How to Negotiate Better Event Contracts (Episode 140)

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[BACKGROUND]

Welcome to GatherGeeks,

a podcast by BizBash,

the place where
people passionate

about meetings and
events come together.

Here are your host,
BizBash CEO David Adler

and Editor in Chief
Beth Kormanik.

>> Hi, David.

>> Hey, Beth, here we are.

Another GatherGeeks
podcast.

>> Our guest today
is Heather Reid,

CEO and founder of
Planner Protect.

She's a consultant for
event contracts with

an eye towards saving
event planners' money

and helping them
avoid risk.

She also has a knack
for translating

legalese to layman terms.

David, isn't part of

an event planner's job

to know how to
read a contract?

>> You would think so,

but my experience is

that most people
hate doing that.

I don't know what your
experience is in this,

but you think that

everybody would
be an expert,

but it glazes
people's eyes over,

especially the type
of people that

do event planning
in many cases.

So while there are

these great
logistical planners

that really look
at every detail,

I would say the
majority don't.

That's why today's podcast

is like the insurance

policy of insurance
policies.

>> Well, much of
this conversation

focuses on venue
contracts,

but the concepts can be

applied for any
kind of supplier

and service provided for

events that's governed
by a contract.

Heather is going to

share some
specific language

to look out for in
a contract as well

as a guiding philosophy
to approach contracts

and changing the terms to

protect both parties.
Let's take a listen.

>> So Heather, we're here.

I just saw you speak

on contracts and
how you save

planners' money by
actually reading

their contracts
for them and

giving them not
legal advice,

but giving them the
business advice

to help negotiate
better contracts.

Tell us what you
actually do.

Is that correct
and give us

a sense of what your
work product is

when somebody says,
I want to hire you.

>> Absolutely. Thank you
for the opportunity.

Planner Protect really is

about informing
an event host.

I'm an advocate
for the event

host, first and foremost,

how to reach a savvy
protective contract.

And as you said,

it's not through
legal wording.

Most venues have
an inventory

of clauses to access.

It is knowing
the questions to

ask to get to
a clause that

protects the interests and

the needs of the event
host and the venue.

So my end product to

a client is a written
report that literally

starts at the
very first letter

of the contract and ends

26 pages later with
the very last word.

And I look at every
single clause,

and I take apart
the words.

I do the math, I
check the dates.

I will go and do a floor
plan of the venue,

and to see if from

a meeting planner's
perspective,

can we create efficiencies

rather than meeting
space rental.

Things like that that

fresh eyes bring
so much value.

>> Are they fresh
eyes or are they

the only eyes
in many cases?

>> [LAUGHTER] Well,
they are a combination,

I would say, fresh
eyes, for sure.

But I know that contracts

are one of those
things that

planners are so inundated

with responsibilities
every day.

I equate event planning to

driving in a blizzard

with your bright
lights on.

You just don't know
where to look,

and contracts take hours,

and a lot of planners
don't have hours.

And so it's literally

check the dates,
the rates,

the space, and let's
get it off the desk.

>> So what's the
topline savings

that you talk
about in terms

of the bigger picture?

What would make an
event planner's eyes

pop out of their head when

you say how much you save?

>> So my tract over

the last five years is

on average a contract I

would save anywhere from

$27,000-$35,000 in
both a combination of

actual savings
and avoided risk.

So actual savings
are things

like looking for

some reduced food and
beverage minimum,

it's looking for meeting
space efficiencies,

it's looking for
concessions.

Avoided risk comes
in negotiating

really solid
cancellation terms

where damages are owed.

And it's taking a things

like negotiating based on

profit, not on revenue.

It's being able to say,

if I owe $100,000 minimum,

legally, I owe
the venue profit.

I don't owe them revenue.

And it's really informing

the event host and giving

them the questions to

ask to really negotiate

to get to those savings.

So our track record

is just shy of
$8.5 million

in avoided risk that
we've been able

to put back in the
client's pocket,

both in cash and
in avoided risk.

