WEBVTT 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.320 I'm here with Sara van Oordt from Christians for Israel. 00:00:03.440 --> 00:00:08.800 Money from Christians for Israel helps to fund illegal settlements. 00:00:08.920 --> 00:00:13.960 This money may even buy weapons, as we discovered together with Investico. 00:00:17.080 --> 00:00:18.320 Right? 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:20.960 No. -Yes. 00:00:23.960 --> 00:00:25.440 Here we go. 00:00:25.560 --> 00:00:29.160 We can help people get pistol licenses. 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:36.520 He went there once and they tied him up and destroyed about 400 trees... 00:00:36.640 --> 00:00:38.040 while he was watching. 00:00:38.160 --> 00:00:44.200 Christian Zionism sees Jews only as instrumental. 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:48.160 And there's something anti-Semitic in that. 00:00:48.280 --> 00:00:54.000 If you transfer this amount, my advice is to use a neutral description. 00:00:54.120 --> 00:00:57.760 "Support for Judea and Samaria" or something like that. 00:00:57.880 --> 00:00:59.600 No, that isn't neutral. 00:00:59.720 --> 00:01:03.560 Is that wine from the territories sold here? -Yes. 00:01:03.680 --> 00:01:07.800 Why? -Because it's very good wine. 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:13.880 This is the land of Jamal Faris... 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:18.800 a Palestinian olive farmer in Deir Istiya on the West Bank. 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:23.400 The land has been owned by his family since the 1950s... 00:01:23.520 --> 00:01:25.360 but in the early 1990s... 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:31.360 a few white trailers appear on the edge of Jamal's land on Palestinian territory. 00:01:31.480 --> 00:01:37.680 These are houses of Israeli settlers, and they call their settlement Revava. 00:01:37.800 --> 00:01:42.280 Behind me in Nijkerk here is Christians for Israel's headquarters... 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:45.080 a Zionist Christian foundation. 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:50.960 In this broadcast, we'll explain the link between Jamal's land and this building. 00:01:51.080 --> 00:01:58.480 Jamal can't live and work normally on the West Bank due to the Revava settlers. 00:01:58.600 --> 00:02:03.680 The foundation in this Nijkerk building is one of the facilitators for this. 00:02:03.800 --> 00:02:07.440 Because we discovered with Investico and the Nederlands Dagblad newspaper... 00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:12.040 that Dutch Christian Zionist organizations contribute financially... 00:02:12.160 --> 00:02:16.960 to the expansion of illegal settlements on the West Bank. 00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:20.840 And this money can be used to bypass European sanctions... 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:23.720 or purchase weapons for settlers. 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:25.200 So pay attention. 00:02:30.160 --> 00:02:34.520 This story begins with Jamal, a Palestinian olive farmer. 00:02:34.640 --> 00:02:37.800 As we mentioned, Jamal has a problem. 00:02:37.920 --> 00:02:44.240 My name is Jamal Faris. I'm a Palestinian from the West Bank... 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:47.080 ...from a small town called Deir Istiya. 00:02:47.200 --> 00:02:49.240 I was a teacher. 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:56.080 And a farmer. I have an olive tree field. 00:02:57.880 --> 00:03:00.920 And we cannot take care of it right now. 00:03:01.040 --> 00:03:05.240 But why can't Jamal take care of his olive trees anymore? 00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:08.040 Here's a brief history lesson. 00:03:08.160 --> 00:03:12.640 After World War II, in 1948, the state of Israel is declared. 00:03:12.760 --> 00:03:15.160 Many Palestinians in this area... 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:20.120 are displaced and settle in Gaza and on the West Bank... 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:23.240 the area between Israel and the Jordan River. 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:28.960 The 1949 armistice created a border between Israel and the Palestinian territories. 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:34.640 This border, known as the Green Line, is still observed by the United Nations. 00:03:34.760 --> 00:03:42.760 But during the Six-Day War in 1967, Israel captured the West Bank. 00:03:42.880 --> 00:03:46.840 Israel has occupied the area to this day. 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:51.280 The Palestinian Authority has limited self-rule in Zones A and B... 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:53.520 as agreed in the Oslo Accords. 00:03:53.640 --> 00:03:57.800 The vast majority, zone C, is governed by Israel. 00:03:57.920 --> 00:04:01.960 However, this doesn't mean Israel can take the land. 00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:07.920 All Israeli settlements in occupied areas are illegal under international law. 00:04:08.040 --> 00:04:12.960 In July 2024, the International Court of Justice reaffirmed this. 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:18.160 It ruled that the settlements Israel built in the West Bank should not exist... 00:04:18.280 --> 00:04:23.040 and that Israel must withdraw its settlers from Palestinian territories. 00:04:23.160 --> 00:04:27.920 But Israeli settlers have been expanding their authority for decades... 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:31.640 by building more settlements on Palestinian land. 00:04:31.760 --> 00:04:37.720 Increasingly, settlers do this with the help of the Israeli army, using a lot of violence. 00:04:37.840 --> 00:04:41.640 Like Revava, right next to Jamal's olive grove. 00:04:41.760 --> 00:04:44.880 This field was actually planted... 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:53.600 by my father in 1956 and before the Israeli occupation in 1967. 00:04:54.600 --> 00:05:00.080 In 1991 the settlement started very small at the beginning... 00:05:00.200 --> 00:05:05.440 and started expanding, and now it's a big settlement. 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:12.800 It took all the land over there and they have their wall at the border of my land. 00:05:14.640 --> 00:05:18.840 We had a problem in the past twenty years taking care of that land... 00:05:18.960 --> 00:05:21.040 during my father's time. 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:28.440 He went there once and they tied him up and they destroyed about 400 trees... 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:30.480 while he was watching... 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:37.560 and they let the sewage come through our land and killed about 200 trees. 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:42.880 So now we don't have too much left, but we still have problems getting there... 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:45.320 to harvest our trees. 00:05:45.440 --> 00:05:49.800 I can't go by myself because I might get beaten or shot. 00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:53.480 Shortly after the ceasefire in Gaza last January... 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:58.080 the Israeli army launched a wide-scale offensive in the West Bank. 00:05:58.200 --> 00:06:02.240 Palestinians are driven away, attacked, and murdered. 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:06.160 Settler violence has also increased recently. 00:06:06.280 --> 00:06:09.960 Over a hundred incidents have been recorded since early last year. 00:06:10.080 --> 00:06:13.280 This is my land. I want to take care of it. 00:06:13.400 --> 00:06:16.840 I don't want to give it up. I want to... 00:06:16.960 --> 00:06:19.000 fix it... 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:22.760 or I will lose it. 00:06:22.880 --> 00:06:26.360 So with Investico and Nederlands Dagblad we investigated... 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:31.040 the Dutch Christian Zionist organisations contributing financially... 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:35.400 to making Jamal's life a misery, among other things. 00:06:35.520 --> 00:06:37.080 I'm Janneke Stegeman. 00:06:37.200 --> 00:06:41.360 I'm a theologian with a PhD on the Hebrew Bible... 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:45.800 and the relationship between identity and conflict in Hebrew texts... 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:52.320 such as the use of the Hebrew Bible in today's conflicts in Israel and Palestine. 00:06:52.440 --> 00:06:56.600 And I teach at VU University. -I'm Ari Dubnov, a historian. 00:06:56.720 --> 00:07:00.720 I was, born and raised and educated in Israel. 00:07:00.840 --> 00:07:07.040 I teach Israel studies and Middle Eastern studies at George Washington University. 00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:11.920 Zionism is a movement which states that Jews... 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:17.640 belong in Israel, seen as their historic homeland. 00:07:17.760 --> 00:07:24.160 Zionism started as Christian Zionism, specifically among Protestants in Europe. 00:07:24.280 --> 00:07:28.920 This was mainly in the Dutch Republic and also in England. 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:31.520 Even before the Zionist movement... 00:07:31.640 --> 00:07:35.560 before Herzl and people calling themselves Zionists... 00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:40.520 there were already Christian Zionists, so to speak, saying: 00:07:40.640 --> 00:07:43.720 "We envision the return of the Jews to the Holy Land... 00:07:43.840 --> 00:07:47.840 and then it will bring the second coming of Christ." 00:07:47.960 --> 00:07:50.920 Christians see Jesus as the Messiah... 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:55.600 who ascended to Heaven and will return on Judgment Day. 00:07:55.720 --> 00:08:00.760 This second coming of Christ involves various convictions. 00:08:00.880 --> 00:08:04.560 Including the return of all Jews to the Holy Land... 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:08.720 and converting to Christianity. 00:08:08.840 --> 00:08:14.720 These texts are largely set in Biblical Judea and Samaria... 00:08:14.840 --> 00:08:18.800 with Biblical places like East Jerusalem and Bethlehem. 