0:00:00.120,0:00:03.320 I'm here with Sara van Oordt [br]from Christians for Israel. 0:00:03.440,0:00:08.800 Money from Christians for Israel [br]helps to fund illegal settlements. 0:00:08.920,0:00:13.960 This money may even buy weapons, [br]as we discovered together with Investico. 0:00:17.080,0:00:18.320 Right? 0:00:18.440,0:00:20.960 No. [br]-Yes. 0:00:23.960,0:00:25.440 Here we go. 0:00:25.560,0:00:29.160 We can help people get pistol licenses. 0:00:29.280,0:00:36.520 He went there once and they tied him up [br]and destroyed about 400 trees... 0:00:36.640,0:00:38.040 while he was watching. 0:00:38.160,0:00:44.200 Christian Zionism sees Jews [br]only as instrumental. 0:00:44.320,0:00:48.160 And there's something anti-Semitic in that. 0:00:48.280,0:00:54.000 If you transfer this amount,[br]my advice is to use a neutral description. 0:00:54.120,0:00:57.760 "Support for Judea and Samaria"[br]or something like that. 0:00:57.880,0:00:59.600 No, that isn't neutral. 0:00:59.720,0:01:03.560 Is that wine from the territories sold here?[br]-Yes. 0:01:03.680,0:01:07.800 Why?[br]-Because it's very good wine. 0:01:11.280,0:01:13.880 This is the land of Jamal Faris... 0:01:14.000,0:01:18.800 a Palestinian olive farmer [br]in Deir Istiya on the West Bank. 0:01:18.920,0:01:23.400 The land has been owned by his family [br]since the 1950s... 0:01:23.520,0:01:25.360 but in the early 1990s... 0:01:25.480,0:01:31.360 a few white trailers appear on the edge [br]of Jamal's land on Palestinian territory. 0:01:31.480,0:01:37.680 These are houses of Israeli settlers,[br]and they call their settlement Revava. 0:01:37.800,0:01:42.280 Behind me in Nijkerk here[br]is Christians for Israel's headquarters... 0:01:42.400,0:01:45.080 a Zionist Christian foundation. 0:01:45.200,0:01:50.960 In this broadcast, we'll explain the link[br]between Jamal's land and this building. 0:01:51.080,0:01:58.480 Jamal can't live and work normally [br]on the West Bank due to the Revava settlers. 0:01:58.600,0:02:03.680 The foundation in this Nijkerk building[br]is one of the facilitators for this. 0:02:03.800,0:02:07.440 Because we discovered with Investico [br]and the Nederlands Dagblad newspaper... 0:02:07.560,0:02:12.040 that Dutch Christian Zionist organizations[br]contribute financially... 0:02:12.160,0:02:16.960 to the expansion of illegal settlements [br]on the West Bank. 0:02:17.080,0:02:20.840 And this money can be used [br]to bypass European sanctions... 0:02:20.960,0:02:23.720 or purchase weapons for settlers. 0:02:23.840,0:02:25.200 So pay attention. 0:02:30.160,0:02:34.520 This story begins with Jamal, [br]a Palestinian olive farmer. 0:02:34.640,0:02:37.800 As we mentioned, Jamal has a problem. 0:02:37.920,0:02:44.240 My name is Jamal Faris. [br]I'm a Palestinian from the West Bank... 0:02:44.360,0:02:47.080 ...from a small town called Deir Istiya. 0:02:47.200,0:02:49.240 I was a teacher. 0:02:51.360,0:02:56.080 And a farmer.[br]I have an olive tree field. 0:02:57.880,0:03:00.920 And we cannot take care of it right now. 0:03:01.040,0:03:05.240 But why can't Jamal take care [br]of his olive trees anymore? 0:03:05.360,0:03:08.040 Here's a brief history lesson. 0:03:08.160,0:03:12.640 After World War II, in 1948, [br]the state of Israel is declared. 0:03:12.760,0:03:15.160 Many Palestinians in this area... 0:03:15.280,0:03:20.120 are displaced and settle in Gaza[br]and on the West Bank... 0:03:20.240,0:03:23.240 the area between Israel [br]and the Jordan River. 0:03:23.360,0:03:28.960 The 1949 armistice created a border [br]between Israel and the Palestinian territories. 0:03:29.080,0:03:34.640 This border, known as the Green Line, [br]is still observed by the United Nations. 0:03:34.760,0:03:42.760 But during the Six-Day War in 1967, [br]Israel captured the West Bank. 0:03:42.880,0:03:46.840 Israel has occupied the area to this day. 0:03:46.960,0:03:51.280 The Palestinian Authority [br]has limited self-rule in Zones A and B... 0:03:51.400,0:03:53.520 as agreed in the Oslo Accords. 0:03:53.640,0:03:57.800 The vast majority, zone C, [br]is governed by Israel. 0:03:57.920,0:04:01.960 However, this doesn't mean [br]Israel can take the land. 0:04:02.080,0:04:07.920 All Israeli settlements in occupied areas [br]are illegal under international law. 0:04:08.040,0:04:12.960 In July 2024, the International [br]Court of Justice reaffirmed this. 0:04:13.080,0:04:18.160 It ruled that the settlements Israel built[br]in the West Bank should not exist... 0:04:18.280,0:04:23.040 and that Israel must withdraw its settlers [br]from Palestinian territories. 0:04:23.160,0:04:27.920 But Israeli settlers have been expanding [br]their authority for decades... 0:04:28.040,0:04:31.640 by building more settlements [br]on Palestinian land. 0:04:31.760,0:04:37.720 Increasingly, settlers do this with the help [br]of the Israeli army, using a lot of violence. 0:04:37.840,0:04:41.640 Like Revava, right next to [br]Jamal's olive grove. 0:04:41.760,0:04:44.880 This field was actually planted... 0:04:45.000,0:04:53.600 by my father in 1956 and [br]before the Israeli occupation in 1967. 0:04:54.600,0:05:00.080 In 1991 the settlement started[br]very small at the beginning... 0:05:00.200,0:05:05.440 and started expanding, [br]and now it's a big settlement. 0:05:05.560,0:05:12.800 It took all the land over there and [br]they have their wall at the border of my land. 0:05:14.640,0:05:18.840 We had a problem in the past twenty years[br]taking care of that land... 0:05:18.960,0:05:21.040 during my father's time. 0:05:21.160,0:05:28.440 He went there once and they tied him up [br]and they destroyed about 400 trees... 0:05:28.560,0:05:30.480 while he was watching... 0:05:30.600,0:05:37.560 and they let the sewage come through [br]our land and killed about 200 trees. 0:05:37.680,0:05:42.880 So now we don't have too much left, [br]but we still have problems getting there... 0:05:43.000,0:05:45.320 to harvest our trees. 0:05:45.440,0:05:49.800 I can't go by myself [br]because I might get beaten or shot. 0:05:49.920,0:05:53.480 Shortly after the ceasefire in Gaza [br]last January... 0:05:53.600,0:05:58.080 the Israeli army launched[br]a wide-scale offensive in the West Bank. 0:05:58.200,0:06:02.240 Palestinians are driven away, [br]attacked, and murdered. 0:06:02.360,0:06:06.160 Settler violence has also increased recently. 0:06:06.280,0:06:09.960 Over a hundred incidents have been[br]recorded since early last year. 0:06:10.080,0:06:13.280 This is my land.[br]I want to take care of it. 0:06:13.400,0:06:16.840 I don't want to give it up.[br]I want to... 0:06:16.960,0:06:19.000 fix it... 0:06:21.120,0:06:22.760 or I will lose it. 0:06:22.880,0:06:26.360 So with Investico and Nederlands Dagblad [br]we investigated... 0:06:26.480,0:06:31.040 the Dutch Christian Zionist organisations[br]contributing financially... 0:06:31.160,0:06:35.400 to making Jamal's life a misery,[br]among other things. 0:06:35.520,0:06:37.080 I'm Janneke Stegeman. 0:06:37.200,0:06:41.360 I'm a theologian[br]with a PhD on the Hebrew Bible... 0:06:41.480,0:06:45.800 and the relationship between identity [br]and conflict in Hebrew texts... 0:06:45.920,0:06:52.320 such as the use of the Hebrew Bible [br]in today's conflicts in Israel and Palestine. 0:06:52.440,0:06:56.600 And I teach at VU University.[br]-I'm Ari Dubnov, a historian. 0:06:56.720,0:07:00.720 I was, born and raised [br]and educated in Israel. 0:07:00.840,0:07:07.040 I teach Israel studies and Middle Eastern [br]studies at George Washington University. 0:07:07.160,0:07:11.920 Zionism is a movement which states[br]that Jews... 0:07:12.040,0:07:17.640 belong in Israel,[br]seen as their historic homeland. 0:07:17.760,0:07:24.160 Zionism started as Christian Zionism, [br]specifically among Protestants in Europe. 0:07:24.280,0:07:28.920 This was mainly in the Dutch Republic[br]and also in England. 0:07:29.040,0:07:31.520 Even before the Zionist movement... 0:07:31.640,0:07:35.560 before Herzl and people [br]calling themselves Zionists... 0:07:35.680,0:07:40.520 there were already Christian Zionists, [br]so to speak, saying: 0:07:40.640,0:07:43.720 "We envision the return of the Jews [br]to the Holy Land... 0:07:43.840,0:07:47.840 and then it will bring [br]the second coming of Christ." 0:07:47.960,0:07:50.920 Christians see Jesus as the Messiah... 0:07:51.040,0:07:55.600 who ascended to Heaven and [br]will return on Judgment Day. 0:07:55.720,0:08:00.760 This second coming of Christ [br]involves various convictions. 0:08:00.880,0:08:04.560 Including the return of all Jews [br]to the Holy Land... 0:08:04.680,0:08:08.720 and converting to Christianity. 0:08:08.840,0:08:14.720 These texts are largely set [br]in Biblical Judea and Samaria... 0:08:14.840,0:08:18.800 with Biblical places like East Jerusalem[br]and Bethlehem. 