J. Krishnamurti - Brockwood Park 1981 - Public Talk 1 - Thought and the problems of our world

K: I hope that you will not
treat this as a weekend affair.

The politicians are thinking
in terms of tribalism,

they haven’t
the global outlook,

or the concern
for the whole of humanity.

They are concerned
about their own insular party,

their own ideologies
and theories.

They’re not concerned
with humanity.

Nor are the scientists.

They are helping to create the bomb,

or have helped to create it,

and it appears,

they’re not deeply concerned
with the future of man.

Nor, obviously,
are religious people

– the established, orthodox,
traditional religion.

They are not thinking

in terms of the whole
religious mind of all humanity.

Nor are the gurus –

you have seen
the latest television

and all that nonsense
that goes on in the world.

And they have their own
particular form of discipline,

ashrams which are really
concentration camps and so on.

So, when you look around
all over the world,

there is no one concerned, deeply,

sincerely,

with the future of man.

So, it behoves us
not to depend on anybody,

including the speaker.

It behoves us to be utterly
responsible for our own conduct,

our own attitudes,
prejudices and so on.

If one is concerned at all
about mankind, about man,

about the human being
caught in this modern society,

which is already disintegrating,
where there is so much violence,

despair, anxiety,
uncertainty,

it seems that we have to be
responsible for all our actions.

We are humanity.

What we suffer,
what we go through in daily life,

our quarrels,
our disenchantment,

all our troubles, religious,
psychological, political,

is the concern of all human beings.

Wherever you go,
all over the world

every human being
faces this problem,

not only us here
in this tent, on this island

but all over Europe,
America, India and Asia,

they are all uncertain.

There is no security.

There is terrorism.

To escape from all this

they are trying to form
some kind of community,

a commune where they can be safe.

But one cannot be safe
in this world, as it is.

So, what we are, our consciousness,

our attitudes,
our miseries,

are like the rest of the world.

This is a fact.

Our consciousness is
the rest of mankind.

Please, as we have said,
during all these talks,

during past and present talks,

please, let us think together,

not you think one way,
I think another way,

but let us think together

and observe
what is happening round us.

Not as British, as French, as Irish,
or American, or Hindus,

but as human beings

living on this earth,
which is our earth,

not British, not French,
not American, nor Russian.

It’s our earth, on which we are
supposed to live happily, securely,

which is being
utterly denied to all of us.

After 20, 30 centuries,

we are what we were
at the very beginning of time,

slightly modified,

perhaps we’ve better bathrooms,

better communication,
better hygiene,

but there are wars
threatening,

not only far away but this may
happen any time very close to us,

because it is in the hands
of these extraordinary politicians

and we have trusted
our lives to them

and they are not giving us security.

Seeing all that,

what is one to do?

As a human being,
living in this dreadful world,

which is becoming more
and more dangerous,

more and more insecure,

both theologically,
as well as physically,

what is one to do?

What action,
what kind of attitudes,

what kind of beliefs and so on,
is one to have?

Or, we have tried all those.

We have had ideals,

various forms of faiths
and dogmas,

political theories,
dialecticism,

opinion against opinion,

trying to find out truth
through opinion

We’ve had all these

and many more varieties
of political, religious thinking.

Apparently, those activities haven’t
deeply, profoundly affected man.

Observing what is taking place
in the world objectively,

we have not progressed very much
psychologically, inwardly.

We are still burdened
with sorrow,

with fear,

with the urge to find something
that is beyond all time,

beyond all belief.

After all these millions of years,
we are still where we were,

fighting each other,
killing each other,

more efficiently

and on a vast, wide scale.

Seeing all that,

one asks oneself,
if one is at all serious,

what is our action as a human being,
living in this world,

what is it to be?

Or is the question limited?

Not what I should do
or you should do,

which becomes rather limited,

but rather, as a human being
representing the rest of mankind,

because we are
the rest of mankind,

because all men wherever they live
go through all kinds of disasters,

despairs, anxieties, fears,

we are like the rest of mankind.

