Dan Siegel, M.D. - Discussing the science of mindfulness

My name is Dan Siegel.

My university is
UCLA and my specialty

is I'm a child, adolescent
and adult psychiatrist.

I'm at the Mindsight Institute,
which is not a part of UCLA.

So in terms of my affiliation,
that's really where I work.

I'm also a clinical
faculty member at UCLA.

And I run with Sue
Smalley the research

program called The
Mindful Awareness Research

Center at UCLA.

So that's just the formal stuff.

So the interest in
mindfulness at a university,

I think comes from the findings
inspired by mindfulness practice

and then researched by people
like Jon Kabat-Zinn and Richie

Davidson, that adults who focus
their attention in a mindful

way in a training period
of about eight weeks,

could actually change the
way their brain functioned.

That finding, along with
some amazing discoveries

in neuroscience, that
the brain continues

to change throughout
the lifespan,

not just in childhood,
really I think

got people very
interested in how

to use the mind to
change the structure

and function of the brain.

So that's for use in adults.

For children, we're very
interested in seeing

if education can develop parts
of the brain that develop early

on, called the prefrontal
areas, the part just

behind the forehead
that help give you

the capacity, for example,
to pause before you act

or to have empathy for others.

And at this point, education,
for the most part focusing

on reading, writing
and arithmetic

is not helping the prefrontal
cortex develop directly.

We need to add a
fourth R, what you

can call the fourth R of
reflection and reflective skills

allow a child to develop
these prefrontal abilities

and so that they can
really develop what

are called executive functions.

We've done a pilot study to
show that if you can teach

mindfulness to
teenagers and adults

with attention deficit
issues, you actually

can improve their attention
functioning even more than you

do with medications.

So this is the idea of
meditation, not medication.

But combined together we feel
that even medications plus mind

training that is mindful
awareness practices like yoga

or meditation,
would help develop

these prefrontal circuits
in the brain that

seem not to function too well
in attention deficit problems.

Other areas at
UCLA, other people

have been studying issues like
David Creswell has studied

mindful awareness traits and
has shown, in fact, that people

with mindful awareness traits
this capacity, for example,

to be non-judgmental,
to not be reactive,

to be very aware
of what's going on.

Those are some of the
traits, those individuals

can actually use their
brain in certain ways

differently to calm a very
reactive, lower emotional center

of the brain, whereas
people who are not mindful

don't have that skill.

And there's an example of using
naming where you name an emotion

to tame the internal world.

That's a very useful ability.

So if a child, for
example, is feeling angry,

if they've developed mindfulness
and they say I'm angry,

that can help calm
the whole state down.

But if they haven't had
mindfulness training,

it won't necessarily help them.

The pilot study that was
done showed that, in fact,

kids with more challenges
to their executive functions

got much more
improvement than kids

who didn't have difficulties.

Now, we need to do
a follow up study

to see what exactly that
means in a larger sample

and do more controlled examples
of kids who are like that,

not like that.

And what were the essential
components that helped.

But we did, in fact,
in this pilot study

with inner kids
with Susan Kaiser,

Greenland work show that the
kids with more challenging

situations got better.

It's not that surprising when
you think that you're really

trying to support the
development of a part

of the brain that,
if it's challenged,

will be eager to
develop, if you will.

And if that brain is already
pretty well developed,

well, there's not
much more to add.

One way of understanding
how mindfulness works,

is by looking into the
circuitry of the brain.

And so we all have
actually a handy model

of the brain, which
is actually our hand.

So if you take your
hand and fold your thumb

into the middle of your
palm and your fingers over,

this would be an
example of a brain

where the person's
eyes are here,

at the top of
their head is here,

their brain is connected
to the body itself

at the spinal cord, which is
represented in your wrist.

The way the brain is
composed, its architecture

helps us understand
how mindfulness works.

If you lift your fingers
up and lift your thumb up,

we go to the first part of
the brain in the skull, which

is here called the brain stem.

