Gem - Prior to Identity.mp4

Prior to Identity - What Are You?

24 March 2025
(with subtitles)

Q1: I just feel to bring myself forward
into what you're sharing.

Two days ago, maybe, we spoke in satsang,

on Friday, I think, three days.

And you were saying that

you are pointing us towards something
that is not a duality.

You said that what you ...

To put the attention onto the Self,
which is not a duality.

That's what I heard from ...

Because I was complaining about something,
about states.

I mean, I don't know,
that's the only thing that I really remember

from what you shared with me.

M: I have to treat things
when you speak like that,

the minute I see something edible
in what you speak,

I stop right there and say,
let's make a meal out of that.

As there's a tendency,
and we all know it,

that we begin to speak,
and roll on to the next and the next thing.

And nobody comes away with any depth.

I'd really encourage ...
This is why I said,

I'm here just for the duration of the coffee,

and let's see if we can take the best
out of this moment together.

So, already you said something,
that from what you heard,

I was pointing to put your attention
on that which is not dual.

Already it's a strange thing to say,
because, Attention,

and, On that which is not dual,

meaning that, actually,
even the 'putting attention'

is already an action happening
in the thing which is not dual.

If you don't understand it,
I'll try another way,

because I'm not here
to just impart concepts,

and all this kind of stuff, you know?

I'm just here ...
Tomato sandwich, everything is edible.

It has to be like that.
So if you don't understand, you say.

Or you let it go, it's okay.

So for you, if you heard that I said

to bring your attention,
or put your attention,

or I said,
Bring your attention to that which is non-dual,

how do you proceed with such a thing?
What do you do?

And anything you say,
like with your mind being ...

There's nothing clever about it, actually.

M: Truth is not clever, you know.

M: The mind is clever.

M: What does it mean?
Because there's sufficient power,

possibility for something very, very...

I don't know what word ...
I can't even say 'valuable'.

Maybe for the sense of a person,

it'll be the most valuable,
if you understood this.

You'll only understand it
if you have the urge to understand it.

Many people are content
with a kind of knowledge about something.

Knowledge is always 'about' something.

So what I'm speaking is not 'about' anything.

It's ... What is here, what is here,
that is not someone's achievement?

It's just, what is here.
I don't think...

This is not a question that's
going to interest so many people, actually.

You want something new.

You want something
to react and to be excited about,

or to feel,
'Ah, I've got that', or something.

Q1: Can I say, Babaji?
M: Yes, I was waiting for you.

Q1: It feels like,
if I were to take what you say,

then the perceiving happens.

What I perceive is other,

like for the mind, like if there's ...
What I want to say is,

like the act of recognition
is something perceivable.

Like the mind recognising something
is a duality.

M: The mind, or you call it yourself,
it doesn't matter,

for me it's the same thing.

You perceiving anything is an act of duality.

We have no issue with duality!

All experiences are based mostly on duality.

I'm not here to wipe out experience.

Q1: Yeah, I think this came that I spoke
to you on Friday,

because I was really, I was ...

Somebody said to me,
Layla said to me,

'Don't you have a pointer
which works for you when these states come?'

And I was like,
'Actually, no. I struggle.'

When I sit with what you share,

that even the act of perceiving is perceived ...

M: You who you say 'struggle',

is that not also a kind of construct,
this 'you' who is struggling?

It's very subtle here,
but I'm shooting right in. I'm not, I'm not ...

M: Even the sense of struggling,

and the most unquestioned assumption,

this, 'I am struggling, I am struggling',

everybody will take you at your word,
'I am struggling' ...

I said, Yes, yes, this is understandable.

But there cannot be any struggling
without the 'I'. Is there?

So they are connected.
That 'I' that says, 'I'm struggling',

and the struggle, they go together, isn't it?

So before they even come up,
what is here, also?

What even says, 'Oh yes, I struggle?'

Is that not somehow that,
this one who is struggling

and what it's struggling about,
are just a movement?

And in a little bit
we're going to have another reading.

