[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.00,0:00:04.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Brian Williams]\NIt's a part of American life, when something is no longer useful to you,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:04.00,0:00:07.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you give it to Goodwill. You drop it in the Goodwill box,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:07.00,0:00:10.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,perhaps in the supermarket parking lot near you,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:10.00,0:00:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you've then done something good, with something you no longer consider good.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.00,0:00:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You may know that Goodwill donation centers employ disabled workers,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:20.00,0:00:27.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but you may not realize that some of those workers are legally exempt from minimum wage protection.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:27.00,0:00:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That means that some end up making just pennies per hour.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:30.00,0:00:34.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is legal, but tonight, Harry Smith takes on the question of fairness.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:36.00,0:00:40.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith]\NGoodwill, a place where you feel good about leaving your old clothes,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:40.00,0:00:44.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a place where you feel good about shopping in a tough economy.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:44.00,0:00:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goodwill's mission is to give jobs to people who are down on their luck, or have a disability.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:50.00,0:00:53.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goodwill does a lot of good, no question about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:54.00,0:00:57.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But in back rooms like this one, in Great Falls, Montana,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:57.00,0:00:59.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of sight of donors and shoppers,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:00.00,0:01:04.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there is something going on that many disabled people do not feel so good about.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:04.00,0:01:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People with disabilties working for less than the federal minimum wage
Dialogue: 0,0:01:09.00,0:01:18.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of $7.25 an hour. There are even places in America where Goodwill workers earn as little as $0.22 an hour.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:18.00,0:01:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And because of a loophole in the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.00,0:01:24.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's all perfectly legal
Dialogue: 0,0:01:24.00,0:01:26.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[woman's voice:]\NThat's ridiculous.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:26.00,0:01:29.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith:] Harold and Sheila Leigland have been married for more than twenty years.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:29.00,0:01:32.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Both are blind and both have college degrees.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:32.00,0:01:39.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sheila worked at the Goodwill facility in Great Falls, Montana, earning about $3.50 an hour for four years.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.00,0:01:44.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She says she quit last summer when they lowered her wage to $2.75 an hour.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:44.00,0:01:50.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Sheila Leigland]\NThat $2.75, it would barely cover my cost of getting to work. I wouldn't make any money.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:52.00,0:01:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith]\NThey call the facility "the plant," and Harold still works there.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:55.00,0:01:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It operates what's called a "sheltered workshop."
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.00,0:02:04.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here the disabled get virtually guaranteed employment, but they are not guaranteed minimum wage.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:04.00,0:02:08.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that doesn't matter to some of the workers. Jeremy Davidson loves it here.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:08.00,0:02:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith]\NYou love it here?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:09.00,0:02:19.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Jeremy Davidson]\NI love it here, more than the world, more than the world yes. I also love, um, NASCAR, but this and NASCAR are my two favorite things in life.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:20.00,0:02:26.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith] But for others, it is a dead end, a job of last resort in a world in which there are few options.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:26.00,0:02:27.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What's your wage right now?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:27.00,0:02:29.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harold Leigland]\N$5.46 an hour.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.00,0:02:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith]\N$5.46 an hour?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:30.00,0:02:33.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harold Leigland]\NYeah, and that could change in a few months.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.00,0:02:39.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith] It could change because sheltered workshop wages are determined by a speed test every six months.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:39.00,0:02:43.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goodwill staff use a stop watch to see how many items of clothing
Dialogue: 0,0:02:43.00,0:02:45.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Harold can hang in a minute.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:45.00,0:02:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harold Leigland]\NYou're allowed two mistakes, and then anything else after that,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:49.00,0:02:52.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your quality is considered poor.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:52.00,0:02:56.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, your perecentage of wage goes down.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:57.00,0:02:59.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We talked with three advocates for the disabled,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:59.00,0:03:02.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all of whom are disabled themselves.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:02.00,0:03:07.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Dr. Marc Mauer] I wouldn't pay anyone a sub minimum wage because I'm not willing to tell people day after day,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:07.00,0:03:12.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,week after week, month after month, and year after year that they are not worth it.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:12.00,0:03:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Dr. Marc Mauer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:15.00,0:03:19.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has been leading the fight to ban sheltered workshops altogether.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.00,0:03:25.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Dr. Marc Mauer] The sheletered workshop system takes people and systematically tells them
