#EventInsights webinar - Sustainability in Events

[MUSIC]

>> So welcome everyone
to Event Insights.

I'm Chrissy with
Safe Events Global.

And joining us
today, we have

Mr. Rick Bate. Rick,
how are you doing?

>> I'm good. Don't often
get called mister,

I'm normally in
trouble when

somebody calls me mister

>> So, Rick is vice
president of IOS.

He's also a fellow at

the IIRSM and he's

worked on some pretty
huge events like

the Olympic Games
and Formula

E. And when we met

last week to have

a little chat about
this webinar,

Rick mentioned
that instead of

the usual presentation
style session,

he wanted to be a little
more conversational,

and he specifically wanted

to have some curveballs
thrown at him.

So I figured who
better to invite

to join us than
Mr. Mark Breen?

>> I'm worried
about that now.

>> I'm looking
if not random.

I can be relied
on to be random.

>> Okay, so as we said,

this one might be a
little bit more clunky.

I'm going to share
from my screen,

which means I
won't be able to

see the chats on Mark.

I'll have you throw
the curveballs at

Rick and have a look

at the chat there as well.

>> Yeah, I'll keep an
eye on that stuff.

>> Brilliant. Okay, let's

go to the first slide.

So first of all,
great to be here.

It's taken Mark and
Chrissy a little bit of

time to actually find

a slot where I was free.

But I really have

been looking
forward to this.

The thing I want to share

with you, first of all,

is that I'm not an
environmentalist by trade,

and I'm a recent convert
to sustainability.

The reason why I've become

passionate about
sustainability is

that I lived and
worked in it

with Formula E
for eight years,

and I worked with some
incredible people.

More recently, I've
been talking about

sustainability on
behalf of IOs.

So I just want to
share with you,

I'm bringing you my
real-life experience

of trying to deliver
sustainable events,

and I'm no evangelist.

I just want to share
that with you.

And I'm really
looking forward

to getting some questions
from you, as well.

So, please ask me good

questions to avoid Mark

throwing me curveballs.
Next slide, please.

So I'm going to lean
into Mark a little

bit because I know
the areas where

predominantly market,
your business works.

But the climate crisis

is 100% impacting events.

It's having an effect on

what we do right now,

working in excessive heat,

and people being subjected
to UV radiation.

These are now becoming
ever more common.

I was in Dubai
two, three weeks

ago when there
was 18 months

worth of rain in what was

it 2.5, three hours.

But these are not specific

just to the regions

that we once considered
to be hot regions.

This is now
happening in the UK

and Europe, along with,

an increase in heat,

air pollution is

becoming ever
more problematic,

something that I didn't

necessarily realize
until I did a bit

of background research for

this session that we

have we've got a real
significance concern

in Northern Europe
around malaria,

which I hadn't
realized was

becoming so much
of an issue.

The other thing with heat,

it affects health
and welfare.

But again, most
people don't make

that link between
the effect

of heat and mental
ill health.

That's something
we'll talk

about as we go
through the slides.

Obviously, with this
comes increased costs,

and with increased costs

becomes a question of

are our events viable.
Next slide, please.

Next one, please,
Chrissy. Thank you.

There's some important
numbers in here.

I'm not a person
who wants to

just read slides
out to you.

I think we all know the
global temperatures

rising and rising
quite significantly.

The numbers on the
bottom, which you see,

the ILO reporting

that 18,000/18,000
workplace deaths

due to extreme heat.

These numbers are
stratospheric and we are

the type of people
in our industry

that are most at risk.

We're working outside
predominantly.

We're expected to
work long hours,

and it's something
that we do have to

consider and bear this

in mind as we
move forward.

Now, I know, Mark,

your business works a lot

in Saudi Arabia
and the UAE.

Saudi Arabia is one
of the few countries

that has actually
issued a decree,

I think it's between
correct me if I'm wrong,

Mark, I'm happy for
you to jump in.

I think it's between
May and September.

When the temperature
rises above

32.9 between the hours

I think it's 10 and three,

then work can stop.

And now, this is a
significant change for

us when we're working

and managing
our workforce.

The other number in there,

my wife's a dermatology
specialist,

so she always gets me
to talk about this.

Almost 20,000
work-related deaths

due to UV radiation.

That's specifically
melanoma.

Melanoma is an issue.

It's not well managed.
It's certainly

not well managed
in the UK.

And interestingly,
Mark, my wife does

some clinics
over in Ireland.

So it's something that we

need to be more
broadly aware of.

And I know this
is probably

not what you thought
I was going to

talk about when I

introduce sustainability
in events,

but this is all key to
what we're trying to

achieve. Next
slide, please.

>> My wife is a nurse and

works largely in a
dermatology environment,

so I hear about
this regularly too.

And on that,
the working ban

in Saudi, you're right,

it tends to land between

May and September
depending

on the weather tracking,

you get notice of
a couple of days

when they're going
to implement it,

and it's 12:00-3:00,

90% rule of no
working outside.

There are certain
industries with exemptions,

but I mean, from
our perspective,

if we're building
shows or building

sites or doing
civil works,

we definitely tend
to down tools.

We would decree
outwardly on

site that people should

not be working
outdoors in it.

And, if there's scope

to work indoors,
that's fine.

If there isn't.

If your task is
wholly outdoors,

you just have to
build that into

your timeline because
it's just unbearable.

There's no point trying

to do that to
people, you know.

>> And this brings

me kind of usefully

onto this next
point around cost.

I think we've all
or most of us heard

about the People
Planet profit model.

It's a guy called
John Elkington.

He's not an
environmentalist.

He's an economist and

I believe from
Yale University.

And he coined this People

Planet profit phrase

or model back in 1994.

Interestingly,
more recently,

he now says it
doesn't work.

And he's reviewed
it and reissued it.

But when we talk
about sustainability,

what we're talking about

is that interaction
between people,

planet, and profit.

And it's not inappropriate

to talk about profit.

Our events need
to be viable.

But you're going
to see through

the next few slides or

perhaps through
this whole session,

my absolute passion and

my drive is about
social sustainability,

about looking
after our people.

Next slide,
please. This is

something that's
contentious.

One of the things that
I've had to do over

the past 10 years is

build an understanding of

what real
sustainability is,

and understanding
the economic,

the economic issues that

face the delivery
of an event,

using the current

financial models
that we use.

Now, I would argue that

currently, we don't
do very well.

There are some
events which I'll

mention shortly that
really do stand out.

But in general terms,

what we do in

the events industry
is very linear.

We take resources
from the environment,

we produce stuff,
we distribute,

we consume, and then
we send it to waste.

That just isn't
going to work.

That is incredibly
wasteful.

It's damaging to
the environment.

It's not
economically viable,

and we need to refresh and

review how we

approach our
delivery of events.

