De wonderlijke wereld van de NAVO top Dutch Segments

I think that the threat
of Iran is existential for Israel.

So I think it is justified, yes.

NATO defends our safety.

Going to perform?
Are you going to sing?

If you sing along we will.

Allright I think....
what are we going to sing?

When are we going to sing a duet?

Not momentarily
Not momentarily...no that was a joke

Oh, that was a joke?

That's a pity, anyway,
in that case succes at the summit.

It was a joke.....

How stupid, sad wasn't it?

Well my favourite colour is blue,

but for the rest,
it doesn't interest me much.

How credible is NATO
as peacekeeping organisation

if you support an illegal attack
by a member state?

I'm afraid I do not agree
with that analysis.

No? No.

With wich part? That it is illegal?

Exactly.

And why wouldn't that be illegal?
I think it is

Excuse me, what did you say?

In my opinion it is justified.

Why does Israel have
the right to determine

if Iran can have nuclear weapons or not?

I think personally, that the
nuclear threat of Iran is existential

for Israel, so I think it is
justified, yes.

Well to my knowledge a lot of
countries are doing that,

asking Israel to more and more
to provide millitary help,

and I think that it also is necessary.

I have heard very few people
here within NATO

condemning Israels violence
in the way that you do.

You say Israel is using
disproportionate violence in Gaza,

I do not see other
people here doing that.

You will have to ask them, not me, but

I think I have been very clear
about that in the past

and I think it is important at this moment

that we help the Palestinians in the
Gaza strip as much as possible,

not forgetting in the meantime that Hamas
has attacked Israel, wich is also wrong.

So it is never black and white.

I think in this fase it is important

to help the Parlestinians with
humanitarian aid,

food and medical care, and that
there should be the focus now.

Do you think NATO at this moment
has a positive influence there?

With the United States and the
escalating movements?

Well, I find that difficult to say,

I think together here we
have to make clear

that we also ask Israel
to provide that aid

and that can show here the
strong side of NATO.

Allright, but then I will look forward
seeing you and mr. Sanchez.

We'll see you later, ok, goodbye.

Is NATO really a defensive alliance?

Absolutely

Absolute? Wich defensive wars
have we conducted sofar with NATO?

We are working all day to keep Europe
and the transatlantic territory safe.

But the past interventions in
Yougoslavia, in Iraq, in Afganistan,

weren't they all offensive?

Surely they were offensive, Afganistan
was in reaction to 9/11

According to me that was a terror attack
wich caused thousands of deaths.

So that was an example, I'm not going
to repeat all history here,

but this was an example, it was
in reaction to a terrorist attack,

and then the US invoked Article 5:
terror attack on NATO territory.

No, that may be but....

We're on our way to the next interview.

The operations, the wars in wich
NATO participated

weren't they actually offensive?

In Yougoslavia, in Afganistan,

with memberstates that are doing
that also, like now in Iran?

You are mixing up stuff here,

the participation of NATO in Afganistan
was at the request of Afganistan

with a mandate from the
UN Security Counsil.

Is NATO now a defensive alliance?

Absolutely!

And all those offensive wars,
Iraq, Afganistan?

But no NATO countries,
NATO defends our security.

So NATO never conducted offensive wars.

The only exception is
the bombardment in Serbia,

there was no mandate,

but that happenend, as the then sitting
UN Security Council president said:

'to prevent a humanitarian disaster'.

Goodmorning, what have you
come to do today?

I' came to visit the event here.

The Public Forum?

The Public Forum, Industry forum.

Everything!, about everything.

I'm heading towards the Industry Forum.

And why is that important?

To see what is happening, how we
can prepare as best as possible.

Prepare for what?

For all sorts of things.

What kind of things you mean?

I'm moving along so...

But what are you preparing for?

We prepare ourselves
for what might happen.

Meaning what?

The threat from Russia that
is felt by us at the moment.

Are we preparing ourselves for the threat?

We are preparing ourselves for the threat
from Russia that is happening daily.

Hmmm, isn't the threat already happening?

I'd rather see this interview
being terminated.

