The Daily Show's secret to creativity

Group brainstorming is usually where creativity goes to die. But at The Daily Show with Trevor Noah, they have it down to a science. Adam grant takes us behind the scenes in the writers' room to show how creative collaboration really works, and reveals what inspires people to share their best -- and worst -- ideas. (Audio only)

Trevor Noah: Got a call from my manager,
and I was in the back of a taxi,

and he said, "Hey, how would you like
to host The Daily Show?"

Adam Grant: That's Trevor Noah.

TN: My mind was blown.

And I still don't think I understood
the gravity of the entire show.

And I remember I got out of the taxi
and my knees were weak,

and I probably would have fainted
if I was just walking.

I'm glad I was sitting down
when I got the news.

And yeah, and that's when it happened.

AG: When Trevor got that call,
his worklife changed.

He'd spent a lot of his career
working solo as a stand-up comedian

in clubs and theaters,
mostly in South Africa.

But now he works with a full
creative team in New York City.

Four days a week, they make a show
that millions of people watch,

and I want to know how they pull that off,

because usually, big groups
are where creativity goes to die.

(Music)

I'm Adam Grant, and this is WorkLife,
my podcast with TED.

I'm an organizational psychologist.

I study how to make work not suck.

In this show, I'm inviting myself in
to some truly unusual places

where they've mastered something
I wish everyone knew about work.

Today, creativity under the gun,

and how you can be more creative
in whatever you do.

Thanks to Warby Parker
for sponsoring this episode.

(Music)

When you have a creative challenge,

the natural starting point is to bring
a group of people together to brainstorm.

Workplaces have relied
on brainstorming for years.

There's just one small problem:

it doesn't work.

We actually have decades of evidence
that brainstorming backfires.

Groups produce fewer ideas and worse ideas

than the same people working alone.

(Music)

So what is it about group brainstorming
that stifles creativity?

First, people silence themselves
because they're afraid of looking stupid.

Second, some people silence others
by dominating the conversation.

And third, everyone just supports
the boss's favorite idea.

But The Daily Show
has overcome these problems.

They've cracked the code
of group creativity,

and I'm going in to find out how.

(Music)

It's 9am on a Tuesday.

(Overlapping voices)

Walking in, it's clear that this show
is a massive machine.

On any given day, over a hundred
staff and crew members are working on it.

But I want to focus
on one part of that machine:

the writers' room.

It's where a creative team
of writers, producers,

and on-camera talent come together.

Being in a writers' room is sort of
an organizational psychologist's dream,

at least it's one of mine,

and The Daily Show is giving me
backstage access

to see how they start the day
with a blank page

and end up with 22 minutes
of great comedy.

(Overlapping voices)

The room is packed with about 30 people.

Some of them are sitting on couches,

lots of them are sitting on the floor,

and some of them even have their dogs.

They're starting to kick around ideas
before Trevor arrives.

(Overlapping voices)

It's November, and the big news of the day

is Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore.

There are a few weeks left
before the special election

to replace Jeff Sessions.

We all know how that played out,

but at the time, it was great material.

They start off by playing clips
from yesterday's news, and then they riff.

News Clip: ... people are saying
Roy Moore was banned from the mall.

(Laughter)

Allison MacDonald, supervising producer:
The fact that the mall

has higher standards
than the US Senate ...

News clip: Overnight,
Moore denied the accusations.

(Clip continues) Roy Moore: I never did
what she said I did.

I don't even know the woman.
I don't know anything about her.

I don't even know
where the restaurant is or was.

Max Brown, supervising producer:
He's like, "I deny it.

It's absolutely false.

I have no idea what it is about."

But with every accuser, it's like,
"He was here every night."

We have a picture of him
on the wall that he signed.

Josh Johnson, writer: Sooner or later
with accusers, he'll be like,

"I'm not even from Alabama.
Never been here before."

(Laughter)

Steve Bodow, executive producer:
I am not Roy Moore.

AG: The room is starting to feel
like a really crowded family dinner.

Everyone is jumping into the conversation.

Zhubin Parang, head writer:
I wonder if his favorite booth

has his name carved into it,
like, "Roy Moore's seat," yeah.

"I never got pancakes and waffles there,"
and restaurant is like,

"That is that's what we call
the Roy Moore Special."

Jimmy Don, senior producer: His picture's
on the wall for the pancake challenge.

