Gem - Prior to Identity.mp4

Q1: I just feel like, to bring myself forward
into what you're sharing.

Two days ago, maybe we spoke in satsang,
on Friday, I think—three days.

And you were saying that you're pointing
us towards something that is not a duality.

You said that what you—to put the attention
into the Self, which is not a duality.

That's what I heard from—
because I was complaining about something,

about states—
I don't know, that's the only thing that

I really remember from what you shared
to me.

M: I have to treat things,
when you speak like that,

the minute I see something edible in what
you speak, I stop right there and say,

Let's make a meal out of that.
Because there's a tendency,

and we all know it, that we begin to speak,
and you roll on to the next,

and the next thing—and nobody comes away
with any depth.

I would really encourage—and this is why
I said, actually, I'm here just for the

duration of the coffee,
and let's see if we can take the best out

of this moment together.
Yeah. So, already you said something,

that from what you heard,
I was pointing to put your attention on

that which is not dual.
Already it's a strange thing to say,

because 'attention', and 'on that which
is not dual,'

meaning that actually, even the 'putting
attention'

is already an action happening in the thing
which is not dual.

If you don't understand it,
I'll try another way, because I'm not here

to just impart concepts,
and all this kind of stuff,

you know.
I'm just here—tomato sandwich,

everything edible.
It has to be like that.

So if you don't understand,
you say.

Or you let it go, it's okay.

So for you, if you heard that I said to
bring your attention, or put your attention,

or I said, Bring your attention to that
which is non-dual, how you proceed with

such a thing?
What you do?

And anything you say, like with your mind
being—it's not, nothing clever about it,

actually.
Truth is not clever.

Mind is clever.

What does it mean?
Because there's sufficient power,

possibility for something very, very...
I don't know what the word is.

I can't even put 'valuable,'
but maybe for the sense of a person,

it would be the most valuable,
if you understood this.

You will only understand it if you have
the urge to understand it.

So many people, we are content with a kind
of knowledge about something.

Knowledge is always about something.

So what I'm speaking is not 'about'
anything, you know, it's...

What is here, what is here,
that is not 'someone's'

achievement?
It's just, what is here,

you see.
I don't think...

This is not a question that's going to
interest so many people, actually.

You want something new.
You want something to react and to be excited

about, or to feel,
'Ah, I've got that,'

or something.

Q1: Can I say, Babaji?
M: Yes, I was waiting for you.

Q1: It feels like, if I were to take what
you say, then the perceiving happens.

What I perceive is other, like,
for the mind...

Like, if there's...
What I want to say is, like,

the act of recognition is something
perceivable, like the mind recognising

something is a duality.

M: Yeah.
The mind, or you call it,

'yourself', it doesn't matter.
For me it's the same thing.

You perceiving anything is an act of duality.

We have no issue with duality.

All experiences is based mostly on duality.

I'm not here to wipe out experience.

Q1: Yeah, I think this came that I spoke
to you on Friday, because I was really,

I was...
Somebody said to me, Layla said to me,

she said,
'Don't you have a pointer which works for

you when you have these states come?'
And I actually, I was like,

'Actually, no, I struggle.'
When I sit with what you share,

that even the act of perceiving is
perceived...

M: You, who you say 'struggle',
is that not also a kind of construct,

this 'you'
who is struggling?

It's very subtle here, but I'm shooting
right in.

I'm not, I'm not...
Even the sense of struggling,

and the most unquestioned assumption,
this 'I am struggling, I am struggling,'

you know, everybody will take you at your
word, 'I am struggling,

I'm struggling.'
I said, Yes, yes, this is understandable.

But there cannot be any struggling without
the 'I', is there?

So they are connected.
That 'I'

that says,
'I'm struggling,'

and the struggle, they go together,
isn't it?

So before they even come up,
what is here, also?

What even says,
'Oh yes, I struggle,'

is that not somehow that,
this one who is struggling and what it's

struggling about, are just a movement,
and in a little bit we're going to have

another reading.
It's only a play of time and mind.