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:25.040 So in the Biblical idea that Jews must return to the Holy Land... 00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:28.240 this area is a vital part of this land. 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:37.520 Shortly, we'll call a controversial Israeli settler in the West Bank. 00:08:37.640 --> 00:08:39.520 We'll discuss donating money... 00:08:39.640 --> 00:08:44.880 as Dutch donations play a significant part in this story. Attention. 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:56.840 Violating human rights and destroying Palestinian lives... 00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:01.800 has a very simple practical side: it requires money. 00:09:01.920 --> 00:09:08.160 We'll show you how this money flows and the crucial role of the Netherlands. 00:09:09.800 --> 00:09:13.880 How important are the Dutch for the Christian Friends of Israel? 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:15.960 Wonderful people, just wonderful. 00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:21.280 We love them deeply and the relationship is so strong. Friendship. 00:09:21.400 --> 00:09:25.120 You heard Sondra Baras speaking to our colleagues from Investico... 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:28.800 when they visited the West Bank last January. 00:09:28.920 --> 00:09:32.960 Baras is the founder and former director of the CFO-IC... 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:36.640 the Christian Friends of Israeli Communities. 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:42.600 This CFO-IC is an international Christian Zionist organization... 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:47.200 that coordinates projects in the settlements on the West Bank. 00:09:47.320 --> 00:09:51.120 The money CFO-IC receives from donors around the world... 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:55.640 flows through Baras to these settlements on the West Bank. 00:09:55.760 --> 00:10:00.160 These funds are used for community centers and clinics... 00:10:00.280 --> 00:10:03.920 but also on drones and bulletproof vests for settlers. 00:10:04.040 --> 00:10:06.640 Israel receives funds from around the world... 00:10:06.760 --> 00:10:12.160 but in financial aid to the settler movement, the Netherlands plays a key part. 00:10:12.280 --> 00:10:16.480 While the US is probably the primary financial contributor, says Baras... 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:20.040 the relationship with the Netherlands is also very close. 00:10:20.160 --> 00:10:25.360 Our partnership with Holland is vital. We work closely with Christians for Israel. 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:31.120 Christians for Israel, or CFI, has a turnover of 13 million euros. 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:34.400 It's the largest Christian Zionist foundation in the Netherlands... 00:10:34.520 --> 00:10:39.720 and supports projects on the West Bank, according to research by Investico. 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:44.520 CFI, based in Nijkerk, was founded in the 1980s... 00:10:44.640 --> 00:10:48.840 and mainly finds support within the orthodox-Protestant churches. 00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:50.480 CFI's mission is... 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:55.920 making Christians aware of the Jewish people's role in God's world plan. 00:10:56.040 --> 00:10:59.920 The foundation doesn't see the West Bank as occupied territory... 00:11:00.040 --> 00:11:05.400 but as the heart of Biblical Israel assigned to the Jewish people. 00:11:05.520 --> 00:11:10.960 CFI therefore does not use the term West Bank, but Judea and Samaria. 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:16.320 CFI's influence extends to the highest circles in American politics. 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:18.040 Listen to Leon Meijer... 00:11:18.160 --> 00:11:24.120 former board member of the Christian Union Party and current CFI international chair. 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:30.320 Mr. Meijer, you were at Mar-a-Lago not too long ago. Why were you there? 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:35.440 There was a Jerusalem Prayer Breakfast, a gathering for Jerusalem's peace. 00:11:35.560 --> 00:11:40.280 And the organization had discussed this with Trump. 00:11:40.400 --> 00:11:43.800 "Can we hold this prayer meeting at your estate?" 00:11:43.920 --> 00:11:48.160 He replied, "Jerusalem is close to my heart. I've moved the American embassy there... 00:11:48.280 --> 00:11:52.000 so I invite you to have the prayer meeting on the estate." 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:54.560 A remarkable choice, I think. -Yes. 00:11:54.680 --> 00:11:59.480 CFI has its own newspaper, talk show, and retail company... 00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:04.800 called Israel Products Center, offering goods from the... 00:12:04.920 --> 00:12:09.160 as they call it, "Promised Land", including the occupied territories. 00:12:09.280 --> 00:12:14.840 There's also a business club with over 300 entrepreneurs. 00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:18.960 CFI also organizes trips to Israel for volunteers and... 00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:22.440 in line with the orthodox-Protestant Zionist body of thought... 00:12:22.560 --> 00:12:27.280 helps Jewish people from around the world with "aliyah": 00:12:27.400 --> 00:12:31.400 The return to the promised land. 00:12:31.520 --> 00:12:34.600 They're going to build up a new life in Israel. 00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:39.240 It makes me think of Isaiah 43, where the Lord says: 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:43.880 "Bring my sons and bring my daughters home from far away." 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:48.680 These young Jewish children between 13 and 17 years... 00:12:48.800 --> 00:12:55.480 are the young new sons and daughters that we may bring back to the land of Israel. 00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:57.760 You could say... 00:12:57.880 --> 00:13:01.920 that one of the problems with Christian Zionism... 00:13:02.040 --> 00:13:05.560 is that they see Jews only instrumentally. 00:13:05.680 --> 00:13:09.200 And I think there's something anti-Semitic in that. 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:13.360 So it's not interest in Jews as Jews see themselves... 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:17.840 but only in Jews as they fit into the Christian story. 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:23.400 It's a problematic vision as Jews are just seen as means to an end. 00:13:23.520 --> 00:13:28.160 They are actually the small chess pieces. 00:13:28.280 --> 00:13:33.520 They're the soldiers you sacrifice on your way to a bigger vision. 00:13:33.640 --> 00:13:40.120 With all those donations, CFI realizes projects in what they call Judea and Samaria. 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:43.800 In other words, on Palestinian territory. 00:13:43.920 --> 00:13:47.480 And this is in conflict with Dutch policy. 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:51.080 The Dutch government supports a two-state solution... 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:55.040 viewing Israeli settlements in occupied Palestinian territories... 00:13:55.160 --> 00:13:59.800 as illegal and peace-threatening. 00:13:59.920 --> 00:14:04.880 But in CFI's monthly newspaper, another reality seems to be presented. 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:07.080 For there, we read this: 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:12.440 In December 2024, CFI contributed to the construction of a retirement home... 00:14:12.560 --> 00:14:14.760 for stationed Israeli soldiers. 00:14:14.880 --> 00:14:18.600 In 2022, to a scouting club in East Talpiot... 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:22.120 and in that same year, the Israel Products Center in the Netherlands... 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:26.480 donated their store profits to a winemaker in Kiryat Arba... 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:28.720 a settlement near Hebron. 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:34.120 Jewish people brought to Israel by the First Home in the Homeland program... 00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:38.360 are also being settled by CFI on the West Bank... 00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:42.240 as we read in blogs on the Christians for Israel website... 00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:44.920 which is CFI's international branch. 00:14:45.040 --> 00:14:48.440 Some CFI funds bound for the West Bank... 00:14:48.560 --> 00:14:54.200 go to the Christian Friends of Israeli Communities we mentioned before. 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:57.520 And this brings us back to Jamal. 00:14:57.640 --> 00:15:03.760 For, in 2023, CFOIC director Sondra Baras thanks CFI Holland... 00:15:03.880 --> 00:15:09.760 for a major contribution to the security system of a new residential area in Revava. 00:15:09.880 --> 00:15:14.160 The existence of Reviva and its expansion has direct consequences... 00:15:14.280 --> 00:15:20.360 for the Palestinians who own and cultivate the adjoining land, including Jamal. 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:24.720 Part of his land next to the illegal settlement of Revava's wall... 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:27.600 is too dangerous for him to enter. 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:31.840 Even reaching his own land has been made impossible for him. 00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:38.160 I used to go from this town to my field straightforward in the car... 00:15:38.280 --> 00:15:44.000 but when they built the settlement, it's an obstacle between my town and my field. 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:47.000 It's in the middle, actually. 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:53.080 We have to go through it and now we're not allowed to go through the settlement. 00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:54.960 I can't get close to it. 00:15:55.080 --> 00:16:00.480 Please go up. It's not by distance 40 meters up. 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:05.480 What if you just keep two soldiers to protect us here and just finish it? 00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:10.400 What's the deal? Why? It's no big issue. 