Okay. It's great to be here with you both today.
I'm so excited for this conversation.
Welcome everyone to our discussion
with Michael Etherington,
Reconciliation in Motion:
Stepping into a Better Future.
My name is Sarah [Frase].
I'm a member of Ballet Forward.
Currently, I'm a student with Arts Umbrella
in their Postsecondary program here in Vancouver,
but I'm [inaudible]
and I'm a member of Norway House Cree Nation.
I'm joined today by a fellow Ballet Forward member,
Oya, if you'd like to introduce yourself.
Hello. My name is Oyafunke, but I go by Oya.
I am from the US,
but I'm a Ballet Forward member,
and I currently study at the Royal Winnipeg Ballet School.
Yeah, and we're both members of Ballet Forward,
a group of young dancers from across Canada
dedicated to addressing systemic issues
within the dance industry.
Talks like these are just one way that we're getting started,
but we really have so much more planned,
and we're really excited to be here today with you, Michael.
If you'd like to give a little introduction.
We've had a few discussions before,
but for everyone listening,
tell us a bit about yourself.
Thank you. (Ojibwe language) Miigwech. Very briefly...
(speaking in foreign language)
I'm originally from the north
in Treaty No. 9 territory.
I'm a member of Fort Albany First Nation,
and my spirit name is (Ojibwe phrase),
which means "walks with a feather,"
and I think in nature of the conversation as well,
which I tried to highlight
and with what I carry for myself is
to walk slowly, not walk too fast.
I think that's a reminder for all of us
on this learning journey of reconciliation.
I look forward to spending a bit of my time
and speaking with you both today.
Thank you. (Ojibwe language) Miigwech.
Amazing. It's great to have you.
I just wanted to start off the conversation,
asking what is reconciliation to you,
and what are the different aspects
or levels of reconciliation
because we know that it has so many aspects,
not just the recognition of the history
and its effects,
but also the active steps
to break down the systemic barriers
put in place by the legacy that that history left.
To frame the conversation
is to highlight with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
They had established a final report
that was published in 2015,
and prior to that,
narratives of reconciliation happened around the 1990s
following the Oka Crisis,
which was a violent conflict
that happened with regards to traditional burial grounds.
There was a Royal Commission established
on Aboriginal peoples
with a final report issued in 1996,
and then, subsequently, the Ministry of Indian Affairs,
and the Minister of Indian Affairs, Jane Stewart,
issued a statement of reconciliation,
but prior to that,
there wasn't really much narratives
because a lot of the history was suppressed
and also too many community members didn't have any forms
to tell their stories or experience
about the legacy of residential schools.
Following that, there was a class action lawsuit,
the Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement,
which is where the TRC was established
from under schedule.
What's important to consider, I think, for everyone, though,
is that as this work and call to action was moved forward,
there were 94 calls to action.
I think what's important to recognize
is a working definition
about how we move forward,
whether it's as a community-based
or as an organization.
So the TRC did have a definition
that focused predominantly on relationships.
Within those relationships,
it has four criterias,
which are awareness of the past,
acknowledgement of the harm,
atonement for the causes
and action to change.
I utilize those as pathways
about how we move forward.
I think an important question
to frame this conversation before I continue is
I always say "personal and professional."
Personally, I think, is where the conversation should start
because the TRC had three central themes
when the final report was issued.
It had to focus more specific about self-determination,
cultural revitalization
and racism and discrimination.
If you think about the legacy--
many institutions that are perpetuating,
such as the justice system, child welfare--
they may have to deal with things of the TRC theme
of racism, discrimination,
but both the legacy for community members that are impacted,
cultural revitalization,
loss of language,
impacts of identity.
Murray Sinclair had four central questions
to ask about yourself
with regards to reclaim your culture,
is knowing who you are,
where you come from,
where you're going and what's your responsibilities
because the legacy of residential schools
and the impacts of Indigenous peoples,
Indigenous individuals,
families and communities
was to sever your connection and belonging
and to not be able to answer those questions.
So many Indigenous families are working through,
trying to reclaim those aspects of who they are
and where they come from
and in the latter aspect about self-determination.
In Canada, we have conflicting narratives
with regards to assimilation policies of the legacy,
but also we have inherent rights through treaties,
so as we move forward as a country, for many Canadians,
is that to recognize the inherent rights
and that we do work in shared prosperity
and walking a path together.
