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I'm here with Sara van Oordt 
from Christians for Israel.

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Money from Christians for Israel 
helps to fund illegal settlements.

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This money may even buy weapons, 
as we discovered together with Investico.

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Right?

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No. 
-Yes.

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Here we go.

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We can help people get pistol licenses.

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He went there once and they tied him up 
and destroyed about 400 trees...

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while he was watching.

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Christian Zionism sees Jews 
only as instrumental.

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And there's something anti-Semitic in that.

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If you transfer this amount,
my advice is to use a neutral description.

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"Support for Judea and Samaria"
or something like that.

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No, that isn't neutral.

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Is that wine from the territories sold here?
-Yes.

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Why?
-Because it's very good wine.

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This is the land of Jamal Faris...

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a Palestinian olive farmer 
in Deir Istiya on the West Bank.

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The land has been owned by his family 
since the 1950s...

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but in the early 1990s...

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a few white trailers appear on the edge 
of Jamal's land on Palestinian territory.

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These are houses of Israeli settlers,
and they call their settlement Revava.

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Behind me in Nijkerk here
is Christians for Israel's headquarters...

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a Zionist Christian foundation.

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In this broadcast, we'll explain the link
between Jamal's land and this building.

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Jamal can't live and work normally 
on the West Bank due to the Revava settlers.

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The foundation in this Nijkerk building
is one of the facilitators for this.

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Because we discovered with Investico 
and the Nederlands Dagblad newspaper...

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that Dutch Christian Zionist organizations
contribute financially...

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to the expansion of illegal settlements 
on the West Bank.

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And this money can be used 
to bypass European sanctions...

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or purchase weapons for settlers.

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So pay attention.

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This story begins with Jamal, 
a Palestinian olive farmer.

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As we mentioned, Jamal has a problem.

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My name is Jamal Faris. 
I'm a Palestinian from the West Bank...

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...from a small town called Deir Istiya.

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I was a teacher.

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And a farmer.
I have an olive tree field.

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And we cannot take care of it right now.

41
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But why can't Jamal take care 
of his olive trees anymore?

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Here's a brief history lesson.

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After World War II, in 1948, 
the state of Israel is declared.

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Many Palestinians in this area...

45
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are displaced and settle in Gaza
and on the West Bank...

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the area between Israel 
and the Jordan River.

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The 1949 armistice created a border 
between Israel and the Palestinian territories.

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This border, known as the Green Line, 
is still observed by the United Nations.

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But during the Six-Day War in 1967, 
Israel captured the West Bank.

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Israel has occupied the area to this day.

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The Palestinian Authority 
has limited self-rule in Zones A and B...

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as agreed in the Oslo Accords.

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The vast majority, zone C, 
is governed by Israel.

54
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However, this doesn't mean 
Israel can take the land.

55
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All Israeli settlements in occupied areas 
are illegal under international law.

56
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In July 2024, the International 
Court of Justice reaffirmed this.

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It ruled that the settlements Israel built
in the West Bank should not exist...

58
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and that Israel must withdraw its settlers 
from Palestinian territories.

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But Israeli settlers have been expanding 
their authority for decades...

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by building more settlements 
on Palestinian land.

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Increasingly, settlers do this with the help 
of the Israeli army, using a lot of violence.

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Like Revava, right next to 
Jamal's olive grove.

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This field was actually planted...

64
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by my father in 1956 and 
before the Israeli occupation in 1967.

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In 1991 the settlement started
very small at the beginning...

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and started expanding, 
and now it's a big settlement.

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It took all the land over there and 
they have their wall at the border of my land.

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We had a problem in the past twenty years
taking care of that land...

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during my father's time.

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He went there once and they tied him up 
and they destroyed about 400 trees...

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while he was watching...

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and they let the sewage come through 
our land and killed about 200 trees.

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So now we don't have too much left, 
but we still have problems getting there...

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to harvest our trees.

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I can't go by myself 
because I might get beaten or shot.

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Shortly after the ceasefire in Gaza 
last January...

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the Israeli army launched
a wide-scale offensive in the West Bank.

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Palestinians are driven away, 
attacked, and murdered.

79
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Settler violence has also increased recently.

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Over a hundred incidents have been
recorded since early last year.

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This is my land.
I want to take care of it.

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I don't want to give it up.
I want to...

83
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fix it...

84
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or I will lose it.

85
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So with Investico and Nederlands Dagblad 
we investigated...

86
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the Dutch Christian Zionist organisations
contributing financially...

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to making Jamal's life a misery,
among other things.

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I'm Janneke Stegeman.

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I'm a theologian
with a PhD on the Hebrew Bible...

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and the relationship between identity 
and conflict in Hebrew texts...

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such as the use of the Hebrew Bible 
in today's conflicts in Israel and Palestine.

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And I teach at VU University.
-I'm Ari Dubnov, a historian.

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I was, born and raised 
and educated in Israel.

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I teach Israel studies and Middle Eastern 
studies at George Washington University.

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Zionism is a movement which states
that Jews...

96
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belong in Israel,
seen as their historic homeland.

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Zionism started as Christian Zionism, 
specifically among Protestants in Europe.

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This was mainly in the Dutch Republic
and also in England.

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Even before the Zionist movement...

100
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before Herzl and people 
calling themselves Zionists...

101
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there were already Christian Zionists, 
so to speak, saying:

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"We envision the return of the Jews 
to the Holy Land...

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and then it will bring 
the second coming of Christ."

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Christians see Jesus as the Messiah...

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who ascended to Heaven and 
will return on Judgment Day.

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This second coming of Christ 
involves various convictions.

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Including the return of all Jews 
to the Holy Land...

108
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and converting to Christianity.

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These texts are largely set 
in Biblical Judea and Samaria...

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with Biblical places like East Jerusalem
and Bethlehem.

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So in the Biblical idea that Jews 
must return to the Holy Land...

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this area is a vital part of this land.

113
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Shortly, we'll call a controversial Israeli settler 
in the West Bank.

114
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We'll discuss donating money...

115
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as Dutch donations play a significant part
in this story. Attention.

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Violating human rights and 
destroying Palestinian lives...

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has a very simple practical side:
it requires money.

118
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We'll show you how this money flows
and the crucial role of the Netherlands.

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How important are the Dutch 
for the Christian Friends of Israel?

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Wonderful people, just wonderful.

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We love them deeply and the relationship 
is so strong. Friendship.

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You heard Sondra Baras speaking 
to our colleagues from Investico...

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when they visited the West Bank
last January.

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Baras is the founder and 
former director of the CFO-IC...

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the Christian Friends of Israeli Communities.

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This CFO-IC is an international 
Christian Zionist organization...

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that coordinates projects 
in the settlements on the West Bank.

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The money CFO-IC receives 
from donors around the world...

129
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flows through Baras 
to these settlements on the West Bank.

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These funds are used for community centers 
and clinics...

131
00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,920
but also on drones and 
bulletproof vests for settlers.

132
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Israel receives funds 
from around the world...

133
00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:12,160
but in financial aid to the settler movement,
the Netherlands plays a key part.

134
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,480
While the US is probably the primary 
financial contributor, says Baras...

