WEBVTT
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How to Be Free From Ego
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5 November 2024
(with subtitles)
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[M.] Can I just read it out?
[Q.1] Yes.
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[M.] You write, 'Dear Guruji.
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I am too ashamed and afraid to speak to you.
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I don't know how to observe with detachment.
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I don't know how to be aware
that I am aware.
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I still see this 'I' identity as real.
Please help me.'
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It's a very, very honest thing.
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I wish people would write more like this and say.
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Because some people,
they hold back and they don't say.
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So I appreciate that you can say it,
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because I can kind of have a chance
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to share with you in a simple way.
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[Mooji] 'I don't know
how to observe with detachment.'
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Actually, we're observing with detachment
on many things,
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if they don't matter to you,
you understand?
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If things don't matter to you,
you still see them,
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but you're not distracted by them.
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Everybody, same thing.
So that's the first part.
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There is no such thing as
not observing with detachment.
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If, suppose everything you see,
every situation you had,
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you had to remember.
It's just alive in you.
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We'll be completely crazy.
Nobody can do.
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There is the mechanism
of our true natural state,
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it's working all the time to ...
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Like you can walk through here,
walk up there,
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you don't have to notice every step.
You don't notice everything.
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You meet a person, 'Hi. Good morning'.
You pass. You don't have to retain that.
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So a natural detachment
is functioning inside us.
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It's already there, detachment.
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If we were not able to detach
and yet we are perceiving,
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we would be in trouble.
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So, first of all, know that it's natural
that you meet people ...
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It's the things that matter to you,
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that you start to become more attached to.
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Like it has meaning
and so I have to remember this thing.
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So it's almost like
you take a kind of photograph
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in some kind of way inside,
it's like that matters,
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so then it become important.
So like this, when you say,
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'I don't know how to observe with detachment.'
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If I say, But you're doing it anyway
with many things.
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If I walk through from the front
to the back here,
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and I say to everybody as we're walking through,
Be detached from everything,
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then it becomes a problem,
because it turns it into a strangeness.
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Because naturally you're detached from things.
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You come to satsang
and I'm teaching you something much more powerful
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and to bring awareness to something
that's already natural for you.
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But I want it to be natural for you
even with things that matter.
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[Q.1] Yes, that's my problem.
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[Mooji] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's a problem for everybody.
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With things that don't matter,
no problem.
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You don't even have to say,
'I'm going to be detached from that.'
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You don't even have to say that.
You don't have to think.
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You're just senses, eyes, life.
You meet these things. Nothing.
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Just move through them. You retain your peace.
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But about the things that you say matter,
and what makes them matter?
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Let's slow down a bit and say,
what makes some things matter?
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It's an open question.
Why do they matter?
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Some
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relationship, some concepts,
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OK, this is family, this is my job,
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this is my relationship,
and these things matter.
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So if somebody else's relationship
is in trouble, it's no problem for you.
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But if you have a relationship problem,
it matters for you.
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So what is this thing that I'm talking about,
to observe with detachment?
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It's just a little step further
than what I say,
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you walk through,
you're naturally detached anyway.
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What I'm asking about,
learning to observe with detachment,
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is to bring that detachment ...
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Because whatever you see,
nothing sticks actually. A natural thing.
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But when things matter, your relationship,
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what you want, your work and so on,
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it creates a structure in your mind
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and you have to take care of that.
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So, I'm not going into all of these things.
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I'm saying that,
OK, what is attachment, is to...
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I want you to be aware of a space within you,
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which is not changed
by whatever is happening around you.
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It's alive. It's not dead, but it's not,
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it's not attached to the outcome
of things so deeply.
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I don't know if I'm putting it right.
I'm trying to find an example.
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[Q.1] I feel like there is no space.
It's just all mind and identity.
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[M.] If you are able to see mind,
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you must be looking from
some place that's not mind.
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This is true for everybody.
Just you're not aware that it's like that.
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Actually, what I'm saying is
actually so powerfully true for you
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when you're aware of it.
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And largely, the teachings
and the practice of what we do here
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is to make you more aware of something about you
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that you're not so aware of, for everybody.
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And because we're not aware
in the place that you should be aware
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of your inmost being.
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You can't see that.
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That's the other thing.
Everything else you can see.
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Every relationship, every object you can see.
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Every thought you can remember,
you can think.
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They're all called 'other',
everything you can see.
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But your Self you cannot see.
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You get that?
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You can say,
'Oh, this is my body. This is my ring.
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This is my house. This is my car.'
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My, my, my. This belongs to me.
My, my, my. Everything belongs to you.
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This is my family. This is my mother.
This is my house.
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This is my country. This is my passport.
This is my birth certificate.
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All 'my', meaning they belong to you.
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But can you say,
This is my my? This is my me?'
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You can't say, 'This is my me.'
Why?
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[Q.1] Because I cannot see this.
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[M.] Yes.
So because you can't see it,
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[M.] does it mean it's not there?
[Q.1] No.
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[M.] Right.
So there's something in the world,
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everything you can see,
but something you cannot see.
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Everything you can see,
but something you cannot see.
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And yet you cannot deny that it is real, isn't it?
You know you are.
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Now, I'm going to zoom in a little bit closer
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in this feeling that, 'Yes, I know I am.'
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This thing which you cannot see,
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that you say, 'You know it is here.'
I mean, it's the first fact,
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because if it's not here,
nothing else is here, isn't it?
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But it cannot be seen, yeah?
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OK, so we are back to this point.
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Everything you can see, everything;
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your thoughts, feelings, objects, people,
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your feelings, all of these things, you can see.
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You can even see
the quality of your sight, isn't it?
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So if you went to the optician
and he says,
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'Could you tell me something,
why you come here?'
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You said, 'Actually, I'm not able to see
or focus on things so well.'