AG: The first thing I noticed

is that the room
is full of creative bursts.

Believe it or not, there's a name for that
in the psychology of creativity:

it's called burstiness.

(Music)

Burstiness is like
the best moments in improv jazz.

Someone plays a note,
someone else jumps in with a harmony,

and pretty soon, you have
a collective sound that no one planned.

Most groups never get to that point,

but you know burstiness when you see it.

At The Daily Show, the room just literally
sounds like it's bursting with ideas.

You can hear it in the Roy Moore joke.

ZP: I think ... Oh, here we go.
What's up, man?

AG: Trevor Noah just walked in the room.

ZP: We're just watching
and laughing at Roy Moore,

going to the mall,
hanging around until ...

TN: Getting banned from the mall?

TN: That's a pretty extreme
detail that they left out.

ZP: While you're the DA.

TN: Even the mall cop
is like, "Look, Mr. DA, I know."

MB: It's really hard
to get banned by the mall.

Like, if you are a bad teenager,
you don't get banned.

Dan McCoy, writer: I like the way
he was making excuses

now about these bans.
"No, I was stealing lipstick."

(Laughter)

AG: So right there, my ears perk up.

The burstiness is back,
even with Trevor in the room.

Everyone's throwing out
half-baked ideas to their boss.

How comfortable are you
just brainstorming on the fly

in front of the most powerful
person in your workplace?

If you have a boss
who is constantly judging you,

that would be a nightmare.

You'd be afraid of getting
it wrong or looking dumb.

But Trevor sets an inviting tone.

There's no frenzy, no panic.

He's guiding the group.

Although the clock is ticking,
he doesn't sound stressed.

TN: Let's just go down
that list. Let's breeze through it.

AG: The meeting wraps up at 10:30.

They have an outline for the show.

Now it's time to divide and conquer.

The writers only have about two hours
before their first drafts are due.

ZP: So, I need a couple of writers
to just a round of the Asia wrap

and two writers who want
to do the Don-Jr-is-an-idiot thing.

AG: They go off in pairs to write.

I want to dig in further to find out
how they create the ideal conditions

for burstiness,

so I tracked down
the head writer, Zhubin Parang,

and senior writer Daniel Radosh.

AG: Psychologists talk about
this pattern they call burstiness,

which is, how rapidly
we're taking turns in conversation

and interrupting each other.

There were moments
when somebody had a pretty good joke

and then like four people built on it.

Daniel Radosh: The main thing
is to get the jokes out of the material

and that's where
the burstiness comes from.

AG: I love how you adopted
the language of burstiness

like that's a normal thing
people would say.

DR: We're improv-focused.

Whatever you say, that's the new term.

AG: But let's be clear: not everyone
was immediately on board.

Here are two of the newer writers,
Kat Radley and Colleen Werthmann.

Colleen Werthmann: Burstiness?

Kat Radley: You come up with that?
AG: No, I'm just borrowing it.

I first learned about burstiness
from a colleague.

Anita Williams Woolley:
I'm Anita Williams Woolley.

I'm an associate professor
at Carnegie Mellon University.

Burstiness is when everybody
is speaking and responding to each other

in a short amount of time

instead of having it drawn out
over a long period of time.

AG: Anita sees burstiness
in all kinds of groups,

not just at work.

AWW: I have four older brothers
and three kids who are all boys,

and I joke how this explains my whole life

because pretty much
any dinnertime conversation,

you can hear me say,
"Wait a minute, let me finish."

There's a lot of burstiness
in the conversation

and a lot of interrupting,

which seems not to bother them at all
but sometimes can drive me crazy.

AG: Interruptions aren't always rude.

When you're in a crunch,
you want everyone to pitch in fast.

Anita studied software teams working
in different places around the globe.

She found that the most innovative
and productive teams were bursty.

AWW: The more effective teams

figured out when their team members
were likely to be working

and they would get online
at a similar time

and start exchanging messages,
sending each other code,

whereas other teams might have
communicated just as much

and engaged in just as much activity

but kind of more dictated
by their own personal schedule,

and those teams were not as effective.

AG: Burstiness is a sign
that you're not stuck

in one of those dysfunctional
brainstorming sessions.

It's when a group
reaches its creative peak

because everyone is participating freely
and contributing ideas.

AWW: I don't think that burstiness
is unique to creative fields.