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00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,040
the relationship with the Netherlands
is also very close.

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Our partnership with Holland is vital.
We work closely with Christians for Israel.

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Christians for Israel, or CFI,
has a turnover of 13 million euros.

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It's the largest Christian Zionist foundation 
in the Netherlands...

139
00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:39,720
and supports projects on the West Bank,
according to research by Investico.

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CFI, based in Nijkerk,
was founded in the 1980s...

141
00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,840
and mainly finds support within 
the orthodox-Protestant churches.

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00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:50,480
CFI's mission is...

143
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:55,920
making Christians aware of the Jewish 
people's role in God's world plan.

144
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The foundation doesn't see the West Bank 
as occupied territory...

145
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but as the heart of Biblical Israel 
assigned to the Jewish people.

146
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CFI therefore does not use the term 
West Bank, but Judea and Samaria.

147
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CFI's influence extends to the highest circles 
in American politics.

148
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,040
Listen to Leon Meijer...

149
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former board member of the Christian Union 
Party and current CFI international chair.

150
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:30,320
Mr. Meijer, you were at Mar-a-Lago 
not too long ago. Why were you there?

151
00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:35,440
There was a Jerusalem Prayer Breakfast,
a gathering for Jerusalem's peace.

152
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And the organization 
had discussed this with Trump.

153
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"Can we hold this prayer meeting 
at your estate?"

154
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:48,160
He replied, "Jerusalem is close to my heart.
I've moved the American embassy there...

155
00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,000
so I invite you to have the prayer meeting 
on the estate."

156
00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,560
A remarkable choice, I think. 
-Yes.

157
00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:59,480
CFI has its own newspaper, talk show, 
and retail company...

158
00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:04,800
called Israel Products Center,
offering goods from the...

159
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,160
as they call it, "Promised Land",
including the occupied territories.

160
00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:14,840
There's also a business club 
with over 300 entrepreneurs.

161
00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,960
CFI also organizes trips to Israel
for volunteers and...

162
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,440
in line with the orthodox-Protestant 
Zionist body of thought...

163
00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:27,280
helps Jewish people 
from around the world with "aliyah":

164
00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,400
The return to the promised land.

165
00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,600
They're going to build up a new life in Israel.

166
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:39,240
It makes me think of Isaiah 43,
where the Lord says:

167
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,880
"Bring my sons and bring my daughters home
from far away."

168
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,680
These young Jewish children
between 13 and 17 years...

169
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:55,480
are the young new sons and daughters that 
we may bring back to the land of Israel.

170
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,760
You could say...

171
00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,920
that one of the problems 
with Christian Zionism...

172
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,560
is that they see Jews
only instrumentally.

173
00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:09,200
And I think there's 
something anti-Semitic in that.

174
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,360
So it's not interest in Jews 
as Jews see themselves...

175
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:17,840
but only in Jews 
as they fit into the Christian story.

176
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:23,400
It's a problematic vision 
as Jews are just seen as means to an end.

177
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:28,160
They are actually the small chess pieces.

178
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:33,520
They're the soldiers you sacrifice
on your way to a bigger vision.

179
00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:40,120
With all those donations, CFI realizes 
projects in what they call Judea and Samaria.

180
00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,800
In other words, on Palestinian territory.

181
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,480
And this is in conflict with Dutch policy.

182
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,080
The Dutch government 
supports a two-state solution...

183
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,040
viewing Israeli settlements
in occupied Palestinian territories...

184
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,800
as illegal and peace-threatening.

185
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:04,880
But in CFI's monthly newspaper, 
another reality seems to be presented.

186
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,080
For there, we read this:

187
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,440
In December 2024, CFI contributed to 
the construction of a retirement home...

188
00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:14,760
for stationed Israeli soldiers.

189
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,600
In 2022, to a scouting club in East Talpiot...

190
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,120
and in that same year, the Israel 
Products Center in the Netherlands...

191
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,480
donated their store profits 
to a winemaker in Kiryat Arba...

192
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,720
a settlement near Hebron.

193
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:34,120
Jewish people brought to Israel by 
the First Home in the Homeland program...

194
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,360
are also being settled 
by CFI on the West Bank...

195
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,240
as we read in blogs 
on the Christians for Israel website...

196
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,920
which is CFI's international branch.

197
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,440
Some CFI funds 
bound for the West Bank...

198
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:54,200
go to the Christian Friends of Israeli 
Communities we mentioned before.

199
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,520
And this brings us back to Jamal.

200
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:03,760
For, in 2023, CFOIC director Sondra Baras
thanks CFI Holland...

201
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:09,760
for a major contribution to the security 
system of a new residential area in Revava.

202
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:14,160
The existence of Reviva and its expansion
has direct consequences...

203
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:20,360
for the Palestinians who own and cultivate 
the adjoining land, including Jamal.

204
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,720
Part of his land next to
the illegal settlement of Revava's wall...

205
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,600
is too dangerous for him to enter.

206
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,840
Even reaching his own land 
has been made impossible for him.

207
00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:38,160
I used to go from this town to my field 
straightforward in the car...

208
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:44,000
but when they built the settlement, it's 
an obstacle between my town and my field.

209
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,000
It's in the middle, actually.

210
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:53,080
We have to go through it and now we're not
allowed to go through the settlement.

211
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:54,960
I can't get close to it.

212
00:15:55,080 --> 00:16:00,480
Please go up.
It's not by distance 40 meters up.

213
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:05,480
What if you just keep two soldiers 
to protect us here and just finish it?

214
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:10,400
What's the deal? Why?
It's no big issue.

215
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,680
We're peaceful people, 
just here to pick olives...

216
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,200
and we have trouble 
even using roads.

217
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,400
So now we have to make a big circle
all the way to the west...

218
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,360
taking bad roads, not active streets.

219
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,840
It's just roads they use for animals.

220
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,880
And it takes two hours for me 
to get to my field.

221
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,840
If it was free like before 
I could drive my car...

222
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:44,640
and just within a few minutes, 
if I have that big field...

223
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,200
we could be making good money out of it 
from that oil.

224
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,360
But now we lost that chance.

225
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,640
Those 800 trees that we've had...

226
00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:00,480
they could make maybe 
three, four tons of oil...

227
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,960
and that was ten, fifteen,
twenty thousand dollars.

228
00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:11,240
Now we don't have that chance. 
How can we live without money?

229
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:17,200
Attention. We read something else
in the Christians for Israel newspaper.

230
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:22,880
After October 7th, 2023, Christians for Israel 
creates an emergency fund.

231
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:29,080
Part of the donations collected by CFI
through this fund goes to Or Ami...

232
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:35,400
a foundation set up by settler activist and 
lawyer Nati Rom. Remember that name.

233
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:40,360
Nati Rom regularly visits the Netherlands
at the invitation of CFI...

234
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:45,760
and even set up a foundation here:
The Israel Heartland Foundation.

235
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,520
This is Nati Rom. Attention.

236
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,240
Shalom friends from Jabalia.

237
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:56,320
Shabbat shalom to our friends worldwide.
With God's help, we'll win.

238
00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:01,840
We will do it together with the rabbi
over there.