And this is where you have
the regulation of the body

and where you also have the
fight, flight, and freeze

response that are created.

This area of the brain
stem, a very primitive area,

works together
with the next area

that's on top of it,
called the limbic area.

And this is represented
by the thumb.

The limbic area helps
generate our emotions.

There are parts of it that
help us feel our feelings.

We also distinguish
different aspects of memory.

And in particular
this limbic area

responds to our relationships.

OK.

Now, this limbic area
and brainstem area,

they work together.

And because these are
below the next area

of the brain, the cortex,
we call them subcortical.

A lot of our impulses are
automatic behaviors are just

innate-learned
reactions to things.

Our instincts are driven
by these subcortical areas,

including information
that comes up

from the body itself,
your heart pounding,

your intestines
churning, feed up

to the limbic area
in the brainstem

and get you all revved up.

So that's a loop
that creates what

we call our emotional state.

The cortex developed
when we became mammals,

also as the limbic area did.

But the front part
of this cortex,

from your second to
last, knuckles down

to your fingernails,
the front part developed

when we became primates.

And this part where
your fingernails are

is called the prefrontal cortex,
because it's the front most

part of the frontal lobe.

This is the part that's
most developed in humans,

and it's this part that
gives us the ability to pause

before acting on an impulse.

And the way it works is there
are fibers that come down

from this middle prefrontal
area that actually calm down

the irritable limbic
area or brainstem area.

Literally, this
prefrontal region

regulates the lower
subcortical, limbic, brainstem

and even bodily areas.

So in many ways, what we
think happens is mindful

awareness practice
creates a state

of activation in that
moment that in a way

harnesses the power of this
prefrontal area in that moment.

As you repeatedly
practice something,

that state can become a trait
because neurons which are

firing together wire together.

So with the strengthening of
this prefrontal area, what

happens is, for example,
if a child is angry

and the brainstem is
activating a fight response,

the limbic area works with that
to develop a feeling of fear.

There's a sense of
betrayal by what happens.

So you're really angry,
you're burning up,

your heart is pounding,
and everything

is going to get you to fight,
to get a knife, to get a gun,

to hit someone, to do
something really violent.

But your prefrontal
cortex has you pause.

And the very parts of the
brain that allow you to pause

are also the same
part of the brain,

this middle prefrontal area
that allows you to have

insight into what's going on.

My heart's pounding.

I'm really angry.

Empathy for someone else.

Maybe that guy didn't
mean it, or maybe he's

doing the best he can.

And then even a
sense of morality.

So when we develop the
middle prefrontal areas,

we actually can not
only pause, but we

can think of the
larger social good

and enact a behavior
that's better for everyone.

And that's where
mindfulness really

alters things like bullying,
like violent acts of aggression.

And it's where mindfulness
can change the world.

Literally one person, one
relationship at a time.

It is possible
that if, let's say

I've practiced mindfulness
for a year or eight weeks

or whatever I've done,
that I've learned

a different way of actually
living in the world.

So you may not notice, but I
may be practicing mindfulness

right now.

So I'm not doing a formal
sitting and no one's teased

that apart yet.

If you've become a way
of living mindfully,

is that actually
something that keeps

on perpetuating the positive
benefits of mindfulness.

And I my gut
feeling is, in fact,

that that's true, that
even just giving kids

a limited exposure to
mindfulness and reminders

to do it, even if they
don't do a regular practice,

they'll have incorporated
that into their lives.

And they'll say things like,
I need to watch my breathing,

or I know there's
an alternative way,

or why can't I do
this mindfully?

Especially with children who
soak up things like a sponge,

you're giving them
this tool, I think,

can change the direction
of their development

for the rest of their lives.

We do work in
preschools because there

is evidence to suggest
that the ability

to have executive functions,
the regulation of attention,

gets fairly well-matured
at age seven.

That's pretty young.

So why not teach some kids tools
of strengthening their capacity

to focus attention long
before they're seven?

So that's why we've
gone into preschools.