Now, we all have
experienced reducing

single-use
plastic bottles.

We'll have probably worked

with recyclable branding.

But we'll come to this,

as we go through

our conversation
this afternoon.

But what the China

changed this model to
a circular economy.

For us, there are some

simple things
that we can do.

It's reusing and
repurposing materials

we've already used to

close the circle,
to close the loop.

What we have to stop
doing is at the end of

an event just basically

sending all of our waste

materials to landfill.

We need to be a
bit more grown-up,

and we need to plan
and think about it.

And it's a real shift
in our culture.

There are financial
benefits to doing this,

but I'm not going
to give you

a lecture on economics

because I'm not an expert.

But I want you
to keep thinking

about the way we currently

operate and how
we should be

starting to think
about operating

over the next decade.

So that was the point

I was trying to make with

you this afternoon here.
Next slide, please.

So greenhouse
gases, again,

just a quick introduction.

All the things that we do

as an events industry,

power, logistics,
travel materials,

food, water,
plastics, waste.

We can improve,
we can do better.

And by doing
better, there is

a real chance that we

can contribute to

the reduction in
greenhouse gases,

and really
importantly, trying to

keep that
temperature increase

of 1.5 degrees,

which we're aspiring to do

by the end of this decade,

trying to get that
under control.

I believe that we

probably won't be
able to do it.

But we're a big industry,

we're an important
industry,

and we should be
playing our part.

What we're
currently doing,

not just the event,

what all industry is

doing is that in

effect, we are
cooking the planet.

The normal greenhouse
gas effect can't

work because we're
releasing so much CO2,

we're releasing
water vapor

that we're actually
interfering

with a normal
greenhouse gas effect.

So that's a quick
introduction to what

we are doing by releasing

greenhouse gases.
Next slide, please.

So let's get
our teeth into

this. What are
we going to do?

What can we do
to contribute?

Well, let's start by
just looking at the UK.

I believe the
number in Ireland,

of what the events
industry is worth in

Ireland is somewhere
around 6.4 billion.

It's 40 billion in the UK.

So we have,

well, we've got
a part to play.

We also, really
importantly,

we have a voice
to be heard.

We can contribute
to reducing

greenhouse gases
and maintaining

this magic number
of keeping

the 1.5 degrees Celsius,

keeping that
number in mind.

And we're only talking
about six years away.

What are we doing? How are

we going to
contribute to this?

And what would be great in

the chat is if you could

just those of you that are

already trying to deliver

more sustainability
within events

or are delivering a
sustainable event.

Pop some questions
in the chat.

What are you doing?

What do you think that
we can do to improve?

I've got some ideas,

and bear in mind
this afternoon,

I'm just talking to
you about my ideas.

I'm not saying
these are correct.

These are just things
that I've been doing,

1.5 degrees doesn't sound
very much, does it?

But the average
temperature

last year around the globe

was around 16 degrees
Celsius, 16.2.

So, trying to control

this 1.5 degrees

doesn't sound
like a big deal,

but the problem
is that it's

not a global approach.

What we're doing
in Europe,

what we're doing in UK,

Ireland, we're doing
some great stuff.

But then we go out
to other countries

that aspire to
do things well.

But unfortunately,
when we get there,

we see that it's
not happening.

So there's a
global picture,

which I'm afraid currently

there's a little bit,

there's a lot of
disengagement.

So I'm going to

move on because
I could talk

about this slide
for the full hour.

So let's move on
to the next slide,

and let's see what we
can chat about here.

So first of all,
hand on heart.

I'm going to just mention

these events because I
either know the people

who run the events or

I've actually worked
on the events.

So stand out for me.

Overall, I would say

I'm obviously very
passionate about

Formula E. I spent

eight years of
my life there.

E won Power boats
and Extreme E,

that was all part
of the same family.

But Black Deer Festival,
absolute standout.

In fact, I think
my last slide,

I'm just going to give
you some insights

from the Black
Deer Festival.

But there's other
series doing

things really well,
other events doing well.

Sail GP are
absolute standout.

Their performance
is something

that I would
aspire to deliver.

Good life festival,
tiny little festival in

a very pretty
little village in

North Wales called Harden,

happens to be
where I live.

They're doing
fantastic things,

and they're not spending

a huge amount of money.

They're just using
common sense.

Now, if you look
at Formula E,

I left Formula E, I
think, 18 months ago.

The budget to deliver
sustainable events.

>> Significant. Now, most

of us don't work in events

where we can spend

millions on achieving
a sustainable outcome.

So as we go
through, hopefully,

I'm going to share
with you some insights

and just let you know

some of the things
that I've done.

And these are not
particularly clever.

I'm not a particularly
bright guy,

I've just found solutions
that I think work.

So some of these are
worth looking at.

Burning Man do good
stuff as well.

But I would definitely,

if you want to

understand how things
are done well,

have a look at Black
Deer Festival.

And next slide, please.

So where do you go

for guidance
and standards?

I'm going to ask you
guys a question.

Mr. Breen, you
can come back at

me at this, if you want.

I wouldn't mind
a little bit

of a chat around this.

ISO 20121.

When I did my first event

that was with a
sustainable umbrella,

it was the Olympics
in 2012 in the UK,

there was this
aspiration that

the Olympics would
achieve ISO 20121.

Hand on heart, I had

no clue what it was about.

And because I jumped
on that bandwagon,

when I went to Formula E,

I found that they
were aspiring to have

20121 football
association exactly

the same. They wanted it.

I'm an assessor
auditor for 20121.

In fact, British
Standards,

BSI asked me, would I

contribute to a
review of 20121.

And I've been
honored to do that.

But, Mark, do you

think the average
event that we work on,

not the big
multinational stuff,

not sandstorm, things

that we work
on day to day.

Do you think there's
any advantage

to our clients
holding ISO 20121?

>> I think two things.
I think there would be

a potential advantage
if they were

to follow and meet

those criteria and
achieve 20121,

I do think they'd be

in a better place for

lots of really
good reasons.

Do I think it's
realistic to expect

events operating
at that level

to A, be aware of,

let's be honest, 20121,

and B, put the time,

effort, wherewithal
in to achieve it?

I think that's
highly unlikely,

which is why one of

my main awkward
questions for you,

which actually
probably isn't

awkward because as
I say it out loud,

I'm pretty sure you

get hit with this
all the time.

What was going to be.

Look, ISO 20121,
that's amazing.

Some of the Formula Es,

the middle beasts
of the world,

maybe they can aspire
to aim for that.

And let's be honest,
they'll have

lofty reasons for doing

so and great points
around doing it.

I was going to ask

at some point and
we don't have to

talk about it now
whenever suits.

But I'm interested in

what the low hanging
fruit here is.