I think the right question would be,

what, as a human being
who is the whole of mankind,

if you realise that,

that you are not
a separate individual

fighting your own little battle

in your own backyard,
as it were,

between two human beings,

but rather that each one of us
is the rest of mankind.

One may intellectually observe it,

logically see

that wherever one lives
under whatever form of government,

tyrannical or so-called democratic,
Left or Right,

and whatever one’s
religious beliefs may be,

man, throughout the world,
is in a state of confusion,

a state of despair,

there is very little future for him.

If one realises
that we are the rest of mankind,

then as a human being
who is the whole of mankind,

what is one to do?

Then the question becomes
extraordinarily wide and important.

I don’t know if we agree to this,
if we see this thing together.

That is, if we both of us
observe the same thing

– not according to one’s own
particular conditioning,

as a Christian, Hindu
or whatever it is,

but seeing the actual,

that we are not separate individuals
living on this planet,

struggling, struggling,
struggling

but we are the rest of mankind,
actually, psychologically.

Physically, you may be different,
you may be tall,

brown, white, pink, black,
or whatever colour,

but inwardly,
psychologically, deeply

there is a great similarity,

a common ground
upon which we all stand.

This is logical, this is real,

not a theory invented
by the speaker,

an ideal to be pursued,

some Utopia to be worked for,
but it’s an actuality,

that each one of us is not
a separate individual on this earth

but we are
the rest of mankind.

One may intellectually,
that is, verbally,

theoretically accept
such a proposition,

but the intellectual comprehension
is rather superficial.

If one actually felt this
in one’s heart,

in the very depth
of one’s being,

that we are not individuals
as we have been educated,

and conditioned.

All religions have maintained
that we are separate individuals,

our separate souls

– to use certain Indian
Sanskrit words, which we won’t –

that we are all
separate individuals,

each one seeking his own salvation,

each one seeking
his own fulfilment,

fulfilling his own
particular demands,

which is what every human being
in the world is doing.

This is the common ground
on which we stand.

If one –
or when one actually realises this,

that our consciousness

is the consciousness
of the rest of mankind,

it is a tremendous revolution.

Not only the verbal,
logical understanding of it

but the feeling, the beauty,
the passion behind it,

the vitality behind such
comprehension of truth.

One then has a great deal of energy.

The battle then is with the world
not with your little self.

Our consciousness
is made up of all our thoughts,

is made up of all the contents
of our civilisation,

traditional religions with their
dogmas, beliefs, all that,

and also, specialisation,

being educated
in a certain direction

is part of our consciousness.

Part of our consciousness
is our belief,

our experience,

our grief, sorrows, pains,
accidents, experiences,

all that and more
is our consciousness.

Right? Can we go on?
Are we thinking together?

I’m not telling you
for you to accept or to reject

but we are thinking together

by observing
what’s going on in the world

and what is going on
inwardly, in ourselves.

Seeing what other human beings
are going through,

you must invariably
come to this reality,

to this truth that we are all whole,
not separate.

Our consciousness
is put together by thought.

Right?

Are we together in all this?

Thought predominates
all our activities.

Thought has constructed
the atom bomb,

the marvellous cathedrals
and the things in the cathedrals.

Thought has created all the travail,

all the problems that we have.

If we did not think at all,

if there was not a single
movement of thought,

there would be no problem.

Probably, we’d be like vegetables
but we would have no problems.

So, thought is responsible for fear,
for anxiety, for sorrow,

for the pursuit of happiness and
the pursuit of what is called God,

enlightenment,

it is all the movement of thought.

Again, it is not a particular
theory of the speaker,

it is an actuality.

Thought has invented
all the religions,

all the content of the religions,

the rituals, the dogmas,
the beliefs,

the hierarchical outlook
of a religious mind

– these are all
the product of thought.

There is no denying that.

Thought may say

what is being said in all
the scriptures is above thought,

but it represents
and is put down by thought.

Obviously.

All the literature,
religious and otherwise,

is the result of thought.

Right?