However, I think probably creative fields
do really benefit from burstiness.

The people who are
in the conversation are energized

because when you speak, somebody's
going to respond to you right away,

you know they're listening
and then you're listening to them,

and so it's much easier
to exchange ideas and maybe build ideas.

AG: But of course,
burstiness looks different

when your raw materials
aren't bits of code

but bits of comedy.

In the writers' room, the burstiness
doesn't just happen by accident.

I asked Trevor Noah about it.

TN: So, when I'm in a writers' room,

there are two things
that are happening in my head.

One, I'm looking at what we're going
to be doing on the show that day,

and two, I'm thinking
about the room as a comedy room

and how much laughter
it is imbued with in that moment.

And I know it's extremely superstitious

and no one can ever prove it
or not disprove it,

but I believe that laughter is absorbed

just like secondhand cigarette smoke

into the very fabric
of who we are as human beings.

AG: Watching you in the room this morning,
I was intrigued by a few things.

One, I expected a big change
when you walked in,

and there wasn't a lot that was different,

which is a sign to me that you've made it
incredibly psychologically safe.

AG: People are not afraid of you.

TN: Oh, in the room. Oh, that's funny.

AG: They're not freaked out
that you walked in,

and they're still pitching
some pretty half-baked jokes.

That's called psychological safety.

It's where you can take risks
without feeling afraid.

Without that sense of safety,
creative bursts don't happen.

People censor themselves.

TN: Well, I always believed
that in any relationship

where there is someone who is in charge,
whether it's in a family, with a parent,

or whether it's a teacher,
whether it's a boss in a work environment,

really what brings out the best in people
in my opinion is a mutual respect.

I trust that my writers are trying
to help me make the best show,

and they trust that I want
to make the funniest show.

It's taken a long time, but now,
when I when I walk into a meeting,

I'm walking into
a continuing conversation.

AG: Building psychological
safety takes time.

It's something you create
a little every day,

and you can see it in small moments.

There was one that caught my eye
in the writers' room.

TN: I'm saying that joke you pitched,
it was so good, like, even in the room.

ZP: That was great, that went well.

AG: Did you catch that?

Trevor just said that his head writer
Zhubin pitched a good joke.

ZP: I'm a funny guy. I write good jokes.

AG: The whole idea of burstiness
is that when the group has momentum,

you want it to keep going.

So I wonder why Trevor interrupted it.

AG: Is that a conscious
effort on your part

to praise somebody in front of the group?

Or does that happen spontaneously?

TN: I think that's a subconscious thing,

but I've always believed
in crediting people where credit is due.

Especially when you're working
in an environment

where all of the praise is bound
to be aimed towards myself.

So if something's amazing on the show,
Trevor gets the credit.

If something's horrible on the show,

Trevor gets the credit
as well, or the blame.

And, so I think it just moves people
forward as human beings

to know that we are acknowledged
in whatever we're doing.

AG: When you're in a creative
group that's bursting,

it's easy to lose track of who said what

and whether your input even matters.

Here's Daniel.

DR: It's such a blender,
like, all this material gets put in

and you end up with this kind of
comedy smoothie at the end

that tastes delicious,
but you might not be able to say,

"Oh, that's my strawberry
that was in there."

We do kind of all understand
that most jokes don't make it to air,

especially not as they were
originally conceived.

TN: It may not be the joke that you made
that ends up going on TV,

but it could be the joke
that makes you feel a certain way

that gets you to the joke
that you put on TV,

and so there was a line
I thought of yesterday

with the Roy Moore accusations,

and Sean Hannity came out to defend him.

And I said, "Sean Hannity has a season
ticket to the wrong side of history."

And it just made me giggle.
Like, you know?

And then I was just like,
"Yeah, I'm going to say that."

And so if your day is punctuated with joy,

that joy will manifest itself
in the final product that is the show.

AG: We'll be back with more
from Trevor and The Daily Show

after the break.

This is going to be
a different kind of ad.

In the spirit of exploring
creative ideas at work,

we're going to take you inside
Warby Parker, our sponsor.

(Music)

AG: Warby Parker's Neil Blumenthal
and Dave Gilboa have a lot in common.

Neil Blumenthal: You might not
be able to tell us apart by our voices,

... but I'm Neil.
Dave Gilboa: And I'm Dave.

AG: That didn't help at all.
But I appreciate your trying.

