Delivering World Class Customer Success at Scale

>> So this is

my fourth year
attending Pulse,

and it's absolutely

incredible what this
has turned into.

We have grown,
I don't know,

5x, 6x since
the first year.

And so just the momentum
and the growth of

this customer
success movement

has been absolutely
astounding.

And so I applaud all of

you guys for being
part of that movement,

for bringing life to

this incredible transition

that's taking place,

and participating in the

event that's going
on this week.

It's really
great. So today

we are going to talk
about a topic called,

I want to make sure I
get the name right,

Delivering World Class

Customer Success at Scale.

This is a very
timely topic,

and it's one that
a lot of companies

that work with are
are wrestling with.

And so as these guys
are transitioning

from relatively

small customer
success operations,

managing dozens or
hundreds of customers,

where you're doing
everything and

anything you can to
support their needs,

to businesses that
have thousands

or tens of thousands
of customers,

and how do you manage

those customers at scale?

How do you segment
the customers?

How do you figure
out what types

of services make
sense for each one?

And there's a lot
of different ways

to navigate these
challenges.

The question is, how
do you do it well?

How do you avoid
the pitfalls?

How do you ultimately

scale these customer
success organizations to

handle the thousands or
tens of thousands of

customers that all of

us ultimately
aspire to have?

We have an awesome panel

today to discuss
the topic.

I'm going to ask

the panelist to
come out right now.

We've got Scott
Romoser from Citrix,

Jon Herstein from Box,

and Brett Jarvis
from LinkedIn.

So guys, come
sit down here.

And just a note on timing
and logistics here,

we'll be chatting up here

for 25-30 minutes or so,

and then we're going
to open it up to

the audience for some Q&A.

So please keep some
questions in mind,

and there'll be runners

around the floor
that will be able to

bring you microphone
so you can ask

our esteemed guests up

here any questions
that you have.

So to get things

kicked off on a
lighter note,

I'd like to ask each
of the panelists,

what is one fact

that would surprise
the audience,

one fact about each of

you that we wouldn't
naturally know

or would surprise folks?

Who wants to take it?

>> I'll take it first.
The Panther yesterday.

That was me dancing.
Not really.

>> We can lie in this?

>> Absolutely. [LAUGHTER]

>> [OVERLAPPING]
One surprising lie.

>> Lying is better.

>> [OVERLAPPING]
So I'm from Box.

My team's here.

So this may surprise
all of you.

Thank you.

I manage a team of
about 200 people

at Box. I talk to
customers all the time.

I probably spend 90%

of my day just
talking to people,

and I'm a massive
introvert.

So that's probably

the most surprising
thing about me.

Introvert.

>> Excellent.

>> Don't look
me in the eye.

>> I'll try it out too.

My surprising fact is that

for the last four years,

I have danced in

the Nutcracker ballet

during Christmas season.

>> That's great.

>> There you go.

>> We go every year.

>> I should say performed

more than dance.
[LAUGHTER]

>> Dancing is over.

>> It's very
minimal dancing.

>> Hey, guys, I actually
did this backwards.

I should have asked, spend

30 seconds just

talking about
your background,

your role at your
various companies.

And what does customer
success mean?

And I think that'll give
the audience context

for some of the
questions we're

going to go into
in a minute.

>> I'll go ahead and
start. I work at

Citrix in

the Mobility Apps
Business Unit division.

So it's about $750
million division.

Right now, about
1,700 employees in

our group will be spun off

later this year as

a standalone publicly
traded company.

But I run the customer
success team there,

which is about 270-280
people globally,

and we're responsible
for customer care,

so all of

our technical support
and customer success.

And I started
off at Citrix

about 13 years ago in

a sales and care
operations role,

really focusing on
the back office

and the systems and

just about two
years ago took

over the customer care

, customer success role.

Largely, we focus on

helping our customers get

value from our services by

helping them drive

the outcomes for
their business.

It's really simple.

That's an
overarching premises

that everything we do,

we try to align

around that and
deliver on that.

>> So Jon Herstein
from Box,

I've been with Box

almost five
years, actually,

five years this
month, and I

first learned about
customer success

at the same time
I joined Box.

So my whole career
prior to that,

about 20 years was in
professional services,

primarily for
software companies.

And at Box,

I've got
responsibility for

consulting team, our CSMs,

our customer
advisory team,

and support team,
which we call

user services.
So that's me.

>> I'm Brett Jarvis
at LinkedIn.

