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www.youtube.com/.../watch?v=LWhMjZgIoTw

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    [David] Those are usually protectors.
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    Yeah.
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    [Laura] Oh, yeah, yeah.
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    Mahakala.
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    Right.
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    Yeah.
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    Wow.
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    Yeah.
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    So, the story about his name,
    about Ujjain, Ujjain Khyap
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    is interesting.
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    And this is the part that I don't
    know can be public or not.
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    So you would have to ask somebody.
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    I guess it was when Tukula was about 10 months
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    that Rinpoche told us
    he was a tulku.
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    And, this is the part that you have to ask permission if you're going to
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    make it public.
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    So he was about 10 months old
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    and Rinpoche told Tsering, he said: Your son is a tulku.
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    And then he wanted to collect some information from us.
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    One of the things he wanted to know was if we had any dreams.
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    And so I told him: Yeah, I had one really vivid dream that I remember
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    clearly.
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    I said that I was the Queen Mother.
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    And I was somewhere like in Buckingham Palace.
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    And my son was the Prince of Wales.
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    and then Tsering said, his dream was that his
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    son was born.
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    And he was huge.
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    He was like this huge baby.
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    You know, he was like a baby, but he was like this, like, and there might have
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    been some other details.
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    But, he said it, and it had something to do with the Buddha, like
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    the baby was maybe looked like the Buddha or something.
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    And so Rinpoche thought those dreams were significant.
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    And then, he just asked us for some family information and stuff.
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    Then he told us who Tukla was.
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    And he said that Tukla was a reincarnation of XXX Riku Kusho Rinpoche in Minyak.
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    Riku Kusho was a student of Dagchen Rinpoche.
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    He was the one that requested the Lamdre when Dachen Rinpoche went to East
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    Tibet,
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    but he was an old man at that time.
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    I can't remember if Dezhung Rinpoche
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    was his student or the other way around, but he had a connection with Dezhung
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    Rinpoche as well.
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    While Dagchen Rinpoche was giving the Lamdre, in Minyak,
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    Riku Kusho had 12 monasteries.
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    So he had requested it for all of his monks.
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    He himself, I think, was ill or knew he was on the way out or
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    something.
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    So he was in retreat.
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    I heard from Avikrita Rinpoche when he was talking about
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    Rinpoche's biography that one of the miracle things at that time was that
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    Rinpoche was in the middle of giving the Lamdre, and then he just stopped
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    and he said: Uh-oh, the old Lama has passed.
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    And sure enough, Riku Kusho had passed away in that moment.
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    It took him a while, but he managed to get back here in 2010.
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    I think that was 1956 or '57.
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    Then Rinpoche tasked Dagmola with contacting people in Minyak and,
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    figuring out how this is all going to go down
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    and Damala started talking to people, and everybody was like: Oh, but he's
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    already been recognized by the XXX Dromo Kodron, you know, by His
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    Holiness, Sakya Tritzen.
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    And then, people in Rinpoche's family were like: Oh, we can't do this,
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    Rinpoche, there's too many politics.
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    But Rinpoche, at first, he was
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    gonna do it. He was like: Well, we can get around it, because,
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    tulkus have five emanations, and, and your tulkus is the
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    activity emanation and this other tulku was the whatever emanation.
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    [David] Did he use the word 'whatever'?
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    No, no, I just, please don't quote me when I'm saying what Rinpoche said.
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    That was the gist of the conversation, I just can't remember what he said.
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    [David] He said something similar about Khamarpa, way back when they had like the
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    super, like the two sides were extremely polarized.
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    He said the same thing, he said it right in front of everyone and
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    everyone just had to shut up and the funny thing is that
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    they all work out.
