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How to Be Free From Ego
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5 November 2024
(with subtitles)
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[M.] Can I just read it out?
[Q.1] Yes.
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[M.] You write, 'Dear Guruji.
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I am too ashamed and afraid to speak to you.
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I don't know how to observe with detachment.
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I don't know how to be aware
that I am aware.
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I still see this 'I' identity as real.
Please help me.'
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It's a very, very honest thing.
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I wish people would write more like this and say.
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Because some people,
they hold back and they don't say.
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So I appreciate that you can say it,
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because I can kind of have a chance
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to share with you in a simple way.
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[Mooji] 'I don't know
how to observe with detachment.'
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Actually, we're observing with detachment
on many things,
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if they don't matter to you,
you understand?
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If things don't matter to you,
you still see them,
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but you're not distracted by them.
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Everybody, same thing.
So that's the first part.
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There is no such thing as
not observing with detachment.
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If, suppose everything you see,
every situation you had,
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you had to remember.
It's just alive in you.
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We'll be completely crazy.
Nobody can do.
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There is the mechanism
of our true natural state,
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it's working all the time to ...
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Like you can walk through here,
walk up there,
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you don't have to notice every step.
You don't notice everything.
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You meet a person, 'Hi. Good morning'.
You pass. You don't have to retain that.
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So a natural detachment
is functioning inside us.
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It's already there, detachment.
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If we were not able to detach
and yet we are perceiving,
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we would be in trouble.
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So, first of all, know that it's natural
that you meet people ...
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It's the things that matter to you,
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that you start to become more attached to.
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Like it has meaning
and so I have to remember this thing.
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So it's almost like
you take a kind of photograph
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in some kind of way inside,
it's like that matters,
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so then it become important.
So like this, when you say,
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'I don't know how to observe with detachment.'
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If I say, But you're doing it anyway
with many things.
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If I walk through from the front
to the back here,
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and I say to everybody as we're walking through,
Be detached from everything,
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then it becomes a problem,
because it turns it into a strangeness.
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Because naturally you're detached from things.
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You come to satsang
and I'm teaching you something much more powerful
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and to bring awareness to something
that's already natural for you.
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But I want it to be natural for you
even with things that matter.
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[Q.1] Yes, that's my problem.
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[Mooji] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's a problem for everybody.
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With things that don't matter,
no problem.
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You don't even have to say,
'I'm going to be detached from that.'
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You don't even have to say that.
You don't have to think.
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You're just senses, eyes, life.
You meet these things. Nothing.
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Just move through them. You retain your peace.
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But about the things that you say matter,
and what makes them matter?
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Let's slow down a bit and say,
what makes some things matter?
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It's an open question.
Why do they matter?
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Some
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relationship, some concepts,
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OK, this is family, this is my job,
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this is my relationship,
and these things matter.
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So if somebody else's relationship
is in trouble, it's no problem for you.
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But if you have a relationship problem,
it matters for you.
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So what is this thing that I'm talking about,
to observe with detachment?
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It's just a little step further
than what I say,
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you walk through,
you're naturally detached anyway.
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What I'm asking about,
learning to observe with detachment,
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is to bring that detachment ...
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Because whatever you see,
nothing sticks actually. A natural thing.
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But when things matter, your relationship,
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what you want, your work and so on,
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it creates a structure in your mind
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and you have to take care of that.
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So, I'm not going into all of these things.
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I'm saying that,
OK, what is attachment, is to...
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I want you to be aware of a space within you,
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which is not changed
by whatever is happening around you.
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It's alive. It's not dead, but it's not,
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it's not attached to the outcome
of things so deeply.
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I don't know if I'm putting it right.
I'm trying to find an example.
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[Q.1] I feel like there is no space.
It's just all mind and identity.
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[M.] If you are able to see mind,
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you must be looking from
some place that's not mind.
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This is true for everybody.
Just you're not aware that it's like that.
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Actually, what I'm saying is
actually so powerfully true for you
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when you're aware of it.
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And largely, the teachings
and the practice of what we do here
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is to make you more aware of something about you
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that you're not so aware of, for everybody.
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And because we're not aware
in the place that you should be aware
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of your inmost being.
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You can't see that.
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That's the other thing.
Everything else you can see.
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Every relationship, every object you can see.
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Every thought you can remember,
you can think.
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They're all called 'other',
everything you can see.
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But your Self you cannot see.
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You get that?
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You can say,
'Oh, this is my body. This is my ring.
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This is my house. This is my car.'
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My, my, my. This belongs to me.
My, my, my. Everything belongs to you.
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This is my family. This is my mother.
This is my house.
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This is my country. This is my passport.
This is my birth certificate.
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All 'my', meaning they belong to you.
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But can you say,
This is my my? This is my me?'
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You can't say, 'This is my me.'
Why?
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[Q.1] Because I cannot see this.
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[M.] Yes.
So because you can't see it,
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[M.] does it mean it's not there?
[Q.1] No.
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[M.] Right.
So there's something in the world,
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everything you can see,
but something you cannot see.
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Everything you can see,
but something you cannot see.
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And yet you cannot deny that it is real, isn't it?
You know you are.
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Now, I'm going to zoom in a little bit closer
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in this feeling that, 'Yes, I know I am.'
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This thing which you cannot see,
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that you say, 'You know it is here.'
I mean, it's the first fact,
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because if it's not here,
nothing else is here, isn't it?
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But it cannot be seen, yeah?
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OK, so we are back to this point.
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Everything you can see, everything;
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your thoughts, feelings, objects, people,
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your feelings, all of these things, you can see.
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You can even see
the quality of your sight, isn't it?
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So if you went to the optician
and he says,
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'Could you tell me something,
why you come here?'
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You said, 'Actually, I'm not able to see
or focus on things so well.'
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He said, 'In both eyes?'
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You say, 'No, no, in the right eye.'
'OK, tell me something.'