As those circuits, those
prefrontal circuits mature,

you have the opportunity
to find the way

that even as kids get
older, after seven,

you can still help them improve.

After all, we've done a study
on adolescents and adults,

so the brain continues to
change throughout the lifespan.

The studies on mindfulness and
most have been done on adults.

And there you see
that adults can change

after an eight-week program.

So much so you can see shifts in
the brain where the brain gets

into what's called an approach
state rather than a withdrawal

state, a sign of resilience.

They can really stay with
things that are even difficult.

You can show that adults
have all sorts of capacities

to discern, or to tell what's
going on in their inner world,

when people who haven't had
the training can't do that.

So even an eight-week
training can

have interesting and important
effects on the brain of adults,

there's no reason to think
it wouldn't be useful

also for kids, even
after the age of seven,

when their executive
functions have

matured to a certain extent.

It helps kids become
kinder to themselves,

kinder to each other.

It helps them be more empathic.

It can help them have more
regulation of their emotions,

so they're more even keel.

It helps kids, even if
you see the CASEL work

and interpret that work
on social and emotional

intelligence, and interpret
that as a way of becoming more

internally focused on
oneself and others,

that work on the CASEL
Program shows that kids also

do better academically.

So if we extend
their important work

to the general notion
of being reflective

and think of that as
a form of mindfulness,

then you could say that
that specific kind of work,

the social and emotional
intelligence work,

promotes academic
excellence as well.

The CASEL work is the
Consortium for Academic, Social

and Emotional Learning.

It's a program based
out of Illinois

that has been studied
in intervention program

to teach kids to be aware
of their emotional state,

how to modulate
their internal state,

had to figure out
how to problem-solve,

how to be aware of
other people's emotions,

and how to help communicate with
those emotions more effectively.

Those are the five basic things
essentially, that CASEL does.

They've studied their
intervention program

about 200 schools.

They don't use the
word mindfulness,

but their techniques
are very much, I think,

a fundamental way that
kids look internally,

what you might call
internal education

or what I call the fourth R,
basically reflective skills.

These ways of knowing the
internal world and how

to change it, allow
you to have mindsight

to see and change the mind.

And these are basically what we
learn when we learn mindfulness.

Some people don't take
to certain techniques

and they take to others.

For example, some
people don't really

like focusing on
their breath and they

prefer a movement like yoga.

Some people like
something that's

more dynamic, like Tai Chi.

So when people don't
respond, it doesn't

mean mindfulness
isn't good for them.

It may mean that particular
mindful awareness practice just

didn't suit their physiology or
their temperament or whatever.

So I think we can say
that mindfulness could

be helpful to Everyone,
It's just which way

are they going to learn it?

So that's for the
generality of it.

In terms of the
consistency of the results,

mindfulness needs to be taught
by people who are themselves

practicing mindfulness.

I think that's what a lot
of experts are suggesting.

And some of the
research in the work

on applying it, let's say
for people who are depressed

and preventing depression,
has shown that you really

need to have the actual
clinician practicing

mindfulness.

So it would be an
interesting study

to do that, I think is being
carried out now by the Garrison

Institute to see the difference
between mindfulness teaching

from a mindfulness teacher
versus teaching mindfulness

techniques, to a teacher who's
never learned mindfulness,

and whether that makes a
difference for the students.

The question of taking time in
a busy school day to teach kids

reflective skills,
mindfulness skills,

the ability to look at the inner
world, all these being names

for the same experience.

Those skills actually can
help kids academically.

So while it may take
a little bit of time,

it actually can
increase the efficiency

at which kids learn and can
improve their social skills,

their social relationships,
their emotional skills,

their ability to
be in relationship

with their own
inner world, so on.

So in all those ways,
while it takes clock time,

it actually is worth
every second of that.

In a way what mindfulness
education does

is it trains the
prefrontal cortex that

helps keep the whole
system in balance

and helps you have
empathic relationships,

so that we're actually
teaching something

that isn't taught in any
other part of the curriculum.