Our brains are trained to solve the
problems which thought has created.

Again, that is fairly clear.

I hope you’re all
following all this.

Are we following each other?
Right?

Our brains are trained
to solve problems.

Whether the problems
are scientific,

engineering,

social or religious and so on,

through all these centuries

the brain has been trained
to solve those problems.

The brain is the movement
of thought.

We are only using
a small part of the brain.

The specialist
will tell you this, too.

We are not employing
the whole of the brain,

only a very small part.

That part is conditioned by time,
which is evolution,

by experience, by knowledge,

that part has been trained
to solve problems

which thought has created.

See what the brain is doing.

First it has been educated
to act partially,

and that partiality is
the result of partial thinking.

Thinking is limited
because it’s based on knowledge,

on experience
and so on memory,

so knowledge can never
be complete about anything.

Right?
Our thinking is limited.

That thinking
creates the problems

and our brains are trained
to solve the problems

which thought has created

and so it’s caught in this cycle.

I wonder if we see this together.
Right?

Please, let’s think together.
Don’t make an effort to think.

Probably, you’re not used to this
kind of thinking, but just observe.

Let’s observe together
what thought is,

how thought has created
this tent, the electric light,

the roads and motor cars,
the gods,

all the things that thought
has done is incredible.

Not only has it created wars
but also all the instruments of war.

It has created
nationalities, divisions,

the separate religious divisions,
like the Hindus and Buddhists.

Thought has been
responsible for this,

because thought says,
‘I must be secure’.

To be secure I must have
a relationship with others,

with those others
who live in a community,

the community being isolated,
separate nationalities

in which there is security,

then, partly, that seeking security

through nationalism
is creating wars.

So, the problem is there again.
You follow all this?

Thought creates the problem
and then tries to solve the problem.

In trying to solve the problem,

it becomes more
and more complicated,

which is happening
in the world.

The politicians are trying to solve
problems, but they are not,

they’re increasing them.

Like the gurus,
they want to solve problems,

but they are multiplying them.
This is happening.

If we begin to understand
the nature of thought,

that thought is limited and
knowledge is also always limited,

one must find a different action,

not an action of thought

but there must be
a different avenue,

a different approach
to the whole problem of existence.

Is this somewhat...?
Are we meeting together?

We have approached the problem
of existence with all the travail,

with all the complexities of it

by the employment of thought,
by the intellect, or romantically,

emotionally, sentimentally.

Neither of these two have worked.

This is obvious.

So, there must be a different
approach to the whole problem

of existence.

The existence which is common
to all mankind,

not my existence
or your existence,

but the existence of mankind,
living on this earth.

Mankind that has suffered
so enormously,

through innumerable wars

and we’re still perpetuating
the same thing.

I wonder if you have noticed that
no-one talks about peace anymore.

Even the priests
have given that up,

except the gurus
who talk about peace somewhere else.

There are no pacifists anymore,

there are no really deep
conscientious objectors,

nobody says, ‘Let’s all be
against war, the whole world’.

Nobody talks about it.

They demonstrate
against this or that,

or have peculiar isolated demands

but nobody, as far as one has
observed and one may be mistaken,

there is not a group of people,
as there was in the ancient days,

who says,
‘We are against war.

We will not kill
under any circumstances’.

The usual question is, ‘What would
you do if your sister was attacked?’

That’s just an evasion
of the real issue.

I wonder if you have noticed this.

It is an obvious
deterioration of the world.

Nobody says,
‘I am entirely against war’.

Which means against nationalism,

against separate gods, religion
– everything that is divisive –

only then can you have peace.

But if each one of us
is trying to find peace

through our own little meditation,
this or that,

it is utterly meaningless.

So, we have come back
to the question,

if thought is not capable
of solving all these problems,

human problems, problems
of relationship with each other,

the problem of thought
creating images,

problems of fear, sorrow,
meditation, all that,

if thought cannot resolve
all these problems,

which apparently it cannot,

after all these millennia,

we must look in other directions
– right?

Not pursue the same old
traditional path.