It's only a play of time and mind.

Now, this thing ...
Ten minutes ago you said you were struggling.

'Oh, no. Not anymore.'
So everything is time-bound!

We give so much time
to something which is passing.

Long after you're finished with it,
somebody's still struggling with it,

trying to suck your bones;
when you're already gone!

So, this is ...
I wonder if this is too much?

It's so, so simple.

If you search for something with the mind,

which is a natural thing,

you're going to keep finding things to ...

From this thing to that thing,
new links, and so on.

It's natural, a natural thing.
I'm not fighting with the mind.

I'm just trying to show you,

who and what and where you actually are.
And who you actually are!

When you say 'I', what is ...

All of this is based upon this simple thing,
this feeling of 'I',

and what you take this 'I' to be.

And you see yourself from your talk as an 'I',

as a person, in a location,

in a certain situation,
trying to get somewhere.

For me, all of that is ...
Just like we're sitting here,

they say, 'Where were you?
What did you do, Guruji?'

We stopped in Bonanza,
had a couple of coffees ...

We can talk like that.
What's the value? Nothing. Nothing, really.

What is ...
I am only pointing you. What is unchanging?

What is unchanging about you?
No matter what situation.

And it's not a mental answer you can give.

It's a recognition, you see.

Because once you really grasp this,

you won't be talking,
'This thing happened and that thing happened'.

So it's okay.

From when you wake up
happenings are happening. Isn't it so?

Nothing's wrong.
It's okay, let them happen.

But why put yourself in the mix?

'This thing happened to me
and I met so and so.'

And you present that as a fact about you.

So, I don't know. I have to feel.

I'm throwing a hook out on a thing.
I feel, who will come? ...

It's nothing. So we can leave this.

M: We can talk about something else.
Q1: Can I say?

M: Yes, go on.
Q1: It feels like the act of perceiving,

the function of perception is what is constant,

at least, during the waking state.

M: Yeah, it's kind of going on.
What is aware of this?

What causes awareness of that?
Is that going on?

Speaker 1: Guruji?
M: No, no.

Digest this first.
It's the same food for everybody.

Don't move on to something else. No.

You see, from your standpoint
of asking a question,

it's not satisfied with my answers.

You see?

So, one is a meat eater,

they're not going to be satisfied
with vegetarian food. So, you see?

If you come from your mind,

it wants an answer so it can go,
'Aha! I got that.'

But guess what?

Tomorrow I'll see you again
with your head in your hands, and ...

That will never be for your true Self.

What's the value in your true Self?

What's a true Self? Is there such a thing?

We're all so unique, so individual.

'Stand up in your uniqueness.
You're individual.'

That can be there, too.

But it itself is a river flowing by.

You can't catch that guy.

It's just the mind.

You are calling your mind 'you'.

Which life allows you to do.
You can call your mind 'you',

until you realise,
'There's nothing quiet or still here.

It's always a river flowing by.'
Thank God for sleep.

You're aware,
'I have no issue with the mind, the mind is ... '

When you're clear about who you are,
the mind is beautiful!

It's revealing all this!
Consciousness is revealing through the mind

all this diversity which we can enjoy.

You can have the feeling of bitter and sweet,

and all of that is fine. It's okay.

Life and death, also,
is part of the mix of the show of the mind.

Life and death, you and me,
this and that, coming and going.

All of that is in the mind. It's fine!

I'm not trying to rub out the mind.

When you don't have an issue with the mind,
the mind is beautiful!

How did you come to an issue with the mind?

When you have strong identity,
which is also shaped in the mind.

But prior to identity,
before you touch identity, what were you?

Because since you touched identity,
you have never been still ...

'Now, I'm fine, fine, fine.'
Next ...

Once you touch identity,
you're in the flowing river of the mind.

So, you are looking for stillness,

but even if you attain some stillness
from the mind,

at a certain point, you're going to be bored,

'Now I'm bored. Now I want some action.'

So that stillness is not true stillness!