I think,
also before we segue
is that have either of you considered what reconciliation means to you at all?
If I ask you what does reconciliation mean to you,
have you considered or have an understanding for yourselves as of yet
as young leaders?
Yeah, I think, for me, reconciliation,
it's like taking all those pieces
from other conversations I've had before,
and a few key elements that really stick
is talking about establishing
but also maintaining the relationship,
so I think that's a really important part of the way I see reconciliation.
I guess I was wondering
what are those ways that you keep that maintenance piece
after you've established things
and once you really start to dive into creating change
and looking into how institutions are structured.
How do we ensure maintenance?
I think what I would highlight
is going back and referring to the 94 calls to action.
Reason being is that there was the Yellowhead Institute
that were doing these annual reports
monitoring the traction.
Even CBC had a website called Beyond 94.
You've seen a lot of the calls to action lose a lot of momentum.
At the height when the 2015 report was published,
there was increased public awareness,
but over a period of time,
the status quo started to come back
where the lack of agency or urgency
to make these changes occurred,
and then it got relegated to becoming predominantly Indigenous narratives.
The narrative reconciliation is not exclusive for Indigenous peoples.
It's for all Canadians,
and those calls to action
are for all of us to work together.
What I like to highlight when you're talking about maintenance
is that awareness is one thing.
Most of these conversations are being regulated
towards individual self-driven learning,
but I think what's important to consider, though,
is that it does have to go forward at an institutional level
to be sustainable,
but also not to become just a narrative of the past.
For example, the 94 calls to action are distinguished
into 1 to 42,
which deal with legacy
where you have the health system,
education system, the justice system,
the child welfare system, like language and culture,
which have a priority focus of legacy
that are still impacting the quality of life
for Indigenous individuals, families and communities today.
On the latter, institutions who may not have inherited the legacy
are under 43 to 94,
but why I'm sharing this breakdown
when we're talking about maintaining
is that Yellowhead Institute has identified
that most of the calls to actions that are symbolic in nature
are being addressed,
but the ones that have to deal with structural changes are not--
anything with data and metrics
and evaluating how we're improving--
so I think an important consideration is,
how do we move beyond awareness?
For example, the awareness are predominantly symbolic and gesturing.
We have to consider these actionable steps
that we're dealing with the complex of idea
that has been in effect for thousands of years,
which is colonialism.
Thousands of years.
Now today, the narrative reconciliation in Canada,
it's only been around for about ten years.
We as a country, both Indigenous, non-Indigenous,
we can't lose hope
because you may feel self-defeated
if you don't see the changes required or necessary,
but how we create that momentum
is reaching the hearts and minds of Canadians,
both Indigenous and non-Indigenous.
That's how you deal with legacy.
That's how you create a new path forward as a country
is finding a new belief
and walking together and standing together
on what that belief may be.
Yeah, that's an excellent point.
Thank you for that.
Yeah, and I guess when we talk about the history
and especially that awareness, that acknowledgement,
how do we approach that piece of accountability
for holding institutions accountable for actions and systems
perpetuating racism in dance
but also not feeling stuck in the past
and really moving forward?
There will be challenges that arise.
Reason being is that
what I've seen in my experience
is that you're having a conversation
dealing with organizational culture.
With organizational culture,
it's predominantly two areas of focus,
which is the internal aspect about how operations
and the strategic direction of the organization may be.
For example,
if they are considerate about moving from the awareness
to broader aspects of institutional integrity,
there should be a strategic-- what they refer to as--
reconciliation action plans in effect
because you can evaluate
and monitor the progress and change
or maybe things that could be approved upon,
or on the latter,
strategic realignments
to ensure that reconciliation is a priority organization.
Where the other challenge arises, though,
is that when it's the external component
is when you're navigating Indigenous relations
in the broader community,
do we have effective forms of rapport building?
Usually when programmatic initiatives are established,
it's not involvement in the preliminary stages.
It's usually when they're more advanced
and some initiatives already rolled out,
and then we reach out to community and say,
"What do you think this may be?"
I think an important aspect of consideration
is that let's go back to our treaty relationship
about shared understanding
because that's where modes of communications were understood,
cross-cultural communications were built upon,
and they were adhered to as part of a protocol
and also to the highest level of relationship,
which is an act of diplomacy
by recognizing Indigenous nations.