You can almost argue
that mindfulness

ought to be the first
basic skill that's taught,

so that all the rest
follows after that.

Regarding the question
of negative effects,

one of the things that being
mindful and being taught

mindfulness skills does,
is get kids in touch

with their inner world.

So one of the programs
that I consult to

has found that kids become more
aware of their inner memories

and emotions.

So schools have to be prepared
that if a child is being

mistreated at home, if a child
had frightening experiences,

they may get more in
touch with the memories

and feelings of
those experiences

and bring them up in classrooms.

And teachers may feel, as
one teacher said to me,

that a Pandora's
box was opened up.

My feeling about it is that as
a community of caring adults,

we need to provide children who
spend so many hours in schools

with an opportunity
to know themselves.

And in the short run, there
may be things teachers

have to do to get
support for that child,

bring the family in, be helpful
in whatever ways they can.

In the medium run
and long run, it's

all good because if
a child has something

going on inside of herself
that she's never talked about,

it's better that she
talk about it then,

rather than 10 years
later, when she'll

use up huge amounts of personal
resources, social resources,

and create unbelievable
pain in the next generation

if she isn't given the
opportunity to work on that.

So in the big picture,
mindfulness can help,

even if it brings up
emotions that a child feels

they're not ready to deal with.

If all schools took
mindfulness on as a basic skill

to teach all children,
there's a potential for there

to be a huge shift in how
the next generation brings

their minds, their hearts,
their whole relational abilities

to be connected with each
other into the world.

And so this isn't just
about stress reduction,

or certainly not just about
relaxation, which mindfulness

is not.

Mindfulness is really
a lifelong skill

that can change the
individual's life for the better

relationships that child has in
his or her life, for the better.

And in that way, one
relationship at a time

improved the world.

I've heard stories of kids who
come home from school having

learned a mindful awareness
practice like meditation

or yoga, who when their
parents are getting

in a tense moment
of friction, will

ask the parents to do a focusing
on their breath or stretch.

And I think children can
be our best teachers.

They can teach us
not only by example,

but literally teaching us the
skills that they're learning.

And my experience as
a child psychiatrist

has been that when
kids in my practice

are learning mindfulness
skills, the parents quickly

come in to learn them
themselves because they

see the changes that
happen in the children.

And I'm thrilled that this can
be a family event because just

like family meetings,
you can have

family discussions about the
internal world sharing family

time, mindfulness is an
opportunity to actually get

closer with each other.

We're just beginning
to do studies

on mindfulness
interventions with kids,

so we don't have the
long-term studies yet.

But I can tell you in my own
practice of teaching mindfulness

to my patients that what
they tell me about, which

is so rewarding
to hear about, is

that when these
kids have learned

to know their own
internal world,

to be able to be present
with their own emotions,

to learn mindfulness
techniques so they can actually

bring stability and
clarity to their own mind,

the course of their
life is different.

This is for kids who maybe
are a little anxious,

or kids who have
mood issues that

are going wild in their lives.

The stability and
clarity of being

able to stay present
and let emotions

arise and fall
without being swept up

by them, changes everything.

If we take these positive
outcomes, and this

is from experiencing children up
close and personal for sometimes

years at a time, and seeing
how it changed their lives.

And we see how,
in fact, this may

be helpful to kids in general
to learn these skills,

then a child who
may not know how

to understand
their own emotions,

may not have kindness
toward themselves,

may not know how to read
other people's feelings.

This changes the whole
course of their life,

because you're giving them
a life skill that helps them

move deeply into inner knowing.

And an inner clarity
that we can see

is an invitation for
meaning and connection,

both with oneself and
with other people.

That gift of mindfulness is
a gift that keeps on giving,

because that child will be
able to have relationships

with others in their
childhood and adolescence.

By preparing them before
the teenage years,

they're going to have a skill
that will continue with them.

And then when they go on
to have their own children,

you'll see an outcome
of secure attachment

that itself may promote these
aspects of a mindful life.