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Wee BSL Blethers - Erin and Margaret

  • 0:09 - 0:19
    Hello. My name is Erin McCluskey.
    This is a Wee BSL Blethers video about Deaf model.
  • 0:19 - 0:22
    You will see I have somebody with me.
    Could you introduce yourself please?
  • 0:22 - 0:27
    My name is Margaret McLean.
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    Marvellous! Do you have a sign name, Margaret?
  • 0:29 - 0:30
    Just MML.
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    I’ll call you this sign name today if
    that’s alright? Okay. So I am going to
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    interview Margaret about her childhood.
    Find out what it was like for her growing up,
  • 0:39 - 0:42
    getting her first job and so on.
    I’m really looking forward to finding out more.
  • 0:42 - 0:44
    Margaret, firstly, can I ask what it
    was like for you growing up?
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    Well I come from a Deaf family so BSL
    was used every day at home.
  • 0:48 - 0:51
    I only have a ran into issues outside
    of home, with hearing people.
  • 0:51 - 0:53
    It did make me a bit reluctant to mix.
  • 0:53 - 0:55
    So growing up things were pretty easy
    and comfortable in terms of accessible
  • 0:55 - 0:56
    communication, at home at least?
  • 0:56 - 1:00
    Easy, yes. Everybody signed every day
    within my family so there were no issues at all.
  • 1:00 - 1:03
    So your family were all Deaf then?
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    Yes.
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    Parents? Your siblings?
  • 1:06 - 1:08
    Yes, all Deaf.
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    And were you all close?
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    Yes, we were a close family I would
    say, because of BSL. I was closest to
  • 1:15 - 1:19
    my father because he would tell me
    a lot of stuff. I think he was my
  • 1:19 - 1:22
    role model growing up.
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    How lovely. Your dad was your role model.
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    Yes.
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    He encouraged and supported you growing up?
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    Yes.
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    Marvellous. And that’s a perfect link into
    what I want to ask you about next
  • 1:31 - 1:35
    because I want to talk about school.
    When you first went to school, what was it like?
  • 1:36 - 1:41
    I first went to a local school. One I could
    walk to from home. I think it was only about
  • 1:41 - 1:45
    five minutes away. My parents wanted
    me to go there so I was nearby.
  • 1:45 - 1:48
    They did not want to send me away
    to boarding school.
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    Unfortunately, the focus was very much
    on speaking and listening so my parents
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    eventually decided to send me to a
    school in Glasgow where they used sign language.
  • 1:57 - 2:01
    Makes sense. So your parents decided
    to remove you from that local school
  • 2:01 - 2:03
    because it did not suit you and they
    had to send you away.
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    Were you happy at your school in Glasgow?
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    It was okay. They used sign language
    there, but the teachers couldn’t really
  • 2:10 - 2:14
    sign very well. They would speak and
    throw in a few signs here in there, but not many.
  • 2:14 - 2:17
    And at that time I guess sign language was
    very much seen as undesirable, am I right?
  • 2:17 - 2:20
    Yes. It was a long time ago now and there
    were very old-fashioned views.
  • 2:20 - 2:22
    There was no real awareness of the
    language or its importance.
  • 2:22 - 2:24
    I think things are very different now of course.
  • 2:24 - 2:24
    Yes.
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    So, thinking about school, what was your
    favourite topic and what did
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    you really do not like learning about?
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    I really loved arithmetic. Nobody calls it
    that anymore. It’s become maths now.
  • 2:35 - 2:41
    But we used to call it arithmetic.
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    Oh really! So you were good
    at that and enjoyed it?
  • 2:44 - 2:51
    Yes. I loved arithmetic. I was okay at
    English. The subject I really hated was sewing.
  • 2:51 - 2:52
    Really! Why?
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    Yes! I always used to mess it up and
    get it wrong. I found it really frustrating.
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    Maybe you lacked
    confidence in that subject.
  • 2:58 - 2:59
    I think you’re right.
  • 2:59 - 3:03
    So you progressed through your schooling
    and eventually left school. Did you have any
  • 3:03 - 3:07
    support to help you find a job.
    Did you go to college or university?
  • 3:07 - 3:11
    There was nothing really back then.
    I do remember meeting with the
  • 3:11 - 3:16
    Careers Advisor and telling them
    I wanted to become a Teacher of the Deaf.
  • 3:16 - 3:23
    They told me I could not do that because
    I was Deaf myself. What a discriminatory attitude!
