:37:58.410 --> 00:38:00.494
Oh my God, I should review the statistics.
00:38:00.494 --> 00:38:04.090
Every 23 minutes,
there is a young black man
00:38:04.090 --> 00:38:07.156
who dies because
of systemic racism in Brazil,
00:38:07.156 --> 00:38:08.400
that was in 2016.
00:38:09.700 --> 00:38:13.068
So this situation,
00:38:13.068 --> 00:38:14.729
she told me, "I have young sons,
00:38:14.729 --> 00:38:17.095
and one of them
might just go any moment
NOTE Paragraph
00:38:17.095 --> 00:38:20.374
because the police made
a different decision about his life."
00:38:21.825 --> 00:38:23.055
Then when I arrived in Brazil,
00:38:23.055 --> 00:38:28.070
there was a demonstration
with Afrodescendant and Native mothers
00:38:28.070 --> 00:38:29.670
marching side by side
00:38:30.050 --> 00:38:32.200
to fight against racial discrimination.
00:38:34.210 --> 00:38:36.850
When we talk about racism in our works,
00:38:36.850 --> 00:38:39.336
for me, it's more about giving a voice
00:38:39.336 --> 00:38:41.822
to those women
who were marching in the street,
00:38:42.205 --> 00:38:45.355
to give a voice to these young people
who told me about Passinho,
00:38:45.355 --> 00:38:47.972
who tell me that they dance
barefoot in the favela
00:38:47.972 --> 00:38:49.508
to say that they still exist.
00:38:49.545 --> 00:38:51.615
Then how I gave them
a voice in the artwork,
00:38:51.615 --> 00:38:56.160
I was in tears
when they told me their stories
00:38:56.380 --> 00:38:59.724
that despite me being solo,
I told them, I can't dance a solo,
00:38:59.900 --> 00:39:02.511
that would be me not listening to you.
00:39:02.710 --> 00:39:05.595
Which means that halfway through my work
when I go to open my message,
00:39:05.595 --> 00:39:07.075
because I always have a message,
00:39:07.655 --> 00:39:09.770
I need you to leave the audience,
00:39:09.770 --> 00:39:13.175
then you come on stage
and do what you want,
00:39:13.175 --> 00:39:16.646
it's not about excellence, perfection,
00:39:16.646 --> 00:39:19.305
it's about the excellence of saying
to the people that you exist,
00:39:19.305 --> 00:39:21.595
and that you may not be there
for much longer.
00:39:22.060 --> 00:39:24.354
I would like you to come
speak out in my work,
00:39:24.354 --> 00:39:26.729
and do what you want with it,
it belongs to you.
00:39:27.314 --> 00:39:30.534
And this is how I speak.
00:39:30.600 --> 00:39:35.117
This is how I give voice
because I build bridges with realities.
00:39:35.675 --> 00:39:38.101
Then we talked
to these young people again,
00:39:38.101 --> 00:39:40.575
they had tears in their eyes,
they said to me : "Rhodnie,
00:39:40.575 --> 00:39:43.595
you understood our reality,
you understood what we are going through."
00:39:43.595 --> 00:39:47.335
As for me, I am happy because
I was able to show people that I exist,
00:39:47.345 --> 00:39:51.576
but we are not applauding a work
because it's beautiful or not.
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:54.980
These are matters of life and death.
00:39:55.830 --> 00:39:59.089
And in the end, it's also
what BOW'T TRAIL is about.
00:39:59.089 --> 00:40:01.300
BOW'T TRAIL tells exactly that.
00:40:01.995 --> 00:40:04.051
The manner how I trace these images,
00:40:04.051 --> 00:40:07.515
is through gravity
that resides in my body.
00:40:07.515 --> 00:40:09.725
So when I dance BOW'T TRAIL Retrospek,
00:40:10.427 --> 00:40:14.017
I would even challenge you to learn
an excerpt from BOW'T TRAIL Rétrospek.