239
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,920
We do whatever we can 
to wreak redemption here in Jabalia.

240
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:10,560
As written in here: Shabbat shalom 
from the heartland of Israel.

241
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:16,160
Rom supports demonstrators who
attacked aid convoys at the Gaza border...

242
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:22,040
and defends IDF soldiers standing trial for 
systematic rape of Palestinian prisoners.

243
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:27,160
His third specialty is applying for 
and defending weapon permits.

244
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:31,800
When not aiding settlers, 
he serves as an Israeli army reservist.

245
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,080
Rom is seen in videos 
with night vision drones...

246
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,480
a new watchtower for an army base
on the West Bank...

247
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,760
and a group of heavily armed men 
he seems to be training.

248
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:48,800
For drones and watchtower purchases,
Dutch donors are thanked on the blog.

249
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,080
But where Rom got the weapons from, 
is unclear.

250
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,280
Arjen Domburg, chairman 
of the Israel Heartland Foundation...

251
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,440
and Nati Rom's right-hand man
in the Netherlands...

252
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,040
doesn't seem to know 
where all donations go.

253
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:07,880
Days after the shooting men video, 
Domburg writes this.

254
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,840
"Equipment has been bought 
for the villages' security.

255
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:19,000
What, where and how isn't exactly clear, 
but a lot of equipment has been bought."

256
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:25,280
Of course we had many questions, 
but Rom won't answer Investico.

257
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:31,840
So, we decided together with our colleagues 
from Investico to take a different approach.

258
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:37,160
We created the character Albert Dijkstra,
played by Allard from Investico.

259
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,640
Dijkstra, from Drachtsercompagnie,
has inherited money from his mother...

260
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:47,960
and wants to donate 15,000 to 20,000 euros
to Rom's Dutch foundation.

261
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:53,120
We tell this story to the Israel Heartland 
Foundation chairman, Arjen Domburg.

262
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,240
As Rom's Dutch right-hand man...

263
00:19:56,360 --> 00:20:02,320
...he can tell us more about the 
exact destination of the Dutch money.

264
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:07,000
And we might also learn more...

265
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:12,120
about Christians for Israel's 
financial flows.

266
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,800
The conversation with Domburg 
starts like this.

267
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,600
Good morning, this is Albert Dijkstra.

268
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,440
Good morning. 
-Hi. Thanks for calling.

269
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:28,880
I can imagine it's difficult 
for Mr. Rom over there and also for you...

270
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:35,080
to get funding for the "heavier" stuff.

271
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:36,720
So as far as I am concerned...

272
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:42,160
if it's about equipment or weapons...

273
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,240
...I'm fine with all of it.
I'll help if needed.

274
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:52,520
No, we don't actually do
those kinds of things.

275
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,760
I mean, weapons aren't just sold 
on the nearest street corner in Israel.

276
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,000
Another thing.
You mentioned those newsletters...

277
00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:08,640
with a summary of what you've been doing 
over the past few months, the past year.

278
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:10,920
Are they on your website?

279
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,320
No, because sometimes 
the newsletters contain stuff...

280
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,800
we'd rather not publish.

281
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,120
Right, I see.

282
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,640
Domburg isn't showing all his cards yet,
but we also ask him:

283
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:31,840
"Our donation will be substantial. 
Can we talk to Nati Rom himself?"

284
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:32,760
It works.

285
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:38,360
I think it's best if I contact Nati...

286
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:44,680
to discuss this matter.

287
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:50,160
And then I'll send you an email.
Is that a good idea?

288
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,960
Yes, that is a good idea.

289
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:58,920
This is where it gets interesting. 
Domburg puts us in contact with Nati Rom.

290
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:05,360
Nati Rom is a key figure in a network 
of controversial West Bank settlers.

291
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:10,880
His Or Ami foundation collaborates with 
the Dutch Israel Heartland Foundation...

292
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,280
but also receives money from 
Christians for Israel's emergency fund.

293
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,120
We agree to call him two days later.

294
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,640
Hi. Good afternoon. 
-Good afternoon.

295
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:34,360
First, Rom tells us that he uses 
food vouchers for sanctioned settlers...

296
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,520
for other purposes too.

297
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,080
Between you and me, 
we don't know each other yet...

298
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,040
but this is the reason I use the food cards, 
because it's not only food...

299
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:49,480
it's the card that they can use 
in one hundred main stores in Israel.

300
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:54,840
They can also buy a tool, working tool.
There's a lot of options.

301
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,640
Okay, so they can use the card 
how they want...

302
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:05,480
even if they have trouble with the
what's it called the sanctions or...

303
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,520
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, yes.

304
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:16,320
If you work with any of the people that were 
attacked by the EU or the US, I would...

305
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:24,400
I am. I represent them in court and also we 
are supporting them in their places for sure.

306
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:29,320
Then it's on to our donation.
How would Rom like to receive that money?

307
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,640
Through the Israel Heartland Foundation
or is cash preferred?

308
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,960
Cash is always the best. 
For example...

309
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:41,800
...there's people 
who are stuck with the sanction.

310
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,480
For them, cash is the best.

311
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,280
So we do for them the food card.

312
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,240
But also the foundation is okay.
Yes, we have our ways.

313
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:56,080
Okay, so cash is the best.

314
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:01,320
But what is Nati Rom actually going to do 
with our cash? Here's the answer.

315
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,000
We can help people 
get licenses for pistols.

316
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:08,920
We can also subsidize the price.

317
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:15,280
To subsidize for people who want to buy, 
to subsidize the price, this can be.

318
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:22,040
How much will it cost to subsidize also 
a pistol or a firearm? Does that, is that...?

319
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:23,280
It depends on us.

320
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:29,760
Let's say a firearm here will cost 
something like 3000 or 4000. It depends.

321
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,760
And so it depends on us also 
how much...

322
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,200
I think you don't need to
subsidize everything.

323
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,440
Just half or three quarters 
or something like that.

324
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,120
Perfect.

325
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:49,560
And then if I send the money...
if I do it via Heartland here...

326
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,480
that will get to you...?

327
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:53,560
Yeah. 
-Okay.

328
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,600
Arjen is an amazing person...

329
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:03,960
with giving not only his time,
but everything for this. It's amazing.

330
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:05,360
Yes.

331
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,960
Right. With the money we donate to him...

332
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,960
Nati Rom can finance weapons
for settlers.

333
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,600
And although Arjen Domburg 
previously denied this...

334
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:21,440
Rom says this can be done through Israel 
Heartland Foundation in the Netherlands.

335
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,360
Then Nati Rom suddenly starts talking 
about Roger van Oordt...

336
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,880
the former director of Christians for Israel.

337
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,520
Roger van Oordt 
is a very good friend of mine.

338
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,680
He came to my place like twenty times.

339
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,840
We're very connected, 
I love him very much.

340
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,400
He's a great person, 
but for years...

341
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:49,320
his organization rather give millions 
to projects like...

342
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:55,360
building the windmill in Jerusalem
and flowers...

343
00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:00,160
and they didn't want to be connected
because they were afraid.

344
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:06,360
And when he was helping me
it was in a small amount and secretly.

345
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,640
This is one of the things I'm saying. 
From time to time he used to help us...

