The Coop | Reflections on Invento o Cais with Fernando Codeço, Julia Naidin, Sérgio Andrade, Shauna Janssen, and Laura Levin

Hello and welcome to The Coop a HEN
Hangout

and we're so happy to welcome you
all to the first session of 2025.

So we are the organizers of The Coop.

So I'm T Braun, Franklin Bonivento van Grieken

...

Denise Rogers Valenzuela,

and we are the curators of The Coop.

and we work in consultation with Laura
Levin and Tracy Tidgwell and Firmo Pompeu

will be doing Portuguese
English interpretation today.

So to activate the translation,
you select the globe

icon at the bottom of your screen,
and if you don't see it, click on more.

And it's called interpretation
so you can listen.

So Denise is holding up to show.

You can listen to the original audio

or English or Portuguese,
and you'll hear two voices

during the interpretation,
the original speaker and Firmo.

But if that's too much sensory
stimulation, you can always select mute

original audio and you can switch
between those two options

during the event, and this information
we pasted in the chat.

And if you have any tech issues or questions, you can message Denise in the chat.

Yes, and also

we will have closed captioning in English

and to activate the captions
you click on the three dots

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And if you can't see the captions,
which is like two ccs in a little box

and also at the bottom.

Yeah.

And if you have any questions,
just message me.

Yeah,

and finally,
we want to let you know that we will be

recording
today's event for archival purposes,

and The Coop is an online gathering
where we invite guests involved

with the Hemispheric Encounters Network
and beyond for a conversation.

And although many of you are involved
with Hemispheric Encounters,

the Hemispheric Encounters
Network or HEN for short

is a growing network
of activists, artists,

academics, students and community
organizations from across the Americas

that explore hemispheric performance
as a methodology,

a pedagogical strategy,
and a tool for social change.

And if

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at HemiEncounters.

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so, to be in touch.

Okay.

And before we hear from our speakers,
we want to offer a land acknowledgment.

So today, obviously we're gathered online.

So we're all in different territories
and each with their own

original caretakers and their particular
iterations of colonialism unfolding.

But Franklin and I

are presently in Tiohtià:ke
or what is known as Montreal.

So, today
I'll just speak from that perspective.

So, Montreal corresponds to the unceded
territory of the Kanien'kéha people,

and the name of this territory
in Kanien'kéha is Tiohtià:ke,

which means broken in two since
this is an island

that's crossed by two rivers
and has been a gathering place

for many First Nations
people and continues to be so.

And we acknowledge
that our acknowledgment is faulty

and that land acknowledgments in
general are very fraught.

But as hosts of this event,
we still want to express gratitude

to the original hosts of this land
and these waters, the Kanien'kéha people

and remind ourselves
of the material relations and histories

that enable our offline lives
and this virtual gathering to happen.

And I'm sure today's conversation
will offer insightful

perspectives on these issues.

Yeah, regularly.

We also have here Tracy

Tidgwell, who I would like to acknowledge
and send all the good vibes to Vernada,

her cat is not having the best time.

So, now let's turn to our guest, and today

we will have a conversation
about the exhibition Invento o Cais

at Sesc Niterói, curated by Julia

Naidin, Fernando Codeço and Daniel
Toledo, which showcases works by 14

artists from CasaDuna’s residencies
in Atafona Beach,

one of the world's most climate
vulnerable regions in Rio de Janeiro.

Through reflections of marine erosion,
the artworks

explore the environment, collective
and process based perspective

reinterpreting erosion,
not just as destruction,

but as a catalyst for new ways of seeing,
adapting and acting in the world.

Joining the conversation are curators
Julia Naidin, and Fernando Codeço,

as well as researcher Sérgio Pereira Andrade,
a professor

in the Department of Arts and Culture
of Theater Studies at the University

of Amsterdam in the Netherlands.

We also have Shauna Janssen,
professor of performance

creation in the Department of Theater
of Concordia University of Montreal,

and Laura Levin, director
and a professor,

from Hemispheric Encounters,
from York University.

So please, Fernando, Julia,
tell us more about all this wonderful

project and all yours, welcome everybody.

Okay.

So, good afternoon to you all.

I'm Julia, I will try to speak in English,
but if I have any problems,

we have Firmo here to help us.

First, I'd like also to thank you all

for receiving us
to talk about the exposition.

It's a joy
for us to be able to share this with you.

We were really happy with the result

of this exposition,
and we think that it

is a way of showing you parts of the work
that we've been doing there.

In the more concrete,

how can I say, visible

way, so

we can, we can just start

rolling the

the PowerPoint.