Well, at LinkedIn,

I lead customer
success for

small business
globally and

leading a team of

customer success
managers and

also working
within the company

around the strategy of how

to work with our
smaller customers.

And for the last
14 years or so,

I've had a variety of
different positions in

the post sales world

at Oracle and Salesforce,

including things
like strategy and

ops and product
management for

services and leading
support teams,

organizations, et cetera.

And I'm delighted
to be here.

>> Awesome. Thanks, guys.

So, you guys are

leading customer
success operations

at businesses that
have achieved scale.

And so you are

confronting and
managing a lot of

the problems that
a lot of people in

the audience are aspiring

to get to over time.

So walk us through.

How do you guys segment
your customers today?

How do you think about

the different
service offerings

you can make available
to those segments?

People use
different language.

There's pool CSMs,
there's dedicated CSMs.

And so walk us through

the segmentation you
guys have done and

then how you manage

the services to those
different segments.

>> I think before

I talk about the
segments a little,

I think what's
really important is

that you look to scale,

and I want to
make sure that

this gets out there early.

As you look to scale

your organization and how

you're working
with customers,

make sure that you're
scaling intelligently.

There are a lot
of things that

you can do to scale.

But when you

can provide knowledge
management,

you can provide training
online, et cetera.

But you got to make
sure that you know

what it is that
you're doing that

actually has an impact
on the customer.

And when you do that,

when you know
that, then you can

know how to scale and

make sure you
never lose that.

And so when we have
different segments,

we do have an online
automated segment

where we have looked at

the customers that from

historical experience,

we know that they're
not necessarily

going to renew
any differently,

no matter what we

do as human
beings with them.

And they're also
smaller customers

that are paying us less,

but are smaller, as
well as companies.

And so we know we'll
never grow too much.

And so then we

have different levels
of engagement based on

whether it's a
small customer

that is paying us a

little more than the
others and can grow.

We have high
growth segments.

We have enterprise
segments, et cetera,

all based on their
spend with us and

how much we think

that they can grow
moving forward.

>> Do you take a leap

of faith with some
where it's obviously

a Fortune 1,000 company

that has the capability
of spending a lot,

but they may not be
spending much today?

How do you thread
that needle?

>> So we have a

segment that we
call high growth

that those types of

companies would fall
into that category.

>> Jon, how does Box
or Scott either way?

>> So I think Box

is a little bit
unique in that we

started as a premium
business that

is now very much focused
on the enterprise.

So what's
interesting, cool,

and a little bit
difficult about

Box is we have customers

everywhere from
the personal user

who pays us nothing
all the way up

to pretty large seven
figure customers

like GE and
Schneider Electric,

that we talk about
pretty publicly.

And I think the
trick for us from

a customer success
perspective is

figuring out how do you
serve GE really well,

but then also
provide really

great support for
the personal user

who one day
could become as

paying business user.

And what we've
tried to do is

figure out how to
take the best of

a highly managed account
and what you learn

from CSM is managing a
small set of accounts.

Take the best
practices from that

and push it down.

But at the same time,
what do you learn from

the small customers
and how to serve

them at scale and
efficiently and actually

bring that up and
meet in the middle.

And so what we do today

is we segment primarily

based on the size of

the customer to align
with our sales team.

So we field customers

and commercial customers.

But then we also
assign CSMs based

on the number of

seats that they've
purchased from us.

So it has more to do
with the complexity of

the deployment than it

has to do with the
size of the customer.

So we could
have a customer

that's too small
to get a CSM,

that's a really big
company and vice versa.

And we just make

those assignments
based on that.

>> The question I asked,

Brett, I'll ask
you the same one.

How do you navigate
this situation

where it's a very
large company,

but is a very small
customer today because

their experience with
Box during the process

may dictate how big

they can
ultimately become.

So how do you navigate
that situation?

>> So we do it on an
exception basis now.

Today, our threshold
is 100 seats.

You purchased 100 seats.
You have a name CSM.

I hate the term
dedicated CSM because

I think it gives

the wrong impression
of the customer.

We don't literally have
dedicated CSMs today.

But for customers who are

below 100 seats but
very high potential,

the sales team will

often just ask for
an exception and

say we'd like to assign
a CSM. Here's why.

And then we go from there.

But I think what's
really important to

understand in our
world and yours, too,

if you have CSMs and non
CSM managed accounts

is you don't want to

give people the
impression,

well, if you don't
have a CSM, you're

just getting nothing.