0:08:18.920,0:08:25.040 So in the Biblical idea that Jews [br]must return to the Holy Land... 0:08:25.160,0:08:28.240 this area is a vital part of this land. 0:08:33.080,0:08:37.520 Shortly, we'll call a controversial Israeli settler [br]in the West Bank. 0:08:37.640,0:08:39.520 We'll discuss donating money... 0:08:39.640,0:08:44.880 as Dutch donations play a significant part[br]in this story. Attention. 0:08:52.240,0:08:56.840 Violating human rights and [br]destroying Palestinian lives... 0:08:56.960,0:09:01.800 has a very simple practical side:[br]it requires money. 0:09:01.920,0:09:08.160 We'll show you how this money flows[br]and the crucial role of the Netherlands. 0:09:09.800,0:09:13.880 How important are the Dutch [br]for the Christian Friends of Israel? 0:09:14.000,0:09:15.960 Wonderful people, just wonderful. 0:09:16.080,0:09:21.280 We love them deeply and the relationship [br]is so strong. Friendship. 0:09:21.400,0:09:25.120 You heard Sondra Baras speaking [br]to our colleagues from Investico... 0:09:25.240,0:09:28.800 when they visited the West Bank[br]last January. 0:09:28.920,0:09:32.960 Baras is the founder and [br]former director of the CFO-IC... 0:09:33.080,0:09:36.640 the Christian Friends of Israeli Communities. 0:09:38.000,0:09:42.600 This CFO-IC is an international [br]Christian Zionist organization... 0:09:42.720,0:09:47.200 that coordinates projects [br]in the settlements on the West Bank. 0:09:47.320,0:09:51.120 The money CFO-IC receives [br]from donors around the world... 0:09:51.240,0:09:55.640 flows through Baras [br]to these settlements on the West Bank. 0:09:55.760,0:10:00.160 These funds are used for community centers [br]and clinics... 0:10:00.280,0:10:03.920 but also on drones and [br]bulletproof vests for settlers. 0:10:04.040,0:10:06.640 Israel receives funds [br]from around the world... 0:10:06.760,0:10:12.160 but in financial aid to the settler movement,[br]the Netherlands plays a key part. 0:10:12.280,0:10:16.480 While the US is probably the primary [br]financial contributor, says Baras... 0:10:16.600,0:10:20.040 the relationship with the Netherlands[br]is also very close. 0:10:20.160,0:10:25.360 Our partnership with Holland is vital.[br]We work closely with Christians for Israel. 0:10:25.480,0:10:31.120 Christians for Israel, or CFI,[br]has a turnover of 13 million euros. 0:10:31.240,0:10:34.400 It's the largest Christian Zionist foundation [br]in the Netherlands... 0:10:34.520,0:10:39.720 and supports projects on the West Bank,[br]according to research by Investico. 0:10:39.840,0:10:44.520 CFI, based in Nijkerk,[br]was founded in the 1980s... 0:10:44.640,0:10:48.840 and mainly finds support within [br]the orthodox-Protestant churches. 0:10:48.960,0:10:50.480 CFI's mission is... 0:10:50.600,0:10:55.920 making Christians aware of the Jewish [br]people's role in God's world plan. 0:10:56.040,0:10:59.920 The foundation doesn't see the West Bank [br]as occupied territory... 0:11:00.040,0:11:05.400 but as the heart of Biblical Israel [br]assigned to the Jewish people. 0:11:05.520,0:11:10.960 CFI therefore does not use the term [br]West Bank, but Judea and Samaria. 0:11:11.080,0:11:16.320 CFI's influence extends to the highest circles [br]in American politics. 0:11:16.440,0:11:18.040 Listen to Leon Meijer... 0:11:18.160,0:11:24.120 former board member of the Christian Union [br]Party and current CFI international chair. 0:11:24.240,0:11:30.320 Mr. Meijer, you were at Mar-a-Lago [br]not too long ago. Why were you there? 0:11:30.440,0:11:35.440 There was a Jerusalem Prayer Breakfast,[br]a gathering for Jerusalem's peace. 0:11:35.560,0:11:40.280 And the organization [br]had discussed this with Trump. 0:11:40.400,0:11:43.800 "Can we hold this prayer meeting [br]at your estate?" 0:11:43.920,0:11:48.160 He replied, "Jerusalem is close to my heart.[br]I've moved the American embassy there... 0:11:48.280,0:11:52.000 so I invite you to have the prayer meeting [br]on the estate." 0:11:52.120,0:11:54.560 A remarkable choice, I think. [br]-Yes. 0:11:54.680,0:11:59.480 CFI has its own newspaper, talk show, [br]and retail company... 0:11:59.600,0:12:04.800 called Israel Products Center,[br]offering goods from the... 0:12:04.920,0:12:09.160 as they call it, "Promised Land",[br]including the occupied territories. 0:12:09.280,0:12:14.840 There's also a business club [br]with over 300 entrepreneurs. 0:12:14.960,0:12:18.960 CFI also organizes trips to Israel[br]for volunteers and... 0:12:19.080,0:12:22.440 in line with the orthodox-Protestant [br]Zionist body of thought... 0:12:22.560,0:12:27.280 helps Jewish people [br]from around the world with "aliyah": 0:12:27.400,0:12:31.400 The return to the promised land. 0:12:31.520,0:12:34.600 They're going to build up a new life in Israel. 0:12:34.720,0:12:39.240 It makes me think of Isaiah 43,[br]where the Lord says: 0:12:39.360,0:12:43.880 "Bring my sons and bring my daughters home[br]from far away." 0:12:44.000,0:12:48.680 These young Jewish children[br]between 13 and 17 years... 0:12:48.800,0:12:55.480 are the young new sons and daughters that [br]we may bring back to the land of Israel. 0:12:55.600,0:12:57.760 You could say... 0:12:57.880,0:13:01.920 that one of the problems [br]with Christian Zionism... 0:13:02.040,0:13:05.560 is that they see Jews[br]only instrumentally. 0:13:05.680,0:13:09.200 And I think there's [br]something anti-Semitic in that. 0:13:09.320,0:13:13.360 So it's not interest in Jews [br]as Jews see themselves... 0:13:13.480,0:13:17.840 but only in Jews [br]as they fit into the Christian story. 0:13:17.960,0:13:23.400 It's a problematic vision [br]as Jews are just seen as means to an end. 0:13:23.520,0:13:28.160 They are actually the small chess pieces. 0:13:28.280,0:13:33.520 They're the soldiers you sacrifice[br]on your way to a bigger vision. 0:13:33.640,0:13:40.120 With all those donations, CFI realizes [br]projects in what they call Judea and Samaria. 0:13:40.240,0:13:43.800 In other words, on Palestinian territory. 0:13:43.920,0:13:47.480 And this is in conflict with Dutch policy. 0:13:47.600,0:13:51.080 The Dutch government [br]supports a two-state solution... 0:13:51.200,0:13:55.040 viewing Israeli settlements[br]in occupied Palestinian territories... 0:13:55.160,0:13:59.800 as illegal and peace-threatening. 0:13:59.920,0:14:04.880 But in CFI's monthly newspaper, [br]another reality seems to be presented. 0:14:05.000,0:14:07.080 For there, we read this: 0:14:08.320,0:14:12.440 In December 2024, CFI contributed to [br]the construction of a retirement home... 0:14:12.560,0:14:14.760 for stationed Israeli soldiers. 0:14:14.880,0:14:18.600 In 2022, to a scouting club in East Talpiot... 0:14:18.720,0:14:22.120 and in that same year, the Israel [br]Products Center in the Netherlands... 0:14:22.240,0:14:26.480 donated their store profits [br]to a winemaker in Kiryat Arba... 0:14:26.600,0:14:28.720 a settlement near Hebron. 0:14:28.840,0:14:34.120 Jewish people brought to Israel by [br]the First Home in the Homeland program... 0:14:34.240,0:14:38.360 are also being settled [br]by CFI on the West Bank... 0:14:38.480,0:14:42.240 as we read in blogs [br]on the Christians for Israel website... 0:14:42.360,0:14:44.920 which is CFI's international branch. 0:14:45.040,0:14:48.440 Some CFI funds [br]bound for the West Bank... 0:14:48.560,0:14:54.200 go to the Christian Friends of Israeli [br]Communities we mentioned before. 0:14:54.320,0:14:57.520 And this brings us back to Jamal. 0:14:57.640,0:15:03.760 For, in 2023, CFOIC director Sondra Baras[br]thanks CFI Holland... 0:15:03.880,0:15:09.760 for a major contribution to the security [br]system of a new residential area in Revava. 0:15:09.880,0:15:14.160 The existence of Reviva and its expansion[br]has direct consequences... 0:15:14.280,0:15:20.360 for the Palestinians who own and cultivate [br]the adjoining land, including Jamal. 0:15:20.480,0:15:24.720 Part of his land next to[br]the illegal settlement of Revava's wall... 0:15:24.840,0:15:27.600 is too dangerous for him to enter. 0:15:27.720,0:15:31.840 Even reaching his own land [br]has been made impossible for him. 0:15:31.960,0:15:38.160 I used to go from this town to my field [br]straightforward in the car... 0:15:38.280,0:15:44.000 but when they built the settlement, it's [br]an obstacle between my town and my field. 0:15:44.120,0:15:47.000 It's in the middle, actually. 0:15:47.120,0:15:53.080 We have to go through it and now we're not[br]allowed to go through the settlement. 0:15:53.200,0:15:54.960 I can't get close to it. 0:15:55.080,0:16:00.480 Please go up.[br]It's not by distance 40 meters up. 0:16:00.600,0:16:05.480 What if you just keep two soldiers [br]to protect us here and just finish it? 0:16:05.600,0:16:10.400 What's the deal? Why?[br]It's no big issue. 0:16:11.640,0:16:14.680 We're peaceful people, [br]just here to pick olives... 0:16:14.800,0:16:17.200 and we have trouble [br]even using roads. 