The Rise of Digital People: Mustafa Suleyman and Ian Bremmer on the Future of AI

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- [Ian] In the past year,

artificial intelligence
has captured our imagination

like never before
and like nothing else.

It's transformed everything
from how we work,

to how we perceive
the world around us,

to increasingly
who we are as people.

And with this technological
renaissance,

there are very few names

that stand out as prominently
as Mustafa Suleyman.

He has a career
that's deeply rooted in AI.

He's been at the forefront
of this field

for well over a decade,

co-founding DeepMind

and playing a critical role

in its mission
to solve intelligence

and to use it to make
the world a better place.

And today,
we're sitting down with Mustafa

to discuss
both the exciting potential of AI,

as well as concerns
about the future of AI.

Mustafa, thank you for joining us.

Mustafa, you've been working
on artificial intelligence

for, you know,
like almost 20 years now, right?

So what's happened
that has made this

such an omnipresent thing
in all of our lives?

- [Mustafa] Well,
for much of that time,

like you said,

I've been among a small group
of very fringe AI researchers

who mostly been considered
to be a little bit crazy.

Back in 2010,
when I first started DeepMind,

most people who heard
that I was working on AI

thought that I was really

nothing to do
with mainstream culture,

a weirdo futurist,

and working on something
that was very speculative.

So for as long as I can remember,

we've been an outsider

and in the last sort of few years,
I would say,

it's kinda grown
in the popular imagination.

I think a lot of that started
several years back with AlphaGo,

which was an AI that we designed

to play the ancient Chinese
board game of Go,

which is played
on a 19 x 19 square grid.

- It's a lot more complicated
than chess, absolutely.

- Yeah. It was kind
of the next big frontier for AI

after IBM beat the game of chess
with Deep Blue back in 1997,

and obviously, as everyone knows,
that's on an 8 x 8 grid,

and the pieces can only move
in very fixed ways,

whereas on a 19 x 19 grid,
not only is it that much larger,

but all the pieces are equal,

there's just black
and white stones,

and you can place them
anywhere on the grid.

So the number of possible moves
that can happen in the board game

are just exponentially larger,

something like 10^170 possible
configurations of the board.

That is more atoms than there are
in the known universe.

So it's a 10 with 170 zeros
next to it, after it.

It's just an incredibly insane
possible number of configurations.

So all the traditional methods
of rule-based search,

where you would say, "If there are
some pieces in this area,

then don't place them there,
but place them adjacent,"

which is traditionally how people
trained AIs to play chess.

Those methods didn't work

because the size of the space
was just so huge.

So we had to invent
these learning methods,

and over the years,

we've applied
those learning methods

to other domains.

We started off with games,

then moved into image recognition,

then moved into audio transcription

so you can sort of write down
the words that I say phonetically.

And then, in the last couple years,
you know,

coming back to your question

of why things have gone crazy
in the last year or so,

is because we've actually been able
to apply a similar suite of methods

- deep learning -

to generate
new text that is unique, right?

And that's the incredible thing
that has happened here.

We've gone from classification -

so understanding
the content of images,

understanding that two languages
translate in the following way,

understanding the content
of a piece of text or a paragraph -

to then being able to generate
a new example of that paragraph,

or a new image,
or some new speech or music

at human-level performance.

A lot of these AIs now are
pretty much as good as most humans

at being creative
or, you know, answering questions.

- So nowadays,

we can have a conversation
with an AI bot,

and, I mean,
we can't really tell the difference

between it and another human being.

That a fair point, right?

- Yeah. I mean, that is
one of the surreal moments

that we live in, right?

When you talk to one of these AIs,

like ChatGPT,

or my own company, Inflection,
for example, makes an AI called Pi,

p-i, which stands
for personal intelligence.

When you talk to Pi, I mean,

it's just like chatting
to a regular human.

You can actually phone Pi,

and it will speak to you

in a very fluent, smooth,
conversational voice.

It has empathy.
It has emotional intelligence,

And yeah, in many respects,
it's just like talking to a human,

and so many people would say

that we have nearly passed
the famous Turing test,

which was proposed, you know,
back in the 1950s

by this great computer scientist
and mathematician

called Alan Turing,

who said that if you could,
you know, design a computer

to speak to another human,

and it would be impossible to tell

whether it was actually a computer
or a human speaking,

then we could say that that AI
or that computer system

was intelligent
and it had passed the Turing test.

And now, we're pretty much
at that moment.