This is a great introduction

for you to know that in the last year
we received

more than 16 artists and researchers
there in Atafona

sharing interests

in thinking about how arts

(IN PORTUGUESE interference)

(IN PORTUGUESE interference) in some territories

and also to be able to communicate

about the situation,
expanding the narratives

that's not really

localize it in
the territory to amplify this,

this debate.

So, for this exposition,

we made a selection of artists,

and, especially from some specific groups
that have been there.

One specific with Daniela Toledo in 2022

and another one with Hernández

It was on visual erosions, in 2018

and also with a group of

a school of arts in Rio

that's called Escola Sem Sítio,
we can translate

maybe as "School of Non-place", in 2019.

So, we will show you a bit of 14 works

that we'd decided to arrange
in this exposition.

So, Fernando, if you can just pass again.

As a methodology of work there,

we always try to

put ourselves as mediations

in between the artist
and the territory

as we were living there
for the last seven years.

So, we receive them.

And most of all, we,

we put

our focus on a experience with the ambiance,
with the atmosphere, with the erosion,

and also with the wood part
of the environment,

of the pleasure that the environment
still can offer there.

So, our mediation focused on listening

to the people who lived there, and who deal

with erosion, and to learn

living with the erosion, and to adapt to

the climate crisis that the territory

has been living with for the last 17 years.

So we have
there people who already lost

not one house,
but sometimes five houses, seven houses.

And how do people adapt to this and create
a conviviality with this process?

We think there's

the same kind of pedagogical experience
in this

conflict

with erosion,

and we think that this is

an important message
for artists to receive.

So our work
there, as you will be able to see,

it's not focus on only works in

as a special, a

separate ambiance
for the artist to create,

but also in the in the beach,

in the sea, in the river with people.

It's what we like to think

as a contextual art environment.

So art that is created in beloved,
in the context,

not in solitude experience,

so that you have some image
of those experience

of walking around
and just feeling the territory.

We believe a lot
in the kind of information

that the experience can bring

to the creative process.

So now you can press again, please.

There is an image of some process
of artists.

It's one image of inside the house,
as you can see.

But then you can see
also some of collections

that artists used to to do in the beach.

In the
the right side, you can see those small

word images
that I don't know is to all feel

the the small

things that people use to buy houses.

And when the houses are destroyed
by the process

of the erosion with the sea,

the sea and the erosion process.

Do some sculpture in this work

that I miss

is the basis of the houses.

Yes. Thank you.

And yes, so

there you can see,
you can have an estimate of of time

that the debris is rolling

in the sea and in the beach.

And we have different size of this week.

So it's a

it's an interesting process
that one of the artists

made, not only him,
but it's it's an interesting process

to think about how time, process,
destruction also.

And in the other side, we have an artist

that work a lot photographing and as

to making collages with the

I don't know

which college is the right word,
but making together

different photographs,
cutting and rearranging to

to think differently about the images
and the imagination that came

that can be created
when we organize the images

so you can press there.

We were in

in that specific place.

It's a bar and also ateliers
and also a house.

The we well lived

great friend of us, Nicole.

And his place was amazing
because he created oh delete.

There was his house

was the bar where it sells drinks
but there he

he works with the material of the lens

as well to to build

a really specific place
totally created by him.

And he also has this this conception

of creating with what the art gives

with the sea brings

and reminds in 18 functions

and and images with that

most of the time people see only garbage.

So it's a it was a specific place

that we normally take the art
is there to to amplify

the the perspectives of art

and what we can use

to to create the to recreate the materials

so you can go a place.

There

is Daniele Pulido which is also an artist

and the was the creator exposition

there, his writing future in the sand.

But what seems to be the sand there in
this image

was actually the rest of the street.

How can I say this word in English?

Also A to the the concrete.

Yes, the concrete of the street.

It used to be a street,
but the sea has already destroyed

these specific area used to have like

four kilometers ahead.

And now the what is happened in this beach

is that the oh,
the city is going backwards.

As the sea events in the city.

The city is building,
rebuilding itself back

like the sea came and the

the constructions go backwards.

And there I don't know if you can see the

there's this

area where you have a limit
between the sands

and where is reaching future.

So it's like a catastrophic image future,

but also invites us to think about

future.

What can we what can we do in this case

but is so work that Daniele

have been doing in different places

and he's been thinking about this as a

as a as a crisis, as a problematic
and he's been reaching these

in so many spaces.

And then he chooses this one.

And I think we saw was a specific work.

It was not what is in its position but

we we choose to to show to you

because of this limited experience

that these were written in
this place can bring to us.

You can

go ahead, please

that you have some experience of

video works that was being there in

the image above is for an the ground and

see that repeatedly with these

groups of three

and do a and of dance

where she she goes backwards
and then she got into this tree

and then

she dance in this route

and we have a video of this performance
in the exposition

and it's also video.

