Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: How Vaccines Got Politicized and the Medical Industry Lost All Credibility

As of 2025-04-07_1314, this transcript is complete through Subcaption 700.
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Tucker: So thank you for coming.

Okay, here's my question to you.

You were one of the people who were right about COVID and certainly more right than the US public health authorities and the global public health authorities.

And I'm just going to summarize in two sentences what I think your position was.

So you're a physician in private practice in Texas.

And you're vaccinated, by the way?

Dr. Bowden: No.

Tucker: You were not.

Oh, you're not vaccinated.

Dr. Bowden: No. I almost did.

Tucker: God bless you.

Dr. Bowden: [Laughs]

But at first, you, like, have no real reason to think that this is all completely backward.

But then you treat COVID patients, thousands, I think, and you start to realize that the therapies that the US government is recommending are not working, that the vaccines are not working as advertised at all.

You start saying something about it, and offering alternatives to it, which are badly needed in the middle of this moment, and you're attacked – really attacked.

Your livelihood, your professional credentials are attacked.

And then time passes – now four years – and it becomes really clear that once again, you were more right than the US public health authorities.

I think that's just demonstrable.

I think the science proves that.

So here's my question after a long preamble.

Have you been rewarded for it?

Has the AMA given you the Physician of the Year award?

No, I'm serious.

Has anybody said, "We were wrong in attacking you, and you deserve credit for your foresight and bravery?"

[Music]

Dr. Bowden: No.

I mean, I'm still fighting to keep my license.

I mean, I still have the Texas Medical Board coming after me for something that happened.

Tucker: Right now, you're fighting?

Dr. Bowden: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.

I have a hearing coming up end of April.

And I was trying to save somebody's life.

It was a sheriff's deputy.

It's a man that had served for

29 years trying to protect and save the public.

Father of six.

And he contracted COVID.

And this was in the fall of 2021.

And that was the third and the largest surge of the pandemic.

That's when, yeah – This was following the rollout of the COVID shots. following the roll out of COVID shots, and they clearly weren't working.

And this man, he got sick.

He tried to get ivermectin.

He couldn't find a doctor willing to prescribe it.

He ended up in the hospital, and he went downhill like so many people did.

And his wife – The hospital was talking hospice.

They were giving up.

They said, we tried everything.

How old was this man?

Dr. Bowden: He was late fifties, early sixties.

Tucker: Not elderly.

Dr. Bowden: No.

Yeah, he was a big guy, but he had no comorbidities.

He had no other medical problems.

And so, we saw this, though, with so many people.

If you didn't get early treatment, the second week of illness, people would start really getting bad.

This massive inflammatory response would kick in.

It almost always happened on day eight.

It was very weird.

It was very predictable.

And the primary care doctors just shut their doors to these people.

They said, "Oh, this is just a virus.

We'll let it run its course, and then

go to the emergency room if you

can't breathe."

So that, that happened to –

Tucker: Can I ask you a question?

Why would primary care physicians, whose duty it is to treat patients – and they must have known by this point that day eight is the critical day – why would they not treat these people?

Dr. Bowden: Because there's a dogma that we are taught in medical school and in our training that you don't treat a virus, that you let a virus run its course. Because there's this big fear about antibiotic resistance.

So they don't want people overprescribing antibiotics.

And so the assumption – If somebody comes to you with an upper-respiratory-tract infection in the first three, four days, five days, and they don't test positive for strep, you basically say, "Oh, you've got a virus, and we'll just wait and see what happens." Well, I mean, that was just

catastrophic.

I mean that was really –

learned so much.

I mean, I had that mindset prior

to the pandemic,

but it just didn't sit well with

me when people were coming in and

really struggling, to just do

nothing. And so initially I

tried hydroxychloroquine.

But as soon as President Trump came

out and said how great it was, the

Texas State Board of Pharmacy, they

literally shut it down, like they

prohibited doctors from prescribing

hydroxychloroquine.

So I put it on the back burner and

I just did my best.

I did breathing treatments,

steroids, I did

antibiotics for secondary infection.

But initially, I didn't really have

a lot of demand for people

coming in, needing treatment.

I was doing a lot of testing

and that

sort of got me recognized

in town because I had a saliva

test that didn't

require a swab up the nose, and

I was able to get the results back

very quickly.

You might remember initially LabCorp

was the only lab in the country that

had the test, and they became

inundated, and it was taking two

weeks to get test results back.

So we had a saliva test and

people could just – we could just

give a cup and they sit in

their car and spit in it.

And then we'd have the results back

the next day.

So that's sort of – that's where it

all started.

And then monoclonal antibodies

came about, and those

works great.

I mean, I could get as many doses as

I wanted. I'd get them the

next day and just contact the

manufacturer, say I need 200

doses to be at my bed doorstep.

Great. They worked wonderfully.

People turned around very quickly.

But what happened

is – and this is during that big

surge when Jason Jones,

a sheriff's deputy, got sick,

couldn't get monoclonal antibodies,

couldn't Ivermectin.

Tucker: When in 2001 was that, do

you remember?

Dr. Bowden: So the summer of 2021 –

well, so we'll start in the spring

of 2021.

So this is following the rollout of

the COVID shots.

The government is upset because

people are not buying it.

People are not getting – there's very

low uptake, very low interest.

There's suspicion of these shots.

So in March, they

started their PR campaign, the

government.

They went after ivermectin.

The FDA put something on their

website about, you

can't use ivermectin for COVID.

That Biden doled

out $11.5 billion

to groups around the country.

Initially, it started with 275, it

went up to 17,000 –

influencers, church groups,

sports leagues, all sorts of people,

just funneling out taxpayer money.

to go after doctors like myself

that were spreading "misinformation,"

and to push

people to get these COVID

shots. So that happened in

the spring.

And that's how –

Hospital, and that's where I

had privileges, they were the

first hospital in the country to

mandate the shots.

And this was April 1st, 2021.

And this was the exact day

that Biden announced COVID-19

Community Core, that billion –

multi-billion-dollar propaganda

effort.

I think it was very purposeful.

I think the mandates started in

Houston for a reason.

I knew, I think that they knew if

they could get away with the

mandates in Texas, they could get

way with them anywhere.

Tucker: Where was your governor in this?

Dr. Bowden: He was, you know, he,

he –

You had a Republican

governor?

Dr. Bowden: Yeah. He was he was a little slow

to act.

I mean, he he was on board

with Methodist.

In fact, I have the CEO of

Methodist, Dr. Mark Boone, on

camera saying that Governor Abbott

wanted them to get a shot in

every arm.

That's according to the CEO

of Methodist.

But, you know, he did

come through eventually.

But this is early

on.

started having all these

breakthrough cases.

And I was seeing it because I was

testing people.

So I started to track people by

their vaccination status.

And I saw that the vaccinated

outnumbered the unvaccinated,

and they were just as sick, if not

sicker.

So I brought this to the attention of

Houston Methodist.

Tucker: Were these your patients you're

talking about?

Dr. Bowden: Mm-hmm. People that were coming to my office

to get tested.

Tucker: Why wasn't every doctor doing this?

Well, we can get to that because,

I mean, I'm independent, so it

allowed me to do things that other

doctors can't do.

But I was actually collaborating

with Methodists. I was sharing my

data with them because I had so

many – I mean, basically, I was just – all

I saw was COVID for a few years.

And we were trying to get the data

published, so we had a good

relationship.

said, "Hey, are you seeing what I'm

seeing? Like all these breakthrough

cases.

the same time I had all these people

coming to me very distraught about

the mandates. And, you

know, because we were ahead

of the time, right? This was before

the rest of the country was

mandating the shots. But in Houston,

if you – a lot of people at Houston

Methodist, they employ about 30,000

people –

very distraught over these mandates. And

then I see

that they're not working. At that

time, I wasn't seeing the injuries,

and at that time, I was just very

vocal against the mandates.

So, in August,

late August of 2021,

FDA put out the infamous horse

tweet.

And that's the attractive

health care worker nuzzling the

horse and says, "Seriously,

y'all, you're not a horse, you're a

cow, stop it."

Tweet went viral.

Joe Rogan got smeared

for taking ivermectin.

And then right after that, Biden

mandated the shots, and they took

away monoclonal antibodies.

So it was all very orchestrated.

Tucker: But monoclonal antibodies,

I mean, I've never heard anybody say that

they weren't helpful.