What are the good, quick,

real wins for normal
standard local events?

And what's interesting is

you've picked
some, I guess,

normal standard
local events,

but you're able
to point to

leaders in sustainability
really try.

So maybe I'm
overstating the gap

between some with

the budgets and
everybody else.

Maybe there are
really good ways

the rest of us can

impact in achievable,
inexpensive ways.

I'm interested in
that. I'm going

to be very honest
with you, Rick.

Naturally, I'm not big
on sustainability.

In fact, within

my IOH personal
development thing,

it's one of those
competencies I'm working on

because I'm not clued in.

I'm not actively
thinking that way a

lot. So I'm
working on that.

So I'm quite
keen, actually,

to see, look, what
are the real things?

We can all talk
about having

things on digital instead

of printing them out.

There's got to be more.

There's got to be a
middle ground there

that don't
automatically come to

my mind but are achievable

without maybe
hitting 20121.

I'm sure you've
loads of good ideas.

>> We'll get to that
slide and I'll talk you

through what we did on
this particular event.

Obviously now there's the

sustainability chapter
in the Purple Guide.

There's a link between

the sustainability chapter

and Vision 2025.

It's the same
group of people

that are delivering are

Vision 2025 that wrote

the chapter in
the Purple Guide.

And it's interesting.

It's useful information,

but there's other
stuff out there.

Carbon Trust. You can

go to any of
their websites.

You can go to
their website

and have a look at
what they're doing.

And anybody that
works in film and TV,

the Albert standard

for sustainable
productions,

that's been around
for probably

10, 12 years. There's a lot
of groups doing good work.

What I would say is that

perhaps they're
not all joined up.

So if I look at these,

I know that the NOEA,

National Outdoor
Events Association.

They sit in the
middle here.

So I've done some work

for NOEA as a volunteer

around supporting this
review of ISO 20121,

but NOEA also
support Vision 2025.

So maybe NOEA is

sitting in the
middle trying to

do some positive work,

but currently there are

disparate groups doing
different things.

They're not
necessarily pulling

in different directions,

but they may have
different motivations.

I'm aligned with you,
Mark, around 20121.

I think there's value.

But one of the
things that I

learned very quickly
when I was trying to

help clients
deliver 20121,

if they already had 45001,

14001, it was very

easy for me to help

them to achieve
that standard,

which then started me

asking myself questions.

Did they really
understand the value?

Did they really buy

into what they
were trying to

achieve by holding 20121?

So that's a debate,
and that's a question.

I've got my own opinion.

But I again, I'm
mindful of time,

and I have created
this deck,

has quite a few
slides in it,

so we'll move on.

That was a great
point mark,

and I promise you'll
come back to it.

This is something I think

we're all interested in.

And I got really

deeply involved in this
with Formula E. Now,

for those of you who don't

know what Formula E is,

it's an electric motor
racing championship

which everybody laughed
about 12 years ago,

and it has taken a
while to take off.

But it's really
exciting racing.

The cars are very quick.

It's not at the
level of Formula 1,

but it's owned by

the same organization,
Liberty Media.

But what Formula
E have done

because they've got
so many bright,

clever young people,
they've just

completely started
from fresh.

So they from the outset,

have they have tried
really hard to look at

alternative methods
for producing power.

So if we just follow

this hierarchy
the prevention

is the obvious one.

We still use
diesel generators,

but I know diesel
generators

have moved on apace.

You've got the new again,

using a brand, but
there are others,

the Volvo, Penta,

Stage V. They're
relatively clean energy.

But what are the
alternatives?

Why are we using

diesel generators?
What else can we do?

And I'm not talking about

erecting a wind turbine

or putting out a
huge solar array,

there are common
sense approaches.

If you're
delivering an event

in a town center,

explore the potential
to use grid power.

And I'll explain
what I did in

Birmingham at the
Birmingham Festival

before we finish
chatting this afternoon.

Again, I think I

probably covered
this by talking

about using more
efficient engines.

There are gas-powered
generators,

and there's also hydrogen.

Now, you hear a lot
of people talking

about hydrogen and
hydrogen be in the future.

There's probably a balance

between hydrogen
and electricity.

But the problem with

the hydrogen
generators that I've

got experience
using the very,

very low-power output,
so they don't compare

in power output to

a diesel or a
gas generator.

Hybrids. Yeah, I think

there's some value in
considering hybrids,

particularly when
you're using

a hybrid that uses

backed up with
battery technology.

But this whole piece
around battery technology,

we could probably if we

opened a chat
and we actually

opened up all of
your microphones,

we could talk about
battery technology

for probably another
half an hour.

Using HVO, that's used

a lot in diesel
generators.

But then you look at,
companies like Agip,

the Italian fuel producer.

They're spending
billions on

synthetic fuels, for me,

it just begs the question,

why are we making
it so complicated?

There are common sense

simple things
that we can do.

Let's not concern

ourselves with
electric vehicles

for a second and

the potential for
them to catch fire.

I think the future lies
somewhere where we're

using hydrogen-powered
generators to

charge a large
battery pack,

and we will run

the events from
battery packs.

We know we can
do it. It was

done ten years ago,

using lead iron batteries.

So it's been done.

Coldplay doing some
fantastic stuff.

But there's also

some simple
things we can do.

You can buy all kinds

of apps now that will

monitor your power usage

and switching
generators off

when you don't
need them or

switching from a higher
capacity generator

to a lower capacity
generator.

There's a lot
of good work.

There's a couple
of companies,

I can think that
really stand out,

the ones that work with

formulary and
you really well.

And then there
is something

else that is super simple.

I did a similar session
to this two days ago.

And I asked a lot

of event organizers
from North Wales,

how many of you
actually thought

about switching to
a cheaper tariff,

a renewable
electricity tariff?

And I think there
was about 15,

20 people in the room.

Not a single one
had done it.

Now, that's a simple,
easy solution.

It's great for

the overall carbon
footprint of your event.

You can use it in

your reporting,
and it's simple.

So don't make
things complicated.

Look at what you're
trying to achieve.

Look at how much
power you need,

and look at the
alternatives, and be brave.

Do things that are
slightly different.

And hopefully, when I

explain what we did at

Birmingham Festival
last year,

you'll see that there are

things that can be done

if you're a little
bit cheeky.

I'm not short on front,

so I'll explain that in

a few seconds. Next
slide, please.

>> We do like cheeky.

>> Well, you have
met me a few times

[LAUGHTER] But we do

have to be brave as well.

My generation, I'm
a baby boomer.

And I'm hypocritical.

I've got two cars,

a motorbike, got two
or three computers.

There's a level of
hypocrisy with me

just being here
talking to you today.