  • 3:23 - 3:26
    I decided to ask the social worker
    about it and told them the same thing,
  • 3:26 - 3:30
    that I wanted to become a Teacher of
    the Deaf. They also told me that I could
  • 3:30 - 3:34
    not do that job and suggested that
    I become a machinist. I refused and they
  • 3:34 - 3:35
    said I would have to go
    to the DHSS in that case.
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    What is the DHSS?
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    It’s what’s known as the DWP these days.
  • 3:38 - 3:39
    Oh I see.
  • 3:39 - 3:44
    Similar to the job centre now. So I went
    along, and they suggested I try for office
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    work, which sounded okay, but it meant
    I had to go to college. They helped me fill
  • 3:49 - 3:51
    in the application forms and I sent
    them off. I soon heard that I’d been
  • 3:51 - 3:55
    offered a place which was great.
    I went to college to learn how to be a secretary,
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    but I found it really difficult
    because I did not have an interpreter.
  • 3:58 - 3:59
    How did you get on?
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    I managed the best I could. I kept asking
    the girl sat next to me what we were
  • 4:04 - 4:05
    supposed to be doing. I think she
    found it a bit frustrating.
  • 4:05 - 4:08
    She was fed up that I was taking up
    her time. I tried my best though and
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    I did get through the course and
    luckily, straight out to work.
  • 4:10 - 4:13
    And you got your certificate? Did you
    go off and work in an office then?
  • 4:13 - 4:16
    Yes that’s right. The course was a year
    and then after that I got a job in an office.
  • 4:16 - 4:18
    I was there for seven years,
    then I left to start a family.
  • 4:19 - 4:23
    So when you became pregnant, you left
    your job and focused on raising your family.
  • 4:23 - 4:26
    Did you take on any other work after that?
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    I did a few little jobs, but nothing
    interesting until I saw an advert for a
  • 4:31 - 4:37
    BSL role model essentially. At that time,
    the role was known as an auxiliary.
  • 4:37 - 4:41
    It’s changed now. I was not successful
    the first time I applied for one of these roles.
  • 4:41 - 4:43
    It wasn’t until my third attempt
    that I finally got a job.
  • 4:43 - 4:45
    Do you know why you were unsuccessful
    the first two times you tried?
  • 4:45 - 4:48
    I don’t know. I think it was because the
    organisation at that time was maybe not
  • 4:48 - 4:53
    aware of what BSL was and were not
    expecting a Deaf person to apply for the role.
  • 4:53 - 4:56
    The families they wanted someone to work
    with were hearing, so perhaps they assumed
  • 4:56 - 4:58
    it would be better to have a hearing person
    in post. I don’t know that for sure though.
  • 4:58 - 5:01
    So you were finally successful on your
    third attempt. What did your work as a
  • 5:01 - 5:04
    BSL advocate involved?
  • 5:04 - 5:09
    Well really, I just helped the parents.
    I taught them sign language.
  • 5:09 - 5:13
    I supported nursery and primary
    school and even secondary
  • 5:13 - 5:14
    school too with sign language.
  • 5:14 - 5:16
    So you must have had to travel
    around a lot for your job?
  • 5:16 - 5:18
    Yes, I travelled all over the place.
    I had a lot of work to do.
  • 5:18 - 5:20
    And did you teach sign language
    as part of your role?
  • 5:20 - 5:21
    I did, yes.
  • 5:21 - 5:24
    Did you cover Deaf identity,
    culture and so on as well?
  • 5:24 - 5:27
    Yes, I did, but my role was really more
    focused around supporting the Deaf young person.
  • 5:27 - 5:30
    For example, I would read a book with
    them and explain the meaning of particular
  • 5:30 - 5:37
    words to try and increase their sign
    vocabulary. I would do the same for numbers.
  • 5:38 - 5:42
    Sounds like a great job. Okay, let’s move
    on a little to our connection.
  • 5:42 - 5:45
    When I was little, you taught me
    BSL didn’t you Margaret?
  • 5:45 - 5:45
    I did.
  • 5:46 - 5:49
    I remember Margaret working with me.
    She was my role model.
  • 5:49 - 5:55
    She gave me the most wonderful gift,
    the gift of British Sign Language.
  • 5:55 - 5:58
    I feel incredibly lucky to have had the
    opportunity to learn BSL from Margaret.
  • 5:58 - 6:01
    Without her, I don’t know what my life
    would be like now. I don’t think I would
  • 6:01 - 6:03
    be where I am now. It didn’t just stop
    with me though. I have been able to share
  • 6:03 - 6:06
    this beautiful language with my parents too.