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He said, 'In both eyes?'
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You say, 'No, no, in the right eye.'
'OK, tell me something.'
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You said, 'In the left eye, I can see
maybe 80% of what it should be,
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but in the right eye it's like about 50.'
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So something must be seeing sight, isn't it?
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The capacity is there.
You don't have to ask anybody.
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You can see, yeah,
something is aware of even the sight
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is not functioning well.
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So something must be behind even the sight.
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You're also aware of feelings,
emotion,
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sense of time. If somebody said,
'Yesterday something happened',
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you're aware of what that means.
Everything you're aware of.
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Everything you can see.
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But your Self, can you see?
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Why?
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Your body you can see.
Your body you can see.
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You can see your smile.
You can see your body.
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You can see everything.
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But your Self,
is seeing your body [seeing] your Self?
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Why not?
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[Q.1] Because something is aware of ...
[M.] Yeah.
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[Q.1] ... of the body.
[M.] Yes.
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That something which is aware of the body
cannot be seen.
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[M.] You're saying, no?
[Q.1] Yeah.
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[M.] Can it see sickness?
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It can know, 'I'm not feeling well'.
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'I'm not feeling ...'
It knows emotion.
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'I'm feeling a little a bit uncomfortable.'
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It sees everything.
But itself it cannot see.
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You're saying? Yeah.
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Why can it see everything,
but it cannot see itself?
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[Q.1] This I don't know.
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[M.] This which cannot ...
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You can see everything,
but you cannot see your Self.
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This which you cannot see,
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yet you cannot deny it,
this is your Self.
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Everything you can see,
your feelings, thoughts,
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and the function of intellect.
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Everything you can see.
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But that which is seeing them,
you say, 'I can see.' [VERIFY]
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It's sort of,
the word 'I' represents this thing,
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but it cannot be seen.
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Even your mother can come and say,
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'Darling, it's nice to see you.'
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What is the 'you' that she's seeing?
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[Q.1] The body.
[M.] The body.
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And she's seeing her affection,
her memory of you.
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All this she puts to become you.
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'Darling, it's so nice.
I haven't seen you for a long time.'
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So whatever someone says,
'It's good to see you.
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Where have you been? You put on weight'
or, 'You lost some.'
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All of this is to do with what?
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[Q.1] Appearance.
[M.] Your form and appearance, OK?
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[M.] So can she see You?
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Can you see You? Is that scary?
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[Q.1] No, it's not scary, but it's ...
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Something is missing or feels like ...
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[M.] OK, take a moment
and think about what is missing.
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You cannot see your True Self.
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I also cannot see my True Self.
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Why?
Because it's not an object.
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It's not even a thought.
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[Q.1] But you say to stay as this.
But... [laughs]
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[M.] Well. OK, OK, thank you.
I say to stay as this. Why?
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Because, first of all,
you imagine something else to be yourself.
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You call yourself a woman,
a daughter, you're from this country,
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my parents, I'm ... Whatever. Like this.
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So we're used to associating some quality
that represents you.
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But really, you're earlier than this,
in the purity.
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The one that is aware,
that says ...
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You're talking on the phone,
'I'm 27 years old. I've got two children.
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I'm married. I live in this place.'
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That one, is what?
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[Q.1] Person.
[M.] The person.
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Is the person and the Self,
the True Self, is the same thing?
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[Q.1] No.
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[M.] Does that bring a feeling of discomfort?
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No. No. Because there's nothing
you have to do to know that.
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You, something knows.
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Yet most people in the world,
have not even looked like this.
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They have not even thought about this,
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because your world starts with your person.
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If I employ you, I look at you, I interview,
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I say, Tell me about yourself.
You say, 'I studied this in university.
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I lived in South Africa for a while. I travelled.'
Information, information.
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Information cannot be You.
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It's about your person.
Which is, what is the person?
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[Q.1] This identity is person.
[M.] Yes, yes.
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[M.] Can you see the identity person?
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[Q.] Yeah.
[M.] What does it look like?
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[Q.1] Some tightness, some attachment.
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[M.] Attachment.
[Q.1] To ideas.
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[M.] Yes. Attachment to some ideas, OK.
00:15:46.097 --> 00:15:50.354
But the person is also an idea.
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[Q.1] This is the problem,
because it really feels real. So, yeah.
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[M.] Because it is the feeling 'I' in you,
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this 'I', it says,
'I see', 'I think', 'I ...' Da, da, da.
00:16:04.616 --> 00:16:11.632
Who is the 'I' that thinks.
We're not sure, the person or the real Self?
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'I want'.
'Yes, I know.'
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Who is the 'I' that knows?
00:16:20.090 --> 00:16:23.901
Is it personal or impersonal?
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[Q.1] Personal.
[M.] It's personal. OK, good.
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[M.] What sees it's impersonal?
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[Q.1] I don't know what.
I know it's something is seeing but ...
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[M.] Yes. It's the same answer.
You've given the answer already.
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It cannot be seen.
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This is the most important discovery,
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because until you really
realise this and know this,
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you take yourself to be an object
perceiving another object.
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The object being your person.
And it's OK, it's OK.
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God made it like that,
that we would also be projected
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into the world of thought
and feeling and association
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and say, 'This is me'.
For a while.
00:17:10.870 --> 00:17:15.748
But with this 'I', that works as the person,
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its world and itself is never stable,
00:17:21.136 --> 00:17:25.120
because it has an identity.
00:17:25.120 --> 00:17:30.144
Is the identity of the person
always stable? No, no.
00:17:30.144 --> 00:17:35.560
But it tries with everything
to share that it is stable.
00:17:35.560 --> 00:17:44.200
Because stable means, it's wise, it's real.
It's dependable. It's consistent.
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I'm just talking this through.
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:51.261
But I'm pointing to a deeper knowing
behind this person
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that knows the person, that sees the person.
