0:00:13.640,0:00:16.441
Okay. It's great to be here[br]with you both today.
0:00:16.442,0:00:18.801
I'm so excited for this conversation.
0:00:18.802,0:00:21.160
Welcome everyone to our discussion
0:00:21.161,0:00:22.342
with Michael Etherington,
0:00:22.560,0:00:24.200
Reconciliation in Motion:
0:00:24.201,0:00:26.075
Stepping into a Better Future.
0:00:26.880,0:00:28.041
My name is Sarah [Frase].
0:00:28.042,0:00:29.720
I'm a member of Ballet Forward.
0:00:30.040,0:00:32.081
Currently, I'm a student[br]with Arts Umbrella
0:00:32.082,0:00:34.560
in their Postsecondary program[br]here in Vancouver,
0:00:34.920,0:00:36.840
but I'm [inaudible]
0:00:36.841,0:00:38.720
and I'm a member[br]of Norway House Cree Nation.
0:00:38.920,0:00:41.720
I'm joined today[br]by a fellow Ballet Forward member.
0:00:42.160,0:00:44.160
Oya, if you'd like to introduce yourself.
0:00:44.560,0:00:47.800
Hello. My name is Oyafunke,[br]but I go by Oya.
0:00:48.120,0:00:50.120
I am from the US,
0:00:50.121,0:00:52.361
but I'm a Ballet Forward member,
0:00:52.362,0:00:55.502
and I currently study[br]at the Royal Winnipeg Ballet School.
0:00:56.760,0:00:59.321
Yeah, and we're both members[br]of Ballet Forward,
0:00:59.322,0:01:01.841
a group of young dancers[br]from across Canada
0:01:01.842,0:01:03.920
dedicated to addressing systemic issues
0:01:03.921,0:01:05.320
within the dance industry.
0:01:06.160,0:01:09.121
Talks like these are just one way[br]that we're getting started,
0:01:09.122,0:01:11.081
but we really have so much more planned,
0:01:11.082,0:01:13.640
and we're really excited to be here[br]today with you, Michael.
0:01:13.641,0:01:15.841
If you'd like to give[br]a little introduction.
0:01:15.842,0:01:17.760
We've had a few discussions before,
0:01:17.761,0:01:19.360
but for everyone listening,
0:01:19.361,0:01:20.640
tell us a bit about yourself.
0:01:21.520,0:01:23.680
Thank you. (Ojibwe language) Miigwech.[br]Very briefly...
0:01:23.960,0:01:25.321
(speaking in foreign language)
0:01:25.322,0:01:27.680
(speaking in foreign language)
0:01:28.080,0:01:29.881
I'm originally from the north
0:01:29.882,0:01:32.001
in Treaty No. 9 territory.
0:01:32.002,0:01:34.320
I'm a member of Fort Albany First Nation,
0:01:34.760,0:01:37.441
and my spirit name is (Ojibwe phrase),
0:01:37.442,0:01:39.435
which means "walks with a feather,"
0:01:39.435,0:01:42.480
and I think in nature[br]of the conversation as well,
0:01:42.481,0:01:43.801
which I tried to highlight
0:01:43.802,0:01:46.280
and with what I carry for myself is
0:01:46.880,0:01:48.961
to walk slowly, not walk too fast.
0:01:48.962,0:01:50.800
I think that's a reminder for all of us
0:01:50.801,0:01:53.040
on this learning journey[br]of reconciliation.
0:01:53.240,0:01:55.041
I look forward[br]to spending a bit of my time
0:01:55.042,0:01:56.401
and speaking with you both today.
0:01:56.402,0:01:57.960
Thank you. (Ojibwe language) Miigwech.
0:01:58.920,0:02:00.670
Amazing. It's great to have you.
0:02:04.280,0:02:07.040
I just wanted[br]to start off the conversation,
0:02:07.720,0:02:11.200
asking what is reconciliation to you,
0:02:11.201,0:02:13.361
and what are the different aspects
0:02:13.362,0:02:15.200
or levels of reconciliation
0:02:15.520,0:02:18.001
because we know[br]that it has so many aspects,
0:02:18.002,0:02:20.200
not just the recognition of the history
0:02:20.561,0:02:22.120
and its effects,
0:02:22.880,0:02:24.360
but also the active steps
0:02:24.361,0:02:26.201
to break down the systemic barriers
0:02:26.202,0:02:29.440
put in place by the legacy[br]that that history left.
0:02:31.800,0:02:33.560
To frame the conversation
0:02:34.320,0:02:37.760
is to highlight with the Truth[br]and Reconciliation Commission.
0:02:38.240,0:02:40.241
They had established a final report
0:02:40.242,0:02:42.760
that was published in 2015,
0:02:43.120,0:02:44.390
and prior to that,
0:02:44.680,0:02:47.660
narratives of reconciliation happened[br]around the 1990s
0:02:47.920,0:02:49.281
following the Oka Crisis,
0:02:49.282,0:02:51.281
which was a violent conflict
0:02:51.282,0:02:53.821
that happened with regards[br]to traditional burial grounds.
0:02:54.480,0:02:56.440
There was a Royal Commission established
0:02:56.880,0:02:58.000
on Aboriginal peoples
0:02:58.001,0:03:00.481
with a final report issued in 1996,
0:03:00.482,0:03:03.600
and then, subsequently,[br]the Ministry of Indian Affairs,
0:03:04.480,0:03:06.481
and the Minister of Indian Affairs,[br]Jane Stewart,
0:03:06.482,0:03:08.680
issued a statement of reconciliation,
0:03:08.960,0:03:10.081
but prior to that,
0:03:10.082,0:03:11.800
there wasn't really much narratives
0:03:11.801,0:03:15.560
because a lot of the history[br]was suppressed
0:03:16.320,0:03:19.840
and also too many community members[br]didn't have any forms
0:03:19.841,0:03:21.521
to tell their stories or experience
0:03:21.522,0:03:23.680
about the legacy of residential schools.
0:03:24.480,0:03:27.120
Following that,[br]there was a class action lawsuit,
0:03:27.121,0:03:29.646
the Indian Residential Schools[br]Settlement Agreement,
0:03:30.601,0:03:32.921
which is where the TRC was established
0:03:32.922,0:03:33.960
from under schedule.