Maybe you can see another moment,
if you like.

We can talk to her and maybe send to you,

because it's a it's a kind of fusion
between

between the body and the root

with the sea that came in the route
while she was there.

So it's really sensitive work as well.

You can best fit, please.

Well,

there is inside Nico's house,
as you can see.

I was telling you that he built everything
and each small part of this bar

was created by him with any material
that you can imagine.

Like there's no limits to

to, to what is a basis for a creation.

And there is another resident,
Lucien, of Uncle Sam's, that spend

a few days with us there
and made some performance

in the in this bar.

And then Vogue Canada was able

to make some photos
and in the exposition we

we could put this photos in there
in the lumber.

I don't know if you know,
I need help to translate lambada.

There's word for it in English

for wallpaper.

Wallpaper, maybe.

Thank you, Marty.

I think it's wheat bait.

Wheat paste, posters,

controversy.

But Qatar's King

Kong Energy

feed the Congo Energy defining wheat

wheat based posters of that
that can come in You guys.

Yeah.

Give money to popular book
soup to a buffet.

It's a stick with it
stomach was a happy then

there's no point of this

Maintain
the structure and the dignity of the work.

It's to be a to to be able to do fast

and it can be destroyed first as well.

And there were some good images

in this
that we can put in this position also.

So you can most

there is

maybe what eyes who just enter
in the meeting with this helping

with the translation and he was doing
she was doing

this is performance

which I don't know this word as well.

He did a basic who can help me

is a material of the

fishermen
that they use to reach net fish in that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

In the

it's a traditional ways

that fishermen works not like the big

structure of of fishing.

Fishing. Yes.

And and also Mariana,
after this performance

in the other side of the screen,
you can see a process

of the DVD performance that she made did

18 and 2022.

And this video went to exposition.

Not the, the performance with the fishnet,

but the also you can see the ambiance.

And we wanted to show you a bit of the

the visual of the environments there

and how we always are trying to

to make the words the works

being created in the territory,

not in the isolated form.

You can't best fit. Please.

Okay there is that Sweden

and he's also a video artist

and he works with

old films and he is

there in this image that you can see

he would like very the
the film in the same

berry I think the hunger it

yeah yeah and those and then the sand
and though

the small animals and different lives

in the sand interfere in the feel

and after he he he process this and best

since this feel in the the exposition

so you have a very specific image

as results of these and he work there they

this image is in the same with the sea
interfering as well as you can see.

But he also puts the film

inside the river for a few days

and then blessed by the fishes,

the the vegetables, vegetable, the

everything in the sea,
the other the the animal life

that interfere in the film
and then is beautiful to see the results.

And we could put in the exposition, also

see possible.

That's from Vito.

He's a painter and he so so on that

he used to work with this
with the group theater.

But as we know that
he thinks we invited him

also in the residence and ask her to

to make some paintings in houses
that are already abandoned

by the the old

owners.

Sorry.

And that he's performing.

Let's talk with these

but there I don't know some plug

for that. Yes.

This white flag that's Carolyn

fell and see another

artist that were with us

and this day was,
as you can see, a cloudy day,

sort of raining day with strong wind.

So I don't know these these white flags.

And it has a

and and

I don't know, something like a peace sign.

But in this environment with non beings,

in an
environment that is always in tension

with the nature
is so always in this conflict

between the building of the city
and the the sea

that is coming inside the city
and making this restriction.

So in this context specific,
this white flag don't bring us

exactly the the beast energy, but instead

like a conflict with this symbol.

Now you can go ahead, sit it, please.

Yeah.

This is a part of the educational program
that we do there as well.

This is a group of students
that we receive with the teacher

that teaches there and knows the work
and is always in contact

with us to bring some students
for us to talk about this relation

between art and education
and what are the possibilities

of the art
to talk about the environmental crisis.

It's hard to talk about what's there.

Even though they lived in this.

The daily lives is a sensible subject

because, you know,
obviously is is the reality.

But it's it's
the said subject is a trauma.

It's a live
the trauma, the daily situation.

So sometimes we discover that

it helps to talk about these

and to deal with the trauma of the

the losing,
losing of houses, losing of memories.

So this kind of pedagogical function

of it, to talk about environmental
surprises is important to us as well.

Say, please, you know,

this Rossini is a

and an artist from India that in the end

we went there to work with this
and make a video performance as well.

Then the best piece,

this is a parts
of a frame of the video work

that I've done there
I've been working with achieves.

Then thinking about

something between was

how can we make a private, achieve

a public achieve and vice versa.

What is the is this complex

and political and delicate issue
like what is a private achieve

and how public can this be
to collaborate this to

to talk about things that are political
that's attached to everybody.