Dr. Bowden: Right. But if you have monoclonal

antibodies available as

an option, people are going to do

that rather than get the shot.

So that's why, in my opinion,

that's they took away the monoclonal

antibodies.

Tucker: Which were working?

Dr. Bowden: They worked great.

I mean, it was –

Tucker: So is this like the most evil thing

that's ever happened in the United

States?

Dr. Bowden: Yeah, in my opinion, definitely.

Tucker: I'm sorry to keep interjecting.

It's just – even though I lived this,

it's just so stunning to hear it

recounted as crisply as you are

recounting it.

So okay, so they

take away monoclonal antibodies,

they mandate the shot,

you're sharing your data with the

hospital at which you have

privileges. What are they saying?

Dr. Bowden: So their response was one sentence,

and it

said, "Well, we think the shots

are there to lessen the

severity.

Well, interestingly enough, they've

never shared their data,

their hospital data. And being the

first in the country to mandate the

shots, you know they're sitting on

an enormous amount of data.

And if the shots had been

effective in preventing

transmission or lowering the

severity, then they

should have shared that.

They would have shared that. They would

have been screaming that

from the rooftops, if it fits

their agenda. But they've been very

quiet about that.

So, yeah, I had,

all these patients

coming to me very distraught.

I had one patient come to me

and tell me that her

urologist at Houston Methodist

called her and said,

"You're gonna need to find a new

urologist if you don't get the

COVID shots."

She had a history of bladder cancer,

so she was very upset. And she was

calling me to try to find a new

doctor.

Tucker: The urologist said, "I won't treat

you?"

Dr. Bowden: Well, he said that the department

was talking, having discussions

about not treating patients

that were unvaccinated.

He didn't say definitely.

Tucker: The Texas Health Department?

Dr. Bowden: No, this is at Houston Methodist

Hospital.

Tucker: So, the Department of Urology.

Dr. Bowden: Yes. That's what he told this patient.

Then –

Tucker: Doesn't he have a moral obligation

to treat his patients?

Dr. Bowden: Yeah, well, we saw all sorts of

moral [chuckles] issues

during the pandemic. I mean, yeah –

Dr. Bowden: I mean, yeah, crimes.

So, yeah, that happened.

And then on the exact same day,

I got a notice from a surgery

center where I operate

that I'd have to get the COVID shot

to continue operating.

And then, on the same day I got

notice from this

hospital where I was trying to help

the sheriff's deputy.

They had a court order to give me

emergency temporary privileges so

that I could give him ivermectin.

The wife sued,

and she – it was a last-ditch

effort, let a dying man try

ivermectin before –

Tucker: The sheriff's deputy, father of six.

Dr. Bowden: Yes. I testified.

She asked me to testify.

I testified, Senator Bob Hall

testified.

We won, and the court was ordered

to give me emergency temporary

privileges.

And then I was to either

myself personally give the

ivermectin to them, or have a

nurse do it, because they

thought it was too dangerous for one

of their own members to do it.

Tucker: To treat a patient.

Dr. Bowden: Yeah – with Ivermectin, which is insane.

Anyway, I got a notice that

they were going to deny my

privileges, even though I've

never been sued for malpractice –

spotless record.

They made me get letters

of recommendation.

They made submit my surgical

case logs.

They just fought tooth and nail to

make the whole process

as difficult as they could.

And the lawyers ended up having to

go back to the judge and fight with

them over just giving me

privileges.

Whereas at that time, there was

a shortage.

They needed doctors to work in the

hospitals.

And if I, under other circumstances,

if I had just shown up and said,

"Hey, I want to help out in the ICU,

they would have granted me

privileges the same day.

There wouldn't have been any kind of demands for

letters or recommendation or

surgery. Anyway.

So they –

Tucker: Can I just ask, were you pretty

confident this man was going to die

without treatment?

Dr. Bowden: No. So, this is interesting.

So, the lawyers that

were doing this case, Ralph

Lorrego and Beth Parlato,

they did 189 cases around

the country.

Similar situation.

The spouse is suing the hospital

to try to get their loved one

Ivermectin in this last-ditch

effort to save their lives.

Half of those people, they won the

case. And in the cases where

they won, all but

three patients died.

In the cases where they lost,

all the patients died.

I mean, it's really amazing.

And apparently, the judges, their

political party, matched the outcome

of the trial.

So, the Republican judges were

the ones that ruled in favor of the

plaintiff,

and then the Democrat judges were

the ones that ruled against the

plaintiff.

Tucker: You're making my heart beat fast

hearing this.

So what happened in this specific

case?

Dr. Bowden: So, we – there was

a lot of back and forth.

It was very confusing,

it was happening very quickly,

and his life

is on the line.

And they –

basically, the lawyers told

me, "You have the green light. We're

going to go ahead. We can go.

It's all good. Everything's cleared."

So, I send the nurse to the hospital,

and she's greeted by the police

and the hospital administrator and

turned away.

And he never is allowed to

get the Ivermectin.

They appealed and managed to get

a stay on the order.

And then on appeal,

they lost.

So the wife,

luckily, she was able to go into the

hospital every day, which was

unusual.

Most spouses didn't get to do that,

but that was one good thing.

And this was at Texas Hughley

Hospital in Fort Worth.

So she applied

ivermectin to him topically

every day without the hospital

knowing.

The hospital tied up his feeding

tube because they didn't want her

sneaking anything in.

They put towels and rubber bands

around it so that nothing could be

snuck in.

Tucker: These people are evil.

Dr. Bowden: Yeah. I mean, they fought tooth

and nail to keep him from just

trying a very safe medication,

which I believe should be over the

counter. And

then they turned me into the medical

board over it, and I'm still

fighting those charges.

The patient, he did survive,

but he spent six months in

the hospital. He lost half of his

body weight.

He never was able to make a full

recovery, and then, unfortunately, he did

pass away.

Tucker: That's very upsetting to hear that.

That's a very upsetting.

And so the charges against you –

Boy, I thought I was done being

upset by COVID. [Laughs]

You just brought me back.

It's such a stain on this country.

Dr. Bowden: It's a stain on the medical

profession.

Tucker: And just that people didn't storm

the hospitals.

Your father, your husband,

your children dying alone?

Tucker: You should have shown up with guns

and said, "Get out of my way! This is my

loved one and I'm going to be with

him when he dies."

Dr. Bowden: Exactly.

Tucker: And so I –

people should have done that, and I

hope they will next time.

Tucker: So

your crime

is recommending a therapy for

COVID.

am I missing something?

Dr. Bowden: Well, the technicality is

that I didn't have hospital

privileges when I sent the

nurse to the hospital.

But because this was a legal

dispute –

Dr. Bowden: She never got in. And I

was following the guidance of the

lawyers.

Tucker: So your nurse made it to the

threshold of a hospital, therefore

you should lose your medical

license?

Dr. Bowden: [Laughs]

Dr. Bowden: Well, I don't think they're trying

to – I think they just want to fine

me –

Dr. Bowden: Yeah, mark my record and –

I could have settled a

long time ago.

called an informal settlement

conference. It's behind closed

doors. There's no witnesses

or – You

don't really get to interact much.

And they offered to make it go away

if I paid them $5,000 and

took eight hours of CME and

retook the -

Tucker: What does CME mean?

Dr. Bowden: Continuing medical education.

And then [laughs]

retaking the jurisprudence exam.

So, all doctors in Texas have to

take a medical legal exam,

which I've already taken and passed,

but they wanted me to take it again.

And I just said, "No, I'm not

caving to this."

And unfortunately, the latest – so

it's been three and a half years,

there have been multiple continuances.

They haven't been able to find an

expert witness to testify against

me.

The first one got

sick with cancer.

The second one just, I think,

just chickened out.

I don't know.

And then the third one, the third

witness, it turns out

that the entire time – and he

was the former medical director

of the Texas Medical Board – the

entire time, the last 12 years, he's

been working for Planned Parenthood.

So we found that out with –

Tucker: Wait. What?

Dr. Bowden: [Laughs] Yeah.

Tucker: Wait. I'm so sorry.

Now I'm tuning in with greater

intensity. What is his job,

his day job when he's not –

Dr. Bowden: He's a lab director for Planned

Parenthood.

Tucker: What is a lab director at Planned

Parenthood?

Dr. Bowden: I don't know.