0:03:35.360,0:03:37.840
What's important to consider,[br]I think, for everyone, though,
0:03:37.841,0:03:41.360
is that as this work and call to action[br]was moved forward,
0:03:41.601,0:03:43.670
there were 94 calls to action.
0:03:45.320,0:03:47.361
I think what's important to recognize
0:03:47.362,0:03:48.681
is a working definition
0:03:48.682,0:03:49.841
about how we move forward,
0:03:49.842,0:03:51.280
whether it's as a community-based
0:03:51.281,0:03:53.480
or as an organization.
0:03:53.720,0:03:56.721
So the TRC did have a definition
0:03:56.722,0:03:59.960
that focused predominantly[br]on relationships.
0:04:01.000,0:04:02.641
Within those relationships,
0:04:02.642,0:04:04.241
it has four criterias,
0:04:04.242,0:04:06.840
which are awareness of the past,
0:04:07.281,0:04:08.777
acknowledgement of the harm,
0:04:09.040,0:04:10.560
atonement for the causes
0:04:10.761,0:04:12.280
and action to change.
0:04:13.120,0:04:15.640
I utilize those as pathways
0:04:15.641,0:04:17.220
about how we move forward.
0:04:18.040,0:04:19.840
I think an important question
0:04:19.841,0:04:23.800
to frame this conversation[br]before I continue is
0:04:24.201,0:04:26.440
I always say "personal and professional."
0:04:27.160,0:04:31.641
Personally, I think,[br]is where the conversation should start
0:04:31.642,0:04:35.240
because the TRC had three central themes
0:04:35.521,0:04:37.360
when the final report was issued.
0:04:37.840,0:04:41.560
It had to focus more specific[br]about self-determination,
0:04:41.921,0:04:43.560
cultural revitalization
0:04:43.840,0:04:45.680
and racism and discrimination.
0:04:46.321,0:04:47.880
If you think about the legacy--
0:04:48.440,0:04:50.720
many institutions that are perpetuating,
0:04:50.921,0:04:53.160
such as the justice system,[br]child welfare--
0:04:53.415,0:04:56.330
they may have to deal[br]with things of the TRC theme
0:04:56.330,0:04:57.960
of racism, discrimination,
0:04:58.640,0:05:01.720
but both the legacy[br]for community members that are impacted,
0:05:01.960,0:05:03.280
cultural revitalization,
0:05:03.801,0:05:05.040
loss of language,
0:05:05.281,0:05:06.680
impacts of identity.
0:05:07.680,0:05:10.160
Murray Sinclair had four central questions
0:05:10.161,0:05:11.600
to ask about yourself
0:05:11.880,0:05:13.880
with regards to reclaim your culture,
0:05:14.361,0:05:16.720
is knowing who you are,
0:05:17.000,0:05:18.000
where you come from,
0:05:18.001,0:05:20.081
where you're going,[br]and what's your responsibilities
0:05:20.082,0:05:23.120
because the legacy of residential schools
0:05:23.121,0:05:25.160
and the impacts of Indigenous peoples,
0:05:25.161,0:05:26.600
Indigenous individuals,
0:05:26.920,0:05:28.120
families and communities
0:05:28.441,0:05:30.281
was to sever your connection and belonging
0:05:30.282,0:05:32.440
and to not be able[br]to answer those questions.
0:05:32.441,0:05:35.320
So many Indigenous families[br]are working through,
0:05:35.321,0:05:38.321
trying to reclaim[br]those aspects of who they are
0:05:38.322,0:05:39.501
and where they come from
0:05:39.880,0:05:43.120
and in the latter aspect[br]about self-determination.
0:05:43.720,0:05:46.041
In Canada, we have conflicting narratives
0:05:46.042,0:05:49.000
with regards to assimilation policies[br]of the legacy,
0:05:49.361,0:05:52.240
but also we have[br]inherent rights through treaties.
0:05:52.560,0:05:56.080
So, as we move forward as a country,[br]for many Canadians,
0:05:56.400,0:05:58.400
is that to recognize the inherent rights
0:05:58.401,0:06:01.041
and that we do work in shared prosperity
0:06:01.042,0:06:02.742
and walking a path together.
0:06:03.120,0:06:04.120
I think,
0:06:04.400,0:06:05.800
also before we segue,
0:06:05.801,0:06:11.080
is that have either of you considered[br]what reconciliation means to you at all?
0:06:11.840,0:06:14.440
If I ask you what does reconciliation[br]mean to you,
0:06:14.961,0:06:19.000
have you considered or have[br]an understanding for yourselves as of yet
0:06:19.361,0:06:20.400
as young leaders?
0:06:22.640,0:06:25.440
Yeah, I think, for me, reconciliation,
0:06:25.680,0:06:27.160
it's like taking all those pieces
0:06:27.161,0:06:29.281
from other conversations I've had before,
0:06:29.282,0:06:33.440
and a few key elements that really stick
0:06:33.441,0:06:35.960
is talking about establishing
0:06:36.160,0:06:39.161
but also maintaining the relationship,
0:06:39.162,0:06:42.760
so I think that's a really important part[br]of the way I see reconciliation.
0:06:43.160,0:06:44.640
I guess I was wondering
0:06:46.000,0:06:49.241
what are those ways[br]that you keep that maintenance piece
0:06:49.242,0:06:50.640
after you've established things
0:06:50.641,0:06:53.760
and once you really start[br]to dive into creating change
0:06:53.761,0:06:56.560
and looking into[br]how institutions are structured.
0:06:56.880,0:06:58.840
How do we ensure maintenance?
0:06:59.480,0:07:02.566
I think what I would highlight
0:07:02.566,0:07:06.171
is going back and referring[br]to the 94 calls to action.
0:07:06.640,0:07:11.321
Reason being is that there was[br]the Yellowhead Institute
0:07:11.322,0:07:13.160
that were doing these annual reports
0:07:13.480,0:07:14.560
monitoring the traction.
0:07:14.561,0:07:17.560
Even CBC had a website called Beyond 94.
0:07:18.080,0:07:22.040
You've seen a lot of the calls to action[br]lose a lot of momentum.
0:07:22.920,0:07:26.760
At the height when the 2015 report[br]was published,
0:07:26.760,0:07:28.600
there was increased public awareness,
0:07:28.920,0:07:30.080
but over a period of time,
0:07:30.481,0:07:32.760
the status quo started to come back
0:07:33.200,0:07:36.240
where the lack of agency or urgency
0:07:36.241,0:07:37.561
to make these changes occurred,
0:07:37.562,0:07:41.720
and then it got relegated to becoming[br]predominantly Indigenous narratives.