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You said, 'In the left eye, I can see
maybe 80% of what it should be,
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but in the right eye it's like about 50.'
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So something must be seeing sight, isn't it?
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The capacity is there.
You don't have to ask anybody.
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You can see, yeah,
something is aware of even the sight
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is not functioning well.
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So something must be behind even the sight.
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You're also aware of feelings,
emotion,
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sense of time. If somebody said,
'Yesterday something happened',
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you're aware of what that means.
Everything you're aware of.
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Everything you can see.
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But your Self, can you see?
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Why?
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Your body you can see.
Your body you can see.
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You can see your smile.
You can see your body.
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You can see everything.
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But your Self,
is seeing your body [seeing] your Self?
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Why not?
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[Q.1] Because something is aware of ...
[M.] Yeah.
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[Q.1] ... of the body.
[M.] Yes.
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That something which is aware of the body
cannot be seen.
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[M.] You're saying, no?
[Q.1] Yeah.
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[M.] Can it see sickness?
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It can know, 'I'm not feeling well'.
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'I'm not feeling ...'
It knows emotion.
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'I'm feeling a little a bit uncomfortable.'
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It sees everything.
But itself it cannot see.
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You're saying? Yeah.
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Why can it see everything,
but it cannot see itself?
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[Q.1] This I don't know.
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[M.] This which cannot ...
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You can see everything,
but you cannot see your Self.
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This which you cannot see,
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yet you cannot deny it,
this is your Self.
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Everything you can see,
your feelings, thoughts,
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and the function of intellect.
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Everything you can see.
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But that which is seeing them,
you say, 'I can see.' [VERIFY]
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It's sort of,
the word 'I' represents this thing,
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but it cannot be seen.
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Even your mother can come and say,
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'Darling, it's nice to see you.'
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What is the 'you' that she's seeing?
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[Q.1] The body.
[M.] The body.
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And she's seeing her affection,
her memory of you.
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All this she puts to become you.
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'Darling, it's so nice.
I haven't seen you for a long time.'
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So whatever someone says,
'It's good to see you.
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Where have you been? You put on weight'
or, 'You lost some.'
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All of this is to do with what?
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[Q.1] Appearance.
[M.] Your form and appearance, OK?
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[M.] So can she see You?
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Can you see You? Is that scary?
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[Q.1] No, it's not scary, but it's ...
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Something is missing or feels like ...
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[M.] OK, take a moment
and think about what is missing.
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You cannot see your True Self.
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I also cannot see my True Self.
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Why?
Because it's not an object.
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It's not even a thought.
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[Q.1] But you say to stay as this.
But... [laughs]
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[M.] Well. OK, OK, thank you.
I say to stay as this. Why?
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Because, first of all,
you imagine something else to be yourself.
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You call yourself a woman,
a daughter, you're from this country,
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my parents, I'm ... Whatever. Like this.
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So we're used to associating some quality
that represents you.
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But really, you're earlier than this,
in the purity.
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The one that is aware,
that says ...
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You're talking on the phone,
'I'm 27 years old. I've got two children.
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I'm married. I live in this place.'
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That one, is what?
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[Q.1] Person.
[M.] The person.
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Is the person and the Self,
the True Self, is the same thing?
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[Q.1] No.
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[M.] Does that bring a feeling of discomfort?
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No. No. Because there's nothing
you have to do to know that.
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You, something knows.
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Yet most people in the world,
have not even looked like this.
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They have not even thought about this,
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because your world starts with your person.
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If I employ you, I look at you, I interview,
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I say, Tell me about yourself.
You say, 'I studied this in university.
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I lived in South Africa for a while. I travelled.'
Information, information.
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Information cannot be You.
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It's about your person.
Which is, what is the person?
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[Q.1] This identity is person.
[M.] Yes, yes.
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[M.] Can you see the identity person?
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[Q.] Yeah.
[M.] What does it look like?
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[Q.1] Some tightness, some attachment.
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[M.] Attachment.
[Q.1] To ideas.
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[M.] Yes. Attachment to some ideas, OK.
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But the person is also an idea.
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[Q.1] This is the problem,
because it really feels real. So, yeah.
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[M.] Because it is the feeling 'I' in you,
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this 'I', it says,
'I see', 'I think', 'I ...' Da, da, da.
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Who is the 'I' that thinks.
We're not sure, the person or the real Self?
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'I want'.
'Yes, I know.'
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Who is the 'I' that knows?
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Is it personal or impersonal?
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[Q.1] Personal.
[M.] It's personal. OK, good.
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[M.] What sees it's impersonal?
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[Q.1] I don't know what.
I know it's something is seeing but ...
234
00:16:37,250 --> 00:16:40,953
[M.] Yes. It's the same answer.
You've given the answer already.
235
00:16:40,953 --> 00:16:43,509
It cannot be seen.
236
00:16:43,509 --> 00:16:47,460
This is the most important discovery,
237
00:16:47,460 --> 00:16:52,229
because until you really
realise this and know this,
238
00:16:52,229 --> 00:16:56,097
you take yourself to be an object
perceiving another object.
239
00:16:56,097 --> 00:17:00,116
The object being your person.
And it's OK, it's OK.
240
00:17:00,116 --> 00:17:04,172
God made it like that,
that we would also be projected
241
00:17:04,172 --> 00:17:07,960
into the world of thought
and feeling and association
242
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,870
and say, 'This is me'.
For a while.
243
00:17:10,870 --> 00:17:15,748
But with this 'I', that works as the person,
244
00:17:15,748 --> 00:17:21,136
its world and itself is never stable,
245
00:17:21,136 --> 00:17:25,120
because it has an identity.
246
00:17:25,120 --> 00:17:30,144
Is the identity of the person
always stable? No, no.
247
00:17:30,144 --> 00:17:35,560
But it tries with everything
to share that it is stable.
