DressedToExpress_Panel_2025_v5

Okay, hello and welcome
to Dressed to Express.

So, as this art form evolves,

I think it's important to include
conversations about the role of dancewear

and how to foster authenticity with it.

So my name is Monroe,

I'm 16 years old from Vancouver, B.C.

Jasmine, do you want
to introduce yourself?

Hi, my name is Jasmine.

I'm also 16 years old.

I'm from Mississauga, Ontario,

and I'm part of the Youth Assembly
member with Ballet Forward.

But before we jump in,

let's take a second
to introduce our panelists.

Jordana, let's start with you.

Hi everyone, my name
is Jordana Daumec.

I am a graduate of
the National Ballet School,

went on to have
a almost over 20-year career

at the National Ballet of Canada.

And now, I get the pleasure of
being a teacher back here at NBS again.

I'm so happy to be here.

I've done a lot of work over the years
in EDI for the ballet world

and I'm just happy to keep it going.

Awesome, amazing, thank you.

Aaliyah?

Hi, everyone, my name is Aaliyah Garcia,

and I'm a dance professional
here in Toronto.

My performing career
has been about 14 plus years,

and now I've transitioned to teach
and help mentor younger performers today.

I also am an entrepreneur,

so I own my own dancewear company
that provides inclusive dancewear

and it's called Exposed.

Nice, thank you.

Now, last but not least, Miss Renee.

Hi everyone, my name is Renee Raymond.

I'm a registered provisional psychologist

as well as a registered psychotherapist
here in Toronto.

I work with a lot of high performers.

I work with ballet dancers and athletes

from the varsity
to the national team level.

But I work with a lot of,
again, professional ballet dancers

and ballet students, coaches, teachers,

and really just working with them
to improve their performance on stage

as well as improve their mental health
whenever there are concerns.

Excellent, thank you all
so much for being here,

and I'm looking forward
to a great discussion,

so let's dive in.

For my first question,

it's directed towards Jordana and Aaliyah,

and it's: How has your personal journey
assisted in your passion and advocacy

for dancers' access
to inclusive dancewear?

I don't mind starting (laughing).

Yeah, so my journey started,

I think, similar to
a lot of young dancers.

I grew up dancing at a local dance studio.

I remember I used to compete a lot,
and I had a jazz solo.

There were a few specific moments

that really made me think about

or made me question

why there weren't options
available for me as a dancer.

In this solo that I had,

my mom, she actually would
paint my jazz shoes brown.

I remember every time I went on stage,

there would be like little beige dots

from where my toes would
kind of scrape the stage.

That memory always kind of sat with me.

And then as I moved on
into my professional career

and trained at university,

there were still no options
for people of colour.

It really made me think about
how can I acquire this product,

which eventually led to me
producing this product

for myself and dancers
that came after me.

That's kind of how it
impacted my journey here.

Beautiful, beautiful answer.

Thank you.

Jordana?

For myself, I grew up in New York,

so I was really blessed

that I got to be surrounded
by so many different art forms

and the different schools that I went to,

like I actually got to go to DTH,
Dance Theatre of Harlem,

the school for a little bit.

So I kind of grew up seeing

like tights not being able to show
who our own personal beings were

and the sort of the history
of what tights were supposed to be.

I remember getting into the company
and feeling like the same way for that.

And just when we would
have to pancake our shoes

when we were doing more
of the contemporary ballets

and just how much better
I felt about myself

and the way that I looked in the mirror
and like my line,

and just how everyone felt that way.

It was just across the board.

It didn't matter,
like we all just felt better,

like that.

And then not seeing
the options that were available.

Or, when there was an option,
it was just like the jazz tan,

that you were like
everyone had to wear jazz tan.

And obviously, that did not
look good on everyone.

It's just so beautiful

to see that we have more options
that are coming out

and having people who are...

Aaliyah, I'm pointing at you.

(laughing)

You're in here in my square,
so I'm pointing to you.

That people are out there,

that are making it possible
for everyone to step up on that stage.

What I saw growing up
as a kid with Dance Theatre of Harlem

and that just being a norm.

To now, it being a norm for everyone

and possible for everyone
at every company,

every type of art form.