0:16:17.320,0:16:21.400 So now we have to make a big circle[br]all the way to the west... 0:16:21.520,0:16:24.360 taking bad roads, not active streets. 0:16:24.480,0:16:28.840 It's just roads they use for animals. 0:16:30.280,0:16:34.880 And it takes two hours for me [br]to get to my field. 0:16:35.000,0:16:39.840 If it was free like before [br]I could drive my car... 0:16:39.960,0:16:44.640 and just within a few minutes, [br]if I have that big field... 0:16:44.760,0:16:49.200 we could be making good money out of it [br]from that oil. 0:16:51.240,0:16:53.360 But now we lost that chance. 0:16:53.480,0:16:56.640 Those 800 trees that we've had... 0:16:56.760,0:17:00.480 they could make maybe [br]three, four tons of oil... 0:17:00.600,0:17:04.960 and that was ten, fifteen,[br]twenty thousand dollars. 0:17:07.120,0:17:11.240 Now we don't have that chance. [br]How can we live without money? 0:17:11.360,0:17:17.200 Attention. We read something else[br]in the Christians for Israel newspaper. 0:17:17.320,0:17:22.880 After October 7th, 2023, Christians for Israel [br]creates an emergency fund. 0:17:23.000,0:17:29.080 Part of the donations collected by CFI[br]through this fund goes to Or Ami... 0:17:29.200,0:17:35.400 a foundation set up by settler activist and [br]lawyer Nati Rom. Remember that name. 0:17:35.520,0:17:40.360 Nati Rom regularly visits the Netherlands[br]at the invitation of CFI... 0:17:40.480,0:17:45.760 and even set up a foundation here:[br]The Israel Heartland Foundation. 0:17:45.880,0:17:48.520 This is Nati Rom. Attention. 0:17:48.640,0:17:51.240 Shalom friends from Jabalia. 0:17:51.360,0:17:56.320 Shabbat shalom to our friends worldwide.[br]With God's help, we'll win. 0:17:57.360,0:18:01.840 We will do it together with the rabbi[br]over there. 0:18:01.960,0:18:04.920 We do whatever we can [br]to wreak redemption here in Jabalia. 0:18:05.080,0:18:10.560 As written in here: Shabbat shalom [br]from the heartland of Israel. 0:18:10.680,0:18:16.160 Rom supports demonstrators who[br]attacked aid convoys at the Gaza border... 0:18:16.280,0:18:22.040 and defends IDF soldiers standing trial for [br]systematic rape of Palestinian prisoners. 0:18:22.160,0:18:27.160 His third specialty is applying for [br]and defending weapon permits. 0:18:27.280,0:18:31.800 When not aiding settlers, [br]he serves as an Israeli army reservist. 0:18:31.920,0:18:35.080 Rom is seen in videos [br]with night vision drones... 0:18:35.200,0:18:38.480 a new watchtower for an army base[br]on the West Bank... 0:18:38.600,0:18:42.760 and a group of heavily armed men [br]he seems to be training. 0:18:42.880,0:18:48.800 For drones and watchtower purchases,[br]Dutch donors are thanked on the blog. 0:18:48.920,0:18:53.080 But where Rom got the weapons from, [br]is unclear. 0:18:53.200,0:18:56.280 Arjen Domburg, chairman [br]of the Israel Heartland Foundation... 0:18:56.400,0:18:58.440 and Nati Rom's right-hand man[br]in the Netherlands... 0:18:58.560,0:19:02.040 doesn't seem to know [br]where all donations go. 0:19:02.160,0:19:07.880 Days after the shooting men video, [br]Domburg writes this. 0:19:08.000,0:19:12.840 "Equipment has been bought [br]for the villages' security. 0:19:12.960,0:19:19.000 What, where and how isn't exactly clear, [br]but a lot of equipment has been bought." 0:19:19.120,0:19:25.280 Of course we had many questions, [br]but Rom won't answer Investico. 0:19:25.400,0:19:31.840 So, we decided together with our colleagues [br]from Investico to take a different approach. 0:19:31.960,0:19:37.160 We created the character Albert Dijkstra,[br]played by Allard from Investico. 0:19:37.280,0:19:41.640 Dijkstra, from Drachtsercompagnie,[br]has inherited money from his mother... 0:19:41.760,0:19:47.960 and wants to donate 15,000 to 20,000 euros[br]to Rom's Dutch foundation. 0:19:48.080,0:19:53.120 We tell this story to the Israel Heartland [br]Foundation chairman, Arjen Domburg. 0:19:53.240,0:19:56.240 As Rom's Dutch right-hand man... 0:19:56.360,0:20:02.320 ...he can tell us more about the [br]exact destination of the Dutch money. 0:20:02.440,0:20:07.000 And we might also learn more... 0:20:07.120,0:20:12.120 about Christians for Israel's [br]financial flows. 0:20:12.240,0:20:14.800 The conversation with Domburg [br]starts like this. 0:20:14.920,0:20:17.600 Good morning, this is Albert Dijkstra. 0:20:17.720,0:20:21.440 Good morning. [br]-Hi. Thanks for calling. 0:20:21.560,0:20:28.880 I can imagine it's difficult [br]for Mr. Rom over there and also for you... 0:20:29.000,0:20:35.080 to get funding for the "heavier" stuff. 0:20:35.200,0:20:36.720 So as far as I am concerned... 0:20:36.840,0:20:42.160 if it's about equipment or weapons... 0:20:42.280,0:20:46.240 ...I'm fine with all of it.[br]I'll help if needed. 0:20:47.200,0:20:52.520 No, we don't actually do[br]those kinds of things. 0:20:53.800,0:20:58.760 I mean, weapons aren't just sold [br]on the nearest street corner in Israel. 0:20:58.880,0:21:02.000 Another thing.[br]You mentioned those newsletters... 0:21:02.120,0:21:08.640 with a summary of what you've been doing [br]over the past few months, the past year. 0:21:08.760,0:21:10.920 Are they on your website? 0:21:12.160,0:21:15.320 No, because sometimes [br]the newsletters contain stuff... 0:21:15.440,0:21:18.800 we'd rather not publish. 0:21:18.920,0:21:22.120 Right, I see. 0:21:22.240,0:21:26.640 Domburg isn't showing all his cards yet,[br]but we also ask him: 0:21:26.760,0:21:31.840 "Our donation will be substantial. [br]Can we talk to Nati Rom himself?" 0:21:31.960,0:21:32.760 It works. 0:21:32.880,0:21:38.360 I think it's best if I contact Nati... 0:21:39.760,0:21:44.680 to discuss this matter. 0:21:44.800,0:21:50.160 And then I'll send you an email.[br]Is that a good idea? 0:21:50.280,0:21:52.960 Yes, that is a good idea. 0:21:53.080,0:21:58.920 This is where it gets interesting. [br]Domburg puts us in contact with Nati Rom. 0:21:59.040,0:22:05.360 Nati Rom is a key figure in a network [br]of controversial West Bank settlers. 0:22:05.480,0:22:10.880 His Or Ami foundation collaborates with [br]the Dutch Israel Heartland Foundation... 0:22:11.000,0:22:15.280 but also receives money from [br]Christians for Israel's emergency fund. 0:22:15.400,0:22:19.120 We agree to call him two days later. 0:22:25.520,0:22:29.640 Hi. Good afternoon. [br]-Good afternoon. 0:22:29.760,0:22:34.360 First, Rom tells us that he uses [br]food vouchers for sanctioned settlers... 0:22:34.480,0:22:36.520 for other purposes too. 0:22:36.640,0:22:40.080 Between you and me, [br]we don't know each other yet... 0:22:40.200,0:22:44.040 but this is the reason I use the food cards, [br]because it's not only food... 0:22:44.160,0:22:49.480 it's the card that they can use [br]in one hundred main stores in Israel. 0:22:49.600,0:22:54.840 They can also buy a tool, working tool.[br]There's a lot of options. 0:22:54.960,0:22:58.640 Okay, so they can use the card [br]how they want... 0:22:58.760,0:23:05.480 even if they have trouble with the[br]what's it called the sanctions or... 0:23:05.600,0:23:08.520 Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, yes. 0:23:08.640,0:23:16.320 If you work with any of the people that were [br]attacked by the EU or the US, I would... 0:23:16.440,0:23:24.400 I am. I represent them in court and also we [br]are supporting them in their places for sure. 0:23:24.520,0:23:29.320 Then it's on to our donation.[br]How would Rom like to receive that money? 0:23:29.440,0:23:33.640 Through the Israel Heartland Foundation[br]or is cash preferred? 0:23:33.760,0:23:36.960 Cash is always the best. [br]For example... 0:23:37.080,0:23:41.800 ...there's people [br]who are stuck with the sanction. 0:23:42.880,0:23:45.480 For them, cash is the best. 0:23:46.640,0:23:49.280 So we do for them the food card. 0:23:49.400,0:23:53.240 But also the foundation is okay.[br]Yes, we have our ways. 0:23:53.360,0:23:56.080 Okay, so cash is the best. 0:23:56.200,0:24:01.320 But what is Nati Rom actually going to do [br]with our cash? Here's the answer. 0:24:01.440,0:24:05.000 We can help people [br]get licenses for pistols. 0:24:05.120,0:24:08.920 We can also subsidize the price. 0:24:09.040,0:24:15.280 To subsidize for people who want to buy, [br]to subsidize the price, this can be. 0:24:15.400,0:24:22.040 How much will it cost to subsidize also [br]a pistol or a firearm? Does that, is that...? 0:24:22.160,0:24:23.280 It depends on us. 0:24:23.400,0:24:29.760 Let's say a firearm here will cost [br]something like 3000 or 4000. It depends. 0:24:29.880,0:24:33.760 And so it depends on us also [br]how much... 0:24:33.880,0:24:37.200 I think you don't need to[br]subsidize everything. 0:24:37.320,0:24:41.440 Just half or three quarters [br]or something like that. 0:24:41.560,0:24:43.120 Perfect. 0:24:43.240,0:24:49.560 And then if I send the money...