Tucker: Sell fetal fetal tissue to vaccine

companies?

Dr. Bowden: Yeah, probably.

Tucker: Yeah. And he's on

the medical board?

Dr. Bowden: He was the medical director

of the medical board.

Tucker: And he works at Planned Parenthood?

Dr. Bowden: Exactly, yeah.

Tucker: This is not Vermont.

This is Texas.

Dr. Bowden: Exactly.

No, I mean, Texas is not what people

think.

Tucker: No, I've figured that out.

But man, I didn't expect to be left

speechless in the first

10 minutes. [Laughs]

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So, do you think, like, take

yourself out of this?

This is just like a med school

classmate is going through what

you're going through. Do you see

any?

Other side to the argument,

any potentially legitimate

justification for hounding you for

four years.

You know, the medical board's job is

to protect the public from dangerous

doctors.

I mean, it's

true though. I mean you get a

monthly bulletin and you're,

you know.

Like the ones who give your kids

amphetamines for ADHD?

Well, yeah.

The ones who hook your wife on

benzodiazepines because she has

panic attacks, those doctors?

Right, right.

Well, no, I mean, not those doctors,

different doctors.

Okay.

I mean, we get a monthly email

just blasting all the crimes

that doctors have done, and it's

pretty bad. I mean it's, you know,

sex offenders.

Oh, I'm not surprised even a little

bit. A lot of, you now,

so that's their role.

I don't think I'm dangerous.

I was trying to save a life.

I stepped on the toes of a hospital.

That was my crime,

a multi-billion dollar hospital,

Advent hospital.

And you know that's what happened

with Methodists. I stepped on their

toes and they just weren't going to

have that.

So at any point during this, can you

go to the, I mean, these are

obviously huge corporations, but

they're institutions whose

goal is to save lives, improve

lives, bring health to

the population.

Could you ever just like call the

CEO of the hospital and the

medical director of the hospital and

say, this is really crazy.

Like, I'm not profiting from this.

Ivermectin, there's no profit margin

in it, right?

I just think this therapy works.

I've seen it and I'm going to try

and help and why don't you back off?

Yeah.

I mean, at the time that this

was going down, it was a legal

battle. I felt like, well, I really

can't, I just have to,

yeah, I can't step outside what

the lawyers are telling me to

do.

How much money do these hospitals

take from the Biden administration,

do you know?

I don't know for sure, but I

know that Houston Methodist Hospital

has $13 billion in

assets. That was actually a couple

of years ago. It's probably more

now.

in assets so thirteen billion

assets and and

they have you know locations all

over he said and they

don't pay property taxes are

non-profit uh...

They don't pay property taxes?

They don't pay any property taxes.

I do think we should get rid of

non-profit status, period.

Yes. I don't understand.

I've met almost no non-profit

that I think is good.

that needs to be reformed.

We could probably close the deficit

just by having these people

pay the taxes that the rest of us

pay.

Wow, that's just so shocking.

Was there any hospital in Houston

where you live, I think, that

was willing to be reasonable or

was not taking orders?

Yes, there was.

Good. Yes. So, there is a Dr.

Joe Varone, who is a

pulmonologist, critical care doctor.

He's now the head of Independent

Medical Alliance.

He and I, I would have,

it was crazy, we'd have patients

calling us all over the country

saying, help, get me out of this

hospital, and he

would accept transfers from all over

the country. So people would be, you

know, life flighted from

ICU and.

in Maine and taken

down to Houston.

And he would care for them.

And this hospital, UMMC,

allowed him to use

ivermectin.

And we were, so there was a whole

protocol that was,

it's called the Math Plus Protocol,

and started by FLCCC,

which now is Independent Medical

Alliance.

It was high dose steroids,

it was high-dose ivermectin,

it was high dos vitamin C,

it was breathing treatments, it was

all these very basic, you know,

not dangerous things that

weren't being done.

He saved a lot of lives.

He worked crazy.

I mean, I think he worked over two

and a half years straight without

even a break.

But I was fortunate to have him

as an ally and somebody

What a man, good for him.

So you're clearly a data person.

Do we have the

final outcome?

How did those patients do versus

patients who were intubated in

some Biden-controlled hospital?

Well, if you look at, there's a

great website that compiles all the

ivermectin data just by itself,

and we have 105 studies

showing the efficacy of iverMectin,

and it

varied depending on the actual

patient, as it should, and

you wouldn't always just use iver

Mectin.

So in my more severe patients,

I would use a combination of

ieverMectine, hydroxychloroquine,

azithromycin.

During that second week, I would do

higher dose steroids if necessary,

I will do breathing treatments.

So it's hard to isolate saying,

okay, well, it's just ivermectin.

But when you look on this

compilation of studies, I mean, even

in the late stages, and you were

asking me about this earlier, even

in late stages they showed that

iverMectin could decrease mortality

by 40%.

It's most effective

if you actually take it as

prevention.

So people taking it twice a week

do the best.

uh... and then the people that are

start day one or two or three

and they're the next best

uh... by

So we I mean that's established we

know that

Well, it depends on who you

ask, but yes, there's plenty of data

supporting that.

So why isn't that

like the official CDC protocol

for COVID?

Well, you know, it would help myself

and other doctors, I mean, I'm

not the only doctor going through

this with a medical board, but if

they could make it a countermeasure,

then it's protected under the PREP

Act. And then it makes all

these issues that we're having with

medical boards essentially go away.

Is there anybody who has

counter data, numbers showing the

opposite, that people taking

ivermectin like

die more?

Well, I wouldn't say

that. They'd say it doesn't work or

it's not. But the studies that

are all establishment,

you know, in the big journals,

they didn't give the ivermectin

soon enough, or they gave too low

of a dose, or

the study was sponsored by

somebody that has financial interest

in seeing it not work.

So there are studies countering

that.

But If you

look at, there's just an abundance

of data showing it works and

it's super safe.

So I was a little bit nervous before

I started using it because

of all the media

that's only for horses and

that sort of thing.

So I dug into it and I

did what.

Does it help horses?

I know we kept hearing it was a

horse dewormer. Is it effective?

Is it effective?

Yes, I mean, for their

parasite issues.

But so I looked at the study where

Mark submitted to the FDA, it's on

their website, anybody can find it,

and you get toxicity data.

And there's something called the

LD50, which stands for lethal

dose 50.

It's a benchmark number that

is used to gage how toxic a

medication is. So the higher the

number, the lower the toxicity.

And in COVID, we were using

higher doses of ivermectin than what

you use to treat a parasite.

So I wanted to make sure these

higher doses were okay.

Well, if you look at the LD50

of ipermectins,

it's anywhere from 11 to 82

times what we're

giving for COVID.

So we are far under that

threshold.

And then I did a literature search

and I tried to find accidental

intentional overdoses from

iverMectin and I couldn't find

anything. and I checked recently

and there was one study.

Showing some issues and it was a

little bit muddy like was this

really ivermectin, but if you look

at Tylenol I mean, there's thousands

of papers showing toxicity

from Tylenols.

So it is

I know someone who has advanced

liver disease from it.

Really?

Wow.

Yeah, well, that's the thing, as you

know, thousands of people die every

year.

Right.

So, um, propofol used every

day in hospitals. I mean, you screw

that up by a tiny bit, you're dead.

Right.

Yeah. Yeah, I haven't seen it, but

sure.

Killed Michael Jackson.

Yep. Well, that was...

Right, but I'm just saying, like...

Awesome.

Hospitals work with incredibly

dangerous drugs every day.

Right, right. I'm sure you do.

Yeah, yeah.

What are the side effects of it?

It's, I tell people I have a harder

time with antibiotics in terms of

side effects. Like if I'm gonna get

a call back in

my office, it's usually about an

antibiotic problem, not ivermectin.

But you can get some GI

issues, diarrhea, and then you

can blurry vision, but the blurry

vision goes away when you stop

taking it.

And it's not like, oh, I can't read.

It's more like, ah, something's a

little off.

Not, you know.

That's it?

That's It.

So I guess what you're saying,

without saying it, is that there's

really no compelling medical reason

to call the cops if your nurse shows

up with ivermectin.

Exactly.

So that's like purely political,

right? How did your business get

your profession?

Get so politicized.

Yeah, it's awful, I mean-

Did you know that before all of

this?