This is just we're doing the history
of what tights were supposed to be.

Like it was meant to be
this colour of the person's skin,

but they couldn't have bare legs.

So now and where we got
ballet pink from like...

It's just really amazing
to just feel like a full circle.

What it felt like for me
like seeing DTH growing up.

And then now just seeing that being

what we should have
for everyone everywhere.

I liked how you both mentioned
dyeing your dancewear and stuff,

but at what point in your career
did you realize this is a problem

and we need an urgent change
in our dance system,

we have to have inclusive
dancewear for everyone,

not just one specific type of look?

When did you start realizing that?

Yeah, I think I started realizing it
pretty young to be honest,

because before I had that
experience with the jazz shoes.

I also had an experience with tights.

We all had those suntan tights
which were tan.

I remember when I saw
the first pair of brown tights,

I was so excited,

and I had asked my teacher
if I could wear them with my costume,

and because they didn't
have shoes at that time,

she actually said that I couldn't,
because it would cut off my lines.

From that instance,
and that was quite young.

I was maybe 11 around that time.

And then later the experience
with the jazz shoes,

and then later in university
when there were still no options,

I think that was kind of
the turning point for me

when I was like, "OK, I've been
through this much of my career

and there's still nothing for me.

That's not right, so how can I
be a part of that change

and help bring this into the community?"

Yeah similar, like just
going from the States,

and I think it was just
a different vibe down in New York.

especially it's like its own
little universe in New York. (laughing)

To then coming up here
and just seeing that it wasn't available.

I saw it but then I really don't think,

because it just
in the classical ballet company,

it just wasn't a topic
of conversation until COVID

when we actually had a minute to sit down

and actually have the conversations

that we never had had
the time to do before.

It's like when you're
focused just on ballet,

and what the steps are
and putting on the performance.

And then, when you
weren't able to do that,

you actually were able
to sit down and be humans

and talk to each other
and realize like how people are feeling,

what would make you feel better,

what would make you be able
to come out on stage even more.

So I think when that happened,

I think a lot of companies
started hearing those conversations

and the want and the need
to have tights for everyone.

So to see that big change.

It was interesting.

It was like something
that my whole career I noticed

but felt kind of helpless for,

and then once the conversations
were happening

and then to see these companies
like Capezio and Bloch and Freed,

like now being like,
"Oh, let us do something now,

and then having entrepreneurs
who are out there

that have the experience
of their own personal lives

to bring forward to show.

Yeah, so it's kind of like that,

I guess it was a feeling of helplessness
of not being able to do something

until those conversations started.

Thank you so much.

Monroe, would you like to
ask your next question?

Your first question.

Yeah, sure.

Renee, could you share a bit

about what challenges
do strict dress codes

and limited access to,
or even acceptance of inclusive dance

represent for dancers of colour,

and how can this affect
someone's mental health,

their confidence, and their motivation?

Yeah, that's a really great question.

Sometimes having these
really strict dress codes,

especially when you're a young dancer,

you're in childhood, adolescence,

and the norm is to wear
a very specific type of colour

or particular dancewear.

In that sense of time

where people are really
forming their identities,

developing their dancer identity

as well as their own personal identities.

Sometimes it's really hard
to feel that sense of belongingness,

because if you're, for instance,
colouring your own clothing,

it can send this message like

"Why am I the only one doing that?"

or "Why am I one of the few doing this
and other people don't have to do that?"

So, it can be different
for different people,

but sometimes it can really
give this sense of like,

this art form was created

and it wasn't created with you in mind,

or it hasn't adapted to accept you
even though you're here.

That might be something

that's really jarring
for some people to hear,

because they might think
"Oh it's just clothing,

everyone's wearing the same thing."

And for some people,

it may not be as much
of a challenge or an issue,

but for those who do care about
representing their skin tone,

representing their identity

and that brings them a sense
of confidence and good self-esteem,

it can really lead to these very subtle,

and in some cases where people feel
comfortable enough to vocalize it loud

sort of representations of like,

"OK, I don't know if I fit in here."

For mental health related impacts,

it can lead to a lot of anxiety

when it comes to putting on clothing

and finding that "you know what? this doesn't really match."