[br]if I do it via Heartland here... 0:24:49.680,0:24:52.480 that will get to you...? 0:24:52.600,0:24:53.560 Yeah. [br]-Okay. 0:24:53.680,0:24:57.600 Arjen is an amazing person... 0:24:57.720,0:25:03.960 with giving not only his time,[br]but everything for this. It's amazing. 0:25:04.080,0:25:05.360 Yes. 0:25:05.480,0:25:07.960 Right. With the money we donate to him... 0:25:08.080,0:25:11.960 Nati Rom can finance weapons[br]for settlers. 0:25:12.080,0:25:15.600 And although Arjen Domburg [br]previously denied this... 0:25:15.720,0:25:21.440 Rom says this can be done through Israel [br]Heartland Foundation in the Netherlands. 0:25:21.560,0:25:25.360 Then Nati Rom suddenly starts talking [br]about Roger van Oordt... 0:25:25.480,0:25:28.880 the former director of Christians for Israel. 0:25:29.000,0:25:33.520 Roger van Oordt [br]is a very good friend of mine. 0:25:33.640,0:25:36.680 He came to my place like twenty times. 0:25:36.800,0:25:39.840 We're very connected, [br]I love him very much. 0:25:39.960,0:25:44.400 He's a great person, [br]but for years... 0:25:44.520,0:25:49.320 his organization rather give millions [br]to projects like... 0:25:49.440,0:25:55.360 building the windmill in Jerusalem[br]and flowers... 0:25:55.480,0:26:00.160 and they didn't want to be connected[br]because they were afraid. 0:26:00.280,0:26:06.360 And when he was helping me[br]it was in a small amount and secretly. 0:26:06.480,0:26:11.640 This is one of the things I'm saying. [br]From time to time he used to help us... 0:26:11.760,0:26:15.800 but secretly. [br]He has his way how to do it. 0:26:15.920,0:26:18.880 But for what I do, for what I want, [br]I don't do flowers. 0:26:19.000,0:26:22.920 Okay, Nati Rom doesn't do flowers. 0:26:23.040,0:26:26.480 And CFI found donating as a foundation[br]difficult... 0:26:26.600,0:26:31.480 but luckily the director of CFI himself[br]came by with cash. 0:26:31.600,0:26:33.920 But why is that such a smart idea? 0:26:34.040,0:26:38.280 If I could help you [br]do most of it off the books... 0:26:38.400,0:26:42.960 you can spend it more easily [br]on subsidising pistols and stuff... 0:26:43.080,0:26:46.040 because otherwise [br]that would be difficult, or what? 0:26:46.160,0:26:50.200 It's always easier in the other way. 0:26:50.320,0:26:53.000 Yeah, okay. [br]-God bless you. Thank you so much. 0:26:53.120,0:26:55.520 Good luck, please stay safe, okay? 0:26:58.480,0:27:02.280 Oh, my God.[br]Funding pistols is possible. 0:27:02.400,0:27:04.600 How about [br]calling Arjen Domburg now? 0:27:04.720,0:27:10.920 So in summary, Nati Rom wants to take our [br]money and can buy weapons with it too. 0:27:11.040,0:27:15.400 He prefers to get money off the books, [br]like Roger van Oordt did it... 0:27:15.520,0:27:18.680 but the Heartland Foundation works as well. 0:27:18.800,0:27:23.280 We decide to call chairman Arjen Domburg[br]again with this good news. 0:27:23.400,0:27:27.440 Is he still on board [br]with this info in his pocket? 0:27:28.320,0:27:30.000 Arjen Domburg speaking. 0:27:30.120,0:27:32.560 Hi, good afternoon.[br]-Good afternoon. 0:27:32.680,0:27:37.800 Hi. I just called Nati.[br]-Oh, nice. 0:27:37.920,0:27:43.200 It was really a great conversation. 0:27:43.320,0:27:46.760 I'm really impressed. 0:27:46.880,0:27:52.080 Nati and I decided together[br]it would be best... 0:27:52.200,0:27:59.960 ...if the money could be spent on cameras[br]for those families or communities. 0:28:01.040,0:28:04.520 He also talked about [br]firearm and quad subsidies. 0:28:04.640,0:28:11.880 Nati said the easiest way is to just transfer it[br]to the Heartland Foundation. 0:28:12.000,0:28:14.760 We could do it early next week. 0:28:14.880,0:28:21.320 So you can forward it right away and [br]ensure it goes to those three things? 0:28:21.440,0:28:25.240 I'll send the whole amount all at once. 0:28:25.360,0:28:31.640 I'll forward it to Nati's foundation.[br]Then he can access it directly. 0:28:31.760,0:28:38.800 If you transfer this sum, my advice[br]would be to use a neutral description. 0:28:38.920,0:28:45.880 Like "support for Judea and Samaria" [br]or something. 0:28:46.000,0:28:48.280 I wouldn't mention that.[br]-No? 0:28:48.400,0:28:50.440 No, that's not neutral. 0:28:51.840,0:28:58.280 I would just say "support Nati Rom"[br]or "N. Rom" or "support..." 0:28:58.400,0:29:03.080 Or maybe just in Dutch, [br]to let sleeping dogs lie. 0:29:03.200,0:29:10.040 Last time you mentioned 15,000 to 20,000 [br]euros. I wouldn't take that out in cash... 0:29:10.160,0:29:11.920 and get on a plane. 0:29:12.040,0:29:16.240 Right. What kind of expenses [br]are best in cash? 0:29:16.360,0:29:22.000 The kind of things we just talked about. 0:29:22.120,0:29:26.920 Those are the...[br]How can I put it? 0:29:27.040,0:29:31.720 The more difficult cases [br]where no one wants to leave any traces. 0:29:31.840,0:29:34.480 The roads, the weapons,[br]that kind of thing. 0:29:34.600,0:29:36.320 I think so. 0:29:36.440,0:29:42.360 Christians of Israel, [br]with the Van Oord family... 0:29:42.480,0:29:47.080 they have much more cash available[br]because of their collection money. 0:29:48.320,0:29:51.000 Yes, I see. 0:29:52.040,0:29:56.040 Like Nati... I remember a few years ago. 0:29:57.800,0:30:02.840 I think was the first time I met him.[br]He gave three talks for Christians from Israel. 0:30:02.960,0:30:08.320 There were three collections,[br]and in one church, 500 people attended. 0:30:08.440,0:30:11.760 Then the cash adds up quickly. 0:30:11.880,0:30:15.680 And then you get to take the stationery. 0:30:15.800,0:30:19.800 You know we're [br]a Public Benefit Organization? 0:30:19.920,0:30:22.960 So tax-wise that's also interesting. 0:30:23.080,0:30:26.360 So what can we conclude from this? 0:30:26.480,0:30:31.120 1: Nati Rom can help settlers [br]in illegal settlements to get weapons... 0:30:31.240,0:30:36.600 and ensure they're untraceable.[br]This can be done with Dutch money. 0:30:36.720,0:30:39.040 2: Donations from the Heartland Foundation... 0:30:39.160,0:30:43.800 are sometimes brought to Israel in cash[br]for "difficult" purchases. 0:30:43.920,0:30:48.960 3: Roger van Oordt, a member [br]of the CFI family for 45 years... 0:30:49.080,0:30:51.320 is good friends with Nati Rom... 0:30:51.440,0:30:57.040 and has occasionally made secret and [br]off-the-books donations when visiting Rom. 0:30:57.160,0:31:02.880 4: CFI held multiple collections at gatherings[br]where Nati Rom spoke in the Netherlands... 0:31:03.000,0:31:05.840 and gave him the cash. 0:31:05.960,0:31:10.600 5: With the food cards [br]for which Nati Rom collected money... 0:31:10.720,0:31:16.960 sanctioned settlers could not only buy food[br]but also purchase other items. 0:31:17.080,0:31:22.960 In this way, EU sanctions on those settlers [br]could be bypassed. 0:31:23.080,0:31:28.640 Ivo Amar, a sanction law specialist, [br]says this: 0:31:28.760,0:31:33.000 Economic resources means[br]essentially everything that has value. 0:31:33.120,0:31:39.280 It can be a food voucher or a gift card, [br]even a car. 0:31:39.400,0:31:45.880 Basically anything movable, immovable,[br]even intangible... 0:31:46.000,0:31:50.760 that represents any value, [br]so even a service... 0:31:50.880,0:31:56.080 ...may not be provided [br]to such a settler. 0:31:57.800,0:32:01.440 That would be a criminal offense. 0:32:01.560,0:32:03.400 I'm also a Christian... 0:32:03.520,0:32:10.240 so let's say it's a Christian value [br]to treat others as you wish to be treated. 0:32:10.360,0:32:16.840 I think it's harsh that Palestinians [br]are totally absent from this story. 0:32:16.960,0:32:22.280 While all our eyes are set on Gaza [br]for obvious reasons... 0:32:22.400,0:32:25.920 on the other hand, it allows[br]the settlers in the West Bank... 0:32:26.040,0:32:28.400 what they call Judea and Samaria... 0:32:28.520,0:32:34.040 to do what is practically an ethnic cleansing [br]that no one is paying attention to. 0:32:34.160,0:32:38.360 So the idea is that God [br]promised the land to the Jews... 0:32:38.480,0:32:41.560 and the Palestinians, [br]as original inhabitants... 0:32:41.680,0:32:47.480 have to go and live in another[br]Arab country. 0:32:47.600,0:32:53.040 It shows that Christian Zionism [br]is always connected with colonialism. 0:32:53.160,0:32:58.680 They're building up more houses, [br]and somebody is helping them, I guess... 0:32:58.800,0:33:01.600 sending them money to expand. 0:33:01.720,0:33:06.600 I wish these settlements [br]will be dismantled and leave. 0:33:07.800,0:33:11.960 Because as long as they are there,[br]they will keep bothering us... 0:33:12.080,0:33:14.520 and they will keep expanding. 0:33:14.640,0:33:20.680 They should stop, because we are [br]humans too. We are natives here. 0:33:20.800,0:33:26.520 You are encouraging this town,[br]this settlement, to expand... 0:33:26.640,0:33:33.600 and take our land. It's our land [br]for thousands of years, that field. 