248
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:44,200
Because stable means, it's wise, it's real.
It's dependable. It's consistent.
249
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,960
I'm just talking this through.
250
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:51,261
But I'm pointing to a deeper knowing
behind this person
251
00:17:51,261 --> 00:17:56,240
that knows the person, that sees the person.
252
00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,439
That which is aware of the person ...
You're with me?
253
00:18:00,439 --> 00:18:04,410
Is it attached to the person
or is the person attached to it?
254
00:18:04,410 --> 00:18:07,367
Take a moment.
255
00:18:11,070 --> 00:18:15,679
[Q.1] It's not attached.
[M.] It's not attached.
256
00:18:15,679 --> 00:18:19,390
[M.] Does it suffer from not being attached?
257
00:18:19,390 --> 00:18:23,654
[Q.1] No. [laughs]
258
00:18:23,654 --> 00:18:28,337
[M.] But I had to question you,
for you to recede to that place,
259
00:18:28,337 --> 00:18:30,860
to say, 'It's not attached.'
260
00:18:30,860 --> 00:18:33,860
Because where we are functioning normally
261
00:18:33,860 --> 00:18:37,597
is from the identity of the person,
which is attached.
262
00:18:37,597 --> 00:18:40,040
Which likes and dislikes.
263
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,392
Who wants and doesn't want.
264
00:18:42,392 --> 00:18:45,365
Who thinks this and thinks that.
265
00:18:45,365 --> 00:18:50,237
And very much is in the function
of perceiving and living, no?
266
00:18:50,237 --> 00:18:53,851
So, what I'm sharing,
is that, that's OK.
267
00:18:53,851 --> 00:19:00,491
But if you only are aware of yourself
as a person, with its world,
268
00:19:00,491 --> 00:19:05,210
you will never be totally happy.
Because it's not stable.
269
00:19:05,210 --> 00:19:09,217
Today, 'Ah, I'm so happy.
I'm so ... Oh, so wonderful!'
270
00:19:09,217 --> 00:19:13,322
Tomorrow I see you ... [imitates struggling]
271
00:19:13,322 --> 00:19:18,431
I say, Mia, what's up?
'It's OK, I don't want to talk about it.'
272
00:19:18,431 --> 00:19:22,694
[M.] Who is it, who is speaking? Person, no?
[Q.1] Yes.
273
00:19:22,694 --> 00:19:27,734
[M.] What does the Self say?
What does the real Self say?
274
00:19:27,734 --> 00:19:30,430
Is it important at all?
275
00:19:30,430 --> 00:19:33,586
[M.] No. Is the Self important?
[Q.1] No.
276
00:19:33,586 --> 00:19:35,834
[M.] It's not important?
[Q.1] No.
277
00:19:35,834 --> 00:19:39,791
[M.] Does that mean it's no good?
It's not significant?
278
00:19:39,791 --> 00:19:43,960
The Self is not important?
It's not important?
279
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,471
OK, so what's the purpose
of it existing then?
280
00:19:47,471 --> 00:19:50,804
If other things after it are important,
like the person;
281
00:19:50,804 --> 00:19:54,365
personal identity is important,
personal world is important,
282
00:19:54,365 --> 00:19:56,954
personal attachment is important.
283
00:19:56,954 --> 00:20:02,525
But the one before all of this comes,
which cannot be removed,
284
00:20:02,525 --> 00:20:06,572
can the Self be killed? No.
285
00:20:06,572 --> 00:20:14,040
And you say, I like that, actually,
'It's not important.' OK?
286
00:20:16,450 --> 00:20:20,710
[M.] What is important?
287
00:20:20,710 --> 00:20:25,525
[Q.1] I feel this exercise is important to do.
[M.] Yes.
288
00:20:25,525 --> 00:20:30,030
[M.] Why is it important, the exercise?
289
00:20:33,747 --> 00:20:36,751
[Q.1] To stabilise in this.
[M.] Yes.
290
00:20:36,751 --> 00:20:41,133
[M.] Is it the Self, the inmost Self,
that has to stabilise,
291
00:20:41,133 --> 00:20:44,870
[M.] or something else has to stabilise?
[Q.1] Something else.
292
00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:46,877
[M.] Right.
293
00:20:46,877 --> 00:20:51,170
Why does it need to stabilise,
the something else?
294
00:20:51,170 --> 00:20:57,502
[Q.1] Not to get pulled into identity.
295
00:20:57,502 --> 00:21:04,262
[M.] Yes. What is it that gets pulled
into identity, is it the Self?
296
00:21:04,262 --> 00:21:08,321
[Q.1] Attention.
[M.] Attention. Attention gets pulled.
297
00:21:08,321 --> 00:21:11,772
[M.] So attention is very important.
[Q.1] Yes.
298
00:21:11,772 --> 00:21:15,952
[M.] When the attention gets pulled into identity,
299
00:21:15,952 --> 00:21:18,522
what knows it most deeply;
300
00:21:18,522 --> 00:21:25,223
the attention, the mind, the person,
or the inmost Self?
301
00:21:25,223 --> 00:21:28,825
[Q.1] The Self. The inmost Self.
[M.] The Self.
302
00:21:28,825 --> 00:21:32,026
[M.] Does it suffer?
[Q.1] No.
303
00:21:32,026 --> 00:21:34,707
[M.] No. Still it's important,
304
00:21:34,707 --> 00:21:39,320
because every time the attention
goes out and forgets itself,
305
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,268
[M.] it forgets where it comes from.
[Q.1] Yeah. [laughs]
306
00:21:43,268 --> 00:21:48,360
[M.] Every time the attention goes out,
gets involved in its projections,
307
00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:50,431
it causes some pain.
308
00:21:50,431 --> 00:21:55,105
It creates a kind of a world,
it creates emotion,
309
00:21:55,105 --> 00:21:58,360
it creates ups and downs, like this,
310
00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:01,319
and something is troubled by that.
