What is the Woke Right? | James Lindsay

[Music]

woke ideology has been spreading among

conservatives and it could destroy the

Republican

Party welcome to American covered I'm

Chris Chapel more than half a century

ago the Soviets had a plan to destroy

America not with bombs or guns but by

subverting American culture by taking

the existing movement for racial and

gender equality and subverting it using

the ideology of class struggle

eventually this gave way to what we call

woke some who is woke has supposedly

woken up to the truth that all of

history is about victims and oppressors

and America is a fundamentally racist

patriarchy designed to suppress

minorities that might sound like the

progressive left to you and it is but

some of this woke ideology has also

become popular among some groups on the

far right and it could rip the

conservative movement apart Matt Shelly

and I sat down to talk about this with

Dr James Lindsay he's an author

political commentator and founder of the

website and podcast new discourses and

he's joined us on our latest China

unscripted podcast so why did I start

caring about this woke right all of a

sudden and like you said uh we've just

had this big victory right and um what

is it well the what is it is easil easy

to answer it's people on the right that

have adop adopted the woke left tactics

they think like the woke left they act

like the woke left in other words they

walk like a duck and they talk like a

duck so they're a duck in other words

they have different values different

conclusions they want to push so-called

Trad values sometimes they call

themselves postmodern Trad or postmodern

traditionalists so not real Traditional

Values you know this kind of like

hipster Pastiche of of Traditional

Values but they're going to try to push

that and force everybody into it they

use cancel culture they use smears they

use you know all the all the nasty woke

tricks that you're used to they believe

that power is the be all that ends all

they think that pursuing and grabbing

and wielding power is absolutely

necessary and despite the fact one of

their biggest claims for the last

several years because these have been

around for several years has been we're

not going to be able to vote our way out

of this what are you going to do vote

harder and then allegedly we just had

this Victory where we actually did vote

harder and got our way out of it like um

so their their prediction about how

things work didn't seem to work out

exactly right but uh so that's what they

are but like I said they've been around

for a few years um what they've done is

they've taken up with the sort of they

consider them forbidden right-wing

philosophers not necessarily traditional

conservatives largely people like Thomas

Carlile who's considered the father of

both maoism and the father of uh fascism

they take up with people like Carl

Schmidt who was the crown jurist of the

Third Reich um who came up with a very

variety of political philosophies about

the absolute sovereignty of the

executive and um the idea that all

politics comes down to a violent

conflict between friend and enemy and if

that sounds a lot like how the Chinese

use it that's because the Chinese

adopted all of Schmidt in the 1980s or

earlier and have been explicitly

schmidan for a long time uh I mean they

actually you can look that up ccp's

actual political philosophy is is

Schmidt attached to um what was either

ma dong or Duna ping thought so like

that's that's their guy they've got like

I said Alistair McIntyre who's like Marx

is right except about his conclusions

because Marx wanted to maintain the

fruits of modernity but the fact is that

modernism itself is the problem so

Marx's critique is can be salvaged and

retooled to destroy modernism and

Classical liberalism completely but Marx

was essentially right this is one of

their core philosophers um they've taken

up with the fascist philosopher Julius

aola uh so these are the kind of guys

that they're talking they're big fans of

Hans Herman hop who was also very keen

on Marxist thought and Marxist methods

although to different conclusions some

of them flirt with Hitler who explicitly

said that he was using Marxist methods

and intended to complete them although

for his own methodologies they're

they're a lot of them are nationalists

but their definition of nation is

ethnonationalist and it matches exactly

Stalin's definition of nationalism from

Marxism and the national question in

1913 which he adopted in Vienna after

going and seeing he bringing his

Bolshevik ideology and witnessing the

way that uh German folk uh nationalism

kind of interacted in the Austrian Malo

before um World War I and so it's like

this is just a hot mess of bad ideas

that have kind of come together in this

uh pursuit of power for these guys so

yeah I started to use the term a few

months ago I didn't coin the term I've I

think popularized it and put it on a map

um as I tend to do I've tried to expose

these guys but the problem is frankly

nobody cares uh what people are doing is

you know as my friend said to me the

other day the boys just want 5 days in