Dialogue: 0,0:03:25.00,0:03:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're not as good as the rest of the workforce.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.00,0:03:33.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith] We found Department of Labor records showing hourly wages for Goodwill workers in Pennslyvania
Dialogue: 0,0:03:33.00,0:03:44.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as low as $0.22 an hour, $0.38, $0.41, $0.44, the list of wages under $2.00 an hour goes on and on.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:45.00,0:03:47.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that's only part of the story.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:47.00,0:03:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While some Goodwill workers are making pennies,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:49.00,0:03:52.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their bosses are faring a bit better.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:52.00,0:03:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A half-dozen regional Goodwill CEO's make $400,000 a year or more.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:58.00,0:04:01.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Many others make nearly that much.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:01.00,0:04:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In 2011, the CEO of Goodwill Industries of Southern California took home $1.1 million dollars in salary
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.00,0:04:10.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and deferred compensation.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:10.00,0:04:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith] For someone who is an advocate for the disabled, how does that sit with you?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:15.00,0:04:18.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Cathy Steffke:]\NIs my head spinning right now? Because that's how it sits with me.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:18.00,0:04:21.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Cathy Steffke once worked at a Goodwill.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:21.00,0:04:24.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She's a disability rights activist, based in Wisconsin.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:24.00,0:04:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Cathy Steffke]\NHow can anybody possibly go into human services thinking they're going to get rich.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:30.00,0:04:38.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And do so, o-on, on, on the labor of the most vulnerable citizens that we have.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:38.00,0:04:40.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How can that be fair or, or ethical?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:40.00,0:04:45.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith]\NWhat's more, Goodwill grosses almost $5 billion dollars a year.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:45.00,0:04:51.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Advocates are outraged that a tax exempt, non profit that gets hundreds of millions of dollars in government funding,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:51.00,0:04:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,does not pay some of its workers minimum wage.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.00,0:04:57.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Does it feel like exploitation to you?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:57.00,0:04:59.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ari Ne'eman]\NIt is exploitation.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.00,0:05:03.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is unquestionably, and clearly exploitation.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:03.00,0:05:07.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ari Ne'eman is President of the Autistic Self Advocacy Network.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:07.00,0:05:10.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ari Ne'eman]\NThey're able to collect charitable donations,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:10.00,0:05:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're able to present themselves as doing good work,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:14.00,0:05:18.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and yet they don't have to do right by their workers.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:18.00,0:05:19.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith]\NAri, let me ask you this:
Dialogue: 0,0:05:21.00,0:05:27.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If I'm an executive from Goodwill, one of my arguments is, "I'm paying wages that are commensurate with the ability
Dialogue: 0,0:05:27.00,0:05:29.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the people who....
Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.00,0:05:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you smile,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:30.00,0:05:34.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,....with the people I have in my,..in my workshop".
Dialogue: 0,0:05:34.00,0:05:42.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ari Ne'eman]\NI think, that if you had a person with a stopwatch, um, standing outside your office on any given day,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.00,0:05:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and assess as compared to some hypothetical, um, other broadcaster,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:49.00,0:05:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how productive you are,uh, I-I think the result would be somewhat arbitrary.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:55.00,0:06:01.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Jim Gibbons, President and CEO of Goodwill Industries International, dismisses Goodwill's critics.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.00,0:06:08.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Jim Gibbons]\NWhen the elitists, uh, try to define somebody else's success, that that's not only insulting to me
Dialogue: 0,0:06:08.00,0:06:11.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in terms of the work that I'm trying to accomplish,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.00,0:06:16.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but to the individuals who, who have goals that they have established for themselves.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:16.00,0:06:23.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith]\NSo, the people who we've talked to, who say that this is a civil rights issue, you, you would say they're elitist?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.00,0:06:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Jim Gibbons]\NI would say that every individual has a right to define success for themselves.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:30.00,0:06:35.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith]\NGibbons, who himself is blind, made more than a half a million dollars in 2011.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:35.00,0:06:40.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He insists, Goodwill's payscale and sheltered workshops is fair.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:40.00,0:06:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As I look at some of the hourly wages: $1.00, $1.52, $0.58 an hour, $1.30,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:49.00,0:06:51.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this just goes on and on and on.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:52.00,0:06:57.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Jim Gibbons]\NYou know, Harry, no matter what the person's, uh, issues are,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.00,0:07:01.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether it's a disability or anything else, what you see is, uh, everything is