00:16:11.640 --> 00:16:14.680 We're peaceful people, just here to pick olives... 00:16:14.800 --> 00:16:17.200 and we have trouble even using roads. 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:21.400 So now we have to make a big circle all the way to the west... 00:16:21.520 --> 00:16:24.360 taking bad roads, not active streets. 00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:28.840 It's just roads they use for animals. 00:16:30.280 --> 00:16:34.880 And it takes two hours for me to get to my field. 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:39.840 If it was free like before I could drive my car... 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:44.640 and just within a few minutes, if I have that big field... 00:16:44.760 --> 00:16:49.200 we could be making good money out of it from that oil. 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:53.360 But now we lost that chance. 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:56.640 Those 800 trees that we've had... 00:16:56.760 --> 00:17:00.480 they could make maybe three, four tons of oil... 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:04.960 and that was ten, fifteen, twenty thousand dollars. 00:17:07.120 --> 00:17:11.240 Now we don't have that chance. How can we live without money? 00:17:11.360 --> 00:17:17.200 Attention. We read something else in the Christians for Israel newspaper. 00:17:17.320 --> 00:17:22.880 After October 7th, 2023, Christians for Israel creates an emergency fund. 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:29.080 Part of the donations collected by CFI through this fund goes to Or Ami... 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:35.400 a foundation set up by settler activist and lawyer Nati Rom. Remember that name. 00:17:35.520 --> 00:17:40.360 Nati Rom regularly visits the Netherlands at the invitation of CFI... 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:45.760 and even set up a foundation here: The Israel Heartland Foundation. 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:48.520 This is Nati Rom. Attention. 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:51.240 Shalom friends from Jabalia. 00:17:51.360 --> 00:17:56.320 Shabbat shalom to our friends worldwide. With God's help, we'll win. 00:17:57.360 --> 00:18:01.840 We will do it together with the rabbi over there. 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:04.920 We do whatever we can to wreak redemption here in Jabalia. 00:18:05.080 --> 00:18:10.560 As written in here: Shabbat shalom from the heartland of Israel. 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:16.160 Rom supports demonstrators who attacked aid convoys at the Gaza border... 00:18:16.280 --> 00:18:22.040 and defends IDF soldiers standing trial for systematic rape of Palestinian prisoners. 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:27.160 His third specialty is applying for and defending weapon permits. 00:18:27.280 --> 00:18:31.800 When not aiding settlers, he serves as an Israeli army reservist. 00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:35.080 Rom is seen in videos with night vision drones... 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:38.480 a new watchtower for an army base on the West Bank... 00:18:38.600 --> 00:18:42.760 and a group of heavily armed men he seems to be training. 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:48.800 For drones and watchtower purchases, Dutch donors are thanked on the blog. 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:53.080 But where Rom got the weapons from, is unclear. 00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:56.280 Arjen Domburg, chairman of the Israel Heartland Foundation... 00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:58.440 and Nati Rom's right-hand man in the Netherlands... 00:18:58.560 --> 00:19:02.040 doesn't seem to know where all donations go. 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:07.880 Days after the shooting men video, Domburg writes this. 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.840 "Equipment has been bought for the villages' security. 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:19.000 What, where and how isn't exactly clear, but a lot of equipment has been bought." 00:19:19.120 --> 00:19:25.280 Of course we had many questions, but Rom won't answer Investico. 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:31.840 So, we decided together with our colleagues from Investico to take a different approach. 00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:37.160 We created the character Albert Dijkstra, played by Allard from Investico. 00:19:37.280 --> 00:19:41.640 Dijkstra, from Drachtsercompagnie, has inherited money from his mother... 00:19:41.760 --> 00:19:47.960 and wants to donate 15,000 to 20,000 euros to Rom's Dutch foundation. 00:19:48.080 --> 00:19:53.120 We tell this story to the Israel Heartland Foundation chairman, Arjen Domburg. 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:56.240 As Rom's Dutch right-hand man... 00:19:56.360 --> 00:20:02.320 ...he can tell us more about the exact destination of the Dutch money. 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:07.000 And we might also learn more... 00:20:07.120 --> 00:20:12.120 about Christians for Israel's financial flows. 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:14.800 The conversation with Domburg starts like this. 00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:17.600 Good morning, this is Albert Dijkstra. 00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:21.440 Good morning. -Hi. Thanks for calling. 00:20:21.560 --> 00:20:28.880 I can imagine it's difficult for Mr. Rom over there and also for you... 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:35.080 to get funding for the "heavier" stuff. 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:36.720 So as far as I am concerned... 00:20:36.840 --> 00:20:42.160 if it's about equipment or weapons... 00:20:42.280 --> 00:20:46.240 ...I'm fine with all of it. I'll help if needed. 00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:52.520 No, we don't actually do those kinds of things. 00:20:53.800 --> 00:20:58.760 I mean, weapons aren't just sold on the nearest street corner in Israel. 00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:02.000 Another thing. You mentioned those newsletters... 00:21:02.120 --> 00:21:08.640 with a summary of what you've been doing over the past few months, the past year. 00:21:08.760 --> 00:21:10.920 Are they on your website? 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:15.320 No, because sometimes the newsletters contain stuff... 00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:18.800 we'd rather not publish. 00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:22.120 Right, I see. 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:26.640 Domburg isn't showing all his cards yet, but we also ask him: 00:21:26.760 --> 00:21:31.840 "Our donation will be substantial. Can we talk to Nati Rom himself?" 00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:32.760 It works. 00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:38.360 I think it's best if I contact Nati... 00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:44.680 to discuss this matter. 00:21:44.800 --> 00:21:50.160 And then I'll send you an email. Is that a good idea? 00:21:50.280 --> 00:21:52.960 Yes, that is a good idea. 00:21:53.080 --> 00:21:58.920 This is where it gets interesting. Domburg puts us in contact with Nati Rom. 00:21:59.040 --> 00:22:05.360 Nati Rom is a key figure in a network of controversial West Bank settlers. 00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:10.880 His Or Ami foundation collaborates with the Dutch Israel Heartland Foundation... 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:15.280 but also receives money from Christians for Israel's emergency fund. 00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:19.120 We agree to call him two days later. 00:22:25.520 --> 00:22:29.640 Hi. Good afternoon. -Good afternoon. 00:22:29.760 --> 00:22:34.360 First, Rom tells us that he uses food vouchers for sanctioned settlers... 00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:36.520 for other purposes too. 00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:40.080 Between you and me, we don't know each other yet... 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:44.040 but this is the reason I use the food cards, because it's not only food... 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:49.480 it's the card that they can use in one hundred main stores in Israel. 00:22:49.600 --> 00:22:54.840 They can also buy a tool, working tool. There's a lot of options. 00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:58.640 Okay, so they can use the card how they want... 00:22:58.760 --> 00:23:05.480 even if they have trouble with the what's it called the sanctions or... 00:23:05.600 --> 00:23:08.520 Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, yes. 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:16.320 If you work with any of the people that were attacked by the EU or the US, I would... 00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:24.400 I am. I represent them in court and also we are supporting them in their places for sure. 00:23:24.520 --> 00:23:29.320 Then it's on to our donation. How would Rom like to receive that money? 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:33.640 Through the Israel Heartland Foundation or is cash preferred? 00:23:33.760 --> 00:23:36.960 Cash is always the best. For example... 00:23:37.080 --> 00:23:41.800 ...there's people who are stuck with the sanction. 00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:45.480 For them, cash is the best. 00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:49.280 So we do for them the food card. 00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:53.240 But also the foundation is okay. Yes, we have our ways. 00:23:53.360 --> 00:23:56.080 Okay, so cash is the best. 00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:01.320 But what is Nati Rom actually going to do with our cash? Here's the answer. 00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:05.000 We can help people get licenses for pistols. 00:24:05.120 --> 00:24:08.920 We can also subsidize the price. 