311
00:22:01,319 --> 00:22:04,695
Maybe the person is troubled by that.
312
00:22:04,695 --> 00:22:08,055
And in our world,
everything is due to the person.
313
00:22:08,055 --> 00:22:11,287
It's the person that takes
another person to court.
314
00:22:11,287 --> 00:22:16,690
It's the person that wins or lose.
What about the Self?
315
00:22:18,346 --> 00:22:21,777
[Q.1] Nothing. [laughs]
[M.] Is it important to know this?
316
00:22:21,777 --> 00:22:24,273
[Q.1] Yeah.
[M.] Yeah.
317
00:22:24,273 --> 00:22:29,230
OK, so when we speak about ...
I'll come back to your letter now.
318
00:22:29,230 --> 00:22:35,940
You say, 'I don't know
how to observe with detachment.'
319
00:22:35,940 --> 00:22:40,860
Does the Self need to know
how to observe with detachment?
320
00:22:40,860 --> 00:22:45,179
[Questioner shakes head, no]
[M.] Why?
321
00:22:45,179 --> 00:22:50,230
[Q.1] It doesn't need anything.
[M.] It doesn't need anything.
322
00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:53,950
[M.] Yet everything is known to it.
323
00:22:53,950 --> 00:22:57,824
The play of the mind,
or da da da da, it knows,
324
00:22:57,824 --> 00:23:02,847
[M.] but it's not impacted upon.
[Q.1] No.
325
00:23:02,847 --> 00:23:09,497
[M.] There is a link between
the sense of the person and the inner Self.
326
00:23:09,497 --> 00:23:16,405
When the person,
who cannot exist without the inner Self,
327
00:23:16,405 --> 00:23:22,919
when it gets into states of confusion and pain,
328
00:23:22,919 --> 00:23:26,794
if it doesn't realise its root as the inner Self,
329
00:23:26,794 --> 00:23:29,601
it goes floating off and trouble can come.
330
00:23:29,601 --> 00:23:33,454
Mental problems can come.
Sickness can come. Anger can come.
331
00:23:33,454 --> 00:23:35,517
Fear comes. Everything comes.
332
00:23:35,517 --> 00:23:39,266
So it's very important that
this personal sense
333
00:23:39,266 --> 00:23:41,808
becomes aware of its root.
334
00:23:41,808 --> 00:23:47,965
[Q.1] Yes, and when I try
to do this exercise, I cannot come to this.
335
00:23:47,965 --> 00:23:53,034
[M.] Who is doing the exercise?
[Q.1] Yes, the mind and the person
336
00:23:53,034 --> 00:23:58,117
[Q.1] and the one who wants to stop suffering.
[M.] Right.
337
00:23:58,117 --> 00:24:01,099
[M.] What knows this?
338
00:24:03,933 --> 00:24:08,516
What is aware of this?
Is it the person-mind or the inner Self?
339
00:24:08,516 --> 00:24:12,310
[Q.1] The inner Self.
[M.] Yeah. Is the inner Self troubled?
340
00:24:12,310 --> 00:24:14,415
[Q.1] No.
341
00:24:14,415 --> 00:24:18,862
[M.] Still, the exercise is good,
because this is the real yoga.
342
00:24:18,862 --> 00:24:22,965
Yoga means the coming together into oneness,
343
00:24:22,965 --> 00:24:28,966
where the sense of the person
has to rediscover its root.
344
00:24:28,966 --> 00:24:32,107
The person cannot live by itself.
345
00:24:32,107 --> 00:24:37,688
Even when it's not aware of the Self,
it still comes from the Self.
346
00:24:37,688 --> 00:24:43,070
So largely the human expression
of the consciousness self
347
00:24:43,070 --> 00:24:46,518
is self-aware as a person.
348
00:24:46,518 --> 00:24:51,096
And so it can go for lifetimes,
in the human lifetime, living the person,
349
00:24:51,096 --> 00:24:55,162
because it's a big world, its dreams,
and 'I have to go do this.
350
00:24:55,162 --> 00:25:00,087
I like this, I don't like that,' and da da da.
Maybe life after life.
351
00:25:00,087 --> 00:25:03,766
'This life I love, I love ice cream.
I'd die for ice cream.'
352
00:25:03,766 --> 00:25:09,155
Next life, 'I can't stand ice cream.'
There's nothing consistent about it.
353
00:25:09,155 --> 00:25:13,568
Except that it cannot exist
without the real Self,
354
00:25:13,568 --> 00:25:16,113
and it has intelligence also.
355
00:25:16,113 --> 00:25:21,740
So, when it happens to this personal self,
356
00:25:21,740 --> 00:25:25,388
for some reason,
it's being attracted to find out,
357
00:25:25,388 --> 00:25:27,780
maybe it suffers enough in the world
358
00:25:27,780 --> 00:25:31,710
and it wants to find a solution for it.
359
00:25:31,710 --> 00:25:37,460
And the only solid solution
is to discover where it comes from,
360
00:25:37,460 --> 00:25:42,540
and that where it come from, and itself, are one.
361
00:25:42,540 --> 00:25:44,820
That's what the search of life is.
362
00:25:44,820 --> 00:25:49,160
Because all the beings who are not aware
of this oneness with the Self,
363
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:54,800
all of them suffer. All have problem. You see.
364
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,020
So this is the purpose of our satsang,
365
00:25:59,020 --> 00:26:03,630
is that the consciousness,
in the form of a person,
366
00:26:03,630 --> 00:26:05,930
becomes attracted to its root,
367
00:26:05,930 --> 00:26:09,700
and not just attracted
to the world in front of it.
368
00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:14,689
And so this exercise like detachment,
meaning that whatever is going on,
369
00:26:14,689 --> 00:26:19,560
to go in the world, to do,
the this, and self-image,
370
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,012
self-image, self-assessments,
371
00:26:22,012 --> 00:26:29,130
all of this is a play of the mind,
is mind states.