0:33:36.280,0:33:39.960 <i>Dutch Faces Behind Settlement</i>[br]"This is Settlers' Language." 0:33:50.520,0:33:53.480 We're headed to Christians for Israel,[br]in this building, 0:33:53.600,0:33:56.280 Obviously, we have some questions. 0:33:56.400,0:33:59.840 Before we get there, [br]we first want to show you... 0:33:59.960,0:34:05.360 who's behind Christians for Israel [br]and the route to this discussion. 0:34:05.480,0:34:09.360 Christians for Israel [br]is run by the Van Oordt family. 0:34:09.480,0:34:12.600 Frank van Oordt, [br]son of founder Karel van Oordt... 0:34:12.720,0:34:15.640 has led the foundation since 2020. 0:34:15.760,0:34:20.600 Frank succeeded his brother Roger [br]van Oordt, whom you heard of earlier. 0:34:20.720,0:34:24.480 Roger led Christians for Israel [br]for nearly 30 years. 0:34:24.600,0:34:26.200 He now has a new position... 0:34:26.320,0:34:30.600 as honorary consul of the State of Israel [br]in the Netherlands. 0:34:30.720,0:34:33.680 This means he assists Dutch [br]nationals abroad... 0:34:33.800,0:34:37.000 and looks after Dutch trade interests [br]in Israel. 0:34:37.120,0:34:42.680 According to Nati Rom, Roger allegedly [br]smuggled cash to the West Bank. 0:34:42.800,0:34:48.160 Then there's Sara van Oordt, [br]married to the founder's grandson. 0:34:48.280,0:34:55.200 She's CFI's head of media and [br]communication and hosts their talk show. 0:34:55.320,0:35:01.440 It's 2025 and Israel has been at war [br]for 458 days now. 0:35:01.560,0:35:06.440 In the 2023 elections, she was a candidate [br]for the Christian Union Party. 0:35:06.560,0:35:13.840 We first call Frank, the foundation's [br]director, to discuss our findings. 0:35:13.960,0:35:18.800 You're saying quite something there. 0:35:18.920,0:35:23.920 But what you're saying isn't true at all. [br]-What isn't true? 0:35:24.040,0:35:29.640 You're saying we finance[br]illegal settlements. 0:35:32.040,0:35:36.080 You're saying we finance those.[br]That's not true at all. 0:35:36.200,0:35:41.080 I think you should call [br]our spokesperson. 0:35:41.200,0:35:44.880 So who should I call? [br]-Sara van Oort. 0:35:45.000,0:35:48.560 Frank directs us to Sara and we call her. 0:35:48.680,0:35:53.840 She needs some time but calls back later.[br]She wants to come and talk. 0:35:53.960,0:35:58.240 Okay, great. Let's arrange that.[br]Tuesday at 10 o'clock. 0:36:00.440,0:36:02.760 Hi. Hello.[br]-Welcome. 0:36:02.880,0:36:06.440 Tim. Nice to meet you.[br]-Sara. 0:36:06.560,0:36:08.880 Welcome to the center.[br]-Thank you. 0:36:09.000,0:36:12.920 Can we put the camera on the shoulder?[br]-Sure. 0:36:13.040,0:36:16.960 We'd like to discuss some things you fund. 0:36:17.080,0:36:23.240 Starting with Revava. In 2022, you supported [br]the construction of a new neighborhood. 0:36:23.360,0:36:25.520 How much did you contribute? 0:36:25.640,0:36:28.240 We sponsored twelve houses there. 0:36:28.360,0:36:34.040 Temporary homes that are also movable.[br]They were 25,000 euros each. 0:36:34.160,0:36:38.040 Why did you choose to donate [br]specifically to this project? 0:36:38.160,0:36:41.160 We've supported many projects for years. 0:36:41.280,0:36:44.840 It was a project [br]at the start of the Ukraine crisis... 0:36:44.960,0:36:50.520 when Ukrainian refugees flooded[br]into the Netherlands as well as Israel. 0:36:50.640,0:36:54.720 In Israel, they were housed in places [br]including Revava. 0:36:54.840,0:36:59.120 And why was the choice made to locate it [br]in that neighborhood? 0:36:59.240,0:37:05.000 The municipality chose that. It's within[br]municipal boundaries, so they decide. 0:37:05.120,0:37:08.160 They had space for twelve little houses. 0:37:08.280,0:37:12.480 So it's not a whole neighborhood, [br]just twelve temporary homes. 0:37:12.600,0:37:15.480 They were built under Israeli law... 0:37:15.600,0:37:19.320 partly on land from a Palestinian [br]from the nearby village of Deir Istiya... 0:37:19.440,0:37:24.120 and partly on land managed by Israel [br]without permission given. 0:37:24.240,0:37:30.280 Nearby buildings are under demolition order [br]by the Israeli government. 0:37:30.400,0:37:33.240 Specifically for this neigborhood?[br]-Yes. 0:37:33.360,0:37:36.400 You didn't know this?[br]-I wasn't aware of it. 0:37:36.520,0:37:39.480 Is that checked [br]before you finance a neighborhood? 0:37:39.600,0:37:45.000 We always consult the local municipality [br]for suitable locations. 0:37:45.120,0:37:51.640 And they said, "This area is in Zone C [br]under the Oslo Accords." 0:37:51.760,0:37:57.160 It's under Israeli administration,[br]and they chose this area. 0:37:57.280,0:38:01.640 Israeli administration doesn't mean [br]it's Israeli land. You know that. 0:38:01.760,0:38:03.760 That's disputed. 0:38:03.880,0:38:07.960 You're the ones disputing it.[br]Legally, it's true. 0:38:08.080,0:38:12.320 Can you repeat the question?[br]-It wasn't a question. I provided information. 0:38:12.440,0:38:14.920 You say it's disputed, [br]but you're disputing it. 0:38:15.040,0:38:19.800 It's under Israeli military law, [br]but Israel can't just take the land. 0:38:19.920,0:38:25.520 That's not entirely true.[br]The Oslo Accords were signed in the 1990s. 0:38:25.640,0:38:31.600 Zones A, B, and C were agreed upon.[br]C is under Israeli administration. 0:38:31.720,0:38:33.320 Military administration? 0:38:33.440,0:38:37.480 Yes, but also civilian administration, [br]because Israelis live there. 0:38:37.600,0:38:39.400 A is under Palestinian control. 0:38:39.520,0:38:44.560 B is under shared control. [br]There, military law applies, but not in C. 0:38:44.680,0:38:49.680 The idea about the C area is that [br]it's controlled fully by Israel... 0:38:49.800,0:38:54.680 in terms of its police and military... 0:38:54.800,0:39:01.520 not in terms of the way [br]you run the land there. 0:39:01.640,0:39:07.880 The Israeli parliament never passed a law [br]saying area C is Israeli territory. 0:39:08.000,0:39:11.560 So that's part of what's going on here. 0:39:11.680,0:39:14.880 As we've seen now... 0:39:15.000,0:39:23.240 contributing to the expansion of Israeli [br]settlements is a violation of international law. 0:39:23.360,0:39:26.560 According to the Oslo Accords,[br]Israel has the right... 0:39:26.680,0:39:30.520 They're a basis for a final agreement. 0:39:30.640,0:39:32.680 Which hasn't been reached.[br]-Unfortunately, not yet. 0:39:32.800,0:39:36.480 Which means that the West Bank...[br]-Is disputed. 0:39:36.600,0:39:39.040 Can be governed by the Israelis... 0:39:39.160,0:39:42.000 but it doesn't mean Palestinian land[br]must be given up. 0:39:42.120,0:39:45.920 Conflicts happen and[br]they also go to court. 0:39:46.040,0:39:52.440 If it turns out that the land is [br]in fact owned by Palestinians... 0:39:52.560,0:39:57.120 the court will rule that [br]those settlements must be cleared. 0:39:57.240,0:40:00.160 It has happened before.[br]It will happen again. 0:40:00.280,0:40:07.480 I've checked whether there is [br]a claim on Revava. 0:40:07.600,0:40:10.600 There is, but it has never been [br]to court. 0:40:10.720,0:40:16.240 There are many conflicts in the West Bank[br]in the C area where Israel is in control... 0:40:16.360,0:40:18.800 where Palestinians say the land is ours. 0:40:18.920,0:40:23.720 So they go to court, and yes,[br]lawsuits do drag on. 0:40:23.840,0:40:29.160 Sometimes the ruling is in favor of Israel,[br]sometimes of Palestinians. 0:40:29.280,0:40:34.840 Just to be clear, the homes in question [br]in Revava are illegal under Israeli law. 0:40:34.960,0:40:36.240 This is documented... 0:40:36.360,0:40:42.360 and these buildings received a demolition[br]order from the Israeli authorities in 2022. 0:40:46.920,0:40:48.360 That's the issue here. 0:40:48.480,0:40:52.280 You still believe it's morally justified [br]to support this. 0:40:52.400,0:40:54.560 It's under Israeli administration. 0:40:54.680,0:41:01.840 Israel is a democratic state of law [br]and land conflicts are decided in court. 0:41:01.960,0:41:08.320 And if the land is not Israel's but belongs [br]to Palestinians, we'll relocate those homes. 0:41:08.440,0:41:12.040 Is that a deal?[br]-We simply adhere to the law. 0:41:12.160,0:41:18.680 Revava's existence and expansion directly [br]impacts Palestinians with land next to it. 0:41:18.800,0:41:23.080 One is Jamal Faris, a Palestinian [br]olive farmer from Deir Istiya. 0:41:23.200,0:41:28.840 His land borders directly on the wall [br]of the illegal settlement of Revava. 0:41:28.960,0:41:34.360 It's too dangerous for him to access.[br]He can hardly reach his own land. 0:41:34.480,0:41:37.960 We have an audio clip. 0:41:38.080,0:41:43.840 He went there once and they tied him up [br]and destroyed about 400 trees... 0:41:43.960,0:41:45.320 while he was watching. 