Or again, you get those
sort of generic colours

and it's like
"This doesn't really fit me."

That might take a dancer's attention
away from their performance.

It may have them be more self-conscious
about "Do I fit the part?"

"Do I look the way
that I'm supposed to,"

in quotes, "on stage?"

or "Do I fit this sort of stage presence?"

Especially when they are perhaps
the only dancers of colour on there

and within their company
or within their school,

this could really be heightened,

because it really just "others" them
from other people,

so can lead to anxiety,
lower self-esteem, lower confidence,

in some cases,
even feelings of depression

if they're really struggling to find ways
to connect to their identity

and connect their sense of self
to being a dancer.

It puts a lot of pressure on dancers

to try to reconcile all of
these different elements

when really, I think what they want to do
is get out there and dance

and represent themselves
in their truest forms .

Yeah, yeah, I really understand that.

You talked about that pressure
to have to ask for these things,

like ask authority if you need
different colour skin,

like skin types or shoes,

and I feel like I just really resonate,
like had that affecting your confidence,

so that was really...

Yeah, for sure,

because if you are now the person
that has to ask for these things,

it puts a lot of the burden
of the responsibility on the dancer.

And again in the space
where uniformity is really important

and conformity.

And then, again,
you're seeing yourself as being different,

it could put a lot of
undue stress on those

who might not be as
comfortable of asking for it,

as well as maybe begs the question,

"Well, why do I have to ask for this?"

"Why is this not something
that's provided to me

or at least as an option?"

Like I said, if some dancers
choose not to wear dance clothing

that is closer to their skin tones.

That's perfectly fine,

but those that feel more comfortable
and want to represent themselves,

I think the option is really important.

Yeah, definitely the option, yeah.

Jasmine, do you want to go next?

Yes, my next question is for Jordana,

and it's how does dancewear
as a student versus

as a professional differ

and how can both dress codes evolve
to allow for inclusive dancewear?

Yeah, so, big differences for sure!

With students,
you want to have clean lines,

so it's more about like

"I don't want to see a baggy shirt
in classical ballet on you

and like big baggy warm-ups
whereas as a company member."

I'd be like "Oh, my thighs are sore,

I need to wear the baggiest of clothing
to try to keep all the heat in right now."

But a student, you can't do that.

You have to keep the tights on
only in the leotard only,

so that the teacher
can actually look at you

and be able to give you
as much feedback and corrections,

which is funny though,

because you should still
do that in company life

but that's a whole another topic.
(laughing)

Yeah, so it's different.

I feel like it could maybe
feel more exposed

the fact that you
can't cover things up,

and you have to just be
in a leotard and tights;

whereas in a company class,

if you're feeling like
"Oh, something's hurting."

If I don't feel like
showing myself that day,

you can wear as many things.

It might vary from company to company,

but you can wear
what you need for the moment.

But then at the end of the day,
when we all go out on stage,

you have to wear whatever the costume is.

Even if you don't feel good
in that sometimes,

you still have to go out there and dance

and show that you're not
uncomfortable in it,

so that you're still presenting
yourself out there

and giving a good show.

That can be really really hard to do

if you're not feeling
comfortable in a costume.

And then just back stepping
like so in a company,

you can kind of help yourself
feel more comfortable in yourself,

but then in school, you can't.

School and stage are more connected

than you could say sometimes
for just a company class,

because you're very exposed on stage,

and as a student in a studio
without being able to cover up.

Yes.

since you've been in
sort of both positions

would you want to share which one
was like harder to expose yourself?

Because company,
you're doing basically a job.

This is your job,

but you're working towards that job.

- So which one was...
- Yeah!

I don't know, as a student,
you have so many aspirations,

and I was just focused on
that big picture.

Like get me out on that four season stage.
I want to show the world me.

And then in the company as you get older,

I think you start knowing more things.

I think this is just in adulthood,
you know more consequences,

more things of like,

"Oh when this is hurting
what's going to happen."

So I think being in the company
might have been harder than at the school,

where you have just
the world ahead of you

and it's your oyster.

Yeah, I think I would say that. (laughing)

Beautiful, thank you so much!

Now my next question is for Aaliyah.

Some major dance company,
some major dance work companies,

have started offering
a wide range of tones,

but there's still a very long way to go.