I think, you know,
it's still possible to tell

if you really pay attention

or if the conversation
goes on long enough.

But if it's only just, you know, two
or three or five turns of conversation,

it's very difficult to tell.

And that's an amazing moment.

- It's not that the AI
is intelligent.

It's just that we perceive it
to be intelligent.

In reality,

it's just taking all of this data
and pattern recognition,

and it's predicting things

on the basis of the prompt
that we write in, right?

I mean, it's a program
at the end of the day.

It's not thinking.

- Well, it's interesting,

because with every new technology,

we're forced to reconsider
our basic assumptions.

So we thought we had a good grasp
of what intelligence is

because it was compared
to passing the Turing test.

Whereas now we've passed
the Turing test,

people are like,

"Well, maybe it's not
that intelligent after all," right?

So maybe it wasn't
a very good test.

And that is the process of science,
is that we posit a hypothesis,

we develop some, you know, experiments
to test that hypothesis,

and then, we review the evidence
and we generate a new test.

And so today,

we have to generate a new test,

because it's pretty clear

that these things
are not really intelligent,

even though they're very capable.

So I've proposed a new test,
a modern Turing test,

which actually evaluates
what an AI can do,

not just what it can say.

So I think
a better measure of an AI

is an artificial
capable intelligence,

an ACI.

So what what can this thing do
in the labor market?

What jobs can it do?

Can it write emails?

Can it negotiate contracts?
Can it invent new products?

Can it, you know,

market and promote a product
and persuade people to buy it?

And if it can do
all of those things,

and, you know, do it in a way

that enables it to make
a profit on a product,

that's kinda like
a mini entrepreneur.

It's like a little startup person.

And I think that over the next
sort of three or four years,

there will be AIs that can do
all those things I've described

and actually turn a real profit
from a new product.

And that'll be a watershed moment,

because that's many of the skills

that a lot of people use
in their day to day jobs.

- So I want to get to the future,

but let's start with the present
just for a moment.

I mean, for young people today

that are hearing
about artificial intelligence,

as so many of us are,
for the first time,

if they're curious,

what should they be doing
with artificial intelligence?

How should a person start engaging

in a way that will be constructive
and useful for their future?

- Well, the first thing to say
is that these AIs

have all of the knowledge

that has been put
on the open internet.

So they're actually
extremely smart.

Not only have they been trained
on Wikipedia many, many times over,

but they've read
millions of blog posts,

millions of news articles,

many books in many cases
that are available on the open web,

and so they're very knowledgeable.

So the first thing to do
is just talk to one.

Pick a topic
that you are really interested in,

maybe one that you know
something about,

and try to test the limits
of the AI's knowledge

by probing it, and questioning it,
and going back and forth.

I'm sure many people
have already tried them out.

And I think, you know
give Pi a go.

It's really
an incredible experience.

And once you play around with it
a little bit,

you realize, A, the magic
and how impressive it is,

but B, where it kind of trips up.

Sometimes it goes in circles.

Sometimes it doesn't remember
things correctly.

And that gives you an intuition

for where the cutting edge
is today,

where it's weak,
and where it's strong.

And then I would say,
if you're really interested,

is try and prompt one of these AIs.

Try and give it a stylistic guide.

You know, try and get it to,

you know, talk in the style
of, you know, President Obama,

or, you know, one of your favorite
celebrities, or Shakespeare.

You know,
and invent something with it,

you know, treat it as an aid,
a creative brainstorming partner,

and then you can see again
what the shape of it is.

And if you want to go even further,

you know, many of these models

are available
in open source software,

and you can have a go
at trying to program one of them.

- And what's something
that you could program

an AI today to do
that would be interesting?

I mean, you could program it,
for example,

to be a, you know, expert
in Formula One racing

and talk to you
in the style of Shakespeare,

if you like.

You know, it can embody
the character and persona

of anything that you can imagine,

and take advantage
of the depth of knowledge

that it has been trained on.

So it might be an expert
in talking about cactuses.

It might know everything
about Harley Davidsons.

It might know all
about the dinosaurs.

Anything that you can think of,

it is going to be able to imitate
that knowledge

in a particular style.

And so, the world is your oyster.

You can create game characters.

You can create,
you know, little aides,

or assistants, or friends,

you know, to play with
or to talk to,

fiction
that you can co-write together,

you know,
you write part of the story,

the AI writes
the other part of the story.

So, you know, it's really limitless
what can be done with these things.

- And you and I are great optimists

on how much AI is doing
and where this technology is going.