What I recognize is

that my generation and
generations before

mine have
significantly impacted

the planet for
millennials,

Gen Zs, Gen A,

as something that I wasn't

aware of until recently.

Youngsters today really do

have an environmental
anxiety.

They're concerned
about what's coming.

They hear us talking about

catastrophic change
in just six years.

I'm old. I'm counting
down the years.

But if I was a teenager

now and I'm hearing
these worrying figures,

we have to control
greenhouse gases.

We've got to keep the

global temperature
from rising by

less than 1.5%
by 1.5 Celsius,

by 2030, I would
be frightened.

So I'm not going
to talk about

this particular slide for

a long time
because this is,

I think, with respect,

I know that
we're all bright

capable people in
the events industry.

This is pretty
much common sense.

Logistics are complicated.

I remember doing

concert tours back
when I was a lad,

when everything we
did was very linear.

One set of kit, one
back line, one stage,

break it down, go
build it again,

put the event on, break

it down, go
build it again.

We've moved on. A lot of

the change in
sustainable logistics

is being driven by AI.

And whether we are
comfortable with

advanced technologies,
it's happening.

IOSH have recently
published

quite a useful
document on how they

foresee alternative
technologies changing

the future of
health and safety.

>> And I have
recognized or

discussing 20 different
technologies.

Now, I'm okay with cobots,

robots, AI
understand all that.

But yeah, there is

some stratospheric
changes coming.

And I think from
our perspective,

unless we are a
very senior person

within finance or the
logistics managers,

we just need to do some
very simple things.

We need to look at
do we need to travel

the kit can we get

the kit in the countries

that we're moving to?

I made a crazy mistake
18 months ago.

I thought because
we were moving

an event to Ghana
that I wouldn't be

able to find the
kit in Ghana

because Ghana's an
African nation.

How stupid was I?

Ghana is a really
advanced nation.

It had every
bit of kit that

I needed, and we
still traveled it.

So think about
what you're doing.

Think about, do
you actually need

to travel that kit?

Work with your suppliers.

And I have to say, again,

there are some simple
things you can do.

Look at where
you're going on

a tour or if it's

your event and it's
a single event.

Look at where you're

hiring your
equipment from.

Do you need to
hire a kit from

London if you're putting

a gig on in Manchester
and vice versa.

If you're putting a
gig on in North Wales,

why are you bringing
all your kit in

from Merseyside?
Simple things.

Last week, I was really,

really lucky to get to

Formula 1's global
headquarters

in Big and Hill.

And driven by COVID

and the changes that COVID

forced upon Formula 1,

they've radically
changed everything

they do around broadcast.

I have to say that

they're very proud of
what they've done,

but again, I would
say that we did it

in Formula E 10 years ago.

Formula 1 simply have
just stopped traveling,

I think it was over 300

broadcast technicians
and camera operators,

and now their whole
operation runs out

of Big and Hill in the
southeast of England.

And the people that
they do have to travel,

they literally it's on
a needs must basis,

so everybody is reviewed.

And they've done
clever things

around just
repackaging cargo into

different size
flight cases

so they can use
less aircraft.

The aircraft they do use,

they're looking
at looking at

potential for
using biofuels.

But everything they
do is data driven and

their schedules
are managed

by empirical
evidence and data.

I mean, we're talking
about Formula 1.

We're talking
about an extremely

wealthy organization.

But what they're doing is

not actually that
complicated.

They've just moved all of

their broadcast to a
single central hub,

and when you're watching

Formula 1 and you think,

you're watching the hosts

at the track, they're
actually they're not.

They're in Big and
Hill. So that's

a little I said I
wasn't going to

talk about logistics I've

gone on for 5 minutes.

>> I remember Gary
in F1 talking

me through the

containers for
their airfreight,

that they had chopped off

a corner of one
that meant they

got that one into the
same plane as the rest.

And when it was fully

squared off,
it didn't fit.

It had to travel
in another

plane with some
other gear.

But when they decided
to cut the corner off,

that it fit into
that final space

in the plane and the
difference it made.

And I remember I asked
Gary at the time,

he said, the
money you saved.

Did that come
straight back into

a health and
safety budget?

And he said, Did it what?

He says, they were
glad to save it,

but his team
didn't get it.

But again, you're right,

they're looking at
stuff like that.

And it's interesting.

It's

a different conversation
for another day.

But it's interesting that

COVID drove a lot of

that innovation ask us

all to think about
things differently.

I'm always trying
to talk about

any positives that
come out of COVID,

and I've been able
to find a lot.

COVID's horrible.

But when you're
looking for positives,

you can find a lot
of good stuff about

the way we all
had to change,

how we act and
how we think.

>> I mean, this is
an extreme version,

but the sister
championship to Formula E,

extreme E, it's

an off road Rally
Raid series,

battery powered.

But they actually
bought the boat

and they converted
that boat

and as part of their
sustainable vision,

all of their equipment
travels on a

single it's an old post
office boat that used

to move between Liverpool

and Belfast,
moving the mail.

And now all of
their equipment is

moved on that boat.

They use it as their
broadcast hub.

They use it as
accommodation.

It was a pretty

expensive solution
at the outset,

but it's worked,

and people have really
bought into it.

And again, it's not
rocket science.

It's just somebody was
sitting somewhere,

having a pint one day and

went, do you know what?

There's a wrecked
boat sitting

in Liverpool, I wonder.

So that's the kind
of thing that we

should be doing
because by nature,

people who work in
the events industry,

we are intuitive.

We are the kind
of people that

will think about how

does what we do fit into?

Can we do anything to
make the event better?

We've all got anecdotes,

but I think we

just need to have the
confidence to be heard.

We often as health and
safety professionals

and environmentalists,

sustainability
professionals,

we always feel that
we're a bolt on,

but this is the time
for us to be heard.

We really can add
positively to this debate.

And I

know that some of the
things I've already.

When I get to
that slide, I

promise I'm getting
there, Mark,

when I talk about
Birmingham,

you'll see that
they're all my ideas.

They are everybody's ideas

and we all came together.

Good. Next slide.
I'm going to

accelerate a
little bit now

because I know we've got.

>> I'll stop in
Jeron minutes left.

>> No, no, it's
great. We've been

doing some of this
stuff for a while.

Looking at event travel,

ticketing, what should
our priorities be?

Well, energy, we've
talked about that.

Travel. We'll do a little
bit more on travel.

Carbon emissions.
I'm really

ambivalent around
carbon offsetting.

You'll see that in a
couple of slides time.

But I think we have

got ideas how we can do

something about
carbon emissions,

and there are simple
things we can

do around travel
and ticketing.

We've all been at events

where the promoters and

operators don't
allow parking.

There are some
positives in that,

but there are
some negatives

because most people will

try and drive anyway

and try and find
an alternative.