This lady he made
and now she's following the sea,

destroying this building
in front of her house.

And they made a small documentary about it

which calls concrete sea.

And the maybe I think,

how you can

you put another image,
but I think that maybe

I can pass the words now.

Yes. To for you to talk
about the exposition properly

and then we can lead to talk a bit more

in the conversation.

I will put my microphone

won't evolve Falak Fuku.

But if you mean to
this was so present, then do premiere

or Kim
Panorama is now the community organizer.

I suppose so.

There was one victim as oppressed don't
suppose sums up para sit on a peasant.

Sometimes you will and I in the process.

Yeah. Ki is interesting.

AC was imagines a qui mostyn-owen

mccomas as oppressed
photo organized in response

pensando simply as the swings in three

l isn't the homeless budding career, i.e.

losing three in three process which are
that Euston Nasser Let's imagine.

It's interesting

today struck by the stories daily
so Mills Key

is to maximize agitate
the kill will Scott engage

in passive messages
trapped by this conventional the questions

about the ice cube standing up riot
yes here the skill could

use is in Stella's voice, a key vote.

The main concern to transform
and have been to me main Michaela.

So I'm going to get started.

The action in a material dodge, a keystone

that concrete that makes

me to think about art history,
about concrete art,

phantasmagoria.

And those material has a ghost

like character.

That's how I see

the act of fishing and fishing

has this presence in Brazilian history.

It also has an important role

to play in terms of economy.

Paolo Vitor also works the VAT.

As you can see, this is a window that
he found at the beach and a lot of Arizona

near.

We can see Daniel's
work in the background.

He also works with material fan

on the beach.

So this whole part of the exhibition made,

but with material found on the beach,

there is a dialog
between this materials found on the beach.

They were not traditional and modern

modern works, but

Daniel also works with collages.

He uses wood.

You can see some of them in the background

and he grows them.

He uses the plastic
from from pop bottles to

to make these montage.

We can see here some video work.

This is part of the video

that's part of the exhibition.

We'll also see some of Isabella's work.

We'll see them in more detail later

here.

You can see some of her work.

This is a type of route,
but it's actually made of latex.

This is the one that you see

towards the center of the photo.

There's something else in the background
that has a more aggressive character.

It's made of glass and that in clay

beside her work,
you can see taste is work.

Here.

This is work made in a studio.

The goal is to bring the atmosphere, parts

of the landscape
that they saw and tried to capture.

You can see Louisiana's
photos on the wall.

This is part of the meeting with Oceana,

Nikos Bar.

This is Rafael's work,

and that's Cara's work.

So this was a very quick
walk through the exhibition,

but now we can
look at them in more detail.

So this is Danielle's installation

here.

The detail shows how he added these pieces

together using plastic bottle.

All the elements were found on the beach.

This is my work.

This is how I attach the net.

It shows the idea of creating

these geometric forms

and adding the Brazilian neo

concrete system.

This material is very abundant.

The the nets fall apart

and the fishermen just throw them out.

I have made a lot of work with it
because this is the kind of material

that's very dangerous for for marine life

when it's back in the ocean.

So there is there is an attempt to

to take care of this material,
to repurpose

them.

Now, the crabs

there is there is a relationship to life.

And still how erosion of erosion comes in.

So all I'm doing is putting it together.

I'm finding the bricks and these
iron broads and I'm putting them together.

So they kind of reminded us
of these creatures,

creatures that live in the main,
the mangroves and a phone in

this is Paolo,
beside the window that he painted.

Thank you.

The work amounts to the idea
that the sea is coming back

to popular idea of the locals,
especially with the Fisher people.

This idea that the sea is reclaiming

what belongs to it.

In fact,

that piece of land at some point ready
belong to the sea.

Scientifically speaking, that's also true.

So that's that's what it says.

The sea is coming back.

You can see this in the painting.

This is also beautiful work
that was present.

This is Rafael, his work.

He organizes these pieces of bricks

on top of notebooks

in invites us to think about

a type of geological writing.

Also about the process of the artist.

We are creating a language

through the erosion.

This is part of the reference.

This is Isabella's work.

You can see it in a close up
to delicate work.

She uses glass, ceramics, latex.

And here is the same work
from a different perspective.

This statue is work.

This is a film that he collected
from an old file.

He buried this in the sand.

Money sack sand.

This is a specific kind of sand
that's present there.

It's a low radiation sand.

Let's let's watch this now.

This is Tice's work,

also a very intricate, very delicate work.

Your beautiful interior lives.

She creates this dynamic between salt,

glass and iron.

The salt kind of erodes
the iron that holds up the glass.