But we're also very well aware

that with all
of these opportunities

to program AI
to do incredible things,

if you want to program it
to do bad things,

you probably can.

And I mean, you can use it
to learn and promote information,

but you can use it
to promote disinformation,

and to fake people,

and to get people
to believe things that aren't true.

What do we need to do
to limit the potential

for AI to be used in ways
that are dangerous for our society?

- Well, one of the things is that,
at the moment,

many of the AI services
are available

through large,
established providers,

and those providers
have all committed

to responsible
and ethical principles.

And it's incumbent on all of us
to hold those providers to account

based on what they've said,

so, about not spreading
misinformation,

not spreading
factually untrue content,

and you know, crucially,

I think, not imitating
a known public figure, right?

Because what we don't want
is to have a bunch of AIs

that, you know,
where in the future,

it will be impossible
to tell whether, you know,

a celebrity, or a politician,
or a business person,

you know, had in fact given
a message, or said something,

made a recording,
issued a statement,

but in fact,
it was actually a deep fake,

it was a made-up piece of content.

And at the moment,

most of the big providers
of these AIs are very responsible

and take lots of efforts
to prevent those kinds of things.

I think, in the future,
these models are going to be

increasingly available
in open source,

and so,
that's going to get harder to,

you know, sort of contain
and to moderate.

- And when you say in open source,

you mean, like,
you're not going to just get it

from Meta, or Google,
or Microsoft, or Inflection,

that you could get it
just like on the open web.

And then the rules are

whatever the rules happen to be
for that provider.

- Yeah. And I think
that's going to become

more and more a challenge
of the open Internet,

is, you know, where are
the boundaries of that,

and how does it get restricted?

Because, you know,

you're going to be able
to take this software

and run your own AI

independent of any big provider
in five years time, right?

I mean, today you can run them,
you know, in the open source,

and they're pretty good,
but in the future,

they're going to be
really, really good.

So we just have to think
about the right way to make sure

that we have stable
and peaceful outcomes

and that the transition
to this new AI future

doesn't happen too quickly,
and isn't too chaotic,

because as we've seen in the past,

sometimes there can be
unintended consequences.

Now we aren't yet at the point that
we would use an AI to be our lawyer.

We might use it to help our lawyer,

but we wouldn't use it to be it or
to be our teacher or to be our nurse.

But it sounds like in in
very short periods of time,

you believe that AI is going to be able
to replace a lot of these functions.

Take us a little bit along
that path. Not all the way yet,

but just like the next year or two.

Because I mean, we keep seeing
all of these new announcements

and,

you know, you said, well, AI can generate
text and it can sound like a human being.

Yeah. But you can have
a conversation with it.

Well, now we see AI can generate images

and there are images that are more
impressive than almost any artist

or graphic design. Then now we see
just recently AI can generate video

and and can generate a movie that, I
mean, you know, you would see in Hollywood

maybe or really close.

What what's coming next? What

do we see in the next year or
two that's gonna blow our minds

that we're gonna start using everywhere?

I think that the reality is that
over the next two to three years,

we are going to be surrounded by
a new species of digital people.

And you know we have wrestled with
different metaphors for describing

this new technology era

for many decades and none of them seem
to be sufficient or up to the task.

You know, some people have compared AI
to another general purpose technology

like electricity.

General purpose because
it's like a raw commodity

that enables many many other
technologies and products and services

to be built on top of it. I mean, who could
think of living in a model world today

without electricity? You
know, going back even further,

the printing press was an earlier general
purpose technology because it it enabled

anybody to broadcast their
ideas and organize and plan

and so on. So many meta capabilities
arose because of the that platform.

Or the Internet.

Same thing.

Or indeed the Internet. That's another good
example of a general purpose technology.

But today, it's hard to say that
AI is a general purpose technology.

I mean, it certainly is,
but that's not all it is.

It is interactive.

It produces new and
dynamically emergent content

in a personalized way uniquely
to you at every moment.

That is very different

to the very predictable nature of
electricity, for example. Right?

The actual infrastructure of the
Internet was very stable and predictable.

We know exactly how many
packets can be sent across

a certain wire of a certain
speed at a certain time.

Whereas here, this is like a
completely new design material.

Right? That that no two answers to the
same question will be the same. Right?

Every interaction is very different. And
now that these interactions are becoming

completely dynamic. Right?

What you know, you say something, the
AI says something, you say something,

It's actually much more like
talking to a full digital person.