00:24:09.040 --> 00:24:15.280 To subsidize for people who want to buy, to subsidize the price, this can be. 00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:22.040 How much will it cost to subsidize also a pistol or a firearm? Does that, is that...? 00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:23.280 It depends on us. 00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:29.760 Let's say a firearm here will cost something like 3000 or 4000. It depends. 00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:33.760 And so it depends on us also how much... 00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:37.200 I think you don't need to subsidize everything. 00:24:37.320 --> 00:24:41.440 Just half or three quarters or something like that. 00:24:41.560 --> 00:24:43.120 Perfect. 00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:49.560 And then if I send the money... if I do it via Heartland here... 00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.480 that will get to you...? 00:24:52.600 --> 00:24:53.560 Yeah. -Okay. 00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:57.600 Arjen is an amazing person... 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:03.960 with giving not only his time, but everything for this. It's amazing. 00:25:04.080 --> 00:25:05.360 Yes. 00:25:05.480 --> 00:25:07.960 Right. With the money we donate to him... 00:25:08.080 --> 00:25:11.960 Nati Rom can finance weapons for settlers. 00:25:12.080 --> 00:25:15.600 And although Arjen Domburg previously denied this... 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:21.440 Rom says this can be done through Israel Heartland Foundation in the Netherlands. 00:25:21.560 --> 00:25:25.360 Then Nati Rom suddenly starts talking about Roger van Oordt... 00:25:25.480 --> 00:25:28.880 the former director of Christians for Israel. 00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:33.520 Roger van Oordt is a very good friend of mine. 00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:36.680 He came to my place like twenty times. 00:25:36.800 --> 00:25:39.840 We're very connected, I love him very much. 00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:44.400 He's a great person, but for years... 00:25:44.520 --> 00:25:49.320 his organization rather give millions to projects like... 00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:55.360 building the windmill in Jerusalem and flowers... 00:25:55.480 --> 00:26:00.160 and they didn't want to be connected because they were afraid. 00:26:00.280 --> 00:26:06.360 And when he was helping me it was in a small amount and secretly. 00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:11.640 This is one of the things I'm saying. From time to time he used to help us... 00:26:11.760 --> 00:26:15.800 but secretly. He has his way how to do it. 00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:18.880 But for what I do, for what I want, I don't do flowers. 00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:22.920 Okay, Nati Rom doesn't do flowers. 00:26:23.040 --> 00:26:26.480 And CFI found donating as a foundation difficult... 00:26:26.600 --> 00:26:31.480 but luckily the director of CFI himself came by with cash. 00:26:31.600 --> 00:26:33.920 But why is that such a smart idea? 00:26:34.040 --> 00:26:38.280 If I could help you do most of it off the books... 00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:42.960 you can spend it more easily on subsidising pistols and stuff... 00:26:43.080 --> 00:26:46.040 because otherwise that would be difficult, or what? 00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:50.200 It's always easier in the other way. 00:26:50.320 --> 00:26:53.000 Yeah, okay. -God bless you. Thank you so much. 00:26:53.120 --> 00:26:55.520 Good luck, please stay safe, okay? 00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:02.280 Oh, my God. Funding pistols is possible. 00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:04.600 How about calling Arjen Domburg now? 00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:10.920 So in summary, Nati Rom wants to take our money and can buy weapons with it too. 00:27:11.040 --> 00:27:15.400 He prefers to get money off the books, like Roger van Oordt did it... 00:27:15.520 --> 00:27:18.680 but the Heartland Foundation works as well. 00:27:18.800 --> 00:27:23.280 We decide to call chairman Arjen Domburg again with this good news. 00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:27.440 Is he still on board with this info in his pocket? 00:27:28.320 --> 00:27:30.000 Arjen Domburg speaking. 00:27:30.120 --> 00:27:32.560 Hi, good afternoon. -Good afternoon. 00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:37.800 Hi. I just called Nati. -Oh, nice. 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:43.200 It was really a great conversation. 00:27:43.320 --> 00:27:46.760 I'm really impressed. 00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:52.080 Nati and I decided together it would be best... 00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:59.960 ...if the money could be spent on cameras for those families or communities. 00:28:01.040 --> 00:28:04.520 He also talked about firearm and quad subsidies. 00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:11.880 Nati said the easiest way is to just transfer it to the Heartland Foundation. 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:14.760 We could do it early next week. 00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:21.320 So you can forward it right away and ensure it goes to those three things? 00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:25.240 I'll send the whole amount all at once. 00:28:25.360 --> 00:28:31.640 I'll forward it to Nati's foundation. Then he can access it directly. 00:28:31.760 --> 00:28:38.800 If you transfer this sum, my advice would be to use a neutral description. 00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:45.880 Like "support for Judea and Samaria" or something. 00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:48.280 I wouldn't mention that. -No? 00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:50.440 No, that's not neutral. 00:28:51.840 --> 00:28:58.280 I would just say "support Nati Rom" or "N. Rom" or "support..." 00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:03.080 Or maybe just in Dutch, to let sleeping dogs lie. 00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:10.040 Last time you mentioned 15,000 to 20,000 euros. I wouldn't take that out in cash... 00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:11.920 and get on a plane. 00:29:12.040 --> 00:29:16.240 Right. What kind of expenses are best in cash? 00:29:16.360 --> 00:29:22.000 The kind of things we just talked about. 00:29:22.120 --> 00:29:26.920 Those are the... How can I put it? 00:29:27.040 --> 00:29:31.720 The more difficult cases where no one wants to leave any traces. 00:29:31.840 --> 00:29:34.480 The roads, the weapons, that kind of thing. 00:29:34.600 --> 00:29:36.320 I think so. 00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:42.360 Christians of Israel, with the Van Oord family... 00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:47.080 they have much more cash available because of their collection money. 00:29:48.320 --> 00:29:51.000 Yes, I see. 00:29:52.040 --> 00:29:56.040 Like Nati... I remember a few years ago. 00:29:57.800 --> 00:30:02.840 I think was the first time I met him. He gave three talks for Christians from Israel. 00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:08.320 There were three collections, and in one church, 500 people attended. 00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:11.760 Then the cash adds up quickly. 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:15.680 And then you get to take the stationery. 00:30:15.800 --> 00:30:19.800 You know we're a Public Benefit Organization? 00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:22.960 So tax-wise that's also interesting. 00:30:23.080 --> 00:30:26.360 So what can we conclude from this? 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:31.120 1: Nati Rom can help settlers in illegal settlements to get weapons... 00:30:31.240 --> 00:30:36.600 and ensure they're untraceable. This can be done with Dutch money. 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:39.040 2: Donations from the Heartland Foundation... 00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:43.800 are sometimes brought to Israel in cash for "difficult" purchases. 00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:48.960 3: Roger van Oordt, a member of the CFI family for 45 years... 00:30:49.080 --> 00:30:51.320 is good friends with Nati Rom... 00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:57.040 and has occasionally made secret and off-the-books donations when visiting Rom. 00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:02.880 4: CFI held multiple collections at gatherings where Nati Rom spoke in the Netherlands... 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:05.840 and gave him the cash. 00:31:05.960 --> 00:31:10.600 5: With the food cards for which Nati Rom collected money... 00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:16.960 sanctioned settlers could not only buy food but also purchase other items. 00:31:17.080 --> 00:31:22.960 In this way, EU sanctions on those settlers could be bypassed. 00:31:23.080 --> 00:31:28.640 Ivo Amar, a sanction law specialist, says this: 00:31:28.760 --> 00:31:33.000 Economic resources means essentially everything that has value. 00:31:33.120 --> 00:31:39.280 It can be a food voucher or a gift card, even a car. 00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:45.880 Basically anything movable, immovable, even intangible... 00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:50.760 that represents any value, so even a service... 00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:56.080 ...may not be provided to such a settler. 00:31:57.800 --> 00:32:01.440 That would be a criminal offense. 00:32:01.560 --> 00:32:03.400 I'm also a Christian... 00:32:03.520 --> 00:32:10.240 so let's say it's a Christian value to treat others as you wish to be treated. 00:32:10.360 --> 00:32:16.840 I think it's harsh that Palestinians are totally absent from this story. 00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:22.280 While all our eyes are set on Gaza for obvious reasons... 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:25.920 on the other hand, it allows the settlers in the West Bank... 00:32:26.040 --> 00:32:28.400 what they call Judea and Samaria... 00:32:28.520 --> 00:32:34.040 to do what is practically an ethnic cleansing that no one is paying attention to. 