Now this, you know, this thing, yeah.

Ten minutes ago, you said you were struggling,
'Oh, no.

No, not anymore.'
So everything is time bound.

We give so much time to something which
is passing.

And long after you're finished with it,
somebody's still struggling with it,

trying to, you know, suck your bones,
when you're already gone.

So this is...
I wonder if this is too much?

It's so, so simple.
If you search for something with the mind -

which is a natural thing -
you're going to keep finding things to,

from this thing to that thing,
new links, and so on.

It's natural, a natural thing.
I'm not fighting with the mind.

I'm just trying to show you,
who and what and where you actually

are, and who you actually are.

What, when you say 'I',
what it...

All of this is based upon this simple
thing—this feeling of I,

and what you take this 'I'
to be. And you see yourself,

from your talk as an 'I',
as a person, in a location,

in a certain situation,
trying to get somewhere.

For me, all of that is...
Just like we're sitting here,

they say,
'Where were you?

What did you do, Guruji?'
Oh, we stopped in Bonanza.

We had a coffee, actually,
I had a couple of...

We can talk like that.
What's the value?

Nothing.
Nothing, really.

What is...
I am only pointing you,

what is unchanging?
What is unchanging about you?

No matter what situation.
And it's not a mental answer you can give.

It's a recognition, you see.
Because once you really grasp this,

you will not be talking about this thing
happen, and that thing happen.

And so, it's okay.
From you wake up, happenings are happening,

isn't it?
Nothing wrong.

It's okay, let them happen.
But why you put yourself in the mix?

'Yeah, this thing happened to me.
And I met so and so,'

and da da da.
And you present that as a fact about you.

So, I don't know.
I have to feel, you know,

I'm throwing a hook out,
and a thing, and I feel,

'Who will come?'
I say...

And it's nothing.
So we can leave this.

M: We can talk about something else.
Q1: Can I say...?

M: Yeah, go.
Q1: It feels like the act of perceiving,

the function of perception is what is
constant, at least during the waking state.

M: Yeah, it's kind of going on.
What is aware of this?

What causes awareness of that,
is that going on?

Speaker: Guruji?
M: No, no.

Digest this first.
Same food for everybody.

Don't move on to something else, no.

You see, from your standpoint of asking
a question, is not satisfied with my answers.

So, one is a meat eater,
they're not going to be satisfied with

vegetarian food.
So you see?

If your mind, you come from the mind,
wants an answer that it can go,

'Aha! I got that.'
But guess what?

Tomorrow I'll see you again with your head
in your hands, and...

That will never be for your true Self.

What's the value in your true Self?

What's a true Self?
Is there such a thing?

We're all so unique, so individual.

'Stand up in your uniqueness.
You're an individual.'

That can be there, too.
But it's...

It itself is a river flowing by.

You can't catch that guy.
It's just the mind.

You're calling your mind you.

Which life allows you to do,
you can call your mind you,

until you realise that,
'There's nothing quiet,

or still here.'
It's always river flowing by.

Thank God for sleep.

You're aware, you know,
I have no issue with the mind,

the mind is...
Now, when you're clear about who you are,

mind is beautiful.
It's revealing all this.

Consciousness is revealing through the mind,
all this diversity, which we can enjoy.

You can have the feeling of bitter,
and sweet, and all of that is fine.

It's okay.
Life and death, also, is part of the mix,

of the show of the mind.
Life and death, you and me,

this and that, coming and going—all of
that is in the mind.

It's fine.
I'm not trying to rub out the mind.

When you don't have an issue with the mind,
the mind is beautiful.

How did you come to an issue with the mind?

When you have strong identity,
which is also shaped in the mind—but prior

to identity, before you touch identity,
what were you?

Because since you touch identity,
you have never been still...

'Now, I'm fine.
Fine, fine.'

Next... Once you touch identity,
you're in the flowing river of the mind.