346
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,800
but secretly. 
He has his way how to do it.

347
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,880
But for what I do, for what I want, 
I don't do flowers.

348
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,920
Okay, Nati Rom doesn't do flowers.

349
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,480
And CFI found donating as a foundation
difficult...

350
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:31,480
but luckily the director of CFI himself
came by with cash.

351
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,920
But why is that such a smart idea?

352
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,280
If I could help you 
do most of it off the books...

353
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,960
you can spend it more easily 
on subsidising pistols and stuff...

354
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,040
because otherwise 
that would be difficult, or what?

355
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,200
It's always easier in the other way.

356
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,000
Yeah, okay. 
-God bless you. Thank you so much.

357
00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:55,520
Good luck, please stay safe, okay?

358
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,280
Oh, my God.
Funding pistols is possible.

359
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,600
How about 
calling Arjen Domburg now?

360
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:10,920
So in summary, Nati Rom wants to take our 
money and can buy weapons with it too.

361
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,400
He prefers to get money off the books, 
like Roger van Oordt did it...

362
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,680
but the Heartland Foundation works as well.

363
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,280
We decide to call chairman Arjen Domburg
again with this good news.

364
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,440
Is he still on board 
with this info in his pocket?

365
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,000
Arjen Domburg speaking.

366
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:32,560
Hi, good afternoon.
-Good afternoon.

367
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:37,800
Hi. I just called Nati.
-Oh, nice.

368
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:43,200
It was really a great conversation.

369
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,760
I'm really impressed.

370
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:52,080
Nati and I decided together
it would be best...

371
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:59,960
...if the money could be spent on cameras
for those families or communities.

372
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,520
He also talked about 
firearm and quad subsidies.

373
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:11,880
Nati said the easiest way is to just transfer it
to the Heartland Foundation.

374
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,760
We could do it early next week.

375
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:21,320
So you can forward it right away and 
ensure it goes to those three things?

376
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,240
I'll send the whole amount all at once.

377
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:31,640
I'll forward it to Nati's foundation.
Then he can access it directly.

378
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:38,800
If you transfer this sum, my advice
would be to use a neutral description.

379
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:45,880
Like "support for Judea and Samaria" 
or something.

380
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,280
I wouldn't mention that.
-No?

381
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,440
No, that's not neutral.

382
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:58,280
I would just say "support Nati Rom"
or "N. Rom" or "support..."

383
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:03,080
Or maybe just in Dutch, 
to let sleeping dogs lie.

384
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:10,040
Last time you mentioned 15,000 to 20,000 
euros. I wouldn't take that out in cash...

385
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:11,920
and get on a plane.

386
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,240
Right. What kind of expenses 
are best in cash?

387
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:22,000
The kind of things we just talked about.

388
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,920
Those are the...
How can I put it?

389
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:31,720
The more difficult cases 
where no one wants to leave any traces.

390
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,480
The roads, the weapons,
that kind of thing.

391
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,320
I think so.

392
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:42,360
Christians of Israel, 
with the Van Oord family...

393
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:47,080
they have much more cash available
because of their collection money.

394
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,000
Yes, I see.

395
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,040
Like Nati... I remember a few years ago.

396
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:02,840
I think was the first time I met him.
He gave three talks for Christians from Israel.

397
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:08,320
There were three collections,
and in one church, 500 people attended.

398
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,760
Then the cash adds up quickly.

399
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,680
And then you get to take the stationery.

400
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,800
You know we're 
a Public Benefit Organization?

401
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,960
So tax-wise that's also interesting.

402
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,360
So what can we conclude from this?

403
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:31,120
1: Nati Rom can help settlers 
in illegal settlements to get weapons...

404
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:36,600
and ensure they're untraceable.
This can be done with Dutch money.

405
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,040
2: Donations from the Heartland Foundation...

406
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,800
are sometimes brought to Israel in cash
for "difficult" purchases.

407
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,960
3: Roger van Oordt, a member 
of the CFI family for 45 years...

408
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,320
is good friends with Nati Rom...

409
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:57,040
and has occasionally made secret and 
off-the-books donations when visiting Rom.

410
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:02,880
4: CFI held multiple collections at gatherings
where Nati Rom spoke in the Netherlands...

411
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,840
and gave him the cash.

412
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,600
5: With the food cards 
for which Nati Rom collected money...

413
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:16,960
sanctioned settlers could not only buy food
but also purchase other items.

414
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:22,960
In this way, EU sanctions on those settlers 
could be bypassed.

415
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:28,640
Ivo Amar, a sanction law specialist, 
says this:

416
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:33,000
Economic resources means
essentially everything that has value.

417
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:39,280
It can be a food voucher or a gift card, 
even a car.

418
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:45,880
Basically anything movable, immovable,
even intangible...

419
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,760
that represents any value, 
so even a service...

420
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:56,080
...may not be provided 
to such a settler.

421
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,440
That would be a criminal offense.

422
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,400
I'm also a Christian...

423
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:10,240
so let's say it's a Christian value 
to treat others as you wish to be treated.

424
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:16,840
I think it's harsh that Palestinians 
are totally absent from this story.

425
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:22,280
While all our eyes are set on Gaza 
for obvious reasons...

426
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,920
on the other hand, it allows
the settlers in the West Bank...

427
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,400
what they call Judea and Samaria...

428
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:34,040
to do what is practically an ethnic cleansing 
that no one is paying attention to.

429
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,360
So the idea is that God 
promised the land to the Jews...

430
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,560
and the Palestinians, 
as original inhabitants...

431
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:47,480
have to go and live in another
Arab country.

432
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:53,040
It shows that Christian Zionism 
is always connected with colonialism.

433
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:58,680
They're building up more houses, 
and somebody is helping them, I guess...

434
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,600
sending them money to expand.

435
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:06,600
I wish these settlements 
will be dismantled and leave.

436
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,960
Because as long as they are there,
they will keep bothering us...

437
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,520
and they will keep expanding.

438
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:20,680
They should stop, because we are 
humans too. We are natives here.

439
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:26,520
You are encouraging this town,
this settlement, to expand...

440
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:33,600
and take our land. It's our land 
for thousands of years, that field.

441
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,960
<i>Dutch Faces Behind Settlement</i>
<i>"This is Settlers' Language."</i>

442
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,480
We're headed to Christians for Israel,
in this building,

443
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,280
Obviously, we have some questions.

444
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,840
Before we get there, 
we first want to show you...

445
00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:05,360
who's behind Christians for Israel 
and the route to this discussion.

446
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,360
Christians for Israel 
is run by the Van Oordt family.

447
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,600
Frank van Oordt, 
son of founder Karel van Oordt...

448
00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:15,640
has led the foundation since 2020.

449
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,600
Frank succeeded his brother Roger 
van Oordt, whom you heard of earlier.

450
00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:24,480
Roger led Christians for Israel 
for nearly 30 years.

451
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,200
He now has a new position...

452
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,600
as honorary consul of the State of Israel 
in the Netherlands.

453
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:33,680
This means he assists Dutch 
nationals abroad...

454
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,000
and looks after Dutch trade interests 
in Israel.