Mr. Brekelmans, what is your opinion on
NATO's need to become more deadly,

according to Mark Rutte?

Goodbye mr. Brekelmans.

What are you doing here today?

My work.

Your work, and what
is your work precisely?

Talking with the industry.

Talking with the industry,
with the weapons industry?

Yes, with the industry.

How do you actually plan to
pay for this 5% NATO norm?

Ofcourse we are going to...
for next year we opted for 2%

that is in our government budget,

and how it will be financed after
that is up to the next government.

But isn't that strange
to make commitments here

about budgets you have no say and soon no
actual calculations over?

We are now talking middle long term,
about the period 2032-2035,

it is always normal that commitments
are being made as a country.

But we also have elections every 4 years

and in the Netherlands
we have elections soon,

so it is logical that next governments
give substance to that,

that is always the case.

How will it go today?

Well, there's sunshine in the Netherlands
wich means things always go well.

You are confident about that?

Yes, full confidence.

The 5%, how will that be financed?

Yes, for the coming year,
the coming budget,

we already calculated that in,
because now we booked 2- 2,5 %.

That means the first step has been taken.

Yes, but 5%?

That is 3,5% for defense spending

and 1,5% defense related resilience
investments that we often already make,

so I am confident that it
will be working out well.

And the 5%, how do you feel about that?

Well look, the 3,5% that needs
to be put towards defense

I think it is a good thing,

I only think we to have a closer look
at how we are going to spend that.

The focus now is only on how much,

and at the same time we can
save a lot of money,

if we as Europe are going to jointly
buy the defense materials.

We could save up to
100 billion a year that way.

So I think in any case that
the discussion should be more about

how do we get more independent
from the United States

and how we as Europe, are going
to take care of our own security.

Where should all that money come from?

That will partly come from
fiscal arrangements,

presents for the supporters
like an exemption for agriculture.

Partly it should be paid for
by people with large assets,

and I think we also have to look at where
we can apply certain budget cuts

that may be necessary at this moment
to be able to pay for this.

Because Mark Rutte says we
maybe should do less

in the field of social services
and pensions, and this and that

I think that is not necessary at all

for that we have 30 billion in fiscal
arrangements

among wich the agriculture exemption.

With that we could pay
for a large part already.

For me the wealthy in the Netherlands
can probably make an extra contribution

and also we have to start
making European investments,

because that counts
for 100 billion per year.

That is 3 to 4 times
the Dutch Defense budget

so I think there are other ways of saving
and isn't it necessary

to make large budget cuts
on that what we defend.

And the fact that Donald Trump
is so vague about Article 5

does that worry you?

No because I have heard several
members of the American Government,

president Trump, as well as my collegue
Pete Hegseth, say on several occasions

that NATO is of utmost importance to them
and that they are committed to Article 5,

so it does not worry me.

Not at all?

No, until now, it has been
said consistently

and if it concerns Article 5, the
normal procedure always counts

that if something happens,
a country has to invoke that

and 32 members then have to
determine if that resorts under Article 5

and Russia executes many hybrid
attacks, that are just under that level

so that there is discussion
about Article 5, if it applies or not,

is a discussion already being
held for years.

And extra defense spending,
does that bring peace any closer?

I do think that eventually
the threat from Russia

and the battle Ukraine
is fighting at the moment

has awakened us all to the fact
that we have to take make sure

we can defend ourselves.

A good deterrent is part of it
and the only reason we do that

is to be able to keep the peace.

So we need to have such good weapons

for the Russians to immediately have no
chance, die immediately if we attack.

To make sure they do not attack anymore,
that would be the best deterrent.

But surely they won't do that anyway,
attack Germany or or Poland.

I do not know if you have ever
said that about Ukraine?

And then they invaded Ukraine....

They invaded Chechnya,
they invaded Georgia.

There are daily cyber attacks, also in
the Netherlands, also in Germany.

The threat at the Baltic States
is seriously felt,

so let's not be naive thinking
that Poetin will make a halt at Ukraine.