372
00:26:29,130 --> 00:26:35,790
And it has to realise that
all states are changeful, okay,
373
00:26:35,790 --> 00:26:41,040
and that it can witness them,
it can observe them, without being them.
374
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:46,209
In fact, you can only observe something
because you're not it, actually.
375
00:26:46,209 --> 00:26:54,190
And that there's a capacity
even in the person to observe,
376
00:26:54,190 --> 00:26:59,240
and in observing them
it knows that it's not them.
377
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,830
And that characteristic is like its parent.
378
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:08,194
You see, the person, the characteristic
of looking and realising that,
379
00:27:08,194 --> 00:27:14,840
'Whatever I see is only an impression,
a thought, and a feeling,
380
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,150
but it's not what I am,'
that's called awakening
381
00:27:19,150 --> 00:27:22,680
It's waking up to the fact that nothing out here
382
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,060
comes through the mind or the senses,
383
00:27:25,060 --> 00:27:30,140
nothing of there can be fundamental to me.
All of it is changing.
384
00:27:30,140 --> 00:27:36,390
And even myself as the person
who is looking and knowing this,
385
00:27:36,390 --> 00:27:40,533
it's like on the verge of this way - world.
386
00:27:40,533 --> 00:27:43,520
This way - into the abyss of the Self.
387
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,310
Because it has a capacity that when it looks
388
00:27:46,310 --> 00:27:51,980
and is not identified with what it sees
or what its experience is,
389
00:27:51,980 --> 00:27:55,810
each thing comes, like life is saying,
'This thing and this thing.'
390
00:27:55,810 --> 00:28:00,380
And it's saying, 'No, it's not this.
It's not this. What I am is not this.'
391
00:28:00,380 --> 00:28:07,510
As you keep doing that, it naturally
comes back to its original Self-awareness.
392
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:10,399
And I say, Self-awareness,
non-dual Self-awareness,
393
00:28:10,399 --> 00:28:14,150
like not one thing, not a divided union,
394
00:28:14,150 --> 00:28:17,900
but a harmony comes back into realising,
395
00:28:17,900 --> 00:28:22,030
'But here nothing is happening to me.'
396
00:28:22,030 --> 00:28:25,008
When I go into the mind, into identity,
397
00:28:25,008 --> 00:28:27,560
then happenings becomes relevant.
398
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:33,100
But if I even can observe
and be aware of even my person,
399
00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:37,890
which is like my person is like the...
400
00:28:37,890 --> 00:28:43,300
What you call this?
The binoculars that sees the world,
401
00:28:43,300 --> 00:28:45,490
but the person who sees the world
402
00:28:45,490 --> 00:28:48,070
is also seen from the place of the Self.
403
00:28:48,070 --> 00:28:54,250
When it knows this, it's coming back into
conscious harmony.
404
00:28:54,250 --> 00:28:56,860
That's all the thing of detachment is.
405
00:28:56,860 --> 00:29:00,990
You don't have to kill anything.
It's just understanding.
406
00:29:00,990 --> 00:29:05,170
The realisation of the Self
is a journey of understanding,
407
00:29:05,170 --> 00:29:07,790
and understanding your misunderstanding.
408
00:29:07,790 --> 00:29:10,619
So it's simple. Unless we get it,
it might seem,
409
00:29:10,619 --> 00:29:14,420
'It's the most complex thing.' Why?
Because you're not used to doing it.
410
00:29:14,420 --> 00:29:18,740
You're looking—each one is
used to looking forward, looking outward.
411
00:29:18,740 --> 00:29:22,430
Even sometimes when you think
we're looking inward into our mind,
412
00:29:22,430 --> 00:29:25,391
it's still outward from the inner Self.
413
00:29:25,391 --> 00:29:28,190
Q1: Yeah, and this happens a lot,
414
00:29:28,190 --> 00:29:33,150
because I go in, in and then it's the body.
415
00:29:33,150 --> 00:29:36,320
I cannot go beyond.
M: You're in the body-mind.
416
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,040
But something behind that knows this thing.
417
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:44,610
The mind cannot make an ultimate realisation
418
00:29:44,610 --> 00:29:48,410
without becoming the realisation.
419
00:29:48,410 --> 00:29:53,860
The mind or the person
cannot come to ultimate realisation
420
00:29:53,860 --> 00:29:57,340
and remain independent of that realisation.
421
00:29:57,340 --> 00:30:04,710
The more it becomes aware,
the more it finds it is. Not that it has.
422
00:30:04,710 --> 00:30:08,560
And this is very significant thing.
423
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:13,840
Nobody can have the realisation
and be somebody who has realisation.
424
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,060
What it means is that, the idea of yourself
425
00:30:17,060 --> 00:30:21,280
as being only the person,
subsides again, and is seen,
426
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:26,450
it is seen as also the most subtle object.
427
00:30:26,450 --> 00:30:31,280
This subtle object of a person
is behaving like a subject,
428
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,260
and that everything in its world is the object.
429
00:30:34,260 --> 00:30:38,370
But to the Self, it also is the first object.
430
00:30:38,370 --> 00:30:44,830
The first object shines as this feeling 'I',
'I am here'.
431
00:30:44,830 --> 00:30:48,800
You know, 'Mia!' 'Yeah, I'm here.'
What it means, 'I am here'?
432
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:53,190
The reference normally is, 'Look, I'm over here.
433
00:30:53,190 --> 00:30:56,520
And this is okay, this is normal,
this is the only place
434
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,090
where language can exist, in that way.
435
00:30:59,090 --> 00:31:01,920
The language is for the sense of the person
436
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:07,020
having relationship with what it likes or dislike.
437
00:31:07,020 --> 00:31:10,000
Actually, there's nothing wrong
with this, ultimately.