And I think that's the
important part of what

happens below there

is it's very programmatic,

it's very scaled. It's
very high quality.

The customer has a
great experience.

So it's not you either get

a CSM or you get nothing.

You get a CSM managed
account or what

we call customer advisor
managed account.

>> I just want to pick
up on a couple of

points that Jon
said. Sorry, Scott.

One is the bringing
stuff down from

the high level
across the segments,

and the other is from
the lower level,

lower segments,

scaling that that's
very important.

But two is the point
that you just made,

which is that you
make sure you talk

about the benefits
with customers and not

that you're going to get

a person because
over time,

your segments will shift,

and what you can apply
the CSM resources

to the different
segments will change.

And so you want to
make sure that you're

communicating the
benefits you're getting

through scaled
things rather

than just talking about,

we're going to throw
a person at you.

>> The other thing I
would just want to pile

on is what Jon said,

as you think
about what you do

at the low end and if
you do it really well,

that should apply
to every customer

of every size
all the way up.

And I would argue
in some cases,

that that's a better
customer experience.

Take the person out of

it. They are
always available.

They don't need to

wait for you to
call them back,

or they don't need to hope

that you're not
on another call.

So whatever you do
on the low end,

it's a highly
personalized,

customized and a great

experience that
actually should

address all levels.

The only other lens
that I'll throw in

that we're looking
at a Citrix a

little bit is we're taking

two lenses in how we

structure our team
and how do we

segment our customers in

addition to what
you've already heard,

one lens, and these
are tests that

aren't yet fully
baked out.

But one lens is

understanding the
potential share wallet,

the potential of
an account and

working with sales to come

up with some
algorithm that says,

this should be $100,000

account even though
they're only

spending 15 and applying

the right CSM resources
to that opportunity.

We've ran a test
that showed

some really
promising results

against the control group,

and so we're going to test

that a little bit more and

figure out if there's

more we should
be doing there.

And then the second thing
is we're looking at

the customer life cycle

and trying to figure out,

where do we apply
our resources

through that
customer life cycle.

And probably no surprise

to anyone in this room,

we have a strong premise
that the early life,

what we call the
enablement phase,

which we define
internally as

desert day 90 is

the most critical part of

the customer life cycle.

If we get that right,

everything else
downstream 12

months later, 24
months later,

36 months later,
it's cheaper,

it's easier, and you
actually don't have to

apply as much resource
and cost against that.

And so we're going to
be heavily weighting

our resources towards

that segment of the
customer life cycle,

which we call
enablement internally.

>> We've actually seen
something similar.

We surveyed a bunch of

our portfolio companies
for about some of

the leading indicators of

churn 6 months later,
9 months later,

and a lot of
it always goes

back to that
first 90 days,

and was the
initial deployment

fast quick time to ROI?

And if you do that,
the likelihood

of them actually renewing

or upselling later that
year is much higher.

So do you guys

remember just out
of curiosity,

when did you
realize that you

needed to go through

this segmentation
exercise?

Was there a point in time

or this is breaking.

It doesn't work
anymore. Hair on fire.

And was it when
you got to 1,000

customers or 100
million of ARR,

or is there some milestone

where it's like

the systems just
stop working.

Everybody gets
everything model too,

we have to start
segmenting

that people should be

looking out on
the horizon for.

>> Our segmentation
started

many, many years ago,

at least in our larger,

what we call
corporate accounts.

And it was largely
driven by sales

in saying I've sold
this customer,

and I'm getting
burdened with

all of this activity.

Can you guys
help? And it was

an ass to the support
team at the time.

And this is probably
about ten years ago.

And so what we
started to do was

build out what we
called at the time,

a key account
management team,

which we now call CRMs.

And then we started

to create some
differences there.

But it was largely
sales-driven

based upon customer need.

>> So when I joined Box
about five years ago,

we were about
a $25 million

ARR new bookings business,

and a $50,000 customer

would be one of our top
five at that point.

And we were already pretty

creaky from a
CSM perspective,

because in those days,

the model was basically
sales would close

the deal and then
throw everything

over the wall to the CSM.

We had a different
name for it then.

And they were
doing everything.

And when I was
interviewing,

I was talking to
someone who was

in the organization
and said,

how many accounts
do you each have?

And it was something
like 5,000.

And I didn't even
understand what that meant.

What do you do with
5,000 customers?

It doesn't make any sense.

And fairly
quickly, we moved

to a model where we put
in place a threshold.

We've now raised
the threshold

twice since I joined.