You can see this and the image
the one on the left was when she

first put it together.

And this
is later that showing the corrosion

that salt caused in the work.

This is Jerome Rossi's work.

It's a still video, still image

here.

Filmed the window of a warehouse

that's actually being buried by the sands.

There's a little bit of movement

in the plants here,

so we create this.

We had a TV in the back to make it
to bring by this idea of a window.

This is Corral corrals work.

We also saw this

during Julia's presentation.

She has a huge flag that she brings
to the meeting place

between the river and the sea.

He made this work here
by creating these stamps,

postal stamps.

It remains a little bit of a video, right,

Because you can see the flag movement
along the way.

And here is the flag.

We installed it
on the outside of the exhibition

here.

We can see why this work.

This is her meeting with Maker.

And then we paste post again

here and she glue them on the outside.

She talked a bit about her meeting

with Nico in Arizona, Lou,

who is an activist, a trans artist,

a black person,

and she adds all of that to her work,

a black trans trans woman in Brazil.

It's important to her

to share these moments,

moments
where she can express her artistry,

her subjectivity,

and she was able to share a lot of her

thinking with that.

Here are the videos.

We're not going to be able
to watch them now,

but I like to tell you here
the videos that are present there.

Fernando Breakfast video.

Julia talked about Julia video.

This video of Mariana and Sara. Jamie it's

so there and

I tried to stay on point.

So we have enough time to talk.

I hope this gives you a general view

of the exhibition

We had to choose.

There were many artists
that came through Casa

Dona.

I hope that this gives you
an idea of the work that we did.

I'd like to thank you.

And I want to open the floor
so we can continue the conversation.

And it's my turn.

Okay,

Tyler, do this.

Do this before what you brought to us
today.

Fernando. Julia,

I have had the opportunity to visit.

I had a phone with both of you.

I was able to witness
the work that you developed there.

I think it's important

to share this to this
group that's with us today.

I'm reinforcing
something that I see in your work, Right?

There's this persistence.

You've been there for eight years now.

You've been there since 2017,

so it's been eight years.

And the work

I know how important this is to to you

and you know,

and this is also a cancer position
as to other works

that visit out of Toronto that come and go

or make a spectacle out of it,

the this is an erosion process

that's 60 years long.

It has been sped up

doing to industrial activity
in the area and

there is a violent process that's been

getting aggravated

with through interventions of abuses

on the environment.

And this shows the many ways that artists

and art can also produce,

make and also use some of these process
for their work.

I think what you're trying to do
is to show

a an option to think about a continuity,

a process of creating connections.

You have this work

of environmental awareness
within the community.

You work with the Landless Movement

in Brazil.

Ramon

Oh, I'm sorry.

Then there is a lady that's an activist.

I forget her name.

Please forgive me.

No, no, no.

In the manga and it's.

Yes. Yeah, I can hear you.

I'm sorry. There.

There was there was a pause there.

So. Yes.

You've been working on different
fronts, right?

Academic research and, art, art, research.

You were working on your postdoc, doctor.

You work with a theater group,

Grupo Arizona, the Russian group.

So. But I have a question.

My question is related to this choice

to not make a spectacle

of the erosion process.

It's a choice not to romanticize
this process.

Can you talk about that?

How how do you see this process

of not knowing, of avoiding

making a a spectacle

or to avoid romanticizing that

the the event

and by creating peer

right that uses the line from the song

and right of of creating something,
of recreating something,

something that needs
to be constantly re created

then there is an idea to keep creating

and recreating.

There is

there there are
there are many, many layers.

And this erosion is very symbolic.

How do you understand
there's non romanticizing,

there's erosion process, there's known

looking at this process
as something exotic,

but also now making it,

you know, a doomsday kind of scenario.

Can you talk about that?

Shall we shall we comment on this?

I guess it's better to
to hear all the questions first

and then we'll answer.

And at the end.

One. Yes.

Hi. Hi.

I'll be brief.

Can I. Can everybody hear me?

Great.

Okay.

Well, I mean, I wanted to,

first of all, say thank you to Julia
and Fernando

for presenting this

amazing work and,

you know, maybe picking up a little bit on

what Sergio is commenting on about
how do you do this

work and be in community and not

so into romanticizing the work.

And I mean, I don't know if I have much
of a as much of a question or a comment,

but what I was struck by is this tension

and drawing attention and mobilizing

publics and community
around this tension of

of of these culture, nature,
nature, culture dynamics and

especially with some of the earlier
work you were sharing, Julia,

kind of
thinking about even just from the images

and through this screen,
there's this that some of these artworks

are conjuring

feelings of, of tenderness.

For me, ritual mourning.

And I started to think about, like this
kind of process of ritual, of witnessing

that's happening on the site as well.