455
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:42,680
According to Nati Rom, Roger allegedly 
smuggled cash to the West Bank.

456
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:48,160
Then there's Sara van Oordt, 
married to the founder's grandson.

457
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:55,200
She's CFI's head of media and 
communication and hosts their talk show.

458
00:34:55,320 --> 00:35:01,440
It's 2025 and Israel has been at war 
for 458 days now.

459
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:06,440
In the 2023 elections, she was a candidate 
for the Christian Union Party.

460
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:13,840
We first call Frank, the foundation's 
director, to discuss our findings.

461
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:18,800
You're saying quite something there.

462
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,920
But what you're saying isn't true at all. 
-What isn't true?

463
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:29,640
You're saying we finance
illegal settlements.

464
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,080
You're saying we finance those.
That's not true at all.

465
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:41,080
I think you should call 
our spokesperson.

466
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,880
So who should I call? 
-Sara van Oort.

467
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,560
Frank directs us to Sara and we call her.

468
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:53,840
She needs some time but calls back later.
She wants to come and talk.

469
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:58,240
Okay, great. Let's arrange that.
Tuesday at 10 o'clock.

470
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,760
Hi. Hello.
-Welcome.

471
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,440
Tim. Nice to meet you.
-Sara.

472
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,880
Welcome to the center.
-Thank you.

473
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,920
Can we put the camera on the shoulder?
-Sure.

474
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,960
We'd like to discuss some things you fund.

475
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:23,240
Starting with Revava. In 2022, you supported 
the construction of a new neighborhood.

476
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,520
How much did you contribute?

477
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,240
We sponsored twelve houses there.

478
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:34,040
Temporary homes that are also movable.
They were 25,000 euros each.

479
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,040
Why did you choose to donate 
specifically to this project?

480
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,160
We've supported many projects for years.

481
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,840
It was a project 
at the start of the Ukraine crisis...

482
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:50,520
when Ukrainian refugees flooded
into the Netherlands as well as Israel.

483
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,720
In Israel, they were housed in places 
including Revava.

484
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,120
And why was the choice made to locate it 
in that neighborhood?

485
00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:05,000
The municipality chose that. It's within
municipal boundaries, so they decide.

486
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,160
They had space for twelve little houses.

487
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,480
So it's not a whole neighborhood, 
just twelve temporary homes.

488
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,480
They were built under Israeli law...

489
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,320
partly on land from a Palestinian 
from the nearby village of Deir Istiya...

490
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:24,120
and partly on land managed by Israel 
without permission given.

491
00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:30,280
Nearby buildings are under demolition order 
by the Israeli government.

492
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,240
Specifically for this neigborhood?
-Yes.

493
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,400
You didn't know this?
-I wasn't aware of it.

494
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,480
Is that checked 
before you finance a neighborhood?

495
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:45,000
We always consult the local municipality 
for suitable locations.

496
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:51,640
And they said, "This area is in Zone C 
under the Oslo Accords."

497
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:57,160
It's under Israeli administration,
and they chose this area.

498
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,640
Israeli administration doesn't mean 
it's Israeli land. You know that.

499
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,760
That's disputed.

500
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,960
You're the ones disputing it.
Legally, it's true.

501
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,320
Can you repeat the question?
-It wasn't a question. I provided information.

502
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,920
You say it's disputed, 
but you're disputing it.

503
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,800
It's under Israeli military law, 
but Israel can't just take the land.

504
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:25,520
That's not entirely true.
The Oslo Accords were signed in the 1990s.

505
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:31,600
Zones A, B, and C were agreed upon.
C is under Israeli administration.

506
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:33,320
Military administration?

507
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,480
Yes, but also civilian administration, 
because Israelis live there.

508
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,400
A is under Palestinian control.

509
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:44,560
B is under shared control. 
There, military law applies, but not in C.

510
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,680
The idea about the C area is that 
it's controlled fully by Israel...

511
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:54,680
in terms of its police and military...

512
00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:01,520
not in terms of the way 
you run the land there.

513
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:07,880
The Israeli parliament never passed a law 
saying area C is Israeli territory.

514
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,560
So that's part of what's going on here.

515
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,880
As we've seen now...

516
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:23,240
contributing to the expansion of Israeli 
settlements is a violation of international law.

517
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,560
According to the Oslo Accords,
Israel has the right...

518
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,520
They're a basis for a final agreement.

519
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,680
Which hasn't been reached.
-Unfortunately, not yet.

520
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,480
Which means that the West Bank...
-Is disputed.

521
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,040
Can be governed by the Israelis...

522
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,000
but it doesn't mean Palestinian land
must be given up.

523
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,920
Conflicts happen and
they also go to court.

524
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:52,440
If it turns out that the land is 
in fact owned by Palestinians...

525
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:57,120
the court will rule that 
those settlements must be cleared.

526
00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:00,160
It has happened before.
It will happen again.

527
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:07,480
I've checked whether there is 
a claim on Revava.

528
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,600
There is, but it has never been 
to court.

529
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:16,240
There are many conflicts in the West Bank
in the C area where Israel is in control...

530
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,800
where Palestinians say the land is ours.

531
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:23,720
So they go to court, and yes,
lawsuits do drag on.

532
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:29,160
Sometimes the ruling is in favor of Israel,
sometimes of Palestinians.

533
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:34,840
Just to be clear, the homes in question 
in Revava are illegal under Israeli law.

534
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:36,240
This is documented...

535
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:42,360
and these buildings received a demolition
order from the Israeli authorities in 2022.

536
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:48,360
That's the issue here.

537
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,280
You still believe it's morally justified 
to support this.

538
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,560
It's under Israeli administration.

539
00:40:54,680 --> 00:41:01,840
Israel is a democratic state of law 
and land conflicts are decided in court.

540
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:08,320
And if the land is not Israel's but belongs 
to Palestinians, we'll relocate those homes.

541
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,040
Is that a deal?
-We simply adhere to the law.

542
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:18,680
Revava's existence and expansion directly 
impacts Palestinians with land next to it.

543
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:23,080
One is Jamal Faris, a Palestinian 
olive farmer from Deir Istiya.

544
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:28,840
His land borders directly on the wall 
of the illegal settlement of Revava.

545
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:34,360
It's too dangerous for him to access.
He can hardly reach his own land.

546
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,960
We have an audio clip.

547
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:43,840
He went there once and they tied him up 
and destroyed about 400 trees...

548
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,320
while he was watching.

549
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:50,000
So now we don't have too much left, 
but we still have problems getting there...

550
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,320
to harvest our trees.

551
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:58,240
I can't go by myself 
because I might get beaten or shot.

552
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,280
That's the situation for him 
and other Palestinians in the area.

553
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,240
Does this affect you? 
-It affects me a lot.

554
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:08,040
Will it impact funds to Revava 
from Christians for Israel?

555
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,640
It affects me greatly, the suffering.
I want to emphasize that.

556
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:18,680
If it turns out our sponsored houses 
shouldn't be there...

557
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:23,320
we'll relocate them, 
but we'll investigate this thoroughly.

558
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:29,480
We owe responsibility to our donors. I must
explain our financial spending to them.

