Hello. My name is Erin McCluskey.
This is a Wee BSL Blethers video on role models.
You will see I have somebody with me.
Could you introduce yourself please?
My name is Margaret McLean.
Marvellous! Do you have a sign name, Margaret?
Just MML.
I’ll call you this sign name today if
that’s alright? Okay. So I am going to
interview Margaret about her childhood.
Find out what it was like for her growing up,
getting her first job and so on.
I’m really looking forward to finding out more.
Margaret, firstly, can I ask what it
was like for you growing up?
Well I come from a Deaf family so BSL
was used every day at home.
I only have a ran into issues outside
of home, with hearing people.
It did make me a bit reluctant to mix.
So growing up things were pretty easy
and comfortable in terms of accessible
communication, at home at least?
Easy, yes. Everybody signed every day
within my family so there were no issues at all.
So your family were all Deaf then?
Yes.
Parents? Your siblings?
Yes, all Deaf.
And were you all close?
Yes, we were a close family I would
say, because of BSL. I was closest to
my father because he would tell me
a lot of stuff. I think he was my
role model growing up.
How lovely. Your dad was your role model.
Yes.
He encouraged and supported you growing up?
Yes.
Marvellous. And that’s a perfect link into
what I want to ask you about next
because I want to talk about school.
When you first went to school, what was it like?
I first went to a local school. One I could
walk to from home. I think it was only about
five minutes away. My parents wanted
me to go there so I was nearby.
They did not want to send me away
to boarding school.
Unfortunately, the focus was very much
on speaking and listening so my parents
eventually decided to send me to a
school in Glasgow where they used sign language.
Makes sense. So your parents decided
to remove you from that local school
because it did not suit you and they
had to send you away.
Were you happy at your school in Glasgow?
It was okay. They used sign language
there, but the teachers couldn’t really
sign very well. They would speak and
throw in a few signs here in there, but not many.
And at that time I guess sign language was
very much seen as undesirable, am I right?
Yes. It was a long time ago now and there
were very old-fashioned views.
There was no real awareness of the
language or its importance.
I think things are very different now of course.
Yes.
So, thinking about school, what was your
favourite topic and what did
you really hate learning about?
I really loved arithmetic. Nobody calls it
that anymore. It’s become maths hasn’t it.
But we used to call it arithmetic.
Oh really! So you were good
at that and enjoyed it?
Yes. I loved arithmetic. I was okay at
English. The subject I really hated was sewing.
Really! Why?
Yes! I always used to mess it up and
get it wrong. I found it really frustrating.
Maybe you lacked
confidence in that subject.
I think you’re right.
So you progressed through your schooling
and eventually left school. Did you have any
support to help you find a job.
Did you go to college or university?
There was nothing really back then.
I do remember meeting with the
Careers Advisor and telling them
I wanted to become a Teacher of the Deaf.
They told me I could not do that because
I was Deaf myself. What a discriminatory attitude!
I decided to ask the social worker
about it and told them the same thing,
that I wanted to become a Teacher of
the Deaf. They also told me that I could
not do that job and suggested that
I become a machinist. I refused and they
said I would have to go
to the DHSS in that case.
What is the DHSS?
It’s what’s known as the DWP these days.
Oh I see.
Similar to the job centre now. So I went
along, and they suggested I try for office
work, which sounded okay, but it meant
I had to go to college. They helped me fill
in the application forms and I sent
them off. I soon heard that I’d been
offered a place which was great.
I went to college to learn how to be a secretary,
but I found it really difficult
because I did not have an interpreter.
How did you get on?
I managed the best I could. I kept asking
the lady sat next to me what we were
supposed to be doing. I think she
found it a bit frustrating.
She was fed up that I was taking up
her time. I tried my best though and
I did get through the course and
luckily, straight out to work.
And you got your certificate? Did you
go off and work in an office then?
Yes that’s right. The course was a year
and then after that I got a job in an office.
I was there for seven years,
then I left to start a family.
So when you became pregnant, you left
your job and focused on raising your family.
Did you take on any other work after that?
I did a few little jobs, but nothing
interesting until I saw an advert for a
BSL role model essentially. At that time,
the role was known as an auxiliary.
It’s changed now. I was not successful
the first time I applied for one of these roles.
It wasn’t until my third attempt
that I finally got a job.
Do you know why you were unsuccessful
the first two times you tried?
I don’t know. I think it was because the
organisation at that time was maybe not
aware of what BSL was and were not
expecting a Deaf person to apply for the role.
The families they wanted someone to work
with were hearing, so perhaps they assumed
it would be better to have a hearing person
in post. I don’t know that for sure though.
So you were finally successful on your
third attempt. What did your work as a
BSL advocate involved?
Well really, I just helped the parents.
I taught them sign language.
I supported nursery staff and primary
school staff and even secondary
school staff too, advising them how
to support their Deaf students.
So you must have had to travel
around a lot for your job?
Yes, I travelled all over the place.
I had a lot of work to do.
And did you teach sign language
as part of your role?
I did, yes.
Did you cover Deaf identity,
culture and so on as well?
Yes, I did, but my role was really more
focused around supporting the young person.
For example, I would read a book with
them and explain the meaning of particular
words to try and increase their sign
vocabulary. I would do the same for numbers.
Sounds like a great job. Okay, let’s move
on a little to our connection.
When I was little, you taught me
BSL didn’t you Margaret?
I did.
I remember Margaret working with me.
She was my role model.
She gave me the most wonderful gift,
the gift of British Sign Language.
I feel incredibly lucky to have had the
opportunity to learn BSL from Margaret.
Without her, I don’t know what my life
would be like now. I don’t think I would
be where I am now. It didn’t just stop
with me though. I have been able to share
this beautiful language with my parents too.
This makes our family connections so much easier.
So Margaret, you really are my role model.
When I was little, you used to come out
to my nursery. I still have some photos from
that time which I’d love to share with our viewers:
How sweet! Would you like to share any
memories of that time, Margaret?
I don’t really remember anything much
because I was so very young, but maybe you can.
Yes, I can remember very clearly.
I remember I started working with you
when you were about 1 ½. When I first
arrived, you ran off and hid under the table.
You did this every single time I visited,
for weeks, and I visited twice a week.
Your mum would try to encourage you to
come out and finally you did, and we
started to form a bond.
After that, things got better.
I think I was probably just really thrown
because you were using sign language and
although my parents signed a little,
it was the first time I had met anybody
who was fluent in BSL. I just panicked.
Once I realised you were okay, things improved,
and I learned so much from you.