And I do think it's
one of the things that

SaaS companies have to

do naturally over time,

as your customer
base grows,

you have to keep
raising that threshold.

And the trick is, again,

not to raise the threshold

and leave all
those customers

below the threshold
behind and in the dust,

but actually
provide really

great programmatic
experience

for them so they

can get the help
that they need.

>> So I've only been at

LinkedIn for a
year and a half,

but I would echo what

Jon is saying about

constantly evolving,

like I was saying earlier.

And so we will
constantly evolve.

We have been evolving for

the year and a half
that I've been there.

And to the point about

making sure that you've
got good programs,

when people talk
about scale,

often internally,
you'll say,

well, I don't want
to leave my customer

behind, to Jon's point.

I always talk about ATMs,

which now I should
probably update

my analogy to talk
about online banking.

But when ATMs came around,

no one said, oh,
my goodness,

I don't get to
talk to the teller

and wait in line for
the teller anymore.

Everybody was
happy about it.

The banks were
happy. We're happy.

Same with online banking.

Banks are happy,
we're happy.

That's the type of
thing we're striving

for when we

scale is something that

the customers will
be excited about,

because, to Scott's
point, it's on 24/7.

They'll be able to

leverage whenever
they want,

and we'll be
able to scale.

>> To talk a
little bit about

as you guys have gone
through this journey,

what are some of the most

effective levers
that you've used

to increase the efficiency

of the customer success
team in aggregate,

and then the customer
success, operator,

the actual
professional out

in the field trying to
serve those accounts.

What are some of
those key levers

that have been
successful for you guys?

>> Scott, you want
to go for it?

>> Sure. Probably
the biggest lever

that I've seen.

So one clearly systems,

you have to have systems
that people can use.

One system that
incorporates in

the various different data

feeds that you have
in your business.

And so, putting
the right energy

and effort and
focus behind that,

I think, is
really important.

And that more
speaks to the

CSM's effectiveness
and efficiency.

From an overall customer
success strategy

within our business,

there are probably
two things

that are most important.

One is strong partnerships

across the entire
organization around

understanding

everyone has a role
in customer success.

And then the second one is

around data and the
right insights.

And we've
invested a lot in

the last 18 months on
data and insights.

And I think if you
ask any of my team

that's sitting
up front here,

they would tell
you the data that

they have access to

today versus what they had

two years ago is vastly,

vastly different in terms

of real time and how

they get it and how
it's fed to them.

And so I think
that data is

not just used by
the CSM team.

It's used by
the sales team.

It's used by the
product team.

It's used by the
marketing team.

It's pervasive across
the organization.

So it's really a data-led

insight to load strategy,

so we know we're taking
the right actions

across the business
across all departments.

>> I'd echo, as well,

the tying with other
organizations.

I'd say the biggest lever

for scaling customer
success is product.

And if you're
working closely

with product or even if

product figures it
out without you,

if they make a product
that is simpler,

more engaging, stickier,

then the whole
company wins.

And that is massive,

and having

that relationship is
really important.

And if you come to them,

understanding what
their objectives are

and understanding that
when you come to them,

it's not going to
be just about you

whining to help
your needs,

but you're going to
actually say, hey,

this is how you can meet

your objectives better
and we can give

you input and let you

do what you do
really well,

then that will help.

And right next
to that would

be working with
marketing, for example,

we've got a great content

marketing relationship
marketing team

at LinkedIn and working
with them to be

able to leverage

the best practices
that we provide and

the data that
Scott was talking

about to be able

to engage with
customers and the like.

So those are using

that in addition
to systems, etc,

but working with

the other organizations
and having

the whole company be
bought into making

our customers
actually successful

is the biggest lever.

And then for individuals,
I would say,

making sure that you
cut out the noise,

the CSMs can be

a dumping ground for

the world unless you have

a clear objective
unless you state

that objective with
everybody else and

get the
organization sales,

etc., bought into
what you're trying to

accomplish and
that you're there

to help them help
the customer.

But you need to make
sure that you have

clear priorities
and that the team

does not become a
dumping ground.

And then if you have

clear priorities
and you have

clear metrics for
simple metrics

that they can align to,

that helps them
scale as well.

>> I'll add in
one thing there,

around having

clear responsibilities
defined internally.

I think the other element

that we've seen is also

really communicating
that to

your customers during
the onboarding process,

letting them know where to

go to get the
right support.

We don't want
their CSM to be

the single point
of contact

for that customer
into the business.