>> So if you
if you client,

an end user, a brand,

a company, etc,

and you have a third
party planner,

where is the true
responsibility,

and where do you see

the biggest lack
of knowledge?

Is it in third
party planner?

Is it in the corporation

that is ultimately
paying the bill?

Where does the
buck stop on this?

>> Well, my talk just

addressed the fact
that I believe

our event hosts
that hire us as

professionals are
looking to us

to be the wise counsel and

the savvy negotiators and

really masterful
at contracting.

I think we absolutely

cannot replace legal
counsel, absolutely not.

But I think we
also need to

come to the table far

better versed in

negotiation
tactics and what

to look for and
what to ask for.

>> The lawyer is not
your business partner.

The lawyer is your lawyer.

>> No. And actually,

in fact, with the
corporations that we've

worked with, what I hear
from those that have

access to legal counsel
internally is that,

a, either they
can't get the time

and attention that
they need from legal,

or hospitality is not

a banking lawyer or a
manufacturing lawyer.

Hospitality law is
entirely different,

and so they're out
of their element.

So yes, they can
look at the really,

really nitty gritty
things of protection,

but they're not looking at

what a meeting
planner would look

at in making a balanced,

good, thorough contract.

>> So you're actually
saying that there is

a risk in the idea

that the corporate lawyer

may not be the
right lawyer to

actually vet
something properly.

>> And I think in
the United States,

you're blessed to have

hospitality lawyers that
share what they know,

and I'm just blown away

by how much they

write and how
much they teach.

Here in Canada, I cannot

think of a single name

of a Canadian
hospitality lawyer that

stands out and really
speaks out and teaches.

And so we have a
real dearth of

knowledge here
that we need to

address to be as

savvy as our counterparts

on the other side
of the table.

>> So let's move a little

bit into the pitfalls.

Let's take five or

six that people
would understand.

What is the number one
issue that you see

in your world when
someone gives you

a contract from
the planner side?

>> That is a really
good question.

How long have you
got? [LAUGHTER].

>> Well, we want
to keep it short

so [OVERLAPPING]
glaze over.

We want to know
enough that

they can hire
you. [LAUGHTER].

>> Well, that's a deal.

I think there are a
couple of things.

Termination is one in
our industry where

when an event has been

impacted by something
beyond our control,

that's one that people
don't think about.

What are both sides?

What could impact
our event?

And that's a clause that
is rarely negotiated

with the planner or the
event host in mind.

Cancellation is one that,

and it's different
than termination,

cancellation, we
find venues always

protect themselves against

the client canceling,

but rarely do contracts

protect the client when

the venue wants to cancel.

So that, to me, is
right off the top hat.

>> On purpose.

>> Absolutely. Those
contracts have

been curated by lawyers

to protect the best
interests of the venue.

So it's not their
job to protect us.

I would say, concessions
are one that I

think whether they're
earned or whether

they are the venue

has the right
to revoke them.

>> English, please.

>> So if someone
was to say,

we offer you one in 40,

so if you pick up
40 guest rooms,

we're going to
offer you the event

host one
complimentary one.

So that's a concession

that someone
might ask for.

What I find with
planners is

that they allow
language that says,

if you don't meet

your standards
of performance,

so you're not meeting
your food and

beverage, you're not
meeting your guest room,

things like that, then
we have the right as

a venue to revoke
those concessions.

And yet, what
planners don't

understand is that when
there is attrition,

so you are paying because
you underperformed,

then you've made
that property whole.

Those are your
concessions.

The venue should not have

the right to
pull those back.

So there's that piece

that's missing
for planners.

And that's an
important one.

If you're counting on

having so many
complementary rooms,

you're counting
on free Wi-Fi

for your attendees,

things like that,
and those are

revoked because
of language.

That's really sad.

So I think attrition,

and as I said, that's
underperformance.

So when a client
comes in and they're

contracted to meet

a certain minimum
[OVERLAPPING]

>> Minimum meaning you're

going to get x
number of rooms.