0:41:45.440,0:41:50.000 So now we don't have too much left, [br]but we still have problems getting there... 0:41:50.120,0:41:53.320 to harvest our trees. 0:41:53.440,0:41:58.240 I can't go by myself [br]because I might get beaten or shot. 0:41:58.360,0:42:01.280 That's the situation for him [br]and other Palestinians in the area. 0:42:01.400,0:42:03.240 Does this affect you? [br]-It affects me a lot. 0:42:03.360,0:42:08.040 Will it impact funds to Revava [br]from Christians for Israel? 0:42:08.160,0:42:11.640 It affects me greatly, the suffering.[br]I want to emphasize that. 0:42:11.760,0:42:18.680 If it turns out our sponsored houses [br]shouldn't be there... 0:42:18.800,0:42:23.320 we'll relocate them, [br]but we'll investigate this thoroughly. 0:42:23.440,0:42:29.480 We owe responsibility to our donors. I must[br]explain our financial spending to them. 0:42:29.600,0:42:32.920 So you promise [br]to thoroughly investigate this? 0:42:33.040,0:42:39.000 And if according to international law[br]it's wrong to displace these Palestinians... 0:42:39.120,0:42:41.720 your foundation will pull out?[br]-Of course. 0:42:41.840,0:42:45.080 Let's talk about Nati Rom.[br]-I know him. 0:42:45.200,0:42:49.840 Nati Rom gave three talks in the Netherlands [br]in June 2022. 0:42:49.960,0:42:55.120 Collections were made [br]when Nati Rom spoke here... 0:42:55.240,0:43:00.080 at your invitation.[br]You gave him the cash money. 0:43:00.200,0:43:05.360 Why did that money go to Nati Rom? [br]-I don't recall. When was this? 0:43:05.480,0:43:08.560 2022. [br]-I don't remember exactly. 0:43:08.680,0:43:14.040 I'd have to check. But we did sponsor him[br]immediately after October 7th. 0:43:14.160,0:43:17.800 So money went to Or Ami [br]from your emergency fund? 0:43:17.920,0:43:20.320 But in 2022, we didn't yet[br]have an emergency fund. 0:43:20.440,0:43:25.360 That was in 2023, but in 2022 [br]you gave the collection money to Rom. 0:43:25.480,0:43:28.360 It's all recorded. We don't just [br]hand over an envelope. 0:43:28.480,0:43:31.680 Nothing off the books?[br]-Of course not. 0:43:31.800,0:43:38.080 Let's start with that cash money in '22 that [br]went to Nati Rom. Want was that meant for? 0:43:38.200,0:43:40.000 I'd have to check. 0:43:40.120,0:43:45.600 Why donate to Or Ami, to his foundation, [br]from the emergency fund? 0:43:45.720,0:43:50.120 We donate to many organizations. [br]-Yes. 0:43:50.240,0:43:55.400 We list about 20 on our website, I think.[br]-What are the conditions? 0:43:55.520,0:43:58.760 Conditions for...?[br]-For receiving money from you. 0:43:58.880,0:44:00.840 The conditions are... 0:44:00.960,0:44:06.000 After October 7th, the Hamas massacre, [br]we saw Israel in need. 0:44:06.120,0:44:10.560 We set up an emergency fund [br]to support people with food parcels... 0:44:10.680,0:44:13.480 emergency kits and also security. 0:44:13.600,0:44:21.440 We sponsored a number of shelters [br]for people seeking refuge in bunkers. 0:44:21.560,0:44:25.080 The condition is [br]that it must fit our policy. 0:44:25.200,0:44:27.800 We want to give humanitarian aid... 0:44:27.920,0:44:33.760 and support people, both Jews and [br]Palestinians, with food aid, for instance. 0:44:33.880,0:44:39.480 Are there limits you won't cross?[br]Things your foundation shouldn't do? 0:44:39.600,0:44:42.320 There are many things [br]a foundation shouldn't do. 0:44:42.440,0:44:45.280 We're against violence,[br]so we don't support violence. 0:44:45.400,0:44:51.160 Would you indirectly fund weapons?[br]-Neither directly nor indirectly. No way. 0:44:51.280,0:44:53.320 Then I'd like to play you something. 0:44:53.440,0:44:58.000 We can help people [br]get licenses for pistols. 0:44:58.120,0:45:02.600 We can also subsidize the price. 0:45:02.720,0:45:08.280 To subsidize for people who want to buy, [br]to subsidize the price, this can be. 0:45:08.400,0:45:15.000 How much would it cost to subsidize [br]also a pistol or a firearm? 0:45:15.120,0:45:16.400 It depends on us. 0:45:16.520,0:45:22.560 Let's say a firearm here will cost [br]something like 3000 or 4000. It depends. 0:45:22.680,0:45:24.840 Do you get what's being said? 0:45:24.960,0:45:28.840 That you could subsidize a weapon [br]or something, right? 0:45:28.960,0:45:33.080 With donated money.[br]-But not from Christians for Israel. 0:45:33.200,0:45:36.400 That is the question. [br]-That is the answer. 0:45:36.520,0:45:38.200 Are you sure? 0:45:38.320,0:45:40.240 I'm 100% sure. [br]-How do you know? 0:45:40.360,0:45:46.640 It goes against our policy.[br]Donations are earmarked for specific goals. 0:45:46.760,0:45:51.120 We're a serious [br]Public Benefit Organisation. 0:45:51.240,0:45:54.600 We adhere to rules, that's our policy. 0:45:54.720,0:45:57.840 What would we gain by doing this? 0:45:57.960,0:45:59.800 Let's put this in moral terms. 0:45:59.920,0:46:03.720 Would you continue work with Nati Rom [br]and his foundation... 0:46:03.840,0:46:09.480 knowing he also finances weapons [br]with donations? 0:46:09.600,0:46:11.240 That's a hard question.[br]-Why? 0:46:11.360,0:46:18.080 You're confronting me with this now.[br]I asked to get your questions up front. 0:46:18.200,0:46:20.400 I didn't get them,[br]so we couldn't confer. 0:46:20.520,0:46:25.840 Christians for Israel doesn't support [br]weapons. I want to emphasize this again. 0:46:25.960,0:46:30.360 You just hope. [br]-I'm sure of it. It's not hope. 0:46:30.480,0:46:34.360 Our books are in order.[br]We know what we're donating to. 0:46:34.480,0:46:36.800 So let's look at the books. [br]-Yes. 0:46:36.920,0:46:42.520 We had another talk with Nati Rom and [br]Arjen Domburg. You know him, I think. 0:46:42.640,0:46:48.480 I know his name, not the person. [br]-From the Heartland Foundation. 0:46:48.600,0:46:54.440 This was a conversation about [br]Roger van Oordt, well-known to you. 0:46:54.560,0:46:58.800 Roger van Oordt [br]is a very good friend of mine. 0:46:58.920,0:47:01.720 He came to my place like twenty times. 0:47:01.840,0:47:03.640 You know this, right? [br]-I do. 0:47:03.760,0:47:09.440 He brings groups to us [br]to be inspired, you know. 0:47:10.800,0:47:12.680 And he for years and years... 0:47:12.800,0:47:16.320 We're very connected and I love him[br]personally very much. 0:47:16.440,0:47:21.000 He's a great person,[br]but for years... 0:47:21.120,0:47:26.320 his organization rather gives millions [br]to projects like... 0:47:26.440,0:47:32.200 building the windmill in Jerusalem[br]and flowers... 0:47:32.320,0:47:36.960 and they didn't want to be connected [br]because they were afraid. 0:47:37.080,0:47:43.320 And when he was helping me,[br]it was in a small amount and secretly. 0:47:43.440,0:47:45.760 So from time to time[br]he used to help us... 0:47:45.880,0:47:50.520 but secretly. [br]He has his way how to do it. 0:47:50.640,0:47:53.960 But for what I do, for what I want, [br]I don't do flowers. 0:47:54.080,0:47:57.960 Nati Rom is talking about off-the-books[br]money which Roger van Oordt... 0:47:58.080,0:48:00.960 Secretly, he said.[br]I don't recognize that. 0:48:01.080,0:48:04.240 He talked about off-the-books money... 0:48:04.360,0:48:09.920 and said that Roger van Oort provided him[br]with cash, and possibly implies there... 0:48:10.040,0:48:12.760 as you heard,[br]"I don't do flowers"... 0:48:12.880,0:48:18.280 implying off-the-books actions[br]like possibly financing weapons. 0:48:18.400,0:48:22.520 I stick to my story. We don't finance [br]weapons on the books... 0:48:22.640,0:48:25.920 and we don't do anything off the books.[br]-Nati Rom says you do. 0:48:26.040,0:48:29.800 Those are his words.[br]We don't do things off the books. 0:48:29.920,0:48:35.240 I can't check it...[br]-You'll have to take my word for it. 0:48:35.360,0:48:39.920 Will you ask Roger van Oordt? [br]-No, I'll look into this, of course. 0:48:40.040,0:48:41.360 Are you shocked? 0:48:41.480,0:48:47.360 We're being presented with things [br]I'm not aware of. 0:48:47.480,0:48:52.120 As Christians for Israel, [br]we're accountable for our donations. 0:48:52.240,0:48:58.360 I stand by that, having insight [br]into the projects we support. 0:48:58.480,0:49:00.760 We do not support violence. Period. 0:49:00.880,0:49:07.320 You also funded 2,000 food vouchers [br]in 2023. 0:49:08.800,0:49:12.160 Let's discuss food vouchers.[br]We'll go back to Nati Rom. 0:49:12.280,0:49:15.360 Between you and me, [br]we don't know each other yet... 0:49:15.480,0:49:19.400 but this is the reason I use the food cards,[br]because it's not only food... 0:49:19.520,0:49:24.920 it's a card that they can use [br]in one hundred main stores in Israel. 0:49:25.040,0:49:29.200 They can also buy a tool, working tool. 0:49:29.320,0:49:32.920 One project that might be interesting[br]for you... 0:49:33.040,0:49:37.600 is buying a small car, an ATV,[br]I can show you a picture. 