If you're talking about an institutional integrity
and, I think, for accountability and transparency,
what do we do, though, if you experience organizational resistance?
We are trying to improve,
but there is a reality
that racism still is impacting relationships in our community.
I think an important consideration for organizations
is that I always emphasize processes of learning--
you're attaining new information about the history,
the culture, traditions of Indigenous peoples--
but for who is not involved in this conversation,
which also should be a priority focus,
what if you're someone who has been part of this generational attribute
of hearing misinformation, stereotypes,
negative views of Indigenous peoples?
You're going to start harbouring these things internally.
So there's another conversation I feel
is that, what do we do for the process of unlearning?
How do we support that?
When we talk about bringing our circle together
as a Canadian society but also to our colleagues,
those we share space with as a community,
is that we always have to have open hands
and be guided by cultural teachings.
I believe, for all of us, Indigenous, non-Indigenous peoples,
those principles and those guides,
our teachings are rooted through the land.
That's where I guide myself about maintaining reconciliation.
How do we navigate through those beliefs
as teachings of the land
for organizations to learn from?
In light of the organizational integrity,
Oya, I'd like to ask you,
what would that look like for you,
for organizations like NBS
and for the work that you're doing or your studies?
Yeah. I think,
based on what I'm hearing you talk about
at an institutional level,
there's also the importance of the representation of these people
within these institutions.
For example, I'm a member of the Qawalangin tribe of Alaska.
Where the tribe lives, it's way off the Aleutian Islands,
and they don't have access to dance--
to classical dance--
because they do have their own dances,
and they don't have access to things like that training.
How would institutions such as these
improve accessibility to people who live in those areas
or to people who live on reservations?
Also, to integrate the representation of these cultures
and of the history of these people
in their dances
because most of classical ballet
is centred on European history.
Integrating that, but also in a way that's respectful
to these cultures and their traditions.
On that note, I wanted to ask you,
how do big institutions like these
integrate the representation of these cultures
or of these people into their institutions
while ensuring that they're remaining respectful
to the traditions of these people?
I think what would be important
is kind of segueing what you referred to in your remarks
of where you come from and reside
with regards to access and opportunity.
I think one of the fundamental challenges
that we see,
is what is our connectivity to each other
as Indigenous, non-Indigenous peoples?
I'm emphasizing
because I too come and reside from a remote community.
I believe Sarah as well when you said Norway.
How's your community...
Is that...
We have a geographical challenge with that
because, for example,
if you're a child of the north
and there are no programs available,
it might not be part of your perspective
to say that's something you like to attribute
or be a part of your pathway in your development
for opportunity,
for learning, maybe even a potential career.
I think what's important
about going away from the politics of this conversation
is that if we're talking about relationships,
I think, is gathering information,
establishing meaningful protocols and pathways
about community connections.
For many of these stories--
and you talked especially about the integrity,
about how do you embed culture into the practice--
is that the thematic is the fine line
between cultural appropriation
and cultural appreciation.
In past, though,
those integrity lines were never established.
It would just be taking from cultures,
taking stories, taking experiences
without any form of consultation engagement.
I think what's important, though,
is that I have a disclaimer for myself,
which I think others can use,
is I never tell stories that are not my own.
I think for the arts, film and media
and then even in ballet,
there may be potential
where the consideration for those stories and experiences
about how are they being captured
because I think a cultural sensitivity element, though...
Here's the irony of that.
When we talk about residential school experiences,
there are many community members
who've been trying to tell their story for so long,
and no one was listening.
We have a problem
about many community members suffering in silence,
but those are stories that were negatively impacted,
but the ones that they consider positive elements of the culture
are being exploited
because those are things that people want to experience.
I think what's important
is that if we're going to have these conversations to move forward,
is meeting both parties of where they're currently at.
If you're dealing with a community who's dealing with hurt
and some challenges,
maybe it's not appropriate to develop those partnerships,
but if there are some that are ready...
I think the element that's attributed for this too
is that there's a necessary step of healing in this conversation
because through healing,
that's how you build these bridges amongst peoples,
amongst the Indigenous, non-Indigenous peoples.
These organizations can ask yourselves,
what appropriate mechanisms, protocols and pathways
and avenues have we established
to maintain cultural sensitivity,
cultural awareness
and also how do we move forward to being sensitive
and about how we're navigating our path forward?