0:07:42.400,0:07:45.561
The narrative reconciliation[br]is not exclusive for Indigenous peoples.
0:07:45.562,0:07:46.680
It's for all Canadians,
0:07:46.681,0:07:47.880
and those calls to action
0:07:48.120,0:07:49.895
are for all of us to work together.
0:07:51.240,0:07:53.721
What I like to highlight[br]when you're talking about maintenance
0:07:53.722,0:07:56.120
is that awareness is one thing.
0:07:57.400,0:08:00.200
Most of these conversations[br]are being regulated
0:08:00.441,0:08:03.760
towards individual self-driven learning,
0:08:04.080,0:08:06.280
but I think what's important[br]to consider, though,
0:08:06.521,0:08:10.131
is that it does have to go forward[br]at an institutional level
0:08:11.172,0:08:12.320
to be sustainable,
0:08:12.320,0:08:15.560
but also not to become[br]just a narrative of the past.
0:08:16.120,0:08:19.841
For example, the 94 calls to action[br]are distinguished
0:08:19.842,0:08:21.302
into 1 to 42,
0:08:21.600,0:08:22.640
which deal with legacy
0:08:22.641,0:08:24.360
where you have the health system,
0:08:24.361,0:08:26.840
education system, the justice system,
0:08:27.080,0:08:29.560
the child welfare system,[br]language and culture,
0:08:29.761,0:08:32.041
which have a priority focus of legacy
0:08:32.042,0:08:34.600
that are still impacting[br]the quality of life
0:08:34.601,0:08:37.200
for Indigenous individuals,[br]families and communities today.
0:08:37.560,0:08:40.721
On the latter, institutions[br]who may not have inherited the legacy
0:08:40.722,0:08:42.560
are under 43 to 94,
0:08:43.080,0:08:44.601
but why I'm sharing this breakdown
0:08:44.602,0:08:46.200
when we're talking about maintaining
0:08:46.761,0:08:50.520
is that Yellowhead Institute[br]has identified
0:08:50.521,0:08:53.880
that most of the calls to actions[br]that are symbolic in nature
0:08:54.082,0:08:55.360
are being addressed,
0:08:55.560,0:08:58.880
but the ones that have to deal[br]with structural changes are not--
0:08:59.080,0:09:00.760
anything with data and metrics
0:09:00.761,0:09:03.201
and evaluating how we're improving.
0:09:03.202,0:09:06.160
So I think an important consideration is,
0:09:07.080,0:09:09.680
how do we move beyond awareness?
0:09:10.280,0:09:15.400
For example, the awareness[br]are predominantly symbolic and gesturing.
0:09:18.000,0:09:21.080
We have to consider these actionable steps
0:09:21.081,0:09:24.840
that we're dealing[br]with the complex of idea
0:09:24.841,0:09:27.040
that has been in effect[br]for thousands of years,
0:09:27.041,0:09:28.440
which is colonialism.
0:09:28.801,0:09:29.960
Thousands of years.
0:09:30.280,0:09:33.440
Now today, the narrative[br]reconciliation in Canada,
0:09:33.640,0:09:36.360
it's only been around for about ten years.
0:09:37.400,0:09:39.880
We as a country,[br]both Indigenous, non-Indigenous,
0:09:39.881,0:09:40.920
we can't lose hope
0:09:40.921,0:09:44.680
because you may feel self-defeated
0:09:44.681,0:09:46.920
if you don't see the changes[br]required or necessary,
0:09:46.921,0:09:49.080
but how we create that momentum
0:09:49.081,0:09:51.441
is reaching the hearts[br]and minds of Canadians,
0:09:51.442,0:09:53.440
both Indigenous and non-Indigenous.
0:09:54.080,0:09:55.681
That's how you deal with legacy.
0:09:55.682,0:09:58.401
That's how you create[br]a new path forward as a country,
0:09:58.402,0:09:59.800
is finding a new belief
0:09:59.801,0:10:01.880
and walking together and standing together
0:10:02.040,0:10:03.720
on what that belief may be.
0:10:05.280,0:10:07.200
Yeah, that's an excellent point.
0:10:07.201,0:10:08.240
Thank you for that.
0:10:08.401,0:10:11.080
Yeah, and I guess[br]when we talk about the history
0:10:11.081,0:10:14.080
and especially that awareness,[br]that acknowledgement,
0:10:14.081,0:10:16.361
how do we approach[br]that piece of accountability
0:10:16.362,0:10:19.560
for holding institutions accountable[br]for actions and systems
0:10:19.801,0:10:21.560
perpetuating racism in dance
0:10:21.561,0:10:24.560
but also not feeling stuck in the past
0:10:24.561,0:10:26.200
and really moving forward?
0:10:29.680,0:10:32.440
There will be challenges that arise.
0:10:32.680,0:10:33.885
Reason being is that
0:10:35.840,0:10:38.040
what I've seen in my experience
0:10:38.240,0:10:40.641
is that you're having a conversation
0:10:40.642,0:10:42.440
dealing with organizational culture.
0:10:44.160,0:10:45.921
With organizational culture,
0:10:45.922,0:10:49.320
it's predominantly two areas of focus,
0:10:49.321,0:10:52.401
which is the internal aspect[br]about how operations
0:10:52.402,0:10:55.480
and the strategic direction[br]of the organization may be.
0:10:55.681,0:10:56.720
For example,
0:10:58.080,0:11:01.241
if they are considerate[br]about moving from the awareness
0:11:01.242,0:11:04.120
to broader aspects[br]of institutional integrity,
0:11:05.000,0:11:07.680
there should be a strategic--[br]what they refer to as--
0:11:07.681,0:11:09.905
reconciliation action plans in effect
0:11:10.160,0:11:11.441
because you can evaluate
0:11:11.442,0:11:13.600
and monitor the progress and change
0:11:13.800,0:11:16.400
or maybe things[br]that could be approved upon,
0:11:16.681,0:11:18.400
or on the latter,
0:11:19.720,0:11:21.080
strategic realignments
0:11:21.081,0:11:24.440
to ensure that reconciliation[br]is a priority organization.