So in two or three years' time, there
will be an avatar that will be a human

like or other kind of character
representation that is very animated

and just like you or I
speaking to one another now.

As you say, it will be able to generate
video in real time completely seamlessly

on your phone, on your desktop,
on your tablet, in your car.

Right?

And so rather than browsing

a web page, right, today when
you go to look for information,

you type a query into Google,

and you get a static web page

that was probably made two years ago or
maybe even some cases five years ago.

And that's like a a billboard.

Right? It's a static
representation that doesn't change.

And it doesn't it certainly doesn't
change to adapt to you or me.

Right? It's just we both see the same
thing. You type in a website. You goes you

we we both see exactly the
same thing regardless of

the time of day or the location or back
history or what we're interested in.

In the future,

content is gonna be served to every
individual in a completely personalized

and interactive way. So
your web page of images

and text and video is gonna
unfurl itself on the fly,

completely novel,

adapted to your interests and what
you've talked about previously

with your AI. And that's just
a completely different paradigm

that I think, you know, we we, you know,
people are sort of not quite yet grasping.

Mustafa, when you say digital
people, what do you mean by that?

Well, if you think about it,
what makes a person a person is

my ability to speak to you right now,

my ability to see what you see,
and my ability to take actions.

So you know buy things, book things,
plan, arrange, coordinate, write emails,

make phone calls.

At some point in the next few years,

an AI is going to be able to do all of
those things pretty much as well as a human.

But of course, it won't be a
human. It will be a digital person

and I think that's
probably the best metaphor

to help us understand what's
coming over the next few years.

What does it mean

as we move into an environment
where so many of the interactions

that we will have will be with digital
people as opposed to people people.

How how do you think
that changes the economy?

How does it change society?
How does it change government?

What what what are some of your thoughts
about that? Well, one of the amazing things

about these digital people is that they
can actually be made to be very controlled,

right? You can actually
design very precise behaviors

and so for example in the
AI that we've made, Pai,

it is very kind and empathetic,

it's very supportive, it's very
encouraging, it's infinitely patient,

it doesn't judge you, right.

And so many of the downsides
of human interaction,

where you might feel socially anxious,

you might feel a bit paranoid about
what the other person's thinking,

you might feel pushed around,

right? Or you might feel that that
other person didn't didn't hear you out.

You know, you were telling a
story about your ski trip and

suddenly they're talking about their ski
trip that they had last year and you're

like wait but I haven't
finished my thought.

And your AI doesn't do that to you. Your
AI is infinitely patient and supportive

and so there's a huge amount of upside
there but it's also a big transition.

Right? Because I think increasingly

people will choose to
spend time with their AI's,

perhaps more than they spend
time with other humans.

And so one of the design considerations

that we have to factor in and we
think about a lot at inflection is

to really pay attention

to the values of the AI and how
we condition and shape the AI.

For example, to encourage you to
spend more time with your loved ones,

to encourage you to be brave and overcome
your social anxiety and go to the party,

to provide you with a safe space to
practice for your interview or your exam,

but still have you focused on being
out in the real world connected,

having experiences with other humans

and so every single discipline

every single area of society is gonna
have to grapple with this new reality

that there will in fact be digital
people that are as you know significant

and as important

as, you know, every other, you know,

sort of relationship in our lives.
I mean, it would be impossible

to consider today not having
a smartphone in your life,

right? Or a laptop.

That that's just become second
nature in in less than a a decade.

Yes. You know, six billion people
have a smartphone now or more. Right?

And so that's probably the trajectory
we're on for these personal intelligences.

I mean, this is the natural evolution
of technology from personal computing

to personal intelligence. And I I think
people will be relieved to hear you say

that you find it important that
the values of these AI people

that you are developing,
that you're inventing,

needs to be humane and needs to keep
people engaging with other people.

Of course,

you and I can both imagine that there
are going to be lots of corporations

that want to maximize
profitability and therefore ensure

that people are engaging with their
AI as much as humanly possible,

just as some companies do with their
smartphones or their applications.

Just as sometimes you wanna sell
as much food as you possibly can

to a person. So even if it means that
they're obese, all of these things.

And I wonder, I mean, do you think that

how do we guard against the excesses
that comes from a technology

that is changing so much faster

than our ability to understand it,
train with it, prepare for it? I mean,

you know, we're going to be mostly

the people we are right now,

and these things are suddenly
just gonna be poof around us.

Right? It's not like we can
train people to, like, okay.