It's only a pause in the stream of ...
A seeming pause.

You have to be desperate
for what I'm speaking!

You want to be entertained,
'Oh, yeah, okay I got that'.

'I' got that', and you preserve your identity.

You'll preserve your identity
as the one who got something.

Tomorrow, where is it?

'Well, today I have another thing.'
So it goes on and on.

And it's okay, because thankfully,
somewhere along all of this,

there's a subtle refining happening.

I have to assume that,
because you're still here!

Otherwise, go. Go back to this place.
Go and flow along with your river.

What keeps you here?
There must be something.

There's some vitamin
that is feeding something.

Because, actually, if you are genuine,

your mind won't like these conversations,

because it's exposing something,

that the person
is not actually reliable and real.

So the mind aspect of the person is not so ...
It wants to enjoy.

It wants to even have knowledge about the truth,

but it doesn't want to be the truth.

How can it be the truth, like this?
So this is what I'm pointing.

Q1: When I see this,
because you expose this play inside of me.

When I see this play,
it's like there's no separation.

But there's always the chance to offer,
and I just offer that.

As I can see what you say,
the mind doesn't want what you speak.

Q1: It doesn't.
M: Why doesn't it want what I speak?

... We can speak about a lot of things
and the mind is happy.

We speak about
a lot of things the mind is happy about.

Why would it not be happy about this?

Q2: Because it takes its food out, or away.

M: It takes the food away?
It's not just that it takes the food away.

Partly that, but it exposes the fraudulence,
the fraud of it,

which is part of the universal game.

We can say it's God's game.
We can put it like this, also.

It has to be a game to win it, or to lose.

So that's part of the game.

But the player of the game
is included in the game, for the time being.

But there is something earlier
than the player and the game.

The one ... Before you became a player,
you were not a player.

So the spectator to the game
is not suffering the game.

It's not easy to understand with this.
[points to the head]

[Q1 speaks inaudibly]
[dog barks]

M: Yeah, yeah.

[dog barks]
M: The dog is barking.

Hearing, action-reaction is happening,
in that which is not happening.

M: Can you relate or not?
Group: Yes.

M: That's all you need to know.
But really keep knowing it because

very easily the mind
wants to make a story of this.

'We're sitting in Bonanza, we're talking,

and this crazy dog starts barking,
and, whew! It's just really ... '

You make this and boom, there you go! Ciao!

... Life, mind, dog barking. [mimics noise]
Reaction happens.

But still, to the being,
nothing happened to that place!

Not because it's reacting against happenings,

because it's not involved in happenings.

That is your greatest space!

Because as you begin to realise this,

you can almost go anywhere in the world.

Not to prove this!

Go about your business.
You'll find that you do very well.

You're not rejecting anyone,
not judging anyone.

It's as though there's a harmony,

an underlying harmony within
and underneath everything.

This is not a teaching, not a philosophy.

It's natural for everybody!

Even for the barking dog it's true.

Something inside that barking dog
is not barking, is not disturbed.

Why do I say that?
Because he's conscious also.

Consciousness is in that dog, also.

You must understand the game,
understand your play. It's not a trick.

We are all here in this body,

in this experiential body,
experiencing this amazing,

an amazing dot in the universe called Earth,

and all these things going on.

They all appear in the mind
because of consciousness.

But in every moment there is a possibility

of slipping behind the scene.
And Just Be.

Still, 'Have a coffee?' Yes.
'What do you want? Galão?'

'No, I want a black coffee.'
All these things can be there.

But when you have a strong identity,
you become the ...

Something changes. You become something.

Which is okay, we have done it before.
Maybe many lifetimes we've done it.

No big ...
It can go on for more lifetimes also!

There's no God waiting,
'Will you hurry up and come home?'

M: No, we can go.
Q3: But it is very painful, Guruji.

M: The pain is a gift.
Q3: Yes.

M: Because pain and difficulty help us
to break the habit.

Q3: There is kind of an urge to fast-forward

Q3: this refinement that you speak about.
M: Again, sorry?