0:11:25.440,0:11:28.640
Where the other challenge arises, though,
0:11:28.641,0:11:31.241
is that when it's the external component--
0:11:31.242,0:11:33.640
when you're navigating[br]Indigenous relations
0:11:33.641,0:11:35.080
in the broader community--
0:11:36.040,0:11:40.240
do we have effective forms[br]of rapport building?
0:11:40.880,0:11:43.800
Usually, when programmatic initiatives[br]are established,
0:11:44.280,0:11:47.281
it's not involvement[br]in the preliminary stages.
0:11:47.282,0:11:48.881
It's usually when they're more advanced
0:11:48.882,0:11:51.240
and some initiatives already rolled out,
0:11:51.241,0:11:52.961
and then we reach out[br]to community and say,
0:11:52.962,0:11:54.360
"What do you think this may be?"
0:11:54.361,0:11:57.160
I think an important aspect[br]of consideration
0:11:57.480,0:12:01.240
is that let's go back[br]to our treaty relationship
0:12:01.241,0:12:02.721
about shared understanding
0:12:02.722,0:12:06.240
because that's where modes[br]of communications were understood,
0:12:07.120,0:12:10.390
cross-cultural communications[br]were built upon,
0:12:10.720,0:12:13.080
and they were adhered to[br]as part of a protocol
0:12:13.321,0:12:16.921
and also to the highest level[br]of relationship,
0:12:16.922,0:12:18.680
which is an act of diplomacy
0:12:18.681,0:12:21.480
by recognizing Indigenous nations.
0:12:22.640,0:12:25.200
If you're talking[br]about an institutional integrity
0:12:25.201,0:12:28.440
and, I think, for accountability[br]and transparency,
0:12:29.240,0:12:32.600
what do we do, though, if you experience[br]organizational resistance?
0:12:34.040,0:12:35.400
We are trying to improve,
0:12:35.401,0:12:37.200
but there is a reality
0:12:37.201,0:12:42.760
that racism still is impacting[br]relationships in our community.
0:12:43.160,0:12:45.840
I think an important consideration[br]for organizations
0:12:45.841,0:12:49.360
is that I always emphasize[br]processes of learning--
0:12:49.361,0:12:51.561
you're attaining new information[br]about the history,
0:12:51.562,0:12:54.440
the culture, traditions[br]of Indigenous peoples--
0:12:54.880,0:12:58.281
but for who is not involved[br]in this conversation,
0:12:58.282,0:13:00.200
which also should be a priority focus,
0:13:00.760,0:13:05.081
what if you're someone who has been part[br]of this generational attribute
0:13:05.082,0:13:07.920
of hearing misinformation, stereotypes,
0:13:08.200,0:13:09.881
negative views of Indigenous peoples?
0:13:10.080,0:13:12.480
You're going to start harbouring[br]these things internally.
0:13:12.920,0:13:15.081
So there's another conversation I feel
0:13:15.082,0:13:18.081
is that, what do we do[br]for the process of unlearning?
0:13:18.082,0:13:19.200
How do we support that?
0:13:19.961,0:13:22.320
When we talk[br]about bringing our circle together
0:13:22.760,0:13:26.001
as a Canadian society[br]but also to our colleagues,
0:13:26.002,0:13:28.520
those we share space with as a community,
0:13:28.880,0:13:31.561
is that we always have to have open hands
0:13:31.562,0:13:33.561
and be guided by cultural teachings.
0:13:33.562,0:13:37.400
I believe, for all of us,[br]Indigenous, non-Indigenous peoples,
0:13:37.640,0:13:39.400
those principles and those guides,
0:13:39.401,0:13:41.280
our teachings are rooted through the land.
0:13:41.481,0:13:45.961
That's where I guide myself[br]about maintaining reconciliation.
0:13:45.962,0:13:48.200
How do we navigate through those beliefs
0:13:48.201,0:13:49.760
as teachings of the land
0:13:50.161,0:13:51.840
for organizations to learn from?
0:13:52.681,0:13:55.280
In light of the organizational integrity,
0:13:55.600,0:13:57.425
Oya, I'd like to ask you,
0:13:57.880,0:13:59.480
what would that look like for you,
0:13:59.481,0:14:02.121
for organizations like NBS
0:14:02.122,0:14:05.200
and for the work[br]that you're doing or your studies?
0:14:06.480,0:14:07.736
Yeah. I think,
0:14:07.736,0:14:10.040
based on what I'm hearing you talk about
0:14:10.681,0:14:12.165
at an institutional level,
0:14:12.400,0:14:16.001
there's also the importance[br]of the representation of these people
0:14:16.002,0:14:17.960
within these institutions.
0:14:18.840,0:14:22.160
For example, I'm a member[br]of the Qawalangin tribe of Alaska.
0:14:23.160,0:14:26.080
Where the tribe lives,[br]it's way off the Aleutian Islands,
0:14:26.280,0:14:28.200
and they don't have access to dance--
0:14:29.628,0:14:31.029
to classical dance--
0:14:31.029,0:14:33.080
because they do have their own dances,
0:14:33.800,0:14:36.680
and they don't have access[br]to things like that training.
0:14:38.080,0:14:41.046
How would institutions such as these
0:14:41.046,0:14:44.480
improve accessibility[br]to people who live in those areas
0:14:44.481,0:14:46.520
or to people who live on reservations?
0:14:47.480,0:14:51.041
Also, to integrate the representation[br]of these cultures
0:14:51.042,0:14:53.040
and of the history of these people
0:14:53.521,0:14:54.561
in their dances
0:14:54.562,0:14:57.600
because most of classical ballet
0:14:57.601,0:14:59.440
is centred on European history.
0:15:00.680,0:15:03.961
Integrating that, but also[br]in a way that's respectful
0:15:03.962,0:15:06.040
to these cultures and their traditions.
0:15:07.000,0:15:08.920
On that note, I wanted to ask you,
0:15:09.200,0:15:11.361
how do big institutions like these
0:15:11.362,0:15:14.400
integrate the representation[br]of these cultures
0:15:14.800,0:15:17.361
or of these people into their institutions
0:15:17.362,0:15:19.520
while ensuring[br]that they're remaining respectful
0:15:19.521,0:15:21.840
to the traditions of these people?
0:15:23.440,0:15:26.320
I think what would be important
0:15:26.560,0:15:29.081
is kind of segueing[br]what you referred to in your remarks
0:15:29.082,0:15:30.761
of where you come from and reside
0:15:30.762,0:15:33.160
with regards to access and opportunity.