00:40:14.310 --> 00:40:19.418
You need to feel
the 140 testimonies in your body
00:40:19.418 --> 00:40:20.750
all speaking at the same time,
00:40:20.960 --> 00:40:21.960
then one gesture,
00:40:22.170 --> 00:40:24.170
it's 140 voices at the same time.
00:40:24.970 --> 00:40:27.495
That's the weight
of BOW'T TRAIL Rétrospek
00:40:27.495 --> 00:40:29.260
That's why I love it so much.
00:40:29.540 --> 00:40:30.540
So,
00:40:33.160 --> 00:40:34.845
addressing inequity issues
00:40:35.555 --> 00:40:37.716
means agreeing to put your body
00:40:39.451 --> 00:40:41.691
in a burning oven.
00:40:42.350 --> 00:40:44.060
Like that, yes.
00:40:45.345 --> 00:40:46.830
We are far from aesthetics.
00:40:46.830 --> 00:40:48.500
We don't take away the aesthetics.
00:40:48.755 --> 00:40:50.590
But you know,
00:40:53.460 --> 00:40:57.684
dancing goes beyond just saying,
I want to achieve that.
00:40:58.215 --> 00:41:02.474
That you carry inside you
such a strong message
00:41:03.255 --> 00:41:06.055
that it is absolutely necessary
that you pass it on to someone else.
00:41:06.055 --> 00:41:08.229
That's what interests me in my works.
00:41:08.743 --> 00:41:09.883
That's it, I'll stop there.
00:41:11.510 --> 00:41:13.820
- That's super inspiring, thank you.
- Rhodnie, thank you.
00:41:13.820 --> 00:41:15.460
Thank you so much.
00:41:17.085 --> 00:41:20.375
One last question
to conclude the discussion,
00:41:20.375 --> 00:41:22.679
what are you currently working on?
00:41:24.282 --> 00:41:26.402
Any plans, things like that?
00:41:26.885 --> 00:41:29.945
Yes, so right now,
this is really my beautiful baby.
00:41:29.945 --> 00:41:32.025
So right now, Im finally updating
00:41:32.025 --> 00:41:34.205
something I've been wanting
to develop for 10 years
00:41:34.205 --> 00:41:36.942
which is a documentary
choreographic laboratory
00:41:36.942 --> 00:41:38.760
which means that RD Créations
00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:42.787
having developed expertise today
in documentary choreography,
00:41:42.787 --> 00:41:45.427
we are now launching two laboratories
at the same time,
00:41:45.427 --> 00:41:48.900
it means that we are developing
our works in prototype form,
00:41:48.900 --> 00:41:51.722
a bit like engineers
who do research and development.
00:41:52.055 --> 00:41:53.835
We do prototyping of works
00:41:53.850 --> 00:41:56.093
to see the full potential around the work
00:41:56.093 --> 00:41:59.663
both at the partner, costumes,
dance and lighting level.
00:41:59.895 --> 00:42:02.484
So, we just entered
two creation prototypes
00:42:02.484 --> 00:42:03.484
for our two subjects.
00:42:03.775 --> 00:42:05.355
The first one is called SCÒ.
00:42:06.535 --> 00:42:10.736
SCÒ addresses the issue of scoliosis.
00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:12.415
I have scoliosis.
00:42:12.415 --> 00:42:14.643
So, while we are talking about
resistance and inequity,
00:42:14.643 --> 00:42:17.248
I had scoliosis and I almost had surgery.
00:42:18.360 --> 00:42:21.040
But I kept dancing and I still do.
00:42:22.175 --> 00:42:24.365
So, SCÒ addresses the issue
00:42:24.365 --> 00:42:27.535
of all these psychological
and physiological twists
00:42:27.535 --> 00:42:32.519
that young teenage girls
have to carry until adulthood.
00:42:33.450 --> 00:42:34.930
And I say young girl because
00:42:34.930 --> 00:42:38.230
it's mainly 90% if not more
of young girls who suffer from it.
00:42:38.770 --> 00:42:42.870
And it's going to become
a digital installation
00:42:42.870 --> 00:42:46.215
with performance
and musical performance.