Yeah, and I think it can be such a barrier
when you don't see your own stories or your own history
being represented in things such as dance.
That itself can create a disconnect
from wanting to connect with classical ballet
or contemporary and anything in that stream,
but I think embracing the intersections
between that historical essence
and modern-day cultural influences
as we keep moving things forward
is so important to consider,
especially with what you were saying about it's not necessarily unique to dance
and there are so many other streams
that we can learn from as well.
Yep.
In Cree, there's a word, we would say (Cree phrase),
which means "right on."
(Cree phrase)
I love that.
I guess coming from the perspective of a non-Indigenous person
connecting to these issues,
just to look at it from another perspective,
what do you say to someone or an organization
who outwardly is not against the process of reconciliation
but maybe lacks that knowledge
or the connection to feel that true responsibility
and understand the importance of the role that they're playing in this?
The way I first considered, though, is that in Canada,
when I mentioned the 94 calls to action,
call to action 94 was intended
to update the oath of citizenship
to recognize Aboriginal treaty rights.
Just to give you a bit of background of terminologies,
Aboriginal and Indigenous
are predominantly interchangeable in Canada
because there is a branch of law called Aboriginal law
under Section 35.
If you want to research on your own time,
Indigenous peoples advocated
what was called the Constitutional Express in the 1980s
because the government of Canada
didn't want to recognize Aboriginal treaties.
They want to fulfill assimilation,
but through direct political action mobilization,
it went to Ottawa, to New York,
it went to London, England,
and then the government then reconsidered its position
to recognize and enshrine under Section 25/35,
which is where Aboriginal treaty rights.
Then how that ties in, though,
is that now Canadians today,
as we move forward to 94 calls to action,
have the oath of citizenship that recognized,
so there's a concept that I do promote:
It's a duty to learn.
It is your duty as a Canadian and your responsibility.
What happens for many,
they wait for change to come.
If you were dealing with institutions that are lapsing is that
if you look at some of the challenges, though,
there's an unfortunate date that occurred 2021
with the unmarked graves in Canada.
When that was established
and more recognized,
the ground-penetrating radar across Canada
reviewing sites of residential schools and the cemeteries.
Call to action number 80 was addressed
in two weeks of that,
from May 2021 to June 2021,
which was a national day for truth and reconciliation.
That was already called for 2015.
It took six years,
and then the stories of our ancestors
and the land speaking to us, like I mentioned earlier.
If you want to refer to Canadians
as a kind of markers to attribute
in your learning as a duty,
I have four criterias,
which is historical literacy.
Reason being, we still deal with denialism in our country.
You can give people the truth of the experiences and stories,
but because their internal resistance
to what they've been told
will be challenging what they've been presented with,
so historical literacy is where accountability is to say,
"These are the facts of what occurred, of history
and our experiences of our people."
The other aspect, though, I think,
if we talk about culture,
building bridges and learning from each other,
that's contextual understanding.
When you want to build your skill set,
historical literacy, contextual understanding,
but the last area I want to focus is the professional
because this could be for students, professionals,
but as a professional, though, and as a Canadian,
my path to reconciliation,
many others does not end between nine to five,
but for some, it does.
They think it's associated to the workplace,
but for us, we carry these stories home
and it's part of our day-to-day,
but for professionals, though,
is to promote culturally-informed and trauma-informed in their practices,
so those integrated things are tools and ways
that you can advance your own personal journey
in learning forward of what reconciliation means.
Yeah. It's so easy to be afraid of the vastness of the whole issue itself.
It's great what you're mentioning and excellent to keep in mind
and help everyone stay connected
and feeling unified
because this isn't a singular issue.
No.
Yeah, I think that's especially important
among, yes, the professionals, but also the students
because, for example, I've had people tell me,
"That happened a long time ago,"
but the history is still there within all of these people
whose ancestors lived through that,
so it's still...
The process of reconciliation still needs to happen today
even though it was in "the past" per se.
What I think is important to build upon your point, Sarah and Oya,
is that always humanize the conversation of reconciliation.
If you look at the impacts
about how Indigenous peoples have been negatively viewed,
there is a natural symptom of this,
which is they refer to as "dehumanization"
and "depersonalization."