>> X number of rooms or

an x dollar value worth

of food and beverage
for an event.

When a client comes in and

does not meet
those targets,

then paying the
difference between what

they actually did and

what they were
supposed to do,

that gap is
called attrition.

And it's the planner that
needs to know how to

negotiate that
attrition because

it's not just a
straight mathematical.

Here's what I was
supposed to pay.

This is what I did pay.

The difference
is what I owe.

That's not the case.

And here in Canada,
particularly,

we don't understand
the concept

of we pay the
profit, not revenue.

>> Can you re-emphasize
what that means?

>> That means, for
example, guest rooms,

the profit margin on
guest rooms for a hotel,

for example, the
industry standard

is anywhere
between 70-85%.

So if you had a
$100 guest room,

the venue would expect to

generate $70-85 profit
on that guest room.

Well, if we're in a
situation of attrition,

most contracts are worded

that we would owe
them the full

$100 on every room that
we did not consume.

But, in fact,
what we owe them

legally and as a
business law is that we

owe the profit they would

have generated if we

had actually
sold that room

to one of our attendees.

>> So do you
recommend changing

the language from
revenue to profit?

And that is a game
changer right there?

>> Absolutely.

And your American
system is very much

built and aware of

that one distinct
difference we are behind.

And I'm on a
mission here in

Canada that just that
one change can mean

so much between owing

$100 times 30 rooms
or $70 for 30 rooms.

That gap for a lot of

clients means that
they don't get to

add that frill
or they don't

get to add that little
special element.

>> What's next?

>> What's next?

>> What's next?

>> I'm in building mode.

I believe, at least
here in Canada,

this role for planners,

a support role is new.

Trying to show someone
the value just like we

onboard AV supplier and

we onboard a
registration system,

and we onboard decor,

I want planners to know
that they can onboard

a contract consultant
that will help them.

I believe planners
are project managers.

We're not needing to be

experts in everything,

we need to be if you
don't have resources.

But if you have resources,

then you build a team.

And one of the
team members,

I want someone like

myself to come in

and help them with
that contract.

>> Well, you're
showing that you

can control revenue for

the business in ways that

are completely obvious
in many cases,

that somebody should
be watching it because

most people don't
do that, right?

Would you say
that 50, 60, 80,

whatever percentage
don't even

look at contracts
and just sign them,

because they're
not professionals

or new in the
industry or whatever?

Would you say that there's

a huge issue with us?

>> Yes, and I'll
boldly proclaim that.

For professional
planners, I think time is

an absolute
critical factor.

We are so pressured.

For those that
are a DIY type

that are signing
contracts for

weddings or they're
signing contracts for

barmaids or whatever
the case may be,

they are absolutely
going in blind,

and they are risking
their shirt because

that contract is curated

to protect the venue.

>> So does a person do
who's a DIY person?

They're not
[inaudible] to hire

you. They're
getting screwed.

>> Yes, potentially.

And part of my message
was today was we are

complacent because events

come off every day,

and rarely does
something go wrong.

But it's when it goes

wrong that we need to

be protected. It's not if.

It's just when. So I

have not focused
on the DIY.

My legacy piece is
my own profession,

and I think we need
to start there.

And I can't take on
the whole beast.

I truly just want
to make a shift

in our own profession.

>> But I think
that through

doing this podcast today,

there's a dent
that we're making.

The experiential business,

the agency
businesses that are

spending money on
events like crazy,

you're probably not even

looking at anything
like this.

>> I would agree
with you. I actually

just had a wonderful
conversation

with a young girl
from a marketing

agency that is
doing events.

And when I was

telling her about
Planner Protect,

she went, OMG,
had no idea.

And there's a lot of that.

You assume that
things are okay,

and do we read

every contract for
a real estate?

Do we read every contract
when you sign up

for a telecommunication
service?

No, we don't, and
it's the same thing

when we're
planning events.

We don't read
those contracts,

and yet the liability
is completely

shifted to the one that
signs the contract.