We have a 24/7
support team

that's available for them.

They serve a number of
different functions.

There are things
they can get in the

product or off
of the website.

So we make sure, as
part of the onboarding,

we're pointing
customers to

that stuff as well.

>> So I think these
guys are right,

and I would echo
all of that,

maybe add to it that

we think of
customer success.

Ideally, it is a very
integrated set of

things and forces

that we apply to
the customer.

So everything

from the onboarding
process that

our consulting team drives

to admin and end
user education,

our community site,
all that falls

under the umbrella
of customer success.

And I think applying
those all equally to

the customer is a

real force
multiplier for us.

>> Just building on
some of these points,

Brett, I'll hand it back
to you in a second.

The companies I work with

one really interesting
thing I would note is

the healthiest
companies I work with

tend to lead with
customer success.

They recognize
from the CEO down

it's really the heartbeat
of the company,

and that they are
the ones that have

the clearest sense about

the health of the
business, what's going on.

They feed data into
product, to your point,

Brett about really having

a close relationship with

the product because
they're closest to it.

I mean, they're
dealing with

the customers who are

living in that product
day in day out.

And then, interestingly,

we're doing some
work on this now,

but the companies across
our portfolio that

the highest NPS
scores also

have the most efficient
sales organizations.

And so there is this

clear causal
relationship that

if you're investing
in customer success

and you have
high NPS scores,

you tend to have

a much more efficient
sales organization,

which makes all
the sense in

the world because
there's a halo effect.

People are saying

good things about
the product.

They're having a
good experience.

The sales guys are
able to leverage that

and benefit

from the work that
you guys are doing.

So that also is a force

multiplier, Jon,
to your point.

>> I was going to add that

I hear a lot in
conferences like this,

including in
this one, about

working with sales
and making sure

that they're selling
the right things

and making sure
handoffs are right.

And we work on all that
as well, of course,

and it will
always be a work

in progress because
sales teams change.

But we work on the
handoffs, etc.

But other thing
that we've done at

LinkedIn is we've
got a really

insightful Sales Ops team,

and they've looked at
the types of customers

that we sell to
that never are

successful or that are
rarely successful.

And they've
taken those out

of the hunter's books,

so they're not even going

to try to sell to them.

And we've seen some impact

with that already since

they've done that
over the last year.

>> That's a key part

of the segmenting
exercise,

which is actually who
can be successful and

eliminating that
whole cohort

of customers from

the sales process
from the get-go.

That makes everybody makes

the company
healthier long term.

So Jon, a few minutes ago,

you mentioned a ratio

between CSMs
and customers,

and it was totally out of

whack when you joined Box,

and you've kind
of rationalized.

How should how do

you guys think
about these ratios?

Should it be a CSM to
a number of accounts?

Should it be based
on the revenue that

the CSM is
accountable for?

What's the right way to

think about the allocation

of CSM resources to
customers or revenue?

And how do you guys
reconcile that?

>> So the honest answer
is, I don't know.

And I'd say from a
ratio perspective,

you never really
where you want to be.

I always you could
always get better.

And I think your CSMs

will always feel
like, gosh,

if I could only spend more

time with this customer,

the outcome
would be better.

Maybe to the point
where you could if you

could afford to
do one-to-one,

you would do it.

I think it depends
on your product

and adoption, and
everything else.

Um today,

probably shouldn't say

exactly what
our ratios are,

but our ratios vary by

segment and value
of the customer.

We do it based on number

of customers as
opposed to AR,

but we do occasionally

sort of double-check
against

the AR to see that
it's rational.

But you're constantly
working internally

to justify better
and better ratios.

And one of the
things that we're

doing right now
actually is

a little bit of a pilot,

more than an experiment,

less than full GA

for something we
call key accounts,

which is basically
giving a small set of

CSMs a much smaller
customer ratio.

But then I think also
very, very importantly,

a much smaller
CSM-to-sales-rep ratio.

Because one of the
challenges we have

today is that a CSM

could be working
with any one of

20 or 30 different AEs,

depending on how many
accounts they have,

and you never
really get into

that relationship and
cadence with the ED

around talking about
account strategy and

retention and renewal
and expansion strategy.

So we're experimenting
with this with

four CSMs fairly
soon here.

We've got three,
adding one more.

And the idea is,

if we can demonstrate
the ROI by going

to that much leaner
account ratio,

then we'll go
back and say,

now let's do this
more broadly

across the CSM team.