    This makes our family connections so much easier.
  • 6:06 - 6:10
    So Margaret, you really are my role model.
    When I was little, you used to come out
  • 6:10 - 6:14
    to my nursery. I still have some photos from
    that time which I’d love to share with our viewers:
  • 6:23 - 6:28
    How sweet! Would you like to share any
    memories of that time, Margaret?
  • 6:28 - 6:31
    I don’t really remember anything much
    because I was so very young, but maybe you can.
  • 6:31 - 6:35
    Yes, I can remember very clearly.
    I remember I started working with you
  • 6:35 - 6:41
    when you were about 1 ½. When I first
    arrived, you ran off and hid under the table.
  • 6:41 - 6:45
    You did this every single time I visited,
    for weeks, and I visited twice a week.
  • 6:45 - 6:51
    Your mum would try to encourage you to
    come out and finally you did, and we
  • 6:51 - 6:53
    started to form a bond.
    After that, things got better.
  • 6:54 - 6:57
    I think I was probably just really thrown
    because you were using sign language and
  • 6:57 - 6:59
    although my parents signed a little,
    it was the first time I had met anybody
  • 6:59 - 7:03
    who was fluent in BSL. I just panicked.
    Once I realised you were okay, things improved,
  • 7:03 - 7:05
    and I learned so much from you.
  • 7:05 - 7:11
    I think because you had never seen a
    Deaf person before it was a bit of a shock.
  • 7:11 - 7:17
    I remember when you were about three,
    you asked me why I was different.
  • 7:17 - 7:21
    I remember having to explain to you that
    you and I were the same, that we were both
  • 7:21 - 7:25
    Deaf and that we were different from
    your parents. I could see this really puzzled you.
  • 7:25 - 7:28
    I explained that your mum and dad
    were learning to sign so they could help
  • 7:28 - 7:30
    help you and that’s what happened
    now you’re all grown up.
  • 7:30 - 7:33
    I was young, about four I think, when
    I realised I was different from my parents.
  • 7:33 - 7:36
    3 ½, four, yes, about that age.
    Very young. I remember that conversation.
  • 7:37 - 7:40
    You used to come to my house twice a
    week to work with me, teach me
  • 7:40 - 7:42
    sign language and so on.
  • 7:42 - 7:47
    That’s right, yes. Your Teacher of the Deaf
    sed to give me things for you to work on
  • 7:47 - 7:51
    but you were never interested.
    You were very focused on BSL and
  • 7:51 - 7:55
    just wanted to sign with me.
    You were hungry to learn more signs.
  • 7:55 - 7:59
    You were not interested in worksheets!
  • 8:00 - 8:04
    I’m still like that now. I love nothing more
    than a long conversation in BSL!
  • 8:05 - 8:10
    Like I said, I don’t really remember much
    rom that time, but I do remember a few things.
  • 8:10 - 8:13
    I remember one day you came to my house,
    and we went out into the garden.
  • 8:13 - 8:16
    You taught me the signs for things in
    the garden like STONE and LEAF and so on,
  • 8:16 - 8:17
    do you remember that?
  • 8:17 - 8:20
    I do, yes! It was a lovely sunny day.
    We usually stayed in the house
  • 8:20 - 8:23
    but I wanted to go outside so I asked your
    mum if it was okay and she was really happy
  • 8:23 - 8:25
    for us to go out into the garden.
    You were so curious. You wanted to know
  • 8:25 - 8:29
    everything about everything! What is this?
    What is that? What is inside it? Why?
  • 8:29 - 8:30
    So many questions!
  • 8:30 - 8:34
    Why? Why? Why? Right!
    My favourite question. Wow.
  • 8:34 - 8:36
    Absolutely. You always would ask why.
  • 8:36 - 8:39
    So, you used to come to our house
    twice a week and you also used to visit
  • 8:39 - 8:41
    my nursery setting, I think.
  • 8:41 - 8:46
    Let me think. Yes, right, I did go to your
    nursery. I’ll never forget staff at your nursery
  • 8:46 - 8:57
    saying once that they had never seen you cry,
    but your home was only just across the
  • 8:57 - 8:59
    road and you knew it was there so
    you felt safe. They never thought of that.
  • 8:59 - 9:02
    Yes, it was really close by.
  • 9:02 - 9:02
    Honestly!
  • 9:02 - 9:07
    Yes, I was the model child. You came
    to my nursery to help me to be more included.