0:49:37.720,0:49:42.720 It's for guarding at night[br]and in the day they're working with it. 0:49:42.840,0:49:46.040 There's a lot of options.[br]-Okay. So the card is... 0:49:46.160,0:49:50.560 They can use it how they want, [br]even if they have trouble with the... 0:49:50.680,0:49:54.840 what's it called, the sanctions or... 0:49:54.960,0:49:58.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.[br]Exactly, yes. 0:49:58.120,0:50:01.720 What Nati Rom tells us [br]is that the food vouchers here... 0:50:01.840,0:50:09.480 can help bypass sanctions against settlers[br]sanctioned by bodies like the EU. 0:50:09.600,0:50:11.800 This isn't about gifts [br]from Christians for Israel. 0:50:11.920,0:50:14.040 No, but my question is: 0:50:14.160,0:50:18.240 When you hear this,[br]Nati Rom funding weapons... 0:50:18.360,0:50:24.000 accepting cash from Roger van Oordt[br]and wanting to bypass sanctions... 0:50:24.120,0:50:27.600 our expert says this was about[br]bypassing sanctions... 0:50:27.720,0:50:30.880 is this enough to stop working[br]with the foundation? 0:50:31.000,0:50:35.480 We're against any form of violence.[br]-Yes, you said that. 0:50:35.600,0:50:39.160 And we will talk to Nati Rom.[br]We know... 0:50:39.280,0:50:42.800 You'll talk to Nati Rom, but...[br]-Definitely. 0:50:42.920,0:50:46.600 We've cooperated with him [br]for many years. 0:50:46.720,0:50:53.240 If it turns out that donations from[br]Christians for Israel are misused by him... 0:50:53.360,0:50:57.800 we'll ask questions and we'll stop [br]if he continues to do so. 0:50:57.920,0:51:03.000 Why do you call this area Judea and Samaria [br]instead of the West Bank? 0:51:03.120,0:51:06.960 It's the name used in Israel [br]for the area. 0:51:07.080,0:51:11.600 Yes, but it's the West Bank.[br]-It's just a name, right? 0:51:11.720,0:51:16.520 It's like North and South Holland [br]together making up Holland. 0:51:16.640,0:51:20.280 That's what it's called.[br]In Israel, it's Judea and Samaria. 0:51:20.400,0:51:24.960 A biblical term.[br]-Biblical, but used in Israel. 0:51:25.080,0:51:31.040 This is the way the religious settlers [br]refer to the land in its biblical terms. 0:51:31.160,0:51:35.320 It's not the way [br]the great majority of Israelis... 0:51:35.440,0:51:39.320 nor the legal system, [br]nor the documents refer to it. 0:51:39.440,0:51:43.480 The Israelis up to recently [br]would call it "Hagda Ma'aravi"... 0:51:43.600,0:51:45.520 which is literally the West Bank. 0:51:45.640,0:51:49.240 You contribute directly to [br]Nati Rom's foundation... 0:51:49.360,0:51:55.440 which is clearly committed to maintaining [br]and expanding settlements. 0:51:55.560,0:52:00.680 You have contributed directly to[br]the expansion of the settlement in Revava. 0:52:00.800,0:52:07.360 And you work with Sondra Baras' [br]Christian Friends of Israeli Communities. 0:52:07.480,0:52:13.480 She has said, I believe on British tv,[br]after Trump came to power... 0:52:13.600,0:52:20.960 that Palestinians should accept the fact[br]that they will never have sovereignty. 0:52:21.080,0:52:24.320 In a draconian regime, [br]the first thing you're saying is... 0:52:24.440,0:52:27.360 teaching people [br]how to speak a new language. 0:52:27.480,0:52:30.920 So this is...[br]-This is settler lingo. 0:52:31.040,0:52:32.480 This is settler language... 0:52:32.600,0:52:39.680 as if ignoring the United Nations and [br]all the resolutions that passed since 1967. 0:52:39.800,0:52:45.160 In that sense you say,[br]"we'll accept whatever happens." 0:52:45.280,0:52:50.480 But in the meantime, [br]you commit financially and materially... 0:52:50.600,0:52:57.240 to organizations whose goal is to make[br]the West Bank as Jewish as possible. 0:52:57.360,0:53:02.800 I'm not concerned with the opinions [br]of those you mentioned. 0:53:02.920,0:53:08.120 But you do support them financially.[br]-We also back those against Netanyahu. 0:53:08.240,0:53:13.040 We know what we're supporting.[br]Donations go to specific projects. 0:53:13.160,0:53:17.480 It's about supporting an ideology...[br]-We don't support any ideology. 0:53:17.600,0:53:22.120 This is strange. If I tie Allard's laces [br]and then slap you... 0:53:22.240,0:53:25.880 I can't say, "I slapped you, [br]but I also tied his laces, so it's okay." 0:53:26.000,0:53:32.880 You're supporting foundations that contribute [br]to the colonisation of territories. 0:53:33.000,0:53:37.480 We just support people.[br]-You're not just supporting people. 0:53:37.600,0:53:40.400 Yes, we do.[br]We're discussing opinions. 0:53:40.520,0:53:43.240 You have your opinion[br]about the territory's future. 0:53:43.360,0:53:47.280 That's irrelevant, as I don't oversee [br]a donating foundation. 0:53:47.400,0:53:52.520 You donate a lot of Dutch money.[br]-It's not that much for those territories. 0:53:52.640,0:53:59.240 Such extreme remarks aren't a problem?[br]-You say extreme, but she may have a point. 0:53:59.360,0:54:03.960 Currently it might be better [br]if Israel controls the area... 0:54:04.080,0:54:09.080 rather than having a Palestinian authority [br]or even Hamas in control. 0:54:09.200,0:54:12.280 Purely in pragmatic terms. 0:54:12.400,0:54:20.160 Just now, the Palestinian population suffers[br]from a poorly organized leadership... 0:54:20.280,0:54:26.240 so maybe it's more of a pragmatic approach [br]than an ideological approach. 0:54:26.360,0:54:30.800 I must go against this, [br]for there's much more going on than... 0:54:30.920,0:54:34.760 It complicates when Palestinians[br]want their land... 0:54:34.880,0:54:40.960 but when it's about Palestinian leadership, [br]it's straightforward. 0:54:41.080,0:54:46.200 You know that's very complex too.[br]-Extremely complex. 0:54:46.320,0:54:53.520 What would it take for Christians for Israel[br]to stop supporting or donating? 0:54:53.640,0:54:55.800 When would we pull out? 0:54:55.920,0:54:58.160 When violence is used. 0:54:59.000,0:55:00.840 Can you define that? 0:55:00.960,0:55:04.440 Well, violence. Weapons maybe? 0:55:04.560,0:55:09.640 We don't do that. It's against our policy.[br]We want no part in that. 0:55:09.760,0:55:12.080 Stealing land?[br]-Nor in that. 0:55:12.200,0:55:13.840 Colonising?[br]-We abide by the law. 0:55:13.960,0:55:16.240 What can we agree upon[br]after this conversation? 0:55:16.360,0:55:20.720 You'll look into Revava. [br]We've just told you the story. 0:55:20.840,0:55:25.400 If it's illegal and hampers people[br]like Jamal... 0:55:25.520,0:55:28.400 ...you'll end your support,[br]the homes must go. 0:55:28.520,0:55:30.760 They'll have to be moved.[br]-Where? 0:55:30.880,0:55:32.920 I don't know yet. 0:55:33.040,0:55:35.360 Then there's Nati Rom. 0:55:35.480,0:55:38.120 You'll wash our hands of him. 0:55:38.240,0:55:40.840 Look, we'll talk with Nati Rom. 0:55:40.960,0:55:47.920 You've confronted me today with [br]a telephone conversation I was unaware of. 0:55:48.040,0:55:52.880 We'll talk to Nati Rom and [br]see what the consequences will be. 0:55:53.000,0:55:58.120 So spreading an ideology would not be[br]enough for you to pull out? 0:55:58.240,0:56:02.280 This is about politics, not ideology.[br]That's okay. 0:56:02.400,0:56:06.960 This is a free country, and so is Israel.[br]Different opinions are allowed. 0:56:07.080,0:56:09.640 Everything you do [br]has been allowed so far. 0:56:09.760,0:56:13.800 How does the foundation see it?[br]You speak for it, right? 0:56:13.920,0:56:18.840 We don't support people [br]based on their political views. 0:56:18.960,0:56:21.840 We just support all people. 0:56:25.400,0:56:29.640 But that's not what you guys do, right? 0:56:29.760,0:56:34.880 Never mind.[br]I'm also hitting a wall, I think. 0:56:35.000,0:56:39.560 Why use organizations like CFOIC[br]or Nati Rom's... 0:56:39.680,0:56:44.080 or the Itamar foundation,[br]where we know that people... 0:56:44.200,0:56:47.760 Itamar is notorious [br]for its violent settlers. 0:56:47.880,0:56:53.920 Nati Rom makes strong public statements [br]about their West Bank vision. 0:56:54.040,0:57:00.160 Ms. Baras tells the BBC[br]she wants sovereignty to go to Israel. 0:57:00.480,0:57:05.400 And you support that financially.[br]-We support the people financially. 0:57:11.480,0:57:13.680 I can't sugarcoat it. 0:57:13.800,0:57:17.720 All we do,[br]is support activities in Israel. 0:57:17.840,0:57:21.200 We support people who need it.[br]-Who say these things. 0:57:21.320,0:57:27.160 In Israel, there are many different[br]opinions on the future of the conflict. 0:57:27.280,0:57:32.440 You choose to support a certain opinion.[br]-Our support is independent of that. 0:57:32.560,0:57:36.120 But you are supporting it.[br]It amounts to the same thing. 0:57:39.800,0:57:43.560 You support the people[br]who hold these views... 0:57:43.680,0:57:47.240 even if you say you don't support them[br]because of those views. 0:57:47.360,0:57:51.080 That's what we do, indeed.