No, and I remember,

Methodist came after me very vocally

and I had

a press conference outside

my office as a,

I'm not putting up

with this, and said politics

has no business in healthcare.

And at the time, I really believed

it. I was not political at all

prior to this.

Really? I shied away from, I

didn't really like it and

I thought it was too divisive.

and

You're in, here I am.

No, I think that's such a wonderful

and very American,

you have children, and that's

like a sweet kind of,

that's how you should feel.

Yeah. That's how should feel, I

married someone who feels that way.

I don't like people arguing, like

that's great, you know, we have

important things to do.

Right. Yeah, no, I'm not making fun

of you at all. I love that.

But now I feel like there's

no other choice, right?

You just have to, you have to get

involved, so.

Um, so you were not politically

aware at all before this started and

were you aware that your business,

that medicine was so politicized?

Had you noticed it at all?

No, it's interesting that I went

and looked at the data for Texas

because Texas has been infiltrated

by people from all over the country.

I'm aware.

33 percent.

It's going to be California style.

Yeah, it is.

And you look at

health care professionals, what they

donated like to political parties.

And 10 years ago, they primarily

donated to Republicans,

and now they primarily donate

to Democrats.

The whole profession has shifted.

I have a theory for why, but you're

the doctor, so you tell me what you

think the cause of that is.

Well, I think

medicine in general, I mean, the

corporate practice, it's become the

corporate practice in medicine.

It's become centralized.

It's, you know, only 1% of doctors

are not employed, I'm one of those,

but.

Not employed.

Like, so 77%

of doctors are employed by a

hospital, 20%

are employed by private equity

or an insurance company,

and 2% are employed by

the government.

And only 1% are like myself.

So your choices,

like your corporate douche

overlords,

private equity or insurance

companies, if it's like a joke,

or the government.

Right. Right.

And you're in the 1% that has

your own business.

Maybe that's the answer right there.

Well, I think it is.

I mean, we have to,

doctors need to regain their power.

They've lost all their power and

They have no power.

They have NO power. They're just like little

worker bees getting ordered around.

I designed, so when

I got out of residency, I worked in

a traditional practice.

What are you doing?

Can you tell us doing what?

just ear, nose, and throat and sleep

medicine.

And it was small, but it

was easy.

But I was always bothered by the

stranglehold that the insurance

companies had over my ability

to treat my patients.

So like one easy example is

in your nose and throat doctor, we

do an endoscopic exam of the nose.

It takes about extra 10 minutes, not

really a big deal.

Doesn't sound that fun though for

the patient.

It's really not bad.

You numb it up first with spray.

There's no shots.

But if I did that

and I marked the code on

this sheet, on the receipt, the

patient might get some gigantic

bill, like $400 for doing this

little simple procedure,

which as an ENT is pretty essential.

It's part of our, you know,

makes us different from the primary

care doctor. We're able to look in

there.

So it would always stress me out in

the back of my mind, like, I'm going

to do this, and is the patient going

to get some big bill?

Right? I hated it.

So when I, you know, I took time off

because I had four boys and five

years, and I

just

For boys

Yes, and

Ciao!

What's that like?

It was it was chaotic.

Yes, and I wasn't sure I was gonna

go but I Started

off. I'm just gonna take a year off

and that led to seven years off I

wasn' sure I wasn even to go back to

medicine, but as they got older

Yeah, I just kept nagging at

me. So I decided to go but I

said I was going to do it on my own

terms. So, I call myself third-party

free I don't contract with

insurance companies I don' contract

with hospitals and I don''t contract

with the government and the only

people I work for are my patients

and and it was

So they just like give you a credit

card when they come in, that's it.

Yes, and they can file a receipt.

They can file claim to their

insurance company.

And yeah, it's very transparent.

Everybody knows how much everything

costs. And it's actually,

yeah, there's so many people that

have very high deductible insurance

now. They're basically cash patients

unless something catastrophic

happens.

And if you go to a traditional

doctor's practice,

half the time they don't even know

what to charge you for a cash

patient because they're just so

entrenched with the insurance

industry.

But there is a growing movement of

doctors like myself, and I'm a

specialist, so it's a little

unusual, but there's something

called direct primary care.

And direct primary is like

affordable concierge care.

So you're paying cash, but the

cost is typical, like a gym

membership.

So it's not super high.

You get a lot more access to your

doctor. You got a lot time.

probably more quality.

They're not always like-minded

in terms of COVID.

And to me, that's a litmus test for

your doctor.

But it's a better way of

doing it. You get much more

access, higher quality care, more

time.

And you save your insurance for the

catastrophic care.

That's what we do for our cars.

And use your In

HSA, so Health Savings Account,

if you can get one of those and the

government could expand those and

make those more available for

people, because right now it's sort

of limited based on your employer,

but if you pay out of pocket

for your basics, then

you are likely to have a better

experience.

I think it's in, but it also

frees the doctor to think

independently and to

think on behalf of patients.

Why didn't you get the COVID shot?

I, in my mind,

I thought, okay,

this thing, I don't think it's gonna

work, but I didn't think I was gonna

hurt people.

I just thought, I just don't it's

going to work.

Why? Why did you think that?

because I trusted, I trusted.

Yeah, I really had never given the

FDA, CDC, HHS a

thought. I really hadn't, they

weren't on my radar.

I just sort of assumed that

everything was fine.

Well, but because you assumed that,

it's interesting that you didn't

think the shot would work.

Right. Well, it's just because of

the speed. I thought, well, how are

they going to get this together so

quickly that it's going to work?

I also, I looked at the study and

I looked at how they conducted the

study, and I didn't like how they

did that.

So, the people, the

test subjects were not routinely

tested. They were just tested if the

doctor felt like they needed to be

tested, which seemed a little

too muddy to me.

So I had a hesitation on

that regard too.

And then I showed up, but I

had this looming deadline because I

had privileges at Houston Methodist

and you had to sign an attestation.

And the attestations said that you

either got the shot or you intended

to get the shot.

So I just woke up on a Saturday

morning. I'm like, I'll just

do it. Let's just get it over with.

I went to a grocery store

and I stood in line.

Where everybody should get their

medical care, right?

Go to the grocery store!

I stood in line, and the line

was long, and I got

impatient. And I was like, I'm gonna

leave, I'll come back another time.

And I never came back.

Thank you. Why?

Why didn't I go back?

Yeah, I mean, that's just, it's a

big deal. You've got privileges at

this hospital.

You treat patients, but this is part

of your business. You're getting

paid and you're

a doctor. So you kind of have to get

the shot. Like we're all on board.

Everyone's doing this.

And they really were mad at doctors

who didn't take it because that's,

and nurses, because that such

a statement.

I mean, here's how I justified it in

my mind.

I never stepped foot in that

hospital. I had privileges there

just as an emergency

situation.

So it wasn't like, okay, let's say I

got COVID because I didn't get the

shot and then I'm going around the

hospital infecting everybody.

I wasn't in the hospital.

I also knew that early treatment

worked.

So I knew that

this shot was not necessary

because I was seen at first.

I know, but there's so much pressure

on everybody, particularly on

physicians at that point to do it.

If you don't do it, it's a big

hassle. You knew that it was gonna

be a hassle.

And so just like,

I don't know, the tide is moving

really briskly in one direction and

you decide to swim against it.

That's more than just like a casual

decision. That's a serious decision.

And I'm just trying to get to the

heart of why you made it.

Cause you're clearly a thoughtful

person.

It doesn't like do random, you're a

doctor.

You don't just do random things one

day. It's like, what was it?

Was it instinct?

I think it was more, yeah, instinct,

and everything was so busy

during that time. I mean, I couldn't

think straight. I mean we were, it

was just slammed.

And I just remember thinking, oh,

I'm just going to get this over with

and just knock this off my list.

And then when it didn't happen, I

thought, well, this is, this is a

sign, you know,

I, I I'm not going back

to it may

just be instinct.

or providence.

Providence.

Okay, so I mean that

decision changed your life, of

course, because it puts you on the

other side from

everyone else.

How did your patients do?

Everybody, so I used to give out my

cell phone to everybody, especially

the sick ones.

Everybody that got early treatment

survived.

I even had some really, really

sick people come in in

the second, third week.

So second, Third week is when

inflammatory cascades

set in and people get really sick.

I had a man come in with oxygen

saturation in the 60s

and he was not a healthy guy.

He'd had a history of a heart

attack, he had a story of throat

cancer.