So, you're looking for stillness,
but even if you attain some stillness from

the mind, at a certain point,
you're going to be bored,

'Now I'm bored.
Now I want some action.'

You see?
So that stillness is not true stillness.

It's only a pause in the stream of,
a seeming pause.

You have to be desperate for what I'm
speaking!

You want to be entertained,
and say,

'Oh, yeah.
Okay, yeah, I got that.'

'I' got that, and you'll preserve your
identity, you will preserve your identity

as the one who got something.
Tomorrow, where is it?

'Yeah, well, today I have another thing.'
So it goes on and on.

And it's okay, because thankfully,
along somewhere along all of this,

there's a subtle refining happening.

I have to assume that, because you're still
here. Otherwise, go!

Go back to this place.
Go and follow along with your river.

What keep you here?
There must be something.

There's some vitamin that is feeding
something.

Because actually, if you are genuine,
your mind won't like these conversations,

because it's exposing something,
that the person is not actually reliable

and real.
So the mind aspect of the person is not so...

It wants to enjoy.
It wants to even have knowledge about the

truth, but it doesn't want to be
the truth, you see?

How can it be the truth,
like this?

So this is what I'm finding.

Q1: When I see this, like,
because you expose this play inside of me.

When I see this play, it's like there's
no separation.

But there's always the chance to offer.

And I just offer that, you know?
Because I can see what you say,

the mind doesn't want what you speak.
It really, it doesn't.

M: Why doesn't it want what I speak?

Because we can speak about a lot of things
and the mind is happy.

[Sorry about that.]
We speak about a lot of things mind is

happy about.
Why would it not be happy about this?

Q2: Because it takes its food out,
or away.

M: It takes the food away?

It's not that it takes the food away.
Partly that, but it exposes the fraudulence,

the fraud of it, no?
Which is part of the universal game.

We can say it's God's game.

We can put it like this, also.

It has to be a game to win it,
or to lose.

So that's part of the game.
But the player of the game is included

in the game, for the time being.

But there's something earlier than player
and game.

The one, before you became a player,
you were not player.

So the spectator to the game,
is not suffering the game.

It's not easy to understand with this,

you know?

[Dog barks.]
Dog is barking.

Hearing, action/reaction is happening,
in that which is not happening.

M: Can you relate or not?
Q1: Yes.

M: So that's all you need to know.
But really keep knowing it,

because very easily the mind wants to make
a story of this.

'We were sitting in Bonanza,
we were talking.

And this crazy dog start barking and, whew!

It was just really,'
make this, and boom!

There you go.
Ciao! The life -

mind—dog barking...
Reaction happen.

But still to the being,
nothing happened, to that place.

Not because it's reacting against happenings.

Because it's not involved in happenings.

That is your greatest space!

Because as you begin to realise this,
you can almost go anywhere in the world.

Not to prove this.
Go about your business,

and you'll find that you do very well,
you're not rejecting anyone,

not judging anyone.
It's as though there's a harmony,

an underlying harmony within and underneath
everything.

This is not a teaching,
not a philosophy.

It's natural for everybody!
Even for the barking dog,

it's true.
Something inside that barking dog is not

barking, not disturbed.

Why I say that?
Because he's conscious also.

Consciousness is in that dog, also.

You must understand the game,
understand your play.

It's not a trick.
We are all here in this body,

in this experiential body,
experiencing this amazing -

an amazing dot in the universe called Earth—
and all these things going on.

They all appear in the mind because of
consciousness.

But in every moment, there's a possibility
of slipping behind the scene and just be.

Still, 'Have a coffee?'
Yes. 'What you want, galao?'

No, I want a black coffee.
All these things can be there.

But when you have strong identity,
you take, you become the...

Something change.
You become, something.

Which is okay, we have done it before.

Maybe many lifetimes we've done it.

No big deal.
It can go on for more lifetimes, also.

There's no God waiting,
'Oh, will you hurry up and come home.'

M: No, we can go.
Q3: But it is very painful, Guruji.