Q3: There is some urge to fast-forward

this refinement that you speak about.

M: You don't have to fast-forward.

Neither forward nor backward.

In the midst of all this dynamic,
there is a stillness.

The stillness is greater than the dynamic.
The dynamic is time.

And all things born in time
are time and change.

But the beingness is not ...

You see, it gives rise ...
It's the cause of it.

The author writes a book. Very dynamic.

The author is in the book,
and the author is

apart from the book also.

It might sound a little bit too ...

M: Yeah. [Mooji nods at someone.]
Speaker 2: Bom dia.

M: Yes.
Q3: Because when we sit like this,

Q3: your words, what you're speaking of,
it feels ...

M: Is?
Q3: It feels like it's happening inside.

Q3: It's not apart from ...
M: What is not happening?

M: You see, we are all affected by happenings.

What you call a happening,
someone else says it's not a happening.

What you're excited about,
someone may even be depressed about.

Another one is not touched by it.

So can anybody here

make an assessment about anything here,
which is true for everyone?

So, your experience of the world

is a very private, subjective, momentary event,
because the next moment

somebody wants to remind you of it
and you're not interested anymore.

Everything in the life that's appearing

through the mind and the senses
is like that.

Everything is flowing. It's okay!

We're not having issues with the flowing river.

But when you confuse yourself
as the flowing river,

'I'm going so fast! I'll crash into that rock ...'

I say, Wow,
you're going to be tired very soon.

You say, 'I'm tired already!'
The true witness of this is not tired.

Nor are they against the river.

They let the thing flow.

There's an aspect of ourself which is flowing,

you can say the dancing consciousness,
and the still consciousness.

It's very, very worth knowing this.

Otherwise you experience chaos all the time.

We can experience moments of chaos.

You're the dynamic body.
You can't just chop it off.

So you can experience pain
and a bit of loneliness,

but they don't become a crisis,

because the deeper awareness underneath them
is somehow untouched.

Even at the point of death,
it's there untouched.

If we are conscious of it!

So you need to be conscious
of your consciousness.

In this life, so far, something is,

some pulsation is in you
to search for this thing.

And it's a complexity for the mind because

it's not what we are conditioned to look like.

It's almost like

being in the river,
and then trying to understand its speed.

I said, No, but something is aware
of the river flowing by.

But your experience is that
you're flowing by.

'The river is going too fast,
could you slow it down?'

I said, No, learn to be a witness a bit more,

and you'll find that witnessing
is actually very natural.

And pleasant and true.

'Shall I put my hands in my pockets,
and watch life go by?'

No, this body is also the river of life, doing.

I'm not speaking like, This is obvious.

One time, this was not at all obvious for me.

But with a little bit, some guidance,
grace came,

and, somehow, something inside was ready,
without knowing it's ready.

You just found yourself in a certain place
listening and connecting,

and feeling puzzled and intrigued

and interested and resistant,

and interested and resistant.

But something ... I was being roped in
by something. By who?

[laughter]

I say by one's own beingness,
it's roping you in,

but you don't realise it's your Self.
It's the Self. But it's not personal.

You can't really explain.

So therefore, I see everybody
in the same kind of light,

we're all being pulled by some magnet
that you don't understand.

But you think, 'I'm not interested today.

I like and sometimes I'm very interested but ...'
It's like this.

It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay.

When it's the time to, somehow, it just ...

It stopped making sense. And just Is.
Do you understand?

Yes, at the moment, you're trying to connect,

'Ah, okay. But what if and ... '
We have to do this, also, for a while.

But as it really begins to ...

You know, when you put the,

when you heat the oil
and you put the food in,

initially there's a lot of
[makes loud sizzling sound].

But later on it settles down
and becomes very quiet.

Your mind becomes like this,
very quiet, somehow.

[Mooji is shown a photo message on a phone]

It says, 'Mushrooms are ready'.
Because we were on the road

and we saw somebody
with some stuff on the road.