(Laughter)

AG: Yep, they sound alike,
they went to the same school,

they have the same friends,

and they also have the same job.

Neil and Dave are the co-CEOs
of Warby Parker,

a billion-dollar company
that's made buying eyeglasses cool again.

I've always been fascinated
with dynamic duos like Neil and Dave.

Not only do they run the company together,

but their collaborative leadership
spreads throughout the culture.

The ability to work across teams,

from product to customer
service to retail,

has been key to Warby Parker's success.

I sat down with them
at headquarters in New York

to talk about what it's like
being the boss together.

(Music)

AG: The obvious metaphor
for a co-CEO relationship

is a married couple,

but you both talk about it
a little bit more in terms of parenting.

NB: You know, I think that's right.

With parenting,
you need a philosophy, right?

You need a vision for what you want
your children to grow up to be.

DG: It also makes the highs higher,
being able to celebrate wins,

and it makes the lows higher,

in being able to blunt some
of the frustrating parts that come up.

NB: We also at times
will play different roles,

just like in a negotiation,
there might be good cop, bad cop.

Having a two-year-old
and six-year-old, I know that.

Rachel and I often do that as well.

AG: What's it like to lead
a company with an old friend?

NB: You know, often I'm talking
to other founders and CEOs,

and they'll often speak
to a loneliness of the role,

and I've never felt that way,

and one of the best things
about having a partner

is that you can just look at each other
and laugh and crack up.

Some of the situations
are really difficult.

Others are just absurd,

and it just makes it, I think,
a lot more enjoyable

to have somebody alongside.

AG: What are the top three
pieces of advice that you would give

to somebody who is going to lead
with a fellow leader?

NB: Build trust,

communicate frequently,
which often leads to trust,

and work with somebody
that you enjoy spending time with.

AG: How many hours do you think
you guys have spent together

in your lifetimes?

DG: Maybe 15,000 hours?

And what do they say,
you need 10,000 hours

to become an expert at something?

NB: We're experts in each other.

(Laughter)

NB: When do I get a ring?

(Laughter)

(Music)

AG: That was Neil Blumenthal
and Dave Gilboa,

co-CEOs and cofounders of Warby Parker.

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(Music)

AG: If you've ever brainstormed,

you know you're supposed
to put criticism on hold.

Let every thought fly.

There's no such thing as a bad idea.

But actually, that's a bad idea.

It turns out that people are more creative

in groups where criticism is welcomed.

It raises the bar.

Psychological safety doesn't mean
that everything is all warm and fuzzy.

You still need to have standards.

At The Daily Show, the writers don't
let each other get away with bad jokes.

DR: You don't shit on someone
for making a bad joke.

I mean, you do, but, you know ...

AG: What does that look like?

ZP: I think light ribbing.

Although usually the person
who made the joke

is the first to joke
about how bad that joke went.

AG: You create safety by helping people
feel comfortable laughing at themselves.

And some new experiments
have shown us how to do that.

It all starts with a paperclip.

(Music)

Researchers asked, "How many new uses
can you come up with for this paperclip"?

People went off to brainstorm.

Group one generated pretty typical ideas:

a ring, a bracelet, and a necklace.

But group two came up
with totally unexpected uses,

like a wound suture,
artwork and a screwdriver.

What made the difference?

In the first group, everyone
just launched into brainstorming,

but in the second group,

people were randomly assigned
to share an embarrassing story

before the brainstorm.

And that simple act
lowered their inhibitions.

This is something they know
from experience at The Daily Show.

ZP: I once misspoke about how,
in order to keep flexible,

we all need to keep our hips on a swivel.

And I meant we've got to keep
our heads on a swivel,

but I said that two years ago,

and in the subsequent two years,
I've kept saying "hips on a swivel"

because everybody says that's not right.

DR: I'm sorry, is "heads
on a swivel" better?

ZP: "Heads on a swivel"
is the actual term.

AG: Nothing should ever be on a swivel.
DR: The Exorcist.

ZP: Regardless, every mistake you make
in a comedy writers' room

usually becomes a bit,

and I think that only helps foster
the creativity about the place.

Like if we'll take the bad things
you said and we'll make fun of them,

that makes everyone a bit more
lighthearted about speaking up.

AG: So I've been having fun
talking to the writers

about safety and burstiness,

but I can't stop thinking about the clock.

We're about three hours away from taping.