Are we prepared for that?

Are we prepared, or do we see

that there must be a totally
different approach

to the whole problem of existence?

Whether it is sexual, religious,
sensory, political, all the rest.

How will you find out
a totally different approach,

which is not contaminated
by thought?

Because one realises
thought is utterly limited.

The problems which thought
has created are much too great

and thought cannot
solve them anymore.

If one actually,
not intellectually or emotionally

but actually realises it,

as you realise pain,

if one is passionately aware of it,

then what is
the other direction?

Right?

How does one respond
to a challenge of that kind?

How do you respond
to that question?

Seeing that thought
cannot solve these problems,

technologically it can,

a better means of killing,
laser ray – you know all that.

What is your answer?

We are supposed to be
educated people.

Some of us have been
to college or universities,

highly sophisticated.

As one cannot escape
from all this,

even if you went off
to some isolated monastery,

or became a hermit,

you would still have
these problems.

You may not want
to look at them,

you may turn your back on them,
but there they are.

So, what is your response?

Another question arises
from this,

which is computers are
taking over all our thinking.

They are going to outstrip man,
or already have done.

They think much faster,

they can learn and unlearn,

and so keep on learning

and discover that their learning
is not complete and learn further.

Which means

they are being programmed
by experts,

and the machines, these computers,

can learn not only from professors,
from the programmers,

but from themselves.

Probably, some of you know
about this, you have read about it.

We have talked
to some computer experts,

who say that within ten years,
they will completely outstrip man.

They’ll think faster,
learn faster,

correct themselves,
perhaps invent something new,

new theories,
which man has not thought of.

So, this is a very important
problem for man.

Of course, computers cannot look
at the stars and enjoy the stars.

They can compose,
but perhaps not like Beethoven.

Perhaps, they do not know
what love is.

But neither do we.

So, there is this machine

which is
an ultra-intellectual machine

– ultra-intellectual machine,
it’s called.

They are inventing this.
It’s so rapid.

So, what becomes of man?

Do you understand?

Look at the problem,
please face the problem!

What happens to us who have
lived by exercising our brain,

whatever little part
of that brain is,

and that little part is being
taken over by a machine

which is super-brain

then what happens
to each one of us?

What happens to our brain
which is no longer being employed

as a thinking machine?

I wonder if you follow all this!
I’m afraid you don’t.

They are very concerned.

Some of us, who have gone
into this a little bit,

are very concerned about what is
going to be the future of man.

When the machine can take over
all the activities of the brain,

then what happens
to the brain?

There are only
two possibilities –

either the brain
pursues entertainment

– you understand? – football,
which is already happening,

sports,

religious entertainments.

That’s one direction,
to be amused, entertained.

Or a totally different thing,

which is to pursue
the inward process of man

– the inward, psychological
discovery, deeper and deeper.

Those are the only two possibilities
left to man.

But the entertainment industry
is already gaining.

Televisions – you know all this,
I don’t have to tell you.

There are very few

who are concerned

with the psychological
understanding of man,

completely, not the psychologists,
not the professionals,

not the psychiatrists,
but you and I,

who are the rest of mankind,

we have to discover
whether our brains are being trained

by the entertainment industry
to pursue that line

– please, this is awfully serious.
Do please pay attention to all this.

Either we pursue that,
or turn inward,

not selfishly,

not an egocentric movement,
or ego trip,

but to understand
the whole psychological movement,

the self, the me, the ego,

and see if it is possible
to go beyond all that.

Those are the only
two paths left for us,

when the computer
takes over completely.

The computer with the robot
is already building cars.

When the robot
doesn’t do it properly,

the computer tells it
and it acts properly – you follow?

All that is being taken over,
gradually.

So, what is a man to do?
You understand my question?

Do we think or observe
individually, personally,

from a particular condition,

from a particular form of belief,
prejudice?

Or do we free ourselves
from all that

and turn inwardly,

not selfishly, please bear in mind,
not selfishly,

not saying, ‘I must save my soul’.
That’s all too silly.