What do you think is stopping the industry
from fully embracing inclusivity?

I think it can be a number
of different reasons,

and I think it could vary
from company to company,

depending on the values of that company.

But I will say

I can't say that there's
a specific reason why.

I think that I just got
into developing dancewear

about three years ago.

Aside from just being
a consumer of products,

I didn't have experience within it.

I think that a company
that has maybe five or ten years,

the experience that I do,

and probably the budget as well.

I think that they have the resources
to be able to expand their inventory

if I was able to fully
conceptualize the product

from just a sketch or thought
to a tangible item.

I do think that there's
some responsibility

that needs to be held
by the companies.

So I don't think that
there's one specific reason,

or a specific hindrance
that's holding them back.

Since you are an entrepreneur
of a dancewear store?

Yes, a dancewear company, yeah.

dancewear company, perfect.

What do you think
your hardest obstacle is

when trying to achieve, making sure
there's inclusive dancewear for everyone,

not just one specific type?

What do you think is
your hardest obstacle?

For me,

I would say there's
two difficult obstacles for me.

Product development
does take quite a long time,

so when working with deeper shades,

it's more so about
getting the correct undertone

and stuff like that

and we're developing
for a wide range of complexions.

And then also budget.

Of course as an emerging business,

it does take a lot of resources

to go through
the product development process

and then to purchase that inventory,

so is a product-by-product basis
for me right now.

Those would be my two
biggest hurdles to get over.

(Jasmine) Awesome!

- Can I jump in on that?
- (Jasmine) Of course!

The thing I find so interesting too

is that I was watching this clip
from Lauren Anderson.

She's a principal down at Houston Ballet.

And the thing that she talked about

was that the gel lighting
and how it reflected off of tights

made a huge deal.

So she went up to the production company,
the lighting team

and was like, "I need
these undertones in my lights."

When I do my solo,

I need a different gel

than someone that has
a lighter skin tone does.

Even in terms of tights,

you could have the perfect shade,

but we just need the production
lighting team to know,

so that it reflects off
of the tights well.

It's even having that education
on the other side.

It goes hand in hand with the tights
looking good on stage under the lighting,

because I found too,

even in the studio, it looks one colour,
and then on stage was another colour.

and I would have to
dye my shoes a different colour,

to my tights depending on
what the gels were.

In the studio, it might look like,

"Oh, this doesn't match whatever at all,"

and then on stage it's like, "OK, cool."

But I find that very interesting.

It's definitely a tedious process
developing different shades.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's crazy.

Yeah, it's so crazy.

Seeing that has me think about
how it takes some work

to be able to offer this range.

It takes some work, it takes some time.

some attention to be able to say OK.

Yeah, I wouldn't have thought about that.

"Oh yeah, it's the lighting, too."

It's not just the dancewear.

It's the lighting and maybe other factors

that requires a whole production
to really be involved in this process,

and so being able to bring
some of those things up.

I think for those who are wanting
to make those change,

gives them some knowledge about
"OK, how can we help with this process?"

But it does highlight the fact

that there has to be some commitment
to looking at these different factors

and making these changes.

Like I said,

if the burden is on just the dancer
to try to match things

and really pick out
a beautiful piece to wear

that they feel really complements them,

and then the lighting is not
quite complementing them.

and like you said, you approached...

or that dancer had approached
the lighting team,

and was able to make that adjustment,

like what if that is not possible
in some different places?"

and then again, how does that
affect their confidence on the stage,

which ultimately, I think people
want to be able to bring out the best

in their performance
when they're up there.

So I see these things as wins.

It is a little bit of work,
but it's like for what benefit.

It's for a beautiful production,

for confident dancers,

for more people getting involved
in this beautiful art form.

Yeah, totally.

You!

Yeah, so adding on to that,

tradition as we know is very still,
like present in ballet and dance.

My question for Jordana
and Renee is with dancewear.

When do traditions become
barriers to the progress,

in terms of in the art form

and also in the development
of the dance artists?

So, yeah.

Maybe, Jordana, can you start
with sort of the art form aspect of it?

Yeah.