the sun to celebrate and here you are

saying this thing but I'm going to point

out you know you know you asked we just

had this Victory there's kind of this

tone like do we have to do this now and

I think we do have to do this now and in

fact I started before the election we

had not done this Victory I decided at

the beginning of October this year so a

full month before the election I'd been

holding my tongue and holding my tongue

is like it's strategically unwise let

the election happen then we can tackle

the woke right so for you know better

part of a year I've been sitting here

waiting for this freaking election so I

can just be Unleashed to talk about this

problem that I've been watching build

but in October I was like holy crap

they're positioning themselves to fill

Trump's Administration if he wins or to

spark a civil war if he loses so better

speak up now and so I started to speak

up ahead of the election very concerned

that these people like all wokes who are

obsessed with gaining power and

multiplying their own power are going to

insinuate themselves into every single

possible thing that they can following

this Trump win and even though most of

them were like vigorously Pro disantis

during the uh nasty primary and then

they were some of them were outright

anti-trump in the leadup to the election

they've all now claimed the mantle of

Trump trump Trump trump we're Trump and

we're you know we're the true inheritors

of trump this was a big rejection of

woke left racism and that's what this is

all about um and so they are claiming to

be the only true conservatives and the

only true people who understand the

problem people like me don't know what

the problem really is we don't have

Solutions blah blah blah and we're

troublemakers so we all have to be

excluded from access to Trump World I

get told daily you will have no access

to Trump World anymore at all no chance

because we're going to keep you boxed

out by these lunatics so my goal has

been to think you know what are these

guys are going to do if they get in

positions of power they're going to do

what woke people always do they're going

to use their position of power to hire

more people exactly like them to

consolidate their power until we have a

problem that we can't freaking manage

and um I don't even think that's their

main purpose but I felt like it was

important to speak up I think they have

a totally different main purpose was

what what do you think their main

purpose is I think their main purpose is

to split the Coalition that delivered

Trump into pieces it's to get rid of the

Jews get rid of the disaffected

Democrats get rid of all these people

who just came over for the first time

voted for Trump maybe the first time

they ever voted for Republican first of

all that's a broad broad Coalition of

people who voted for Trump first we got

to get rid of them so Trump loses his

gigantic uh cross-dimensional or what

cross political base of support probably

does not have enough vote power to carry

in 26 or 28 then there are some deep

fault lines actually in the conservative

movement are we pro-israel or

anti-israel let's drive a it's never

about the CCP they don't talk about the

CCP for a minute because everybody

should be on the same side of that one

what they talk about is Israel why

because they know that they can drive a

wedge into the conservative movement

itself while scaring off all the Jews if

they can just Hammer that wedge down on

yes Israel know Israel we can make it

very simple we don't have to get into

their fancy terminology of Zionism or

Jewish power or any of these other

conspiracies or whatever else we don't

have to get it or is it is it

anti-Semitism is it's not no the goal is

um pro-israel anti-israel and to split

the conservative movement around that

and to make it as messy and nasty as

possible so that again we're not unified

we're not pouring our resources into

fixing the country in the time that we

have to do that right now and that we're

not um we're not likely to win in 26 or

2 and then finally there's another deep

fault line in the conservative movement

which is the uh Freedom versus virtue if

you will line are we Americans who

believe in individual liberties and

freedom or are we people who are going

to take an image of virtue and impose it

upon the population and their argument

is that their vision of virtue is

necessary to correct the cultural

excesses that the left has visited upon

us and the subversion of the Soviets and

the the Chinese have brought upon us um

I mean the CP there of course uh and

therefore we have to impose a vision of

virtue on the society in order to renew

it from within so um that's going to

actually be that's a deep fault line in

conservatism so again you have two deep

fault lines within the conservative

movement that you want to split and keep

us fighting and ununified weaken the

Electoral potential in 26 weaken the

Electoral potential in 28 while

generating massive amounts of stuff that

the left can then just come out with and

say look they're anti-semitic look they