438
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,720
Because even as you wake up
again to realise that,
439
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,340
whatever happens, it's seen from this place.
440
00:31:16,340 --> 00:31:18,740
But this place cannot be seen,
441
00:31:18,740 --> 00:31:23,860
and that I can only really be this place.
442
00:31:23,860 --> 00:31:27,875
Then when you really know this,
the dynamic expression of this,
443
00:31:27,875 --> 00:31:31,359
which is like of being a person,
that can still play,
444
00:31:31,359 --> 00:31:34,820
but it won't have that delusion in it.
445
00:31:34,820 --> 00:31:38,750
Q1: Yes. This delusion has to go.
446
00:31:38,750 --> 00:31:41,831
M: No, it needs to be understood.
Q1: Yeah.
447
00:31:41,831 --> 00:31:44,690
M: It doesn't go. Why it needs to go?
448
00:31:44,690 --> 00:31:47,813
Because you are combining it with your identity
449
00:31:47,813 --> 00:31:50,320
and it hurts like, 'No, no, no, no.'
450
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,440
But all this now,
you're going to see all of this
451
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,180
are constructs of the mind.
452
00:31:56,180 --> 00:32:00,236
And the self is just a psychological portrait
453
00:32:00,236 --> 00:32:03,290
of the mind, of the person.
454
00:32:03,290 --> 00:32:07,750
But the inner being, which has no shape,
you can't identify and say,
455
00:32:07,750 --> 00:32:11,000
'Ah I found the inner being.'
You cannot do that.
456
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:16,090
Because anything you can do that with,
is an object in the perception.
457
00:32:17,910 --> 00:32:20,090
M: You got it, isn't it?
Q1: Yes.
458
00:32:20,090 --> 00:32:24,690
M: Okay. So okay, so prove your problem.
Go on.
459
00:32:41,850 --> 00:32:45,810
You see, you will need to sit with this,
more and more.
460
00:32:45,810 --> 00:32:49,530
Because it's like shape shifting.
One minute you think you're looking
461
00:32:49,530 --> 00:32:55,130
and the next minute you're involved, invested.
462
00:32:55,130 --> 00:33:02,340
Don't get angry about this,
because it's been happening for lifetimes.
463
00:33:02,340 --> 00:33:04,610
So, let it happen, it's okay.
464
00:33:04,610 --> 00:33:08,230
Just keep seeing, but wait a minute,
this can be seen also.
465
00:33:08,230 --> 00:33:13,920
The most intimate
is also an object of perception.
466
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,360
The most intimate,
because 'intimate' means at least two.
467
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,280
If there's not two, there is no intimate.
468
00:33:28,187 --> 00:33:34,050
Can you be confused, 'you',
in the light of what I'm sharing?
469
00:33:34,050 --> 00:33:36,830
Q1: No, no.
M: Thank you.
470
00:33:36,830 --> 00:33:39,980
But you can be aware of confusion.
Q1: Yeah.
471
00:33:39,980 --> 00:33:44,450
M: If you can be aware of confusion
without identifying with confusion,
472
00:33:44,450 --> 00:33:47,430
are you cheating?
473
00:33:47,430 --> 00:33:50,280
Q1: No, no. [laughs]
474
00:33:52,389 --> 00:33:54,899
M: Very good.
475
00:33:56,850 --> 00:34:01,550
So let's start again from the beginning.
What's your problem?
476
00:34:09,630 --> 00:34:16,350
Q1: That when I do this exercise,
I believe I need to find something.
477
00:34:16,350 --> 00:34:20,803
M: 'I' being what? Qualify your status here.
478
00:34:20,803 --> 00:34:22,800
Q1: The person.
479
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,020
M: When the person do the exercise?
Q1: Yeah.
480
00:34:26,020 --> 00:34:31,310
M: There's another word for person
in this exercise,
481
00:34:31,310 --> 00:34:34,100
I would call it,
482
00:34:34,100 --> 00:34:42,830
when the personalised intelligence of the truth,
483
00:34:42,830 --> 00:34:48,030
when the personal intelligence of God
484
00:34:48,030 --> 00:34:54,750
gets confused with its projections,
then it's like it's lost to itself.
485
00:34:54,750 --> 00:34:57,040
It's like it's lost to itself.
486
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,910
When that loss to itself becomes painful,
487
00:35:01,910 --> 00:35:07,500
you're on the brink of awakening.
You understand?
488
00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:12,000
Because if you're not troubled by it,
then you will not go beyond it.
489
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:17,140
Q1: When it's just pain, pain, pain. [laughs]
490
00:35:17,140 --> 00:35:22,360
M: 'No pain, no gain,' they say.
You have to...
491
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:27,950
It's like, in a way,
you're giving birth to yourself.
492
00:35:27,950 --> 00:35:35,470
Q1: Because I sit and I do,
but I feel like there is no result.
493
00:35:35,470 --> 00:35:39,480
M: You, again, who is sitting and looking, is what?
494
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,670
Q1: The person.
[laughter]
495
00:35:44,970 --> 00:35:47,808
M: Does it matter that
we are catching it like that?
496
00:35:47,808 --> 00:35:49,910
That it's the person doing it,
497
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:54,250
and that what the person cries about today,
laughs about another moment,
498
00:35:54,250 --> 00:35:56,810
that it's not consistent.
499
00:35:56,810 --> 00:36:01,030
And even if it says, 'Eureka, I found the Self!'
Can it be true?
500
00:36:01,030 --> 00:36:03,460
Q1: No.
M: Why not?
501
00:36:03,460 --> 00:36:06,010
Q1: Because it cannot be seen.
502
00:36:06,010 --> 00:36:10,238
Q1: And if it lends to some illusion of...
503
00:36:10,238 --> 00:36:14,550
M: So then what's the practice for?
504
00:36:18,210 --> 00:36:22,650
Q1: To become aware of all this—
505
00:36:27,670 --> 00:36:34,100
wrong ideas.