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:38.360 So the idea is that God promised the land to the Jews... 00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:41.560 and the Palestinians, as original inhabitants... 00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:47.480 have to go and live in another Arab country. 00:32:47.600 --> 00:32:53.040 It shows that Christian Zionism is always connected with colonialism. 00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:58.680 They're building up more houses, and somebody is helping them, I guess... 00:32:58.800 --> 00:33:01.600 sending them money to expand. 00:33:01.720 --> 00:33:06.600 I wish these settlements will be dismantled and leave. 00:33:07.800 --> 00:33:11.960 Because as long as they are there, they will keep bothering us... 00:33:12.080 --> 00:33:14.520 and they will keep expanding. 00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:20.680 They should stop, because we are humans too. We are natives here. 00:33:20.800 --> 00:33:26.520 You are encouraging this town, this settlement, to expand... 00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:33.600 and take our land. It's our land for thousands of years, that field. 00:33:36.280 --> 00:33:39.960 <i>Dutch Faces Behind Settlement</i> "This is Settlers' Language." 00:33:50.520 --> 00:33:53.480 We're headed to Christians for Israel, in this building, 00:33:53.600 --> 00:33:56.280 Obviously, we have some questions. 00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:59.840 Before we get there, we first want to show you... 00:33:59.960 --> 00:34:05.360 who's behind Christians for Israel and the route to this discussion. 00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:09.360 Christians for Israel is run by the Van Oordt family. 00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:12.600 Frank van Oordt, son of founder Karel van Oordt... 00:34:12.720 --> 00:34:15.640 has led the foundation since 2020. 00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:20.600 Frank succeeded his brother Roger van Oordt, whom you heard of earlier. 00:34:20.720 --> 00:34:24.480 Roger led Christians for Israel for nearly 30 years. 00:34:24.600 --> 00:34:26.200 He now has a new position... 00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:30.600 as honorary consul of the State of Israel in the Netherlands. 00:34:30.720 --> 00:34:33.680 This means he assists Dutch nationals abroad... 00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:37.000 and looks after Dutch trade interests in Israel. 00:34:37.120 --> 00:34:42.680 According to Nati Rom, Roger allegedly smuggled cash to the West Bank. 00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:48.160 Then there's Sara van Oordt, married to the founder's grandson. 00:34:48.280 --> 00:34:55.200 She's CFI's head of media and communication and hosts their talk show. 00:34:55.320 --> 00:35:01.440 It's 2025 and Israel has been at war for 458 days now. 00:35:01.560 --> 00:35:06.440 In the 2023 elections, she was a candidate for the Christian Union Party. 00:35:06.560 --> 00:35:13.840 We first call Frank, the foundation's director, to discuss our findings. 00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:18.800 You're saying quite something there. 00:35:18.920 --> 00:35:23.920 But what you're saying isn't true at all. -What isn't true? 00:35:24.040 --> 00:35:29.640 You're saying we finance illegal settlements. 00:35:32.040 --> 00:35:36.080 You're saying we finance those. That's not true at all. 00:35:36.200 --> 00:35:41.080 I think you should call our spokesperson. 00:35:41.200 --> 00:35:44.880 So who should I call? -Sara van Oort. 00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:48.560 Frank directs us to Sara and we call her. 00:35:48.680 --> 00:35:53.840 She needs some time but calls back later. She wants to come and talk. 00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:58.240 Okay, great. Let's arrange that. Tuesday at 10 o'clock. 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:02.760 Hi. Hello. -Welcome. 00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:06.440 Tim. Nice to meet you. -Sara. 00:36:06.560 --> 00:36:08.880 Welcome to the center. -Thank you. 00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:12.920 Can we put the camera on the shoulder? -Sure. 00:36:13.040 --> 00:36:16.960 We'd like to discuss some things you fund. 00:36:17.080 --> 00:36:23.240 Starting with Revava. In 2022, you supported the construction of a new neighborhood. 00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:25.520 How much did you contribute? 00:36:25.640 --> 00:36:28.240 We sponsored twelve houses there. 00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:34.040 Temporary homes that are also movable. They were 25,000 euros each. 00:36:34.160 --> 00:36:38.040 Why did you choose to donate specifically to this project? 00:36:38.160 --> 00:36:41.160 We've supported many projects for years. 00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:44.840 It was a project at the start of the Ukraine crisis... 00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:50.520 when Ukrainian refugees flooded into the Netherlands as well as Israel. 00:36:50.640 --> 00:36:54.720 In Israel, they were housed in places including Revava. 00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:59.120 And why was the choice made to locate it in that neighborhood? 00:36:59.240 --> 00:37:05.000 The municipality chose that. It's within municipal boundaries, so they decide. 00:37:05.120 --> 00:37:08.160 They had space for twelve little houses. 00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:12.480 So it's not a whole neighborhood, just twelve temporary homes. 00:37:12.600 --> 00:37:15.480 They were built under Israeli law... 00:37:15.600 --> 00:37:19.320 partly on land from a Palestinian from the nearby village of Deir Istiya... 00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:24.120 and partly on land managed by Israel without permission given. 00:37:24.240 --> 00:37:30.280 Nearby buildings are under demolition order by the Israeli government. 00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:33.240 Specifically for this neigborhood? -Yes. 00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:36.400 You didn't know this? -I wasn't aware of it. 00:37:36.520 --> 00:37:39.480 Is that checked before you finance a neighborhood? 00:37:39.600 --> 00:37:45.000 We always consult the local municipality for suitable locations. 00:37:45.120 --> 00:37:51.640 And they said, "This area is in Zone C under the Oslo Accords." 00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:57.160 It's under Israeli administration, and they chose this area. 00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:01.640 Israeli administration doesn't mean it's Israeli land. You know that. 00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:03.760 That's disputed. 00:38:03.880 --> 00:38:07.960 You're the ones disputing it. Legally, it's true. 00:38:08.080 --> 00:38:12.320 Can you repeat the question? -It wasn't a question. I provided information. 00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:14.920 You say it's disputed, but you're disputing it. 00:38:15.040 --> 00:38:19.800 It's under Israeli military law, but Israel can't just take the land. 00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:25.520 That's not entirely true. The Oslo Accords were signed in the 1990s. 00:38:25.640 --> 00:38:31.600 Zones A, B, and C were agreed upon. C is under Israeli administration. 00:38:31.720 --> 00:38:33.320 Military administration? 00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:37.480 Yes, but also civilian administration, because Israelis live there. 00:38:37.600 --> 00:38:39.400 A is under Palestinian control. 00:38:39.520 --> 00:38:44.560 B is under shared control. There, military law applies, but not in C. 00:38:44.680 --> 00:38:49.680 The idea about the C area is that it's controlled fully by Israel... 00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:54.680 in terms of its police and military... 00:38:54.800 --> 00:39:01.520 not in terms of the way you run the land there. 00:39:01.640 --> 00:39:07.880 The Israeli parliament never passed a law saying area C is Israeli territory. 00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:11.560 So that's part of what's going on here. 00:39:11.680 --> 00:39:14.880 As we've seen now... 00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:23.240 contributing to the expansion of Israeli settlements is a violation of international law. 00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:26.560 According to the Oslo Accords, Israel has the right... 00:39:26.680 --> 00:39:30.520 They're a basis for a final agreement. 00:39:30.640 --> 00:39:32.680 Which hasn't been reached. -Unfortunately, not yet. 00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:36.480 Which means that the West Bank... -Is disputed. 00:39:36.600 --> 00:39:39.040 Can be governed by the Israelis... 00:39:39.160 --> 00:39:42.000 but it doesn't mean Palestinian land must be given up. 00:39:42.120 --> 00:39:45.920 Conflicts happen and they also go to court. 00:39:46.040 --> 00:39:52.440 If it turns out that the land is in fact owned by Palestinians... 00:39:52.560 --> 00:39:57.120 the court will rule that those settlements must be cleared. 00:39:57.240 --> 00:40:00.160 It has happened before. It will happen again. 00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:07.480 I've checked whether there is a claim on Revava. 00:40:07.600 --> 00:40:10.600 There is, but it has never been to court. 00:40:10.720 --> 00:40:16.240 There are many conflicts in the West Bank in the C area where Israel is in control... 00:40:16.360 --> 00:40:18.800 where Palestinians say the land is ours. 00:40:18.920 --> 00:40:23.720 So they go to court, and yes, lawsuits do drag on. 00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:29.160 Sometimes the ruling is in favor of Israel, sometimes of Palestinians. 00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:34.840 Just to be clear, the homes in question in Revava are illegal under Israeli law. 00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:36.240 This is documented... 00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:42.360 and these buildings received a demolition order from the Israeli authorities in 2022. 00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:48.360 That's the issue here. 00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:52.280 You still believe it's morally justified to support this. 00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:54.560 It's under Israeli administration. 00:40:54.680 --> 00:41:01.840 Israel is a democratic state of law and land conflicts are decided in court. 