Working WITH Landlords to Prevent Evictions (Prevention Matters! Episode 12)

Hello everybody and welcome to today's

Prevention Matters panel session.

Prevention Matters is a monthly online

panel that's hosted by the Canadian

Observatory on Homelessness where we

dive into what it really means to

prevent homelessness in our various

communities. Most of us know that

prevention is necessary if we want to

solve the current housing crisis. But

this series exists because if we want to

address homelessness through prevention,

we must be clear on what prevention

means. So what can we do to reduce the

chances that someone will experience

homelessness in the first place? What

can be done to support people who are at

a high risk of homelessness or who have

recently become

homeless? And how can we ensure that

people who have experienced homelessness

and who are now housed don't face

housing procarity again? to delve into

these questions. Prevention matters

invites brilliant minds to tell us about

how prevention looks in their work along

with the lessons they've learned along

the way. So before I introduce today's

panel topic, it's important to state

first and foremost that a healthy stock

of government funded affordable housing

is a critical part of ending

homelessness. In other words, we will

not be able to solve our current

homelessness crisis without a good

amount of deeply affordable housing that

stays affordable regardless of market

conditions. We need regulated housing

where the rent prices won't double two

years from now simply because more

people become invested in living in a

particular city for instance and there

is definitely more that our decision

makers could be doing to make that a

reality. However, while we know that

government funded affordable housing is

key to solving homelessness, we also all

know that those housing units aren't

available today. And while I'd be loved

to be proven wrong, um I think we also

know that the public housing stock we

need is also not going to be waiting for

us when we wake up tomorrow morning

either, right? And that means that while

we advocate for an adequate stock of

deeply affordable government funded

housing on a larger scale, the support

services who are on the front lines

today just have to work with what we

have. And if you listen to service

providers who are on the front lines

right now, then you'll know that in a

lot of cases, if you want to house

someone in our current market, then

pragmatically housing them today can

often mean working with private

landlords in order to secure a place to

live for someone. The reality is that

access to private market housing is

essential for any homelessness

prevention strategy that would be

successful in our current climate. But

securing this access can be really

challenging when you're serving a

vulnerable population because of things

like stigma. So to learn how

organizations today are bridging the gap

between landlords and tenants to prevent

homelessness, today's panel discussion

will focus on what it takes to build and

maintain private relationships with

private landlords and prevent evictions

through this pathway. Our guests will

share practical insights on how to make

these relationships work in their roles

as service providers with a specific

focus on navigating the unique barriers

that black, indigenous, and racialized

clients face in the housing market.

However, before we get into it, I have a

couple of of exciting announcements

about some cool opportunities that are

coming up on the horizon. So, first

off, I'm really excited to share that

the Canadian Observatory on Homelessness

in partnership with Away Canada under

their joint project, Making the Shift,

is now accepting applications for the

2025 Youth Homelessness Prevention

Awards. This award was created to

celebrate the important work that's

being done to prevent youth homelessness

in Canada. and two winners will be

awarded a cash prize of $10,000 each. If

you're involved with an organization or

project doing something innovative to

prevent youth homelessness, then please

visit our website to learn more about

how your team could

apply. The other thing that I wanted to

put on your radar is that our first ever

in-person panels are now available to be

watched on YouTube. So, if you've been a

part of Prevention Matters for a while

now, and you remember around last

October when I was going on and on about

these in-person panels that I was really

excited about, then you may have been

able to join us at last year's CAH

conference in Ottawa and participated in

our first ever Inerson panels, which

means that we basically did this process

in a room with people live and it was

really cool. Um, if you were there, you

might also remember the fun I had with

getting people to wear Halloween props

because it happened that one of the days

fell on October 31st. So, there's two

panel discussions up now available on

our YouTube channel for those of you who

are interested in watching those back.

I'm not going to tell you which one has

the Halloween costumes. You're going to

have to go look for yourself, but I am

going to tell you that both

conversations were a good time and it

was just really fun and insightful. So,

Emma's going to go ahead and help me put

a link in the chat where you can check

out those panel recordings today and I

really do encourage you to take a look

at them after um today's conversation.

I also have some news about how you

could get involved in the in-person

panels that we're going to be hosting

later this year. So, I'll be back at the

end to tell you more about that. Stay

tuned. Focusing back on today's panel

though, I wanted to remind you that

these sessions are not your typical

webinar. Your participation is a key

part of this experience. So, I encourage

you to engage among yourselves in the

chat and ask any and all questions you

might have during our Q&A in the second

half. I also wanted to remind you that

your feedback is very important to us.

So, if you have any thoughts on how we

could improve your experience, we'd

really appreciate you sharing them with

us. Please make use of a feedback form

in the chat because we really do want to

hear from you. The session will be

recorded and shared publicly on our

YouTube channel. So, if you'd like to

maintain your privacy, I'll invite you

now to turn off your video and rename

yourself using the tools at the bottom

of the screen. Since we're gathering

online today, a single LAD

acknowledgement doesn't capture the

richness of our many locations. The

Canadian Observatory on Homelessness is

based in York University Toronto and so

we will share their land

acknowledgement. But as always, we

invite all of our guests to consider

their position regarding the land in

which they find

themselves. We acknowledge our presence

on the traditional territory of many

indigenous

nations. The area known as Toronto has

been caretaken by the Anesnabek nation,

the Hodenosi Confederacy, and the Hiron

Wendat. It is now home to many first

nation, Inuit and Matei communities. We

acknowledge the current treaty holders,

the Missasagas of the Credit First

Nation. This territory is subject of the

dish with one spoon wamp belt covenant,

an agreement to peaceibly share and care

for the Great Lakes region. So to kick

us off, each panelist is going to give

us an overview of their work and

highlight some key things about their

background and how they bring that into

landlord engagement before we get into

the interview. Without further ado, I'm

going to invite our first guest to

introduce himself and tell you a little

more about his work. So, everybody,

please join me in welcoming Chris Clay

to the stage. For all of our panelists

today, Chris, Jan, and Leanne, and to

Eric, our host, we look forward to

learning from you. The floor is yours.

Um, thank you, Promise. Uh, thank you

for having me. Um

um as as promised mentioned, my name is

Chris Clay. I work with the Native

Council of Prince Edward Island. Uh our

sole purpose is to support and um to

support all off-reserve indigenous uh

men and women on Prince Edward Island.

Um, I work in housing and homeless

outreach uh through the council as part

of the reaching home project.

Um, I'm here because uh of necessity

basically. Uh, I got heavily involved in

landlord engagement because on Prince

Edward Island uh our vacancy rate is

well under 1% uh most times and rents

have reached just a drastic rates. Uh I

know this is something that's affected

the whole country but we're we're very

small community. Um, a bonus though to

the work that we get to do is I get to

cover the whole province. So unlike a

lot of other service providers that I've

met in the past few years, um, we can

provide uh, entire island coverage. Um,

but it's been a work in progress. Uh, we

work quite handinhand with uh, a

coordinated access committee on Prince

Edward Island. Um we're actually getting

close to 15 to 20 service providers now

that work in this. So we're we're able

to um collaboratively uh look at look at

ways to to solve housing solutions

um avoid shelter stays or get people out

of shelters and into independent housing

or supportive housing.

um the the collaborative approach that

we take uh means that once we do house

people, we are able to provide

wraparound

services. Um and I'm going to keep it

short and that's that's about it for my

introduction. I'll pass it off to Janet.

Thank you,

Clay. Thank you, Chris. Sorry. Yes. So

my name is Jin Jin Bartholomew. I am the

landlord engagement specialist for rest

centers. I am actually a registered

social

worker. And in this experience as a

landlord and engagement coordinator, I

get the opportunity I and it's my role

to find the

housing for the youth that we serve. for

the youth that we

serve.

Um so we work in the region of Peele

which is in Bmpton Ontario Mr.

Kalidon

Alton

and we service the whole of the region

the whole of the region

app to provide

homes through our community landlords

builders for the youths bipok youth

which rest serves. So, rest focuses on

servicing the the youth that are

homeless or experiencing homelessness or

at risk of es experiencing

homelessness. I will talk a little bit

more as we go on, but right now I'll

pass it on to Leanne.

Thank you. Uh, hi everyone. Uh, my name

is Leanne Jesso. I am the manager of

indigenous housing and inclusion at

First Light Friendship Center in St.