559
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,920
So you promise 
to thoroughly investigate this?

560
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:39,000
And if according to international law
it's wrong to displace these Palestinians...

561
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,720
your foundation will pull out?
-Of course.

562
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,080
Let's talk about Nati Rom.
-I know him.

563
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,840
Nati Rom gave three talks in the Netherlands 
in June 2022.

564
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:55,120
Collections were made 
when Nati Rom spoke here...

565
00:42:55,240 --> 00:43:00,080
at your invitation.
You gave him the cash money.

566
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:05,360
Why did that money go to Nati Rom? 
-I don't recall. When was this?

567
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,560
2022. 
-I don't remember exactly.

568
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:14,040
I'd have to check. But we did sponsor him
immediately after October 7th.

569
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,800
So money went to Or Ami 
from your emergency fund?

570
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,320
But in 2022, we didn't yet
have an emergency fund.

571
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:25,360
That was in 2023, but in 2022 
you gave the collection money to Rom.

572
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,360
It's all recorded. We don't just 
hand over an envelope.

573
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,680
Nothing off the books?
-Of course not.

574
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:38,080
Let's start with that cash money in '22 that 
went to Nati Rom. Want was that meant for?

575
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,000
I'd have to check.

576
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:45,600
Why donate to Or Ami, to his foundation, 
from the emergency fund?

577
00:43:45,720 --> 00:43:50,120
We donate to many organizations. 
-Yes.

578
00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:55,400
We list about 20 on our website, I think.
-What are the conditions?

579
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,760
Conditions for...?
-For receiving money from you.

580
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,840
The conditions are...

581
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:06,000
After October 7th, the Hamas massacre, 
we saw Israel in need.

582
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:10,560
We set up an emergency fund 
to support people with food parcels...

583
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,480
emergency kits and also security.

584
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:21,440
We sponsored a number of shelters 
for people seeking refuge in bunkers.

585
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,080
The condition is 
that it must fit our policy.

586
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,800
We want to give humanitarian aid...

587
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:33,760
and support people, both Jews and 
Palestinians, with food aid, for instance.

588
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:39,480
Are there limits you won't cross?
Things your foundation shouldn't do?

589
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,320
There are many things 
a foundation shouldn't do.

590
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,280
We're against violence,
so we don't support violence.

591
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:51,160
Would you indirectly fund weapons?
-Neither directly nor indirectly. No way.

592
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,320
Then I'd like to play you something.

593
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:58,000
We can help people 
get licenses for pistols.

594
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,600
We can also subsidize the price.

595
00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:08,280
To subsidize for people who want to buy, 
to subsidize the price, this can be.

596
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:15,000
How much would it cost to subsidize 
also a pistol or a firearm?

597
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:16,400
It depends on us.

598
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:22,560
Let's say a firearm here will cost 
something like 3000 or 4000. It depends.

599
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,840
Do you get what's being said?

600
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,840
That you could subsidize a weapon 
or something, right?

601
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,080
With donated money.
-But not from Christians for Israel.

602
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,400
That is the question. 
-That is the answer.

603
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,200
Are you sure?

604
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,240
I'm 100% sure. 
-How do you know?

605
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:46,640
It goes against our policy.
Donations are earmarked for specific goals.

606
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,120
We're a serious 
Public Benefit Organisation.

607
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:54,600
We adhere to rules, that's our policy.

608
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:57,840
What would we gain by doing this?

609
00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:59,800
Let's put this in moral terms.

610
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:03,720
Would you continue work with Nati Rom 
and his foundation...

611
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:09,480
knowing he also finances weapons 
with donations?

612
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,240
That's a hard question.
-Why?

613
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:18,080
You're confronting me with this now.
I asked to get your questions up front.

614
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,400
I didn't get them,
so we couldn't confer.

615
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:25,840
Christians for Israel doesn't support 
weapons. I want to emphasize this again.

616
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:30,360
You just hope. 
-I'm sure of it. It's not hope.

617
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,360
Our books are in order.
We know what we're donating to.

618
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,800
So let's look at the books. 
-Yes.

619
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:42,520
We had another talk with Nati Rom and 
Arjen Domburg. You know him, I think.

620
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:48,480
I know his name, not the person. 
-From the Heartland Foundation.

621
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:54,440
This was a conversation about 
Roger van Oordt, well-known to you.

622
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,800
Roger van Oordt 
is a very good friend of mine.

623
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,720
He came to my place like twenty times.

624
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:03,640
You know this, right? 
-I do.

625
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:09,440
He brings groups to us 
to be inspired, you know.

626
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:12,680
And he for years and years...

627
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,320
We're very connected and I love him
personally very much.

628
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:21,000
He's a great person,
but for years...

629
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:26,320
his organization rather gives millions 
to projects like...

630
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:32,200
building the windmill in Jerusalem
and flowers...

631
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:36,960
and they didn't want to be connected 
because they were afraid.

632
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:43,320
And when he was helping me,
it was in a small amount and secretly.

633
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,760
So from time to time
he used to help us...

634
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,520
but secretly. 
He has his way how to do it.

635
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,960
But for what I do, for what I want, 
I don't do flowers.

636
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,960
Nati Rom is talking about off-the-books
money which Roger van Oordt...

637
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,960
Secretly, he said.
I don't recognize that.

638
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,240
He talked about off-the-books money...

639
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:09,920
and said that Roger van Oort provided him
with cash, and possibly implies there...

640
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,760
as you heard,
"I don't do flowers"...

641
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:18,280
implying off-the-books actions
like possibly financing weapons.

642
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,520
I stick to my story. We don't finance 
weapons on the books...

643
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,920
and we don't do anything off the books.
-Nati Rom says you do.

644
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,800
Those are his words.
We don't do things off the books.

645
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:35,240
I can't check it...
-You'll have to take my word for it.

646
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:39,920
Will you ask Roger van Oordt? 
-No, I'll look into this, of course.

647
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:41,360
Are you shocked?

648
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:47,360
We're being presented with things 
I'm not aware of.

649
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:52,120
As Christians for Israel, 
we're accountable for our donations.

650
00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:58,360
I stand by that, having insight 
into the projects we support.

651
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,760
We do not support violence. Period.

652
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:07,320
You also funded 2,000 food vouchers 
in 2023.

653
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,160
Let's discuss food vouchers.
We'll go back to Nati Rom.

654
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,360
Between you and me, 
we don't know each other yet...

655
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,400
but this is the reason I use the food cards,
because it's not only food...

656
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:24,920
it's a card that they can use 
in one hundred main stores in Israel.

657
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:29,200
They can also buy a tool, working tool.

658
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,920
One project that might be interesting
for you...

659
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:37,600
is buying a small car, an ATV,
I can show you a picture.

660
00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:42,720
It's for guarding at night
and in the day they're working with it.

661
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,040
There's a lot of options.
-Okay. So the card is...

662
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:50,560
They can use it how they want, 
even if they have trouble with the...

663
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,840
what's it called, the sanctions or...

664
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Exactly, yes.

665
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,720
What Nati Rom tells us 
is that the food vouchers here...

666
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:09,480
can help bypass sanctions against settlers
sanctioned by bodies like the EU.