M: The pain is a gift.
Q3: Yes.

M: Because pain and difficulty help us
to break habit.

Q3: There is kind of an urge to fast-forward
this refinement that you speak about.

M: Again, sorry?
Q3: There is some urge to fast-forward

this refinement that you speak about.

M: You don't have to fast-forward.
Neither forward nor backward.

In the midst of all this dynamic,
there's a stillness.

The stillness is greater than the dynamic.

The dynamic is time, and all things born
in time are time and change.

But the beingness is not,
you see, it gives rise.

It's the cause of it.
The author writes a book,

very dynamic.
The author is in the book,

and the author is

apart from the book also.

It might sound a little bit too...

Yeah.

M: Yes.
Q3: Because when we sit like this,

your words -
what you're speaking of -

it feels like it's happening inside.

Q3: It's not apart from...
M: What is not happening?

You see, we are all affected by happenings.

What you call a happening,
someone else says was not really a

happening.
What you were excited about,

for someone is—maybe even depressed about.

Another one is not touched by it.
So can anybody here, make an assessment

about anything here, which is true for
everyone?

So, your experience of the world is a very
private and subjective momentary event,

because the next moment somebody wants
to remind you of it, and you're not interested

anymore.
Everything in the life that's appearing

through the mind and the senses is like that.

Everything is flowing.
It's okay.

We're not having issue with the flowing river.

But when you confuse yourself as the flowing
river and,

'Oh, I'm going so fast!
Now, I'm going to crash into that rock,'

and so on.
Then I says, Wow, you're going to be tired

very soon.
You say,

'I'm tired already.'
The true witness of this is not tired,

nor are they against the river.
They let the thing flow.

There's an aspect of ourself which is flowing,
you can say—the dancing consciousness,

and the still consciousness.
It's very, very worth knowing this.

Otherwise you experience chaos all the time.

We can experience moment of chaos.
You're the dynamic body.

You can't just chop it off.
So you can experience pain,

and a bit of loneliness.
But they are...

They don't become a crisis,
because of the deeper awareness underneath

them, is somehow untouched.

Even at the point of death,

it's there, untouched.
If we are conscious of it.

So you need to be conscious of your
consciousness.

You see.

In this life so far, something is,
some pulsation is in you to search for

this thing.
And it's a complexity for the mind because

it's not what we are conditioned to look like,
no? It's almost like

being in the river and then trying to
understand its speed.

I said, No, but something is aware of the
river flowing by.

But your experience is that you're flowing by.

'The river is going too fast,
could you slow it down?'

I said, No, learn to be a witness a bit more,
and you'll find that witnessing is actually

very natural, and pleasant and true.

Say, 'Shall I put my hands in my pocket
and watch life go by?'

No, this body is also the river of life doing.

I'm not speaking like, this is obvious.

One time this was not at all obvious at
all for me.

But with a little bit some guidance,
grace came and somehow something inside

was ready, without knowing it's ready.

Just found yourself in a certain place,
listening and connecting and feeling puzzled

and intrigued and interested and resistant.

And interested and resistant.

But something, you're being,
I was being roped in by something.

M: By who?
Group: [Laughter]

M: You said by one's own beingness is
roping you in, but you don't realise it's

yourself, it's the Self.
But it's not personal.

You can't really explain.

And so therefore, I see everybody in the
same kind of light, we're all being pulled

by some magnet that you don't understand.

But you think you know,
'Yeah, I'm not interested today.

I like and sometimes I'm very interested
but...' It's like, like this.

It's okay.
It's okay.

It's okay.
It's okay.

When it's the time to somehow,
it just...

It stopped making sense and just Is.

You understand?
Yeah, at the moment, you're trying to connect,

'Ah! Yeah, okay.
But what if and...'

We have to do this also for a while.
But as it really begin to,

you know, when you put the,
when you heat the oil and you put the food in,

initially a lot of [makes a sound],
but later on it settles down and becomes

very quiet.
Your mind become like this,

very quiet somehow.