John's, Newfoundland. Um we support the

urban indigenous community with um

accessing safe affordable housing. Um

like everyone else have already kind of

mentioned that that is a struggle to try

and keep

um folks housed or to house them. Um we

have a team of intake workers from a

housing perspective. Um case managers

along with um housing support workers

that support the urban indigenous

community with wraparound support

systems. Um we have built strong

relationships with private landlords.

Um really just

basically building that relationship and

being transparent about what we do so

that we're able to have open

communication and dialogue to ensure

that when things are going array that

they have a point in cont.

[Music]

um we see a lot of indigenous um

community members not accessing shelters

due to the layout of the shelter or uh

retra retraumatization

um and and those sorts of things. So, we

really try to do a lot of advocacy and

system navigation. Um, and like I said,

from a from a landlord engagement is

that really trusting relationship

building for us. Um, and ensuring that

we're able to collaborate with

landlords, private landlords. We also

like Chris um do um sit on a coordinated

access uh committee where all community

members or I should say community

organizations within uh urban center get

together once a week to kind of talk

about these issues about keeping people

housed, who needs who needs more

supports, who is chronically homeless,

what can we provide, how can we partner

to ensure that people are staying

housed. Um, and then like everyone else,

right, it's the funding piece and and

and the accessibility

um of the

housing. And I think I'll just leave it

there for now until we get into it a

little bit more. Thank you very much.

And I'm going to pass it on to Erica.

Thanks, Lean. Thanks so much. Thanks so

much to our panel so far for I feel like

sharing just a little piece of your

work. And we're going to hear a little

bit more um over the next little bit.

And hello everyone. If we haven't met

yet, my name is Erikica Morton. I use

she and her pronouns. Uh joining you as

a uninvited guest uh from Hamilton,

Ontario, which is the traditional

territory of the Eerie, the neutral, the

heron, uh the Honosi, and the Missagas.

Um part of the lovely team at the

Canadian Observatory on Homelessness and

also your host. Uh which basically means

I just have some questions. We have sort

of a semi-guided discussion coming up.

I'm going to take us through the

questions and invite our panelists all

to respond. Um, and yeah, that's that's

me. So, maybe let's kind of keep the

conversation going. And I feel like

we're in really great company with this

panel. We've got a great uh a great

group here from different communities

and working with different sort of uh

groups of people. So really looking

forward to this chat and also just

having some like flashbacks of 10-15

years ago when I was helping to

coordinate a housing first for youth

program and we were just introduced to

this role landlord worker that we had to

hire someone and I knew nothing about

it, nothing about what it meant. Uh and

thankfully had the support of another

organization that had some experience

and and helped us along the way. But I

really feel like I could have used this

panel 10 to 15 years ago to help help

navigate that time. So, um, anyway, so

thanks again to our panelists for for

getting us started and just want to

start off with our first question. And

Chris, you kind of actually mentioned

this in your opening and, um, it really

seems to me that the role, the work

you're all doing, landlord engagement,

is is kind of becoming more of a

necessity when it comes to delivering

housing supports and making sure people

have holistic approach to to housing

support. And obviously, it's important

to eviction prevention. Um, but at the

same time, it's a very distinct and

unique role, I would say, compared to

other roles in the in the housing and

homelessness sector. Um, and I would

gather that it's, you know, not

something that people necessarily take a

course or go to school to become a

landlord worker or a navigator, whatever

your title is. Um, and so I guess what

I'm guessing is that for you all and

maybe for other folks on this call, you

know, it's meant that getting involved

in landlord engagement work has been a

pretty deliberate and intentional sort

of step that you've taken um and

something that you thought was really

valuable for you to be doing um again in

terms of providing holistic supports for

folks at risk or who are experiencing

homelessness. So, can you tell me, you

kind of got into this, but can you tell

us a little bit more about kind of what

led you to getting involved in doing

landlord engagement work? Um, and what

were the issues that you were kind of

seeing, observing, or that you're still

seeing that, you know, showed you that

this is important work to do? Um, and so

maybe maybe Chris, I'll go back over to

you because I feel like you kind of

opened up with this a little bit, but

maybe you can start us off and then we

can go Janet and then Leanne.

Well, I I got into it and and I

mentioned it in my opening and you kind

of brought it up. It it's just purely

out of necessity. Um we we were seeing

our shelters fill up and and our our

coordinated access group was seeing more

and more names come to the table and

there there's so much competition for

housing. Uh we're we're coming into the

summer months, so so we're competing

with with tourist dollars. Uh in in the

fall and winter, it's a lot of students

come come to the island for our

university and our college. So there

there's always competition for the few

units that we have. And we've got a

fairly healthy immigration program on

the island. So we realized

that well when CO happened we saw a lot

of evictions and and landlords really

took advantage of people having a rough

time and struggling with work closures

and school closures and stuff like that.

So that's where on the island we we saw

a big jump and we realized early on that

we had to find a way to to tackle the

evictions because our shelters were

filling up. our community outreach

center um was was at capacity and we

were seeing um tent encampments pop up

all over the city. So through through

our our weekly meetings um different

outreach workers and teams that that

that I work with on the island, we we've

all kind of adapted this this reaching

out to landlords and we do it in a way,

you know, to to try and be the middleman

and that way uh misunderstandings are

dealt with.

Um we we we try and act as a way to do

everything that we can to prevent losing

that home. Uh be because once someone

comes into the system, it's really hard

to get them housed again and it's just

because of rental rates are so high and

there there's so few available units

here. Pass that on.

That's great. Thanks, Kristen. And

that's quite an array of different

factors that led you to getting into

this work. Thanks for giving us a little

taste of those. Sorry, Janet, over to

you.

Thank you. So, the way that I would say

that I got involved is um prior to being

a landlord engagement coordinator, I

worked as a a VAW counselor. So I

counseledled women and children for many

years that were experiencing

uh abuse or you know um trauma, domestic

violence and within that

role, this was also a black organization

and within that role a lot of my clients

were very young. They were very young

and going through uh domestic violence

or just trying to get out of it, get

themselves back together. But some of

them most as women was a woman's

program. But um a lot of them at a very

young age were already having by 20 they

were already having like three or four

children with nobody to support them

because those relationships weren't

uh they weren't strong relationships.

But one of the things that I recognized

as to why they were involved to begin

with, why they got into this um

situation was because sometimes and a

lot of the times actually it was because

of housing

insecurity.

So whether it be because of a breakdown

in the relationship at home to begin

with or or maybe you know some people

experience homelessness. It could be

generational and all for black people

for anybody actually. It could be

generational. The parents could have

been having um a hard time just

managing. So, you know, and it just

trickles on. It could be

through not having the parents or or

it's refugees,

newcomers, just about anybody. But a lot

of the representation was basically

uh women that were being in abusive

situations or going through trauma or

breakdown in family family

relationships. So that was I consider

like the VAW uh violence against women

sector. It's problem solving, solution

focused, but dealing with an

organization such as rest centers, it's

a preventative measure because now we're

getting them earlier. We deal with youth

that are 16 to 24 years old. So, we're

getting to them a bit before they're

still experiencing trauma because

they're homeless. And you know, of

course, anybody that is experiencing

homelessness or even at risk of being

homelessness, that's on itself trauma.

They're experiencing trauma.

So to me getting involved at this level

and especially because now the housing

crisis made it even worse that we're

being able to prevent some of the people

that the VAW sector would be

seeing because now we're getting them

before we're getting them before and

housing them reaching out. So I reach

out to the community landlords or

developers or uh property

managers to acquire these housing for

these youth. And that to me is is is

just a tremendous and such a variable

and impactful position to have because

you know I get to see the results as

well. So but I'll pass it on to Leon and

that continue taking up all the time.

Thank you.

Um, so First Light started housing

support services back in 2019. Um, and

at the beginning when we weren't in so

much of a housing crisis, we were just

housing people and because we were

learning as we go and and consulting, we

were just housing people and then

stepping away and taking on new people.

And we quickly found out that that does

not work. uh because what was happening

was that we were housing people and then

people were getting evicted. Um so we

kind of had to reinvent the wheel a

little bit and be like, "Okay, what is

different?" And one of the things that

we quickly found out was that we needed

to um have more case management support

where case managers could go into uh

units um and meet with the the community

members to support them with their life

skills.

um a and building relationships with the

landlord so that when things should

arise we could quickly jump in and try

and resolve the issue before an eviction

um was to take place similar to Chris

there. Um but it was also the fact that

it's bridging the gap basically for us.