So I'm just wondering if that that for me

has something to do
with kind of countering,

making the spectacle and, and,

and kind of thinking about this witnessing
or these actions.

I don't know if that's
what you've been witnessing

because you're so embedded and embodying
that site and have been for a long time.

So I think it's it's a
it's a question of thinking about

how you see

do you see this work as a kind of ritual
or or mourning or witnessing.

And I think when we see
images of the water, you know, immediate,

you start to kind of feel like
we're in the rhythm of of this erosion

and witnessing in this kind of a
still life form and in the documentation.

So I don't know if that's really
a question as much as it is a comment.

I find I really find the work
in the project really moving.

So I wonder
if you could speak a little bit to that or

and the other question
I had was to what degree the locals

and the community are embedded in
and working with, Have they?

What's the if you could say a bit
more about the importance of their agency

in the work and, and, and hosting

I guess outsiders coming in to

to work in the site

for that.

No it's okay.

I mean if I,

I what I was expecting us to sort of ask
a question and answer

or ask the question and answer.

So I think like showed I'll be brief
if we're if we're going in this way,

I'll also say thank you
for sharing this with us

and congratulations.

This is really moving

and amazing work that I think
we can all learn so much from.

I'm really interested in

something that Fernando said.

We were talking about creating a language

for the erosion and

and it made me think about the question

of what role
performance plays in your work.

You know, how a question

what I keep coming back to
because the presentation of the work

in this way, in this form we're seeing it
in a kind of an installation and format.

But you're also describing dance

the the woman who is dancing
and the root of a tree, for example,

must look familiar
with some of your other work.

That's more theater based
and had the pleasure of engaging

in a workshop that Fernando led
that was theater based as well.

So I'm kind of interested in like

how is what role performance plays
in creating

a kind of language for the erosion
and if it if it does at all, and

what can

performance do that other art forms
can't or or is performance

not the most useful term in thinking

about this particular body of work
that you're sharing with us?

Just interested
in the specificity of artworks

and the language that they create
in the context of environmental collapse.

And I think that like for me,
that also goes back to something

that Julia was talking about that
I found really moving, which is thinking

about the pedagogy part of this work

and Julia, you were talking about

how art in the context
of environmental crisis

can help us with dealing
with the trauma of loss,

the trauma of losing tangible things
that mean a great deal to us, and

and also the loss of memory
eventually as well.

So I see these two things
as kind of operating in conversation

with one another.

The idea of
I hear the idea of creating a language

as being in conversation, this idea
of helping people to deal with trauma.

And I was interested in hearing you talk
a little bit more about all of that.

And then secondarily,
just because Hemispheric Encounters

is a transnational project, thinking about
whether this language is site specific

or whether it could be transferable to
other contexts of environmental collapse.

You know, in North America, for example,
we've seen really stark

images, for example, of L.A.

and severe environmental destruction,

a totally different context,
totally different situation.

But we're

talking about climate disaster
in another context.

So can can
we think about laying a language

that that troubles as well?

So my thoughts

evolve along book

together go and okay feeding

and I respond

I think I think I can

I can answer better that way.

So you brought up a lot of problems.

You brought up paradoxes,

struggles, obstacles.

I think a reason to be

there is to work on those paradoxes.

How can we build

how can you build the work that works

with the language
that deals with destruction,

something that goes beyond and negative?

Look,

But how does this abstraction

affect other things being produced?

Someone leaves the house

because the sea is approaching.

Someone else will come in or within
that house

will create a bar, something that
worked during the summers. It

this and
now this is this is something new.

It creates new life.

It created new possibilities.

This is something
that might have been considered

gone, wasted

the this idea

of romanticize of of making a spectacle.

But it's it's it's definitely a challenge
for have been there for years

with host artists that stay for for a week
and then they move on

they can create work
that we have no control over.

And that's that's

why our focus there is the mediation
between the artists and the land

so that these artists
can hear to the people,

so that their experience
that will impact them

and in a sense sensitive way

in their work later on,

they may develop
something that will sell or not.

You know what?

We're not worried about that.

We're more worried about the learning
process that this or have later on.

Obviously, we have

no control over what they will do

out of our
the information that they gathered

there were always running meetings

so people can can talk about
their experiences

to the artists.

So we

I don't have a better answer.

I'm from Rio.

I was shocked when I arrived in

at our phone at

the teaching experience

needs to go through living with the laws

and to create within it.

It's an existential condition.

The pedagogy is not specific to a content,

the environmental laws,

but it touches all of us

if we are people

that take the environmental problems
seriously.

And yeah,

we are in Brazil, we are feeling it.

I believe we'll all have to deal with this
loss.