[Mooji is shown a picture and message
on the phone]

Says, 'Mushrooms are ready.'
Because we were on the road and we saw

somebody with some stuff on the road.

And I said, Oh, what's this?
I think I remember these.

I had these before, maybe 30 years ago.

It was like some mushrooms.
Looking and said, Oh.

So the man was there and said,
Can you, selling these things?

[Imitates the old man]
Old man,

'Ohhh.'
I think it's the same one.

They look like, they don't look like mushrooms
for me. So we bought a bag.

I tried to contact the guys to say,
Have you seen this kind,

you know what this is?
We bought a bag and I just took them back.

I asked the guys, Could you clean that
and fry it for me?

Because I had this once before in butter.

They're delicious.
So I said, Okay, can you.

The guys can do that.
And if it's nice, if it's really the one

I think it is, I'll go and get some more
of them.

Group: [Laughter]
M: So I'm just telling you,

if you put something in oil,
at first, the oil is, you put it in [makes

crackling sound], like this.
I'll settle down.

Then she showed me, they say,
'The mushroom ready.'

Group: [Laughter]

M: Thank you.
[Laughs]

Like this.
And you will find, actually,

when you are living by the speed or the
temperature of your mind,

you are not so much in synchronicity.

And actually, as I said,
Personal identity is really the cause of

all suffering in the world,
because the person is not your true,

is not the truth of you,
you know.

It's a form of mind, and nothing of mind
is stable.

And the state of personal identity is a
state largely of some insecurity.

And this insecurity is afraid to be exposed
because it contains a lie.

That's why so much conflict between people.

So we try to find people who are like you
that don't challenge you.

M: You see?
Q4: I feel like there is a prayer for

God to keep making being a person hurt,
like to keep making a person be difficult,

Q4: because that, and so I...
M: Yes.

Q4: There's really that prayer actually.
M: Yes. It's a very rare prayer.

She's asking,
'My prayer is to that the person keep

hurting.'
So you can give it up.

Q4: And even to bring this challenge that
forces me, continues to force in a way

like I do have that...
I do have this prayer,

Q4: you know, like, please keep helping me.
M: We were just talking because,

you know, as we talked about our brother
Michel, he could have been any one of you

sitting here.
We were there, one year ago we were talking

like this.
Yesterday I went to his cremation.

Became sick, with tumour in the brain.

But this tumour helped to set him free.

Because when your life is...
life force is going, you don't have time

for your bullshit.
You don't.

So a lot of things is by grace, somehow.

Acid grace.
Some things you're not like interested

in this,
'All this no not interested.'

They drop away.
They drop away.

They drop away.
In the last few days, we regarded him,

'You are Avadhut.
You're Avadhut.'

You don't have time for all these
philosophical discussions and all these

things, you know.
Why? It hurts.

Leave it.
Leave all this stuff.

Leave all this stuff, you become clean
and bright.

Miracles begin to manifest around you.

He said,
'But why doesn't I just come back my energy?'

No, he wasn't even asking for this.

You see?
You're healthy, fit,

'Oh, go ride a horse.'
Don't have time to look.

It's part of the play of life.

You may think it's unkind.
It's full of kindness.

Full of goodness.
Why? Because God gives us something called

your choice and your urge brings
you your experience.

You may not be sure, clear about it.
But we are living our choice.

You're living your concepts.
What you believe becomes your perfume or

odour, what you want to call,
it brings like this.

And so much of what we are thinking have
to fail a little bit, has to hit the wall,

has to hit the rock to shake off the untruth
of it. Because the mind is not the instrument

for Truth, in the higher sense.

A relative truth, phenomenal things,
'This is good, this is bad.'

That's there.
But all of you came here.

You're not even aware that you came here
because a force brought you here for

Self-discovery.
But the part of us that still wants something

in the world...
Still at each other.

All this thing is still there.

But underneath that, something call you
for the highest thing, you see.

And the part of us still,
aspiring for worldly things and stuff,

you know, it's in us.
I can't blame, say 'Hey you.'