>> And is it because

the venues lawyers
are smarter or

they're just more adept

at mitigating their risk?

>> In my experience,

and I can only say from

my own career as
a planner and

then the last five years
look helping others,

in our Canadian market,

particularly, every
supplier contract

is curated by a lawyer,

but rarely do
clients have it

in their budget
for legal review.

So it's not that

one is smarter
than the other.

I think there's just
an awareness that we

should be adding that
into our budget.

And it's just an
automatic non-negotiable.

>> We're going to take

a little break
and come right

back after this
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you. So what is the
difference between

the independent venue,

I know you talked about

that today a little bit,

and the hotel venue

and what you're
seeing in the,

you are kind of shocked

at the research that you

did on the
independent venue

versus the hotel venue.

>> Yes, and it was funny
because I thought,

well, those were curated
by lawyers, too.

When we look at

the clauses that
carry the most risk,

which are the
indemnification,

which is a promise to pay

if legal proceedings
are involved.

And then there's
termination,

which is an act that

is acted upon you
and cancellation.

And I found in

these 12
unconventional venues,

which included things
like a ski resort,

an amusement
park, museums,

there was a library,

a music hall, that
even in some cases,

they didn't protect
themselves from things

going sideways from
indemnification

or termination and things.

And so I found that
shocking, first of all,

but I think that

speaks to our
complacency here,

that, well, it'll work out

but it may not.

And our culture
is changing.

Our culture is very
much changing,

and we're using big
conglomerate contracts

that are really well

written in the hotel
industry, particularly.

It's being gobbled up

in there standardized
contracts,

and they are well crafted.

I gave the example
of six little words

that to a lay person
would mean nothing,

but when you look at

them and you read
them and you think,

what does that mean?

>> What were
the six words?

>> The venue has
the right to.

>> And what does to
explain how that impacts.

>> Well, so one of my
stories is a client

that allowed in
his contract,

the wording, the
venue has the right

to move his meeting space

to an equivalent space.

And what he ended up
with was not a ballroom,

but a wedding tent out
in the parking lot.

And the judgment
indicated that it

wasn't about the amenities

of his meeting space,

it was about the
square footage.

And so when you see

the words the venue
has the right to,

that is a scary
place to be

because there's
no collaboration,

there's no
discussion, there's

no mutual decision.

It's the venue has the
right to discussion.

>> What should it be?

>> And again, it's
about language,

but the essence of
it is that you want

to ask for discussion.

You want to ask
for collaboration.

>> In the contract.

>> In the contract,
that the venue

unless it's of an
emergency nature

where people's
lives are at risk,

they need to
have unilateral

right to do something.

But if it's around moving

your meeting space,
if it's around,

it escapes me right

now about another
situation.

But it's removing
the right

of the venue to just act
on their own merits.

It's saying, this
is a partnership,

and you need to consult me

before you move forward
with something.

The other one
is the client,

must notify the venue.

Those are another six
little words that

have big impact because

if a client's
expectations,

they have to do
something for

the venue and
they don't do it,

then that sets them
up for damages.

But yet, did you really?

>> What should that be?

>> Well, again, I
don't know what

it should be,

but what it could be
is that the venue

needs to notify the client

that there is a
decision to be made.

There's ways of working.

>> It's like a dual.

>> Yes, thank you.

It's collaboration.
We're in this together.

So in the case
that I gave today,

it was about the client
needed to notify

the venue of wanting

to take advantage
of attrition.

Well, he got stuck
with a bill.

But the wording allowed

the venue to do
exactly what they did.

The client wasn't happy,

but the client missed
those six words.

He said he had a
responsibility

to notify the venue
of something.

So it's just the nuances

that I pick out and say,

are you aware that if
you sign this as is,

these are your
responsibilities.

And this is what
they're saying to you

that you agree to XYZ.

So it's actually, a lady

say, you're an
interpreter.

And I'm like, that's
exactly what it is.