Um, so as we know, indigenous folks are

more likely to be homeless or experience

homelessness um than non-indigenous

peoples. And when you're in a urban

center that you're not

um familiar with, you're you're not

technically from an indigenous

perspective, you might not be familiar

with, well, what is a lease? Um what

does it mean to be evicted? like not

understanding those pieces in

conjunction with language barriers,

cultural differences and all those

pieces. So I think it really we were

able to recognize that very quickly and

we were able to build lasting positive

relationships within community with

private landlords um to to really just

be transparent. I think transparency is

key for a lot of the work that we do. a

lot of advocacy, but also being open

with the landlord and understanding the

cultural differences and um as

indigenous people, you know, sometimes

when we when we see our our own people

from our home communities struggling and

we have housing, um one of our things is

like, well, come stay with me, even

though I'm I might only be living in a

in a bachelor apartment. Um, but I have

like three people that I know are from

my home community and they're homeless

and they're not accessing shelter,

whether it's because of their personal

preference or whether it's because

shelters are over capacity. Um, and then

that was a leading cause to evictions

happening, right? So just being able to

be fully transparent with the landlord

and and um ensuring that they understand

the language uh or the indigenous way of

knowing and being and what it means to

be housed. Um really supported our

initiative to ensure that we're we're uh

trying the best we can to combat

indigenous homelessness. Um and I I can

say that you know discrimination is a

big part as well. Um when you have um

you know 100 people fighting over one or

competing I should say over one

apartment for example because there's

not very many. Um you know it

discrimination does hold a factor there

and we've really had to work through

that. Um because oftentimes the

indigenous person is more likely than

not in terms of not getting the

apartment right like and that was a big

thing for us. Um but through connection

and through growth I think um we're able

to see positive um change happening um

with landlord engagement and that all

starts with having those conversations

and that big transparency piece I think.

Thank you. That's great. Thanks everyone

and um definitely hearing a lot about

and not talking to anyone on this panel

or on this call but obviously that it

sounds like a driving factor for all of

you at least one of the key ones has

been obviously the the sore lack of

housing in the market but then you also

touched on so many other factors you

each kind of pulled in different lens

that you were coming into this work you

kind of listed a whole list of ways that

you know housing is is competitive out

in PEI and Janon touching on trauma um

and the need to kind of focus on

prevention And Leanne really appreciate

you touching on the importance of

holistic supports including people

needing case management and cultural

supports um and getting into a little

bit about we'll talk about this later

about you know what it what it takes to

then bridge that bridge I think is going

to be a common word on this panel but

bridge that with the landlords that

you're that you're working with. So oh I

see comments coming up in the chat so it

sounds like people are excited already

at what what we're chatting about. So um

so let's carry on then. So the next

question that questions will kind of

build off each other is um and maybe

we'll start with you Leanne because I

feel like you were kind of getting into

this a little bit, but we'd love to hear

and I'm sure folks on this call are are

curious to know about sort of the

dayto-day like the practical the reality

of the work and what it looks like when

you're out there doing your thing. Um

and so can you can you tell us what does

the day-to-day of your jobs look like?

um you know and if you can identify

perhaps um some of the specific or you

unique ways that you approach your work

with landlords or engaging with

landlords kind of reflecting on the fact

that again you're all working with um

specific sort of groups of people

whether it's indigenous communities or

sort of black youth just want to hear if

you have sort of specific approaches to

your landlord engagement and then also

the three-parters if you need me to

repeat the question at all don't be shy

uh if you can address also some of the

unique barriers that you have to deal

with and overcome in your work which I

think some of you definitely touched on

this but yeah maybe Leanne if we want to

start with you this time and then we can

circle we can circle back Jan and then

Chris.

Yeah. Yeah. So in terms of dayto-day I

think every day looks different. Um it

depends on what's happening in the day

for pe for folks. um you know our

community members all present in

different challenges, different ways. Um

so it's really important for our team to

first build trusting relationships with

the community

um so that we can support them from a

true holistic healing approach, you

know, and supporting them on their

healing journey. So a lot of times at

first when we're before we even get to

anywhere it's like building that

relationship so that we can approach the

work in a meaningful way um that is

based on their cultural need or specific

need

whatever.

So you know a day could be you know if

someone's presenting here and they're

homeless for example well then our first

step is to ensure that they have

documentation because you they can't get

anywhere without that um an ID

um what's available in

community and then from there it's more

like who do we have on our list cuz we

kind of have a list of landlords that we

always tend to reach out to first

because they've been

so easy to work with because you know I

will say that I feel like sometimes it's

more of a money grab for landlords but

recognizing that um they are serving a

need for community um we we go through

the list and we see you know we ask the

questions to our community members as to

like what does housing mean to

you? What is culturally important when

you're searching for housing? Is it to

be around a wooded area? Is it to be by

a body of water? Um, what does it mean

to you? And from there, we're able to

move into, okay, well, which which

landlord are we going to see get if

that's an opportunity? Um, and then it's

just like, okay, what are struggles?

What has been affecting your housing?

Um, and is it like is there traum is

there trauma there that we need to get

you connected with an indigenous

counselor? Is it substance use? Okay.

Well, we provide peer support, substance

use and prevention uh support group. So,

is it that? So, you know, it's just

really figuring out all those pieces

first before we can even start engaging

with landlords and and securing housing.

Um the second part to that was what

unique challenges is it?

Yeah. Sorry. So um touching on sort of

your day-to-day work, what are some of

the unique challenges or barriers that

you um confront or have to deal with

given the the folks that you work with

and support? Yeah, I think the barriers

a lot of barriers for us is like, you

know, we support a large um indigenous

population that are more used to rural

communities. So, they're not used to

signing a lease or they doesn't they

don't understand what an eviction is.

Um they don't really they've lived with

family where there's like eight of them

living in one unit, right? So they're

not understanding how to maintain

um because they have never really had to

do it before. Um so you know

first I think that is a big challenge

and a barrier because it ultimately you

know causes evictions if we don't step

in to place right um and then they're

signing for leases that they don't even

know what they're signing up for. So

trying to explain that to landlords

that, you know, sitting down, we have to

sit down with this person first. We

can't just be signing leases and them

not fully understanding what they're

signing up for. Um is one thing. Um

again, I think discrimination is a big

thing. We see it all the time. Um and

landlords are very discriminatory.

Um and you know as indigenous workers as

well supporting our indigenous community

it oftentimes leads to retraumatization

in different ways for both staff and

community members that we're supporting.

So really just having a

strong, you

know, you have to be like strong willed

or strong minded to ensure that you're,

you know, you're able to step away and

not um let those pieces affect you um is

key. Advocacy, system

navigation, that's a thing that we do

all the time. It's a day-to-day thing,

but it's also very challenging and um

there's substantial barriers because

what we see in terms of system

navigation is the fact that you know we

have all these systems such as like

income support and housing corporations

and you know mental health and

addictions, rental subsidies for folks

that can avail of it. But the

documentation process, the wait times

are so long, it it almost doesn't serve

the community that are using it. And

then you have to look at more of like

okay, we have income support that you

know the it hasn't increased like the

the the amount of money that they

receive hasn't increased in so many

years, but

inflation they're not able to sustain

their housing. they're not able to

afford it or they don't eat, right? So,

it's like fighting with systems that are

ideally designed to support vulnerable

populations, but it it really doesn't,

you know, um or they do, but you just

need to go elsewhere to try and find

additional resources so that folks can,

you know, fully maintain their housing

and afford their rent and afford to eat.

Um, so I think that, you know, is the

biggest thing and with housing stability

comes

healing and it kind of goes hand in

hand. Um, and once we can get our

landlords understanding that piece, it

makes everything else so much easier.

Thank you. That's amazing. Thanks,

Leanne. Yes, I you know definitely hear

all the the work you're doing on the

ground, but you're up against so many

systems and structures all at play

around you. It's a bit mindboggling. Um

Janet, maybe we can go over to you now.

Yeah. You know, everything that Leanne

said and more. So at rest and I should

mention that

rest we're

actually the only B3 organization in the

region of Peele and surrounding areas

that is to so we're totally focused on

on um serving bipok youth.

So you know with that being said you

know we know that by bipok youth face

specific challenges and structural

barriers to housing. So we develop

culturally appropriate

approaches to support to support these

youth and we aim to create conditions

and an environment where they could

build their confidence and families can

heal as Leanne mentioned and communities

could also do their part in supporting

the growth and and uh stability of these

you

uh the questions challenges, right?

Yeah. So, um Janet, you're off to a

great start. Just keep going. We're just

trying to get a sense of what sort of

the dayto-day looks like in your work

and specific approaches that you take.