This is, like, you've gotta grow into
becoming an adult, and here's what it is.

You know, it's it's just gonna be there.

Well, look, I I think that, you know,
we are making incredible progress

as a civilization including

on the corporation front. Right?

And society is changing much faster
than I think people fully realize.

If you roll back to

the 50s and the kinds of companies
that we had and the kind of

you know way that they would
externalize their downsides

whether it was dumping chemicals
into the into the river,

you know, or you know, really
mistreating their staff in horrible ways.

You know, I think that it's inconceivable
that we would have companies

that are really pushing smoking

in the way that they did back in the
day or really pushing, you know, obesity

and fatty foods. Like, we're
we're really, I think, making a

a a march forward and look,
it's not a solved problem.

You know, fundamentally,

companies are constantly in a
battle to try to be more responsible

and to be more considerate and
respectful of their of their people.

All I can say is that
for my part at Inflexion,

we've tried to structure the company

in a way that we proactively
think about those consequences

and we're actually registered legally
as a public benefit corporation.

Oh, okay. So

but now let's go maybe five years in the
future, not ten, not twenty, just five,

where we are already starting
to see AI that is able to do

a lot of the jobs that people that

that people have today, that young people
are thinking about having in the future.

How should how should someone considering

their career adapt to a future of AI
that is so explosive, so transformative,

and so near term,

so much uncertainty

about what society will look like more than
ever in the history of of human beings?

How do how do young people think
differently about preparing

themselves for the future?

Well, the cool thing about it is
that more so than ever before,

these technologies are
accessible and programmable

by people who don't have technical skills.

So you don't have to be a professional
engineer to be able to play with an AI model.

You can prompt it using your own
language with your own own ideas

and that means that you can
bring all your creativity

and you know, all of your inventiveness

to an off the shelf AI
model very very easily.

So, that's the first thing I would
say is, you know, don't be afraid

because people think that there's a
big technical barrier to get over.

That's not true anymore. Secondly,

there's clearly a huge benefit
to people who come from outside

of software engineering

and technical fields actually playing
with these things. So we need more,

you know, wide ranging voices,
people with different backgrounds,

you know,

grabbing hold of this stuff and making new
things with it because all perspectives

are needed at this time.

This is a massive transition just like
the arrival of the internet or the arrival

of of light.

I mean can you imagine what it
was like for the people who first

saw a light bulb turn on and saw the power
of electricity. That sparked a revolution

in people inventing things in
microelectronics and you know

in myriad ways to make our
lives more comfortable.

So think of this as a creative
and exciting moment to

you know be an inventor and
to to use these tools to

you know basically make our dreams
come true. This is a great moment.

Well, let me ask, all of
these transformations,

also create disruptions. Some of those
disruptions are super opportunities.

Some of them are more challenging. If
you're not ready, give us a couple of jobs

that you think people shouldn't actually

want to get into in the next five or ten
years because they're not gonna be around

with AI and why? Well, you know, any
new technology disrupts certain jobs.

Right? So, it's pretty clear that
call center operators, for example,

who manage customer service requests

or even you know who do sales for example.

You know there are going to be AIs
that try to do that more efficiently

and we're already seeing those kinds
of things so that I'd be worried about

those kinds of jobs.

I think that the most valuable skill
sets are going to be those that straddle

creative skills as well as
problem solving and technical.

You know so breadth is
more important than ever.

That's one of the things that
AI's don't do so well is integrate

a wide range of different skills
you know, into a single source.

So, I would say be bold
and do multidisciplinary,

you know, educational courses
that teach you the best of both.

So Mustafa,

this is a technology that will improve
human capabilities to anyone that has them.

It'll lead to faster inventions,

reduced waste, more
efficiency in every field.

As you say, it's more than just
a transformative technology.

It also changes how we think about
the entire world and society.

I'm wondering

for young people today

who who might think about having fifty,
sixty, seventy more years on the planet.

Do, how do you think about their
future? Will they even be recognizable

as human beings when they're adults?
Will they have, do you think they'll have

limitless lifespan?

I mean, in terms of when I think about
applying artificial intelligence to medicine

and to biotechnology and genetics,

I mean, it it really does seem staggering

how much the world could change
from what we can even imagine today.

I mean, I think that's true.

Technology and the scientific process of
invention is there to reduce our suffering.

It's there to make our lives
more peaceful and more enjoyable,

right? You know so just
a few hundred years ago

the average life expectancy was
closer to fifty years old, right?