  • 9:07 - 9:09
    I remember you doing group work.
  • 9:09 - 9:13
    Yes. We did that sometimes. Sometimes
    the other children did not want to.
  • 9:13 - 9:16
    One or two of the kids were keen to
    learn sign language but it was quite difficult.
  • 9:16 - 9:19
    The staff were very good.
    I have to say they were lovely.
  • 9:19 - 9:22
    Lovely. You came with me
    to primary school too.
  • 9:22 - 9:26
    Yes, I did. I remember when you first
    started at one primary school,
  • 9:26 - 9:30
    they asked me to come in and work
    with the class to help you settle,
  • 9:30 - 9:34
    alongside the teacher. I used to come in
    twice a week. After a while you started
  • 9:34 - 9:39
    saying to me that I was using the wrong
    signs for things, because your teacher
  • 9:39 - 9:41
    had told you something different.
    I asked you to please just follow what I told
  • 9:41 - 9:44
    you as I was Deaf like you and had
    used sign language my whole life.
  • 9:44 - 9:46
    Your teacher had not. At that time there
    was very little BSL awareness the teacher
  • 9:46 - 9:48
    thought they could just make it up
    and it would be fine.
  • 9:48 - 9:49
    There was a lot of that kind of attitude.
  • 9:49 - 9:53
    You and I have had a relationship since
    I was about one and a half.
  • 9:53 - 9:57
    You taught me sign language that
    whole time. I remember starting
  • 9:57 - 10:02
    primary at the age of about six and
    some of the kids telling me that my signs
  • 10:02 - 10:07
    were wrong. I remember asking you
    about it and you told me to ignore them.
  • 10:07 - 10:10
    There was nothing wrong with the
    way we signed and if they signed things
  • 10:10 - 10:12
    differently then perhaps they were
    from a different region or a different country.
  • 10:12 - 10:14
    You explained that things are signed
    differently in different places and that’s fine.
  • 10:14 - 10:16
    I was surprised to learn that,
    but of course it’s true. I remember you
  • 10:16 - 10:16
    explaining that to me.
  • 10:16 - 10:19
    Yes. Different signs in different regions,
    and that’s something parents may not
  • 10:19 - 10:22
    have been aware of. But we had that
    bond, and I know that your mum signed
  • 10:22 - 10:23
    as well and that was important.
  • 10:23 - 10:28
    Definitely! It has been so lovely to talk
    to you Margaret. I have one final question, if I may.
  • 10:28 - 10:31
    Do you have any tips or advice for any
    Deaf young people out there who might
  • 10:31 - 10:32
    be watching?
  • 10:32 - 10:36
    I would say to any Deaf young person,
    don’t let anyone tell you what you can or
  • 10:36 - 10:40
    can’t do. If you want to do something,
    go for it. If you feel passionately about BSL,
  • 10:40 - 10:42
    we need more Deaf people to work
    as assistants for Deaf children,
  • 10:42 - 10:44
    to encourage them to keep signing forever.
  • 10:44 - 10:46
    If the opportunity is out there, grab it!
  • 10:46 - 10:46
    Absolutely.
  • 10:46 - 10:52
    Brilliant! Thank you so much for talking
    to me. I’ve really enjoyed our chat. Goodbye.
  • 10:52 - 10:53
    Goodbye.
Title:
Wee BSL Blethers - Erin and Margaret
Video Language:
Sign Languages
Duration:
11:12
British Deaf Association edited English subtitles for Wee BSL Blethers - Erin and Margaret Feb 6, 2025, 11:28 AM
British Deaf Association edited English subtitles for Wee BSL Blethers - Erin and Margaret Feb 6, 2025, 11:24 AM
British Deaf Association edited English subtitles for Wee BSL Blethers - Erin and Margaret Feb 6, 2025, 11:20 AM
British Deaf Association edited English subtitles for Wee BSL Blethers - Erin and Margaret Feb 6, 2025, 11:09 AM
British Deaf Association edited English subtitles for Wee BSL Blethers - Erin and Margaret Feb 6, 2025, 11:00 AM
British Deaf Association edited English subtitles for Wee BSL Blethers - Erin and Margaret Feb 6, 2025, 10:58 AM
British Deaf Association edited English subtitles for Wee BSL Blethers - Erin and Margaret Feb 6, 2025, 10:57 AM
British Deaf Association edited English subtitles for Wee BSL Blethers - Erin and Margaret Feb 6, 2025, 10:55 AM
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