667
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:11,800
This isn't about gifts 
from Christians for Israel.

668
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,040
No, but my question is:

669
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:18,240
When you hear this,
Nati Rom funding weapons...

670
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:24,000
accepting cash from Roger van Oordt
and wanting to bypass sanctions...

671
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:27,600
our expert says this was about
bypassing sanctions...

672
00:50:27,720 --> 00:50:30,880
is this enough to stop working
with the foundation?

673
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:35,480
We're against any form of violence.
-Yes, you said that.

674
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:39,160
And we will talk to Nati Rom.
We know...

675
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,800
You'll talk to Nati Rom, but...
-Definitely.

676
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,600
We've cooperated with him 
for many years.

677
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:53,240
If it turns out that donations from
Christians for Israel are misused by him...

678
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:57,800
we'll ask questions and we'll stop 
if he continues to do so.

679
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:03,000
Why do you call this area Judea and Samaria 
instead of the West Bank?

680
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,960
It's the name used in Israel 
for the area.

681
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:11,600
Yes, but it's the West Bank.
-It's just a name, right?

682
00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:16,520
It's like North and South Holland 
together making up Holland.

683
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,280
That's what it's called.
In Israel, it's Judea and Samaria.

684
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,960
A biblical term.
-Biblical, but used in Israel.

685
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:31,040
This is the way the religious settlers 
refer to the land in its biblical terms.

686
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:35,320
It's not the way 
the great majority of Israelis...

687
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:39,320
nor the legal system, 
nor the documents refer to it.

688
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:43,480
The Israelis up to recently 
would call it "Hagda Ma'aravi"...

689
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,520
which is literally the West Bank.

690
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:49,240
You contribute directly to 
Nati Rom's foundation...

691
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:55,440
which is clearly committed to maintaining 
and expanding settlements.

692
00:51:55,560 --> 00:52:00,680
You have contributed directly to
the expansion of the settlement in Revava.

693
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:07,360
And you work with Sondra Baras' 
Christian Friends of Israeli Communities.

694
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:13,480
She has said, I believe on British tv,
after Trump came to power...

695
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:20,960
that Palestinians should accept the fact
that they will never have sovereignty.

696
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,320
In a draconian regime, 
the first thing you're saying is...

697
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,360
teaching people 
how to speak a new language.

698
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,920
So this is...
-This is settler lingo.

699
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:32,480
This is settler language...

700
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:39,680
as if ignoring the United Nations and 
all the resolutions that passed since 1967.

701
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:45,160
In that sense you say,
"we'll accept whatever happens."

702
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:50,480
But in the meantime, 
you commit financially and materially...

703
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:57,240
to organizations whose goal is to make
the West Bank as Jewish as possible.

704
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:02,800
I'm not concerned with the opinions 
of those you mentioned.

705
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:08,120
But you do support them financially.
-We also back those against Netanyahu.

706
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:13,040
We know what we're supporting.
Donations go to specific projects.

707
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:17,480
It's about supporting an ideology...
-We don't support any ideology.

708
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:22,120
This is strange. If I tie Allard's laces 
and then slap you...

709
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:25,880
I can't say, "I slapped you, 
but I also tied his laces, so it's okay."

710
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:32,880
You're supporting foundations that contribute 
to the colonisation of territories.

711
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:37,480
We just support people.
-You're not just supporting people.

712
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,400
Yes, we do.
We're discussing opinions.

713
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,240
You have your opinion
about the territory's future.

714
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,280
That's irrelevant, as I don't oversee 
a donating foundation.

715
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:52,520
You donate a lot of Dutch money.
-It's not that much for those territories.

716
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:59,240
Such extreme remarks aren't a problem?
-You say extreme, but she may have a point.

717
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:03,960
Currently it might be better 
if Israel controls the area...

718
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:09,080
rather than having a Palestinian authority 
or even Hamas in control.

719
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,280
Purely in pragmatic terms.

720
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:20,160
Just now, the Palestinian population suffers
from a poorly organized leadership...

721
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:26,240
so maybe it's more of a pragmatic approach 
than an ideological approach.

722
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:30,800
I must go against this, 
for there's much more going on than...

723
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:34,760
It complicates when Palestinians
want their land...

724
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:40,960
but when it's about Palestinian leadership, 
it's straightforward.

725
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:46,200
You know that's very complex too.
-Extremely complex.

726
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:53,520
What would it take for Christians for Israel
to stop supporting or donating?

727
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:55,800
When would we pull out?

728
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,160
When violence is used.

729
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:00,840
Can you define that?

730
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:04,440
Well, violence. Weapons maybe?

731
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:09,640
We don't do that. It's against our policy.
We want no part in that.

732
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,080
Stealing land?
-Nor in that.

733
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:13,840
Colonising?
-We abide by the law.

734
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,240
What can we agree upon
after this conversation?

735
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:20,720
You'll look into Revava. 
We've just told you the story.

736
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:25,400
If it's illegal and hampers people
like Jamal...

737
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,400
...you'll end your support,
the homes must go.

738
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:30,760
They'll have to be moved.
-Where?

739
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:32,920
I don't know yet.

740
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,360
Then there's Nati Rom.

741
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,120
You'll wash our hands of him.

742
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:40,840
Look, we'll talk with Nati Rom.

743
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:47,920
You've confronted me today with 
a telephone conversation I was unaware of.

744
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:52,880
We'll talk to Nati Rom and 
see what the consequences will be.

745
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:58,120
So spreading an ideology would not be
enough for you to pull out?

746
00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:02,280
This is about politics, not ideology.
That's okay.

747
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:06,960
This is a free country, and so is Israel.
Different opinions are allowed.

748
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,640
Everything you do 
has been allowed so far.

749
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,800
How does the foundation see it?
You speak for it, right?

750
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:18,840
We don't support people 
based on their political views.

751
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,840
We just support all people.

752
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:29,640
But that's not what you guys do, right?

753
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:34,880
Never mind.
I'm also hitting a wall, I think.

754
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:39,560
Why use organizations like CFOIC
or Nati Rom's...

755
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:44,080
or the Itamar foundation,
where we know that people...

756
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:47,760
Itamar is notorious 
for its violent settlers.

757
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:53,920
Nati Rom makes strong public statements 
about their West Bank vision.

758
00:56:54,040 --> 00:57:00,160
Ms. Baras tells the BBC
she wants sovereignty to go to Israel.

759
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:05,400
And you support that financially.
-We support the people financially.

760
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:13,680
I can't sugarcoat it.

761
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:17,720
All we do,
is support activities in Israel.

762
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:21,200
We support people who need it.
-Who say these things.

763
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:27,160
In Israel, there are many different
opinions on the future of the conflict.

764
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:32,440
You choose to support a certain opinion.
-Our support is independent of that.

765
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:36,120
But you are supporting it.
It amounts to the same thing.

766
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,560
You support the people
who hold these views...

767
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:47,240
even if you say you don't support them
because of those views.

768
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:51,080
That's what we do, indeed.
There's nothing wrong with that.

769
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:56,920
Because in Israel there are many opinions
about the future of the West Bank.

770
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:01,440
They believe it would be best
if Israel were in charge.