Even though I'm not working on the show,

I'm starting to feel a little stressed
about the deadline.

I asked Kat and Colleen
if they are freaking out.

AG: Does it ever hit you how crazy that is

that you started at 9am and you're
going to have a show by the evening?

KR: It is crazy.

Before I had this job, I used to think
"How do they do it every day,"

but now you're like, "I get it."

There's enough people
who are very good at what they do

that they make it happen.

But it is. It's very fast-paced ...

CW: But this is also like a factory
that's been here for a really long time.

AG: A factory?

CW: It's an extremely well-oiled machine.

KR: We also make shoes here.

(Laughter)

CW: We all have an incredibly
precise contribution to make.

You know how long you have to do it.
You know what the quality standards are.

Do you know what I'm saying?

AG: Yeah. No one seems stressed at all.
People are just kind of chill, smiling.

Is that how it always is?

KR: I think it depends on the day,

but for the most part I feel like
everyone's usually pretty chill,

because you never feel like,

"Oh, this is coming down to me."

You always know that there's
going to be someone else to help you out.

CW: Yeah, feeling, like, loose,
and a sense of possibility

is always just a better place
to operate from creatively, I think.

And so even if you get that little twinkle
of anxiety or whatever,

inside of yourself,
it just works better to go like,

"You know what?
I'm an ever-rushing river."

It's corny, but it works
for me, so I do that.

AG: The relaxed atmosphere
frees them up for creative bursts.

They also have the security of knowing

that their days are meticulously
planned and organized.

In fact, there's structure everywhere,

because what The Daily Show has done,
consciously or not,

is build task bubbles into each day.

(Music)

Task bubbles.

So think of a time
when you've walked into a meeting

and tried to jump into the discussion,

but you couldn't.

It felt kind of like
there was a force field

that you just bounced off of.

That's a task bubble,

where people are totally
absorbed in a common project.

It keeps the group focused.

That way, everyone can build
on each other's ideas and bursts.

Task bubbles give the writers
and producers the space they need

to hone and refine their ideas.

Without these protected hours
for collaboration,

they'd all be working
at different times, out of sync.

ZP: Once the writers
are being sent off to write,

they have, usually,
two uninterrupted hours

to think through what the structure
of it's going to be

with respect to the guidelines
we've laid out, to add their jokes.

The only time I interrupt is when
there's been a significant change

Trevor has called for

or news is broken that requires
an immediate edit.

AG: Too much structure
can inhibit creativity,

but so can too little structure.

If you agree together on some rules
for when and how to work,

you can focus all your energy
on doing the work.

Here are Jen Flanz and Steve Bodow,
the executive producers.

Jen Flanz: There is a myth
that when you're working at a comedy show

that's all fun all the time

and we are bouncing
a ping pong ball off the wall.

It's fun, but it's run
like a newsroom, a little bit.

Steve Bodow: Planning and structure:
it sounds like it's rigid,

but it's actually what gives you
the freedom to find

the creative discoveries
that will make the thing sing.

AG: Because of course, creativity
doesn't really start with a blank page.

It begins with some raw material.

In The Daily Show's case,

it's the news clips they play
in the morning meeting.

Segment producers have already
reviewed hours of footage

and selected the most promising clips.

Once everyone is agreed on the headlines,

the writers know the first act
will be seven to 12 minutes long,

the second should be
four to seven minutes,

and they know exactly
how much time they have to write.

I drag Dan Amira and David Kibukka
out of their task bubble.

They're two writers working
to turn the morning riffs

into a polished segment.

David Kibukka: So sometimes
you have it in your head

that everybody's saying
the greatest jokes all the time.

And then when you realize that, no --

Dan Amira: Most of the jokes
are just pure garbage.

DK: Then you're like,
"Let me add to this garbage as well,

and hopefully by taping time,
we would have removed it

and replaced it with something wonderful.

Cause the first draft
is not meant to be the last draft.

DA: That's why
they call it the first draft.

DK: Yeah, that was a big part
of the naming process.

AG: OK, structure and safety
help with burstiness.

But you also need the right mix
of people in the room.

And judging creative talent is hard.

Take one of my favorite studies.

Hollywood producers
liked screenplays better

when the writers presented themselves

as hip artists or savvy marketers.

Writers who wore funky glasses
actually seemed to get an advantage.