0:15:34.360,0:15:36.484
I think one of the fundamental challenges
0:15:36.484,0:15:37.489
that we see,
0:15:37.489,0:15:41.001
is what is our connectivity to each other
0:15:41.002,0:15:42.841
as Indigenous, non-Indigenous peoples?
0:15:42.842,0:15:43.881
I'm emphasizing
0:15:43.882,0:15:47.161
because I too come and reside[br]from a remote community.
0:15:47.162,0:15:49.560
I believe Sarah as well[br]when you said Norway,
0:15:49.561,0:15:50.840
how's your community...
0:15:51.320,0:15:52.360
Is that...
0:15:53.280,0:15:55.680
We have a geographical challenge with that
0:15:55.681,0:15:56.960
because, for example,
0:15:57.200,0:15:58.960
if you're a child of the north
0:15:59.201,0:16:01.760
and there are no programs available,
0:16:02.000,0:16:03.920
it might not be part of your perspective
0:16:03.921,0:16:06.120
to say that's something[br]you like to attribute
0:16:06.480,0:16:08.761
or be a part of your pathway[br]in your development
0:16:08.762,0:16:10.520
for opportunity,
0:16:10.760,0:16:13.240
for learning,[br]maybe even a potential career.
0:16:13.840,0:16:15.441
I think what's important
0:16:15.442,0:16:20.000
about going away from the politics[br]of this conversation
0:16:20.001,0:16:22.520
is that if we're talking[br]about relationships,
0:16:22.881,0:16:25.121
I think, is gathering information,
0:16:25.122,0:16:28.400
establishing meaningful protocols[br]and pathways
0:16:28.840,0:16:31.160
about community connections.
0:16:32.560,0:16:34.321
For many of these stories--
0:16:34.322,0:16:36.360
and you talked especially[br]about the integrity,
0:16:36.361,0:16:38.960
about how do you embed[br]culture into the practice--
0:16:39.280,0:16:42.521
is that the thematic is the fine line
0:16:42.522,0:16:44.001
between cultural appropriation
0:16:44.002,0:16:45.680
and cultural appreciation.
0:16:47.600,0:16:48.840
In past, though,
0:16:49.321,0:16:53.001
those integrity lines[br]were never established.
0:16:53.002,0:16:55.040
It would just be taking from cultures,
0:16:55.321,0:16:57.400
taking stories, taking experiences
0:16:57.401,0:17:01.360
without any form[br]of consultation engagement.
0:17:02.000,0:17:04.362
I think what's important, [br]though, is that--
0:17:04.665,0:17:06.801
I have a disclaimer for myself,
0:17:06.802,0:17:08.280
which I think others can use,
0:17:08.520,0:17:10.760
is I never tell stories[br]that are not my own.
0:17:11.680,0:17:14.120
I think for the arts, film and media
0:17:14.121,0:17:15.725
and then even in ballet,
0:17:16.480,0:17:17.680
there may be potential
0:17:17.681,0:17:21.881
where the consideration[br]for those stories and experiences
0:17:21.882,0:17:23.320
about how are they being captured
0:17:23.321,0:17:29.200
because I think[br]a cultural sensitivity element, though--
0:17:29.641,0:17:31.000
Here's the irony of that.
0:17:31.160,0:17:33.720
When we talk[br]about residential school experiences,
0:17:34.000,0:17:35.360
there are many community members
0:17:35.361,0:17:37.680
who've been trying[br]to tell their story for so long,
0:17:37.920,0:17:39.040
and no one was listening.
0:17:39.361,0:17:40.640
We have a problem
0:17:40.641,0:17:43.200
about many community members[br]suffering in silence,
0:17:43.640,0:17:46.360
but those are stories[br]that were negatively impacted,
0:17:46.680,0:17:50.040
but the ones that they consider[br]positive elements of the culture
0:17:50.280,0:17:51.361
are being exploited
0:17:51.362,0:17:54.040
because those are things[br]that people want to experience.
0:17:54.480,0:17:55.681
I think what's important
0:17:55.682,0:17:59.880
is that if we're going to have[br]these conversations to move forward,
0:18:00.080,0:18:02.800
is meeting both parties[br]of where they're currently at.
0:18:03.160,0:18:05.640
If you're dealing with a community[br]who's dealing with hurt
0:18:05.841,0:18:07.000
and some challenges,
0:18:07.360,0:18:10.519
maybe it's not appropriate[br]to develop those partnerships,
0:18:10.520,0:18:12.111
but if there are some that are ready...
0:18:12.111,0:18:16.080
I think the element[br]that's attributed for this too
0:18:16.321,0:18:20.640
is that there's a necessary step[br]of healing in this conversation
0:18:20.960,0:18:22.400
because through healing,
0:18:23.080,0:18:25.400
that's how you build these bridges[br]amongst peoples,
0:18:25.401,0:18:27.640
amongst the Indigenous,[br]non-Indigenous peoples.
0:18:28.720,0:18:30.881
These organizations can ask yourselves,
0:18:30.882,0:18:34.040
what appropriate mechanisms,[br]protocols and pathways
0:18:34.320,0:18:35.960
and avenues have we established
0:18:35.961,0:18:38.281
to maintain cultural sensitivity,
0:18:38.282,0:18:39.320
cultural awareness
0:18:39.561,0:18:42.320
and also, how do we move forward[br]to being sensitive
0:18:42.640,0:18:44.760
and about how we're navigating[br]our path forward?
0:18:45.200,0:18:47.160
Yeah, and I think it can be such a barrier
0:18:47.161,0:18:50.841
when you don't see your own stories[br]or your own history
0:18:50.842,0:18:53.080
being represented in things such as dance.
0:18:54.002,0:18:56.481
That itself can create a disconnect
0:18:56.482,0:18:59.201
from wanting to connect[br]with classical ballet
0:18:59.202,0:19:02.161
or contemporary[br]and anything in that stream,
0:19:02.162,0:19:04.281
but I think embracing the intersections
0:19:04.282,0:19:06.080
between that historical essence
0:19:06.081,0:19:08.161
and modern-day cultural influences
0:19:08.162,0:19:09.920
as we keep moving things forward
0:19:10.160,0:19:11.389
is so important to consider,
0:19:11.389,0:19:13.339
especially with what you were saying about
0:19:13.628,0:19:15.280
it's not necessarily unique to dance,
0:19:15.281,0:19:17.480
and there are so many other streams
0:19:17.481,0:19:19.615
that we can learn from as well.