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That which is aware of the person ...
You're with me?
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Is it attached to the person
or is the person attached to it?
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Take a moment.
00:18:11.070 --> 00:18:15.679
[Q.1] It's not attached.
[M.] It's not attached.
00:18:15.679 --> 00:18:19.390
[M.] Does it suffer from not being attached?
00:18:19.390 --> 00:18:23.654
[Q.1] No. [laughs]
00:18:23.654 --> 00:18:28.337
[M.] But I had to question you,
for you to recede to that place,
00:18:28.337 --> 00:18:30.860
to say, 'It's not attached.'
00:18:30.860 --> 00:18:33.860
Because where we are functioning normally
00:18:33.860 --> 00:18:37.597
is from the identity of the person,
which is attached.
00:18:37.597 --> 00:18:40.040
Which likes and dislikes.
00:18:40.040 --> 00:18:42.392
Who wants and doesn't want.
00:18:42.392 --> 00:18:45.365
Who thinks this and thinks that.
00:18:45.365 --> 00:18:50.237
And very much is in the function
of perceiving and living, no?
00:18:50.237 --> 00:18:53.851
So, what I'm sharing,
is that, that's OK.
00:18:53.851 --> 00:19:00.491
But if you only are aware of yourself
as a person, with its world,
00:19:00.491 --> 00:19:05.210
you will never be totally happy.
Because it's not stable.
00:19:05.210 --> 00:19:09.217
Today, 'Ah, I'm so happy.
I'm so ... Oh, so wonderful!'
00:19:09.217 --> 00:19:13.322
Tomorrow I see you ... [imitates struggling]
00:19:13.322 --> 00:19:18.431
I say, Mia, what's up?
'It's OK, I don't want to talk about it.'
00:19:18.431 --> 00:19:22.694
[M.] Who is it, who is speaking? Person, no?
[Q.1] Yes.
00:19:22.694 --> 00:19:27.734
[M.] What does the Self say?
What does the real Self say?
00:19:27.734 --> 00:19:30.430
Is it important at all?
00:19:30.430 --> 00:19:33.586
[M.] No. Is the Self important?
[Q.1] No.
00:19:33.586 --> 00:19:35.834
[M.] It's not important?
[Q.1] No.
00:19:35.834 --> 00:19:39.791
[M.] Does that mean it's no good?
It's not significant?
00:19:39.791 --> 00:19:43.960
The Self is not important?
It's not important?
00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:47.471
OK, so what's the purpose
of it existing then?
00:19:47.471 --> 00:19:50.804
If other things after it are important,
like the person;
00:19:50.804 --> 00:19:54.365
personal identity is important,
personal world is important,
00:19:54.365 --> 00:19:56.954
personal attachment is important.
00:19:56.954 --> 00:20:02.525
But the one before all of this comes,
which cannot be removed,
00:20:02.525 --> 00:20:06.572
can the Self be killed? No.
00:20:06.572 --> 00:20:14.040
And you say, I like that, actually,
'It's not important.' OK?
00:20:16.450 --> 00:20:20.710
[M.] What is important?
00:20:20.710 --> 00:20:25.525
[Q.1] I feel this exercise is important to do.
[M.] Yes.
00:20:25.525 --> 00:20:30.030
[M.] Why is it important, the exercise?
00:20:33.747 --> 00:20:36.751
[Q.1] To stabilise in this.
[M.] Yes.
00:20:36.751 --> 00:20:41.133
[M.] Is it the Self, the inmost Self,
that has to stabilise,
00:20:41.133 --> 00:20:44.870
[M.] or something else has to stabilise?
[Q.1] Something else.
00:20:44.870 --> 00:20:46.877
[M.] Right.
00:20:46.877 --> 00:20:51.170
Why does it need to stabilise,
the something else?
00:20:51.170 --> 00:20:57.502
[Q.1] Not to get pulled into identity.
00:20:57.502 --> 00:21:04.262
[M.] Yes. What is it that gets pulled
into identity, is it the Self?
00:21:04.262 --> 00:21:08.321
[Q.1] Attention.
[M.] Attention. Attention gets pulled.
00:21:08.321 --> 00:21:11.772
[M.] So attention is very important.
[Q.1] Yes.
00:21:11.772 --> 00:21:15.952
[M.] When the attention gets pulled into identity,
00:21:15.952 --> 00:21:18.522
what knows it most deeply;
00:21:18.522 --> 00:21:25.223
the attention, the mind, the person,
or the inmost Self?
00:21:25.223 --> 00:21:28.825
[Q.1] The Self. The inmost Self.
[M.] The Self.
00:21:28.825 --> 00:21:32.026
[M.] Does it suffer?
[Q.1] No.
00:21:32.026 --> 00:21:34.707
[M.] No. Still it's important,
00:21:34.707 --> 00:21:39.320
because every time the attention
goes out and forgets itself,
00:21:39.320 --> 00:21:43.268
[M.] it forgets where it comes from.
[Q.1] Yeah. [laughs]
00:21:43.268 --> 00:21:48.360
[M.] Every time the attention goes out,
gets involved in its projections,
00:21:48.360 --> 00:21:50.431
it causes some pain.
00:21:50.431 --> 00:21:55.105
It creates a kind of a world,
it creates emotion,
00:21:55.105 --> 00:21:58.360
it creates ups and downs, like this,
00:21:58.360 --> 00:22:01.319
and something is troubled by that.
00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:04.695
Maybe the person is troubled by that.
00:22:04.695 --> 00:22:08.055
And in our world,
everything is due to the person.
00:22:08.055 --> 00:22:11.287
It's the person that takes
another person to court.
00:22:11.287 --> 00:22:16.690
It's the person that wins or lose.
What about the Self?
00:22:18.346 --> 00:22:21.777
[Q.1] Nothing. [laughs]
[M.] Is it important to know this?