M: Yeah, that's one way we can put it.
506
00:36:34,100 --> 00:36:36,880
Tell me another way we can put it.
That's good.
507
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,970
I take that, to become aware
of all these kind of little—
508
00:36:40,970 --> 00:36:46,720
all these little kind of distortions
of understanding,
509
00:36:46,720 --> 00:36:50,950
to become aware of them.
More subtle than that.
510
00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:56,710
By becoming aware of them,
you become aware of what?
511
00:36:56,710 --> 00:37:01,650
Q1: Of that which is seeing.
M: Is seeing, yeah.
512
00:37:01,650 --> 00:37:07,070
How can you become...
be aware of it phenomenally?
513
00:37:07,070 --> 00:37:09,860
Can you become aware of it phenomenally?
514
00:37:09,860 --> 00:37:11,940
Q1: No.
M: No.
515
00:37:11,940 --> 00:37:15,390
So therefore, you become aware of what?
516
00:37:15,390 --> 00:37:20,720
Q1: It feels like it's just the moments
of this awareness.
517
00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:25,152
M: Yeah. It will flicker before,
because you're not used to it.
518
00:37:25,152 --> 00:37:27,894
The reflex is used to going out and connecting
519
00:37:27,894 --> 00:37:31,280
with objects of projections
and perception, used to that.
520
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,160
But now I'm asking you to...
All this is happening for everyone.
521
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,500
And even the one who says,
'But this is happening to me,
522
00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:42,160
and I find it frustrating!'
With where I'm asking you to do,
523
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:47,980
is to see that that also
is an aspect of the mind.
524
00:37:47,980 --> 00:37:51,230
But all of these aspects, they came originally
525
00:37:51,230 --> 00:37:55,850
from out of this projection forward.
Can you see?
526
00:37:55,850 --> 00:37:57,870
Q1: Yeah.
M: Yeah.
527
00:37:57,870 --> 00:38:06,396
And that the real opportunity
is in seeing this.
528
00:38:06,396 --> 00:38:10,130
But still something is feeling,
'No, but mind is still troubling.
529
00:38:10,130 --> 00:38:15,530
Mind is still troubling.'
No, don't worry. It's troubling who?
530
00:38:15,530 --> 00:38:20,130
Who is the mind troubling?
531
00:38:20,130 --> 00:38:23,836
We can say together after three. One, two, three.
Q1: No one.
532
00:38:23,836 --> 00:38:27,350
M: The person. Oh, no one!
Oh, you beat me to it!
533
00:38:27,350 --> 00:38:31,220
It's troubling no one!
It's troubling no one.
534
00:38:31,220 --> 00:38:35,500
That's a better answer than the person.
[Questioner laughs]
535
00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:37,560
M: You see this?
Q1: Yeah.
536
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,690
M: Okay.
537
00:38:40,740 --> 00:38:43,760
So now what?
538
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,710
It's enough or not enough?
539
00:38:54,410 --> 00:38:57,331
Q1: I don't know.
540
00:38:57,331 --> 00:39:02,530
M: Who is saying? Who is...
Where this answer is coming from?
541
00:39:06,930 --> 00:39:10,530
I can accept it, or I can question it,
'I don't know.'
542
00:39:10,530 --> 00:39:15,080
'I'-who don't know?
543
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,700
Q1: It's the person.
M: It's the person.
544
00:39:17,700 --> 00:39:19,770
Q1: Yeah.
M: Yeah, sure?
545
00:39:19,770 --> 00:39:23,307
Q1: No. [laughs]
M: It can be from the person.
546
00:39:23,307 --> 00:39:26,010
If you say it's from the person, okay,
547
00:39:26,010 --> 00:39:28,800
then I would say, You give me one more move.
548
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:34,380
But what's aware that it's coming from the person?
549
00:39:34,380 --> 00:39:39,290
Q1: Yes. Something feels like it's not satisfied,
550
00:39:39,290 --> 00:39:45,470
but I should not go after.
551
00:39:45,470 --> 00:39:49,220
M: Yes. This is a powerful seeing,
552
00:39:49,220 --> 00:39:51,760
'Something feels not satisfied.'
553
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:57,360
That which feels not satisfied,
it's personal or impersonal?
554
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,680
Q1: It's personal.
M: Personal.
555
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,150
You see, if that gets you each time,
like the person goes,
556
00:40:04,150 --> 00:40:09,780
'Yeah, I know, Guruji,
but, you know, can't get... ' Who's speaking?
557
00:40:09,780 --> 00:40:12,580
Q1: Person.
M: Yeah.
558
00:40:12,580 --> 00:40:15,260
So we will finish on that note?
559
00:40:15,260 --> 00:40:21,740
Q1: Uh, person? No. [laughs]
M: Thank you. Okay. Where?
560
00:40:29,230 --> 00:40:33,660
What does finish mean?
561
00:40:33,660 --> 00:40:37,907
Q1: Just this conversation.
Finish the conversation.
562
00:40:37,907 --> 00:40:43,740
M: The conversation can finish
in its oral manifestation.
563
00:40:43,740 --> 00:40:46,610
It may go to be some kind of little stuff
564
00:40:46,610 --> 00:40:49,820
in the mind that feels like,
'Yeah, I don't know.
565
00:40:49,820 --> 00:40:53,060
I had a talk with Mooji,
and it was really clear,
566
00:40:53,060 --> 00:40:56,050
but now it's not clear.' Is report from?
567
00:40:56,050 --> 00:40:58,360
Q1: The mind.
M: From the mind.
568
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,080
And it is that ultimate?
Q1: No.
569
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:06,300
M: No. What is ultimate?
570
00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:09,570
Q1: That which is aware of this.
571
00:41:09,570 --> 00:41:12,280
M: Yes, yes.
572
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,810
M: Which is where?
573
00:41:15,810 --> 00:41:18,810
Q1: It's nowhere.