00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:08.320 And if the land is not Israel's but belongs to Palestinians, we'll relocate those homes. 00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:12.040 Is that a deal? -We simply adhere to the law. 00:41:12.160 --> 00:41:18.680 Revava's existence and expansion directly impacts Palestinians with land next to it. 00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:23.080 One is Jamal Faris, a Palestinian olive farmer from Deir Istiya. 00:41:23.200 --> 00:41:28.840 His land borders directly on the wall of the illegal settlement of Revava. 00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:34.360 It's too dangerous for him to access. He can hardly reach his own land. 00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:37.960 We have an audio clip. 00:41:38.080 --> 00:41:43.840 He went there once and they tied him up and destroyed about 400 trees... 00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:45.320 while he was watching. 00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:50.000 So now we don't have too much left, but we still have problems getting there... 00:41:50.120 --> 00:41:53.320 to harvest our trees. 00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:58.240 I can't go by myself because I might get beaten or shot. 00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:01.280 That's the situation for him and other Palestinians in the area. 00:42:01.400 --> 00:42:03.240 Does this affect you? -It affects me a lot. 00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:08.040 Will it impact funds to Revava from Christians for Israel? 00:42:08.160 --> 00:42:11.640 It affects me greatly, the suffering. I want to emphasize that. 00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:18.680 If it turns out our sponsored houses shouldn't be there... 00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:23.320 we'll relocate them, but we'll investigate this thoroughly. 00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:29.480 We owe responsibility to our donors. I must explain our financial spending to them. 00:42:29.600 --> 00:42:32.920 So you promise to thoroughly investigate this? 00:42:33.040 --> 00:42:39.000 And if according to international law it's wrong to displace these Palestinians... 00:42:39.120 --> 00:42:41.720 your foundation will pull out? -Of course. 00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:45.080 Let's talk about Nati Rom. -I know him. 00:42:45.200 --> 00:42:49.840 Nati Rom gave three talks in the Netherlands in June 2022. 00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:55.120 Collections were made when Nati Rom spoke here... 00:42:55.240 --> 00:43:00.080 at your invitation. You gave him the cash money. 00:43:00.200 --> 00:43:05.360 Why did that money go to Nati Rom? -I don't recall. When was this? 00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:08.560 2022. -I don't remember exactly. 00:43:08.680 --> 00:43:14.040 I'd have to check. But we did sponsor him immediately after October 7th. 00:43:14.160 --> 00:43:17.800 So money went to Or Ami from your emergency fund? 00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:20.320 But in 2022, we didn't yet have an emergency fund. 00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:25.360 That was in 2023, but in 2022 you gave the collection money to Rom. 00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:28.360 It's all recorded. We don't just hand over an envelope. 00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:31.680 Nothing off the books? -Of course not. 00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:38.080 Let's start with that cash money in '22 that went to Nati Rom. Want was that meant for? 00:43:38.200 --> 00:43:40.000 I'd have to check. 00:43:40.120 --> 00:43:45.600 Why donate to Or Ami, to his foundation, from the emergency fund? 00:43:45.720 --> 00:43:50.120 We donate to many organizations. -Yes. 00:43:50.240 --> 00:43:55.400 We list about 20 on our website, I think. -What are the conditions? 00:43:55.520 --> 00:43:58.760 Conditions for...? -For receiving money from you. 00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:00.840 The conditions are... 00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:06.000 After October 7th, the Hamas massacre, we saw Israel in need. 00:44:06.120 --> 00:44:10.560 We set up an emergency fund to support people with food parcels... 00:44:10.680 --> 00:44:13.480 emergency kits and also security. 00:44:13.600 --> 00:44:21.440 We sponsored a number of shelters for people seeking refuge in bunkers. 00:44:21.560 --> 00:44:25.080 The condition is that it must fit our policy. 00:44:25.200 --> 00:44:27.800 We want to give humanitarian aid... 00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:33.760 and support people, both Jews and Palestinians, with food aid, for instance. 00:44:33.880 --> 00:44:39.480 Are there limits you won't cross? Things your foundation shouldn't do? 00:44:39.600 --> 00:44:42.320 There are many things a foundation shouldn't do. 00:44:42.440 --> 00:44:45.280 We're against violence, so we don't support violence. 00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:51.160 Would you indirectly fund weapons? -Neither directly nor indirectly. No way. 00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:53.320 Then I'd like to play you something. 00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:58.000 We can help people get licenses for pistols. 00:44:58.120 --> 00:45:02.600 We can also subsidize the price. 00:45:02.720 --> 00:45:08.280 To subsidize for people who want to buy, to subsidize the price, this can be. 00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:15.000 How much would it cost to subsidize also a pistol or a firearm? 00:45:15.120 --> 00:45:16.400 It depends on us. 00:45:16.520 --> 00:45:22.560 Let's say a firearm here will cost something like 3000 or 4000. It depends. 00:45:22.680 --> 00:45:24.840 Do you get what's being said? 00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:28.840 That you could subsidize a weapon or something, right? 00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:33.080 With donated money. -But not from Christians for Israel. 00:45:33.200 --> 00:45:36.400 That is the question. -That is the answer. 00:45:36.520 --> 00:45:38.200 Are you sure? 00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:40.240 I'm 100% sure. -How do you know? 00:45:40.360 --> 00:45:46.640 It goes against our policy. Donations are earmarked for specific goals. 00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:51.120 We're a serious Public Benefit Organisation. 00:45:51.240 --> 00:45:54.600 We adhere to rules, that's our policy. 00:45:54.720 --> 00:45:57.840 What would we gain by doing this? 00:45:57.960 --> 00:45:59.800 Let's put this in moral terms. 00:45:59.920 --> 00:46:03.720 Would you continue work with Nati Rom and his foundation... 00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:09.480 knowing he also finances weapons with donations? 00:46:09.600 --> 00:46:11.240 That's a hard question. -Why? 00:46:11.360 --> 00:46:18.080 You're confronting me with this now. I asked to get your questions up front. 00:46:18.200 --> 00:46:20.400 I didn't get them, so we couldn't confer. 00:46:20.520 --> 00:46:25.840 Christians for Israel doesn't support weapons. I want to emphasize this again. 00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:30.360 You just hope. -I'm sure of it. It's not hope. 00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:34.360 Our books are in order. We know what we're donating to. 00:46:34.480 --> 00:46:36.800 So let's look at the books. -Yes. 00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:42.520 We had another talk with Nati Rom and Arjen Domburg. You know him, I think. 00:46:42.640 --> 00:46:48.480 I know his name, not the person. -From the Heartland Foundation. 00:46:48.600 --> 00:46:54.440 This was a conversation about Roger van Oordt, well-known to you. 00:46:54.560 --> 00:46:58.800 Roger van Oordt is a very good friend of mine. 00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:01.720 He came to my place like twenty times. 00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:03.640 You know this, right? -I do. 00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:09.440 He brings groups to us to be inspired, you know. 00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:12.680 And he for years and years... 00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:16.320 We're very connected and I love him personally very much. 00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:21.000 He's a great person, but for years... 00:47:21.120 --> 00:47:26.320 his organization rather gives millions to projects like... 00:47:26.440 --> 00:47:32.200 building the windmill in Jerusalem and flowers... 00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:36.960 and they didn't want to be connected because they were afraid. 00:47:37.080 --> 00:47:43.320 And when he was helping me, it was in a small amount and secretly. 00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:45.760 So from time to time he used to help us... 00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:50.520 but secretly. He has his way how to do it. 00:47:50.640 --> 00:47:53.960 But for what I do, for what I want, I don't do flowers. 00:47:54.080 --> 00:47:57.960 Nati Rom is talking about off-the-books money which Roger van Oordt... 00:47:58.080 --> 00:48:00.960 Secretly, he said. I don't recognize that. 00:48:01.080 --> 00:48:04.240 He talked about off-the-books money... 00:48:04.360 --> 00:48:09.920 and said that Roger van Oort provided him with cash, and possibly implies there... 00:48:10.040 --> 00:48:12.760 as you heard, "I don't do flowers"... 00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:18.280 implying off-the-books actions like possibly financing weapons. 00:48:18.400 --> 00:48:22.520 I stick to my story. We don't finance weapons on the books... 00:48:22.640 --> 00:48:25.920 and we don't do anything off the books. -Nati Rom says you do. 00:48:26.040 --> 00:48:29.800 Those are his words. We don't do things off the books. 00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:35.240 I can't check it... -You'll have to take my word for it. 00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:39.920 Will you ask Roger van Oordt? -No, I'll look into this, of course. 00:48:40.040 --> 00:48:41.360 Are you shocked? 00:48:41.480 --> 00:48:47.360 We're being presented with things I'm not aware of. 00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:52.120 As Christians for Israel, we're accountable for our donations. 