00:22:21.777 --> 00:22:24.273
[Q.1] Yeah.
[M.] Yeah.
00:22:24.273 --> 00:22:29.230
OK, so when we speak about ...
I'll come back to your letter now.
00:22:29.230 --> 00:22:35.940
You say, 'I don't know
how to observe with detachment.'
00:22:35.940 --> 00:22:40.860
Does the Self need to know
how to observe with detachment?
00:22:40.860 --> 00:22:45.179
[Questioner shakes head, no]
[M.] Why?
00:22:45.179 --> 00:22:50.230
[Q.1] It doesn't need anything.
[M.] It doesn't need anything.
00:22:50.230 --> 00:22:53.950
[M.] Yet everything is known to it.
00:22:53.950 --> 00:22:57.824
The play of the mind,
or da da da da, it knows,
00:22:57.824 --> 00:23:02.847
[M.] but it's not impacted upon.
[Q.1] No.
00:23:02.847 --> 00:23:09.497
[M.] There is a link between
the sense of the person and the inner Self.
00:23:09.497 --> 00:23:16.405
When the person,
who cannot exist without the inner Self,
00:23:16.405 --> 00:23:22.919
when it gets into states of confusion and pain,
00:23:22.919 --> 00:23:26.794
if it doesn't realise its root as the inner Self,
00:23:26.794 --> 00:23:29.601
it goes floating off and trouble can come.
00:23:29.601 --> 00:23:33.454
Mental problems can come.
Sickness can come. Anger can come.
00:23:33.454 --> 00:23:35.517
Fear comes. Everything comes.
00:23:35.517 --> 00:23:39.266
So it's very important that
this personal sense
00:23:39.266 --> 00:23:41.808
becomes aware of its root.
00:23:41.808 --> 00:23:47.965
[Q.1] Yes, and when I try
to do this exercise, I cannot come to this.
00:23:47.965 --> 00:23:53.034
[M.] Who is doing the exercise?
[Q.1] Yes, the mind and the person
00:23:53.034 --> 00:23:58.117
[Q.1] and the one who wants to stop suffering.
[M.] Right.
00:23:58.117 --> 00:24:01.099
[M.] What knows this?
00:24:03.933 --> 00:24:08.516
What is aware of this?
Is it the person-mind or the inner Self?
00:24:08.516 --> 00:24:12.310
[Q.1] The inner Self.
[M.] Yeah. Is the inner Self troubled?
00:24:12.310 --> 00:24:14.415
[Q.1] No.
00:24:14.415 --> 00:24:18.862
[M.] Still, the exercise is good,
because this is the real yoga.
00:24:18.862 --> 00:24:22.965
Yoga means the coming together into oneness,
00:24:22.965 --> 00:24:28.966
where the sense of the person
has to rediscover its root.
00:24:28.966 --> 00:24:32.107
The person cannot live by itself.
00:24:32.107 --> 00:24:37.688
Even when it's not aware of the Self,
it still comes from the Self.
00:24:37.688 --> 00:24:43.070
So largely the human expression
of the consciousness self
00:24:43.070 --> 00:24:46.518
is self-aware as a person.
00:24:46.518 --> 00:24:51.096
And so it can go for lifetimes,
in the human lifetime, living the person,
00:24:51.096 --> 00:24:55.162
because it's a big world, its dreams,
and 'I have to go do this.
00:24:55.162 --> 00:25:00.087
I like this, I don't like that,' and da da da.
Maybe life after life.
00:25:00.087 --> 00:25:03.766
'This life I love, I love ice cream.
I'd die for ice cream.'
00:25:03.766 --> 00:25:09.155
Next life, 'I can't stand ice cream.'
There's nothing consistent about it.
00:25:09.155 --> 00:25:13.568
Except that it cannot exist
without the real Self,
00:25:13.568 --> 00:25:16.113
and it has intelligence also.
00:25:16.113 --> 00:25:21.740
So, when it happens to this personal self,
00:25:21.740 --> 00:25:25.388
for some reason,
it's being attracted to find out,
00:25:25.388 --> 00:25:27.780
maybe it suffers enough in the world
00:25:27.780 --> 00:25:31.710
and it wants to find a solution for it.
00:25:31.710 --> 00:25:37.460
And the only solid solution
is to discover where it comes from,
00:25:37.460 --> 00:25:42.540
and that where it come from, and itself, are one.
00:25:42.540 --> 00:25:44.820
That's what the search of life is.
00:25:44.820 --> 00:25:49.160
Because all the beings who are not aware
of this oneness with the Self,
00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:54.800
all of them suffer. All have problem. You see.
00:25:54.800 --> 00:25:59.020
So this is the purpose of our satsang,
00:25:59.020 --> 00:26:03.630
is that the consciousness,
in the form of a person,
00:26:03.630 --> 00:26:05.930
becomes attracted to its root,
00:26:05.930 --> 00:26:09.700
and not just attracted
to the world in front of it.
00:26:09.700 --> 00:26:14.689
And so this exercise like detachment,
meaning that whatever is going on,
00:26:14.689 --> 00:26:19.560
to go in the world, to do,
the this, and self-image,
00:26:19.560 --> 00:26:22.012
self-image, self-assessments,
00:26:22.012 --> 00:26:29.130
all of this is a play of the mind,
is mind states.
00:26:29.130 --> 00:26:35.790
And it has to realise that
all states are changeful, okay,
00:26:35.790 --> 00:26:41.040
and that it can witness them,
it can observe them, without being them.
00:26:41.040 --> 00:26:46.209
In fact, you can only observe something
because you're not it, actually.
00:26:46.209 --> 00:26:54.190
And that there's a capacity
even in the person to observe,
00:26:54.190 --> 00:26:59.240
and in observing them
it knows that it's not them.