I think the thing about tradition

is that you can either use it

where it's like an educational tool

and then being able to incorporate
what you're feeling

and what's happening
in the culture right now,

so you can still keep
a foundation of a tradition,

but you need to have it be able
to grow with where you are.

So I think with companies
what you're going to see is

if the struggle is feeling like
the tradition will be lost

or how can we keep the tradition.

And I feel like when I look at the history
of what tights were supposed to be for me,

I'm like the tradition is that
it was supposed to be your skin

and we weren't allowed to
show our skin in the French courts

or just across Europe.

So the tradition was it was
supposed to be the skin tone.

Tights are cool.

We can keep tights on,

and we just make it everyone's skin tone.

For me, it's still hitting that tradition,

but it's with what it is now.

How our culture is now.

Not like however many hundreds
of years ago ballet started ,

and the only type of fabric
they had was satin

and they had to wear satin tights.

So like we have evolved with
what kind of fabrics we have,

so we can keep the tradition
moving forward

to what Aaliyah is doing now. (laughing)

Yeah, I think a lot about that.

I think of a corps de ballet having
this idea of oneness and unison.

I know they think a lot about uniformity.

They're like, "Oh that means
everyone's wearing pink tights."

but how do you think that can evolve?

Do you think it should
be pink tights?

Or do you think it's more about
the artistic integrity of uniformity?

Yeah, that's a really good question.

I think we did a ballet called Concerto,

and the tights were all this warmer colour,

so it actually looked good
on everyone all around.

It wasn't like the ballet pink

or like we know how
ballet pink gets washed out.

It's just like this blaring white
that reflects the light on stage.

And because it was a warmer undertone,

it did complement everybody.

I feel like there's options like that

where we replace the pink tight

with a skin tone that is warmer
that can fit everyone.

Not fit everyone,

but that is more complementary
to everyone.

Or, by having literally every
melanin shade on that stage

in their own tone will be the uniformity.

It's like I feel there's
two different ways.

Me, personally, I feel like
going the route

of having everyone's melanin
feel gorgeous on that stage

would look uniform

and have a nice look to it.

Or the other way
where maybe the concerto tight.

It was actually, the tight
was also called concerto,

like the colour of the tight.

So that everyone's in a warmer shade
that is more complementary,

and makes everyone feel good.

And then we still had to
pancake our shoes to it,

also like our shoes all had to
be dyed to this concerto tight colour,

because it didn't match
pink shoes, satin shoes.

So yeah, I would say for me,

I would love to see us
all just go in the direction

of everyone is in the shade
that looks good on them

and makes them feel good.

Yeah, I think that's that.

Thank you so much, yeah.

Renee, could you talk
a little bit about tradition

in terms of the approach
to dancers mental health,

from now to traditional ideas about it?

Yeah, and I think Jordana
highlighted some really important pieces

about what is the purpose of tradition.

Even for myself, I used
to practice Taekwondo,

So tradition, especially martial arts,
is through and through.

Tradition can be a really great
and wonderful thing.

I think when I think about
the effects of mental health,

it's what is the meaning

being associated with
changing certain traditions,

and how are we understanding
those traditions

and why we're making those changes.

And again, like as Jordana mentioned,

you can keep the integrity of
why certain traditions are there,

but the understanding that
society is adapted and changed,

and that our needs have changed.

Would you necessarily be
using some of the same products

that our parents were using?

No, because we found out that
certain products don't work well,

or they may not be healthy for us,

or they may need some tweaking
to be able to keep using those things

but maybe the foundation
of those things is still there,

and the value of those things
are still there.

When we're thinking about making changes
and how it affects mental health,

I think we have to be mindful

of helping to really dive down

and understand what it is
that makes sense to preserve

and overall, to keep
within the ballet world.

and then for the things that could
be changed or could be improved

because again, change
doesn't have to be bad,

is to be able to first
open up the the conversation

to those who these topics affect

which mostly it's the dancers.

It's the dancers
and understand their needs

Again, if they are to bring
their best onto the stage,

into their practices,
into the rooms that they fill.

they need to be able to feel their best.

And if it's something that is so big,

but also so simple as like,

"You know what, we can
make some tweaks to dancewear,

so that they feel confident
and they feel included."