He was a veteran and

he basically said, I'm not going to

the hospital. Cause normally if

somebody walked to my office like

that, I'd call the ambulance and

say, hey, but I had to

allow him to potentially die in my

office, which was very scary.

But, and I had a handful of people

like this. He wasn't the only one.

So he sounds like he's on the brink.

Yeah, no, he was bad.

But, you know, I had nurses that

could do IVs.

So we gave him high-dose steroids

in the IV.

We gave him antibiotics, breathing

treatments, high- dose IV vitamin C.

We give him high dose ivermectin.

And we brought him in every day as

an outpatient, because I didn't have

a hospital bed in my office.

And he survived.

And I had a lot like that.

So it was very gratifying.

I learned a lot.

I mean, it was, I learned just

because somebody's oxygen saturation

is low, they don't need to be

immediately put on a ventilator,

which is the dogma

that we came into the pandemic with.

But I think that dogma has changed,

or at least I'm not in medicine, of

course, but for normal people,

there is the sense that like stay

away from ventilators.

I think, that's a fair.

I- yeah, I mean I can see why

doctors did it initially.

I get it yeah

Because, you know, if somebody's

struggling to breathe, that's a

really scary, distressful

feeling for a patient when you

can't get enough oxygen, it's

horrible.

So I can understand, but I guess

what I don't understand is why

they didn't do more to keep

them off the ventilator.

It's bizarre to me.

I mean, they gave them steroids, but

they gave very small doses of

steroids.

I mean why didn't they just throw

the kitchen sink at these people?

Um, and they just got stuck

in these protocols.

uh... and just basically

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So you said you didn't want to go to

the hospital. I live in an obviously

tiny world like we all do, but

I don't know anybody.

who, in my world, who

wants to go to the hospital.

I know a lot of people who have

resolved I'm never going to the

hospitals.

And they really, you know, I've seen

it. Very sick people, I'm not going.

What do you think of that attitude?

Yeah, I was I realized I've been in

the hospital seven times and I

know well childbirth as of

As a physician?

Oh, well childbirth, yeah. As a

patient, as a patient.

one of them, I was really sick.

I mean, I had pneumonia and sepsis,

and I'm very grateful to the people

who helped me.

And this is from the flu.

And I had gotten a flu shot, by the

way.

But now, like you said,

I mean everybody is terrified to

go to the hospital. I mean, the

hospital used to be the place you

go. Pete Slauson Of course.

Jennifer McLaughlin The safe place. That's

where you go, you're going to save

my life.

And now, people are terrified

to the hospital.

And so, you know, our current

administration needs If

they don't do anything, that's a

big problem because the

trust has just been destroyed.

Do you see that with your patient?

Oh, yeah, that's the most common

question I get is, where should I

go if I need to go to the hospital?

And I don't have a great answer for

them.

You know, your best bet is just keep

yourself healthy.

I mean, the biggest thing people

can do is keep themselves

healthy.

Manage your diet, manage your

stress, get enough sleep, exercise,

get enough sun, and

just stay out of the hospital.

But keeping your weight under

control is probably number one.

Is it really?

Because you gain weight,

you're more susceptible to

infection, you are more susceptible

to heart disease, you more

susceptible cancer, and those

are the big three.

And you have to buy new clothes,

which is unacceptable.

Yep.

You don't want to buy any clothes.

Right, well, but, you know, if

you lose weight, you have to put,

I've, so I did carnivore for six

months and I

had to buy a whole new wardrobe.

I'm speaking as a man, you can't buy

new clothes. You can't?

No. Why? Not a lot, it's against the

rules.

Oh, oh.

I can't find your clothes.

That's what keeps me in line.

Just, sorry.

Really good, but it worked that

well.

I weigh now what I weighed in high

school. I never thought I'd get to

that point. I did it for six months

and it's

not for everybody, but I will say

it's a lot safer than Ozempic

and Mon Giorno.

And it's very simple.

I mean, you basically eliminate all

carbohydrates from your diet and you

just eat meat and.

and you snack on bacon.

I mean, it's crazy.

And you're like shedding pounds.

It's boring, but it's simple.

You don't count calories.

You don' get hungry.

I mean you do go through the sugar

withdrawal. Sugar's very addictive.

You think?

What do you think of fasting?

Yeah, I tried the intermittent

fasting.

It did not work for me.

I've heard that for women, it's

not as effective.

I worry that it slows down

metabolism, but I have never tried

it, and I know people swear by it.

So you don't have a good answer on

the hospital question, I notice.

Oh, how to fix

that.

No, like, what do you do if you get

sick? Like, your answer was

don't get sick.

Well, if you have to go to the

hospital, be prepared.

Have somebody with you.

There is a patient bill of rights.

You have rights in the hospital.

Make sure you know those rights.

I haven't noticed them.

Yeah, they don't advertise

them.

Why do doctors patronize patients?

Oh, yeah, so that that's a bit in

its inf-

What is that?

Treating them like children?

Well, when I started

20, 23 years ago,

patients didn't have a lot of access

to information, not like they have

now.

So, we were in charge.

We were definitely in charge,

because we had the information, and

patients really, unless they had

textbooks, they didn't it, because

it wasn't, we didn't have online

information.

And now, I mean,

patients are well informed.

And so every conversation I

have with a patient.

I know that they have been

researching and they have a lot of

information at their disposal,

and I think a lot doctors don't like

that.

I embrace it because,

I mean, I learn from my patients,

and if a patient finds something, I

will dig into it, because I don't

have time to dig into all of

everything, right? And you see weird

things, and I like it,

but I think that doctors

don' t like that, it's

it's a power thing and

I mean, it can be frustrating on the

flip side. If you feel like you

really know what's going on and

you're challenged by something,

somebody's read on the internet,

that can be fascinating.

But it's, yeah, the doctors

just don't, it's

a power thing and an ego thing

mostly.

That was my suspicion.

So what did you end up thinking

of the shot, the

COVID shot?

It's horrible. It needs to be pulled

off the market.

It should have been pulled off the

market a long time ago.

I looked at my patients

in the two years following the

rollout of the COVID shots, and 7%

of my new patients were coming to

see me for severe injuries.

I've never seen anything like it

with any other product on the

market." If this were an antibiotic

and you were seeing all these side

effects, it would have been yanked

off a long time ago." Normally,

the FDA will put a black box warning

on a if there have been five

deaths.

they will pull it off the market if

there have been 50.

Well, according to VAERS,

which VAERS is Vaccine Adverse

Event Reporting System,

and it's vastly under-reported,

which I have seen firsthand because-

But it's been in place for 50 years

or something. I mean, it's

longitudinal, so we can see the

response to all these different

medications, right?

Dr. Bowden: According to VAERS, there have been

38,000 deaths from these

COVID shots.

So under normal circumstances,

the FDA would have pulled it.

Instead, they've doubled down.

They've put the shots on the

childhood vaccine schedule.

All babies are expected to get three

COVID shots by the time they're nine

months old.

The shots are still under EUA

status for this age group.

So under 12, they're not even fully

approved by the FDA, and yet they're

on the vaccine schedule And

according to the CDC, 9 million

American children have gotten the

latest version of these COVID shots.

Tucker: Actually? Yes, yes.

Still? Yes, 9,000,000.

12%. The concern

I have with these kids.

So we know Meier-Karna.

Tucker: This is going on right now?

Yes

I think we voted against this.

I don't know.

You're very diplomatic.

But I'm just stunned to learn that

that's happening right now.

Could this be shut down?

it should have been shut down a long

time ago.

And, you know, what's the...

Nine million babies have had

COVID shots?

Yeah, well, children, minors.

Tucker: Is it compulsory?

Dr. Bowden: It's still compulsory in some

states, yes, in some businesses,

not in Texas.

So, Texas actually passed a law

outlawing mandates

for COVID shots, but

I actually reached out to people on

Twitter yesterday and

they said, all these people said,

yeah, it's still requiring shots for

jobs or a nursing

program or

even transplants.

Tucker: So we're gonna let you die unless

you get this shot.

How could we fix

that?

Well, the shots need to be pulled

off the market immediately.

Who could do that?

could do that.

The FDA.

So, Marty McCarey,

he could do that.

And then we need accountability.

I mean, we need, we can't

sweep this under the rug because

we will never restore that trust.