I'm an interpreter of
legal ease to layman.

>> And well, you're
the whisperer.

[LAUGHTER]

>> Perhaps.

>> But this applies
to every part of

our industry and
a photography,

videography,
augmented reality,

all the ease that
they're wise.

>> Absolutely.
Yes. Every element

of our particular
industry,

I believe, starts
with a good contract

and may end with
a contract.

Absolutely,
everything we do,

services, decor,
just everything.

>> So how do you
turn what you

do and scale what

you do so there
are other people.

You will be so

busy if everybody decides

they need to like
your service.

Are there other people
doing what you do.

>> I'm not aware of
someone that is actually

just hanging out their
shingles saying I

am a contract consultant.

I've looked for
them because I'd

love to find other pips.

But there are
absolutely other types,

so site selection is

one way they are focused
on the contract.

They get you the
venue, and part of

their expertise
is on contracts.

That's a different
business

model than what I have.

>> They get a commission
the property.

>> Correct, and
that's great.

And I just have never been

a part of that
business model.

But they obviously that's

all they work with
is contracts.

So they have some inherent skills in
negotiating and acting on behalf of the client.

The legal people,
obviously, they do.

Otherwise, it
really does come

down to the planners,

and there aren't
a lot of us.

I'm not an
arrogant person.

I absolutely don't want

to come across that way,

but I've invested

heavily in building
expertise.

And so there
aren't a lot of

us that take it to
the same depth.

>> Maybe we should
create a tribe

of people that they
can start connecting,

because I do
believe that this

has to be taught in

schools in really
efficient ways.

>> Absolutely. When
I first started in

Planner Protect was just
an idea in my head.

I was encouraged to do

a quick environmental
scan across Canada.

So I hired someone to
look at the colleges,

the post secondary
colleges and universities.

And at that time,
there was not

one full course in

an event management

hospitality
course that was

taught on contracts or
contract negotiations.

And to me, when it's
the underpinning

of everything that we do,

that needs to be 101,

201, 301. [LAUGHTER]

>> You see this. A lot
of conferences have,

we're going to do a
thing on contracts,

but it's lightweight.

>> You can't
possibly dig deep.

Actually, that was my
greatest challenge creating

a 35-minute
talk was really

keeping it high enough,

intriguing enough,but you
can't dig deep on anything.

You could be an hour on
each of my 52 points.

Like really literally
hours and hours

on some of them because of

the nuances in
the thinking and

the construction of a
really good clause.

>> So your 52 points,

these are all
the things you

talked about that earlier.

What is the last thing you

ended up putting
on the list of 52?

>> You know what? My list

is actually an
A to Z list.

I don't actually
have a formal,

like the top
10 list thing.

>> But there something
you added recently

that you've just
discovered?

>> I would say

it's the new angle
of attrition,

that new one that the

client just got caught on.

That it's, we've given

you your 80% attrition.

But now the client

needs to invoke
that attrition.

The client needs to say,

I want that attrition
at some point.

In my 25 years,

if you got the
80% attrition,

it was a given,
you just get it.

You get to the
invent and they say,

as long as you've met
80% pickup, we're good.

Now they've nuanced
it to say, look,

now you have to
tell us if you want

that 80% pickup
or the minimum,

which I find a
little sneaky.

>> How do you
deal with rev par

and contracts now with

people going in
the hotel world,

in the weeds here
a little bit,

where people go
around the contract,

so get the rev par rates,

the lower rates
from hotels to

night and things like

that at the same places.

>> That I'm out
of my league on.

>> That's a
business issue.

>> Yeah. I can't
speak to that at all.

>> And did you also watch

the Netflix Fire
Festival Documentary?

>> No, I did not
know it was out.

I actually followed
very carefully

the actual event
and how it unfolded

and some of the articles
about it afterwards.

But I didn't
know there was

a document until
it came here.

So now that this is done,

I will absolutely
be watching it.

>> You will be horrified.

>> Yeah, I'm sure I will.