And then if you want to roll into that,

you know, it's a three-parter. If you

want to roll into that, you know, in

your day-to-day work, what are the

challenges and barriers that you have to

to work through?

Well, I could tell you with the

challenges definitely because we

encounter so many unique challenges that

um stem direct from the needs of the

clients and the community that because

often you find individuals that with

histories of homelessness, they have

trauma, exploitation. some of the the

youth they might be coming from um the

youth centers being uh juvenile centers

or being incarcerated and these these

present barriers to getting traditional

access to uh housing. So another

significant challenge is also overcoming

the stigmas and the hesitation from

landlords. So many of the landlords are

are usually initially they're very

reluctant to rent to tenants who don't

meet the conventional

criterias you know such as having a

stable income a clean rental history or

strong

credits. Uh some of the some of the

youth a high uh portion of these youth

as well we're not forgetting the some of

the landlords might be homophobic. a lot

of the youths would represent the queer

community, the LGBTQ plus community as

well. So, we have all of these different

uh stigmas and and barriers to overcome

in in finding stable um homes for these

youth. So part of my role would actually

involve building the relationships and

the trust with the landlords and

advocating on behalf of the clients you

know and and addressing their concerns

with transparency as well very

transparently. And another challenge as

as well would be the the lack of

affordable and flexing and flexible

housing options as Chris mentioned.

I mean it's everywhere, yes, but it's

worse now since COVID and the housing

crisis and and that just makes it even

more difficult for for these youth. So

this often involves a lot of

negotiation, a lot of mediation and

reassurances. You know, we have the

ongoing case management and tenant

supports that's always available. And I

should mention that our service is also

a whole wraparound service. So they they

offered um counseling as well. We have

other programs that would teach life

skills and so they would learn to cook,

financial literacy,

uh tenant education, tenant education.

Then there's the job skills. We also

have the firm which is the family

intervention reunification management um

program. So this would support the

families if there's a breakdown with the

family that we have the workers that

would actually go you know do the

conflict resolution and meditation med

mediation and uh or youth family

counseling. So there's a lot of and

build the

supports and networks around that youth.

So sometimes you know they're able to to

mend that relationship as well. So I

would say that you know that I have to

approach

um every engagement with with a

trauma-informed

lens and you know because our our

clients could could be highly sensitive

to the power dynamics the housing

inequality or or just even previous

experiences of

exploitation. So in this role I would

say I would serve as a lesion to to

ensure that uh the communication between

the landlords and the tenants is

respectful and

constructive and solution focused if

anything is you know was to come up.

uh is also just as

important in placing a youth in a home

when placing a you know because we also

have to think

of how they're going to fit in and as I

mentioned before you know it depends

everybody's situation each

individual situation is individual to

them uh their personality every

everything is individual to them so so

it is

Being able to look at this objectively

without judgment, but at the same time,

you're placing a youth in an

environment that they would feel

comfortable in as well that they would

be able to to be, you know, to nurture

whatever goals they have and to grow. I

always look at it as, you know, our

youth being

um our future. our future. If they don't

have a house over their head, if they

don't have a roof, they don't have a

place to sleep. They're going through

all this

trauma, what is going to happen for

those to come? They're the ones that we

have to rely on to continue. And it it

really doesn't matter color of the skin

or where they come from. Every youth has

a right to to be in house and to have

stable housing and to be safe and

comfortable.

So, you know, it's very challenging, but

it's very rewarding at the same time to

do this this type of work.

That's amazing. Thanks, J. You brought

in so many good tidbits into your into

your approach as a housing is a right,

trauma-informed care solutions focused.

Um I'm hearing from all of you actually

the really importance of yes we need

this landlord um engagement role but

also the holistic and the and the um you

know the comprehensive wraparound

supports that you guys all do so well.

That's fantastic. Thank you. Uh Chris,

over to you. And if you need me to

reread this three-part question that we

threw at you, don't be shy.

No. Uh my day today, it's kind of like

Leanne. Every day is different. Uh you

never know what you're going to expect.

Um I I wear a couple of hats though at

the council. So I usually spend my

mornings um doing network or or any of

those interactions that I need to do and

in the afternoons I spend doing um

street outreach and and home visits. So

that's a big part of the wraparound

supports that we we provide is is an

actual like presence at the door. Um, I

have a handful of clients that are in a

provincial supporting supportive housing

program and we've seen a lot of success

with them. But one of the biggest parts

of the success is is

um at least seeing them once a week, you

know, just meeting with the landlord,

meeting with them, uh, and and just

resolving any issues.

Um, you know, uh, another good point

that that Leanne talked about was, um,

just just the way indigenous households

are set up. Uh, we a lot of people

think, you know, oh, well, you're

dealing with the homeless community.

It's really easy. Just just get them an

apartment and move them in. But uh the

there there's the system systematic

abuses that have been suffered by the

indigenous community o over the years

and a lot of broken homes and broken

families whether it's through the

residential schools or the the 60s scoop

or or the modern day like CPS breaking

up families. So, you know, where where a

lot of people just learn those little

tidbits of life, uh, often times in the

community that I that we work in, you

know, those little pieces of of life

were just never taught. They were never

there. You know, if you come from a

broken home or a home with addiction,

uh, and we all know the indigenous

community suffers high rates of of

addiction and mental health issues.

So, so we're trying to house people

that, you know, we fully just expect

like here's your keys, you're going to

be fine. And and that's why I feel

there's a major push for for the

wraparound supports and services and and

we see a lot of success. Um, so like I

mentioned in the mornings there's a lot

of uh networking, referrals,

uh, you know, we we address the needs.

um in house at the council. We have

different programs that provide uh elder

supports uh you know um c cultural

supports that people probably never had

before. You know simple things like re

reclaiming their language um drumming

and music because we we find the therapy

and community is brought together

through through food, music and and

storytelling. And and once we get people

together, our different program

coordinators work on, you know,

budgeting skills. Uh we we have a

regular program. We have a wonderful

family service program uh called SAFE.

And the the coordinator often once once

a week in the different areas on the

island, we'll we'll have a community

meal. And not only will it be a way to

bring members of the community together

and talk about issues, but she's also

talking like budgeting and healthy diet

and and all of that is combined with

this this fantastic program. So, a lot

of our work is, you know, connecting the

the homeless or just newly housed or

struggling um clients on our list to the

proper supports that they need. And you

know, the more collaborative and and

wraparound supports we have, I find the

more success that that that we're

seeing.

That's great. So really taking it home

with those holistic supports for folks

and that yes, while we need you uh

amazing skilled folks to talk to the

landlords and to be the I think some of

the words I've heard so far mediator,

negotiator, um all those kinds of

things, at the same time folks need a

whole community of supports around them

and a community of people to be attached

to. So great and seeing lots of great

chat in the in the chat. So can't wait

to get to that part. But let's get to

our our next question. And like just as

we're as you're chatting and I'm

listening um you know one of the things

that I'm mindful of is that again we've

talked about that I think that the

landlord engagement worker role is is

pretty unique. it's pretty intentional,

but at the same time, I feel I feel like

I'm making a bit of sort of an

assumption here that it's more common

that it's it the work is happening more

and more sort of in the sector. And so

we're seeing folks like Janon that have

a dedicated position and they are that

is their role, but then also staff just

kind of in other roles like a housing

worker or a case worker that are just

kind of picking up and doing this

landlord engagement work along the way

or I feel like folks like maybe Chris I

feel like this is kind of what I learned

from you is like your role started in

one way but now a lot of it's around the

landlord engagement stuff. So, you know,

and I I sense that, you know, this has

become the case when we think about what

you've all touched on as our social

context, aka the source or lack of

affordable, deeply affordable housing

that would address the folks, especially

folks in core housing need. And so,

unfortunately, this means that right now

we just have to work with what we have

and make best with what we have in terms

of the housing stock. And that means

trying to keep people in the housing

they have, which is affordable um or at

least more affordable than if they got

evicted and had to go somewhere else and

get rehoused at this stage of the game.

So having to make do with what we have

um is one thing, but then also and and I

I feel like maybe um Leanne you touched

on this. I mean also wanting to make

sure that we are sort of bridging

between bridging to the landlords that

do see that they have a role uh they

have you know they have an asset they

have housing and they want to maybe be a

part of uh you know addressing

homelessness that's going on in their

community and so we want to bring those

folks in as as partners or collaborators

and help them to really see their role

in homelessness prevention. Um and so

you know want to hear from you a little

bit about you know based on your

experiences what does it take to build

and sustain because that's the tricky

part is to sustain things uh

relationships between landlords and

tenants and just relationships with

landlords in general. Um because I feel

like it's a bit tricky and it definitely

takes some skill. And I was going to

actually like Jana when we chatted uh

like in our prep chat, you had talked

about some of the neat stuff that you're

doing at rest in terms of like bringing

landlords together. And I wonder if we

can start off with you. I mean, you can

answer the question however you want.