0:19:20.520,0:19:21.520
Yep.
0:19:21.521,0:19:24.080
In Cree, there's a word,[br]we would say (Cree phrase),
0:19:24.081,0:19:25.520
which means "right on."
0:19:27.000,0:19:28.000
(Cree phrase)
0:19:28.960,0:19:29.960
I love that.
0:19:30.320,0:19:36.280
I guess coming from the perspective[br]of a non-Indigenous person
0:19:36.641,0:19:38.360
connecting to these issues,
0:19:38.800,0:19:41.041
just to look at it[br]from another perspective,
0:19:41.042,0:19:43.321
what do you say[br]to someone or an organization
0:19:43.322,0:19:46.480
who outwardly is not against[br]the process of reconciliation
0:19:46.481,0:19:48.240
but maybe lacks that knowledge
0:19:48.480,0:19:52.400
or the connection[br]to feel that true responsibility
0:19:52.840,0:19:55.800
and understand the importance[br]of the role that they're playing in this?
0:19:57.600,0:20:02.441
The way I first considered,[br]though, is that in Canada,
0:20:02.442,0:20:04.840
when I mentioned the 94 calls to action,
0:20:06.400,0:20:09.520
call to action 94 was intended
0:20:09.521,0:20:11.520
to update the oath of citizenship
0:20:11.880,0:20:14.505
to recognize Aboriginal treaty rights.
0:20:14.960,0:20:17.400
Just to give you a bit[br]of background of terminologies,
0:20:18.280,0:20:19.800
Aboriginal and Indigenous
0:20:20.041,0:20:22.201
are predominantly interchangeable[br]in Canada
0:20:22.202,0:20:25.240
because there is a branch of law[br]called Aboriginal law
0:20:25.800,0:20:27.160
under Section 35.
0:20:28.241,0:20:30.230
If you want to research on your own time,
0:20:30.600,0:20:32.961
Indigenous peoples advocated
0:20:32.962,0:20:36.120
what was called[br]the Constitutional Express in the 1980s
0:20:36.320,0:20:37.600
because the government of Canada
0:20:37.601,0:20:39.721
didn't want to recognize[br]Aboriginal treaties.
0:20:39.722,0:20:41.800
They want to fulfill assimilation,
0:20:42.081,0:20:45.720
but through direct[br]political action mobilization,
0:20:46.120,0:20:47.640
it went to Ottawa, to New York,
0:20:47.641,0:20:48.840
it went to London, England,
0:20:48.841,0:20:52.240
and then the government[br]then reconsidered its position
0:20:52.241,0:20:56.401
to recognize and enshrine[br]under Section 25/35,
0:20:56.402,0:20:58.360
which is where Aboriginal treaty rights.
0:20:58.960,0:21:00.690
Then how that ties in, though,
0:21:01.400,0:21:03.160
is that now Canadians today,
0:21:03.161,0:21:05.440
as we move forward to 94 calls to action,
0:21:05.880,0:21:07.960
have the oath of citizenship[br]that recognized,
0:21:07.961,0:21:10.040
so there's a concept that I do promote:
0:21:10.721,0:21:12.145
It's a duty to learn.
0:21:12.320,0:21:15.720
It is your duty as a Canadian[br]and your responsibility.
0:21:16.920,0:21:18.080
What happens for many,
0:21:18.281,0:21:20.000
they wait for change to come.
0:21:20.000,0:21:23.800
If you were dealing with institutions[br]that are lapsing is that
0:21:25.000,0:21:26.880
if you look at some[br]of the challenges, though,
0:21:26.881,0:21:29.960
there's an unfortunate date[br]that occurred 2021
0:21:29.961,0:21:31.720
with the unmarked graves in Canada.
0:21:32.520,0:21:34.200
When that was established
0:21:35.960,0:21:37.200
and more recognized,
0:21:38.720,0:21:41.000
the ground-penetrating radar[br]across Canada
0:21:41.241,0:21:45.280
reviewing sites of residential schools[br]and the cemeteries.
0:21:45.760,0:21:48.280
Call to action number 80 was addressed
0:21:48.520,0:21:49.520
in two weeks of that,
0:21:49.521,0:21:51.761
from May 2021 to June 2021,
0:21:51.762,0:21:55.240
which was a National Day[br]for Truth and Reconciliation.
0:21:55.960,0:21:58.040
That was already called for 2015.
0:21:58.041,0:21:59.081
It took six years,
0:21:59.082,0:22:02.600
and then the stories of our ancestors
0:22:02.881,0:22:05.720
and the land speaking to us,[br]like I mentioned earlier.
0:22:06.880,0:22:08.520
If you want to refer to Canadians
0:22:08.521,0:22:10.521
as kind of markers to attribute
0:22:10.522,0:22:12.400
in your learning as a duty,
0:22:12.641,0:22:14.120
I have four criterias,
0:22:14.840,0:22:17.200
which is historical literacy--
0:22:17.640,0:22:21.680
reason being, we still deal[br]with denialism in our country.
0:22:22.080,0:22:25.680
You can give people the truth[br]of the experiences and stories,
0:22:26.160,0:22:28.441
but because their internal resistance
0:22:28.442,0:22:29.840
to what they've been told
0:22:30.200,0:22:33.000
will be challenging[br]what they've been presented with.
0:22:33.400,0:22:36.720
So historical literacy[br]is where accountability is to say,
0:22:37.000,0:22:39.521
"These are the facts[br]of what occurred, of history
0:22:39.522,0:22:41.240
and our experiences of our people."
0:22:41.880,0:22:43.280
The other aspect, though, I think,
0:22:43.281,0:22:44.801
if we talk about culture,
0:22:44.802,0:22:47.040
building bridges[br]and learning from each other--
0:22:47.281,0:22:48.920
that's contextual understanding.
0:22:49.200,0:22:51.720
When you want to build your skill set,
0:22:52.000,0:22:54.280
historical literacy,[br]contextual understanding,
0:22:54.800,0:22:57.880
but the last area I want to focus[br]is the professional
0:22:57.881,0:23:00.120
because this could be[br]for students, professionals,
0:23:00.601,0:23:03.160
but as a professional, though,[br]and as a Canadian,
0:23:06.720,0:23:08.591
my path to reconciliation, [br]and many others,
0:23:08.591,0:23:10.081
does not end between nine to five,
0:23:10.082,0:23:11.320
but for some, it does.