>> I was horrified,
as well,

but I also from a
contracting point of view,

realize that
marketing people

are even more at risk than

the planning
committee they

are dealing with
bigger dollars

that can easily go

off the rails so
much more easily.

>> Yeah.

I think there's a really
big opportunity for

our event industry to
really step up and say,

this is why you want to
hire a professional.

What is that saying

about if you want
to save money,

hire an amateur
and then you'll

find out how expensive
an amateur is thing.

I'm paraphrasing
wordsmithing. But it really,

truly is and I find
this about contracts,

people almost need
to make a mistake

before they will really
truly sit up and say,

I need help,

I don't know what
I don't know.

>> So as we end,

do you have any thoughts
on what's really

screwed up with the
system entirely?

Forget finding the
legal problems,

but are you seeing
something that is

really wrong with the
way it's working,

the whole the
industry approach?

>> I would say that

monopolizing the buyouts
are not helping us.

>> So explain
what that means.

>> Well, to me, I'm

all about creating
balance in a contract.

It's not about it's

a win for me and
it's a loss for you.

It's about coming and

saying, at the
end of the day,

we've both met
our objectives,

finding ways to do that.

We don't always
get what we want,

but we need to
get what we need.

And I find that I am
hearing that there are

venues that don't
want to come

to the table prepared
to negotiate.

It's our way
or the hiding.

>> There's so
much a monopoly

that they're going to

just not even think
care about you.

>> And there are planners

that say, well,
why bother?

>> But are you seeing
that with the Star.

Well, the Marriott's
of the world?

Are they flexible?

>> I will not speak
about a brand.

Every single contract is

absolutely unique
to that event.

>> But the big brands,

have they put their will

in this is the
way it's going to

be in my way of
the highway?

>> Well, I think
every brand

presents a draft contract

thinking that that is

the way it's going to be.

There are people there are

salesforce that are

willing to have
discussions.

And one thing
I've learned is

you don't take
the first no,

absolutely, and you
need to speak to us.

>> How does a
event planner

get to the second or third

no? What do they do?

>> The number one thing
to do is to ask to

speak and negotiate
with a person that

has the power to
change the contract.

>> And who
normally is that?

>> It may very well be

a salesperson
that is seasoned.

It may not be the
junior salesperson

that is following
a script.

But I'm all for

teaching that
junior salesperson,

and I've done that
on more than one

occasion where it's like,

I need this, and this
is why I need this.

I want to work with
a salesperson,

but the person
that also has

the leverage to be
able to change it.

I think that's where
planners also need

to assert
themselves and say,

I'm not going to
take the first no.

This has to be
for both of us.

>> How far up the
line, usually, is it?

>> Director of Sales.

>> Director of sales.

>> And there have
been cases where I

know definitively
has gone to the GM,

because they're the
ones that will make

the final decision
of whether

a clause that has

been suggested
and the intent

of what we're requesting

needs to come from a GM.

>> So what happens, sorry

I'm asking more than I

thought you give me that.

What happens
when it goes to

a litigious situation
is it just go

directly when the GM

when there's
some infraction,

it's being adjudicated by

the lawyer of
the property?

>> I would assume so.

I luckily knock on wood,

and I'm going to
literally knock on wood.

I have not been involved

in that front
line of it going,

but it may be because I'm

Canadian. [LAUGHTER]

>> I don't think so.

I know you're
something else.

>> But I know
that planners

like Joan Isenstadt,

for example,
in the States.

I know she has been
professional witness

or key witness
for event hosts.

I have not been
in that position,

so I'm not aware of that.

But I know that's above

my expertise, for sure.

>> So let's end

with how do people
get in touch with you

and hopefully
they plan more in

advanced as
opposed to when

they have to hire you.

>> My website is
plannerprotect.ca.

And the CA is

I'm proud because
it's Canadian.

However, I have
worked with

American clients and
with international.

So don't let the CA
extension scare you.

>> It's .com, too.

>> No, I don't have .com.

But I'm not that
big yet, David.