I'm not going to tell you how to answer

this question, but um I just just the

stuff you shared about what you're doing

at rest. I haven't heard stuff like that

before. So I wonder if we can actually

maybe start with you and then go to

Chris and then Leanne.

So, so with landlords, I mean

relationship, the power of relationship

building, you know, trust is

everything, whether it's with the

landlords or property management or with

your clients. You know, the long-term

success depends on your ability to build

an authentic and reliable relationship.

advoc advocacy also is is a skill and a

and a responsibility and it's very

necessary. So you know we have to

develop strong advocacy skills as

well and of course you know you have to

be flexible and able to solve every

problem that comes along you know

problem solving as well. So in engaging

landlords, one of the things that we do

at rest as well is, you know, we have

workshops with with with landlords and

we also do outreach at the same time. So

we we sort of it's a bit of a

collaboration between the two. You know,

you bring the landlords that you have

because we're in the region of Peele

and it is difficult. I'm not saying that

it's not difficult elsewhere, but it it

is extremely difficult for for black

youth to get into housing as I mentioned

before because of the stigmas and and

all and the

stereotyping. So, we bring the community

together with some of the with the

landlords and of course, you know, it's

we control the amount of people that we

have. So maybe about 25 or 30 people at

a time, but a

mixture. And we have the training and

the outreach at the same time. So the

the the landlords that we have which are

not easy to

get they're actually able to talk to the

community some of the community members

because the comm people who come in out

you know because they're curious they

have the properties but with everything

that's going on now with some you know

people not paying rent people not um and

living in the properties landlord and

landlords are losing their homes because

they can't occupy it and the landlord

and tenant board takes so long to

process. So they're actually looking at

ways as people are now scared, but

they're looking at ways of how can they

still rent, get the money and the

property be safe at the same time. So

there's a lot of curiosity that comes

and you know the the fact that they know

that the income would be stable with us.

So they're interested. You get the

interest because they know that they're

going to get the the money. But when

they when they get here and now they're

they're able to interact directly with a

landlord who's already in with rest as a

rest landlord who's already a rest

landlord. So So you see now you can

literally look at how they interact

because while you're training you're

doing the workshops and you're training

but now they're seeing they they have

the direct it's not just what I am

seeing. they're able to interact

directly with somebody that's already

involved and they hear firsthand what it

is like being a wrestler landlord. So

then they get to find out well yes you

know they rarely do house meetings

because we don't just put a client in

and leave them. It's a whole wraparound

service. We have house coordinators that

go in they do house meetings to make

sure that property is maintained. They

make sure that the youth is maintaining

the environment. and they're doing

everything that the landlord

would like to be done had they been in

that house if it you know they treat it

as their own. So they get to find out

from the other landlords as well

that you know their money is guaranteed

the payment is always guaranteed. So now

you it's like hey you know the youth we

don't even have to interact to any great

extent with the youth if we think

there's something wrong we just call the

landlord engagement coordinator or the

landlord engagement specialist and that

would be me I interact directly with the

landlords the landlord there's never any

cause for conflict between the landlord

and the tenant we have the housing

coordinators and the case managers that

the youth would if they think they have

an an issue or they have a problem

whether it's among themselves or they

think that the landlord did something

they didn't like they would talk to the

case manager or the housing coordinator

if it's about the landlord the housing

coordinator would come to me and there

we go I would deal with the landlord

whatever you know and so we have that

whole service right there so so we avoid

the conflict between the landlord and

the tenant we mediate and we solve

it. So the whole dynamics this is how we

draw landlords

in. This is one of the methods that we

use to draw landlords in. It is not

easy. It is not easy. So you know we

always have to be coming up with ways um

or finding ways to to engage the

community. Of course, now when they get

to see they hear the impact stories, we

would have um in one impact stories and

they get to hear some of the youth

that's been in this process and gone

through the our service and what they

learned, how they felt, whether it was

the trauma, how they got the counseling,

what they went through, the support that

they would have gotten from their case

managers, whether it was to go to

school, encourage them to go to school,

been there right at, you know, right

through, go to their graduation with

them because They have nobody else. So

all of this they get to see firsthand.

They see what it is that being

involved. It's not just about them

getting their money. It's also about the

future of our youth. It's also the

impact on the community and impact on

the society as a whole. So the interest

builds from there. And you know nearly

every meeting you get at least the next

one coming in. Hey, or if I'm not ready

yet, but I will like to be arrest

landlord. What more could you want to

ask for from that? Like what as a

landlord, what would be your

disadvantage? What would really be the

disadvantage? We break down the barriers

of course that I deal with the changing

the perspective because we know that

you're thinking that you know maybe the

the black youths they they don't have

income. They're probably stealing or in

gangs or they you know a lot of

stereotyping goes on. And one of the

quickest way that you could get a

landlord to

realize rarely and truly if you can't

pay your

mortgage, I mean, look at how the

interest rates went up. When the

interest rates went up, the people that

bought at high

prices, their payments went

up. So, some of them, you know, they

went from paying 1,200. I had one um

landlord that went from to

$3,000 and they couldn't do it.

So what what happened? How did they

feel? So some of them talked about how

stressful they nearly lost their house.

You know what they had to do to get to

to be able to to

survive. So if you feel like this and

you own a property, you have you're

gainfully employed, how is a youth going

to feel? Somebody that's 17 years old

that doesn't have an

income does not know where he's going to

sleep when it's minus 25 or minus 30

outside depending where you're

from. They have no idea what it is. What

do they have to do to be able to to keep

warm and safe at that age? How are they

going to manage? They don't work

anywhere. They don't they're not capable

yet. They're not able yet to to get a

proper job to support themselves. If you

experiencing stress, stress is trauma

because that stress you could some

people get high blood pressure. Some

people might even have a heart attack

because they're so stressed out because,

you know, they're holding holding all of

this um inside and they can't they can't

manage. How how would a youth feel? How

would a young person who has not fully

matured yet, how would they feel? A lot

of times the landlords say, "Well, they

never thought about it like that. They

never thought every youth that is

experiencing homelessness is traumatized

or if they are even at risk of being

homeless, they're traumatized. It's

trauma because what brought them there?

What brought them to that point and now

they are at that point.

So if you are experiencing trauma and

you're so you own a prop you own

property or properties or you can't pay

your fighting to pay your mortgages you

know or you just might have lost a job

because of whatever happened since co

you know so many businesses closing up

how do you think a youth would feel put

yourself in that position as well you're

mature they're not their brain has not

fully evolved and developed to the way

that it should be. So, you know, it's

it's a lot

uh of how you change you manage to

change the perspectives of the

landlord, let them see from a different

view what really is happening. And you

know, this could be anybody. This could

be anybody.

There's no status. Just like abuse has

no status. Homelessness has no status

because there were people that had that

were rich, had a lot of money, were

having fun, enjoying life, and ended up

homeless.

It could happen anybody. It could be

your child. It could be your brother,

your sister, anybody. So, you know, and

and we go along from there.

And I would guess, Jan, some of those

conversations you're having or many of

the conversations you're having with

landlords about the realities of what

the youth are actually going through are

probably the first time they've actually

had someone ever talk to them about

those realities. So, appreciate you

doing all that incredible advocacy um

for the young people at rest. That's

amazing. Uh and I think there's some

interest to hear more about your

workshops by the way in the chat if I

could see that. So, just a heads up that

might be coming back at you in the Q&A

which we're going to get there soon.

We're going to uh get Chris and uh

Leanne to answer this question and then

one more question which I think we'll

try to just wrap it up quick and then

we'll get to the Q&A. Um so Chris, over

to you. Relationships, landlords,

landlords and tenants. What's your

approach?

Well, it's it's all in building trust.

Um thankfully I I come from a small

town. I I've mentioned it in a few of

our meetings.

Um it

we have that advantage here. Um, most of

the private landlords are I I've hit an

age now where I I grew up with a lot of

them or or you know everybody or um

there's always that six degrees of

separation on the island. So, if you're

trying to find a landlord, you'll know

somebody who knows them.