>> Any early data on

the experiment in terms

of how it's performing?

>> So we're one
quarter in.

So the first
quarter data is

not really
meaningful at all.

I think retention
rates look pretty

much the rest of
the field does.

But what's interesting
is the anecdotal data

is super interesting.

The feedback we're getting

from the AEs,
from the CSMs,

and then even
interestingly,

from the customers,

I got a couple
of unsolicited

emails from
customers saying,

the time I was just
able to spend with

my CSM was so helpful

to me in thinking about

box and how it fits
into my business and

how it can help me solve

problems in a way that

they'd never had that
interaction before.

That makes sense.

>> That makes sense.

>> I'll build on
that real quickly,

just on a test
that we ran to

put some numbers behind

the test you're running.

When we went
down and applied

a higher touch model to
call it our mid tier,

we were able to drive

a six-point improvement in

NPS in a six-month period,

and we're able to
drive $250,000

in incremental
annualized sales.

So it definitely
does work,

and you do get repaid

for your additional
effort there.

But you have to
make sure you're

targeting the
right customers.

>> Well, I think
the main thing that

we're hearing is that
to your first point,

none of us know, and
we're all testing.

We're testing as well.

Have a variety of
different approaches.

And one thing that

was insightful
as well that Jon

was talking about,
I won't add much,

but the comment about
working with sales,

and we've tried to
limit that and focus on

one-to-one or one to
a few salespeople.

So they can
really strengthen

those relationships
and then have

those relationships
with the customers.

Because one of the
other things we heard

a couple of years ago from

our customers was we were

changing the people
who are managing

the relationship with

the customers
way too often.

And so we've really
worked on changing that,

so we will keep
a salesperson

as best as possible
with the customer,

even if they've
grown and would have

grown out of one
of our segments,

we'll keep them in
there for a while.

And where we
can't do that,

we'll keep the CSM
associated with them.

So anyway, that's
really important.

The rest, I couldn't
add anything.

>> Again, my own anecdotal

experience with
a couple of

my portfolio companies
that went through

this enterprise
segmentation exercise,

similar to what
you're doing, Jon.

Was three, four
quarters in.

When they picked their top

20% of their accounts,

which was usually 50%
or more of the revenue,

NPS scores more
than doubled

because they had a
much more focused

support organization
on them.

Upsell rates, renewals

all increased
substantially.

It goes back to this
connection between NPS,

upsells, renewals,
sales efficiency,

and we saw in spades.

Hey, so in one
minute, I'm going to

ask the audience
for questions.

I've got one additional

question for you
guys first, though.

How do you guys manage

morale in your
organizations?

Because a lot of times,

the customers
aren't happy,

and it's a hard job.

And I had a really
interesting discussion

with Alison Pickens
from Gains side

a couple of
evenings ago about

this exact topic
because somebody

that doesn't have
the right morale

or doesn't have
a good attitude

about the business
can be a real

virus for the customers,

and that seeps into

the customer's experience
with the company.

How do you guys
see that issue?

How do you root it out?

How do you address it?

>> I think with morale,

you want to be managing
it all way before

anybody gets to that point

as best as possible.

>> I had this
interesting conversation

with the sales
lady where she

was expressing concerns
about our team.

And then I talked
to her about stuff,

and she was like, oh,

I love your team. You
guys are doing great.

But I talk about

continuous
improvement all the

time with my sales team.

And I said, oh, yeah.
Okay, I get that.

But you got to

understand that
in the CSM world,

our CSMs are dealing with

difficult customers
all the time.

In the sales world,
every time you do

anything close to right,
it gets celebrated.

And so in the CSM
world, that's not true.

They're having

difficult conversations
all the time.

And so we try to

build them up and
to celebrate them

and not nitpick and

manage every little detail

and why did this go wrong?

Why did that go wrong?

But give them
an objective,

make sure they're bought
into the objective,

and then give them
some leeway to manage

their accounts
the way that they

see fit as long as they're

working toward
that objective.

And then if we
have the case of

somebody who's
causing problems

or has morale issues,

then we're going
to work with them

and put them on a plan

and work through with
them if we need to.

>> Jon or Scott,
anything in that?

>> Yeah, so it's

a complicated
topic because it's

a very difficult
job, as you say.

And even if you're
not dealing

with difficult customers,

it's still a hard job.

It's just there's
a constant stream

of work that needs
to get done.

I think it's important
to think about it

proactively from

a performance
management perspective.