But to enter into a world

which will eventually
dominate the outer,

which it is doing now

– the ambitious politician
may use party politics

but the personal ambition
overrides everything else.

This is all so obvious.

Psychologically
one has to understand

the whole structure
of a human being.

Is that possible?

Have we time?

Have we enough energy?

Or is it all too vague?

You follow my question?

It’s like looking at a map.

If you have a particular direction
from here to there,

then you only observe the road,
how many miles,

what towns you pass through
and so on,

so as long as you have a direction,
you never look at the whole map.

So to understand
the psychological structure of man,

there needs be no direction.

I wonder if you see this.

Direction is a motive.

As long as I have a motive

to understand the psychological
depth of humanity,

which is as long as I want
to be free from something or other,

then I have a direction,
I have a motive,

therefore I do not comprehend

the whole psychological
structure of man.

You understand this?

Are we thinking together?
Or am I just talking to myself?

So, is that possible, first?

Mankind has developed a machine

that is going to take over
our thinking,

it will learn faster,
it will correct itself,

build new machines
from the old,

constantly improving,
much more rapidly than man can,

till it reaches
the ultra-intelligent machine.

And realising all that,
what is a human being to do?

Please put that question
to yourself and answer it,

not turn to a guru,

to another priest, psychologist
and all the rest of it.

Let’s find out together
what we can do,

because they have all failed us.

Right?

Do we want to solve
our problems

– the problems of relationship,

problems of society,
problems of war,

the problem of whether
there is God or not,

whether there is something
beyond all time

– are all these problems?

You understand my question?
Do we make of them problems?

Or they exist,

we have to find
the truth of them.

Either they are false or true.

Right?

To find out
the truth of relationship,

not the solution,

or the issue which arises in
relationship which must be solved.

You understand the difference?
I wonder if you do.

That is,

to find what is the truth
of relationship.

Not how to solve my problem
with my wife,

but to discover for oneself
the truth of relationship.

Right?
You understand?

What is the truth relationship?
Not what I would like it to be.

What is the truth of it?

Whether that relationship
is intimate or not,

what is the actual fact of it?

Because if I know the actuality,
the truth of it,

then I can work at it,
it can be dissolved.

But if I am merely concerned
with solving problems,

which my brain is trained to solve,

then I’m back in the old rut.

I wonder if you understand this.
Are we together in this?

So I have to find out
the truth of relationship.

Or what is false
in relationship.

Both the positive
and the negative,

not in-between.

The fact in relationship
is division

– me and you.

That is a fact.

Why does this division exist?

What is the truth
or the falseness of this division

between man and woman
and so on?

Why is there
this division between people?

Not the problems it creates

and the pursuit
of solving those problems,

but rather
why the division exists at all.

I wonder if you follow this.

Is this getting too much?

What time is it?

Questioner: Twenty five past twelve.

K: Goodness, how time flies!

Why is there division between me

and another who happens to be
my wife, or my husband – why?

What creates this division?

This is a problem
for all of us.

You follow? – not only
the division between nations,

the division between religions,
the divisions between various gurus.

You follow,
the absurdity of it all?

All of them saying,
‘We are seeking truth’.

Why is there this division?

What has created this division?

Is it one’s particular demands

– sexual, ambition, desire,

each one of us seeking fulfilment
in his own way,

each one of us pursuing
a different path from another?

I am married – I’m not
but suppose I’m married.

I’m ambitious
to climb the ladder,

the ladder
of a certain career,

my wife is also concerned
to succeed in some other direction.

So, is ambition the factor
of this division?

Please, go into all this.

I believe in God
and she doesn’t.

I never enquire why I believe,
I just believe.

She doesn’t, and she hasn’t enquired
why she doesn’t, either.

We are both prejudiced
and we hold on to our prejudices.

Is that the cause of division?

Or is the cause of division
much deeper than that?

These are all superficial reasons.

Is there a deeper cause

which brings about this terrible
division between human beings?

Who are willing, because of that
division, to kill each other.

Is there a deeper cause?