There are better
solutions.

Promoting cycling
is one way,

promoting the use of
electric vehicles.

There are risks
with doing that.

I personally just like

the ticket holders,
the attendees,

our guests to take

responsibility for
their own actions

and act appropriately.

But that comes with
a culture shift,

and that may actually
become easier as,

you know, you know,

younger people enter the

events market,
buying tickets,

simple things around just

changing how we
buy a ticket,

not using paper,
not using plastics.

That's already
started to happen.

But there's something
that I think we can do,

and from my experience,
we don't do well.

When we talk about
an event and who's

coming to the
event, we do.

We think about how

far potential are our
guests coming from?

Some ticketing hosts will

ask you how far
you're traveling.

And in fact, some

like we'll charge
you a small fee.

Let's say you travel
from Chester to London.

They'll charge
you a few pounds

for carbon offsetting
for your travel.

But how often do we

actually look at our cast,

our crew, and our
local supplies

and consider how far
they've traveled.

So I've only just recently

started doing this,

and on an event that I

worked on relatively
recently.

When it came to crew,

if they couldn't
access the site on

public transport,
we didn't use them.

I know you're all
going to take

a deep breath with
me saying that,

but these are the
things that we have to

be brave and ask
those questions.

If you're putting on a
small event locally,

the event I talked about
in my own village,

there's some talented
bands in my area.

Why don't we use
those? Why don't we

utilize the talent
that's there?

There's a bit of a
culture shift, I think,

in how we perceive the
delivery of events,

but we need to be we
need a holistic view.

We can't just focus
on the guests,

on the ticket holders,

the purchasers,
the attendees,

we've got to take a much,

much broader
holistic view.

And I guess this also

fits into that logistics
picture as well.

So I guess logistics

and travel and ticketing,

they all could be
lumped together.

But again, I'm going
to say this again,

we within the
events industry,

need to be brave. We
need to challenge.

The world does need
to change because,

you know, the crisis

that we're facing
isn't going away,

and we do have to do
something positively.

Events industry, we can.

So next slide, please.
Here's a good one.

How many times have
we at the end of

an event, just
dumped everything?

Everything's
gone into skips.

We've ripped
the stage down.

We've ripped all
the branding down.

We've ripped scrim down,

and it's gone into a skip.

I have to say that
needs to stop.

We need to be
thinking from

a perspective of a
circular economy.

So some of those things
I just mentioned,

some of those are
easy to recycle.

But campsite materials,

how many tents
get left behind?

I think somewhere
in this deck,

I've got the actual
number that was left

behind in Glastonbury
last year.

But food and drink,

I've got a slide on food

I think the next slide
might be on food.

There's some positives
we can do just

around thinking about
food and beverage.

One of the most
interesting

things I worked on over

the past couple of
years was a company

that provided
modular cabins.

Instead of bringing
two cabins to

an event on one truck,

these cabins collapse
down and you

could bring 11
on one truck.

So just thinking and

planning in advance and

looking at what's
available,

considering, where our
suppliers are based,

do we really need to bring

stuff hundreds of miles

when we can use local?

I mean, I've thrown a
lot of ideas in there.

The deck is quite heavy.

I've done it on
purpose because

I've asked Chrissy
to share the deck

with you afterwards
because hopefully you

can pick up some of my
ideas from this deck.

But I would say

some simple things
around reusing timber.

Reusing branding
wherever it's possible,

really importantly,

while it's not such a

big consideration
at the moment,

you're going to find

that it's going to be very

difficult for us to
use first cut timber.

Using first cut timber,

fresh timber, if you like,

for every single event is

another potential
environmental catastrophe.

We have to think
more broadly.

And why can't
we use a piece

of four by four twice
or three times?

And when we've
used it, why

can't that be chipped,

and why can't that
be used for fuel?

We have to start to think

about our actions and

the implications
of our actions

and not just passing

that concern on
to somebody else,

just saying, Well, okay,

I've put that in the skip.

That's now the problem

with the waste handler.

I'm speechifying
there, Mark.

I'm going to stop.

So next slide,
please, Chrissy.

Food. Again,
mindful of time,

and I promise that I

would talk to you
about what we

did in Birmingham
Festival last year.

A couple of standout
points on this slide.

Globally, meat production
is responsible

for almost 15% of global
greenhouse gases.

That's a big number.

And what can we
do about it?

Well, I didn't
really get this,

and I didn't want to
read this UK government,

food review 2030 because I

didn't think I didn't

get how it related to me.

Actually, when I read it,

I realized it's
really important.

So let's just
talk about me.

If I reduce my meat
intake by 20%,

and then perhaps
consider moving that

up to 35% by 2030.

I'm going to have
a real impact

on reducing
greenhouse gases.

Now, I'm not a vegetarian,

I'm not a vegan, but I'm

being more thoughtful
in my food choices.

And we can do that
when, you know,

those of us who
are responsible

for contracting
food and beverage.

Also think about
being a bit,

perhaps a little bit
more in the detail

about the food choices,

perhaps promoting
This is difficult,

isn't it?

You don't want to
really promote

either vegetarian
or veganism

or being a carnivore.

It's very
difficult for us.

But we can start to
make subtle changes,

and I think we're already
seeing that there

is a lean towards

plant based foods away

from the older burger

and chips or
sausage and chips.

We are beginning to see

that shift. It's
not just that.

It's also making sure

we've got accurate numbers

for event attendees so
we don't overproduce.

>> And then at the
end of the day,

I know that a lot of
you already do this,

but don't just
waste the food,

what's left, do
something positive

with it in the
local community.

Try to make sure
that food goes to

food banks or if
it's perishable,

just try and get it out

to a local homeless
charity. So again,

I'm not saying that
this piece of work that

the UK government
did around

its food strategies is

better than
anybody else's,

but actually, there's some

really useful
pieces in there.

So I would recommend
that if you've got

half an hour and
you're interested,

go have a look at
that. Next slide.

Waste. I'll mention waste

really quickly at the end,

but I guess a lot

of you know these
numbers anyway.

Quarter of a million tents

left behind in
festivals last year,

almost 900,000
plastic cups.

That should be
reduced because

single use plastics were

banned certainly
in the UK,

last year, and I know that

same has happened
in Ireland.

I think Ireland actually,
you did it first.

Disposing over a million

food containers
during a festival,

two million
plastic bottles,

it's just utterly
unsustainable.

And this material,
unfortunately,

a lot of it is
still finding

its way into landfill.

There's a lot of
things we can do.

I actually was not a big
fan just purely from

an occupational health
and safety perspective

of waterless and
composting toilets.

I've been won over
to an extent.

They're perhaps
a little bit

more expensive
and certainly,

there's some challenges
around servicing.