00:48:52.240 --> 00:48:58.360 I stand by that, having insight into the projects we support. 00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:00.760 We do not support violence. Period. 00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:07.320 You also funded 2,000 food vouchers in 2023. 00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:12.160 Let's discuss food vouchers. We'll go back to Nati Rom. 00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:15.360 Between you and me, we don't know each other yet... 00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:19.400 but this is the reason I use the food cards, because it's not only food... 00:49:19.520 --> 00:49:24.920 it's a card that they can use in one hundred main stores in Israel. 00:49:25.040 --> 00:49:29.200 They can also buy a tool, working tool. 00:49:29.320 --> 00:49:32.920 One project that might be interesting for you... 00:49:33.040 --> 00:49:37.600 is buying a small car, an ATV, I can show you a picture. 00:49:37.720 --> 00:49:42.720 It's for guarding at night and in the day they're working with it. 00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:46.040 There's a lot of options. -Okay. So the card is... 00:49:46.160 --> 00:49:50.560 They can use it how they want, even if they have trouble with the... 00:49:50.680 --> 00:49:54.840 what's it called, the sanctions or... 00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:58.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly, yes. 00:49:58.120 --> 00:50:01.720 What Nati Rom tells us is that the food vouchers here... 00:50:01.840 --> 00:50:09.480 can help bypass sanctions against settlers sanctioned by bodies like the EU. 00:50:09.600 --> 00:50:11.800 This isn't about gifts from Christians for Israel. 00:50:11.920 --> 00:50:14.040 No, but my question is: 00:50:14.160 --> 00:50:18.240 When you hear this, Nati Rom funding weapons... 00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:24.000 accepting cash from Roger van Oordt and wanting to bypass sanctions... 00:50:24.120 --> 00:50:27.600 our expert says this was about bypassing sanctions... 00:50:27.720 --> 00:50:30.880 is this enough to stop working with the foundation? 00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:35.480 We're against any form of violence. -Yes, you said that. 00:50:35.600 --> 00:50:39.160 And we will talk to Nati Rom. We know... 00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:42.800 You'll talk to Nati Rom, but... -Definitely. 00:50:42.920 --> 00:50:46.600 We've cooperated with him for many years. 00:50:46.720 --> 00:50:53.240 If it turns out that donations from Christians for Israel are misused by him... 00:50:53.360 --> 00:50:57.800 we'll ask questions and we'll stop if he continues to do so. 00:50:57.920 --> 00:51:03.000 Why do you call this area Judea and Samaria instead of the West Bank? 00:51:03.120 --> 00:51:06.960 It's the name used in Israel for the area. 00:51:07.080 --> 00:51:11.600 Yes, but it's the West Bank. -It's just a name, right? 00:51:11.720 --> 00:51:16.520 It's like North and South Holland together making up Holland. 00:51:16.640 --> 00:51:20.280 That's what it's called. In Israel, it's Judea and Samaria. 00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:24.960 A biblical term. -Biblical, but used in Israel. 00:51:25.080 --> 00:51:31.040 This is the way the religious settlers refer to the land in its biblical terms. 00:51:31.160 --> 00:51:35.320 It's not the way the great majority of Israelis... 00:51:35.440 --> 00:51:39.320 nor the legal system, nor the documents refer to it. 00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:43.480 The Israelis up to recently would call it "Hagda Ma'aravi"... 00:51:43.600 --> 00:51:45.520 which is literally the West Bank. 00:51:45.640 --> 00:51:49.240 You contribute directly to Nati Rom's foundation... 00:51:49.360 --> 00:51:55.440 which is clearly committed to maintaining and expanding settlements. 00:51:55.560 --> 00:52:00.680 You have contributed directly to the expansion of the settlement in Revava. 00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:07.360 And you work with Sondra Baras' Christian Friends of Israeli Communities. 00:52:07.480 --> 00:52:13.480 She has said, I believe on British tv, after Trump came to power... 00:52:13.600 --> 00:52:20.960 that Palestinians should accept the fact that they will never have sovereignty. 00:52:21.080 --> 00:52:24.320 In a draconian regime, the first thing you're saying is... 00:52:24.440 --> 00:52:27.360 teaching people how to speak a new language. 00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:30.920 So this is... -This is settler lingo. 00:52:31.040 --> 00:52:32.480 This is settler language... 00:52:32.600 --> 00:52:39.680 as if ignoring the United Nations and all the resolutions that passed since 1967. 00:52:39.800 --> 00:52:45.160 In that sense you say, "we'll accept whatever happens." 00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:50.480 But in the meantime, you commit financially and materially... 00:52:50.600 --> 00:52:57.240 to organizations whose goal is to make the West Bank as Jewish as possible. 00:52:57.360 --> 00:53:02.800 I'm not concerned with the opinions of those you mentioned. 00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:08.120 But you do support them financially. -We also back those against Netanyahu. 00:53:08.240 --> 00:53:13.040 We know what we're supporting. Donations go to specific projects. 00:53:13.160 --> 00:53:17.480 It's about supporting an ideology... -We don't support any ideology. 00:53:17.600 --> 00:53:22.120 This is strange. If I tie Allard's laces and then slap you... 00:53:22.240 --> 00:53:25.880 I can't say, "I slapped you, but I also tied his laces, so it's okay." 00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:32.880 You're supporting foundations that contribute to the colonisation of territories. 00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:37.480 We just support people. -You're not just supporting people. 00:53:37.600 --> 00:53:40.400 Yes, we do. We're discussing opinions. 00:53:40.520 --> 00:53:43.240 You have your opinion about the territory's future. 00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:47.280 That's irrelevant, as I don't oversee a donating foundation. 00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:52.520 You donate a lot of Dutch money. -It's not that much for those territories. 00:53:52.640 --> 00:53:59.240 Such extreme remarks aren't a problem? -You say extreme, but she may have a point. 00:53:59.360 --> 00:54:03.960 Currently it might be better if Israel controls the area... 00:54:04.080 --> 00:54:09.080 rather than having a Palestinian authority or even Hamas in control. 00:54:09.200 --> 00:54:12.280 Purely in pragmatic terms. 00:54:12.400 --> 00:54:20.160 Just now, the Palestinian population suffers from a poorly organized leadership... 00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:26.240 so maybe it's more of a pragmatic approach than an ideological approach. 00:54:26.360 --> 00:54:30.800 I must go against this, for there's much more going on than... 00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:34.760 It complicates when Palestinians want their land... 00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:40.960 but when it's about Palestinian leadership, it's straightforward. 00:54:41.080 --> 00:54:46.200 You know that's very complex too. -Extremely complex. 00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:53.520 What would it take for Christians for Israel to stop supporting or donating? 00:54:53.640 --> 00:54:55.800 When would we pull out? 00:54:55.920 --> 00:54:58.160 When violence is used. 00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:00.840 Can you define that? 00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:04.440 Well, violence. Weapons maybe? 00:55:04.560 --> 00:55:09.640 We don't do that. It's against our policy. We want no part in that. 00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:12.080 Stealing land? -Nor in that. 00:55:12.200 --> 00:55:13.840 Colonising? -We abide by the law. 00:55:13.960 --> 00:55:16.240 What can we agree upon after this conversation? 00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:20.720 You'll look into Revava. We've just told you the story. 00:55:20.840 --> 00:55:25.400 If it's illegal and hampers people like Jamal... 00:55:25.520 --> 00:55:28.400 ...you'll end your support, the homes must go. 00:55:28.520 --> 00:55:30.760 They'll have to be moved. -Where? 00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:32.920 I don't know yet. 00:55:33.040 --> 00:55:35.360 Then there's Nati Rom. 00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:38.120 You'll wash our hands of him. 00:55:38.240 --> 00:55:40.840 Look, we'll talk with Nati Rom. 00:55:40.960 --> 00:55:47.920 You've confronted me today with a telephone conversation I was unaware of. 00:55:48.040 --> 00:55:52.880 We'll talk to Nati Rom and see what the consequences will be. 00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:58.120 So spreading an ideology would not be enough for you to pull out? 00:55:58.240 --> 00:56:02.280 This is about politics, not ideology. That's okay. 00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:06.960 This is a free country, and so is Israel. Different opinions are allowed. 00:56:07.080 --> 00:56:09.640 Everything you do has been allowed so far. 00:56:09.760 --> 00:56:13.800 How does the foundation see it? You speak for it, right? 00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:18.840 We don't support people based on their political views. 00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:21.840 We just support all people. 00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:29.640 But that's not what you guys do, right? 00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:34.880 Never mind. I'm also hitting a wall, I think. 00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:39.560 Why use organizations like CFOIC or Nati Rom's... 00:56:39.680 --> 00:56:44.080 or the Itamar foundation, where we know that people... 00:56:44.200 --> 00:56:47.760 Itamar is notorious for its violent settlers. 00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:53.920 Nati Rom makes strong public statements about their West Bank vision. 00:56:54.040 --> 00:57:00.160 Ms. Baras tells the BBC she wants sovereignty to go to Israel. 00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:05.400 And you support that financially. -We support the people financially. 