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    I mean, the two Karmapa, right. That's the thing that I
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    found is so cool about Rinpoche, like, way back,
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    He saw things way ahead of everyone, and everyone was kind of, I'm sorry to
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    say that, like, a lot of people are just like stupid, you know, or whatever,
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    you know, and he just pointed out directly, and it was like,
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    way, way ahead of everyone, and you see now the two Karmapa there, they
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    reconcile, so to speak, they, they, you know, they kind of get along, and, you
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    know, there's no more, well, at least, at least officially or formally, there's
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    no more, there's no more, like, the rivalry, or what is, what real ones to
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    fake, theoretically, but still, I tell the truth, is a lot of the supporters of
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    both sides of Karmapa, they're still think otherwise, they're still, like, stubborn,
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    [Laura] but, yeah, yeah, because there's so much at stake, and they think there's only
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    one way forward, there can only be, only one Lama can oversee this empire,
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    right, you know, right, yeah, right,[David] but anyway, get back to the story, sorry,
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    [Laura] So getting back to the story, so the thing that also complicated, made it
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    political, is that the Rinpoche that was recognized by His Holiness, Sakya
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    Trichin Rinpoche, disrobed, so, and Rikku Kusho himself, I heard
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    he didn't leave clear instructions about his rebirth, some of the accounts say
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    that he would come back, and others said that he wouldn't come back, and
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    so, there were two other tulkus at this
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    monastery, Rikku Kusho was the head tulku, and then there were two other
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    tulkus, and they were sticking with the story that he was not going to come
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    back, but there was an account that said that that he would come back after
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    they had built a three times life-size statue of Guru Rinpoche, and when we
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    went to visit in 2013, we went to Rikku Monastery, and they were, they had just
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    finished building a three times life-size statue of Guru Rinpoche, and so, the
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    people at the monastery themselves were like, okay, this is it, this is the
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    real deal, this is him, and they took him, they took him for Rikku Kusho, and
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    he was just a baby, not a baby, he was like maybe two and a half years old,
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    three years old, no, he's three years old, and you know, one of the ways that I
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    knew that he was comfortable, or that he was okay with, that he was in a
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    comfortable, that he was in a familiar environment, was that they had invited
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    us into the Tara Shrine, and they served us lunch there and they
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    served us pork, which is very common in Minyak.
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    Pork?
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    Yeah, you see, like free-range pigs there, it's
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    hilarious, yeah, they eat a lot of pork there, and anyway, Tugla loved it.
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    There were people crowded all around, because word got out, and so, you
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    know, people are just flocking to the monastery, and they're all like peering
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    their heads in the door, and everything, and Tulkula was so calm, and he was just
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    sitting there on my lap, and I was feeding him pork with chopsticks, and he was
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    so chill, and he was eating it, and this is the other really unusual thing,
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    because up until that point, my kids were not eating anything, they were like,
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    they were not having it, you know, like Tulkula, I think the only thing he ate
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    was tsampa, and Sonam, the only thing she ate was rice. I had been
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    so distressed that they weren't eating anything, and so, here we arrive at Riku
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    Monastery, they serve us pork and rice and vegetables, and stuff,
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    and Tulkula just gobbles it up. So, again, it's not a
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    very, like, sexy story, but for me, as his mother, I was like, wow, this is
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    significant, he's totally comfortable with these people, and this place, and
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    even though there were so many of them, and they were all gawking at him, and
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    he was just totally cool, and then, and then what they did was they, they went
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    and got a retreat Lama out of his retreat, and I think he was the only one left
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    who knew Riku Kusho personally, and he had been in retreat for, like, the
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    latter half of his life, and he came out of retreat to see Tulkula, and I have a
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    diary somewhere where I wrote down the notes about that interaction, yeah, and
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    then everywhere we went when we were in Tibet, there were,
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    auspicious signs, there were rainbows,
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    I have all the signs written down, there was hailstorms. On the
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    day before we were supposed to go, there was this hailstorm, it was really, I
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    don't know, it was kind of like the local deities were saying, don't go, don't
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    go, and there were auspicious clouds, oh, and the one I like the best is when
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    we went to Khajur Monastery, and we had to go over this 13,000 foot pass to get
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    there, it was a very isolated monastery, but it was just so magical, and on the
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    way there, we saw all these groundhogs, groundhogs just started popping their
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    heads out of the ground, and Tsering's brother, who was driving us, said, you
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    know, well, I didn't, we couldn't really communicate other than with sign
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    language, because I didn't know Tibetan, they didn't know English, so, but all
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    of a sudden, I noticed everybody was getting really excited, and so I asked
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    them what was going on, and they were like, oh, the groundhogs are coming out,
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    the groundhogs are coming out, this is a really good sign.