Dialogue: 0,0:07:01.00,0:07:07.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,focused on the individual, their goals, their skillsets and their abilities.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:07.00,0:07:12.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith]\NYour regional CEOs, some of them are making a half million dollars or more,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:12.00,0:07:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how do you justify that disparity?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.00,0:07:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Jim Gibbons]\NI think these leaders are having a great impact in terms of new solutions,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:20.00,0:07:24.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in terms of innovation, and in terms of job creation.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:24.00,0:07:29.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith] I hear what you're saying, but I'm looking at a company that makes so much money.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:29.00,0:07:33.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Looks to me like you've got the money to pay these people minimum wage.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.00,0:07:44.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[JIm Gibbons]\NThe, the, the whole driving force of why Goodwill has such a major impact in the communities that they're a part of
Dialogue: 0,0:07:44.00,0:07:50.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is because Goodwills in our history have always been market driven. It really is just that simple.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:50.00,0:07:54.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you don't let that happen, then you're not around for the next day.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:54.00,0:07:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith]\NGibbons says, with a total workforce of more than a 110,000 people,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:58.00,0:08:04.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goodwill employs between 7 and 8,000 people with disabilities, whose pay, according to the
Dialogue: 0,0:08:04.00,0:08:08.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fair Labor Standards act, can be below minimum wage.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:08.00,0:08:13.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He says, Goodwill gives people with the most severe disabilities an opportunity to work,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:13.00,0:08:16.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an opportunity they would not otherwise have.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:16.00,0:08:21.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He says for many of the people who make less than minimum wage, the experience of work is
Dialogue: 0,0:08:21.00,0:08:24.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more important than the pay they get.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.00,0:08:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Jim Gibbons] It's typically not about their livelihood, it's about their fulfillment, it's about being a part of something,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.00,0:08:33.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's probably a small part of their overall program.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:33.00,0:08:37.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith] But for Harold and Sheila Leigland, Gibbons words sound out of step with their complaints.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:37.00,0:08:43.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They say, they do need the money and they could be productive in their own right with the right job.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:43.00,0:08:45.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A job better suited to their abilities.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:45.00,0:08:51.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Sheila Leigland]\NI thought that it would be a really good thing if I could answer the phone at the plant,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:51.00,0:08:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and take messages and deliver messages, but that was poo-pooed.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:55.00,0:09:02.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Dr. Marc Mauer]\NIt's the obligation of management to figure out how to use people's talents, not the obligation of the worker
Dialogue: 0,0:09:02.00,0:09:08.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to fit into some box, that the manager dreams up and says, regardless of your disability, this is your job,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:08.00,0:09:11.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if you're not any good at it, that's your fault not mine.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:11.00,0:09:16.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith]\NAnd is that the way you feel some of these Goodwills operate?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:16.00,0:09:18.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Dr. Marc Mauer]\NIt is exactly how they operate.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:18.00,0:09:24.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Sheila Leigland]\NIt's a question of being able to be treated like a first class citizen in this country,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:24.00,0:09:31.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and have the rights of other people to work to obtain the things they need,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:31.00,0:09:34.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to be the people that they can be.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:34.00,0:09:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a civil rights issue for me.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:36.00,0:09:38.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Brian Williams]\NHmm, Harry Smith here with us.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:38.00,0:09:43.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You said you set out just to shed light on this, and some of this just don't seem right.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:43.00,0:09:47.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith]\NYeah, this is a conversation that has been going on in this community for some time now,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.00,0:09:51.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we wanted to, maybe, make the conversation a little bit bigger.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.00,0:09:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And on some levels it's so black and white on all the levels, it certainly is grey,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:55.00,0:09:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you're the family member of a disabled person who finds
Dialogue: 0,0:09:58.00,0:10:05.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some way to get more self-meaning in their life by being able to get a job in a sheltered workshop
Dialogue: 0,0:10:05.00,0:10:10.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that may be really profound and maybe a life changing, and life enhancing..er.. experience.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:10.00,0:10:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, for these disabled advocates, they say that model is out of date.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:14.00,0:10:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That goes back to a different time in our country, and it's time to get into the 21st century.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:20.00,0:10:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Brian Williams]\NPowerful story well told. Thank you pal.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.00,0:10:25.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Harry Smith]\NThanks for the opportunity.