00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:03.830
And that characteristic is like its parent.
00:27:03.830 --> 00:27:08.194
You see, the person, the characteristic
of looking and realising that,
00:27:08.194 --> 00:27:14.840
'Whatever I see is only an impression,
a thought, and a feeling,
00:27:14.840 --> 00:27:19.150
but it's not what I am,'
that's called awakening
00:27:19.150 --> 00:27:22.680
It's waking up to the fact that nothing out here
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:25.060
comes through the mind or the senses,
00:27:25.060 --> 00:27:30.140
nothing of there can be fundamental to me.
All of it is changing.
00:27:30.140 --> 00:27:36.390
And even myself as the person
who is looking and knowing this,
00:27:36.390 --> 00:27:40.533
it's like on the verge of this way - world.
00:27:40.533 --> 00:27:43.520
This way - into the abyss of the Self.
00:27:43.520 --> 00:27:46.310
Because it has a capacity that when it looks
00:27:46.310 --> 00:27:51.980
and is not identified with what it sees
or what its experience is,
00:27:51.980 --> 00:27:55.810
each thing comes, like life is saying,
'This thing and this thing.'
00:27:55.810 --> 00:28:00.380
And it's saying, 'No, it's not this.
It's not this. What I am is not this.'
00:28:00.380 --> 00:28:07.510
As you keep doing that, it naturally
comes back to its original Self-awareness.
00:28:07.510 --> 00:28:10.399
And I say, Self-awareness,
non-dual Self-awareness,
00:28:10.399 --> 00:28:14.150
like not one thing, not a divided union,
00:28:14.150 --> 00:28:17.900
but a harmony comes back into realising,
00:28:17.900 --> 00:28:22.030
'But here nothing is happening to me.'
00:28:22.030 --> 00:28:25.008
When I go into the mind, into identity,
00:28:25.008 --> 00:28:27.560
then happenings becomes relevant.
00:28:27.560 --> 00:28:33.100
But if I even can observe
and be aware of even my person,
00:28:33.100 --> 00:28:37.890
which is like my person is like the...
00:28:37.890 --> 00:28:43.300
What you call this?
The binoculars that sees the world,
00:28:43.300 --> 00:28:45.490
but the person who sees the world
00:28:45.490 --> 00:28:48.070
is also seen from the place of the Self.
00:28:48.070 --> 00:28:54.250
When it knows this, it's coming back into
conscious harmony.
00:28:54.250 --> 00:28:56.860
That's all the thing of detachment is.
00:28:56.860 --> 00:29:00.990
You don't have to kill anything.
It's just understanding.
00:29:00.990 --> 00:29:05.170
The realisation of the Self
is a journey of understanding,
00:29:05.170 --> 00:29:07.790
and understanding your misunderstanding.
00:29:07.790 --> 00:29:10.619
So it's simple. Unless we get it,
it might seem,
00:29:10.619 --> 00:29:14.420
'It's the most complex thing.' Why?
Because you're not used to doing it.
00:29:14.420 --> 00:29:18.740
You're looking—each one is
used to looking forward, looking outward.
00:29:18.740 --> 00:29:22.430
Even sometimes when you think
we're looking inward into our mind,
00:29:22.430 --> 00:29:25.391
it's still outward from the inner Self.
00:29:25.391 --> 00:29:28.190
Q1: Yeah, and this happens a lot,
00:29:28.190 --> 00:29:33.150
because I go in, in and then it's the body.
00:29:33.150 --> 00:29:36.320
I cannot go beyond.
M: You're in the body-mind.
00:29:36.320 --> 00:29:40.040
But something behind that knows this thing.
00:29:40.040 --> 00:29:44.610
The mind cannot make an ultimate realisation
00:29:44.610 --> 00:29:48.410
without becoming the realisation.
00:29:48.410 --> 00:29:53.860
The mind or the person
cannot come to ultimate realisation
00:29:53.860 --> 00:29:57.340
and remain independent of that realisation.
00:29:57.340 --> 00:30:04.710
The more it becomes aware,
the more it finds it is. Not that it has.
00:30:04.710 --> 00:30:08.560
And this is very significant thing.
00:30:08.560 --> 00:30:13.840
Nobody can have the realisation
and be somebody who has realisation.
00:30:13.840 --> 00:30:17.060
What it means is that, the idea of yourself
00:30:17.060 --> 00:30:21.280
as being only the person,
subsides again, and is seen,
00:30:21.280 --> 00:30:26.450
it is seen as also the most subtle object.
00:30:26.450 --> 00:30:31.280
This subtle object of a person
is behaving like a subject,
00:30:31.280 --> 00:30:34.260
and that everything in its world is the object.
00:30:34.260 --> 00:30:38.370
But to the Self, it also is the first object.
00:30:38.370 --> 00:30:44.830
The first object shines as this feeling 'I',
'I am here'.
00:30:44.830 --> 00:30:48.800
You know, 'Mia!' 'Yeah, I'm here.'
What it means, 'I am here'?
00:30:48.800 --> 00:30:53.190
The reference normally is, 'Look, I'm over here.
00:30:53.190 --> 00:30:56.520
And this is okay, this is normal,
this is the only place
00:30:56.520 --> 00:30:59.090
where language can exist, in that way.
00:30:59.090 --> 00:31:01.920
The language is for the sense of the person
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:07.020
having relationship with what it likes or dislike.
00:31:07.020 --> 00:31:10.000
Actually, there's nothing wrong
with this, ultimately.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:12.720
Because even as you wake up
again to realise that,
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:16.340
whatever happens, it's seen from this place.
00:31:16.340 --> 00:31:18.740
But this place cannot be seen,
00:31:18.740 --> 00:31:23.860
and that I can only really be this place.