The challenge that we have with denialism is you downplay,
you deny,
and then also to just downgrade,
which occurred.
If we look at these impacts, though, about dehumanization,
that's why you had some of these narratives
in Canada,
such as missing murdered Indigenous women in Canada
where there wasn't much traction happening
to address the changes
that are impacting Indigenous women across the country into spirit.
What that barrier is, though,
is that if you try to build bridges,
if you're dealing with racism and discrimination
and then also to just this disparity of not viewing each other as equals,
is that how do you reach hearts and minds?
One of the things, I think, is an important tool kit,
not just for professionals
but for you as young leaders,
I'm going to share with you a personal story
that occurred to me of us
when I spoke at a school,
and this is a grade-three student.
I was speaking, sharing about reconciliation
for just a teacher's event in Toronto at the East End.
I finished my talk.
Children sat there, and when I finished,
all the parents and teachers got up to thank me.
There was about 40-50 of these kids sitting there,
and I asked them, "Do you have anything to share?"
and they all raised their hands, "Me, me, me, me, me."
I asked this one child,
"Do you have anything to share?"
and this is what this child that stood up and said,
I'm going to quote-- I quote it every time.
He goes, "Michael, interesting presentation.
Very interesting."
I said, "Thank you. Do you have anything to share?"
This child said,
"I have one thing to ask you, Michael.
When our parents and teachers going to catch up to us?"
and was stern about it, sat down.
I asked third grade, and they went,
"I'm in grade three."
That never left me.
Reason being is that the parents were invested,
but the quality of care, it was a moment,
but for whatever reason,
these young students,
something reached their hearts
that made them all want the state to learn more.
When you look at yourself,
you are a bridge.
They call this the river of life
to think about our considerations
and to advance your skillships and all students
under NBS and the Ballet Forward, across this institution,
is that how do we honour our ancestors, our stories of the past?
We are doing our work here today,
but the ripple effect that we have an agency for
are those that are yet to come,
which are what you call your past, present and future generations,
and we are part of that thread,
so I'm doing my part.
My call to action for those that are listening
is that what are they going to be doing for their part?
Always be mindful that you create a ripple effect
for those that you meet day-to-day
and then also to those that you may have yet to meet,
so always honour your ancestors,
pay respects to who you see today
and be mindful of your steps
that you're leaving for the path forward to the next generations.
Yeah, that's an incredible story.
I think just that child's awareness
really is such a sign of progress in this area
that someone so young can have that awareness
of the steps that need to be taken
and where the gaps are, I guess.
Just to finish it off, I wanted to ask,
I know reconciliation is pretty much a never-ending process,
but what does success
in terms of reconciliation look like to you?
I like the remarks that Sarah said about maintenance,
and I'll answer that through treaties.
When I said the river of life,
there is a treaty phrase they say,
"As long as the sun [shines],
the grass grows and rivers flow,
these relationships will always be ongoing."
This is the agreement between Indigenous, non-Indigenous peoples.
They did something interesting in the past.
They used to exchange gifts every year,
and they had also in this area,
they held the silver covenant chain,
and they had [these] wampum belts,
these exchanges with the Haudenosaunee
where they would renew their commitments to each other.
I think for that,
with the treaties in Canada,
you have rights, obligations, responsibilities,
and those always teach you
what our rights and responsibilities are to each other,
so we have to find form.
I would say with regards to how I envision this
is toning down back to our core teachings
of land and people, people and environment,
all my relations,
and knowing what our rights, obligations and responsibilities are
to each other.
With that being said, though, I thank you both
and great success in your career and your studies.
Both Sarah and Oya, thank you very much.
In Cree, they say kinanâskomitin,
so thank you.
- (Oya) Thank you. - (Sarah) Thank you very much, Michael.
Thank you.
I hope that everyone was able to learn something
with this conversation,
and I hope that there is something
that everyone took with them from this
that they're able to share in their community
or that they're able to tell their fellow peers
or other people within their social groups.
Yeah.
Yeah. Thank you so much.
If you want to start with something easy,
you can follow our Instagram, @balletforward,
and keep up to date with any ongoing events,
but thank you so much, Michael.
- Thank you, Oya. - Thank you.
Thank you, everyone listening.
(Ojibwe language) Miigwech. Thank you.
(Ojibwe language) Miigwech.