But yeah, through the web

and my email is
very simple.

It's just Heather at
plannerprotect.ca.

And really, what I'd

love to have is just
a conversation.

To me, if I can
at least shed

some light and
share something,

it's not all
about hiring me.

It's where can I

point you in the
right direction?

I have a feature
on my website.

It's a 15-minute
complimentary call

because I'd
rather talk you

through something
that you're than

feeling you have
to hire someone.

Obviously, I
would love to be

hired and come
alongside and

be a partner,
but that's not.

>> You have a work
product that you actually

do so that they
would hire you for?

>> Absolutely.
Yes. I actually

had a young girl
here today.

Can I get your
list, and I'm like,

that's taken
me 25 years to

curate and for a fee?

Yes. [LAUGHTER]

>> This has
been fantastic.

Thank you so much,

and we'll look forward

to seeing how the world

changes based on
what you're doing.

>> Well, thank
you. I have to say

such an honor
to be with you.

I have looked forward
to this event for

the specific reasons of

meeting you. So thank you.

>> Thank you so much.

>> David, we're back
in our podcast studio,

and now everyone knows
to look for the terms.

The venue has a right to,

and the client must
notify the venue

when were these things

that stuck out
to you before?

>> I really took
mental notes so

that I really learned

a lot from listening
to Heather,

and it really made me
think how important

this is to our industry

and every part of life,

really in what you do.

And she does it in
such a nice way.

So you think of it less

as something that's really

an awful thing
to think about.

But she really made
it fun, actually.

>> As an event
planner, you want to

believe that
your venues and

suppliers are partners in

your success and
pulling off an event,

but Heather shared
some horror stories.

Can you even
imagine planning

a ballroom meeting
and having it

move to a tent

and without even
a conversation?

>> Yeah, well, that's
why contracts are good.

Contracts are your friend.

It's true most
of the time.

>> Obviously, on that venue
part, it's shortsighted.

The venue burned
that relationship

with the client and

that meeting planners
going to tell

her colleagues
and friends.

But the question that

Heather wants us
to think about is,

was this situation
addressed in the contract?

>> Exactly. Well,
it was interesting.

I was watching her,
she was the keynote at

our Go West
conference that

we had in Edmonton
this year,

and you watched everybody

paying attention to
her like their life

depended upon it
because they knew that

one tip could be

the thing that would

save their lives
completely.

>> Well, it's like

their jobs depended on it.

>> Their jobs
depended on it,

their careers
depended on it.

And it's the thing where
those details were

the thing that you

will pull back from

your memory banks one
day when you see it,

and it will help
you tremendously.

>> So the idea here is

to know what to
look out for.

But if even after
this podcast,

you're still intimidated
by contracts or

your eyes glaze
over, as you said,

David, here's a resource
for where to turn.

>> And there are not

many people doing
what she's doing,

which is what I found
really unique about it.

Beth, what is going on

at BizBash this spring?

> Yeah, we passed

the first day of
spring, happy spring.

>> I know happy spring.

>> It's a great time to

talk about event design.

Last week, we published

our roundup of design
highlights from

Winter Benefits and Galas

from across North America.

We're also covering
DIFAs dining by design,

which is co located with

the Architectural
Digest Design Show.

>> That is always
one of my favorites.

>> Yes. Well, you can get

a preview or anybody
can get a preview

on our Instagram
and then look for

a coverage of that
coming up this week.

>> Great. So before
we end our podcast,

we always like to thank

the people that
put it together,

just like we like to thank

the people that put
our events together.

So we want to do

a nice shout out
to Claire Hoffman,

who does all the
editorial duties

for the podcast and
Rebecca Pappas,

that gets it out there,

and Dave Nelson, who
is our producer.

So thank you for doing
all your hard work.

We appreciate
everything that

you do for the podcast.

And with that, what
do we say, Beth?

>> Gather on.

>> Gather on.

>> Thanks for listening
to today's episode.

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We hope you'll
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Until then, gather on.