00:31:23.860 --> 00:31:27.875
Then when you really know this,
the dynamic expression of this,
00:31:27.875 --> 00:31:31.359
which is like of being a person,
that can still play,
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:34.820
but it won't have that delusion in it.
00:31:34.820 --> 00:31:38.750
Q1: Yes. This delusion has to go.
00:31:38.750 --> 00:31:41.831
M: No, it needs to be understood.
Q1: Yeah.
00:31:41.831 --> 00:31:44.690
M: It doesn't go. Why it needs to go?
00:31:44.690 --> 00:31:47.813
Because you are combining it with your identity
00:31:47.813 --> 00:31:50.320
and it hurts like, 'No, no, no, no.'
00:31:50.320 --> 00:31:53.440
But all this now,
you're going to see all of this
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.180
are constructs of the mind.
00:31:56.180 --> 00:32:00.236
And the self is just a psychological portrait
00:32:00.236 --> 00:32:03.290
of the mind, of the person.
00:32:03.290 --> 00:32:07.750
But the inner being, which has no shape,
you can't identify and say,
00:32:07.750 --> 00:32:11.000
'Ah I found the inner being.'
You cannot do that.
00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:16.090
Because anything you can do that with,
is an object in the perception.
00:32:17.910 --> 00:32:20.090
M: You got it, isn't it?
Q1: Yes.
00:32:20.090 --> 00:32:24.690
M: Okay. So okay, so prove your problem.
Go on.
00:32:41.850 --> 00:32:45.810
You see, you will need to sit with this,
more and more.
00:32:45.810 --> 00:32:49.530
Because it's like shape shifting.
One minute you think you're looking
00:32:49.530 --> 00:32:55.130
and the next minute you're involved, invested.
00:32:55.130 --> 00:33:02.340
Don't get angry about this,
because it's been happening for lifetimes.
00:33:02.340 --> 00:33:04.610
So, let it happen, it's okay.
00:33:04.610 --> 00:33:08.230
Just keep seeing, but wait a minute,
this can be seen also.
00:33:08.230 --> 00:33:13.920
The most intimate
is also an object of perception.
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:18.360
The most intimate,
because 'intimate' means at least two.
00:33:18.360 --> 00:33:22.280
If there's not two, there is no intimate.
00:33:28.187 --> 00:33:34.050
Can you be confused, 'you',
in the light of what I'm sharing?
00:33:34.050 --> 00:33:36.830
Q1: No, no.
M: Thank you.
00:33:36.830 --> 00:33:39.980
But you can be aware of confusion.
Q1: Yeah.
00:33:39.980 --> 00:33:44.450
M: If you can be aware of confusion
without identifying with confusion,
00:33:44.450 --> 00:33:47.430
are you cheating?
00:33:47.430 --> 00:33:50.280
Q1: No, no. [laughs]
00:33:52.389 --> 00:33:54.899
M: Very good.
00:33:56.850 --> 00:34:01.550
So let's start again from the beginning.
What's your problem?
00:34:09.630 --> 00:34:16.350
Q1: That when I do this exercise,
I believe I need to find something.
00:34:16.350 --> 00:34:20.803
M: 'I' being what? Qualify your status here.
00:34:20.803 --> 00:34:22.800
Q1: The person.
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:26.020
M: When the person do the exercise?
Q1: Yeah.
00:34:26.020 --> 00:34:31.310
M: There's another word for person
in this exercise,
00:34:31.310 --> 00:34:34.100
I would call it,
00:34:34.100 --> 00:34:42.830
when the personalised intelligence of the truth,
00:34:42.830 --> 00:34:48.030
when the personal intelligence of God
00:34:48.030 --> 00:34:54.750
gets confused with its projections,
then it's like it's lost to itself.
00:34:54.750 --> 00:34:57.040
It's like it's lost to itself.
00:34:57.040 --> 00:35:01.910
When that loss to itself becomes painful,
00:35:01.910 --> 00:35:07.500
you're on the brink of awakening.
You understand?
00:35:07.500 --> 00:35:12.000
Because if you're not troubled by it,
then you will not go beyond it.
00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:17.140
Q1: When it's just pain, pain, pain. [laughs]
00:35:17.140 --> 00:35:22.360
M: 'No pain, no gain,' they say.
You have to...
00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:27.950
It's like, in a way,
you're giving birth to yourself.
00:35:27.950 --> 00:35:35.470
Q1: Because I sit and I do,
but I feel like there is no result.
00:35:35.470 --> 00:35:39.480
M: You, again, who is sitting and looking, is what?
00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:42.670
Q1: The person.
[laughter]
00:35:44.970 --> 00:35:47.808
M: Does it matter that
we are catching it like that?
00:35:47.808 --> 00:35:49.910
That it's the person doing it,
00:35:49.910 --> 00:35:54.250
and that what the person cries about today,
laughs about another moment,
00:35:54.250 --> 00:35:56.810
that it's not consistent.
00:35:56.810 --> 00:36:01.030
And even if it says, 'Eureka, I found the Self!'
Can it be true?
00:36:01.030 --> 00:36:03.460
Q1: No.
M: Why not?
00:36:03.460 --> 00:36:06.010
Q1: Because it cannot be seen.
00:36:06.010 --> 00:36:10.238
Q1: And if it lends to some illusion of...
00:36:10.238 --> 00:36:14.550
M: So then what's the practice for?
00:36:18.210 --> 00:36:22.650
Q1: To become aware of all this—
00:36:27.670 --> 00:36:34.100
wrong ideas.
M: Yeah, that's one way we can put it.
00:36:34.100 --> 00:36:36.880
Tell me another way we can put it.
That's good.
00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:40.970
I take that, to become aware
of all these kind of little—
00:36:40.970 --> 00:36:46.720
all these little kind of distortions
of understanding,
00:36:46.720 --> 00:36:50.950
to become aware of them.