And I said, Oh, what's this?
I think I remember these.

I had these before, maybe 30 years ago.

It was like some mushrooms.
I was looking and said, Ah.

So the man was there, I said,
Are you selling these things?

[Mooji imitates the old man]
Old man, 'Oh'.

I think it's the same one.
They look like ...

They don't look like mushrooms to me.

So we bought a bag.
I tried to contact the guys to say,

Have you seen this kind?
You know what this is?

We bought a bag and I just took them back.

I asked the guys,
Could you clean that and fry it for me?

Because I had this once before in butter,
they're delicious!

So I said, Okay, can you guys do that?

If it's nice, if it's really the one I think it is,

I'll get some more of them.

So I'm just telling you,
if you put something in oil,

at first the oil [plips then loud sizzle] like this.
It settles down.

Then she showed me, they say,
'The mushrooms are ready'.

[laughter]

M: Thank you. [laughs]

Like this. And you will find, actually,

when you are living
by the speed or the temperature of your mind,

you are not so much in synchronicity.

And actually, as I said,

personal identity is really the cause
of all suffering in the world,

because the person is not your true ...

It's not the truth of you.

It's a form of mind.
And nothing of mind is stable.

And the state of personal identity
is a state largely of some insecurity.

And this insecurity is afraid to be exposed
because it contains a lie.

That's why there's so much
conflict between people.

So you try to find people who are like you
that don't challenge you.

Q4: Guruji, may I say,
I feel like there is a prayer

for God to keep making being a person hurt,

to keep making a person be difficult,

Q4: because, and so I ...
M: Yes.

Q4: There's really that prayer, actually.
M: Yes. It's a very rare prayer.

She asks,
'My prayer is that the person keeps hurting'.

M: So she can give it up.
Q4: Even to bring this challenge that forces me,

Q4: continues to force, in a way,
I do have this prayer,

Q4: 'Please keep helping me'.
M: We were talking about our brother Michel.

M: He could have been
any one of you sitting here.

We were there, one year ago
we were talking like this.

Yesterday, I went to his cremation.

He became sick with a tumour in the brain.

But this tumour helped to set him free.

Because when your life force is going,

you don't have time for your bullshit.
You don't.

So a lot of things are by grace, somehow.
Acid grace.

Some things you're not interested in.
'All this, not interested.'

They drop away. They drop away.
They drop away.

In the last few days, we regarded him,

'You are an avadhut. You're an avadhut.'

You don't have time
for all these philosophical discussions

and all these things.
Why? It hurts.

Leave it. Leave all this stuff.

Leave all this stuff
and you become clean and bright.

Miracles begin to manifest around you.

It's said, 'But why doesn't it just come back,
my energy?'

No, he wasn't even asking for this.

You're healthy, fit, 'Oh, go ride a horse'.

You don't have time to look.
It's part of the play of life.

You may think it's unkind.
It's full of kindness! Full of goodness!

Why? Because God gives us something
called, 'Your choice',

and your urge brings you your experience.

You may not be sure or clear about it.

But we are living our choice.
You're living your concepts.

What you believe becomes your perfume,
or odour,

if you want to call it, it brings like this.

And so much of what we are thinking

has to fail a little bit, it has to hit the wall.

It has to hit the rock
to shake off the untruth of it.

Because the mind is not the instrument for Truth,
in the higher sense.

A relative truth, phenomenal things,
'This is good, this is bad', that's there.

But all of you came here.
You're not even aware that you came here

because a force brought you here
for Self-discovery!

But the part of us that
still wants something in the world ...

Still at each other ...
All these things are still there.

But underneath that,
something calls you for the highest thing!

Part of us is still [makes angry sounds]

aspiring for worldly things and stuff,
it's in us.

I can't blame and say, You!

It's just the nature of the game.
It's like that.

And it is said that God said,
'You will seek me, you will search for me.

... And you will find me only when you search

with all your heart, your mind,
soul and strength.' What does it mean?

Because everything else is cheap!