Then that's, I think,
a tradition worth speaking.

Again, the overall message
is still to preserve the art form.

The art form can be preserved,

but it can also be improved
by dancers not feeling worried

or like I said, othered or judged

if they decide that they want
to speak out about these things.

So we need to be able to
have open conversations.

We need to be able to
engage in conversations

without that defensiveness,

because even with that too,

sometimes if someone's
automatic response is like,

"The art form shouldn't change,";

"Nothing should change in ballet."

We don't even have the opportunity
to have a conversation about,

"Hey, why is this an issue for someone?"

And the conversation shut down,

and who knows what might happen.

They may stop dancing.

It may affect their performance,

and have all these other effects
that are not necessary.

If the conversation is had
and then you can find out

how do we balance their needs
with tradition, with the art form,

and put on a wonderful production.

Yeah, definitely, yeah.

To sort of end off our questions,

I want to connect all these discussions
and open up the floor to ask,

what do you think the future of
the inclusive dancewear will look like

in five to ten years?

Anyone who wants to start can...

I think Aaliyah is going to
take that one.

(Renee) She's the one that's
going to do it. (laughing)

I know, I was like, I feel like I do have
a solid idea of what that might look like.

I hope that my company is one
to implement a lot of those changes

and kind of guide the direction
of where dancewear is going.

I think Jordana brought up a great point.

I think having that array of shades
is probably the future of dancewear,

not just for tights,

but for a lot of essentials that we need
for different dance styles as well.

I also think companies are going to
be more intentionally body inclusive,

a bit more body inclusive,

and maybe also incorporating,
developing dancewear

for more traditional folk styles.

I think that we might see that happening.

Yeah, for sure.

Adding on to that,

the more that's available
and the more of the want,

the more that companies
and schools, I think,

will start seeing that
this is just the way.

It'll be the new tradition
that's adding on to the old.

It's just layering and making it stronger

and more beautiful and inclusive.

Yeah, definitely.

I might have a slightly
different perspective.

I think that the desire
will continue to grow,

and I think that on the positive end,

those who are really involved in
costume design will become more creative

and understanding about how to incorporate
inclusive dancewear into productions.

I think the more it's introduced,

it will give more people
time to be comfortable with.

Like "OK, we can work with this."

This is great.

This offers new opportunities.

I am mindful, though,
that it also will evolve,

in my opinion, based on how
institutions also respond to this.

I think if institutions, ballet schools,
companies are supportive of these options,

it will allow for that ability
for dancewear to flourish

and for it to not be this scary thing
to incorporate.

But I do think that if those
conversations are shut down,

we see many different DEI-related things
being pushed back on

and really hard stances,

and things that were moving
in really progressive directions.

Just kind of being eliminated
in some cases.

I think that that could potentially
make this a contentious topic

when it does not need to be.

It can be something beautiful

and offer some refreshed life
into the ballet scene,

but it will really take, I think,
all levels to be able to support this.

So students like yourselves,

the dancewear companies
that are developing this range of product,

but also institutions to be like,
"Yes, we value this."

We want to see this for it
to really be able to be a main,

a staying power--

have the staying power,
sorry, and flourish.

Yeah, I think, too,

seeing how the school
is doing that so well here.

And I hope even our shoe room,

they're so amazing,

how they have such a gorgeous array
for everyone and matching the shoes.

Having that as an example,

or even the company,

the wardrobe and the shoe department,

they're making sure the mesh of costumes
matches everybody's skin,

and it's not like the one mesh
that's supposed to just one size fit all.

The shoe, each shade
being specifically matched,

because we all know we're all different.

There's no person
who's exactly the same.

I feel like having institutions
like that being on the forefront

and showing that this is,
we are not stepping backwards now.

This is where we are, this is base,

and now we keep going up from there.

It's going to be so beautiful
in case things like that happen,

where people start taking a step back.

Yeah.

I know for me,

when I was given access to inclusive dancewear,

it was just this skin tone tights.

I was like hesitant at first,

because I didn't want to seem so different
or out of space in my environment.

How do you think the dancewear industries
can sort of promote

or just allow that option to have
those items that represent you?

I would say, I don't know, it's hard.