Um, but a lot of it is is building

building trust. uh pro proving that what

you say you're going to do is is exactly

what you're going to do. Like don't

don't sugarcoat anything. Uh be be

honest and and frank with

landlords. Um I I've learned over the

the the few years that I've been doing

this that that it's the best process.

Um, you know, don't don't be afraid of

having those honest conversations, you

know, with the tenant and with the

landlord.

And, you know, oftent times you'll

you'll I find we work through issues a

lot better that way if you're just

brutally honest, no

matter, you know, for for good or bad.

Uh, and and it helps. And with

landlords, you know, money always helps,

too. you know, I I've I've proven um o

over the few years that if if a tenant

needs that little bit of support and we

can do it, we're we're there. So, that

that's always it's it's like the carrot

in front to to get them to, you know,

that that'll always catch a landlord's

attention if if you have the finances.

But after that, it's in continuing the

relationship. It's just, you know, it's

it's like I started, you just prove that

what you say is what's going to happen

and you're fair and you don't you don't

dismiss the concerns of the landlord.

Um, you know, I know we're we're client

focused and I I'll do anything for my

clients, you know, first and foremost,

but you you can't dismiss the concerns

of of um of of the landlords. And, you

know, with with the indigenous

community, there are preconceived

notions. Um, you know, again, that's a

downfall to living in a small place.

names sometimes carry history with you.

Um but but you just have to have to work

constant communication and proof that

you're working in the right direction

and and yeah, you just have to make sure

that that you follow through on

everything. Um, I did see a question

that I tried to answer in in the chat

there about um big corporate property

companies compared to, you know, little

private landlords. And, you know, we've

seen moderate success with the the

larger companies, but uh I find a small

independent landlord has has a bit more

empathy and compassion.

uh there there it's a lot easier to go

into your community and go, "Well, hey,

you know, we we all grew up in this

neighborhood and we're just trying to

help keep our neighbors and and and our

our friends kids off the street." So,

it's a lot easier I find with the

corporate um property managers, they

often just well this is our guide book

and this is how we're going to follow it

and you know there's no leniency like

even if you do step in financially I

could call a private landlord and say

look I can get you the rent but it's

going to be a week. Are you cool with

that? For the most part they are. But

when you call the cor corporate like the

corporate property companies, they're

like, "No, no, our rules say it's been

five days. If you can't do it within

this, then then they have to be out."

And and I find there's a lot less wiggle

room when when you're negotiating with

the the bigger

corporations. And on that, I'll pass it

to Leah.

Thank you.

Um I think for us so we are also uh

funded through reaching home with the

indigenous stream and it provides more

um I guess you know we're able to pay

for damages to units. We're able to pay

first month's rent damage deposit on

time. We're able to pay for a rare. So

that is a big benefit in terms of

building relationships uh with landlords

because they know that we tell them

upfront like listen if there's a door

broken we'll repair it.

Um rent shouldn't be late but if it is

please let me know and and we'll get it

rectified right. Um so we're able to do

those things which I think is a is a

great benefit in terms of landlord

engagement and building the

relationship. Um what I will say is that

like Chris, uh relationship building is

key. Uh forming that trusting

relationship. Um we also provide

landlords with cultural diversity

training uh from um which is directly

related to indigenous housing and

homelessness and what that means um for

indigenous folks. So you know we do

provide landlords with that training so

that they are more culturally aware. Um

also

we even though we do all these things

sometimes people can still get an

eviction notice right. Um so what we try

to do is we have incorporated circle of

support um into our um eviction and

prevention shelter diversion um um

realm. And so what that means is

normally

we'll speak with the landlord, see if

they're open to coming in circle. Um

same thing with the community member.

We'll speak to them and nor normally our

relationships are so good um that we

actually they are successful and

everyone agrees to come in circle and

what happens is uh we come in circle.

the tenant is there, the community

member, a support worker from first lady

attendance along with the the landlord,

and we normally get an elder from the

same community or the same cultural

background as the community member that

we're supporting. Um, and we all sit in

circle and just have like everyone is

equal in circle. So, we have very open,

transparent conversations and we either,

you know, have a smudge like the hulik.

Um, and we're able to sit in space and

have open conversation. And that's where

we really see the true relationship

building between the the tenant and the

landlord because the landlord is hearing

firsthand the struggles of the tenant.

Whether it be like, you know, historical

trauma, um, intergenerational trauma,

the fact that, you know, the struggle of

coming to an urban community and not

being able to be close to family, you

know, certain things like that, um,

addictions and and substance use and

what have you, mental health issues, and

so and then, yeah, so they're able to

see firsthand and have that true

transparent conversation. And then the

landlord also opens up a bit what their

struggles are and how can we kind of

resolve this. So we all come in there

with you know some dialogue and kind of

background and you know the elder is

there to support the community member um

and giving them encouragement to you

know open up because it's very hard for

an indigenous person to open up

generally speaking. Um, so having those

uh trusting conversations sometimes are

hard, especially when it's someone

that's trying to evict you and the

probably the relationship isn't always

the greatest. Um, but getting that

background piece has been so

successful and by the end of it, we have

a solution. Whether it means like first

light the support worker is going to

commit to and the community member is

going to commit to letting a support

worker go into their house 3 days a week

or whatever that looks like. You know,

if if their unit if they're getting

evicted because of, you know, there's

two the space isn't clean, then we're

going to get a cleaner to go in and

clean the space. and we're going to

ensure that we're showing up each time

to help them with that process and

showing them how to do it. If they can't

afford cleaning supplies, we're we're

providing that to them. Um, so, you

know, at the end of it all, it normally

works out and the landlord kind of most

times takes back the eviction, you know,

and says, "Okay, well, you know, we're

we're going to we're going to take away

the eviction. We're going to start new.

We you know, we're on a good footing

ground." And you know it builds

relationships in all forms whether it's

within organizations and landlords

whether it's um whether it's the tenant

and the landlord. So it's a very very

powerful moment and we've had success

rate with both private landlords and

corporate landlords by doing

that. That's incredible and thanks for

sharing that. I had no idea you guys did

such that

intentional yeah relationship building

work. And I mean you all touched on

different ways about how I think what

I'm hearing in terms of relationship

building that the trust is there but

also the showing up. Um and just the

different ways you're all showing up

whether it's hosting landlords in your

space together or pulling folks together

for a circle of support. Um these are

really incredible sort of ways to again

and I think it's yeah you're really

doing great work in sustaining those

relationships and once you've got

landlords that are you know wanting to

work with you you're doing almost like

this interesting work of like bridging

like business and like social work kind

of together which again so distinct and

so so unique. So, thanks so much um for

for shedding some light and I suspect

folks are going to definitely want to

hear more about that stuff um and see if

they can kind of share those practices

in their own work. Um okay, we are

getting down to the wire here. So, let's

do this last question. um which uh maybe

we'll try to keep it sort of shortish um

sort of uh we'll do our best but um uh

and this is sort of like advice that you

guys can give or some guidance because

no doubt there's folks on this call that

are doing landlord work or they're

thinking about doing landlord work or

they're trying their best at it but just

really want some more info and support

and I would gather that there like you

all on the panel probably when you

started into this work there wasn't a

reference guide or a handbook or a full

Yeah, I'm seeing the head nods. Like

you've probably had to build and I know

Jan and we talked about this too. You've

probably had to build this role out as

you kind of go along and and figure it

out as you go. So wondering if you can

tell us a little bit about um what it's

looked like for you to build out this

role as you go and you know I don't know

what would you want to see if there was

such a thing um such as a landlord

engagement manual or toolkit like you

know what are some of the pieces of

advice basically or guidance you'd offer

to people as to you know how how they

can move forward in terms of trying to

build out a role like the work you're

doing. So, I'll just open up to whoever

wants to jump in with that one maybe.

Oh, Jan's already like, I have some

ideas. So, take take it away, Janet.

Yeah, you called my name a couple times.

That's why. Oh, sorry.

The um in landlord outreach and

engagement. I I think for that manual

that you're going to create, I if you

could possibly put in there how to

identify and and approach, you know,

potential housing partners would

probably help would um probably help for

me. One of I think I had a um a little

bit of an advantage apart from working

working in in in this type of doing this

type of work. I am also a landlord. So I

do understand from a landlord's

perspective

like when I first migrated to this um to

this company to this

country I was also renting so I was a

tenant at one time before I became a a

homeowner. So I've had experiences from

on both ends on on both sides and still

now still as um working but still a

landlord as well. So that actually helps

a lot for me. So for that manual that

you that you're going to create, Erica,

you know,

it's there would be a lot of training, I

guess, because you would have to to also

know about the landlord and tenant act.