And that's the key thing is if

nothing happens, it's just a

festering wound and

the trust will never come

back.

Are there any indications that this

is coming soon?

i mean i'm not privy to

conversations in the government

I think you'd probably follow this

as closely as anybody.

There's so much going on, so I'm

gonna just plead ignorance on that

basis. There's like a lot,

multiple wars and the economy

and there's just a lot to distract

you from this question, but I think

it's a really important question,

but you are focused on it.

Have you seen any sign

at all that these

products, which according to the

self-reporting system VAERS, have

killed 38,000 people that they're

gonna be pulled off the market?

Dr. Bowden: I have not.

I mean, it seems to me that HHS,

their focus now has shifted,

or I don't know, their focus is

on food

and food quality and

improving that.

And I haven't heard a word

about COVID or the COVID shots. Tucker: Really?

Not, I mean, and maybe I've missed

something, but that's,

I'm just reading what you're

reading.

I mean I don't.

Food is like smoking and

I love bad food and I love smoking.

I don't smoke anymore but I

loved it and I'll just say

that and I hate me for it but it's

just true. That's why people do it

because they love it.

And I love pizza.

I Don't think I ever smoked a

cigarette. I think I've ever eaten a

slice of pizza without knowing it

was bad for me.

Yeah exactly it's common sense.

It is common sense I mean I do think

like we shouldn't allow

food stamps or SNAP to be used for

Coca-Cola. Okay obviously.

There are changes you can make for

sure, but like, you

know when you're eating garbage,

that's why we call it garbage.

I'm 55, they called it that in 1975.

They'd be like, ooh, you're junk

food.

You know what junk food is.

It's the delicious stuff.

So like, I'm not, I mean,

I think it's important. I do think

eating right is

important and I try.

Not gonna eat any freaking

vegetables though, but whatever.

But like.

The COVID stuff seems, the

shot seems like an

imminent threat.

Dr. Bowden: Yes. And my concern,

giving it to babies, because

myocarditis...

I think that you're positive that's

actually happening.

Babies are getting this.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah, definitely.

You can find it on the CD.

I trust you.

I trust you it's freaking me out, I

didn't know that.

Yeah, that's why we can't let this

just go away.

Babies, so myocarditis.

We know there's an increased risk

of myocariditis in teenage boys

who take these shots.

We don't know what that risk is

for nonverbal babies

because the symptom is

chest pain.

So a baby, the baby could

be getting myocartitis and we have

no idea.

Myocardias can leave a scar on

the heart.

And then years later,

the heart is permanently –

Right, you're playing lacrosse and

you drop.

And that's my big concern.

These babies could be getting

myocarditis, and we have no idea.

Do you believe that

those shots are responsible for

permanent immune system damage?

I think, well, what I have been

looking at is spike protein antibody

levels.

So when you get a vaccine,

you can, traditionally we call

them titers.

So like people who

get hepatitis B vaccine, you

can look at the titers, the antibody

levels, and see if you have

protection.

We do that in the hospital a

lot.

So they wanna make sure if you work

in the hospital, if you get stuck by

a needle, you're not gonna get

hepatite B.

So I started looking at these spike

protein antibody levels and it's

alarming because the people, I can

tell immediately if somebody had the

shot.

And in the vaccinated, these

antibody levels are, I did an

average last night,

13,000.

And the unvaccinated average is a

thousand. So there's huge

discrepancy.

And this is years after the shot?

Yeah, years after.

And these people, most of these

people have gotten two, maybe three.

Nobody's gotten more than that.

And none of these people have been

sick recently with COVID.

So it's very alarming to me.

It suggests, I mean, we don't know,

but it suggests that spike

protein is still active

and still replicating possibly

in the body.

I mean the mRNA in these shots

is not mRNA.

It's a synthetic mRNA

and it was, it was made

to avoid degradation,

so it's made to stay

in the body. That was the purpose of

it, of modifying it.

So when I see these levels like

this, it really concerns

me that we have an issue with

this ongoing spike protein in the

body.

Tucker: What are the consequences of that,

do you think?

Well, I think cancer is a big

concern.

I think immune dysfunction.

How would that affect cancer?

Tucker: Well, the spike protein is

oncogenic.

Your Shunxing talked

about that.

So viruses can be oncogenic,

it appears that the spike protein,

the mRNA shots have SV40

in it, which is an oncogenic

virus.

There's something called frame

shifting. So,

when the mRNA is

in production, is integrating...

that it can produce new proteins

just by little mistakes that

happen. So these new proteins,

we don't know what they are, but

they can cause autoimmune disease

and possibly cancer

as well.

There's just a lot unknowns.

I mean, we need a test to

detect spike protein.

All we have now is antibody test.

we really need a lot more,

we need an antidote.

We need, I mean, I am struggling

because I have all these injured

people and I usually start with

ivermectin and ivermectin helps,

it binds to spike protein and it's

anti-inflammatory.

But we're really limited and we need

a solution.

So we need the NIH to really

dig into this and help

these injured patients because

they're very challenging

and we're sort of just

experimenting because we don't know.

And they're not helping?

I would say, I mean, I get,

you know, I've tried a lot of things

and the thing that works the best is

ivermectin.

But it's slow going,

it's, you, I usually put people on

for a long period of time before

saying, okay, this is not going to

work.

And it's just hard because

we, you now, there's just not,

we need the NIH to step

up and help us. Tucker:

Time for another True Life Alp

story. I got a call from a friend of

mine yesterday, honestly, true

story, who said his girlfriend had

just broken up with him over Alp.

He wouldn't stop.

And I thought to myself, that's kind

of sad. And he said, no, it's not

sad.

Imagine if I'd married her.

Now I know.

I was saved.

Then the next day, this same friend

is driving at twice the speed limit

through a major American city,

pulled over by a cop in a speed

trap. Cop takes his license

registration, goes back to the

patrol car, runs him, comes back,

looks in the window and sees a tin

of Alp on the dashboard.

Pauses, stunned, says to

my friend, you use Alp?

Yeah, I do, says my friend.

So do I, says the cop, we all do.

He looks at my friend thoughtfully

and goes, drive safely, sir, and

hands back his license and

registration. No ticket.

So in two days, he's saved from a

tragic marriage to a girl who

doesn't like Alp and a speeding

ticket. All true.

It's more than a name.

In a nation of 350 million people

are guessing there are about 350

million Alp stories.

Email us yours.

We want to know and read it on the

air. Email tellall at

AlpPouch.com.

Tellall at alppouch.

com. Give us your Alp story.

So one of the primary platforms

we use for distribution is YouTube,

which in general has been great,

actually, if I'm being honest, a lot

less censorship than I

got in any television job I ever

had. So we're really grateful

to YouTube. I never thought I'd say

that.

But the one area where we get

censored by YouTube is when we talk

about the COVID shot,

which I think is really interesting.

So this will probably be censored on

YouTube. But I just wanna ask

you, but you're a physician.

clinical physician, you're treating

people, thousands

of people.

And so I feel like I have to ask you

this, tell us about the injuries you

are seeing.

So, I don't get the

sudden, you know,

collapse myocarditis,

stroke sort of situation because I'm

outpatient.

The Soccer Players.

Right, I see the,

yeah, it varies,

but I've seen some very strange

rashes that don't go away

with steroids and antihistamines

and have actually...

or kind of like rashes.

Like bumpy, red, splotchy.

I mean, I had this poor kid, 15

years old, it was all over his face,

all over this body, and he responded

so well to ivermectin.

That was a great case.

Tucker: So, are you sure that was

Vax-related?

Yeah, it came on right.

I mean, he had no prior history.

He's 15.

It came on right after the COVID

shots.

I see POTS.

So POTs is when

the blood pressure drops

suddenly or goes up

real high suddenly for no clear

trigger and your pulse may

be erratic as well.

That's been a big thing with the

COVID patients. That's very

difficult to fix.

I've seen a lot of neurological.

Can I ask what does POTS stand for?

postural orthostatic

syncope.

I don't understand a single word of

that. I probably shouldn't have

asked you, but like, what are its

effects?

So you feel faint,

so you may just be standing there

and your blood pressure drops,

or your pulse goes

up way high and you feel like you're

having a panic attack, that sort of

thing.

So it's symptomatic changes in your

blood pressure that occur without

any kind of trigger.

What? I mean, that sounds like it

could be dangerous.