hate black people look they hate gay

people look they hate women because

that's all they ever talk about is how

much they hate all these groups that

they feel have been oppressing them and

so you are you're creating the

conditions to massively lose in 26 so

Trump becomes ineffective for his last

two years in office and massively lose

in 28 where all the Democrats have to do

and it's to be fair not entirely clear

that they can do it but all the

Democrats have to do is start being very

reasonable on issues of race and talk

about economic class which is exactly

what they're pivoting to after the

murder of that uh CEO the healthcare CEO

that's all class class class now it's

billionaire billionaire billionaire if

they shut up about race and sex and

sexuality they drag the drag queens off

the stages stop pushing that everywhere

they look reasonable the radical right

looks insane and we lose hard in 26 and

we lose hard again in 28 when I say we I

mean I mean people who care about

getting the Communist threat out of this

country and so they're their their

objective their purpose some most of the

people in it probably don't realize this

and are just beating their chest and

thinking you know as they spell it

lfg but the fact of the matter is what

the purpose of this movement is is to

Splinter and destroy all the Electoral

potential going forward of the right uh

RIT large this Trump Coalition this

pro-america magga Coalition that is the

literally Beacon of Hope For The World

their job is to toxify and split that in

half and if you don't believe that's the

case just look at the alleged tenant

media Sting the doj published what was

its purpose why did it allegedly receive

$10 million of Russian money to give to

conservative influencers it was

specifically to seow Discord and dis and

and emnity within the conservative

movement to split the conservative

movement from within and that's what I

think the true purpose of this movement

is is to split apart the humongous to

scatter it like billiard balls the

humongous Coalition that delivered Trump

a historic win and frankly allowed us to

vote our way maybe vote our way out of

Communism they are they are a spoiler to

all of that that's what they're for well

what's the what's the end game there

because if

you so the the woke you're saying that

the woke rights end game is for the woke

left to succeed yeah well you got to

understand how these movements work most

of the woke right people like if you had

a woke right guy debating me he'd say

none of us want that no you're wrong you

so you're infiltrated you have a KGB

Handler or an FSB Handler somewhere in

your hierarchy you don't know about you

have deep State actors in your hierarchy

you don't know about you have

billionaires on the left laundering

money through NOS to come to you to make

sure that you do the wrong thing so

their guys win in two years and so you

guys are all totally organic but you're

not organic in the fact that you're

getting propped up by Bad actors with

lots of money and so I would I would

this sounds totally conspiratory that's

exactly how it works I hate to tell you

that's exactly how it works I mean this

is a show about China right about CCP

that's how the CCP does it it's called

dripping it's a technique you find

people that are doing activism

productive to your goals and you drip

money on them in a way that they don't

know that they're getting money given to

them it's what they did in the the

thought reform prisons in China when

when prisoners would do the things that

they were supposed to do in line with

their thought reform they would be

randomly rewarded with cigarettes or

food or snacks or candy or treats and

never told why they were rewarded and it

was actually just oper conditioning to

get them to do it so yeah you've got

influencers all throughout this network

of conservatives who are on the take or

on the dime who are working for the

other side who are leading these poor

fools into supporting something that's

going to be their own destruction so

where everywhere they can what they do

is they take power and then what they do

is try to get their friends in power

with them and so that is the model for

institutional capture and they can get a

relatively sizable amount relatively

quickly but again I don't think that's

their purpose I think their purpose is

to uh shatter the conservative movement

and provide and I don't mean the purpose

from the people on the ground don't

think they're doing this purpose they

are the foot soldiers of of of of a

strategy that's written for them um this

to shatter the conservative movement and

to create basically the basis for

propaganda from the left to say we're

the reasonable ones we told you not to

vote for the fascist right we told you

not to vote for Trump that was just one

piece of our almost two 2 hourong

interview with Dr James Lindsay we've

made the whole thing available to our

premium subscribers on China censored.tv

this new website has fulllength

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click the link below to check it out

once again I'm Chris Chapel see you next

time