Some of it uh, you know, would have to

be in there as well. so that they would

know, they have to learn that because if

you're going out finding

places, you you have to be

aware of the rules and the

laws. But

um matching clients, maybe if you could

put in there a guide matching matching

clients with the housing, how you go

about that and placing because everybody

is different. Uh it's

a this is a big community that I am in.

Bmpton itself

is roughly nearly

800,000. Missaga

is about a million and then there's

Kalidan and and things. So, so roughly,

you know, it's probably nearly 2 million

people. 48% around 48% would be

bipunk and experiencing homeland. 45%

experiencing homeless. It's a very large

amount of use that we have to

um to

house.

So documentation for your paperwork

always important. So as I mentioned

before, understanding the fair housing

laws and the landlord and tenant rights.

There was so much that they they got to

learn, but you know, do it from your

heart. Be nonjudgmental. I think if

somebody is listening and they want to

be in this, it's something that I think

that you should want to do. You should

have a passion for

it, be able to

empathize, you know, but do it from your

heart. That's great. Yeah, go for it.

Yeah. Yeah, I think I'll jump in. Um

yeah, definitely like you know attentive

uh trauma informed, client- centered for

sure.

Um advocacy, transparency is all great

skills to have. Um and you know, I think

the big thing too

is you know your community the best. Um

and you know the landlords that you're

working with. So if like doing that

community needs assessment um is very

important and getting community

engagement and feedback um we're big on

that. Um so hearing from the community

as to what their needs are and also once

you build the relationships with

community it's also more like okay well

can that person live in a communal space

for example and if we know that they

can't do that then we're just not going

to place them in there anyway. it

doesn't matter if there's a housing

space or not because it's not going to

be any good to anyone at that point and

we also don't want to burn the bridge

with and a good relationship with the

landlord right so I think it's just

those pieces are very important um

ensuring that we're working from a

culturally safe trauma-informed lens is

always needed we got that holistic

services um and support that repar

support system

um and you know um definitely having

open communication with everyone in the

room. I don't like speaking uh unless

they want me to, but you know, I don't

want to be speaking for for our

community members. I want them to have a

voice and to be able to um speak to

directly to the landlords. Now, times

when landlords are getting to us and

being like, "Listen, we have like three

broken windows and two doors and this

needs to be fixed." Yes, they're going

to call us directly. They're not going

to have that conversation with the with

the tenant, right? But, you know,

building that

transparent relationship is is key for

us. That sounds great. And I would

gather in those in that communication, a

part of that, too, is being willing to

have like uncomfortable and awkward

conversations, you know, where there

might be some feelings attached to that

like Yeah. And and talking through that,

right? Yeah. Yeah. From a positive lens

and a supportive lens, whether it's for

the landlord, you know, like we're

landlords, too. We have transitional

housing spaces. We have affordable

housing. So, we we get it just like Jane

said, like we get what it means to also

be the landlord. Um, but you know, our

first and foremost is always client-

centered, client support.

That's

great. Chris, over to you. Close us out

here. Well, I just um I I would make

sure that people realize it's all trial

and error. You know, this isn't

something Well, as we're talking about

now, it it there are no lessons for it.

So, you have to realize that it's not

going to be, you know, a home run every

time and and don't beat yourself up. um

you know the the coordinated access

groups that I work with here in

Charlotte, we we've worked really hard

on you know every week finding a

positive

um and that way you don't let the the

weight of the job kind of you know drag

you down. So, so that would be something

that I'd really like to, you know, if if

I was building a manual, I I would or a

guide I I would talk about because I see

a lot of people get into this industry

and burn out and disappear really

quickly. Um, and oftentimes they're

beating themselves up over over the

losses and and you have to realize some

landlords aren't going to budge. It's

not always going to be a perfect

situation.

um se celebrate your victories,

but you know, we're developing this

every every day as we go. So, you know,

5 years from now, this will be a whole

different discussion because, you know,

we'll have that many more years under

our belts to to to say, well, we've done

we've learned and we've we've made

mistakes along the way, but here's

here's where we are.

[Music]

That's great. What a great way to kind

of close out this this question.

Appreciate it. And uh yeah, imagine it's

definitely not always the easiest uh

easiest work and people I think get into

this field because they want to help,

right? They want to support and and

unfortunately sometimes there are some

realities uh to the situation. So good

to have some perspective on that. Um

okay, we have technically five minutes

left. I'm going to look to promise to

see what we're doing here, but I'm going

to also launch us into a question

because we have some great questions.

um from the Q&A. And um so first

question I have here, thanks Emma for

queuing up the questions for me. Um so

people really want to hear some specific

tips for winning the landlords over and

getting to a point where they're willing

to work with you. How do you approach

reaching out to them, setting up initial

meetings to build these relationships?

Oo. Yeah. So how do you win them over?

How do you woo the landlords?

Yeah. I think for here it's it's about

it's money.

Okay. I think it honestly it's about us

being willing to step in and you know

they they know that rent will always be

paid because if they lose their subsidy

or if we're delayed in, you know,

getting an application sorted out before

we get them housed, then we're able to

offset those costs. Um and like damages

like and we're

we're always there, you know. Um, so I

think that's the main thing is that they

know if they have an issue, they're

going to call us and we're going to

react. We're going to come. We're going

to do what we say we said we were going

to do. We're actively involved and we're

actively engaged.

That's great. I mean, that's a

compelling compelling way to who who

said earlier dangling the carrot. Um,

first I think said that launching

car with competitive, right? It's such a

competitive market and

everyone's fighting over the same unit.

Yeah, absolutely. It's it's proving

proving that you're reliable that and

and well again I come from a small place

so word of mouth you know if if you do a

couple landlord situations really well

then you know a couple more down the

road they'll be like oh I heard what you

guys did with soand so and and and I'm

cool working with that. So you know that

that helps uh as you build your

reputation more and more landlords will

will jump to work with you.

Awesome. Uh, and just want to flag we

are staying back a little bit to answer

I think some of the questions. Although

it sounds like some of the questions may

have been answered by the panelists

already. Um, but yeah, we'll go through

a few more here, but if folks obviously

need to sign off obviously you can sign

off. I have to leave it at at 2:30, but

Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I don't

think we'll go to 2:30, but Oh, no.

Sorry. It's 2:30 my time. That's right.

You're right. Okay. Um, I'm going to put

my email in the chat. So, if anybody

wants to reach out, if anybody has any

questions, uh, just feel free to reach

out to me. Um, but on that, I'm going to

step out. Thank you, Erica. Thank you to

the rest of the panel and promise. Have

a good day, folks. Thanks, Chris.

Appreciate you. We'll be in touch.

Thank you so much, Chris. Nice talking

to you. All right, we'll just do maybe a

couple more questions here. Um,

Okay, sorry. So the next question is

people also want to know about how

landlord engagement looks different when

your clients are living

multigenerationally. So you might be

balancing the relationship between a

client, their parent and the landlord

and all three of them uh may may or may

not be on the same page. So when you

have sort of a I guess the question is a

multigenerational household and how do

you balance the relationships there?

I can't really speak to that because we

mostly we don't really do

um a lot of family housing. It's more

individual. Um we do support families,

but it's mostly like parents and

children.

Okay, got it. That's fair. For us, we we

uh support youth that's between the ages

of 16 to 24.

Sometimes though indirectly the family

might depends on on that youth's individ

that individual youth

circumstance that the parent might be

supported indirectly by supporting the

youth the parent is supported as well

but we deal with the youth.

Got it. But the parent could end up

getting supported. That's great too

indirectly because when we support the

youth and also through the family it

depends on what it is that's going on

right it's the individual

circumstance because through the family

intervention re reunification the firm

program uh if it's something that they

could get involved with that with the

family and

resolve then it might work it just

depends on what the situation is got it

okay thanks for sharing that I wonder if

the person has I will say sorry I will

say though that if we I I feel like I

know what we would do we would bring

them in circle because that's what we do

with everything and normally everything

gets resolved in circle and you know

we're able to come up with some sort of

common ground that everyone can work

with you know and and so I think if we

were ever in that situation we would

definitely sit in circle al together and

come up with ways of how we and work

through that.