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    Yeah, so, yeah, so that was our trip to Tibet, and we only went to the village
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    where Tsering's family was, because at that time, we knew that he was Riku
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    Kusho, but we also knew that couldn't keep that title, so we had to be, we
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    couldn't make it public, they couldn't, there couldn't be a public welcoming or
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    anything like that, and then, so, so after all of the debate and, you know,
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    political, you know, turmoil and everything, Rinpoche just finally said, you
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    know, because his family was giving him a hard time, so he finally, he was just
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    like, you know what, we don't need these politics, and so he called it off with
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    Riku Kusho recognition, and then he, again, he sent Damala to work looking
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    around for other lamas that may have been born about the same time, and so
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    Damala got in touch with, is it Beya Rinpoche?
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    Beya Rinpoche.
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    How do you say it?
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    Beya.
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    Beya?
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    B-E-Y-A, maybe.
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    Beya.
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    Okay.
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    Peya Rinpoche.
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    Anyway, you know who I'm talking about, right?
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    {David] Peya Tulku Rinpoche, yeah.
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    I know of him, I kind of met him from afar, but never, like, have a personal
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    interaction.
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    Laura] So Damala talked to him and told him what was going on, and she
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    said, you know, Rinpoche wants to know were there any other
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    monasteries that are looking for their Tuku in the Minyak area?
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    He said, yeah, the Draya Den Gompa, their
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    Tuku passed away, and they had gone to Rinpoche to ask for the recognition
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    several years earlier, and Rinpoche had told them exactly how to find him.
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    He was like, here's the name of the parents, here's the village, here's what to
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    look for, here's where to go, here's the birth date, and the year, and the
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    elements, and he told them everything, and they found the kid, but then they
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    said that there was an obstacle.
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    So, I'm not quite sure what that means, but I think maybe the child died.
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    So, they never did get their tulku, and then Rinpoche was like, oh,
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    he was like, okay, this makes sense, and so he did a mo, and I'm sure he
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    meditated, and had dreams, and stuff, whatever, you know, whatever, however he
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    does his magic. Tulkula already had his
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    his Lama name.
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    Rinpoche had already given him his name.
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    So, his Lama name is Nawang Jigme Wangdu Tsering.
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    [David] So, that's, wait, so that's a Lama name.
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    Wow.
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    Okay.
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    [Laura] So, when he was around two is when Rinpoche gave him the Lama name, and
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    officially recognized him.
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    Wait, did that come after this?
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    Maybe that, sorry, I can't quite remember the sequence of events, but anyway,
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    he said because, when he did the mo, he said because, you know, Rikku Kusho's
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    name contained the name Jigme, and because Norbu Chense's name contained the
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    word Jigme, he said somehow that made it legit.
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    So, so then he, he pronounced Tulkula the reincarnation of Chense Norbu, or
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    sorry, I can't, I can't remember if it's Norbu Chense or Chense Norbu, but of
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    Draya Den Monastery in Minyak.
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    So, when we were in Tibet in 2013, after all of this had already happened, the,
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    I guess, Draya Den was just too far away, and we didn't know
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    anybody there, and so we never got to, to that monastery.
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    So, he's never been to that monastery, but that's who he is.
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    [David] Wow, wow, yeah, that's very interesting.
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    Yeah, I think, I think that's a very good story.
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    Yeah, I'm sure I can, we can edit it so that it is appropriate, so to speak.
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    I'm gonna have a, yeah, yeah, but this is great, this is great, this is great.
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    Yeah, so, I mean, I'm curious right now, actually, so Tulkula for Ujintulku, which
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    monastery is associated with, like the Draya Den, or the... So have you guys
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    met with the Draya Den people?
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    [Laura] No, I don't even know the name of anybody there.
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    [David] Oh, even now?
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    [Laura] Because they keep me out of the loop. All the Tibetan men who
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    are in charge of Tulkula's education, I, they, they,
Title:
www.youtube.com/.../watch?v=LWhMjZgIoTw
Video Language:
English
Duration:
20:25

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