[br]There's nothing wrong with that. 0:57:51.200,0:57:56.920 Because in Israel there are many opinions[br]about the future of the West Bank. 0:57:57.040,0:58:01.440 They believe it would be best[br]if Israel were in charge. 0:58:01.560,0:58:03.480 So, that's the conclusion. 0:58:03.600,0:58:08.920 It doesn't matter if she says that,[br]she can still expect money from CvI. 0:58:09.040,0:58:12.080 So, that's cleared now. 0:58:12.200,0:58:14.800 We've come to the point.[br]-Great. 0:58:14.920,0:58:19.440 Right? We have everything we needed.[br]We wanted to hear your reaction. 0:58:19.560,0:58:23.360 Have a good day.[br]-Thank you. 0:58:23.480,0:58:28.560 Is the wine from the occupied territories[br]sold here too? Why is that? 0:58:28.680,0:58:32.880 Is this part of the interview?[br]-Sure. 0:58:33.000,0:58:36.240 Because it's very tasty wine.[br]-Even if it's from occupied territory. 0:58:36.360,0:58:38.640 It's under dispute.[br]-It's occupied. 0:58:38.760,0:58:40.240 It's under dispute.[br]-Occupied. 0:58:40.360,0:58:44.640 There's a dispute, to be clear.[br]-Yes, but it's clearly occupied. 0:58:44.880,0:58:49.800 This is George Orwell 101.[br]If you want a draconian regime... 0:58:49.920,0:58:54.520 the first thing you do, is teach people[br]how to speak a new language. 0:58:54.640,0:58:57.520 It's the settler lingo,[br]the settler language. 0:58:57.640,0:59:03.360 As if ignoring the United Nations and all[br]the resolutions that passed since 1967. 0:59:03.480,0:59:10.720 So, Israel occupied these territories,[br]there are territories that are occupied. 0:59:10.840,0:59:16.680 Israel recognizes that this is occupied[br]territory in terms of international law. 0:59:16.800,0:59:21.520 It's not illegal to occupy a territory.[br]That's the key thing. 0:59:21.640,0:59:27.120 It's problematic, it should be temporary,[br]but it's not illegal to occupy land. 0:59:27.240,0:59:33.480 What is illegal, is to then send settlers[br]into the occupied territories and so on. 0:59:33.600,0:59:35.760 This is where we're going into legal... 0:59:35.880,0:59:40.960 One of the tactics of settlers to say[br]there's nothing problematic about it... 0:59:41.080,0:59:44.840 is to blur the fact[br]that this is occupied land. 0:59:44.960,0:59:50.720 So, this is again a type of debate[br]about terminology... 0:59:50.840,0:59:57.360 that appeared immediately after 1967,[br]disappeared and now reappears again... 0:59:57.480,1:00:03.280 in which the hawkish Israeli right[br]is saying: Don't call it occupied territory. 1:00:03.400,1:00:06.360 They'll call it disputed territory. 1:00:06.480,1:00:11.320 That's what the international community[br]says. It's simply in Area C... 1:00:11.440,1:00:14.200 which is under Israeli control[br]according to the Oslo Accords. 1:00:14.320,1:00:16.840 The wine's from that area.[br]-Which is occupied. 1:00:16.960,1:00:20.360 It's clearly labeled.[br]We have a booklet on the wine's origin. 1:00:20.480,1:00:22.240 Occupied territory.[br]-Disputed. 1:00:22.360,1:00:26.440 Does it taste well?[br]-It's delicious. Thank you. 1:00:32.800,1:00:37.160 She was consistent in what she told us,[br]but unclear, I think. 1:00:37.280,1:00:41.960 It's almost as if she wanted to convey[br]a different truth from the CvI website. 1:00:42.080,1:00:45.080 The things that were said[br]and we've discovered. 1:00:46.200,1:00:51.320 I think her main point is they can[br]give money to whomever they want. 1:00:51.440,1:00:55.600 That it doesn't matter what those people[br]believe or what world view they promote. 1:00:55.720,1:01:00.080 They're not responsible[br]for what is done with the money. 1:01:00.200,1:01:04.160 Which, of course, is absurd. It means[br]you can say you're not responsible... 1:01:04.280,1:01:10.000 while giving tens of or even hundreds[br]of thousands of euros to extremist groups. 1:01:10.120,1:01:16.480 You can't just wash your hands of that,[br]while saying you support them. 1:01:16.600,1:01:20.160 I don't know what just happened there. 1:01:20.280,1:01:25.200 We'll go and review the facts again,[br]as we're wont to do. 1:01:25.320,1:01:31.920 In any case, we've learned that they'll be[br]talking to Naty Rom, whatever that means. 1:01:32.040,1:01:38.000 It didn't feel as if she took that[br]seriously. Let's see what she does. 1:01:38.120,1:01:40.760 She's going to call Roger van Oord. 1:01:42.960,1:01:48.880 I'm curious to see what will come of that.[br]As for the rest, you've said it all. 1:01:49.000,1:01:53.160 The question is how seriously[br]they're going to take this. 1:01:53.280,1:01:57.080 They have the same information we have. 1:01:57.200,1:02:02.120 It took us just a few days of googling[br]to find out what is going wrong. 1:02:02.240,1:02:06.800 Did they fail to do that? Or did they[br]do it, but then just ignored it? 1:02:06.920,1:02:08.360 That's also possible. 1:02:08.480,1:02:13.080 I think they have, because she just said[br]it doesn't matter what someone says. 1:02:13.200,1:02:16.200 They support all opinions and all views... 1:02:16.320,1:02:20.960 even if they are[br]as you just presented them. 1:02:21.080,1:02:25.120 On a closing note:[br]I hope that nothing happens to Jamal. 1:02:25.240,1:02:29.800 He contributed to this programme,[br]but is his safety now at risk? 1:02:29.920,1:02:32.720 He's aware, but we wish him all the best. 1:02:32.840,1:02:36.720 We don't tolerate[br]any antisemitism, islamophobia... 1:02:36.840,1:02:42.120 or other forms of discrimination[br]and racism in the comment section. 1:02:42.240,1:02:44.200 Please, refrain from that. 1:02:44.320,1:02:49.320 Stick to the facts and nothing[br]but the facts. This story requires it. 1:02:49.440,1:02:54.000 We don't want to seen any hateful stuff. 1:02:54.120,1:02:55.760 What a story. 1:03:01.960,1:03:06.680 I need the land.[br]I wish somebody could step in... 1:03:06.800,1:03:11.960 and help us with that,[br]to be able to go there... 1:03:12.080,1:03:17.120 but I know whether there's somebody[br]or not, or somebody can do it or not... 1:03:17.240,1:03:21.680 these people don't listen.[br]These settlers don't listen to nobody. 1:03:21.800,1:03:28.160 This entire movement is forbidden[br]under international law, so that's clear. 1:03:28.280,1:03:33.880 It's a bad thing. Palestinians[br]are suffering the most damage. 1:03:34.000,1:03:38.440 It is their land that is being taken.[br]It is their freedom of movement... 1:03:38.560,1:03:42.960 that is being restricted[br]in a very nasty and intrusive way. 1:03:43.080,1:03:46.400 So, that money is used[br]to violate human rights. 1:03:47.520,1:03:50.880 CvI has paused its support to Nati Rom,[br]pending further investigation. 1:03:51.000,1:03:53.800 Sara van Oordt,[br]CvI's media and communication manager... 1:03:53.920,1:03:57.120 has told the Nederlands Dagblad[br]and Investico... 1:03:57.240,1:04:01.240 that support to Nati Rom has been[br]suspended, pending further investigation. 1:04:01.360,1:04:04.240 As for the new housing estate in Revava,[br]she says: 1:04:04.360,1:04:09.320 If it is proven that the houses are built[br]on the land of a Palestinian farmer... 1:04:09.440,1:04:12.160 we will make sure it is moved elsewhere. 1:04:12.280,1:04:16.920 CvI does not want to build on any land[br]that has been stolen.' 1:04:17.040,1:04:22.120 In a reaction, Roger van Oordt states that[br]Nati Rom could not have meant to say... 1:04:22.240,1:04:26.760 'that he received cash or any money[br]off the books, from either me or CvI.' 1:04:26.880,1:04:29.440 He writes that 'this never happened'. 1:04:31.800,1:04:35.320 Arjen Domburg writes[br]on behalf of Stichting Israël Heartland... 1:04:35.440,1:04:37.840 'that they never donated[br]money off the books.... 1:04:37.960,1:04:40.200 or financed the purchase of weapons.' 1:04:40.320,1:04:44.520 'The work of undercover reporters[br]who lie about his indentity... 1:04:44.640,1:04:47.920 while inciting, manipulating[br]and pressuring'... 1:04:48.040,1:04:53.000 make it 'problematic to answer questions',[br]he maintains. 1:04:53.120,1:04:58.800 Nati Rom says that his foundation never[br]received money off the books, or cash... 1:04:58.920,1:05:02.400 from CvI, or people associated with CvI. 1:05:02.520,1:05:06.360 'They never donated money for weapons,[br]and they never will. 1:05:06.480,1:05:11.920 These are the facts. In all the work we[br]do, we follow Israeli law to the letter.' 1:05:20.240,1:05:23.520 If you found this video interesting,[br]subscribe to our channel. 1:05:23.640,1:05:26.200 It's free and keeps you up-to-date. 1:05:26.320,1:05:29.440 Every Tuesday,[br]we broadcast on this channel... 1:05:29.560,1:05:35.320 and every Thursday, on all other platforms[br]with RADIO BOOS, our podcast. See you. 1:05:35.440,1:05:38.920 There won't be a show next week,[br]but the week after that. 1:05:39.040,1:05:42.960 That has to do with the story that we're[br]airing that week. So, brace yourselves.