More subtle than that.
00:36:50.950 --> 00:36:56.710
By becoming aware of them,
you become aware of what?
00:36:56.710 --> 00:37:01.650
Q1: Of that which is seeing.
M: Is seeing, yeah.
00:37:01.650 --> 00:37:07.070
How can you become...
be aware of it phenomenally?
00:37:07.070 --> 00:37:09.860
Can you become aware of it phenomenally?
00:37:09.860 --> 00:37:11.940
Q1: No.
M: No.
00:37:11.940 --> 00:37:15.390
So therefore, you become aware of what?
00:37:15.390 --> 00:37:20.720
Q1: It feels like it's just the moments
of this awareness.
00:37:20.720 --> 00:37:25.152
M: Yeah. It will flicker before,
because you're not used to it.
00:37:25.152 --> 00:37:27.894
The reflex is used to going out and connecting
00:37:27.894 --> 00:37:31.280
with objects of projections
and perception, used to that.
00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:35.160
But now I'm asking you to...
All this is happening for everyone.
00:37:35.160 --> 00:37:38.500
And even the one who says,
'But this is happening to me,
00:37:38.500 --> 00:37:42.160
and I find it frustrating!'
With where I'm asking you to do,
00:37:42.160 --> 00:37:47.980
is to see that that also
is an aspect of the mind.
00:37:47.980 --> 00:37:51.230
But all of these aspects, they came originally
00:37:51.230 --> 00:37:55.850
from out of this projection forward.
Can you see?
00:37:55.850 --> 00:37:57.870
Q1: Yeah.
M: Yeah.
00:37:57.870 --> 00:38:06.396
And that the real opportunity
is in seeing this.
00:38:06.396 --> 00:38:10.130
But still something is feeling,
'No, but mind is still troubling.
00:38:10.130 --> 00:38:15.530
Mind is still troubling.'
No, don't worry. It's troubling who?
00:38:15.530 --> 00:38:20.130
Who is the mind troubling?
00:38:20.130 --> 00:38:23.836
We can say together after three. One, two, three.
Q1: No one.
00:38:23.836 --> 00:38:27.350
M: The person. Oh, no one!
Oh, you beat me to it!
00:38:27.350 --> 00:38:31.220
It's troubling no one!
It's troubling no one.
00:38:31.220 --> 00:38:35.500
That's a better answer than the person.
[Questioner laughs]
00:38:35.500 --> 00:38:37.560
M: You see this?
Q1: Yeah.
00:38:37.560 --> 00:38:39.690
M: Okay.
00:38:40.740 --> 00:38:43.760
So now what?
00:38:47.520 --> 00:38:51.710
It's enough or not enough?
00:38:54.410 --> 00:38:57.331
Q1: I don't know.
00:38:57.331 --> 00:39:02.530
M: Who is saying? Who is...
Where this answer is coming from?
00:39:06.930 --> 00:39:10.530
I can accept it, or I can question it,
'I don't know.'
00:39:10.530 --> 00:39:15.080
'I'-who don't know?
00:39:15.080 --> 00:39:17.700
Q1: It's the person.
M: It's the person.
00:39:17.700 --> 00:39:19.770
Q1: Yeah.
M: Yeah, sure?
00:39:19.770 --> 00:39:23.307
Q1: No. [laughs]
M: It can be from the person.
00:39:23.307 --> 00:39:26.010
If you say it's from the person, okay,
00:39:26.010 --> 00:39:28.800
then I would say, You give me one more move.
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:34.380
But what's aware that it's coming from the person?
00:39:34.380 --> 00:39:39.290
Q1: Yes. Something feels like it's not satisfied,
00:39:39.290 --> 00:39:45.470
but I should not go after.
00:39:45.470 --> 00:39:49.220
M: Yes. This is a powerful seeing,
00:39:49.220 --> 00:39:51.760
'Something feels not satisfied.'
00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:57.360
That which feels not satisfied,
it's personal or impersonal?
00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:00.680
Q1: It's personal.
M: Personal.
00:40:00.680 --> 00:40:04.150
You see, if that gets you each time,
like the person goes,
00:40:04.150 --> 00:40:09.780
'Yeah, I know, Guruji,
but, you know, can't get... ' Who's speaking?
00:40:09.780 --> 00:40:12.580
Q1: Person.
M: Yeah.
00:40:12.580 --> 00:40:15.260
So we will finish on that note?
00:40:15.260 --> 00:40:21.740
Q1: Uh, person? No. [laughs]
M: Thank you. Okay. Where?
00:40:29.230 --> 00:40:33.660
What does finish mean?
00:40:33.660 --> 00:40:37.907
Q1: Just this conversation.
Finish the conversation.
00:40:37.907 --> 00:40:43.740
M: The conversation can finish
in its oral manifestation.
00:40:43.740 --> 00:40:46.610
It may go to be some kind of little stuff
00:40:46.610 --> 00:40:49.820
in the mind that feels like,
'Yeah, I don't know.
00:40:49.820 --> 00:40:53.060
I had a talk with Mooji,
and it was really clear,
00:40:53.060 --> 00:40:56.050
but now it's not clear.' Is report from?
00:40:56.050 --> 00:40:58.360
Q1: The mind.
M: From the mind.
00:40:58.360 --> 00:41:02.080
And it is that ultimate?
Q1: No.
00:41:02.080 --> 00:41:06.300
M: No. What is ultimate?
00:41:06.300 --> 00:41:09.570
Q1: That which is aware of this.
00:41:09.570 --> 00:41:12.280
M: Yes, yes.
00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:15.810
M: Which is where?
00:41:15.810 --> 00:41:18.810
Q1: It's nowhere.
00:41:18.810 --> 00:41:22.240
M: Why are you smiling?
[Questioner laughs]
00:41:28.630 --> 00:41:34.200
So, you have a problem?