00:57:11.480 --> 00:57:13.680 I can't sugarcoat it. 00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:17.720 All we do, is support activities in Israel. 00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:21.200 We support people who need it. -Who say these things. 00:57:21.320 --> 00:57:27.160 In Israel, there are many different opinions on the future of the conflict. 00:57:27.280 --> 00:57:32.440 You choose to support a certain opinion. -Our support is independent of that. 00:57:32.560 --> 00:57:36.120 But you are supporting it. It amounts to the same thing. 00:57:39.800 --> 00:57:43.560 You support the people who hold these views... 00:57:43.680 --> 00:57:47.240 even if you say you don't support them because of those views. 00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:51.080 That's what we do, indeed. There's nothing wrong with that. 00:57:51.200 --> 00:57:56.920 Because in Israel there are many opinions about the future of the West Bank. 00:57:57.040 --> 00:58:01.440 They believe it would be best if Israel were in charge. 00:58:01.560 --> 00:58:03.480 So, that's the conclusion. 00:58:03.600 --> 00:58:08.920 It doesn't matter if she says that, she can still expect money from CvI. 00:58:09.040 --> 00:58:12.080 So, that's cleared now. 00:58:12.200 --> 00:58:14.800 We've come to the point. -Great. 00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:19.440 Right? We have everything we needed. We wanted to hear your reaction. 00:58:19.560 --> 00:58:23.360 Have a good day. -Thank you. 00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:28.560 Is the wine from the occupied territories sold here too? Why is that? 00:58:28.680 --> 00:58:32.880 Is this part of the interview? -Sure. 00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:36.240 Because it's very tasty wine. -Even if it's from occupied territory. 00:58:36.360 --> 00:58:38.640 It's under dispute. -It's occupied. 00:58:38.760 --> 00:58:40.240 It's under dispute. -Occupied. 00:58:40.360 --> 00:58:44.640 There's a dispute, to be clear. -Yes, but it's clearly occupied. 00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:49.800 This is George Orwell 101. If you want a draconian regime... 00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:54.520 the first thing you do, is teach people how to speak a new language. 00:58:54.640 --> 00:58:57.520 It's the settler lingo, the settler language. 00:58:57.640 --> 00:59:03.360 As if ignoring the United Nations and all the resolutions that passed since 1967. 00:59:03.480 --> 00:59:10.720 So, Israel occupied these territories, there are territories that are occupied. 00:59:10.840 --> 00:59:16.680 Israel recognizes that this is occupied territory in terms of international law. 00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:21.520 It's not illegal to occupy a territory. That's the key thing. 00:59:21.640 --> 00:59:27.120 It's problematic, it should be temporary, but it's not illegal to occupy land. 00:59:27.240 --> 00:59:33.480 What is illegal, is to then send settlers into the occupied territories and so on. 00:59:33.600 --> 00:59:35.760 This is where we're going into legal... 00:59:35.880 --> 00:59:40.960 One of the tactics of settlers to say there's nothing problematic about it... 00:59:41.080 --> 00:59:44.840 is to blur the fact that this is occupied land. 00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:50.720 So, this is again a type of debate about terminology... 00:59:50.840 --> 00:59:57.360 that appeared immediately after 1967, disappeared and now reappears again... 00:59:57.480 --> 01:00:03.280 in which the hawkish Israeli right is saying: Don't call it occupied territory. 01:00:03.400 --> 01:00:06.360 They'll call it disputed territory. 01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:11.320 That's what the international community says. It's simply in Area C... 01:00:11.440 --> 01:00:14.200 which is under Israeli control according to the Oslo Accords. 01:00:14.320 --> 01:00:16.840 The wine's from that area. -Which is occupied. 01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:20.360 It's clearly labeled. We have a booklet on the wine's origin. 01:00:20.480 --> 01:00:22.240 Occupied territory. -Disputed. 01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:26.440 Does it taste well? -It's delicious. Thank you. 01:00:32.800 --> 01:00:37.160 She was consistent in what she told us, but unclear, I think. 01:00:37.280 --> 01:00:41.960 It's almost as if she wanted to convey a different truth from the CvI website. 01:00:42.080 --> 01:00:45.080 The things that were said and we've discovered. 01:00:46.200 --> 01:00:51.320 I think her main point is they can give money to whomever they want. 01:00:51.440 --> 01:00:55.600 That it doesn't matter what those people believe or what world view they promote. 01:00:55.720 --> 01:01:00.080 They're not responsible for what is done with the money. 01:01:00.200 --> 01:01:04.160 Which, of course, is absurd. It means you can say you're not responsible... 01:01:04.280 --> 01:01:10.000 while giving tens of or even hundreds of thousands of euros to extremist groups. 01:01:10.120 --> 01:01:16.480 You can't just wash your hands of that, while saying you support them. 01:01:16.600 --> 01:01:20.160 I don't know what just happened there. 01:01:20.280 --> 01:01:25.200 We'll go and review the facts again, as we're wont to do. 01:01:25.320 --> 01:01:31.920 In any case, we've learned that they'll be talking to Naty Rom, whatever that means. 01:01:32.040 --> 01:01:38.000 It didn't feel as if she took that seriously. Let's see what she does. 01:01:38.120 --> 01:01:40.760 She's going to call Roger van Oord. 01:01:42.960 --> 01:01:48.880 I'm curious to see what will come of that. As for the rest, you've said it all. 01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:53.160 The question is how seriously they're going to take this. 01:01:53.280 --> 01:01:57.080 They have the same information we have. 01:01:57.200 --> 01:02:02.120 It took us just a few days of googling to find out what is going wrong. 01:02:02.240 --> 01:02:06.800 Did they fail to do that? Or did they do it, but then just ignored it? 01:02:06.920 --> 01:02:08.360 That's also possible. 01:02:08.480 --> 01:02:13.080 I think they have, because she just said it doesn't matter what someone says. 01:02:13.200 --> 01:02:16.200 They support all opinions and all views... 01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:20.960 even if they are as you just presented them. 01:02:21.080 --> 01:02:25.120 On a closing note: I hope that nothing happens to Jamal. 01:02:25.240 --> 01:02:29.800 He contributed to this programme, but is his safety now at risk? 01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:32.720 He's aware, but we wish him all the best. 01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:36.720 We don't tolerate any antisemitism, islamophobia... 01:02:36.840 --> 01:02:42.120 or other forms of discrimination and racism in the comment section. 01:02:42.240 --> 01:02:44.200 Please, refrain from that. 01:02:44.320 --> 01:02:49.320 Stick to the facts and nothing but the facts. This story requires it. 01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:54.000 We don't want to seen any hateful stuff. 01:02:54.120 --> 01:02:55.760 What a story. 01:03:01.960 --> 01:03:06.680 I need the land. I wish somebody could step in... 01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:11.960 and help us with that, to be able to go there... 01:03:12.080 --> 01:03:17.120 but I know whether there's somebody or not, or somebody can do it or not... 01:03:17.240 --> 01:03:21.680 these people don't listen. These settlers don't listen to nobody. 01:03:21.800 --> 01:03:28.160 This entire movement is forbidden under international law, so that's clear. 01:03:28.280 --> 01:03:33.880 It's a bad thing. Palestinians are suffering the most damage. 01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:38.440 It is their land that is being taken. It is their freedom of movement... 01:03:38.560 --> 01:03:42.960 that is being restricted in a very nasty and intrusive way. 01:03:43.080 --> 01:03:46.400 So, that money is used to violate human rights. 01:03:47.520 --> 01:03:50.880 CvI has paused its support to Nati Rom, pending further investigation. 01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:53.800 Sara van Oordt, CvI's media and communication manager... 01:03:53.920 --> 01:03:57.120 has told the Nederlands Dagblad and Investico... 01:03:57.240 --> 01:04:01.240 that support to Nati Rom has been suspended, pending further investigation. 01:04:01.360 --> 01:04:04.240 As for the new housing estate in Revava, she says: 01:04:04.360 --> 01:04:09.320 If it is proven that the houses are built on the land of a Palestinian farmer... 01:04:09.440 --> 01:04:12.160 we will make sure it is moved elsewhere. 01:04:12.280 --> 01:04:16.920 CvI does not want to build on any land that has been stolen.' 01:04:17.040 --> 01:04:22.120 In a reaction, Roger van Oordt states that Nati Rom could not have meant to say... 01:04:22.240 --> 01:04:26.760 'that he received cash or any money off the books, from either me or CvI.' 01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:29.440 He writes that 'this never happened'. 01:04:31.800 --> 01:04:35.320 Arjen Domburg writes on behalf of Stichting Israël Heartland... 01:04:35.440 --> 01:04:37.840 'that they never donated money off the books.... 01:04:37.960 --> 01:04:40.200 or financed the purchase of weapons.' 01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:44.520 'The work of undercover reporters who lie about his indentity... 01:04:44.640 --> 01:04:47.920 while inciting, manipulating and pressuring'... 01:04:48.040 --> 01:04:53.000 make it 'problematic to answer questions', he maintains. 01:04:53.120 --> 01:04:58.800 Nati Rom says that his foundation never received money off the books, or cash... 01:04:58.920 --> 01:05:02.400 from CvI, or people associated with CvI. 01:05:02.520 --> 01:05:06.360 'They never donated money for weapons, and they never will. 01:05:06.480 --> 01:05:11.920 These are the facts. In all the work we do, we follow Israeli law to the letter.' 01:05:20.240 --> 01:05:23.520 If you found this video interesting, subscribe to our channel. 01:05:23.640 --> 01:05:26.200 It's free and keeps you up-to-date. 01:05:26.320 --> 01:05:29.440 Every Tuesday, we broadcast on this channel... 01:05:29.560 --> 01:05:35.320 and every Thursday, on all other platforms with RADIO BOOS, our podcast. See you. 01:05:35.440 --> 01:05:38.920 There won't be a show next week, but the week after that. 01:05:39.040 --> 01:05:42.960 That has to do with the story that we're airing that week. So, brace yourselves.