But again, that's a real
simple thing that we

can do as long as we

have the money to be
able to afford to do it.

The other thing
that I would say,

this is a rick
tip if you like,

just contracting a waste
handler and saying,

there you go over to you.

You can't do that anymore.

The bigger waste
handlers will be

expecting you to
separate your waste.

Or if you want

the waste handler to

separate that
waste for you,

it's going to cost you

an awful lot more money.

So I'll mention what's

happening in Wales
just before we

stop talking before
I stop talking.

It's become a real
challenge in Wales

as of 1 April. Next
slide, please.

Water. How many of us
just assume water is,

it's just always
going to be there.

You're going to
switch the tap on,

and it's going to happen.

Well, for, 2.2
billion people around

the world, that
doesn't happen.

Or if it does, that
water is not clean.

And there are things
that we can do

simple things to manage

our water resource.
It's precious.

We can't just assume

that it's always
going to be there.

And yeah, I think

water monitoring
does happen.

We can certainly if

we're choosing
a fixed venue,

we can actually ask
the venue questions

around what they're

doing around water saving.

But it's not
just the venues

and us as operators,
deliverers.

We need to challenge
our attendees,

doing some of the
uncomfortable things,

particularly around single
use plastic bottles

or refillable bottles.

I've gone back to
water free toilets

and compostable toilets.

There are positive
things we can do just by

challenging the
people we work for

and our clients
and asking,

what are we doing to

protect this
valuable resource?

I live in North
Wales. I'm surrounded

by the sea to
the north and,

dozens of lakes to
the south at me.

I've recently become aware

that I can't rely on that.

I can't always assume

that that water is
going to be there.

We have to wake
up because,

in some other countries,
particularly Mark,

where your business
is prolific,

water is a challenge.

I mean, Saudi Arabia,
there's not a lot of

difference between
a litre of

water and a liter of
fuel. That in itself

is the fact that
I've actually said

that actually makes
me uncomfortable.

But I'm pressing
on a little bit.

I could talk about
water for a while,

but we'll go on to
the next slide.

Plastics.

I think I've covered
most of this off.

Banning of single
use plastics.

We're still seeing
them, we're

not exporting plastics
like we used to,

but what can we
do positively?

Well, I think I've already

mentioned a few of these.

Planning is key,
using different type

of compostable cutlery
and packaging.

Again, that's
already started.

Digitizing IDs, gate
passes, tickets.

That I think is
already happening.

I think what we
can start to do is

perhaps move on to
the next phase,

which is educating
our attendees.

I know one or two of you

have just probably
gone now.

What on earth is
he talking about?

During my time
at Formula E,

if you came to a
Formula E race,

a big part of what we
did at the race was to

offer education
and training to

people who came
to the events.

The incredible
sustainability team

at Formula E

would talk you through
what formula E does,

what the impact of
formula E, you know,

what the impact
formula E was having.

Some years ago at
a NOA conference,

I made a throwaway
comment that Formula E

recycles more than 80%
all of its materials,

including its
construction material.

And Emily Evis actually

challenged us and
said we didn't.

And that just
made us dig in.

And the following
year, we recycled

84%. So it can be done.

Plastics, I think we're

probably aligned
on plastics,

and we understand
where we're going.

Next slide, please.

Greenwashing,
carbon offsetting.

I think, to be
honest, Mark,

I think probably
most of us are

aware of greenwashing.
We know it happens.

There's some pretty bad
press going on today,

yesterday and today around

boxing and
motorsport in Saudi.

That's probably an
extreme example.

But I'm not completely

aligned with
carbon offsetting.

It's not something
I'm comfortable with.

There is value for bigger

business in doing it.

As long as, you know,

businesses don't
think buying

carbon offset
certificates,

they're really
doing anything at

an operational level to

support reducing
greenhouse gases.

I think that's
probably enough.

I think we've
all probably got

an opinion on greenwashing
or sports washing.

And I think what we can

do within our world as

health and safety
professionals

within events and sports
and entertainment,

at least we should
have the guts

to ask the questions,

what are you really doing?

Next slide. Case study.

This is it. I
got to it, Mark.

I promised.
Look, I'm trying

to be good on time.

[OVERLAPPING] Good.

So, Birmingham
festival last year,

working with an old
friend of mine,

John Atkins, John
Atkins Productions.

We did some really
simple things.

Birmingham Festival,
great festival,

sadly not running
this year because of

financial challenges
for the city of

Birmingham. But what did
we do around energy?

Well, we were in
Millennium Square.

We did brig a
diesel generator

in as an absolute backup.

But we had enough
power there already.

We just asked the city

who their power
provider was,

what they could
do to support us.

We didn't actually switch

the diesel generator
on at all.

We monitored the
power we used.

We did a normal
distribution.

We pinched some ideas from

some of the work that
I'd seen at Formula E,

but it wasn't
rocket science.

We just used the grid.

It wasn't clever.
Materials were used.

The majority of
the materials

were recycled materials.

They'd been used on
other productions.

Does it matter
that you're using

a scruffy piece of four by

four if it's going
to be branded?

No, it doesn't. Or it's
going to be painted.

Some of the
things we did, I

would say when I
reflect back on it,

perhaps a little
bit scruffy,

but it worked.
Waste management.

We got the city to
manage our waste.

We then asked

the appropriate
questions around waste,

asked where the
waste had gone,

how it was separated,

what the tonnage was.

So we had our numbers.

We got our data.

But we used the resources

that were available to us.

Toilets, we
didn't have any,

no toilets on site
at all whatsoever.

>> What size capacity
is the show?

>> Average churn. It's
a walk through show.

We'd have about 1,200
per hour. No toilets.

What we did, we
walked around

Millennium Square
before the event,

and we spoke to all
the local restaurants,

cafes and bars and said,

if we push all
of our guests

towards you for food and

beverage, can we
use your toilet?

Guess what? They
all said yes.

Water reduction
strategy, we

told all of our
guests before

they came, Bring
your own water.

Do you know
what? Most did.

Again, it's just about

that communication
and making

sure that message
gets across.

Contractors have
mentioned this already,

haven't I? All of our
contractors were local.

None of them traveled
from outside of,

within reason the
city of Birmingham.

There's one or two
came from Coventry,

but we worked really or
I'm going to say we.

John Atkins worked
really hard on this.

Partnership with
Birmingham City

and with the
West Midlands,

that was really important.

And we used that resource

to support education,

talking to our
guests, telling them

why we'd done things
the way we did.

Staff and performer
travel, nobody,

none of the guests, none
of the entertainers

came from outside
Birmingham.

Everybody that came
to the event came

on the bus or
walked or cycled,

and we made a big effort

to get accurate data.

We published our report,
and interestingly,

access all areas and

standout picked up on it,

and they actually, they

wrote an article on
the work we did.