771
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,480
So, that's the conclusion.

772
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:08,920
It doesn't matter if she says that,
she can still expect money from CvI.

773
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,080
So, that's cleared now.

774
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,800
We've come to the point.
-Great.

775
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:19,440
Right? We have everything we needed.
We wanted to hear your reaction.

776
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:23,360
Have a good day.
-Thank you.

777
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:28,560
Is the wine from the occupied territories
sold here too? Why is that?

778
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:32,880
Is this part of the interview?
-Sure.

779
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,240
Because it's very tasty wine.
-Even if it's from occupied territory.

780
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:38,640
It's under dispute.
-It's occupied.

781
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:40,240
It's under dispute.
-Occupied.

782
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:44,640
There's a dispute, to be clear.
-Yes, but it's clearly occupied.

783
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:49,800
This is George Orwell 101.
If you want a draconian regime...

784
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:54,520
the first thing you do, is teach people
how to speak a new language.

785
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,520
It's the settler lingo,
the settler language.

786
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:03,360
As if ignoring the United Nations and all
the resolutions that passed since 1967.

787
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:10,720
So, Israel occupied these territories,
there are territories that are occupied.

788
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:16,680
Israel recognizes that this is occupied
territory in terms of international law.

789
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:21,520
It's not illegal to occupy a territory.
That's the key thing.

790
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:27,120
It's problematic, it should be temporary,
but it's not illegal to occupy land.

791
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:33,480
What is illegal, is to then send settlers
into the occupied territories and so on.

792
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:35,760
This is where we're going into legal...

793
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:40,960
One of the tactics of settlers to say
there's nothing problematic about it...

794
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:44,840
is to blur the fact
that this is occupied land.

795
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:50,720
So, this is again a type of debate
about terminology...

796
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:57,360
that appeared immediately after 1967,
disappeared and now reappears again...

797
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:03,280
in which the hawkish Israeli right
is saying: Don't call it occupied territory.

798
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,360
They'll call it disputed territory.

799
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:11,320
That's what the international community
says. It's simply in Area C...

800
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,200
which is under Israeli control
according to the Oslo Accords.

801
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:16,840
The wine's from that area.
-Which is occupied.

802
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,360
It's clearly labeled.
We have a booklet on the wine's origin.

803
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,240
Occupied territory.
-Disputed.

804
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:26,440
Does it taste well?
-It's delicious. Thank you.

805
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:37,160
She was consistent in what she told us,
but unclear, I think.

806
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:41,960
It's almost as if she wanted to convey
a different truth from the CvI website.

807
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:45,080
The things that were said
and we've discovered.

808
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:51,320
I think her main point is they can
give money to whomever they want.

809
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:55,600
That it doesn't matter what those people
believe or what world view they promote.

810
01:00:55,720 --> 01:01:00,080
They're not responsible
for what is done with the money.

811
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:04,160
Which, of course, is absurd. It means
you can say you're not responsible...

812
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:10,000
while giving tens of or even hundreds
of thousands of euros to extremist groups.

813
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:16,480
You can't just wash your hands of that,
while saying you support them.

814
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:20,160
I don't know what just happened there.

815
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:25,200
We'll go and review the facts again,
as we're wont to do.

816
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:31,920
In any case, we've learned that they'll be
talking to Naty Rom, whatever that means.

817
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:38,000
It didn't feel as if she took that
seriously. Let's see what she does.

818
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,760
She's going to call Roger van Oord.

819
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:48,880
I'm curious to see what will come of that.
As for the rest, you've said it all.

820
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:53,160
The question is how seriously
they're going to take this.

821
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:57,080
They have the same information we have.

822
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:02,120
It took us just a few days of googling
to find out what is going wrong.

823
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:06,800
Did they fail to do that? Or did they
do it, but then just ignored it?

824
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:08,360
That's also possible.

825
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:13,080
I think they have, because she just said
it doesn't matter what someone says.

826
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:16,200
They support all opinions and all views...

827
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:20,960
even if they are
as you just presented them.

828
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:25,120
On a closing note:
I hope that nothing happens to Jamal.

829
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:29,800
He contributed to this programme,
but is his safety now at risk?

830
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,720
He's aware, but we wish him all the best.

831
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:36,720
We don't tolerate
any antisemitism, islamophobia...

832
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:42,120
or other forms of discrimination
and racism in the comment section.

833
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:44,200
Please, refrain from that.

834
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:49,320
Stick to the facts and nothing
but the facts. This story requires it.

835
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:54,000
We don't want to seen any hateful stuff.

836
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:55,760
What a story.

837
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:06,680
I need the land.
I wish somebody could step in...

838
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:11,960
and help us with that,
to be able to go there...

839
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:17,120
but I know whether there's somebody
or not, or somebody can do it or not...

840
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:21,680
these people don't listen.
These settlers don't listen to nobody.

841
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:28,160
This entire movement is forbidden
under international law, so that's clear.

842
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:33,880
It's a bad thing. Palestinians
are suffering the most damage.

843
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:38,440
It is their land that is being taken.
It is their freedom of movement...

844
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:42,960
that is being restricted
in a very nasty and intrusive way.

845
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:46,400
So, that money is used
to violate human rights.

846
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:50,880
CvI has paused its support to Nati Rom,
pending further investigation.

847
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,800
Sara van Oordt,
CvI's media and communication manager...

848
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:57,120
has told the Nederlands Dagblad
and Investico...

849
01:03:57,240 --> 01:04:01,240
that support to Nati Rom has been
suspended, pending further investigation.

850
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:04,240
As for the new housing estate in Revava,
she says:

851
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:09,320
If it is proven that the houses are built
on the land of a Palestinian farmer...

852
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:12,160
we will make sure it is moved elsewhere.

853
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:16,920
CvI does not want to build on any land
that has been stolen.'

854
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:22,120
In a reaction, Roger van Oordt states that
Nati Rom could not have meant to say...

855
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:26,760
'that he received cash or any money
off the books, from either me or CvI.'

856
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:29,440
He writes that 'this never happened'.

857
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:35,320
Arjen Domburg writes
on behalf of Stichting Israël Heartland...

858
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:37,840
'that they never donated
money off the books....

859
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:40,200
or financed the purchase of weapons.'

860
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:44,520
'The work of undercover reporters
who lie about his indentity...

861
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,920
while inciting, manipulating
and pressuring'...

862
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:53,000
make it 'problematic to answer questions',
he maintains.

863
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:58,800
Nati Rom says that his foundation never
received money off the books, or cash...

864
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:02,400
from CvI, or people associated with CvI.

865
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:06,360
'They never donated money for weapons,
and they never will.

866
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:11,920
These are the facts. In all the work we
do, we follow Israeli law to the letter.'

867
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:23,520
If you found this video interesting,
subscribe to our channel.

868
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:26,200
It's free and keeps you up-to-date.

869
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:29,440
Every Tuesday,
we broadcast on this channel...

870
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:35,320
and every Thursday, on all other platforms
with RADIO BOOS, our podcast. See you.

871
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:38,920
There won't be a show next week,
but the week after that.

872
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:42,960
That has to do with the story that we're
airing that week. So, brace yourselves.