0:23:11.640,0:23:13.560
They think it's associated[br]to the workplace,
0:23:13.561,0:23:15.761
but for us, we carry these stories home,
0:23:15.762,0:23:18.280
and it's part of our day-to-day.
0:23:18.700,0:23:20.400
But for professionals, though,
0:23:20.680,0:23:24.361
is to promote culturally-informed[br]and trauma-informed in their practices,
0:23:24.362,0:23:27.800
so those integrated things[br]are tools and ways
0:23:28.161,0:23:30.560
that you can advance[br]your own personal journey
0:23:30.561,0:23:33.200
in learning forward[br]of what reconciliation means.
0:23:34.000,0:23:37.600
Yeah. It's so easy to be afraid[br]of the vastness of the whole issue itself.
0:23:38.040,0:23:40.521
It's great what you're mentioning[br]and excellent to keep in mind
0:23:40.522,0:23:43.480
and help everyone stay connected
0:23:43.481,0:23:45.000
and feeling unified
0:23:45.200,0:23:47.160
because this isn't a singular issue.
0:23:47.720,0:23:48.720
No.
0:23:50.960,0:23:52.880
Yeah, I think that's especially important
0:23:52.881,0:23:55.920
among, yes, the professionals,[br]but also the students
0:23:56.200,0:23:59.360
because, for example,[br]I've had people tell me,
0:23:59.921,0:24:01.520
"That happened a long time ago,"
0:24:01.920,0:24:06.520
but the history is still there[br]within all of these people
0:24:06.521,0:24:08.320
whose ancestors lived through that,
0:24:08.640,0:24:10.000
so it's still...
0:24:11.840,0:24:14.881
The process of reconciliation[br]still needs to happen today,
0:24:14.882,0:24:17.910
even though it was in "the past" per se.
0:24:19.440,0:24:22.920
What I think is important[br]to build upon your point, Sarah and Oya,
0:24:22.921,0:24:28.440
is that always humanize[br]the conversation of reconciliation.
0:24:30.200,0:24:31.601
If you look at the impacts
0:24:31.602,0:24:35.320
about how Indigenous peoples[br]have been negatively viewed,
0:24:35.640,0:24:37.560
there is a natural symptom of this,
0:24:38.080,0:24:40.840
which is they refer to as "dehumanization"
0:24:41.121,0:24:42.680
and "depersonalization."
0:24:43.480,0:24:46.640
The challenge that we have[br]with denialism is you downplay,
0:24:47.001,0:24:48.040
you deny,
0:24:48.520,0:24:50.120
and then also to just downgrade,
0:24:50.121,0:24:51.520
which occurred.
0:24:52.840,0:24:55.961
If we look at these impacts, though,[br]about dehumanization,
0:24:55.962,0:24:57.960
that's why you had[br]some of these narratives
0:24:58.360,0:24:59.361
in Canada,
0:24:59.362,0:25:02.000
such as missing murdered[br]Indigenous women in Canada
0:25:02.481,0:25:05.800
where there wasn't much traction happening
0:25:05.801,0:25:07.960
to address the changes
0:25:08.240,0:25:11.800
that are impacting Indigenous women[br]across the country into spirit.
0:25:14.520,0:25:16.440
What that barrier is, though,
0:25:16.840,0:25:19.000
is that if you try to build bridges,
0:25:20.480,0:25:23.040
if you're dealing with racism[br]and discrimination
0:25:23.281,0:25:29.760
and then also to just this disparity[br]of not viewing each other as equals,
0:25:30.520,0:25:32.640
is that how do you reach hearts and minds?
0:25:33.240,0:25:35.560
One of the things, I think,[br]is an important tool kit,
0:25:35.561,0:25:36.761
not just for professionals
0:25:36.762,0:25:39.360
but for you as young leaders,
0:25:39.560,0:25:42.680
I'm going to share with you[br]a personal story
0:25:43.040,0:25:44.601
that occurred to me of us
0:25:44.602,0:25:46.000
when I spoke at a school,
0:25:46.320,0:25:48.240
and this is a grade-three student.
0:25:49.400,0:25:52.640
I was speaking,[br]sharing about reconciliation
0:25:52.641,0:25:56.450
for just a teacher's event[br]in Toronto at the East End.
0:25:57.520,0:25:58.960
I finished my talk.
0:26:01.560,0:26:03.401
Children sat there, and when I finished,
0:26:03.402,0:26:06.160
all the parents and teachers[br]got up to thank me.
0:26:07.560,0:26:09.761
There was about 40-50[br]of these kids sitting there,
0:26:09.762,0:26:11.921
and I asked them,[br]"Do you have anything to share?"
0:26:11.922,0:26:14.120
and they all raised their hands,[br]"Me, me, me, me, me."
0:26:14.961,0:26:16.440
I asked this one child,
0:26:16.680,0:26:17.961
"Do you have anything to share?"
0:26:17.962,0:26:20.921
and this is what this child[br]that stood up and said,
0:26:20.922,0:26:22.681
I'm going to quote--[br]I quote it every time.
0:26:22.682,0:26:25.281
He goes, "Michael,[br]interesting presentation.
0:26:25.282,0:26:26.521
Very interesting."
0:26:26.522,0:26:28.600
I said, "Thank you.[br]Do you have anything to share?"
0:26:29.040,0:26:30.520
This child said,
0:26:31.721,0:26:33.520
"I have one thing to ask you, Michael.
0:26:33.760,0:26:36.481
When our parents and teachers[br]going to catch up to us?"
0:26:36.482,0:26:39.760
and was stern about it, sat down.
0:26:39.921,0:26:41.440
I asked third grade, and they went,
0:26:41.961,0:26:43.040
"I'm in grade three."
0:26:45.560,0:26:46.800
That never left me.
0:26:46.801,0:26:50.040
Reason being[br]is that the parents were invested,
0:26:50.400,0:26:53.240
but the quality of care, it was a moment,
0:26:53.680,0:26:55.120
but for whatever reason,
0:26:56.040,0:26:57.680
these young students,
0:26:58.040,0:26:59.600
something reached their hearts
0:26:59.801,0:27:02.395
that made them all want the state[br]to learn more.