Think it out, sir.
Go into it.

Is it our training,
our education,

religious and otherwise,

that we are separate individuals?

Only sexually we meet,

otherwise, we are totally separate.

I pursue my path,

worldly or otherwise,
and she does the same.

Is the division caused by this idea
– idea, that we are separate?

Psychologically, inwardly,
she suffers, I suffer.

She’s unhappy,
depressed, moody

and I’m also on my own,
occasionally, and so on.

So, is the root of all this division
the concept of an individual?

I know it goes against all tradition
– you follow? –

against all social, moral,
religious structure.

We have to tear down all that

because we have to understand

that as we are living now,
we’re going to destroy ourselves.

It’s happening.
It is happening in Beirut.

It may not be happening in England
but it is happening, in Far Asia.

So, we have to understand
very deeply

and so eradicate
that which is false,

not the problems
the falseness creates.

Right?

So, is this the root of it, that
each one of us has been brought up

to be a separate individual
with his own soul – the whole of it.

Is that a fact?

Or merely a concept?

What is the difference
between a fact and a concept?

You understand?

Concept being that
which has been put together

by thought, by experience,
by knowledge.

That is a concept,
something conceived,

something that we have accepted

through a million
years of tradition.

That tradition may be
utterly false.

The fact is something,
and the concept is another.

Right?

The fact is I am separate
from my wife. That’s a fact.

And my concept says,
‘We are separate’.

You understand?

Is my concept stronger

than the realisation
that I’m separate from her

– the realisation? You understand
what I’m talking about?

The fact and idea are
two different things. Right?

The idea is that I’m separate,

that’s the idea.

I want to find out if the idea
is different from actuality.

Am I actually an individual?

Right?
Am I?

I suffer like you suffer,
I’m anxious like you,

I am frightened, as you are.

I am lost, I am confused,
as you are.

So, psychologically, inwardly,
we are the same,

with variations
but we stand on the same ground.

The ground may be unequal

but it’s the ground
on which we all stand.

So, the concept must be wrong.

Can I be free from the concept,
not from the problems,

and face the actuality
of what is?

The actually of ‘what is’
is that I am like you,

that I go through hell
as you do,

tortured, disturbed.

So, the realisation

that I am like you

altogether removes the image of you
– you understand?

No.

Are you following?

I have created
an image of you,

as I have created
an image of the kings,

and ministers and all that business,

I have created an image about you,

about my wife,
or husband, you.

That image has been put together
through many years, or many days.

Creating the image
is to be secure.

Right?
I have an image of my guru

– thank God I haven’t got any,
but suppose I have –

I have an image of my guru,

which I have built up
through reputation,

not knowing what all
the implications are of it,

because I’m too gullible,

I’ll accept anything
anybody says about that,

which I want to achieve also,

so I accept, I build an image.

The image is not the actual.

I have an image about my wife.

My wife is not the image.

I wonder if you…?

And that is one of the factors
that divides.

Right?

The image-making ends
when I realise

we two are standing
on the same ground.

I stop building images because
we’re all… You understand all this?

Neither of us is concerned
with the resolution of problems.

If I am merely concerned
with the resolution of problems

then I’m operating with a brain
that is trained to solve problems.

I wonder if you see this.

Therefore, I’m beginning,
caught in it

and solving problems can never end

because in solving one
I create another,

which is happening politically.

We are a crazy crowd, all right.

So, one has realised

that it is not important
to solve problems

but to face actually
what is going on.

What is happening is
I have separated myself from you.

That separation is
the creation of image about you,

and that separation is the education
in which I have been brought up,

the culture, the tradition
that I am totally separate from you,

which is so idiotic
– you follow?

It has no basis,
and yet I accept such a concept.

Now I have moved altogether into
a different dimension – you follow?

Which is we are all standing
on the same ground,

man, woman, whether he’s black,
white, purple,

whatever colour he is.

Inwardly, we are tortured,
all that.

That is important to understand,
not the problems that it creates.

Right?
That’s enough for this morning.