It's just the nature of the game,
it's like that.

And it said that God said,
'You will seek me, you will search for

me when you, and you will find me only
when you search with all your heart and

your mind, soul and strength.'
What it mean?

Because everything else is cheap.
And to find the thing which is most precious,

we have to go through the desert.

You have to go through the storm.
And it's coming to you.

And at first, the mind doesn't want.

It wants just compliments and beautiful
things and...

But sometimes it takes this roughness to
refine. Like you say, they get some stones,

you go to some beach, you see all this
beautiful round pebbles, beautiful.

A lot of refining, washing.

Sometimes it takes, not for everyone.

Some, in amazing, we're not on the same
layer of our potential,

our capacity different, no?

So this is beyond your family reach.

You may be one in your family that go beyond
in terms of your capacity.

You may be the one who wake up.

And maybe your family don't have any value
for that also.

Or they may.
Or they may come to.

Doesn't matter.
You know, it's not worked out like that.

Somehow something is going like that,
you see.

So, it is a little bit tug of war,
a little bit struggle and 'Yeah,

but and but, and da da da.'
But gradually, gradually something come.

You know in my own case it was not like
that to start.

It was doing me a life,
moving about, having your adventures and

whatever.
And I met somebody seemingly by chance,

I met somebody, you know,
a young man, Christian man,

who's come, just come in a sort of funny way,
like I was making stained glasses,

so and so...
Anyway, we met, and then I quickly liked him.

I thought, wow, he's not pushy.
He would talk, and he seems very reasonable

and very open interesting.

I never spoke to anybody,
usually religious people are pushy.

But he was just very much like this.

And quickly I came to a place that one
day I asked him, When you pray again,

will you pray for me?
And he said, Yeah, but we can do that right

now.' So he prayed for me and then I...
when he did, myself also asked,

God please help me.
I want to grasp what he's sharing with

me in my heart.
That same evening, that same evening,

I'm delivered from all this stuff.

You understand?
And still after that, I spent six years

in London moving about.

I gave up my job, stuff something,
being carried by this force.

But when it was time for another step up,
this force took me to India.

Because I had to find out something more.

I didn't know what it was.
It can pretend to be like this and that,

but it come.
And it was to come to this part of this

Advaita

path, of the ultimate.

It's like the walk with God,
and like this, it's a path of

evolving.
The path of non-duality is dissolving.

But both leads same thing,
same place.

But it happened.
I don't know, you may not know where you're

going. You just feel,
'Yes' in your heart.

'Take me this way.'
And the wise power, which is in you also,

beyond your regulated mind,
they take you there, more and more.

And it's behind coming here also talking
with you, the same thing.

Q2: Guruji, I take your path.

M: My path is very simple,
very direct.

Other paths they are more slow and winding,
maybe, I don't know.

Each one must go their path.
But when I have the chance to point directly

to something.
But it's not a something that comes from

your mind, before the mind when you come
to this, then some, some—the force of habit

wants to go a certain route where something
confronts you, says, No,

leave that, leave that,
come here, this.

When you're able to listen and [exhales]
you can be relieved.

For all paths they take time to go somewhere.

But direct path;
it reflects that which is already here.

But you have to be ready for that.

And nobody knows if you're ready.
Even you don't know.

Q2: Listening is here, not here.

M: What?
Q2: The listening you just mentioned is

more in here.
And when I meet you, something here just

Q2: expands.
M: The kind of listening I'm talking about,

is like leads to a revelation.

Not, 'Listening and then I think, okay,
now I'm going to.'

It's as though, it's like you're looking
for your keys in a dark room and you're

feeling you can't see.
You see?

And then a light comes and show like
this and you take the thing.

It's gone, it's finished.
The searching is finished.

It shows something is always here.

Okay. Thank you guys, and wow.

Okay, we can put the tables back and thing.

M: You didn't eat your sandwich.
Group: [Laughter]

Anybody hungry?