00:42:47.875 --> 00:42:50.755
Then in fact, another work
is also coming soon,
00:42:50.755 --> 00:42:54.455
I'm starting right now
my research regarding KÒSA.
00:42:54.915 --> 00:42:58.127
KÒSA in Creole means this body
00:42:58.518 --> 00:43:02.458
and we address the issue of death
told from the children
00:43:02.900 --> 00:43:08.170
and from specialists in astrophysics,
in theology and dermatology.
00:43:09.511 --> 00:43:10.511
Wow!
00:43:15.317 --> 00:43:19.318
Just to compare, but do you have
places where you present them
00:43:19.318 --> 00:43:23.077
or it will be on the internet,
do you still know...?
00:43:24.580 --> 00:43:30.030
In fact, the beauty of
a documentary choreographic laboratory,
00:43:30.660 --> 00:43:33.700
is we give ourselves the freedom
not to know how it will turn out,
00:43:33.700 --> 00:43:34.919
and that's the fun of it.
00:43:34.919 --> 00:43:39.800
For example, SCÒ, I was convinced
it was going be a group work
00:43:40.315 --> 00:43:44.074
with maybe four, five performers,
00:43:44.355 --> 00:43:46.705
then we were going to have
scenographic objects on stage,
00:43:46.705 --> 00:43:48.779
then the musicians we work with,
00:43:49.425 --> 00:43:50.855
the Aukan group in Toronto,
00:43:50.855 --> 00:43:53.438
we say OK,
it's going to be a work on stage.
00:43:54.090 --> 00:43:59.210
And after 36 hours of creation
in the laboratory with a scenographer,
00:43:59.210 --> 00:44:02.010
videographer, lighting coordinator,
00:44:02.010 --> 00:44:06.080
the testimonies I collected
from Saint-Justine, chiropractors,
00:44:06.750 --> 00:44:07.860
a lot of people.
00:44:09.025 --> 00:44:11.301
And with the University of Montreal
as a partner too.
00:44:12.615 --> 00:44:17.985
In the end, I realized it wasn't
a dance show on a regular stage,
00:44:18.515 --> 00:44:21.985
that the message had to be channelled
00:44:21.985 --> 00:44:27.867
in an audio, digital, projection
and performance installation,
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:29.569
from time to time,
00:44:29.989 --> 00:44:32.752
which means that our new market
becomes museums.
00:44:33.352 --> 00:44:36.230
So, RD Créations
has already set up an exhibition,
00:44:37.110 --> 00:44:38.825
the Conversation exhibition,
00:44:38.825 --> 00:44:41.395
but we are going to do
our second iteration
00:44:41.395 --> 00:44:43.484
in digital installation,
00:44:43.854 --> 00:44:45.225
then it will be the SCÒ project.
00:44:45.225 --> 00:44:47.577
In fact, we are right on the dot
right now,
00:44:47.577 --> 00:44:48.807
which means that the dance,
00:44:49.225 --> 00:44:51.728
then the documentary choreography
takes us to something else.
00:44:52.420 --> 00:44:54.180
And in holding this freedom,
00:44:54.180 --> 00:44:57.720
if we had sealed it right away
with a dance diffuser,
00:44:57.940 --> 00:45:02.230
we would be in a bad position to say
that in the end, it wasn't a dance show.
00:45:02.420 --> 00:45:04.894
The dance show is coming
into the performance
00:45:04.894 --> 00:45:07.325
of the digital installation
which should be in a museum.
00:45:07.555 --> 00:45:10.752
Whereas now, we are really capable
of having an even clearer vision,
00:45:10.752 --> 00:45:12.715
a more measured proposal,
00:45:12.715 --> 00:45:14.745
then an ability to rally partners
00:45:14.745 --> 00:45:17.390
which will be all the more oriented
towards what we want to do.
00:45:17.775 --> 00:45:21.450
Then for KÒSA,
I imagine it is my next symphony
00:45:21.450 --> 00:45:26.003
as it is still a work
which is likely to be quite big
00:45:26.003 --> 00:45:28.362
because of the three major subjects
that we are approaching.