You've got someone
who's not it's

the what you do and
the how you do it.

We focus a lot on the how.

I think we focus a lot on

the notion of
these are roles,

a lot of them
that are really

starter roles or
mid career roles,

where you use
that as a base

for doing something else.

And so the focus on

career mobility
into other roles,

more senior
roles both in CS

and elsewhere in the
company is pretty

important because
you can show people

a path for, this is what
you're doing today.

It's tough, but
here's what you

could be doing by
building these skills.

And I think the
recognition piece

is really important, too,

and I think it's

important that
it doesn't just

come from the head
of customer success.

Because I think we
all know what an

awesome job our teams do,

but what they want
to hear is that

the rest of the company
agrees with that.

And I remember
early days at Box,

going to the head of sales

where the win notifications
would go out,

and there's
always shoutouts

to the sales team

and the SE and everyone

else who supported
the deal,

legal, even, so What
about customer success?

And I have to go ask deal

by deal for that
recognition.

Today, if you look at
our wind notifications,

there's always someone or

multiple people from
the CS organization

who are being called out

by the rep for helping
get the deal done.

>> That's great.

>> I think they really
touched on all of it.

We focus on recognition
and rewards.

So really
incentivize you're

going to recognize in
the right behaviors.

It's a commitment
to career mobility.

I know in our business,

our organization has
the largest mobility

of people being promoted
and transferred

into other teams.

I think the last two
years we hit over 20%.

It's probably closer
to 20 per 24%

every year of
people taking on

a new role and a
new responsibility.

And the other
thing we do is

we try to create this,

while the job does get

monotonous and you are

dealing with customers,

actually do a lot of
internal project work,

and we try to get
people involved in

projects that
have a really

meaningful impact,

where we identify
big opportunities.

And so by getting

them involved in
those projects and

workstreams and being
able to contribute and

interact with a
broader set of

employees across different

functional areas to solve

a problem really is

invigorating and
gets them engaged.

And so we focus
a lot on that.

And then one last
point is we have

NPS measures down to
every care interaction,

assuming the
customer responsor

the survey around
every individual,

and that's a core part
of our one on ones

every week when we

run one on ones
with our team.

We review the
customer feedback

and the verbatims
and we use it

as a coaching
opportunity and

a development opportunity
if one applies.

>> And around the
mobility side,

it's important
that they see it,

as you guys are
saying, that they see

it actually in practice
that it's happening.

And then it's important
that those people who

are moving on to other
roles are really

successful in
those roles and

that you tout that and
that you talk that.

And so we work with

our teams to make
sure that they are

going to be successful

when they move
on and make sure

that the work that
they're doing here will

build for the future, too.

>> Great. So with that,

I want to open it up to

the audience
for questions.

There should be some
runners around there.

I see a hand up in
the front here.

We'll go with that.
That's a microphone.

>> [LAUGHTER] I feel
a little silly.

I have a question

what metrics you use
to measure your CSMs?

>> The metrics we
use in turn of

the primary metric
we use is NPS,

because we believe
that we're

responsible delivering

the great customer
experience.

And then the advocacy
that comes out of that,

we believe is the Uber
metric, let's say.

Underneath that,
we look at

things like time to value,

usage rates and
things like that,

and customer health
scores that are

all we like to
think of those as

leading indicators
to retention.

We used to go our
teams on retention,

whether it's

gross retention
or net retention,

but we don't anymore

because we feel
like those are

lagging indicators
and drilled

the wrong focus on
wrong behavior.

So we try to focus
on the leading

indicators as
much as we can.

>> So we actually do
focus on retention,

and that's what
we pay people on.

They're variable.

And the things
underneath for us are

customer outreach and

our customer
success plans,

usage, things like that.

The reason we
focus on retention

still is even though it is

a lagging indicator,

we think of it
as an objective

because if you're
thinking about retention,

you're going
to think about

your relationship
with the customer

in a different way than if

you're just thinking
about usage.

So you will start doing

things in the small
business world,

especially, but
everywhere,

champions will leave.
They'll move on.

So we should
plan for that.

And so we should make
sure that the CSMs

know multiple people at
the customer and that

they've worked in
multiple relationships,

things like that.

>> So we have

four primary
categories of metric,

customer satisfaction,
adoption, retention,

and expansion,

and there's submetrics
within those.

So we're looking at

those primarily as
output metrics.

You're right, there's
a lot that goes into

it in terms of
activity and all that,

but we focus mainly
on the output.

>> Is there

another question out
in the audience?