He has an imperialistic dream
of a greater Russia

and other countries also belong to that.

But in that case we just
keep spending more

and saying Russia will do that anyway

and Russia is thinking
NATO will spend more

so we have to spend more.

According to me we have made serious
spending cuts on our defense forces

in the last 20 years.

Because we were thinking
nothing would happen anymore.

We now have come back from that

and have to spend money to at least
make up for the budget cuts

from the past years

but also make sure our defense
is in good shape.

And the only reason we do that,
the most important reason

is that in the end the freedom we have,
to be who you want to be,

to see your friends, to have a job,
to get an education,

to have proper healthcare.

For all that we invest in our defense,
especially to be able to preserve peace.

Concerning Iran, we have always said,
and our European collegues agree

I noticed yesterday at the EU meeting
in Brussels.

We want to do whatever it takes to prevent
Iran from becoming a nuclear state

but we made it clear that we
want de-escalation in this battle

and that a way has
to be found to negotiations.

We do call on Iran to restart
the negotiations with the US

and they can also start negotiations
with the larger European 3

wich is the UK, France and Germany
and they are ready for that.

In the meantime,
we made clear in Brussels,

that I do not want any distraction
from the devastating war in Gaza

where I very much disagree

with the course the war cabinet of
Prime minister Netanyahu is taking.

About it's handling of the war and
the blockade of humanitarian aid.

For me that must be lifted immediately
and I really want to keep working on

a speedy ceasefire in the Gaza Strip.

I am invited in the framework of
scientists, thinktanks,

also high up politicians, millitary
command that gathers here today to talk

to listen to them,

and because I am also very curious
how NATO will perform

and what the future will hold, if they
could celebrate another 75 years +.

I was also asked to play a small part by
interviewing an American senator,

for me that's also interesting.

I saw you on the agenda, yes.

Yes that's correct, to interview
an American senator,

and ask him how large
the support from America,

mostly the political side of America,
Congress and the Senate, is for NATO.

We hear lots of stories about
can we still trust the Americans,

will the come to the rescue
if we would need them, etc. etc.

And that sort of questions
I would like to ask a senator like that.

It's also fun to do.

The CIA, among others,
and different American institutions,

they buy shares, they invest
in European defense startups

to exert more influence there.

Look, there are a few things,

I also think that the European
defense industry

must become independent
from the United States.

Of every 10 Euro we spend,
we spend 8 outside of Europe.

According to that I would say,
if we spend that much money,

let's make sure we build up our
European defense industry.

You mentioned there are
a lot of young startups

being partly taken over
by the United States,

that is also because often
young startups in Europe cannot grow

because there is not enough investment.

For that we as Europe,
have to pay more attention

and for instance finalise
the Capital Market Union

so money can flow towards
this sort of companies.

So as Europe, we have a lot to do

to make sure we can guarantee
that independence.

Welcome back mister Brekelmans.

Did you have a nice
time there, was it fun?

A performance? are you going to sing?

If you sing along, yes.

I think... what are we going to sing?

I have to think of a song
for when he comes outside.

Now I see him coming out.

Wait, turn to him, he came out,
what song are we going to sing?

Hmmm, Let it go, Let it go?
OK, we'll try Let it go.

[Laughter]

On camera, oh wait,
Eichelsheim is also here.

Hello mr. Brekelmans, when will we
start singing a duet?

Not for the time being.

Not for the time being, no it was a joke.
oh, it was a joke?

That's a pity, allright,
good luck with the Summit.

It was a joke.

How stupid, sad also.

Can we ask you also some questions?

Me? Ofcourse, where is the emergency exit?

Nice. Until when you have to stand here?

Probably till 6 o'clock, but
with some interruptions.

Are you allowed to hav lunch in between?
Yes, for sure, ofcourse.

That is allowed by NATO apparently.

They are obliged to,
you have to stay focused.

There won't be entering
any bad characters here.

No, but if I'm correct that
has been taken care of earlier.

You'd hope so.

But you are also inside
so that is ofcourse [laughter]

But it is true.

Fortunately yes.
Ok, have a nice day.