574
00:41:18,810 --> 00:41:22,240
M: Why are you smiling?
[Questioner laughs]
575
00:41:28,630 --> 00:41:34,200
So, you have a problem?
576
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,560
Q1: No.
[Laughter]
577
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:42,800
Can you, from this place of answering,
ever have a problem?
578
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,649
Q1: No. No.
579
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:56,069
M: Are you sad or happy about this?
580
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,689
Q1: Nothing.
M: Very good.
581
00:42:04,850 --> 00:42:08,859
More subtle than even happy.
582
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,039
Yeah. We're good?
583
00:42:19,620 --> 00:42:22,720
If you go walking
and the mind comes again and says,
584
00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:26,710
'I can't remember anything about that.
585
00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:30,627
I'm going to try and see if I can
get that mood back.' Was it a mood?
586
00:42:30,627 --> 00:42:34,170
Q1: No.
M: It's not a mood. [laughter]
587
00:42:34,170 --> 00:42:38,670
Can you lose this?
588
00:42:38,670 --> 00:42:40,890
Q1: No.
M: No.
589
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,419
Can you possess this?
Q1: No.
590
00:42:49,550 --> 00:42:52,549
M: Very good.
591
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,980
I'm happy. Very good.
592
00:42:58,980 --> 00:43:02,670
So, the rest I don't have to read, no?
593
00:43:02,670 --> 00:43:06,868
[Reads letter] 'I don't know how to
be aware that I am aware.
594
00:43:06,868 --> 00:43:08,960
[Questioner laughs]
595
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:14,830
I still see this 'I'-identity as real.
Please help, Mia.'
596
00:43:14,830 --> 00:43:16,970
Do we need?
Q1: No.
597
00:43:16,970 --> 00:43:21,830
M: Very good. Can I keep it?
Q1: Yes. I mean, throw it.
598
00:43:21,830 --> 00:43:25,309
M: Throw it, keep it.
I'm happy you're like this. It's good.
599
00:43:25,309 --> 00:43:31,550
Q1: You don't need to keep it.
M: Because this, [touches letter]
600
00:43:31,550 --> 00:43:37,319
I call it an auspicious reaching out
to clarify something.
601
00:43:37,319 --> 00:43:42,201
And to that extent, it's very...
602
00:43:42,201 --> 00:43:44,760
I mean, it's not a game.
603
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:50,719
We can say it is like a game,
but it's not a cynical game.
604
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:57,249
It's, you may say, a game or a play or
605
00:43:57,249 --> 00:44:02,250
something that needs to happen
606
00:44:02,250 --> 00:44:06,460
to the human expression of consciousness,
607
00:44:06,460 --> 00:44:11,230
when it comes to a stage where
its world is not working.
608
00:44:11,230 --> 00:44:14,170
And I don't see that as a disaster.
609
00:44:14,170 --> 00:44:18,070
I see it as opportunity
to look behind the scene.
610
00:44:18,070 --> 00:44:23,080
Q1: Yes, yes. I want to take
every opportunity to look.
611
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:27,010
M: Okay. Now? Right now?
612
00:44:27,010 --> 00:44:30,860
Q1: Always, yeah, now.
M: Yeah. Okay.
613
00:44:30,860 --> 00:44:33,790
Do you need to look further now?
614
00:44:33,790 --> 00:44:36,755
Q1: I can do, yeah.
M: Yeah.
615
00:44:36,755 --> 00:44:40,390
M: Yeah. Good.
Q1: Yeah, yeah. [laughs]
616
00:44:40,390 --> 00:44:44,529
M: Thank you. Very good.
617
00:44:47,590 --> 00:44:50,326
And you don't need to talk
to anybody about it.
618
00:44:50,326 --> 00:44:53,636
Just you sit with that, and watch.
619
00:44:53,636 --> 00:45:00,720
And however tricky the mind can be,
you remember, it is secondary.
620
00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:04,030
That which is primary, is seeing that.
621
00:45:04,030 --> 00:45:08,020
And the mind can come in the form
of thought or moods or sensation,
622
00:45:08,020 --> 00:45:10,780
it can appear like confusion,
623
00:45:10,780 --> 00:45:16,320
it appears as identity,
but it's still only appearing.
624
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:21,610
Can the Self appear? No.
625
00:45:21,610 --> 00:45:26,589
So it causes the appearing
of the mind play and the diversity.
626
00:45:26,589 --> 00:45:32,090
But it itself is indescribable actually.
627
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,230
So at this point I would say,
sit and contemplate that.
628
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:41,360
Yeah. That's all you have to do.
629
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:47,320
You see, it sounds as though from what
you write, somebody might think,
630
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,010
'Wow, I feel she's in real trouble.'
But for me, I think, what a opportunity,
631
00:45:51,010 --> 00:45:53,730
I got to find out from you,
we can look together.
632
00:45:53,730 --> 00:45:57,820
And it's all in you. It's all you.
633
00:46:02,110 --> 00:46:04,174
Very good.
634
00:46:05,404 --> 00:46:08,664
Would you like some tea or something?
Did you get something or are you okay?
635
00:46:08,664 --> 00:46:12,730
Q1: I think I have some food waiting for me.
M: Go and eat the food now, it's cold.
636
00:46:12,730 --> 00:46:16,150
That's the only food
that's worth eating cold right now.
637
00:46:16,150 --> 00:46:18,414
Q1: It's...
638
00:46:18,414 --> 00:46:23,960
M: Thank you. Wonderful, darling.
Thank you, thank you, thank you,
639
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,360
Q1: Thank you so much.
M: Yes. See you in a bit.
640
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:32,400
Okay. Okay.
Q1: Thank you.
641
00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:40,020
M: If you are earnest, then you must do.
642
00:46:40,020 --> 00:46:42,520
You can walk the same road.
643
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,749
It's fresh every time.