And to find the thing which is most precious,

we have to go through the desert,
we have to go through the storm.

It's coming to you.
And at first, the mind doesn't want it.

It wants just compliments
and beautiful things.

But sometimes it takes this roughness
to refine.

Like I say, they get some stones ...
You go to some beach,

you see all these beautiful round pebbles ...

Beautiful [from] a lot of refining, washing.

Sometimes it takes ... Not for everyone.
Some in amazing ...

We're not on the same layer of our potential.

Our capacities are different, no?

So, this is beyond your family's reach.

You may be one in your family
that goes beyond, in terms of your capacity.

You may be the one who wakes up.

And maybe your family
doesn't have any value for that also!

Or they may. Or they may come to.
It doesn't matter.

It's not worked out like that.
Somehow something is going like that.

So, it is a little bit of a tug of war,
a little bit of a struggle,

'Yeah, but ... '
'But ... Da da da ... '

But gradually, gradually something comes.

You know, in my own case,
it was not like that to start.

I was doing my life, moving about,
having adventures and whatever.

And I met somebody, seemingly by chance.
I met somebody,

a young man, a Christian man,

who's just come in a sort of funny way.

Like, I was making stained glass.
He saw and ...

Anyway, we met.
And then I quickly liked him.

I thought, Wow, he's not pushy.

He would talk, and seemed very reasonable
and very open, interesting.

I never spoke to anybody ...
Usually religious people are pushy.

But he was just very much like this.

And quickly I came to a place
that one day I asked him,

When you pray again, will you pray for me?

And he said,
'Yeah. But we can do that right now'.

So he prayed for me and then I ...

When he did, myself also, I asked,
God, please help me.

I want to grasp
what he's sharing with me in my heart.

That same evening, that same evening,

I'm delivered from all this stuff.

Do you understand?

And still after that,
I spent six years in London, moving about.

I gave up my job and stuff ...
Something was being carried by this force.

But when it was time for another step up,

this force took me to India.

Because I had to find out something more.
I didn't know what it was.

It can pretend to be like this and that,
but it comes.

And it was to come to this path of the ...

this Advaita path, of the Ultimate!

It's like the walk with God, and like this.
It's a path of

evolving.

The path of non-duality is dissolving.

But both lead to the same thing,
the same place.

But it happened. I don't know ...
You may not know where you're going.

You just feel, 'Yes', in your heart.
'Take me this way!'

And the wise power, which is in you also,

beyond your regulated mind,

it takes you there, more and more.

And it's behind coming here also,
talking with you. It's the same thing.

Q2: Guruji, I take your path.

M: My path is very simple. Very direct.

Other paths are more slow and winding,
maybe, I don't know.

Each one must go on their path.

But when I have the chance
to point directly to something,

but it's not a something
that comes from your mind.

Before the mind, when you come to this,
then some, some ...

The force of habit wants to go a certain route,

where something confronts,
you say, 'No, leave that. Leave that.'

'Come here.' This.

When you're able to listen,
then [exhales] you can be relieved.

For all paths, they take time to go somewhere.

But the direct path,
it reflects that which is already here.

But you have to be ready for that.

And nobody knows if you're ready.
Even you don't know.

Q2: This listening is here, not here.
M: What?

Q2: The listening you just mentioned
is more in here [heart].

And when I meet you,
something here just expands.

M: The kind of listening I'm talking about,

is like, it leads to a revelation.

Not listening and then I think,
'Okay, now I'm going to ...'

It's as though ...
It's like you're looking for your keys

in a dark room,
and you're feeling, you can't see.

And then a light comes and shows like this
and you take the thing.

It's gone, it's finished.
The searching is finished.

It shows something is always here.

Okay. Thank you guys.
And [indistinct speech].

Okay, we can put the tables back and things.

You didn't eat your sandwich. [laughs]
[indistinct reply]

[laughter]

Speaker 3: Anybody hungry?
[laughter]

Speaker: Thank you, Guruji.
M: Yeah.

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