The lot, the material loss,
the loss of a certain lifestyle,

lots of lots of loss.

How does the community receive this?

Well, very well.

They're often very happy about it,

Believe it or not,

this is not a topic
that receives a lot of attention.

So we don't.

But we moved there.

And so we we became neighbors.

And that's how people see this.

The work
our work is to bring attention to us,

but to put the spotlight on it,

to to create a dialog around it.

I think performance has a special role

in the work that we develop.

I think it's the context
I think is the very nature of performance

that allows us to use that and to to

performance is a language
that's very important

to us.

We as a theater group,

we were always very
linked to the performance.

Our works
were always rooted in performance.

You know, I might be on the beach,

it might be some archive work.

It was a type of theater
that was that was born

from the territory.

And I'm going to wrap up.

Sorry, there are lots of questions
I still want to make from our friend on

the I'd like to touch

upon the idea of the end of the world.

There is an important thinker in Brazil.

I read some Quranic.

He here said that the world has ended
many times.

Many worlds have.

So when we go over there,

what we see is that
this is not the end of the world.

It's the end of a world.

It's something that will
lead us to a new experience.

It's part of a cycle.

It's not the apocalypse
that will be the end of all of us.

We are going to have to keep dealing
with it.

Consequences
of our actions, of our explorations,

our way of interacting.

So it might be more complex
than simply an end,

something that would simply put

an end to our problems.

There is no end

and their worlds
have been ending for a very long time.

I think at a phone TED talks about that

and in many ways
and it extrapolates and and connects

to many other experiences

of ending many
that we have lived by living now.

And we'll continue to live.

I think it has an existential pedagogy,
pedagogy.

It's sad and happy at the same time.

It brings a sadness and a

melancholy in its nature.

I think it's a very rich experience

to live in that territory,
something very valuable.

That's it for me.

I'm going to try to add something to what

Julia said,

and I'm
going to start with Sergio's points.

It seems to me

that when we work with an art
and we try to engage or

we try to be environmentally responsible,
we we

we don't really have an answer,

but there is something we know

we are going to need to build alliances.

We're going to have to compromise.

We're going to have to involved
with the territories.

We're going to have to spend time there.

There are some points that we know

are just vital
so that the work will make sense in a way

so that they will have some sort of impact
for the people that live there.

We we live there,

but we chose to live there.

However, there are people that live there
because they have

nowhere else go.

We know that our presence
there is different from it.

We're always going to be foreigners
there in one way or another.

So how can our work
be become relevant to them?

We don't know.

But we understand that

there is art that doesn't care about that.

There is art that is for producing

the exploitation processes,

but we are there

and we it is our job to sometimes
point the finger and say, Hey,

what you're doing here
is this like you're not being any better?

Excuse me.

There is there is no sound from us.

It's back.

And then those sound I stopped

there is this similar

to a similar place called us.

Assume that I'm. I'm sorry.

Unfortunately
I can't hear Fernando's audio,

so we need to be aware.

Art. Art can have many different ways,

many different ways to interact.

I'm sorry.

I don't know. I don't know
what's happened. I'm going to.

Maybe. Maybe if I.

Yeah. Yeah, It's better now.

Yeah.

So where should I go back to

this?

Carry on from where you were.

It seems to me
that there is nuance that we can.

We can know this.

There is.

There is artwork.

Fernanda Sound is frozen again.

Well, I mean,

I think we had like a huge like

at least a good summary of the response,
like,

oh, what to say?

Like this connection was originated

by this team, but

I mean, maybe it's mom

and who clones this space and we can

or should wait a little bit.

Yeah, let's wait.

We can wait then.

Yeah, let's wait then.

At least they they back.

I will send a message

on their phone.

Yeah.

He saved both of them.

Lost the connection.

Let me see what he's saying.

Uh, standby.

He would try again

via cell phone.

You know,
when we are working the hemispherical.

Me, the.

This is always a thing, you know,

the connection, always

the the timezone.

So we need to have it all like

entourage like, like performative

moments for kind of the intermissions
when people leave.

I think I would like to nominate the niece

who creates incredible short
puppet shows to have something ready

for sessions

so that the puppet theater can take over

as we're

as we're
waiting for the connection to come back.

It could be a way for us
to organically deal

with the discomfort of

good.

Oh, see,

that's exactly.

Yeah.

I also nominate Jess.

Jess can also.

Yes, provide.

Yes, but yes.

Oh, time.

Here's Julia.

Julia's back.

Oh, no.

Oh yeah.

She's about Wow.

Sorry.

Let me

get sick.

It's.

No, Hey, come here.

One moment.

Yeah.

Looks like he. He's.

It's going to

another.