The Daily Show doesn't want to be swayed
by those kinds of stereotypes.

They want to pick
the most creative writers,

and executive producers Jen and Steve
have a process for doing that.

JF: That's his baby.

SB: Yeah, that's something
I started probably in 2008.

AG: The inspiration came from something
powerful that happened in orchestras:

blind auditions.

DR: We blindfold them

and bring them to a secure location.

AG: Maybe not like that.

(Music)

For years, American symphonies
were dominated by men.

In the 1970s, a typical ensemble
had nine men for every woman.

Supposedly women weren't talented enough,

but by the 1990s, the gap closed
to less than two to one.

A huge reason that happened?

The industry introduced blind auditions,

where candidates played
from behind a curtain.

Once the evaluators couldn't see
whether a performer was a man or a woman,

their biases were neutralized.

They focused solely
on the quality of the music,

and as they should've known all along,

the women were
just as excellent as the men.

Well, The Daily Show
has a similar approach.

SB: It was an effort to hopefully
diversify in another important way

in the show -- not on camera
but in the writers' room.

We'd always get submissions from writers
with their names on them,

and oftentimes, they may be
someone you knew, or a friend of a friend.

And to take that ingredient
out of it, we said,

"What if we just number them?"

AG: The first time they tried
blind submissions,

they hired three new writers,

and two were women.

Soon, they hired more people of color,
and writers from outside America, too.

So by the time Trevor joined the show,

he was working with
a diverse cast and crew,

and it was a priority for him
to continue diversifying from every angle.

But at first, he wasn't sure
how to bring in his own background

as a South African.

TN: I got so swept up in people
saying I was an outsider

that I forgot that most of us
are outsiders.

It just depends on where
we're looking in or out from.

AG: Diverse backgrounds and perspectives
help with creative bursts,

but we don't always realize it.

When everyone in a group is the same race,

they do worse at creative problem-solving
but they think they do better,

because they're more comfortable.

Diverse groups are more creative.

It's not just because they have access
to a wider range of ideas.

They feel more uncomfortable,

and that discomfort motivates them
to do extra preparation

and share new information.

TN: Trump as an African dictator
will always be one of my favorites,

because it was the first
moment on the show

where people thought
that I might have a chance.

AG: That segment Trevor's talking about?
It came out of his own experience.

TN: It was the first segment
where I realized that my uniqueness

could be used as a skill,
as opposed to a hindrance.

My president also didn't release
his tax returns,

hasn't released them
for the time he was president.

You know, my president
also has friendships with the Russians

that are shady at best.

In creating the show, I've now realized
that I can create within the show

a feeling of outsiderness,
which is generally a curiosity,

and that is a willingness to learn of
a world that you do not know much about,

and so I try and take
the show into that sphere.

(Ambient rap music)

AG: At this point in the day,
the writers and producers

have come back together for rehearsal.

Trevor's in his suit, the lights are up.

It looks just like I've seen it on TV.

And now, it's time
to try out all the jokes.

Trevor's delivering them
for the first time,

weaving in his own
impressions of Roy Moore.

TN: Let's kick off the show
with something light.

Alabama GOP Senate candidate
Roy Moore and his escalating sex scandal.

I'm especially curious
what pick-up lines Roy Moore used.

Are you tired? Because you
have been running away from me all day.

(Laughter)

That's a cute dress.

It will look even better outside
of this Tabloids Kids. Talbots Kids.

GK: Gap Kids. TN: Gap Kids?

Do you have a coupon?
Because my pants are 50 percent off.

(Laughter)

TN: Yesterday, a new accuser,
Beverly Young Nelson,

came forward to say
he sexually assaulted her

when she was a 16-year-old
working part-time at a local restaurant,

but he still says he is innocent.

"I don't know that restaurant,
or any other restaurant for that matter."

Actually, I never ingested food.
I don't even have a mouth.

(Mimics sound of speaking
with one's mouth closed)

(Laughter)

I feel like Moore
would still deny everything

even if there was a picture of him
at the restaurant

for winning a pancake-eating contest.

AG: At the end of every rehearsal,
the writers and producers swarm the set.

DK: Sometimes you'll have
a script where you're like,

"This script is magic. We don't
even need to -- why are we rehearsing?

Guys! Why are we rehearsing?"

And then you go to rehearsal,
and you're like,

"Does anyone have any other ideas?"