So we have science has massively advanced

our well-being and health because we've
invented drugs and we've found ways to

you know get more crops for example
out of the same square hectare,

right? I think that is an incredible
achievement of creativity and invention

and we're about to take that engine of
creativity which was our human intelligence

and turn that into a, you know, commodity.

We're gonna make it widely
available to millions of people

to be able to be creative and inventive.
So I think you're totally right.

By twenty fifty, I wouldn't be surprised
if there were people who were being born

that might live for two
to three hundred years.

As we are going to make very
fundamental breakthroughs

in medical science that tackle
aging, right, that cure disease.

And so that raises the question
well what do we do with our lives?

Like how do we live?

What what if if if a large
chunk of people are not working

for their income for most of the day,
then how do we find meaning and purpose?

And people often ask me this
question and I actually think, well,

remember when you were
young and you know, you had

hobbies and passions and ambitions and
desires and you are obsessed with things.

That creativity

and playfulness is increasingly
going to be available to adults

and people of all ages because
I think in the long term future,

the real challenge for us is figuring out
how we support people when they don't work

and maybe give them a
universal basic income

so that for at least a portion of
their week they're freed up from

the everyday grind

of work to take care of their
families, to look after the elderly,

to be more involved in bringing
up children, to support We work

so that we can play,

right?

And so We work so that we can play,

right? And so the goal is to reduce the
amount of work that we are forced to do

and increase the amount of time that
we have for play and for chosen work.

You may choose to still work
super hard. That could be a choice

and it could be very productive,
could be very creative and inventive

but I think that's a much better society
that we wanna live in where most people,

most of the time,

are choosing

how to spend most of their week.
Yeah. And it feels like the pandemic

has in some ways helped us
think about that transition.

Right?

You already have people who say, you
know what? I don't wanna be in the office

from nine to five every day with
a one hour commute both ways.

I actually want to spend
more time with my family,

spend more time with my friends,

with my pets, engage more, live
in a place that I'm happy living.

It turns out that the
pandemic and the technology

that came from, you know, sort of distance
engagement, Zoom calls, all the rest,

technology facilitated more independence

of choice

for people all over the world to live
the way they want to live and balance

their lives with what
they do for a living.

And artificial intelligence

just turbocharges that. Is that is that
the way you're thinking about this?

Yeah. I think that we got a good taster
of prioritization during the pandemic

and in fact that's actually a really
interesting point because it shows you

how you know many unquestioned
assumptions are actually buried

underneath the structure of society.

Who would have thought that we
could actually work entirely

remote and be pretty productive, right?

And you know, there it's not
that it was without consequences

but the world carried on, right?

And there are actually huge
benefits now to working,

you know, part time and not being five days
in the office. Huge, huge benefits. So,

you know, I think that

who who would have thought that
actually that was something that

we could re engineer in terms of society

so I'm very interested in this
question like what are the other things

that we take for granted today

what are the silly rules what are the silly
social habits and customs and practices

and structures that just
are because they were

that we could re engineer and and
turn upside down and make them more,

you know, favorable to every
single one of us as as individuals.

And it turned out we could re engineer
it immediately because we had to,

because the pandemic forced it. It
didn't take years. It took weeks.

It took weeks and people showed they could
actually work completely differently.

You know, I can think of a few
things that could be re engineered

by a society that didn't
have to work for wealth.

You know, gender bias,

right? Racism, nationalism.

I mean, a world where people can actually
live the way they want to and not just

a few people,

but anyone that has access
to these technologies

will be a world where people choose,

not to be discriminated

against to a much greater degree.

Right? Because they don't have to play
those power games that society forces

upon them because that's the way it's
been done for generations and generations.

Yeah. And I I agree.

And

I think one of the other things that is
coming down the line that is gonna change

that is the ability to generate power,

electricity in a decentralized way.

If we really do get a battery breakthrough

in the next twenty years
such that renewables,

you know, I guess primarily

solar but also wind can be generated
very far away from cities and stored

and can carry you through,

that's gonna completely change the way
that cities operate and it's gonna change

how much emphasis we put on living
close to one another or in existing

you know you know existing
cities and and urban areas.

So there's there's lots of those
technological breakthroughs

which I think are cooking
away in the background

which will completely change the social
structure that we are currently so used to.

Mustafa Ghiliman. Thanks
so much for joining.

And for our viewers,

if you're intrigued by the possibilities
of AI and you wanna dive deeper into this

fascinating world, we invite you to check
out our other videos in this series.

And thank you for watching.