So everything we did
there was cheap.

It was common sense.

There's a little
bit of cheek,

going and knocking on,

established brands
doors and saying,

We want 50 people to

come into your toilet into

your bar per hour
to have a pee.

But in exchange,
we're going to

push them all towards

you for food and beverage.

And, I don't know
whether it was just we

just hit the Zike Geist

if you like,
but it worked.

>> Was there much pushback

from individual
businesses to agree,

or it all just made

sense and everyone
got on board?

>> I think it was

a year after the
Commonwealth Games.

There was still a
buzz in Birmingham.

I think people realized

that the city council

was in trouble
financially,

and I think everyone
just pulled together.

You'd get this in

Belfast or Dublin or
Liverpool or Manchester.

We just got local business
to pull together.

But we knew that we had

support from the mayor of

the West Midlands
Andy Street.

And we lent into that.

We made sure that we
had that if you like,

that higher level support.

But we produced
really good data,

and we haven't really
talked about data,

and we haven't got time
to talk about data.

So next slide, please.

That can be
another session.

It can. Yeah,
we can do data.

I'm going to pick on
Black Deer because

I just think Jillty and

the work that
her and her team

do is absolutely
brilliant.

We talked about
People Planet

profit right at the
start of the session.

The thing that I
really heavily lean

into as a safety
professional

is the people bit.

For me, people are
absolutely key.

They are the value
in our business.

There are many ways

to describe social
sustainability.

So, the bit

around making sure
that the communities

that we're delivering
our events

in and those societies
that we touch,

we want to leave
those communities,

knowing that they can
thrive and and wherever

possible to prove to

improve their health in
a fair and equal way,

IOS has got its own view,

its own description from

Catch the Wave,
which I like.

But for me, it's
really about

recognizing
that our people

are our most
valuable assets.

I think it's probably
more interesting people

on this session today.

I actually just
click on the link,

which I've shared with

you and have a
look at what

GLT Ts does with
Black Deer Festival,

the integration she has

with um with
the community,

ethics around social
responsibility,

and absolute true
equity and diversity,

not talking about it,

absolutely delivering it.

As you can tell,
I'm a big fan

of Black Deer Festival,

but there are others
out there as well,

but I think this as

a case study is worth

looking at. Next
slide, please.

Quick one on regulations.

In July, if your
business employs

more than 500 people
or makes 500 million,

that probably
doesn't apply to

many of the companies
that we work with.

There is a requirement for

those business to disclose

all of their data
that they're

collating under Scope 1,

2 and 3, which,

again, we haven't had
time to talk about.

I won't even try to
talk about Scope 1,

2 and 3 emissions
now because

that would be a half
an hour discussion in

itself because it's
highly complex.

>>The reason I put that
in is that I think

that when this is
introduced in 2024,

give it 10 years, and
smaller companies,

probably the
companies that we

own or we serve this,

we will see that there
will be a requirement

for a disclosure of our
sustainability data,

will be expected of us.

And I think it may even
be shorter than that.

So we need to be
aware that there

are regulatory
changes that

will affect our business.

Our huge change that

happened in Wales on
the 1st of April,

a requirement to
separate waste.

If you were to separate it

exactly as per
the regulation,

you'd need 10 different
bins on every site.

That is a huge
undertaking,

not only for the,

we're talking about
the events for,

an event operator or

somebody delivering
an event.

But it also brings with it

huge challenges for
waste managers.

And everybody who saw

this regulation coming

predicted what
would happen.

I did a session

with Flintshire
County Council

, Monday this week,

and the events that have

already tried to
deliver under

these new regulations have

had a lot of difficulties.

They've done
the separation.

They've put the
education piece in.

Waste warriors stood
with the bins to try and

educate members
of the public

where they should
put their waste.

But then it comes to
the waste handlers,

and because
there's currently

a disconnect or a lack
of understanding,

the waste handlers
are actually

rejecting the
waste streams.

And that is
hugely expensive.

It takes a lot of time,

and I think ultimately,
it'll get there.

But I think
perhaps what Wales

should have done is

introduced the
regulation over

a number of years rather
than just instantly.

Wales from a sustainability
and particularly

from a waste management
perspective,

is just about to become

the second best
in the world.

Ireland do really well.

Ireland are in the top 10.

But any of you out
there who are listening

today who are
operating in Wales,

feel free to
drop me a line,

and I'll share with you

another deck that I put

together unpicking these
waste regulations.

So if you haven't

already had the
experience or,

you know they're
there, but you

don't really understand
what you need to do,

feel free to
reach out to me.

I'm sure Mark and Chrissy

will share my contact
details with you.

>> Yeah, we can do.

>> Next slide. This is

all the stuff
that I didn't

get a chance to talk
to you about today.

And I'm not going
to list them.

The point I'm making here

is that what
we've done today,

we have literally
scratched

the surface. And
I've been good.

I knew that Chrissy had
briefed me and said,

please try and keep
it to an hour.

Again, I'm going
to use that word.

I'm not an evangelist.

I am really passionate
about this subject.

The safety
professionals, we

all find our niche.

Mark, your
business has got

a real focus around

crowd management,
crowd dynamics.

Other businesses
are focusing

on fire right now.

For me, I found something
that fascinated me,

and that's what
I'm focusing on.

So maybe we can
pick some of these

out and do this
again sometime.

I would definitely say

keep an eye on reporting

regulatory
compliance and how

that's going to
affect event finance.

And next slide, please.

So good stuff that's
happening out there.

Green directory.
Have a look at that.

There's some really
good resources

you don't have to pay for.

NOEA. All of the stuff
on the NOEA website,

there's a tab on the
NOEA website that says

sustainability. Go
have a look there.

I'm proud to be
a part of NOEA,

to use those resources
that are there.

And if you want to look

at what you can
do personally

for CPD or develop your
own skill portfolio,

IOSH deliver a course,
managing sustainably.

It's relatively
inexpensive.

It's a good course.
It's a short course.

And if you want to
really dip your toe

into how you could

become a specialist
in sustainability,

Cambridge University
do a short course.

It's not the
cheapest of courses,

but I think it will

whet your appetite if you

are leaning towards
sustainability.

This is where I started.
I did this course.

I did a postgraduate
diploma

in Imperial
College in London.

And then I got way
too excited and

did a diploma in
MIT in Boston,

which pushed me way
outside my comfort zone.

So what point I'm
making is you can

go from free, competent,

good advice to dipping

your toe into
further education.

And next slide, please.

So any good questions

from the chat or have
we run out of time?

>> Just to follow up
on your last point,

just on the Cambridge
side of things,

for anyone who's really
interested in this to

point out a lot
of their stuff

is online as well.

So they've got some
great options.