There's a few more?
Sure, over there.

>> Hi. I'm Annie
Wu with Mind Body.

So I'm overseeing
customer service,

which includes
a success team.

My question is, how do I

influence marketing
and sales

to come along on
this journey?

Because it is a
little disruptive to

how they've been
doing things.

>> So I'll get
really tactical real

quickly if that
would help.

So from a sales
standpoint,

we focused a lot on
the initial handoff

and understanding

why did the
customer purchase?

So when we're
onboarding them,

we can really hit

on the outcomes that
they're trying to drive.

It allows us to create

that real tight
connection point.

We also believe that

if we get customers
off on the right foot,

they add on sooner
and they'll retain,

which the sales
reps benefit from.

So we really
focus on that,

and we went so far I had

approached the
VPA sales and

worked with her on putting
a metric in place,

so sales is paid on
the handoff and then

the adoption and use of

the products at Day 90.

So we're completely
aligned there.

On marketing, have

a great partnership
with marketing,

and we really unlocked
a partnership with

marketing when we did

something a little bit
unique and embedded

a product manager
in marketing

to take on driving

engagement and
enablement programs.

From my experience
is the product

manager had a
different lens.

They understood what you

can do within the product,

and they thought a little

bit more broadly than

campaigns and

more nurturing or
drip campaigns,

and it really unlocked
the potential

of getting us to
work together.

So it was getting
the right person in

the role and then having

some shared goals as well.

Shared goals went
a long way for us.

>> I'd say when
working with

sales or any organization,

cross organization,
you have to

understand
what's in it for

them, and especially
with sales.

But what's in it for them?

What are they going
to get out of it?

And to Scott's point,

they're going to get
a lot out of it.

And there's a lot of
data in the industry.

Gainsight has a
lot of data where

you can tout that
and talk about that.

And similar
with marketing,

although if marketing
is only about Lee Gen,

that discussion

becomes a little
more difficult.

If they get

the sense of
relationship marketing,

then you can be golden.

>> Anything you
want to add on?

>> I would just
say do really

good work with
your customers and

bring those stories
back into the company.

We use the term voice
of the customer,

but I think CS,

we always think about
our responsibility

to the customer primarily,

but I think you should
also think about

our responsibility
to the company.

Your people in
the customer

success function
are the people

along with sales
spending the most time

talking directly
with customers,

and the more
you bring that

in and go to
sales and say,

here's what's working
and not working.

When you position
the product that

way or from a
marketing perspective.

The more you can
bring that knowledge

and intelligence
into the company,

I think the more
influential

your organization will be.

>> Great. So
unfortunately,

we have the red
light blinking here,

which means we're
out of time.

If it's okay with
the panelist,

I'm going to try and

summarize some of
the key takeaways.

So just a couple of
things just to make this

actionable and provide you

guys with a cheat sheet.

Number 1 is going

through this
segmentation exercise.

It will set you free,

and it will allow you
to really understand

your customers in a
very nuanced way.

Averages are
very misleading.

And so really segmenting

your customers
into the right

tiers makes a
lot of sense.

Number 2, actually, I
lost my slide here,

but I'll try and
remember it.

Experiment. Test a lot of

things and see what
actually works.

And as thank you.
And as it works,

start to scale it
and build on it.

But there should
be a culture of

experimentation
so that you're

constantly trying to
learn what types of

interaction models and
support models work

well for

your different
segments of customers.

Number 3 is, get

your arms around the
data and the tools.

You need to actually
test these things,

run it so you have a
baseline of knowledge.

Gainsight happens to be

a great product
to do this.

I'm obviously biased.

But I would
certainly start

there because
without that data,

it's very hard to make
informed decisions

on how you're
going to continue

to iterate and improving.

And then finally
is motivation.

We talked a little bit
about this kind of

morale issue and
culture issue.

There's things
you can do to

obviously manage
your teams and

things I think to get more

visibility across
the company.

The thing I
mentioned before,

this notion that's
correlating

high NPS scores with
sales efficiency,

really look into that.

It's not an accident,

and there's real data

out there that
will show this.

And I think the more
points that you can

prove showing

investments in
customer success,

drive higher NPS scores,

drive more sales
efficiency,

you're going to have a
lot more visibility,

a lot more
success, and a lot

more awareness
throughout the company.

I'll be on everybody's
radar screen.

So with that,

I really want to
thank the panelists.

You guys did
an awesome job

and everybody have a
great time at Pulse.

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