00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:31.202
And it's a piece scheduled for 2028, 2029.
00:45:31.855 --> 00:45:34.309
So, we work on three years,
00:45:34.525 --> 00:45:38.115
our company, our creations rarely drop,
00:45:38.255 --> 00:45:41.955
the earliest is two and a half years,
two years and some of work,
00:45:42.355 --> 00:45:45.075
but the documentary choreography
requires three years of work.
00:45:45.500 --> 00:45:48.598
You really, really need
good documentation,
00:45:48.598 --> 00:45:50.219
relevant archiving,
00:45:50.540 --> 00:45:52.090
rallied partners,
00:45:52.330 --> 00:45:55.840
a choreography where the signature,
is all the more refined.
00:45:56.060 --> 00:46:00.060
Then let's not forget polyrhythm
for RD Créations and language,
00:46:00.060 --> 00:46:02.502
documentary choreography
which is really important.
00:46:02.788 --> 00:46:07.257
If we want body language
to be really strong,
00:46:07.495 --> 00:46:11.489
musical language must also be written
00:46:11.489 --> 00:46:14.190
at the same time than body language.
00:46:14.510 --> 00:46:17.170
So this is another body
that we could talk about.
00:46:17.170 --> 00:46:20.736
What is the link
body/music, body/instrument.
00:46:22.030 --> 00:46:23.069
Yes,
00:46:23.070 --> 00:46:27.107
the role of the musician as an accompanist
00:46:27.915 --> 00:46:29.266
outside the classic
00:46:29.266 --> 00:46:32.150
because there's a whole universe
in polyrhythm.
00:46:33.915 --> 00:46:36.670
Super inspiring, really inspiring.
00:46:36.670 --> 00:46:40.813
Thank you very much for your time
00:46:41.500 --> 00:46:44.260
allowing us to discuss and chat like that,
it's really interesting.
00:46:44.510 --> 00:46:47.140
I'm happy to hear that,
but I have a question for you.
00:46:47.369 --> 00:46:48.369
Yes.
00:46:48.369 --> 00:46:53.370
I would like to know today,
if you look at the dance world,
00:46:53.370 --> 00:46:56.855
you have your dreams, but what are they?
00:47:02.264 --> 00:47:05.722
I think that touching people
00:47:05.836 --> 00:47:08.666
because I dream of being on stage,
00:47:08.666 --> 00:47:12.139
but more than impacting myself,
00:47:12.139 --> 00:47:14.410
I want to have an impact
on those around me.
00:47:14.410 --> 00:47:18.402
So I think that all that
you explained to us today,
00:47:18.402 --> 00:47:21.290
what you shared with us is inspiring
00:47:21.290 --> 00:47:25.060
because it confirms that it is possible
00:47:26.010 --> 00:47:29.460
to touch hundreds and thousands of people
00:47:30.535 --> 00:47:32.715
and yes, that's it.
00:47:32.775 --> 00:47:34.586
For me, it's a bit the same thing,
00:47:34.586 --> 00:47:38.924
I think it's about living
especially through dance
00:47:38.924 --> 00:47:43.284
and see how it can affect everyone,
00:47:43.284 --> 00:47:47.398
then I would say people
are more open nowadays,
00:47:47.398 --> 00:47:51.470
and the fact that we are open
to all communities,
00:47:51.470 --> 00:47:54.530
and that everyone will have
the opportunity to dance,
00:47:54.750 --> 00:47:56.252
so that's my dream.
00:47:57.265 --> 00:47:59.555
It's that there are no more barriers.
00:48:00.235 --> 00:48:02.825
I wish that for you collectively, yes.
00:48:03.110 --> 00:48:04.120
Thank you!
00:48:04.415 --> 00:48:07.705
Yes, to make the biggest dreams come true,
00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:11.120
the wildest dreams
that you already have in mind
00:48:11.570 --> 00:48:13.860
and especially those
that you don't know yet.
00:48:16.210 --> 00:48:18.180
Yes, thank you.
00:48:19.552 --> 00:48:25.181
Follow those young Canadians and join them
in their efforts to change the world