There's an eight-week
online course

that I've looked at

there before around
sustainability.

So there are a lot
of good things.

One question that's come

in outside of the chat,

actually, someone
sent me a message.

Something you mentioned

earlier triggered with

somebody because
they heard it

recently as well.

You mentioned
younger people

being anxious about
the environment.

And someone sent
me a message,

is based out of Dubai,

who said they were
in at some talk

or something recently
where there was

a real focus on what was

being called
environmental anxiety.

And look, hands up

instinctively sounds
a bit new age,

hippy-dippy to
me, but it's

coming up a lot and
people are starting,

what, is that
a real thing?

I'm beginning to believe

despite what my
instinct tells me that

the younger
generations are

genuinely quite
anxious about this.

>> I agree.

And my 34-year-old
daughter recently,

and I think she's outside

of this demographic
that we're

talking now, she
actually said,

when you were 16, dad,

what was the only
thing you were

focusing on probably
apart from girls?

And it was car.

I wanted a car.

I wanted a motorbike.

That was my drive.

I did part-time jobs.

Now you look at the
current generation,

particularly around
Millennials,

Generation Z, and
Generation A,

this absolute drive
to own a car,

that doesn't exist
anymore because I think

people are aware that
the public transport,

depending where you
live, public transport

is a viable option.

Not where I live,
unfortunately.

I think education
has changed

and I also think

that the current
generation

that's now about to
enter the workplace,

the market, if you like,

they want to hold
us responsible.

They want to hold
my generation

responsible and say,

what are you
doing about it?

You still have the
potential to make change.

And I agree with

the person from
Dubai, Mark.

I think in
environmental anxiety,

I genuinely
believe it's true.

>> Interesting.
It's one of

the reasons I
was anxious to

jump on this one with you.

I'm beginning to
feel that I'm

more out of
touch with this

than I even thought I was.

I was blissfully
focusing on lots of

other things and not

too bothered on the
sustainability side,

but with this talk and

some other things I've

been looking at recently,

I'm beginning to realize
that probably there

is more of that
anxiety around it.

One thing I want to
touch back on that

someone has asked
before we let you go,

and I just want
to make sure that

we pick you up
right on this,

when you were saying
about the ISOH 20121,

did you make
the point that

you found that
companies that

had the other ISO
standards that were

in there already
at that level,

did you say they actually

found it was
quite relatively

straightforward to then

navigate through
the 20121?

There's a good
portion of it

already covered as
such, is there?

>> A hundred percent.

So the basic requirement

for ISO 20121 is pretty

much very similar
to 45001,

you have to have
a functioning

health and safety
management system,

and that will be tested
as part of the audit.

The additional
evidence that

you need to provide
to meet the

clauses,\ it's
probably another

two or three months work.

I'm not even sure
I'm proud of this,

but a company from
Worcestershire

last year who
really did have

a good reason to
push forward,

and we're working
well within an

environmentally
conscious and being

aware of sustainability,

they asked me, could I

really push on and
help them deliver it.

And we did it in
three months.

But the only reason

we did it in
three months is

that they already
had 45001 and 14001,

though their management
system was being well

maintained by a competent

guy who knew his stuff.

What I'm definitely
not saying is,

and we will all have
had these emails

and messages
effectively asking us,

do we want to
buy standards?

There are companies
out there who will

for a fee put

your company's name into

a pre-prepared
response to the audit,

and potentially will get
through when audited.

I would say it's

completely irrelevant
doing that.

It's cheating, it's
unethical, it's immoral,

and you won't be able
to keep the standard

for anything more
than one year

because to maintain that

you'll be re-audited
after one year.

And the second-year audit

is all about evidence,

showing the data
you've produced and

being able to evidence the

statement you
made in Year 1.

So anybody who
gets those emails,

don't be tempted
because you'll

pay a lot of money and it

will only last
for one year.

>> Got you.

I think I have

some good advice
to wrap up on.

May I say also just
for the record,

any of those topics that

we haven't gotten
to touch on,

speaking for Chrissy and

myself and for the series,

we'll happily
have you back

every time we do a
series to talk on one

of them because I
do think there's

going to be
growing interest

in this field
all the time.

So I would be happily

saying that we could
do this once a year,

find a time
that suits you,

and get another bit of

this content
available for people

because there's
more and more

happening with this.
We're seeing it in

the market here
in Ireland.

Conversely to a lot of
the things in Saudi,

we're seeing it with

some of our
clients out there.

They're really
focusing on it,

and they have the budget

to go towards it, as well.

So they're doing
really cool things,

really progressive
things that are

winning awards and
having impact.

But then again, it's
that middle ground,

which I'm interested in.

Again, because of the
approach you take,

you're not talking about

mega-budget
Formula E stuff.

You're not just
talking about

what the local
festival does.

There is that plethora

of stuff in the
middle that

we can all have a look at

a list of stuff that
we know works and go.

Well, actually,
that I can achieve,

and next year with
a bit of work we

could do with some
of that and we

can all start chipping
away at stuff

that isn't really
expensive,

isn't really hard.

Again, maybe just
that some of

us hands up me included

have been conveniently
blinkered to because

we've had so much other
stuff to focus on.

So we'll happily
have you back

to talk about any of

that stuff and give
hints and tips.

That's on the
record now because

this is recorded
[OVERLAPPING].

It will be on YouTube.

[LAUGHTER]. So
we'll get you back.

You can pick which ones
you want to focus on.

We'll be very
clear with people

what will be covered
in that session

and they can join live
if they can and we can

make it available
after because I

do think it's going
to be a growing area.

Chrissy and I have
discussed it. It's going

to be a growing area that

people will be
interested in

finding straight-up.
honest information,

and content on.
I knew when we

talked to you about
doing this that

that's exactly
what you'd give

everyone and that's how
it would come across.

It wasn't you talking
about formula E and

the big budgets
and everything you

did so impressively
For so long,

that it's more so

grassroots ground-level
stuff that

we can all try
and implement it.

For that we're inclined.

[OVERLAPPING] This
is really good,

I think, so thank you.

>> I hope there's
some good tips in

the deck that we're
going to share.

>> [OVERLAPPING]
Will be there.

>> There's some good
websites on there

, good case studies.

And again, I have

genuinely got a concern

about events in Wales.

So anybody that's on
the call that is either

delivering or working on

events in Wales,
reach out to me.

I've already unpicked

the regulations for you,

and I'll send you
that document

as soon as you
reach out to me.

>> That's very good.
Thank you very much.

We'll put that
message out as

well when we're putting
up the recording

and we'll let people
know that piece of help

is there for those
operating in Wales.

[OVERLAPPING]
Thank you very

much. I enjoyed this.

>> Take care, everybody.

>> Cheers guys.