00:41:34.200 --> 00:41:37.560
Q1: No.
[Laughter]
00:41:37.560 --> 00:41:42.800
Can you, from this place of answering,
ever have a problem?
00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:45.649
Q1: No. No.
00:41:51.040 --> 00:41:56.069
M: Are you sad or happy about this?
00:41:59.680 --> 00:42:02.689
Q1: Nothing.
M: Very good.
00:42:04.850 --> 00:42:08.859
More subtle than even happy.
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:17.039
Yeah. We're good?
00:42:19.620 --> 00:42:22.720
If you go walking
and the mind comes again and says,
00:42:22.720 --> 00:42:26.710
'I can't remember anything about that.
00:42:26.710 --> 00:42:30.627
I'm going to try and see if I can
get that mood back.' Was it a mood?
00:42:30.627 --> 00:42:34.170
Q1: No.
M: It's not a mood. [laughter]
00:42:34.170 --> 00:42:38.670
Can you lose this?
00:42:38.670 --> 00:42:40.890
Q1: No.
M: No.
00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:46.419
Can you possess this?
Q1: No.
00:42:49.550 --> 00:42:52.549
M: Very good.
00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:58.980
I'm happy. Very good.
00:42:58.980 --> 00:43:02.670
So, the rest I don't have to read, no?
00:43:02.670 --> 00:43:06.868
[Reads letter] 'I don't know how to
be aware that I am aware.
00:43:06.868 --> 00:43:08.960
[Questioner laughs]
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:14.830
I still see this 'I'-identity as real.
Please help, Mia.'
00:43:14.830 --> 00:43:16.970
Do we need?
Q1: No.
00:43:16.970 --> 00:43:21.830
M: Very good. Can I keep it?
Q1: Yes. I mean, throw it.
00:43:21.830 --> 00:43:25.309
M: Throw it, keep it.
I'm happy you're like this. It's good.
00:43:25.309 --> 00:43:31.550
Q1: You don't need to keep it.
M: Because this, [touches letter]
00:43:31.550 --> 00:43:37.319
I call it an auspicious reaching out
to clarify something.
00:43:37.319 --> 00:43:42.201
And to that extent, it's very...
00:43:42.201 --> 00:43:44.760
I mean, it's not a game.
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:50.719
We can say it is like a game,
but it's not a cynical game.
00:43:50.719 --> 00:43:57.249
It's, you may say, a game or a play or
00:43:57.249 --> 00:44:02.250
something that needs to happen
00:44:02.250 --> 00:44:06.460
to the human expression of consciousness,
00:44:06.460 --> 00:44:11.230
when it comes to a stage where
its world is not working.
00:44:11.230 --> 00:44:14.170
And I don't see that as a disaster.
00:44:14.170 --> 00:44:18.070
I see it as opportunity
to look behind the scene.
00:44:18.070 --> 00:44:23.080
Q1: Yes, yes. I want to take
every opportunity to look.
00:44:23.080 --> 00:44:27.010
M: Okay. Now? Right now?
00:44:27.010 --> 00:44:30.860
Q1: Always, yeah, now.
M: Yeah. Okay.
00:44:30.860 --> 00:44:33.790
Do you need to look further now?
00:44:33.790 --> 00:44:36.755
Q1: I can do, yeah.
M: Yeah.
00:44:36.755 --> 00:44:40.390
M: Yeah. Good.
Q1: Yeah, yeah. [laughs]
00:44:40.390 --> 00:44:44.529
M: Thank you. Very good.
00:44:47.590 --> 00:44:50.326
And you don't need to talk
to anybody about it.
00:44:50.326 --> 00:44:53.636
Just you sit with that, and watch.
00:44:53.636 --> 00:45:00.720
And however tricky the mind can be,
you remember, it is secondary.
00:45:00.720 --> 00:45:04.030
That which is primary, is seeing that.
00:45:04.030 --> 00:45:08.020
And the mind can come in the form
of thought or moods or sensation,
00:45:08.020 --> 00:45:10.780
it can appear like confusion,
00:45:10.780 --> 00:45:16.320
it appears as identity,
but it's still only appearing.
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:21.610
Can the Self appear? No.
00:45:21.610 --> 00:45:26.589
So it causes the appearing
of the mind play and the diversity.
00:45:26.589 --> 00:45:32.090
But it itself is indescribable actually.
00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:38.230
So at this point I would say,
sit and contemplate that.
00:45:38.230 --> 00:45:41.360
Yeah. That's all you have to do.
00:45:41.360 --> 00:45:47.320
You see, it sounds as though from what
you write, somebody might think,
00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:51.010
'Wow, I feel she's in real trouble.'
But for me, I think, what a opportunity,
00:45:51.010 --> 00:45:53.730
I got to find out from you,
we can look together.
00:45:53.730 --> 00:45:57.820
And it's all in you. It's all you.
00:46:02.110 --> 00:46:04.174
Very good.
00:46:05.404 --> 00:46:08.664
Would you like some tea or something?
Did you get something or are you okay?
00:46:08.664 --> 00:46:12.730
Q1: I think I have some food waiting for me.
M: Go and eat the food now, it's cold.
00:46:12.730 --> 00:46:16.150
That's the only food
that's worth eating cold right now.
00:46:16.150 --> 00:46:18.414
Q1: It's...
00:46:18.414 --> 00:46:23.960
M: Thank you. Wonderful, darling.
Thank you, thank you, thank you,
00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:28.360
Q1: Thank you so much.
M: Yes. See you in a bit.
00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:32.400
Okay. Okay.
Q1: Thank you.
00:46:37.510 --> 00:46:40.020
M: If you are earnest, then you must do.
00:46:40.020 --> 00:46:42.520
You can walk the same road.
00:46:42.520 --> 00:46:45.749
It's fresh every time.