Yeah, yeah.

It's very hard to treat.

So I see a lot of that.

I've seen neurological tremors.

Oh, come on.

Oh yeah, yeah, no, no.

Tremors?

I've saw a patient a little bit

older than me, CEO of

a company, he came in and he

gave me his business card and he

said, Hi, I'm this so-and-so,

and he's, and then he gave me his

other card and go, and this is the

biggest mistake I've ever made in my

life. He gave me his vaccine card.

Very difficult to, I mean,

we've gotten a little bit of

improvement, but just, you

know, in a lot of fatigue.

Hand Tremors?

Whole body, his whole body.

No way.

Yeah.

Even when he sleeps?

It's got to affect every part of

your life. A lot of these patients

say they feel a lot of burning,

like pins and needles, when they

sleep,

which is typical with neuropathy.

That sounds like a life destroyer.

No, yeah.

It's bad.

And they don't just, it's not like

giving them an antibiotic and a week

later, they're better.

These are chronic conditions.

And the government's not helping.

So, you know, Brianne Dressen

of React 19.

I don't know if she, so React 19 is

an organization started to help the

injured with the COVID shots.

The head of that organization was

involved in the AstraZeneca trial.

So she was a, she volunteered

to be a guinea pig and she got

injured.

Government just came out and said

they're not going to help her.

They're not gonna give her any kind

of financial reimbursement.

No, maybe a week or two ago

I don't understand, like we didn't

vote for this at all. Dr. Bowden: Right.

I mean, the government was,

in her case, she was part of the

clinical trials, you said.

But everybody else,

not including me and you,

took it because we were

subject to the biggest propaganda

campaign in American history.

So we were forced by the government

to take it.

By the way, why aren't the companies

paying these people?

Dr. Bowden: Companies have no

liability risk with these

products.

And the PREP Act even further

protects them.

When was the PrEP Act passed?

It is not, it

does not expire until 2029.

And so under the prep act, they're

even more shielded.

anything that happened, anything

that's designated as a

countermeasure is protected.

So anything that happens in the

hospitals, anything happens from

these shots, it's

all protected from liability.

There is one really

monumental lawsuit

going on that could change that.

Brooke Jackson is a whistleblower

for Pfizer,

and she was involved in

the research. So she was at the

clinical trial sites, she was the

manager, and she would have seen all

sorts of issues with the way they

were conducting the trial.

And she brought that to

the company's attention, she brought

to the FDA's attention and she

fired.

So she has been in this

gigantic legal battle against

Pfizer for a long

time now. I think we're going on

four years.

And unfortunately, and this was

during Biden, the DOJ stepped

in and

basically said, no, you can't

sue Pfizer.

It's crazy. Tucker: You can't Sue Pfizer?

Of course!

You can't sue Pfizer!

The DOJ stuck up for

Pfizer, which is not usually how

that works

I'm surprised he didn't arrest her

for complaining.

Exactly.

This has got to be making you pretty

radical.

It doesn't seem very radical to me.

Seems like common sense.

You don't seem like a radical

person, but this makes me feel

radical.

So neurological symptoms, and

you're pretty convinced those are

also from.

You look at, okay, what was their

past history?

Do they have any issues?

Were they otherwise healthy?

And then when did these things start

happening?

And the timeline, and then

the other thing is they typically go

to other doctors

and they get the million dollar

workup and they can't find anything

to explain it. And the doctors are

baffled.

They put them on psychiatric

medications.

Not really.

Oh yeah, I saw one patient on

a sleeping pill, a benzodiazepine,

and an antidepressant.

SSRI

Why do we have so many mass shooters

in this country? I don't know.

It's baffling.

That's shocking.

So they used to, I mean, in

just American culture, they used

make fun of 19th century medical

cures for hysteria.

You know, it was always like, you

know, the Victorian medical

cusers, and one would have a

problem, they'd be like, here's a

giant vibrator, or, do you know

what I mean? Like, literally they

made that.

Like, it's all in your head, honey,

calm down.

And that was like a trope.

And, and I was hardly

a feminist, but I was kind of

sympathetic to that.

Like don't, don't just like dismiss

people. You know what I mean?

Tell them they're hysterical.

But that's, that's what you're

describing.

I mean, yes.

They don't get reported to VAERS.

I've had to report every single

patient that came to see

me for an injury.

I was the one, even though they'd

seen multiple other doctors, it was

me that had to reported to the

VAERS, so I know it's

under-reported.

vAERS is one of those things,

I love the idea of VAERS.

I remember reading the VAERS

report in 2021

when I worked in

television, and just going on one

night and reading it, like,

here's what's been reported from

this compound that people are

being forced to take. And

man, I got so attacked by,

you know, the Atlantic magazine and

everybody. It's like, "No, this is a

federal reporting system."

And that was kind of the last I ever

heard of VAERS. Like. No one ever

mentions it. Like what's

the point of having it if it's. Like.

irrelevant?

Dr. Bowden: Yeah, it's not subtle.

If you look on there, you don't have

to have a degree in statistics to

understand what's going on.

I mean, it is like nothing is

happening and then whoosh, you know,

just...

Tucker: Especially since it was in

place during the rollout of a bunch

of other vaccines, like

going a long way back.

So it's like, you know,

measles, rubella,

you

Dr. Bowden: Right. Tucker: COVID!

Dr. Bowden: Exactly.

Tucker: Right? I don't have any degree and I

could, I could understand that.

So does that, do you ever hear

federal officials make reference to

VAERS?

Dr. Bowden: I don't know.

Not to my knowledge.

I mean, I could have missed that,

but no.

Tucker: So the idea there seems to be the

people are complaining again. They

need to shut up.

Dr. Bowden: Apparently. It's one more thing

being swept under the rug.

Dr. Bowden: Um, okay.

So you've told a much sadder

story than I expected to hear.

Um, are you concerned

that because the technology

in these shots was,

brand new, never deployed

before at scale anyway, is that

correct? Dr. Bowden: Right.

Tucker: Um, and the,

the trials for these drugs

were, like, I think we can say it's

fair to say, a joke.

that there are consequences that,

like, haven't manifest yet.

MMYeah, it's hard to get up-to-date

cancer numbers, but I'm hearing

all sorts of things.

Tucker: Why is it hard to get up-to-date

cancer numbers?

Dr. Bowden: That's a good question.

Tucker: We're in the middle of a cancer

moonshot, doctor. Dr. Bowden: Right. [Laughs]

There's probably people that have

access to that data, but publicly,

it's hard. And so

I have to rely –

I don't see a ton of cancer in my

practice, but I do have friends at

MD Anderson, and they said they've

never seen anything like it.

Young people coming in

with very advanced tumors.

I think that's what we have to be

worried about now.

Tucker: Can I ask, you've made reference

like five times to numbers

and the difficulty in getting

numbers.

I don't understand why. I mean, I

understand why the identity of

patients is shielded by federal

law. That seems reasonable to me for

privacy reasons.

But, you know, just

the fact that someone has this or

that disease with

no identifying markers connected,

like that seems like it should be

public information. How is that not?

Why is there so much secrecy around

medical data?

Yeah.

Tucker: The data itself.

It could be there could be an agenda

behind it.

It could just be a total

inefficiency of the bureaucracy.

It's hard to say.

But yeah, it'd be

nice if we could have more data.

Well, isn't that essential to

science?

Dr. Bowden: Yeah, it is, but,

you know, it's also, I guess,

it's complicated in

some degrees to get it all out

there, but...

Yeah, transparency would be,

even aside

from the cancer numbers,

I mean, like I said with COVID,

there are all these hospitals that

had so much data at their disposal

and didn't share it.

It'd be nice to see, you know,

Houston Methodist come out and share

their data with us since they

were the first, they led the way

with the mandates.

It would be nice to see how

successful that effort was

for their employees and for their

patients.

Tucker: Can a lawsuit force that?

Dr. Bowden: I actually sued them to get that

data. [Laughter]

Tucker: Man, you are ferocious.

Dr. Bowden: But I lost, I lost.

On what grounds?

Dr. Bowden: I don't know.

It's just political grounds, I

think.

I sued to get their financial

data because as a non-profit, they

are supposed to give it to you if

somebody from the public wants to

know.

This is what they get in exchange

for not paying property taxes.

Dr. Bowden: But there was some technicality.

I don't understand really why we

lost, but we did.