Got it. Thanks for that. Yes. Yes. Feel

free to answer as to what you would do

if you were in that situation, too. You

come with all sorts of expertise. Okay,

let's do one more question and then and

then I need to throw it over to promise

to close us out. So, it says Cheryl with

Reach in Tacoma. Oh, cool. Hi, Cheryl

from Tacoma. Uh who is a housing case

manager and a formerly unhoused

community member. uh says, "Not sure if

government funding is the same as here

in the US, but it sounds like we share

many of the same issues." Uh, which

makes sense. Yeah, I haven't heard

anyone mention funding program

requirements as a barrier. Do your

financial assistance programs have

strict time frames or duration for a

participant to receive assistant or be

eligible for housing help? So, funding

barriers, that's always a barrier for

us. Um especially like you know we

really access indigenous stream funding

and sometimes it seems like funders are

not really understanding the needs and

the ways

of knowing and being from an indigenous

lens. So, you know, sometimes it's just

like, okay, we got all this funding, but

your directives and and your the way you

want us to spend it is not really

suiting the needs of community, right?

So, how do we be creative? And it's a

lot of advocacy and going back and forth

because we want to utilize the money in

proper ways as supporting community, but

the funding doesn't allow for certain

things. So you know it gets very

frustrating and I think having you know

transparent conversations with funders

um so that they can fully understand

what is happening in community and that

comes with like you know education too

right because I can only speak based on

an indigenous way but you know not

everyone is educated in different

indigenous cultures and so working to

that and working for that um I I think

that is that is a big challenge. Um and

the systems that are in place to support

um homeless folks such as income support

does not meet the need of securing

housing rights. So, we're always having

to apply to different funding uh sources

to try like Canada housing benefit for

example uh to to pay for that top up of

the rent um in addition to what income

support will pay. So, but yes, funding

is always uh funding barriers are always

a

challenge. No

doubt. Janna, do you want to add to that

or are you just like, "Yep, I'm there

too.

Yeah, that's exactly that's why I'm ning

it's it's very much similar funding is

always the issue and and understanding

uh you know just recently we were

talking about that too because some

funders they would fund a program

specifically you okay we're doing youth

but how is that program being managed if

you want you know sometimes they don't

understand that you know directly okay

you want to support a youth But somebody

has to do the work for that use, right?

And

yeah, you know,

so so yeah, it's it's funding is a big

um a big issue all around. And the lack

of multi-year contracts as opposed to

one year these one-year contracts that

you got to keep applying for and

everyone's fighting over the same money,

you know. So, if uh funding was designed

so that it was a multi-year contract,

um you know, you can do more work with

that because especially when it comes

from a housing and homelessness

perspective, um where it's so

predominant right now, um having the

flexibility to be able to move through

multifunding um opportunities is much

more beneficial than this these one-year

contracts.

Yeah. because you can't predict that

someone's housing stability is going to

happen within a funding period, right?

Like people are human beings and and and

life happens and so you know they their

housing might be stabilized for a

certain point but then you know stuff

happens and and um you know they need

supports and resources but and then

you're you take all this time building

your relationship and then all of a

sudden it's like oh we don't have this

funding. So, a lot of times you're

offsetting ways that you can support

them through different funding pots so

that at least they're they're getting

something some sort of support whether

it's like peer support, cultural

support, housing support, we'll do what

we can, you know,

I would say though for for us at rest uh

the region appeal which is the region

that we're in South uh they have

actually they're one of our funders and

and it's very interesting is really good

to see because uh they all

also a part of housing. So they sort of

understanding they're getting a better

understanding now as well. So, so

they've increased the amount of money

and the way that and the amount of the

flexibility to to use their funding that

they given to rest to arrest now which

is which is actually really really good

and it's a good um it's really really a

good incentive now to we could help more

people we could help more

youth and hopefully it doesn't

end you know that it's continuous but so

But it looks like it's going to be

continuous. It'll be continuous. So

that's like a major break. A major major

break because it's the region itself

that's that's part of it.

Totally. It's nice kind of like the

landlords. It's nice when you can have

the funders as like partners um and

people that understand you and work

along with you. Um sorry Erica, I just

put in chat there. I actually have to

run. Yep. Yep. But my email is there. uh

please feel free to reach out to me

anytime to have further conversation or

if you want more information I'm I'm

willing to share. So thank you very much

for having me. This was so great and I

look forward to watching some of the

podcast. Awesome. Thank you so much

Lean. Appreciate you so much and all

your uh sharing. And I think with that

I'm going to pass it to Promise to close

us out. Yeah, we've wrapped up our third

question. So over to you Promise.

Thanks so much everyone. And yeah,

thanks again Erica for handing back. Um

I am gonna Sorry, my voice is horse so

I'm

just excuse me everyone. Let's try that

again. Uh thank you so much for joining

us Erica. We're definitely cutting that

out in post. Everyone pretend that never

happened. Um I appreciate all of you who

are still here with us today and um who

are staying right until the very end.

So, I'm just going to go ahead and close

us out with some housekeeping

announcement before wrapping up for the

day. Everybody, please join me in the

chat and with your reaction emojis to

start by saying thank you to our

panelists for everything that they've

shared today. Um, I know that in a lot

of these conversations, we a huge

question that comes up is like, okay,

what's the nitty-gritty? How do we do

the things? How do you put one foot in

front of another and ask, you know, to

reach out to a landlord or to get

connected and stuff like that? And so

it's been really insightful to hear from

people who have been doing that work for

a long time about what it takes to make

change and also what it took to get to

those positions in the first place. So

thank you so much to the panelists for

everything that you've shared. Everyone

also please send a special thank you

Erica's way for being the absolute just

best at moderating today and keeping

things moving along and putting up with

a lot behind the scenes to keep things

flowing. We always appreciate the

flexibility. Um, before I send you all

on your way, I just needed to uh remind

you of a couple things on the way out.

The first being to please make use of

our feedback form as you're heading out

for the afternoon today. The feedback

form is how we go about hearing from you

about your thoughts on the panel and how

we could improve your experience. We

check it regularly to learn more about

the topics you want to see, the things

you're enjoying about the show that we

should keep keep doing, sorry, and the

things that we should change. So, if you

have any thoughts on the show at all or

if you even just simply just want to

leave a kind word so we know to

essentially keep the momentum we have

going, please, please, please do make

use of the feedback form on your way

out. It's how we hear from you and we do

check every single one. So, it's really

really appreciated when you do it. Um,

the second thing I wanted to mention is

that as I mentioned at the start of

today's panel, I do have some really

cool news to share today about how you

could get involved with one of our

in-person panels later this year. So,

Prevention Matters will be at this

year's National Conference on Ending

Homelessness, which the cool kids will

know is abbreviated as CAH uh if you

were there in Ottawa last year. I'm

excited to announce that for this year's

conference, which is taking place this

fall in Montreal, um they are now

accepting proposals for presentations.

So, the Canadian Observatory on

Homelessness is partnering with the

Quebec Homelessness Prevention

Collaborative and we'll be receiving

proposals for one stream that's called

the Prevention Research and Policy

Stream. So, research and policy about

prevention stream. I know it's a lot of

words, but I am trusting that y'all are

keeping up. Um, aside from the usual

conference presentations that take

place, which are usually more of like a

formal series of, you know, short

discussions with a PowerPoint, the

prevention matters panels that will be

taking place at the conference will be

similar to this. So, less formal

presentations, more

conversational. Um, the application

deadline is May 26th, 2025. So, you have

a little bit of time, but not that much,

just a little bit under a month. Um,

please do submit your application under

the prevention research and policy

stream for a chance to be included in a

prevention matters panel session at the

conference later this year. Emma's going

to help me put a link in the chat where

you can learn more about CA on their

website and get involved. So, please do

take a look at that as well on your way

out. Um, the final announcement I had

for today was just to tell you a little

bit about what we have lined up for you

next month. And I'm really excited to

share that for our next panel, we're

going to be joined by a panel of

brilliant community members who have

lived experience to talk about what

indigenous homelessness prevention means

to

them. So, we're hoping to have a very

grounded conversation on the modern

realities of homelessness in indigenous

communities and how those solutions look

straight from the source, straight from

people who have that experience um in

their past, in their history. It's going

to be a really powerful time. It's going

to be a really poignant time. So, we

look forward to seeing you there if

you're able to join us. That's all I had

to say today. So, as I send everybody on

their way, I'd just like to wish you all

a wonderful morning, afternoon, or

evening, wherever you're calling in

from. Um, and I hope that whether we see

you at next month's panel conversation

that's going to be grounded in that

personal lived experience or a couple

months down the line, um, I just look

forward to seeing you at one of these

conversations again really, really soon.

Uh, so take care everybody and I'll see

you next time.

Bye everyone. Thank you everyone.

Byebye. Let's get in.