Yeah, They're shooting today.

So now that Kim is

loyal to them, the.

He can't hear me

when they have internet.

But how erosion effect that. Yeah.

The end of the world.

The beginning of the world interview
follow the book that's.

That's a lesson that gives you
a little bit about relationship

trouble artist creating a

Rasmus showing
so I where it has dimensions

that aren't always related to two

as I invest

commitment generally I know

the I I create

I create here shows that commitment

we provide is some we have other work.

Some work that are more territorial such

as moving museum.

There's a little child
giraffe to perform in the Dodge

or that idea to create a direct dialog

with the community

interest.

They want to bring words to
to the community,

to the fisherfolk community.

But we need to be watchful.

We need to be always thinking
about this social mapping to what I said.

It doesn't matter whether I work

with painting
my near physical, just trouble you ten.

Is there any way that I
can make this this work echo

with this place

as custodians and permits you made

because you survive the sky and trouble
you could dance a case in tone,

add a super talented disaster in there.

Yeah.

So this is in strings
section, this question

key callout.

It tries to follow too much modeling.

While talking about Laura's point,
I talked about the idea

of creating a language
that's connected to erosion quite in

to maintain the hand that you're watching,
just as in check it out.

So something that we learn along the way,
we are raised thinking that you know that

the artist is some sort of genius
that is created.

He or she is creating something
that something so special

and so different.

There's a there's a

that ego plays a big role as become fuzzy.

But what we understand
now is that the work to work

with is to create a partnership.

Clark
hasn't seen the theme compared to Rio,

and of course we still offers

in some sort of way, but we share

the the, the,

the authorship with the territory of Zoom

due to June, January Church Commission.

And we know that this work isn't simply

the product of an artistic genius.

Is this job.

We are listening to
what the erosion is producing,

to what those lads are telling us
taught them.

We are working on some sort of interpreter
that the man.

I think the idea of like translation

in an arts is also something
that's really interesting.

Whipsawing the sink is exciting.

The man is into the key

to Archibald parts inside the Apache.

That's a perspective.

You can also understand
art from this perspective

is something that's beyond what's human.

A perspective on art doesn't

all belong only to the human perspective.

We could think about art and in this way,
and there's this type of art

that we were working with as something
that actually exists in this process.

In this meeting point,
you start to realize that it exists

within this environmental
processes in time

that exists within the senses.

And the other thing is,

I don't know that there is a way
create this language

aside from this relationship
to create Abdallah El Apache sea sponges.

But I think once created,

yes, that language can expand.

Yes, we are working locally,
but we understand that these are global

topics.

They are particular to a phone
that we keep them at.

A phone is reflecting questions
that exist and in other places

seeing you ask them to you Marquesa

and this issue the dome

and I think that is reflected
in the works.

Keita visit is a puzzle that may asking
I might be.

I may be missing something.

Uh, a proposal.

But in general terms, I think that's that.

That's what I had to to share with you.

These are my thoughts.

Because insofar as I

go over and now what do we do?

We a comment about spam

camera

and clap noses
so game the Kentucky cat Zimmer

which McCoy's I don't know if there's an
is there anyone here

that would like to say something
because it's just myself Flora and Shauna.

But maybe there is someone else here
that would like to make a comment.

Mr. Hopkins
Just to make sure that wrapping up

of sad

my response to the farmer,

But I'd like to open the space.

Everybody's too shy to say anything.

It's fine.

No problem.

Yeah, I think we have to to wrap up now.

Otherwise we.

We would need our back up for fear.

Marcus have been doing an amazing job.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Thank you.

Feel more.

But, God, this human penalty of the people

together feel

they are.

The stories are amazing translators.

Great job.

Always.

But regardless, in regard to Jane Spiller

teleported in the presence.

Still

presence.

Thank you. Thank everyone.

Thank you for this opportunity.

It's so important to us.

It's so important to be part of this.

I don't think I.

I thanked everyone from the Nicole.

Yeah.

I mean, she as it's time
to get out this opportunity.

That's where the contextually

very grateful for this opportunity
to share this with you.

And I hope we can continue this dialog.

Yeah, it's it's so important.

It's such an important work.

It still is
but that we're very happy about it.

Both of my time after I got this set.

I mean, momentum is very can countless
and can you to take them right now to

to thank in the name of this
great encounter this is large network we

had. Fernando is our most post-doc member.

He just finished his product project

about June and I'd like to thank him.

We gave us the opportunity to meet
because he's doing a work unit.

And so

I'd like to thank for this partnership

and I hope that we can keep working

and as I get more,

I think it's that then easy D

And frankly, everybody,

thanks to all the people

that have gathered to the moon.

Thank you, everyone. Thank you.