We even appealed and we lost on

appeal.

Do you think that

COVID, clearly there's

been no reckoning.

You've not been recognized

for your bravery impressions.

You called it and you

should be rewarded for that.

You haven't been, likely never will

be.

So there's so much about it.

The shots are still being given to

babies.

That's my takeaway from this

conversation.

There's no effort to pull

this stuff from the market.

38,000 deaths later.

There's no recourse the average

person has.

You can't afford to hire lawyers and

you can't sue the companies that

make these products and you cancel

the government officials that force

you to take these products.

Like everything about it is just

pure Orwell.

So that's the downside. And it's

like crushing actually to hear all

of this from you.

Didn't expect to hear this.

What are the upsides?

Like people are more aware.

Do you see medicine in

the United States getting better now

that people who are paying attention

know what's up?

Dr. Bowden: I think people are feeling more

empowered, which is how they should

be. I mean, they're not listening to

the government for their health care

decisions anymore.

I think, people have learned from

that mistake and,

you know, I

haven't lost all hope.

I'm grateful. You know, there was

a time where I couldn't even, I was

banned from Twitter.

I don't know if you were, but

you know we are, free speech is

coming back. Tucker: I wouldn't.

I wouldn't, I mean they couldn't

ban me from Twitter, so they didn't.

Dr. Bowden: Yeah, yeah.

Tucker: But they could

ban much more

informed – Plus, how am I a

threat? I'm just some random talk

show host with an opinion.

The people they wanna ban are the

people who are telling the

informed truth, the

physicians who are treating

thousands of COVID patients.

Like you're the threat, not me.

Bleh!

I'm a doctor, I'm reasonable person,

I'm not political. Here's what I'm

learning. They have to ban you.

Dr. Bowden: Right, right.

Well, and you know, we're making,

hey, I'm grateful to

you for having me on here, because

this is old news to most

people, right?

And, you know we just need to keep

speaking out. We just need, to keep –

I mean, my foot is on the pedal,

even though there is no

pandemic anymore. But

we must just keep

pounding away at this.

Dr. Bowden: Well, it sounds like indications

suggest, I mean, I don't want to

overstate anything, but it feels

like the consequences

are still rippling.

And I don t know why there's not an

organized effort to find out, you

know, our cancer rates spiking.

We eliminated cigarette smoking,

which was supposedly the main driver

of cancer.

I was there for all that.

They beat me into quitting, which is

fine, you smoking is bad, I got it.

But like cancer went up.

Dr. Bowden: Dr. Bowden:-hmm.

So like, at some point I would say,

stop.

You told me this. The opposite

happened. Let's talk about why.

I'm not attacking you, but like

I demand an answer.

And I don't know why. How hard is

that to get some statistician at NIH

or wherever, HHS,

to tell me what's happening with

cancer rates and pediatric cancer

rates especially, because that's

like crazy town.

Dr. Bowden: I think, yeah, the money is

there for the treatment, not

for the cause, right?

So it is, you know,

there's lots of money, it's just

going towards –

Dr. Bowden: Whoa, whoa! That doesn't make any sense.

How can you recommend treatment

without knowing its effect?

You can't make a wise decision

without all the facts, as

we say,

right? Dr. Bowden: Right. But this is not – I mean, this

is financially driven.

So if you're in it to

make money, you're gonna go after

the treatment, not the cause.

Tucker: You're very cynical about medical care. [Laughter]

Dr. Bowden: I've seen a lot.

Tucker: Would you have gone into this if you

had known?

I'm sorry. Not to get you to

re-evaluate your life. I Dr. Bowden: know.

It's been very difficult, but it's

been impactful.

In some ways, I'm glad

it happened.

It's been very educational.

I have hope that it will change.

It may take another generation,

but COVID should be

the wake-up call.

The seeds were there before COVID,

but COVID brought it all out

there. And hopefully,

yeah, we could actually learn from

it and change course.

Tucker: You said you got a flu shot, and

then you WOUND up in the hospital

with pneumonia and sepsis.[Laughter]

I'm certain not to laugh at your

illness,

but you got flu shot.

I've never had a flu-shot because

I'm lazy,

but you clearly believe, you know,

you would have got it. You're a doctor,

you wouldn't have gotten it unless you

thought it was efficacious.

So you got one.

Has what you've seen over the past

five years changed your view of

other vaccine courses?

Yeah. I mean,

what I've realized is

I made a lot of assumptions about

vaccines.

It was, you know, the gospel

according to vaccines when I was in

training. There was no questioning

it.

It was just accepted fact.

They were safe and effective.

And COVID made me realize,

well, hold on, let's see how they

were tested. And they have not been

tested like other products on

the market. So, they don't have

placebo-controlled trials. Tucker: Any of them?

Dr. Bowden: No. Not like the other

products on the market. And they

don't have liability protection.

So the companies are not motivated.

They don't have liability exposure.

Dr. Bowden: Yeah, sorry.

Yes. So the companies are not

motivated.

There's no repercussion if something

goes wrong.

And there's no reason for to spend a

lot of money to ensure that it's

safe. So now, yeah,

I have questions about

all of them.

Now, I will say I'm not seeing the

carnage from flu

shot that I've seen with the

COVID shot. I think there's a

different degree of danger there.

uh... but it does make me question

at all and if you look at the the

flu shot in fact has never been

shown to decrease hospitalization

or death and people to get the flu

shots and actually making

more susceptible to other

viruses uh...

and you can treat it so and

I had a child who was badly injured

by the flu vaccine.

Oh, wow.

For me, that was one of the drivers

in not...

I mean, when it happened, it was

almost 20 years ago, I had no idea

that vaccine... I never thought

the vaccines could hurt anybody.

Never even in my mind.

I thought they were like one of the

great miracles of science.

I was so proud that we

developed the polio vaccine, which

I'm not against, but I didn't know

that they had potential

downsides.

And that's one of the reasons I was

like a little slow to want it. [Laughter]

But anyway,

what would you do?

So it sounds like you're not like

against vaccines, but from

what you just said, the system

around vaccines does not

put patient safety

at the forefront of concern.

Dr. Bowden: Right. Tucker: So how would you

change that? Dr. Bowden:

Well, remove their liability

protection, require them

to go through the process. Do you have liability

protection?

Do I? Yeah.

No, no. I don't.

Actually, yeah.

Dr. Bowden: I don't either!

Ha ha ha ha!

Um...

You know, we need that.

Dr. Bowden: Yeah, yeah, it'd be nice.

Tucker: It would be awesome.

You just can't sue me.

I'm such a good person.

What I do is so important to the

commonweal that you literally can't

sue me.

Dr. Bowden: Exactly.

That would be great.

Tucker: Sorry, excuse me.

Dr. Bowden: Yeah, so let me just make them go

through the process any other

product has to go through.

It's not very complicated.

Tucker: So that's the first thing you'd do.

Tucker: Why isn't that happening?

Dr. Bowden: Apparently,

when this, it was in 1986 when

Reagan put the act in place,

I guess there were two companies

that almost got just

decimated financially because of all

the kickback, the lawsuits.

That should have been a warning

sign.

Dr. Bowden: Yeah, I mean, I obviously hate

lawyers.

I've never sued anybody.

I don't think I ever will.

I really hate lawyers, quite

as much as doctors, but in that

range, okay?

So I'm against lawsuits too.

I get it, I totally get it.

Some of the tort awards are insane

and all of that stuff.

But I also think it's

fair if someone keeps getting sued

for the same thing,

like if I get a sexual harassment

suit for political reasons,

if I got eight of them.

Like, maybe I'm groping

people, right?

That's fair?

Dr. Bowden: Yeah, that's fair.

Tucker: As an empiricist, you agree with?

Yes, I am on board with that.

Tucker: So last question.

What are you going to do now that

this is all over?

Like how are you, other than

treating patients, how are you as a

formerly politically disengaged

person spending your time?

Dr. Bowden: I try to get away from it all as

much as I can and

that's what I would advise anybody

is just find something, a hobby

that gets you away from things and

get outside as much as you can.

I'm probably going

to slow down my practice a little

bit just to give myself some

breathing room and I still have

four boys in high school.

So, but

I will continue to speak out

and...

I may do a podcast,

I don't know what I'm going to do,

but the fight's not over.

Tucker: Thank you, Doctor. I really

appreciate it. That was great.

[End]