It's like a little bit of
chicken and egg, right?

The more you see it,

the more comfortable
than you feel being able to do it.

But until it's being seen,

I don't know, it's sort of that thing.

It's like, "Oh, OK,
if my friend's going to do it,

now I have a little bit more
self-confidence in doing it myself.

So it's sort of like
collective with friends,

but then also industry at large,

doing it so that you see it on stage.

Having that confidence of being like,

you're beautiful, and you should show you,

which I know is really hard,

and that's always just something
like throughout life.

We're constantly
battling with that, I think.

Yeah, what do you think, Aliyah?

Yeah, I think there's
a bit of responsibility

on dancewear stores as well

to select,

to make sure that they're bringing in
more inclusive dancewear

to their physical location,

so that you can see it
in front of you as well,

and know that you're welcome
in that space,

and you're seen in that environment.

I think there's some responsibility there
for the dancewear stores.

And then of course,

the dancewear companies as well,

the ones that are producing the product

to make sure that they're intentional
about each shade

that they choose
to move forward and develop.

I have a question actually
from Monroe and Jasmine.

So for you, if you're just in a studio,

and you have on skin tone,

how does that make you feel?

An answer?

I don't want to get emotional,

but it just makes me feel different,

because I feel like I've been alone.

I feel really welcome at my studio,

because they've done a great job
to help me feel inclusive.

Right.

But just sometimes it just
makes me feel like I'm alone,

and I'm different.

I have no one to share
the same aspect aspects with,

because everyone else is dressed the same,

and I'm just there with darker skin tights.

It just makes me feel different.

I've learned to love myself.

even if I'm a different skin tone.

I've learned we all dance the same.

OK, we don't all dance the same,

but we all dance in the studio.

We're all here for the same reason.

And just now I love it.

I love getting to wear
my skin tone tights.

My dance teacher loves
when I'm wearing them.

She's also let me wear on stage before.

Just having all this support
just really makes me more confident.

Right.

Yeah, I think when I started
wearing them just last year,

I was asked if I could,

and I sort of was like,

"No, I don't I don't
want to seem different."

But now, wearing them in class,

I feel like...

I just feel I am more
represented in my space.

I'm sorry.

I feel like I just am part
of my space more.

Sorry, it's hard to explain it.

But at first, it did make me feel like,

"Oh, this is different, I shouldn't."

"This is not what ballet dancer is."

I shouldn't be wearing this.

Now I feel like I've sort of been
like ballet dancers first.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

But stand out too.

I feel like I've got standing out,

especially like our skin tone
was a bad thing.

But it's a really good thing
we're different.

We don't have to be ashamed of it.

You know, we're all here to dance.

So we can just dance together.

And this is why it's so important
from top to bottom that support is there,

because for you both to feel comfortable,

like, "OK , yeah, my skin tone
is maybe different

than some of the other dancers here,

but that's not something
I should feel ashamed of,

or like, "I'm still very much
a part of this space."

That support has to come from all levels

for you to feel like,

yeah, you know what, let me see
if past those initial feelings,

like, "This is for me,
and I want to rock this."

And it sounds like
it's a beautiful option

that you both have

if that's what you feel like
makes you feel more comfortable.

And then your skin is probably glowing,

and your tights too.

I'm just thinking too like,

Even though there's kids younger than you

Now looking up to you
like you are leaders now.

And what you're doing
for people younger than you

is just so beautiful.

So yeah, I want to see,

I want to see videos;
I want to see dancing;

I want to see photos;
I want to see everything.

Thank you so much today
for this discussion.

I feel like for me just really
reinforced how important it is

to just feel confident in yourself
and to look at ballet

and see where are the barriers
and who is it not embracing.

Thank you so much.

And for anyone watching,

remember to check out
the Instagram "balletforward_canada"

if you want to learn more.

And I also want to say thank you,
especially to our panelists.

This discussion really makes me
excited for the future.

I'm excited to see what not only us
at Ballet Forward is going to do

to help make the dance world
more inclusive,

but everyone in the world watching.

And the Ballet Forward project
has been made possible

in part by the Government of Canada.

A thank you to all Ballet Forward
partners and supporters.

So much.

(Jasmine) Ya! (laughing)