0:27:03.800,0:27:05.280
When you look at yourself,
0:27:05.600,0:27:06.840
you are a bridge.
0:27:06.841,0:27:08.680
They call this the river of life
0:27:09.560,0:27:11.241
to think about our considerations
0:27:11.242,0:27:13.840
and to advance your skillships[br]and all students
0:27:15.040,0:27:18.760
under NBS and the Ballet Forward,[br]across this institution,
0:27:19.361,0:27:24.160
is that how do we honour our ancestors,[br]our stories of the past?
0:27:24.800,0:27:26.760
We are doing our work here today,
0:27:27.240,0:27:30.240
but the ripple effect[br]that we have an agency for
0:27:30.720,0:27:32.000
are those that are yet to come,
0:27:32.001,0:27:35.320
which are what you call your past,[br]present and future generations,
0:27:35.561,0:27:37.080
and we are part of that thread.
0:27:37.481,0:27:38.920
So I'm doing my part.
0:27:39.320,0:27:42.346
My call to action for those[br]that are listening is,
0:27:42.346,0:27:44.200
what are they going[br]to be doing for their part?
0:27:44.760,0:27:48.040
Always be mindful[br]that you create a ripple effect
0:27:48.041,0:27:49.921
for those that you meet day-to-day,
0:27:49.922,0:27:53.600
and then also to those[br]that you may have yet to meet.
0:27:53.601,0:27:56.041
So always honour your ancestors,
0:27:56.042,0:27:57.721
pay respects to who you see today
0:27:57.722,0:27:59.321
and be mindful of your steps
0:27:59.322,0:28:02.080
that you're leaving for the path forward[br]to the next generations.
0:28:03.160,0:28:04.680
Yeah, that's an incredible story.
0:28:04.681,0:28:06.560
I think just that child's awareness
0:28:06.561,0:28:10.040
really is such a sign[br]of progress in this area
0:28:10.041,0:28:13.041
that someone so young[br]can have that awareness
0:28:13.042,0:28:16.520
of the steps that need to be taken
0:28:16.521,0:28:19.800
and where the gaps are, I guess.
0:28:20.720,0:28:23.600
Just to finish it off, I wanted to ask,
0:28:23.601,0:28:27.600
I know reconciliation[br]is pretty much a never-ending process,
0:28:28.080,0:28:30.080
but what does success
0:28:30.321,0:28:33.045
in terms of reconciliation[br]look like to you?
0:28:36.440,0:28:39.840
I like the remarks that Sarah said[br]about maintenance,
0:28:40.920,0:28:43.320
and I'll answer that through treaties.
0:28:44.800,0:28:46.520
When I said the river of life,
0:28:46.800,0:28:48.681
there is a treaty phrase they say,
0:28:48.682,0:28:50.161
"As long as the sun shines,
0:28:50.162,0:28:52.102
the grass grows and rivers flow,
0:28:52.720,0:28:54.480
these relationships[br]will always be ongoing."
0:28:54.481,0:28:57.840
This is the agreement between Indigenous,[br]non-Indigenous peoples.
0:28:58.760,0:29:01.320
They did something interesting[br]in the past.
0:29:01.800,0:29:04.270
They used to exchange gifts every year,
0:29:04.800,0:29:06.800
and they had also in this area,
0:29:07.080,0:29:09.550
they held the Silver Covenant Chain,
0:29:10.080,0:29:12.520
and they had these wampum belts,
0:29:12.761,0:29:14.960
these exchanges with the Haudenosaunee
0:29:15.760,0:29:19.080
where they would renew[br]their commitments to each other.
0:29:19.640,0:29:21.040
I think for that,
0:29:22.040,0:29:23.800
with the treaties in Canada,
0:29:24.240,0:29:26.640
you have rights,[br]obligations, responsibilities,
0:29:26.880,0:29:28.120
and those always teach you
0:29:28.121,0:29:31.040
what our rights[br]and responsibilities are to each other.
0:29:31.320,0:29:32.720
So we have to find form.
0:29:33.720,0:29:37.330
I would say, with regards[br]to how I envision this,
0:29:37.800,0:29:40.161
is toning down back to our core teachings
0:29:40.162,0:29:42.081
of land and people,[br]people and environment,
0:29:42.082,0:29:43.320
all my relations,
0:29:43.640,0:29:46.561
and knowing what our rights,[br]obligations and responsibilities are
0:29:46.562,0:29:47.600
to each other.
0:29:48.040,0:29:49.880
With that being said, though,[br]I thank you both,
0:29:49.881,0:29:53.640
and great success[br]in your career and your studies.
0:29:53.841,0:29:55.960
Both Sarah and Oya, thank you very much.
0:29:56.240,0:29:57.761
In Cree, we would say kinanâskomitin,
0:29:57.762,0:29:58.840
so thank you.
0:29:59.480,0:30:01.800
- (Oya) Thank you.[br]- (Sarah) Thank you very much, Michael.
0:30:02.240,0:30:03.241
Thank you.
0:30:03.242,0:30:06.640
I hope that everyone was able[br]to learn something
0:30:06.641,0:30:07.920
with this conversation,
0:30:08.120,0:30:10.121
and I hope that there is something
0:30:10.122,0:30:12.641
that everyone took with them from this
0:30:12.641,0:30:14.880
that they're able to share[br]in their community
0:30:15.280,0:30:19.560
or that they're able[br]to tell their fellow peers
0:30:19.561,0:30:23.280
or other people[br]within their social groups.
0:30:24.920,0:30:25.920
Yeah.
0:30:28.241,0:30:29.840
Yeah. Thank you so much.
0:30:31.200,0:30:32.880
If you want to start with something easy,
0:30:32.881,0:30:35.680
you can follow our Instagram,[br]@balletforward,
0:30:35.920,0:30:38.920
and keep up to date[br]with any ongoing events.
0:30:38.921,0:30:40.281
But thank you so much, Michael.
0:30:40.282,0:30:41.720
- Thank you, Oya.[br]- Thank you.
0:30:41.721,0:30:43.160
Thank you, everyone listening.
0:30:43.600,0:30:45.160
(Ojibwe language) Miigwech. Thank you.
0:30:45.161,0:30:46.280
(Ojibwe language) Miigwech.