AG: And right now, it looks like
the creative team has some feedback.

ZP: I think we need to rewrite
some of these jokes.

Like the last one, "I feel like Moore,
even if there's a picture of him

at the restaurant winning
a pancake contest," it's not jokey.

SB: It needs a coat of rewrite on it,
but it's structurally fine.

ZP: A total rewrite?
TN: A coat of rewrites.

SB: We need to throw it out
and do something different.

AG: A rewrite? Seriously?

I thought it was pretty funny,

but the writers and producers
weren't satisfied.

They only have about an hour
to work on their final material,

and I'm left to wonder
what's going on behind closed doors.

CW: There's a satanic ritual ... No.

KR: There's a rewrite room,

which is pretty much just, like, Trevor,
head writer, producers.

CW: It's a very small room.

There's like eight or nine people
kind of crammed in there.

KR: Pants are optional.
CW: Healthy snacks.

KR: Going through
the whole script top to bottom

and just making sure everything's
as punchy and strong as it can be.

AG: Now it's out of their hands,
and the show goes live.

Here's Trevor on air, skewering Roy Moore.

TN: This guy, he's a legend.
He's a legend.

It's almost like his past self
is snitching on his future self.

(Laughter)

Because everything he denies,
he already pre-confessed.

Like, now I want him to be like,

"I definitely never
sat down at that restaurant."

"Really? This booth
has your name carved into it."

"Well, I never ate anything there."

"Your picture's on the wall,
for the pancake-eating contest."

Look, I don't know how this whole thing
is going to end up, but as of now,

both the Senate and House
Republican leadership

have called on Roy Moore to step down.

And it looks like he might be
expelled from the Senate,

if he wins the election.

Now I'm not saying
he's not a good fit for the Senate,

but 40 years ago, he wrote in a yearbook,
"I'm not good for the Senate."

(Laughter)

We'll be right back.

(Applause)

AG: Trevor and his creative team
do this day in and day out.

After watching them make a whole show,

it's clear that these people
know each other remarkably well.

They know who will have
a funny take on each topic,

which writers to pair together,

which producers have the best
expertise on each segment,

and who can straighten out a messy script.

Here's Steve.

SB: Because we have
so many shows to do, 160 a year,

there is not a hell of a lot of time

for taking retreats

or doing dry runs of things.

The way you do new process,

or the way that you get people
to work together,

is by making a show
and making another show

and then making another show.

AG: Groups aren't always
bad for creativity.

Maybe we've just
studied them the wrong way.

(Music)

We've rarely tracked groups
that have created safety and structure

over years of working together.

So no matter how good you get
at finding the right people,

if you want a group
to have creative bursts,

what matters most is the time you spend
getting to know each other.

It's a twist on the idea that 10,000 hours
of practice helps you become an expert.

Normally, we think that means
practicing a skill solo,

but if group creativity is your goal,

maybe you should be practicing together.

I think we should take groups
more seriously,

as an essential unit of creativity.

Instead of looking
for creative individuals,

what if we hired intact creative groups?

And instead of promoting
individual superstars,

what if we promoted entire teams?

Because the best creative groups
aren't just the sum of their parts,

they're the sum
of their shared experience.

(Music)

WorkLife is hosted by me, Adam Grant.

The show is produced by TED

with Transmitter Media
and Pineapple Street Media.

Our team includes
Colin Helms, Gretta Cohen,

Dan O'Donnell, Angela Cheng and Janet Lee.

This episode was produced
by Gabrielle Lewis.

Our show is mixed by David Herman
with help from Dan Dzula.

Original music by Hahnsdale Hsu.

Special thanks to our sponsors,

Warby Parker, Accenture,
Bonobos and JPMorgan Chase.

Next time on WorkLife,

we're going to Indiana
to meet the Butler Bulldogs,

a basketball team with a weird way
of building a culture

and beating the odds.

Man: I had those five guys in my office,

and, you know, my biggest,
most daunting task was,

how do you choose captain?

I brought them all in, and I just said,

"Hey, we've got 12 guys on the team,
but all five of you are captains.

So 40 percent of our team were captains.

You know, the one thing,
Adam, I didn't want do?

I didn't want to disempower one of them.

AG: That's next time on WorkLife.

Thanks for listening,
and if you like what you hear,

we would all really appreciate it
if you could rate and review the show.

It helps other people find us.

See you next week.

(Music)